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Ruger Gunsite Scout
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Ruger first announced its Gunsite Scout rifle at SHOT Show in 2011. We here at Guns America did a review of it back when it first came out. You can find that here. Since then Ruger has come out with a couple of different versions. This is the newest one, and we got to put it through its paces before it hit the streets, just in time for todayās launch. As you will see below, I am impressed.
This Gunsite, one promoted in some of the early press materials we received, has a matte stainless barrel. Ours was a deep black alloy steel.
The Scout Rifle
So what is a āscout rifleā? The founder of the Gunsite Training Center, Jeff Cooper, came up with what he felt was one rifle that could be used in any situation. A jack of all trades rifle if you will. There isnāt room here to go into all of the details that Cooper advocated but I want to hit the high points.
- Unloaded weight of between 6.5 and 7.5 lbs, with accessories (which makes it easy to haul around)
- Overall length of 39 inches or less (which makes it nimble and unobtrusive)
- Ghost Ring Sights and ability to mount a forward mounted low power optic, like scout scope (so you hit what youāre shooting at)
- Chambered in .308 Winchester (which means you will be more likely to kill what youāre shooting at, and can find ammo easily)
- It should have a sling attachment (and maybe a sling, too)
- It needs to shoot at least 2 MOA at 200 yards (which is roughly a 4ā³ circle). You should shoot that well, too.
The Ruger
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Here are the specs on the review Gunsite Scout from Ruger:
- 308 Win
- Black Composite Stock with aluminum bedding block and pillar
- 16.1ā³ free floated Barrel (cold hammer forged)
- Weight 6.25lbs
- Twist 1:10 right hand
- 10 round capacity with detachable box magazine
- Ghost ring rear and post front sights
- Forward mounted picatinny rail
- Adjustable length of pull from 12.75-14.25
- Threaded barrel with muzzle break and 5 /8- 24 threads
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The stainless accents on the black gun are a nice aesthetic touch. And the bolt is easy to operate from the shoulder.
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The pebbled texture on the forend is also found on the grip.
How is this new one different?
I was at the range with the GunsAmerica editor while I was working on this review. He was telling me about his first experience with one of the early Ruger Gunsite Scouts (Edās note: not the one reviewed in the link above). When Ruger first released them, they hadnāt free floated the barrels. He said his review gun looked good, but the long range accuracy was more like minute-of-barn. Ruger quickly fixed this and all of the Gunsites have had a free floated barrel since and the accuracy has vastly improved. This one was no exception, as you will see.
The original version from Ruger uses a laminated stock that puts the empty weight of the rifle at 7 pounds. That is without a scope or other accessories, which will push the overall weight close to (or over) the upper limit that Cooper called for. This version of the Scout has a lightweight composite stock that brings the weight down to 6.25 lbs empty. 3/4 of a pound might not seem like much, but if you are carrying a rifle all day, it quickly starts to feel like more. The laminated stock version always felt a little too heavy to me, especially with a scope. This one feels just right for that carry-all-day type of rifle that a scout rifle should be.
With the Leupold FX-II Scout Scope, the Gunsite realizes more of its true purpose.
Fit, finish and looks
This is a good looking rifle. It is not fancyāfar from it. That is the point here. It is not supposed to be fancy, shiny or pretty. This is a working gun, a gun that is at home behind the seat of your pickup, or slung over your shoulder on a hike in the woods. The stock is well designed and fits well in your hands.The texture on the polymer stock is heavy where needed, with a pebbly texture.
The action and barrel are matte black with the coating applied uniformly and without any blemishes I could find. The bolt is stainless. The magazine rocks into place, like an AK, with a reassuring snap. There is a bit of wiggle in the seated mag and I am totally fine with that. For a utilitarian rifle that will see rough and dirty field use, I want some play in the mag well. Drop a mag in the dirt and muck during a reload? With a bit of play where the mag seats, you have a better chance of everything still working.
The mag is rock-solid and built of pressed steel.
Rings and Mags
Ruger ships this rifle with their proprietary scope rings. These fit into milled slots on the receiver. You would have to remove the rear sight to use the rear one on the Gunsite Scout. I didnāt use the Ruger rings. On a scout style rifle, I want the iron sights as a backup to the optic. Ideally, I want see through rings so I can use the irons quickly if need be. So that is what I went with. I donāt even recall the brand these are, but they are sturdy and allow the use of the irons without raising the scope to an unusable level.
Ruger didnāt use a propriety magazine for this rifle. I know fans of the Mini-14 will be jealous. Ruger went with an Accurate-Mag 10 round box magazine. They also ship these with 3 or 5 round mags to areas that donāt allow the 10 rounders. These are well built, sturdy steel magazines. Ruger ships the Gunsite with one magazine. They also offer a polymer mag. I have not seen one, much less used one so cannot speak for how well they function.
The Mauser style action has proven to be one of the most reliable around.
Function
The Gunsite Scouts are based on the Ruger M77 bolt actions which are, in turn, based on the old Mauser M98. It has a controlled feed that I would want on any bolt action that could ever be used in a life or death situation. The blade style extractor is strong and functioned flawlessly. It worked so well that policing brass at the range was a bit of a pain. We were sending rounds a good 5-6 feet away from the bench when working the bolt at the bench. If we pulled the bolt back gently the spent case would only kick up, and we could put them back in the box where they belong.
We had zero problems with this gun. That is one of the great things about a well made bolt action. There is so much less to go wrong that with an auto-loader. This is one of the reasons they are still around and remain relevant.
Accuracy
After David told me about the troubles he had with the first version of this rifle, I was a bit skeptical on how the Gunsite Scout would perform on paper. It has a 16ā barrel! That is not a length that we typically associate with long range accuracy. But this short guy will flat out shoot. All of the accuracy groupings we did were with Hornady TAP 155 grain. We shot several grain weights, and brands, but the 155s worked well, so we stuck with those. The trigger on this rifle is solid, too, breaking below 5 pounds.
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Accuracy at 50 yards with the iron sights. Not too shabby. Thatās five shots in three holes.
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Same distance with a different shooter. Five shots. Shooting slightly right, but thatās adjustable.
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On the first trip to the range, I forgot to grab my Scout Scope from the safe. Whoops. But have no fear! This made us shoot with the supplied iron sights that I would have probably glossed over a bit in this review. We sighted the iron in at 50 yards before moving on to 100. Now these are ghost ring sights. The rear āholeā is wide and the front blade is thick. This is in line with the quick handling and fast target acquisition that is one of the main attributes of a scout style rifle. But they are not too wide or thick. The gun is still capable of some precision work. Once we got it dialed in, it was shooting about 2 inches right at 50 yards, we were able to shoot some very nice groups. 5 rounds touching at 50 yards and less than an inch at 100. I was genuinely surprised. This is well within the 2 MOA requirement that Cooper set forth. It also helped my confidence in irons that I have neglected of late.
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100 yards, five shots, from the shoulder. This was done with the irons.
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This is a 100 yard target with the Leupold Scout Scope on. It is a 2.5x power only.
