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PBS recently brought together two doctors for a conversation about reducing firearm deaths without first demanding that Americans surrender their gun rights.
In a new episode of Horizons, host William Brangham spoke with Dr. Sandy McKay, a pediatrician and gun owner, and Dr. Joseph Sakran, a trauma surgeon and gunshot survivor. Both participate in the “Agree to Agree” campaign, which looks for areas where gun owners and non-gun owners might find some common ground.
Now, let’s be honest. PBS opened the program with plenty of familiar public-health framing, including the argument that America’s firearm death rate is primarily connected to the number of guns in the country. That alone will probably cause some gun owners to tune out.
But the specific ideas offered by the two doctors are worth putting in front of the 2A community.
Table of contents
Secure Storage Without Sacrificing Defense?
The doctors promoted keeping firearms locked, unloaded and separate from ammunition, particularly in homes with children or someone experiencing a mental-health crisis.
McKay acknowledged the obvious concern: A defensive firearm does little good if its owner cannot reach and load it quickly. She said she can retrieve and load her own firearm from a safe in under two seconds. She also encouraged layered home security involving locks, alarms and even dogs.
Most responsible gun owners already agree that firearms should be inaccessible to children and unauthorized users. The tougher question is whether one storage method fits every household.
Is a loaded handgun inside a rapid-access safe responsibly secured? Should ammunition always be stored separately? And where should personal responsibility end and government mandates begin?
Temporary Storage and Red-Flag Laws
The doctors also discussed voluntary storage programs that allow gun shops or other participating locations to temporarily hold firearms when someone in a household is in crisis.
That could offer families another option without immediately involving a court. Of course, gun owners would want strong assurances that voluntarily surrendering a firearm would not create legal complications when they tried to retrieve it.
The conversation also turned to extreme-risk protection orders, commonly called red-flag laws. Sakran argued that temporarily separating someone from a firearm during an acute crisis can create time for treatment and intervention.
That is where the common ground gets considerably shakier. Red-flag laws have long generated concerns about ex parte hearings, false accusations, insufficient due process and the difficulty of recovering seized firearms.
Should Gun Shops Join the Conversation?
McKay would also like firearm retailers to discuss storage options and suicide warning signs at the point of sale. She said some dealers already participate in voluntary storage networks and want to help protect their customers.
The doctors additionally promoted hospital and community-based intervention programs that connect shooting survivors with counseling, mentoring and other support intended to prevent retaliation and additional violence.
Some of these ideas may sound like ordinary responsible gun ownership. Others raise major constitutional and due-process questions.
So, what do you think? Should gun stores take a larger role in suicide prevention? Would you consider voluntary off-site storage during a family crisis? Is a rapid-access safe enough, or should defensive firearms always be unloaded? And can red-flag laws ever contain enough due-process protection to earn the trust of gun owners?
Sound off in the comments.
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is a seasoned outdoorsman, lifelong hunter, and the kind of guy who’d rather track whitetails than scroll social media. As an editor for GunsAmerica, he’s got a sharp eye for spotting both solid gear and bad gun laws. Whether he’s deep in the woods or deep in editorial deadlines, Larry brings a no-nonsense, tell-it-like-it-is approach to firearms, hunting, and the great American tradition of self-reliance. If there’s a hot debate on gun rights or the latest in hunting tech, you can bet Larry’s got an opinion—and it’s probably backed up with both facts and field experience.
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The whole premise of the “Children” being killed in this PBS program is wrong. The ages of children range from 0 – 19 years. Most of the “children” killed range from 15 – 19 and are gang and drug related. Younger than 15 deaths are negligible and rare. PBS is deceitfull, slanted and untrustworthy. No surprise there.
Guns should be allowed to be loaded when stored in a rapid access safe or box. Separating the ammunition from the firearm in a situation that involves personal protection does not make sense. Time is everything. I’m glad the one doctor is so practiced they can retrieve and load their firearm in “2 seconds” from separately stored items but frankly I don’t believe this person. And most of us do not spend lots of time to practice this sort of response and I question their response timing when these items are separated. Even though legally the state I currently live in forbids storing a loaded gun in a safe or rapid response container, I don’t believe any jury will convict a person for storing a loaded gun if self defense was on the line and demonstrated in an associated court case. And if that court outcome favored the defendant I believe there would now be a legal precedent to tear down laws like this that make no sense.
“Both participate in the “Agree to Agree” campaign, which looks for areas where gun owners and non-gun owners might find some common ground.” —— That’s your first mistake, Larry, because there is none. We ‘compromised’ in ’68, then Reagan compromised us in ’86. No more! Besides, don’t you find it peculiar that compromising always ends up meaning the lefties get what they want?
“Should ammunition always be stored separately?” —— Stupid question. What the f**k good is an unloaded gun? When you need a gun, you need a GUN, not a paperweight.