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The next trip I remembered my Scout Scope. It is a Leupold FX-II 2.5Ć28 Scout scope. Once again, the low powered optic is part of the scout rifle concept. It gives you a wide view for acquiring your target fast. This is not meant to be a long range set up. But it did surprisingly well out to 300 yards.
Once we had it sighted in, we took it out to 100. The MOA didnāt change from what we were getting with the ghost rings. At 100 yards the groups were under an inch, but opened up a bit more at 300. I should mention that it was really ugly the day we went to shoot. Youāll see it in the photos below. We had to turn this gun around fast for this review, so we didnāt have the luxury of waiting for a nice day. The grey cloud cover had blown in fast, and it felt like it would snow. On the wide open range in the Arkansas River flood plain, the wind was whipping in gusts that were approaching 20-25 MPH. Neither of us had brought gloves and our fingers were getting stiff. We were rocking the Gunsite Scout and not allowing the barrel to cool. Yet we were still dropping rounds on target at 300. The target below (right) is with that 2.5x scope! What could this gun do without the wind and with a 20x scope?
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Three shots from 100 yards. The Gunsite Scout keeps hammering them home.
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300 yards? The top group is one shooter. The bottom, another. This is with the Leupold Scout Scope and bucking wind. While this target doesnāt demonstrate a MOA rifle at 300 yards, I have no doubt that the rifle is capable.
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The drop was also a bit more that I am used to from a .308 at 300. Instead of the usual 13-14 inches or so with the grain weight we were using, the drop was closer to 18-19 inches. That is all from the short barrel, I am sure. We also did some chronograph work to see how much it was losing. See the pictures and captions below for the details. All of the ammo came in around the 2,500 FPS mark, give or take. With a bit of tinkering with some hand loads, I feel that the potential is there to make this a sub MOA rifle. But it doesnāt need to be to do the jobs it is intended for.
I didnāt just shoot this from the bench either. Granted the group size got a bit bigger when shooting standing. Still, the Ruger preformed great. This rifle feels good. It shoulders quickly and the sights and scope do let you get on target fast. Recoil is relatively mild for a .308 as well. After firing 100 plus rounds in an hour, I could have easily kept on shooting another 100 without being fatigued.
The look is cohesive and all business. With the stainless barrel, it will look even better.
One Rifle
The one rifle for everything is, to me at least, the biggest selling point for any rifle that uses Cooperās idea. This rifle is more than capable of taking game out to 300 yards. It is also incredibly handy. The short barrel and overall length make it ideal for hunting in brushy areas. The bolt action design is strong and should continue to function in conditions that most semi autos would have problems.
I also think that the composite stock makes this rifle better than the wooden model. That is a big statement for me. I am a wood guy. A polished walnut type of wood guy. But I donāt want a fancy stock on a gun like this. Granted the laminated stock doesnāt look like walnut, and is probably a bit stronger than the composite one. But in my opinion the composite is worth the weight savings for a rifle that needs to be light.
This would make a great shit-hits-the-fan rifle. It is short enough for close quarters work. Although, the big .308 is way too much to use for home defense (when worried about rounds passing through walls), this is a gun that would be perfect behind the seat of your truck. It would make a great bug-out rifle, and when you get to your hidey-hole it would be great for security and patrol. It will put meat on the table, too. As we were driving home from the range and talking about the Ruger Gunsite Scout, I think I came up with one statement that is telling of how impressed I am with this gun as the āone rifleā solution. āMan, this rifle is good enough to be buried in a sealed pvc tube at my cabin,ā I said, feeling a bit philosophical. āYou know, just in case all hell breaks loose and me and the family need to hole up for a bit.ā It is the type of gun that almost makes you wish you had the chance to really test it out.
And it is out today. The MSRP on the Gunsite with the stainless barrel, at least at the time of this entry, is $1,099. The alloy steel barreled version that we had in is $1,039. You can pay a hell of a lot more for a rifle that wonāt do half what this gun does, or shoot half as accurately.
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The safety is a three position switch that is clearly labeled.
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The butt pad has spacers that will allow for increased length of pull.
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We had to use the see-through rings with the irons to get the scope on paper, as we hadnāt returned it to its mechanical zero. Worked great. Just line up the irons then move the cross-hairs.
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The front sight is robust. The flash-hider covers a threaded barrel.
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Without the scope on top, it looks kind of naked.
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How is it that a rifle this short will shoot one MOA at 300 yards?
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Thereās enough rail up front to adjust for eye relief.
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The scope is on the 100 yard target. The brown board against the berm is 300. No you can see a bit more clearly how absurd this exercise was. Shooting that tiny black dot with a 2x scope, holding over at an imaginary point on the berm, and dropping rounds in the black. Accurately.
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The same two targets seen with the naked eye of the camera.
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The short length of the Gunsite Scout makes it an ideal brush gun, and if we can hold onto it long enough, weāll get it in the woods. This would make an ideal hog rifle.
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Detail of the forward rail.
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Branding is subtle, which is always a plus in my book.
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To load the mags, push one round down and slide the next in. It takes two hands and isnāt graceful, but it works.
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The benefit is that the loaded rounds arenāt popping free until the bolt pushes them out.
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The base plate has the Ruger emblem.
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The mags are clearly marked with the Ruger emblem and the caliber.
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Steel cased .308? No problem.
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The TAP performed the best, so we stuck with it for testing accuracy.
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The 168 grain Hornady did well, too, but the heavier rounds slowed down a bit.
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Spacers for increased LOP.
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This muzzle device holds down rise and spits out one hell of a cloud of smoke.
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the Ruger rings that replace the rear sightāmeant for use with more traditional scopes.
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Will this shoot 7.62 X 51 ? Or just .308 win
Does this winged site fit the new RUGER American Predator in 308 with a O.D. of .760 ? And if it does where can I buy one from. I am a Gunsmithing student and need one for my project rifle. I am turning a Ruger American Predator into a Scout rifle.
Have had the laminated stock version now for about 5 years. Have taken many deer with this fine rifle at ranges of 100 out to 265. Lost count of the hogs. Have carried this rifle all day beating heavy brush and crossing wetlands. Rock solid fast on the target, fast smooth bolt. Cooper knew what he was wanting in a scout rifle and Rugger has a winner here. I have many fine rifles and I love them all, but when Iām heading into coyote and hog country this is my go to. In fact it my wifeās go to for just about everything from mule deer on down to racoon. Its a dream to handle in ground blinds (short and fast). Not overpriced in my opinion. Take it or leave it.
What can I say? Dr. Todd\ās work is life changing. He is the real deal. manifest spell cast @ gmail. com
Question?, Are you able to put Quick-Sites for your scope on the Scout?
If you are a fan of Ruger Rifles, you will probably like this one. If you are not a fan, it probably wonāt convert you into one. Itās ironic how this rifle is supposed to be a āone rifle fits allā platform yet itās appeal is based on such a narrow situational base. As a hunting rifle, this rifle has some issues. Additionally, $1100.00 (Iāve seen it listed for as much as $1400.00 in the shops and online, is a lot of cash for a rifle with a plastic stock on itā¦There is nothing that this rifle does that a Savage Axis, or one of itās lower priced counterparts, canāt do. You can literally buy 3 Axis rifles or 2 Model 11ās for the price of one of these. But that has always been Rugerās problem. They simply have never been able to figure out how to keep their rifleās accurate and affordable, which is interesting considering so many of their parts are manufactured overseasā¦
savs & rems are junk compared to Ruger m77 in any configuration
That is a matter of opinion. If something does not appeal to me I just dont say they are ājunkā. Savage or Remington are not junk period. I own all three including a left handed Gun Site Scout and all of them are nice rifles, and Savages accuracy is hard to beat. dont just take my word for it just read some gun mags especially when they have the test shoot offs and you will see Savage has been at the top for accuracy for the last decade at least.
I have always liked Coopers idea of the Scout Rifle. Fwd myc scope on a rail, great. 16ā³ barrel with suppressor/brake, great. Laminated or carbon fiber stock is a great idea, but I would buy it even with a wood stock, floated barrel, adjustable or adjusted trigger, and 10-20 round mag.
I would prefer a larger than .308 cal, like the .358 Win or one of the 9.3 variations. Even a .338-08 with premium modern bullets. I do like the adjustable stock and the spare loaded mag in the stock, and the Ching sling or a reliable speed sling.
I purchased a Ruger Mod 77 MKII, Stainless in a wood stock w/16ā³ barrel, barrel sights, that was a limited run in 7-08. It really is a handy rifle, accurate with itās Leupold 2-7x compact VXII. Topped it lff with Brownellās Latigo speed sling.
This little short rifle would be greater in a switch barrel in both .358 Win and 7-08, or any other small accurate .308 based ctg.
I have not weighed my little ruger loaded w/scope and sling, but it āfeels lightā to me.
My other go to rifles are a Remington Mod 8, 35 remington, Savage 99 .358 Win, both with Marble/Lyman tang sights of the ghost ring variety, and my .338-06 AI 40 Husqvarna Ultra light Small ring. My next purchase will probably be in the 45-70 class 1895 Marlin SS guise Gun, just cause I canā¦..
Iāve sure learn a lot of doās and donāt from reading what other people had to say but I too brought a ruger scout rifle and knocking on wood I like mind, and yeah there was some times I thought the rifle was missing up and it just so happen it was me, so I like mine and if I had it to do over again it would be the same rifle ā¦ā¦mickey
i recently purshed a ruger gunsite mdl in 308 stainless and composite stock on the first trip hunting i found the magazine very difficult to load and the floor plate kept comeing loose after a few shots / i called the service rep at ruger and asked about a new floor plate / much to my surprize i recived a new plastic mag / the new mag is easy to load and feeds great / i dont remember the reps name but i would like to thank her and ruger for the quick service on fixing the problem/ as far as the steel mags go i wont buy anymore / i lightened the spring and clamped the last one inch of the floor plate to tighten it , it works ok with dummy rounds but we will see if it works under recoil, as far as accuracy goes with a 16in bbl it gives under 1/2 in at 100 yards with the right load/ it is a great hunting rifle
Iāve had my GSR for close to 3 years and enjoy it thoroughly. I use it for target shooting and mounted the scope further back. Now there is a full length rail available which I strongly recommend. I added a compensator which had a limited effect in terms of recoil. The one thing I wasnāt crazy about is the trigger. Very stiff ! I just replaced it with aTimney 1100 and am hoping to get to the range soon. I wouldnāt mind a longer barrel but it is very consistent out to 300 Yds. Overall very pleased.
In the review the author said laminate is probably stronger than composite. I know that wood can sell in certain weather conditions and possibly affect accuracy,is this true with laminate ? and also have heard composite,when hot can get āsoftā and affect accuracy so is any of this true. I am purchasing the ruger scout and really need to know which would be the better choice in stocks. Can someone please answer this for me? Thank you
Laminate stocks (essentially epoxy pressed plywood) is supposed to be weatherproof. Never heard of swelling, def not from a Ruger.
I plan to use mine with a suppressor, so I opted for the lighter, shorter polymer stock. You shouldnāt have problems with either.
16ā³ barrel too short for the .308? Iāve got several bolt action pistols that group less than 1 MOA with 15ā³ barrels. A shorter barrel with the same contour as a longer barrel tends to be stiffer than the longer barrel. Which means less barrel whip and more consistant accuracy. Now the shorter barrel also means less sight radius, but using even a low powered scope takes that off of the table. The lower velocity just means that youāll need to work up different sight settings. A 16ā³ .308 is still much more powerfull than a .300 BLK or 7.62Ć39.
Now that Ruger is making LH versions of the Gunsite Scout rifle, itās on my soon to buy list. Thanks for a great review.
I have read all the comments regarding the .308/7.62 cartridge and have a single comment. My tool of trade is a Browning BLR with a 20ā² barrel. I have been carrying it since the late 70ās. The guy spoke of using a .45-70. lever action as well as several different bolt actions and autoes. I donāt go to war but I do hunt and my criteria is one shot one kill!!! I currently find my best chance of making the shot is inside of 200 yards. At this distance a round from my Browning can be placed in the animals ear, instant kill!!! I have shot an elk at 300 yards but I like the head shots best because you donāt waste meat. As far as all of the war mongers out there I sure my criteria can be adapted to killing humans. Merry Christmas!!!
Hey Sam you werenāt shooting at the OFGC were you? Looks familiar but I did not see you mention the name of the range?
I like the Ruger Gunsite Scout rifles, but there are two things that I really, Really, REALLY wish were available for them. The first, and most important I think, is a folding rear sight. I wouldnāt want to remove the sight from the rifle when using a forward mounted āscoutā scope, but having it up in the way of the scope just bugs me, a lot! A folding rear sight would be a very nice upgrade.
Item #2 isnāt really part of the rifle. Itās the scope. I have one of Leupoldās excellent 1.5-5x33mm VX-R scout scopes on my custom scout rifle, and, as much as I like it, it just needs more magnification at the top end. A 2-7Ć33, with an illuminated reticle (which is absolutely mandatory as far as Iām concerned), would be ideal. Leupoldās 2.5-8x handgun scope would make a nice platform to base the new scout scope on as well. Either way it just needs more power at the top end while keeping the bottom end with as little magnification as possible.
Well how about that big pile of BS. Before I bought my original Ruger Gunsite, I read all of the wonderful reviews and watch a horde of You Tube videos telling me how wonderful and revolutionary this new rifle is. Then I bought it and was amazed at the recoil and lack of accuracy, though I like the convenience of the smaller size. Now I find out that the rifle is now a piece of crap with a NON FLOATED BARREL, a better, lighter stock and no sightsā¦.How convenient? My first thought is that Ruger should offer to fix free of charge and upgrade all of the inferior 1st generation gunsite rifles, since they are obviously not what they originally claim and as this article impliesā¦..garbage. The second thought is now how can I believe that the new gunsite is as great as he says it is? After all, they all said the first gunsite was great too. MY CONFIDENCE IN RUGER IS TOTALLY SHAKEN AND I AM VERY DISAPPOINTED.
Totally understand your position and comments. I was enchanted with this gun when it came out, and was looking to buy one. Then my better sense caught up to my desires. Wait for a while and see what the reviews say. I remember many years ago buying a mini-30. It was a fun piece to shoot, but had its flaws. With each new generations, improvements were made.