“And where should personal responsibility end and government mandates begin?” —— How people store their property is their own d*mned business. If you have guns *and* kids, do what a parent is supposed to do – TEACH THEM.
“Red-flag laws” —— The only ‘red flag’ we need is on the range when it goes hot. These are just another way for government to take more of your money away from you (think impound).
“Should gun stores take a larger role in suicide prevention?” —— Should car dealers offer high colonics? Yeah, that makes about as much sense. A gun store’s raison d’etre is to SELL GUNS AND AMMUNITION. That’s why they’re called gun stores, not ‘Ballistic Crisis Management Centers’.
I only saw this because I subscribe to your email. This is a good conversation. I agree that gun owners need to take 100% responsibility of who can access their firearms. I do. I have one issue/question about gun stores that will store guns temporarily. Let’s say I go on vacation, and I want to store my guns outside of the home to avoid theft while I’m away. If I use a gun store to hold them, how does that look? What proof do I have that I stored them because I’d be away for an extended period, and not that I stored them for a mental health crisis in my family? This needs to be addressed before storage in a gun store is a good option.
Well, I’m assuming there would be some legal document regarding the temporary transfer and storage, with a specified reason, end-date, etc. It would probably have to be “notarized” or verified in some way. The problem for the gun store owner is this: does he/she want to accept the liability for storage? Pay the extra theft/damage insurance? Most likely, the gun owner would have to pick up the tab for that service, and rightly so
I do not believe that if one keeps a firearm secured and the magazine or rounds secured in a different place, that one could access and load the weapon in less than two seconds. In some cases red flag laws are needed. For example, there’s a federal law that states that if a background check for a firearm purchase does not come back in the allotted time, that the FFL can make the determination as to whether the sale should proceed. 22 states have red flag laws that prohibit this. I believe that when someone is convicted of a crime that precludes that person from owning/purchasing a firearm, upon conviction, a judge should immediately issue a search warrant to law-enforcement for search and confiscation of firearms in the convicted persons home, car, or storage facilities. I believe that each firearm sale must include proof of, or the inclusion of a lockbox for the weapon AND proof of firearm safety training. I believe that the US sentencing laws must mandate incarceration for anyone who commits a crime, and upon commission of the crime, either uses or brandishes a weapon. Regarding firearms and mental health issues, in addition to evaluation by 3 mental health experts, one of which would be appointed by the court. In addition I believe a jury of peers should be used to make the determination as whether that person can own/purchase a firearm. Once someone isfound mentally incompetent, a judge should issue a search warrant for law-enforcement to search and confiscate any weapons in the person‘s home, car, or storage facility. Please remember that the person who committed the shooting at Virginia Tech had been previously found mentally incompetent by a court. I believe that when a shooting occurs by a minor, and the minor obtained a weapon in the home of or with the help of a parent/guardian, that parent/Guardian should be held as a co-conspirator.
It’s not about saving lives. Never has been. Doctors have killed more people than all of the murders combined and no reporters are reporting that. Under 500 people a year sucome to accidental discharge, while 20,000 are murdered annually, 15,000 by firearms. Looks like the risk of being murdered way out weighs being accidentally shot.
In Colorado, Red Flag Laws and the Safe Storage Law have done nothing to reduce criminal shootings or gun homicides. For the last four years gun suicides have climbed to record-high numbers. If Red Flag Laws worked, we would’ve seen the positive results by now. If Colorado had spent money on mental health therapy instead of dumping millions of $$ into gun control, lives would’ve been saved. But gun control is not about saving lives or stopping criminals, but about disarming the law-abiding gun owner.
Firearm deaths vs. murders by known criminals?
quote——————–So, what do you think? Should gun stores take a larger role in suicide prevention? Would you consider voluntary off-site storage during a family crisis? Is a rapid-access safe enough, or should defensive firearms always be unloaded? And can red-flag laws ever contain enough due-process protection to earn the trust of gun owners?———–quote
Gun dealers would be reluctant to crush a sale by making people think about the responsibility that goes with owning a firearm. Only a Federal mandate with printed material required to be handed out would work.
The Far Right nut cases who are in need of mental health because of full blown paranoia would have to be forced by a Federal Law with teeth in it and server penalties to obey a safe storage law. The real facts are that you can access a gun in a safe in only 2 seconds. If you are under immediate threat then the only other option without endangering children or unstable adults would be to carry a loaded firearm on your person and then put it in a safe when you sleep.
Red Flag laws do indeed save lives but there can never be a foolproof law that would prevent a spouse from lying about a threat. To not have such a law often results in a murder but in the case of a false accusation the ability to get back your firearms should not be a complicated process. The sane part of the argument lies with having Red Flag Laws.
Komisar dacian, many of the things you said might have trigger some of the red flag laws.
:^I
How to propose due process when someone calls for a red flag? Actual due process that does not violate the principle you are innocent until proven guilty.
the whole discussion sounds as if they are giving criminals the advantage, odd how criminals never enter these discussions……