Iāve been in the manufacturing industry for 25+ years ā if the management allows, the engineers will design the perfect weapon. The problem is, it will take 10 years the company will go broke. The unfortunate āreal worldā is any product gets to a certain point, then its released to the public, often with know possible issues. Itās a matter of economics.
Companies are in business to make money, with that comes risks.
DONāT FORGET THE BEST RIFLE AND CALIBER AND BARREL COMBINATION IS THE ONE YOU LIKE TO SHOOT!!!!!!!BOTTOM LINE: HAVE FUN SHOOTINGā¦.PUSH YOUR SKILLS TO THE LIMIT. HAVE A GREAT
TIME DOING IT. THE REWARD: GAIN MORE EXPERIENCE AND HAVE AN OPEN MIND THAT WE ALL HAVE
LIKES AND DISLIKES. EACH OF US HAS A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE. HEY, I REALLY LOVE
SPAGHETTI AND MEATBALLS BUT A GREAT HOTDOG WITH MUSTARD AND RELISH FILLS THAT EMPTY
SPOT TOO. LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC AND LET FREEDOM RING. VICTOR MAZZONE
CUSTOMER RESPONCE
I love Ruger products, theyāre great.
I hate bolt action, itās old and lame as hell.
RESPONSEā¦.lol
Hmm ā bolt action is old and lame as hell??? That comment makes me think about my AR-15 (M4), AR-10A (Armalite), M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, Mini-30, and Mini-14. Okays so the M1ās are old as hell ā whats the common point?? They all fail to cycle 100% of the time.
Now I look at my āold as hellā bolt action, including some crumby old Mosinās ā whatās the common point? They never fail to cycle.
I will keep my semi-autoās, but the bolt action always seem to work
Sorry Daryl, not trying to offend, itās just my opinion I wanted to get across to Ruger.
Old is cool, and nostalgic shooting is also fun.
I still prefer pump or lever for reliability.
I just think designing new firearms with bolt action just seems real backwards to me.
All those old firearms you just named are very cool, and real nice to play with.
And I can see why you would enjoy them.
Lever action or Bolt action,,,,, the only way to go.
The best shooting rifle I ever owned was a German K-98 8mm, wood stock, iron sights and of course the Mauser bolt action.
I think the author got lost in the weeds before he got this Ruger to review. Forgets scope, next time forgets gloves but remembers scope. Forgets basic MOA computation formula. How professional is that? Rifle is worthy of being used in a SHTF situation? Get real, this thing would be his first choice in a rifle for that? Who is he kidding? Worthy of being buried in PVC pipe ājust in caseā??? He should have did that instead of wasting his gas going to the range twice. Wobbly magazine mounting a good thing? Since when? Really the entire tone of this review is just so mediocre that it does a good job of smoking over the rifles biggest design faults-the biggest one being its scope mount, the other its Cheap Charlie iron sights. Chairman Jeff is long gone, he isnāt here for todays modern optics on qd mounts that can also co witness with iron sights. For its MSRP you would think that they could do better. If this is Rugers best attempt at a ādo it allā hunting -quasi tacticool rifle they should start over with a different product manager and a clean sheet of paper.
Dave, I donāt believe you would be happy if we buttered your bread on both sides.
Threaded barrel with muzzle break and 5 /8- 24 threads.
Muzzle break? Seriously? Might as well explain how many bullets the clip holds.
I often read these reviews but rarely comment. I just couldnāt help myself with all of the desk jockeyās hammering of the reviewer. If you think you can do a better job with the technical aspects and the writing, start your own blog or get hired to write the reviews and we will sit back and take pot shots at you.
As for the weapon itself, first look at what it was designed for, before making off the wall comments. Comparing this to an AR-15 or blackout?? Check the ballistics of the 308 Win then please let me know how they compare. Now take your AR platform roll it in the mud, run several hundred rounds through it without cleaning it and lets see how it does. Bolt action equals simplicity.
I own many long guns including AR platforms (including 308 win), semi-auto, and bolt action. Most of what I own are battle type (not hunting), and I can tell you without a doubt the bolt actions always work. Sure you can find a āsweet spotā ammo that your piece eats up, but there are 10x more that make it choke and spit FTFās.
Now lets get back to the Ruger Gunsite ā its is NOT a do everything weapon, because that does not exist. It was designed as a compact reliable, multi-use, scout rifle. It wasnāt designed to be semi-auto, accurate beyond 200 yards, take down grizzlys, or a host of other parameters that other rifles are capable of. The debate of the best SHTF weapon will never be answered, but this rifle should not be discounted. Itās light, capable, simple (few moving parts), great knock down power, and an easy caliber to get ammo for.
There has been some whining about price and magazine costs. Is it too high? Must not be, as Ruger is selling them, and people are buying them. Iāve seen tons for $650 to $750 range (used to new). Proprietary magazine is a problem?? Why? Too expensive?? My guess is those that complain about mag prices, probably spent plenty of $$ in areas that I think is ridicules. If you canāt afford the gun and extra magazines ā its pretty simple ā donāt buy it.
I currently own a mini-30 (have owned mini-14 and other mini-30ās) ā yes the magazines arenāt $5 like M4 or AKās, but so what. I have about 20 different ones, ranging from 5 round to 30, and all were at least $20 ā do I care?? No ā as long as they function and last for a while. Face it, if you are going to actually shoot the piece, the ammo costs will far out weigh the mags.
Complaints against Ruger ā really? Give me any cell phone provider, airlines, or internet provider and you can find people on both sides of the fences ā hot & cold, night & day. Sometime ago my father (retired USAF) sent in his MK II that flat wore out after countless rounds (thousands) ā they completely refurbished the gun and sent it back at no charge.
Personally I think itās a cool rifle and its on my list to get. Not on the top, but on the list. I look at every gun (long or pistol) and try to asses them for what they are designed for, and not what they are not designed for.
I own a Ruger Gunsite and I love it. I own numerous types of weapons and that gunsite is a blast to shoot! And accurate wow I couldnāt believe it right out of the box. Itās light, versatile and reliable. Some people just donāt have enough experience shooting and with numerous different types of firearms to make comments. Your comment made great sense and made some good points. Some people donāt know ballistics and have watched and played to many games to comment about anything seriously.
One thing I found, that no matter what you are reviewing, the comments are soup to nuts. I recall reviewing mountain bikes tires, the reviews were consistent except one nut ā he stated the tires wore out in 11 miles š
Now factor in human error during manufacturing; there are legitimate problems with individual pieces. Thatās why there are warrantyās.
One of the best arguments that will never be answered ā whats the better caliber/platform ā AR-15 vs AK??? To me there is two answers:
1) Have both in your arsenal
2) Get an AR-10 platform and blow both of them away
You mentioned in the article āIt needs to shoot at least 2 MOA at 200 yards (which is roughly a 2ā³ circle).ā I believe that 1 MOA at 200 yards would be roughly a 2ā³ circle. 2 MOA at 200 yards would be more like a 4ā³ circle.
Probably just a typo.
Great article by the way. Love that rifle.
TO Rod:
Rod December 17, 2014, 2:57 am
Here is One More gun I wonāt BUY because of āTo Short of Barrel ! For a 308, the Min. barrel should be NO Shorter then 18 inch.
Tell that fairy tale to the two gentlemen who won the 10th annual sniper competition shooting LaRue OBRs ā one with a 16ā³ barrel and one with an 18ā³.
The winning money shots were at 1,000 yards and both shooters made the shot.
No bad for a ātoo short 16ā³ .308ā.
Whenever the Cooper Scout concept comes up, there are always those who will say that it is an outdated concept due to the availability of todayās modern technology and ātacti-coolā gadgets. Theyāll state the uselessness of a 2x scope versus a 4-12x and of a bolt action versus a semi auto. And the reasons go on and on.
In defense of the Cooper Scout concept I will say this; there are old, old timers (most of whom are dying off now) who would tell you about a time when a 6x scope on a hunting rifle was considered unnecessarily high magnification. They would call anything above 10x an astronomers instrument.
Go back to the days of WWII and the typical magnification on an ā03 was 2.5x to 4x, and it worked for them. But they were certainly a much more hard boiled breed back then, being less dependent upon technology and fancy gadgets and gizmos.
When I was a teen in the early 80s, Iād see these old guys plunking man sized steel targets, at 500 to 700 yards, all day, using old surplus Mausers, ā03s, Garands, and P17s with iron sights. Granted they werenāt āplacingā consistent head shots. But what they were doing was the equivalent of blowing off a foot or a chunk of hip or shoulder. Now thatās PRACTICAL combat accuracy.
I donāt know about you, but out in the field, I donāt think Iād be doing too well missing a big toe courtesy of a 30-06 from even a mile out. Iād be willing to bet that if some of these old guys were still alive and still had the shoulders for it, using modern technology, they would hands down and with little effort, out shoot and humble todayās best.
More over, Iād bet that the old timer (provided that his eyes were still good) would have no problem, even with a mere 2x magnification, making clean kills on medium (practical for survival) sized game within 200 yards. And certainly, heād have no problem putting down a two legged target (humanely or not) well beyond that range. Letās face it, if one does not have a precision tuned hunting rifle, the simple adaptation for that is to improve upon ones tracking and stalking skills. The key concept being ADAPTATION.
If one does enough reading on the Cooper concept, they will find that this concept was more or less the āLast rifle you might ever haveā under the worst circumstances concept. That is to say, no support, no logistics, no spare parts, ammo in short supply, etc, etc. Itās all about adaptability. Adaptability, in the long run, will always win out over specialization.
Letās face it, for the military scout, the number one objective is exactly that; scouting, gathering intelligence; not engaging If youāve been compromised, youāve failed, period. And at that point, especially when I know that help isnāt coming any time soon, I would rather be running and evading with a 36ā³, 6.5 pound rifle than with a 42ā³, 12.5 pound lightning rod.
Depending upon the purpose and under the circumstances, whether it be apocalyptic survival, hunkered down in concealment for long periods while evading larger numbers, or being full speed on the run for your life, and any number of other circumstances; in the hands of a skilled and ADAPTIVE user, the āCooper Scoutā (not necessarily Rugerās) is a concept rifle that can be ADAPTED to most PRACTICAL and PLAUSIBLE situations if it was the one and only rifle that the shooter had so long as the shooter could adapt to it. Pair that with a reliable pistol and knife for close encounters, and you could certainly be a whole lot worse off.
Well said, but misses a critical piece of the puzzle. You have to see the target before you can shoot it. Young eyes may be better than mine at seeing ātargetsā (deer, vermin, enemy combatants, zombies etc.) in cover, but even young eyes can benefit by moving the scope back and increasing magnification just a bit. That was the point of my blog post here: http://cliffy109.blogspot.com/2014/12/on-scout-rifles-and-scout-scopes.html
Overall though, I agree with you. The GP rifle is not a specialized instrument. It may not handle any one task better than anything else. It will handle most tasks better than any single other gun. I just think a low power variable completes the package better than the Scout Scope.
They make scout scopes in 2-7 power so not sure why you think they are only 2.5 or 2 power? Check out Burris they have a nice one. So I guess it makes your blog about moving the scope back so you can add a variable power scope kind of a mute point no? Make sure you know all your information before you say the only scout scopes are 2&2.5 power, as there are other scout options and you can use a pistol scope as well which have variable power too. So again my lesson for everyone today is do your reading and research before you write comments on something. Not to say most of you didnāt mean well, but itās just better to read a well informed debate instead of one full of holes and where a lot of people donāt even know what a scout rifle is to begin with. It would be a lot more help to people reading this and deciding wether or not to buy one, or check one out, if we all tried to do our homework before posting, no? Instead we find a bunch of computer commandos whose experience behind a gun is limited to magazines, forums, and blogs, who sound like boneheads that really donāt know what they are talking about. No I am not speaking about the person above just speaking in general on these replies.
SSG G out.
Terrific review. I am a huge fan of the Scout Rifle concept but after several years, I found the forward mounted scope to be a HUGE problem. It is such a problem that I canāt imagine calling a rifle equipped with one to be a true general purpose rifle.
I just wrote a long blog post about my solution if anybody is interested: http://cliffy109.blogspot.com/2014/12/on-scout-rifles-and-scout-scopes.html
glad to see some different mods on the RGS. the earlier version needed a little more to move it towards where it is now. You should try the Ruger plastic Mags. They can be loaded, while in the rifle, by just pressing the round down into place, a nice advantage when single firing at the range. Also I found the action to have a bit of roughness when cycling the bolt(in the early version). With a little bit of light grease and a touch of diamond dust it smoothed up so nice the bolt could be cycled with just the palm of your hand, no fingers used. good story, glad to see it is still being sold
One: would LOVE this in an 18ā³ barrel. NO reason for cutting that 2ā³s (Same with SOCOMs). You are going to be doing much room clearing with this.
Two ā it is still a proprietary mag ā please get your terminology correct ā it is a single source magazine ā that makes it proprietary to Accurate Mags. If it is not something that will use multiple manufacturer commonly available mags, it is using a proprietary mag ā just not proprietary to Ruger. And at $70 a mag? come on, that is a ding.
Good improvements. Some complaints Iāve heard were with the barrel length, 16.5 (and 19ā³, I believe, with the brake). I read somewhere that Cooper at one point had settled on a 19.5 (with no brake). Iām not going to debate with anyone about 18ā³ vs. 16.5ā³, but I will say that Iām fine with 16.5ā³ (and Iāve done my own research and reading) and the overall length, as it is sufficient enough to fulfill the role for which it was meant.
While another three inches (instead of the brake) certainly wouldnāt hurt, I like the idea of having the threaded end for a suppressor option in the future, as well as having some protection for the crown on a rifle that would certainly see some hard duty.
The only three things that I would have liked to have seen were one;three point sling attachments, or a mid way attachment for the use of a tactical sling. But I suppose this could be added later, some way, by the owner.
The second thing; and this one really bites me, is I would like it to have a double stack mag instead of the single, in order to cut down on that protruding magazine and yet still maintain a good 8 round capacity.
And third; I feel that a slot for stripper clips should have been added along with the double stack mag. However I know that this would have put the cost up another couple bills. Even so, with these three features, i feel that it would have been closer to the Cooper concept, and still reasonably affordable.
Have they fixed the binding issue with the bolt? The original gun site had a terrible binding problem. Thatās its biggest flaw. Since theyāre using the 77 action you think it would be perfectly smooth
PLEASE get this straight:
BRAKE | brÄk | (noun)
ā¢ a thing that slows or hinders a process, e.g., a muzzle BRAKE
BREAK | brÄk | (verb) (past broke |brÅk| ; past participle broken |ĖbrÅkÉn| )
ā¢ separate or cause to separate into pieces as a result of a blow, shock, or strainā¦. most definitely NOT a muzzle ābreakā
Next week: āsightā versus āsiteā
I really like this rifle but do prefer the laminated stock to the composite and do wish that Ruger had used a staggered round magazine rather than the straight stack. I also am in the camp that would like to see other caliber offerings such as .223 Rem (5.56 NATO)or 6.5 Grendal.
I have several of the Alpha Industries double stack magazines. Great construction, reliable, lighter and more compact.
http://gunsumerreports.com/review_alpha_industries_type-2_10-shot_magazine_p1.php
According to Rugerās website a 223 Rem/5.56 NATO will be available in January 2015.
It is interesting to see how many commenters have no idea about the Scout Rifle Concept. For the uneducated, this is a reproduction of Col. Jeff Cooperās article about the concept. http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?topic=1298.0
If your idea of rifle shooting is confined to the range, or you believe all the old wivesā tales regarding barrel length or get your hunting experience from outdoor magazines or youāre a wannabe sniper longing for 24-26ā³ barrels, odd ball calibers topped off with a silencer ans 3-30X scope, then a scout rifle isnāt for you.
Yes sir! You are one of the few who actually āGET ITā. Thank you.
I hope ruger is reading this and taking notes, it might be good to make a way for customers or potential customers to comment on what they want or would want on the gun for insight. I like the gun, idea wise and aesthetically, I have a buddy with one of the black barrel models and plan to shoot it before deciding for myself. I thing barrel length and caliber choice would make this a much more marketable piece. I am a big fan of weather ability, and like stainless but hate flash, and the more muted the better for a work/brush gun, lightness is always an issue, weight saved on a stock could be used on a bigger/better scope ect. I have a stainless m_77 in 270 in lefty and have little to complain about except weight. I like ruger products and hope they try to improve their products and give the customer more choices which would give more pull with customers, and maybe improve their market share.
I bought one of these this summer and its a dream to shoot. Someone said it looks like a cross between a mini and m77. I agree but it does have kinda an all business look to it. This is not a long range gun and my understanding is it wasnāt meant to be. I will note that Ruger does offer this gun with a 19ā³ barrel. $1100 is a little high but thatās suggested retail. I paid $722 with free shipping for mine. Also, I wasnāt thrilled with the factory magazine. I purchased some of the Ruger poly mags (a five and a ten). This is a must have upgrade. Ruger also offers a bipod for something like $35. Its like a knock off of a Harris but still quality construction. I also added the Gunsite full length rail in order to use a regular scope. The rail replaces the front piece and rear sight with one long rail. The ghost ring is built onto the new rail so it retains open sights. I use Leupold quick release rings with a Vortex Diamonback 2-7Ć35 which makes scope removal a few seconds if needed.
I wish all of you would learn how to spell āmuzzle brake.ā
I find it difficult to believe the attack on Daveās report on this rifle. Perhaps he needs to have people like Dave Powell write the article for him. That way it would be perfect. I for one care more about getting a chance to shoot this rifle and if I like what I shoot I will purchase it. I have a Marlin Lever Action .308 and love it. I look forward to purchasing this rifle if it turns out to be as good as many of the reviews I read on here. These reviews mean more to me that what was actually in the article by Dave. If the guy from Alaska needs a bear or moose rifle then I have a Marlin Lever Action .45-70 I will trade him for this .308.
I agree with George. First Iām irritated by comments that canāt seem to accept that people make excusable mistakes as if they are perfect in everything they do. Second, most totally missed the points that Cooper was trying to make. Ruger is attempting to address the need for a multi-purpose (if I only had one) rifle. Some comments bitched about caliber (when SHTF try finding a supply of 300 blackout), a longer barrel deceases portability, and true, itās not an Alaska gun no one said it was. Itās not a lot of things and itās not for everyone. Third, stop dogging the authors. I enjoy reading these types of reviews as they are but just ONE element of my research that I rely on before I make a purchase. It appears to me that many of you expect perfection in someone elseās work while sitting on your ass in front of your computer stuffing your face with your morning doughnut. The morning entertainment costs you nothing. I cringe thinking you are the purse-carrying bitches I may be sharing a foxhole with when shit does hit the fan. Grow up.
Now for my comment on the Ruger, I donāt care for yet another proprietary magazine to add to my collection when there seems to be proven designs for .308 already available. However, Iām sure there is a good reason Ruger chose to go that way. I wouldnāt hesitate to add this to my cache if it could use my current collection of magazines. Itās for this reason I own several 1911-style sidearms.
Thanks for the review guys.
Im guessing you were referencing my comment when it comes to you point about finding 300blk after shtf. In my defense my recommendation came from the reviewers perspective of expectations of philosophy of use(range, portability, capability). I know availability of 300blk isnt great(atleast at the current moment) but thats only if you expect to have to use this sometime this year. 7.62Ć39 would be a better recommendation, it is cheaper than almost any other rifle cartridge, can be found under almost any rock, and would still offer substantial terminal ballistics with in the expected range(300m ish). But the reason I recommened 300blk was because there is, to my knowledge atleast one bolt gun that takes the magazine(ar15). Of which is much more available and for a significantly lower cost. But then again Ruger couldāve went ahead and made this take an ak47 magazine chambered it in 7.62Ć39 or 5.45. Both would provide acceptable ballistics within 400m, are as available if not more than .308, all at a much lower cost. For god sakes this rifle is coming to market above a $1000, why even bother? Why would you not just have an ak47/74, or ar15/10? All proven systems, all capable at lower cost, all much more available, ect. The one marketing advantage is that there are not many factory mag fed .308 bolt guns in the market. That is the only thing this gun offers is a marginally lower price for a mag fed .308, bolt action, that comes with irons and a rail. AT BEST this is a niche, and it is by no means cornering the market.
Look if you would stop spouting off for a minute and read what āArmentroutā actually wrote you wouldnāt have even written this response! The rifle is for that all around utility use it for whatever you want to shoot within a reasonable distance which for me has been out to 400yds so far. Itās also in a ridiculously common caliber so you can find ammo when the SHTF and itās the only rifle you happen to have. Please tell me how many people donāt own a .308 of some type or another? Then tell me how many people own a weapon in 300blk, almost none! It hasnāt been a big seller and many people wonder why it is even around. Itās really one of those calibers that has been invented by finding a problem that isnāt really a problem or issue, so my guess is it may stick around but not as an everyone owns one caliber but as you say a niche caliber, so your point is mute. If you take the Ruger Gunsite Scout for what it is and understand the concept of why these are built then itās either for you or it isnāt. As for all you people saying a 16ā³ barrel is too short check out the ballastics, you lose around 170fps or so from a 20ā³ barrel which is really not that much at all, and with the proper load you have a great bolt gun. If you think itās too short just look at the plethora of AR-10ās with 16ā³ barrels. I guess every manufacturer of AR-10 rifles is wrong and their rifles are all terrible then! Not! So people by the review and the many reviews of 16ā³ barreled rifles out there week now that the ballistics is still very good out this length of barrel, so quit complaining about it and learn more before you open your mouths, and if you donāt like it donāt buy it. No one will care I promise.
SSG G out
Dear Sirs.
In early February, 1996, I purchased a RUGER 10.5 ā barrel length revolver, Model 86-81623 44 Mg. The screw holding the grip had a minor blemish, and I requested a replacement. To my surprise, RUGER sent what I wanted, but, to my surprise, you enclosed many free additional parts, as follows: KXR-19L (1ea); KXR-18 (2ea); KXR-17 (1ea); KXR-27, 28 and 47 (1 ea); KMR-33, 44 (1ea); KXB-19 (1ea). Finally, you also sent me the crown jewel of said shipment, a complete rear sight assembly part number MR-35.
I am a pistol nut. However, taking into account my earlier experience, in mid 2014 I purchased another RUGER. This time a Model 05718, 357 cal, SP 101, a moderate recoil gun and a delight to shoot.
You guys have a fine company that manufactures fine weapons. KEEP UP YOUR QUALITY AND YOUR EXCELLENT WARRANTY SERVICE. RZR
Sounds like a great rifle. I am wondering if it will handle nato 7.62 rounds. My Ruger 308 Tactical likes all of it. My Remington 700 would not feed 7.62. Any thoughts?
I reload .308 and 7.62 Nato brass using a .308 die set. There is no such thing as a 7.62 die set. The caliber designation the same. Fail to feed is often a mag issue.
i have a browning x bolt it too wont accept 7.62 ammo but chamber 308 win just find
The tolerances on the specs on a .308 Winchester chamber are tighter than those of a 7.62 NATO chamber. It may be that the 7.62 NATO ammo you had was made with greater tolerances for the initial size of the shell casing. Iāve not heard of such an instance, but it strikes me a not implausible. This assumes the 7.62 NATO stuff you had was straight from the factory. If it was reloaded, there could have been a problem in the resizing.
300m is by no means long range even out of a 16ā³ barrel, .308 can easily make it to 800m with a decent shooter. At the same time though there are better suited calibers for this job. As much as I hate to say it, 300 black out is probably what you should have been using for this project. And probably out of a Mossberg MVP that take a standard AR15 magazine. Shooting a .308 out of a 16ā³ barrel is a waste, will produce a loud and bright muzzle flash, and is overly heavy and bulky when it comes to terms of capacity (if your goal is say 300m and in). 300blk on the other hand would allow you to carry more ammo in a smaller package(like a scout would want), offer very simlar ballistics within the same size and weight constraints, would produce a significantly duller report and muzzle flash(even unsuppressed), and gives you the option to use any milspec ar15 magazine. Which unlike the accurate magazine is much more available, cheaper, and offers wider variety of capacity to the shooter.
I use an AR in 300 Blackout and prefer it to the 308 anyday. Anyone that tells you that the 300 is not a good round needs to shoot one first before running their mouths and looking like a fool. I hunted Missouri this year and killed a nice buck at a measured 325 yards. All 240 lbs. Of him. How much more power do you need ?
Except for weight, how is the scout rifle any more effective than the old British SMLE #4, Mk 1? Iāve seen sporterized SMLEās for much less and donāt see how the Scout rifle does that much more than a good SMLE would?
Huh? Sometimes a comment is *so* āleft of centerā, I canāt bite my tongue hard enough to keep my mouth shut. You have decided to compare a 21st Century 6 pound āspecialistā rifle to a near 19th century, 11 pound battle implement? What do they have in common, besides that both are bolt action rifles firing 30 caliber rounds. Is this what you meant by your comment? If so, then ANY bolt action rifle would be āthe same thingā as this new rifle, wouldnāt it? If you wanted to demonstrate your firearms āknowledgeā, you could have at LEAST used an Enfield #5 āJungle Carbineā as your point of comparison, it would have made a modicum of sense unlike your #4 SMLE example! Your comment for today has earned you an āFā. For your punishment, spend the day reading firearms publications and reflect on your error.
this is not a do all Gun : Maby good for back woods of Alabama but not for a big game or long rang or for joe the plumer to get for his son ās first hunt not for west texas mule deer at +250 yard I dont think I need to keep going on and on do I . Like one sead a $550.00 gun. And if the SHIT dose ever hit this is not what I wont to have to save my life
This is indeed a do-all gun, depending on how you set it up. I run mine with a Leopold two and a half power scout scope, but this rifle is full capable of accepting another variable optic. I donāt think anyone whoās ever hunted would disagree that 308 is a more-than-capable caliber for every animal in North America short of a big Grizzly or polar bear. Mine went on a Maine moose hunt with me and took an 1100 pound bull through both shoulders. The detachable magazine was incredibly convenient for loading and unloading getting in and out of the truck all day, every day, for a week.
If the barrel length is a concern, anyone with a working knowledge of ballistics knows that you donāt lose that many feet per second per inch of barrel with conventional loads, and handloads featuring a faster burning powder can make the most of a shorter Barrel.
Long story short, anybody who canāt get the job done with a .308 and put a bullet in the Boiler Room of a medium or big game animal at 300 yards? Probably shouldnāt be in the woods, or should hit the range and practice up before they get out there.
I own the Ruger Scout with laminated stock and itās awesome. I find mine to be very accurate out to 200 yards. Love the short barrel and find it very easy to handle in the woods.
2 moa at 200 yards is 4ā³
Everyoneās an expert. As we say in the military āOpinions are like AH, Everyone has oneā. And on that note, Dont knock it till you try it. I bought mine for $835, laminated stock and in SS, and it IS the one rifle Id take if I could ONLY choose one!
Thanks Ruger!
G
I have the same rifle as George and totally agree with his statement. The SS 18 inch rifle with polymer mags is an awesome gun for what it was intended for (scout). And unless you have actually fired/shot one, your opinion is baseless and is of limited use (you canāt honestly give any meaningful feedback) . Thanks Ruger for a great rifle. BTW they make several models of this rifle, some in 5.56 mm caliber .
First of all , $ 1,099 is TO much for this Rifle ! Even on a Wholesale level, it would probably be around $ 750 ! Second , a forward mounted Scope , is EXPENSIVE ! Although , a Standard Model could be Mounted ! < Which , would block the Ghost Ring rear sight, making it ineffective ! Third , the barrel is TO short ! 20" would be Right !
I have some experience in long range competition and am a retired range manager at BRL/APG, Md. I recall the original Scout Rifle concept and wish SOMEONE, ANYONE would rid themselves of the detachable magazines and install clip guides for the use of stripped clips which was the original concept as a quasi-military rifle/self defense rifle.
But the magazine looks coolā¦. Oh well
That said, Iāve always considered Rugers to be a somewhat 2nd level product and this example does nothing to make me change my mind. That said, they are usually a reasonable value but this one would need a reduced price IMO to be reasonable.
Jack
Ruger needs to jump out from behind.
The scout idea is archaic in todayās
world of video game mentality of close quarter combat or long range precision.
If this was a 300 blk out or 7.62x 39
with a normal rail, they may of had something. What is going on with Rugerās R and D?
I absolutely agree with your assessement. The scout is neither fish nor foul. It is not for range greater than 100 yards with a 2X scope. It is not a close quarter personal defense rifle given the semi-auto AR15 with red dot or 1-4X scope in traditional mount location can do a much better job. For hunting, it is critical to make pinpoint shot (head/neck) to reduce meat damage and not having to track or lose wounded game. This 2X scope does not help much. The 10-round mag is geared for combat rather than hunting. I cannot recall more than three times did I ever need a second shot during the last 30 years hunting whitetails and feral hogs. If I hunt feral hog herd grazing a huge field where I have an opportunity for more than one shot Iād pick up an AR without a second thought.
There are old, old timers (most of whom are dying off now) who would tell you about a time when a 6x scope on a hunting rifle was considered unnecessarily high magnification. They would call anything above 10x an astronomers instrument.
Go back to the days of WWII and the typical magnification on an ā03 was 2.5x to 4x, and it worked for them. But they were certainly much more hard boiled breed back then, being less dependent upon technology and fancy gadgets and gizmos.
When I was a teen in the early 80s, Iād see these old guys plunking man sized steel targets all day, at 500 to 700 yards, all day using old surplus Mausers, ā03s, Garands, and P17s with iron sights. Granted they werenāt āplacingā consistent head shots. But what they were doing was the equivalent of blowing off a foot or a chunk of hip or shoulder. Now thatās PRACTICAL combat accuracy.
I donāt know about you, but out in the field, I donāt think Iād be doing to well missing a big toe courtesy of a 30-06 from even a mile out. Iād be willing to bet that if some of these old guys were still alive and still had the shoulders for it, that using modern technology, they would hands down and with little effort, out shoot and humble todayās best.
More over, Iād bet that the old timer (provided that his eyes were still good) would have no problem, even with a mere 2x magnification, making clean kills on medium (practical for survival) sized game within 200 yards. And certainly, heād have no problem putting down a two legged target (humanely or not) well beyond that range. Letās face it, if one does not have a precision tuned hunting rifle, the simple adaptation for that is to improve upon ones tracking and stalking skills. The key concept being ADAPTATION.
If one does enough reading on the Cooper concept, they will find that this concept was more or less āLast rifle you will ever haveā under the worst circumstances concept. That is to say, no support, no logistics, no spare parts, ammo in short supply, etc, etc. Itās all about adaptability. Adaptability, in the long run, will always win out over specialization.
Letās face it, military scout, the number one objective is exactly that; scouting, gathering intelligence; not engaging If youāve been compromised, youāve failed, period. And at that point, especially when I know that help isnāt coming any time soon, I would rather be running and evading with a 36ā³, 6.5 pound rifle than with a 42ā³, 12.5 pound lightning rod.
Depending upon the purpose and under the circumstances, whether it be apocalyptic survival, hunkered down in concealment for long periods while evading larger numbers, or being full speed on the run for your life, and any number of other circumstances; in the hands of a skilled and ADAPTIVE user, the āCooper Scoutā (not necessarily Rugerās) is a concept rifle that can be ADAPTED to most PRACTICAL and PLAUSIBLE situations if it was the one and only rifle that the shooter had so long as the shooter could adapt to it. Pair that with a reliable pistol and knife for close encounters, and you could certainly be a whole lot worse off.
I have to say that recent experience with Ruger has left a bad taste in my mouth! I donāt want anyone to get me wrong, I own and appreciate many Ruger products but in my recent experiences with the company for warranty repair and or problems they have fallen far behind what the company use to be even 10 years a go! I feel that in thier quest to make money, which is what a company has to do, they have forgotten customer service after the sale which is what keeps you afloat in the long run! Myself, I never did get any resolution to several warranty or repair services and Ruger will not be on my to buy from list unless it is something really spectacular which this rifle is not. As someone already said, for the money and the fact iās like a cross between the Mini 14 and a M77, no thanks!
I agree with you. I own many Ruger rifles; more than a dozen, and last year my wife bought me a Ruger pistol; a .480 I think. It was missing two screws for the hand gun rings and I called Ruger trying to get them to send them. They refused; saying that model did not come with rings. There was a place in the plastic box for the rings that it comes with. Iāll never buy another Ruger. I sold 2 Ruger rifles recently and bought 3 Tikkas instead. They need to get lessons in customer service. Without that, they will be losing more customers, no matter how many new items they bring to market. Iām really not a fan of investment cast stuff anyway.
Thanks for this. I had wondered if Ruger has addressed the rather poor accuracy early reviewers had reported. Now I know.
The gun looks good in black. I still want the laminate stock, though.
A little rifle with a very large price tag wonāt cut it. This package should be priced around 500.00 to 600.00 dollars.
For a 1000.00 bucks I would rather purchase a Remington 700 5R 20ā³ barrel shooting sub MOA. Much more bang for the bucks.
Never go by MSRP. Picked mine up for$700.00. Might be high for some but Iām partial to the Ruger so if thatās what it takesā¦.
FYI polymer mags work great. Have several of the 10ās and 5ās, no issues.
Itās only available in 308?? I would prefer a 24 or 26 inch barrel. Nice concept though. I am sure they will make improvements as they go along.
You can get on in .223 as well.
I question why you would prefer a 26-inch Barrel. Thatās 10 more inches of barrel? The only benefit of a longer Barrel is marginally increased muzzle velocity with all the downsides of a heavy rifle and less handy carrying characteristics.
AI are āproprietaryā magazines and they are expensive. Ruger didnāt learn itās lesson, and redesign this great rifle to take M14 mags, or at least DPMS style AR10s.
Thankfully, Mossberg āgets itā and itās MVP 762 will remain my utility rifle.
Nice review but needs one correction. A 2 MOA rifle will shoot approximately a 4 inch circle at 200 yards. If it shoots a 2 inch circle at 200 yards itās actually a 1 MOA shooter. (actually 1 MOA/100yards = 1.046ā³ and therefore 2 MOA/200 yards would = 2.084ā³) http://nssf.org/video/MOE.cfm.
Brock
Brock
A typo in my post: 2 MOA at 200 yards is actually a 4.188ā³ circle. āWeāll get it right yetā
Brock
SEEEEEEE! It is easy to screw up! And Iām a writer, not a mathemagician. But I will calculate better and proofread more carefully.
Dave, a little advise from an old guy that writes and makes a few mistakes. Stop reading this thread, have a beer and take a nap.
love the revueā¦
Amazingly I just purchased a lefty version. I love it, of course I fell in love the first time I saw one!!!
Mine will be primarily a paper killer. I might take it predator or hog hunting.
But I am looking forward to push some major lead down the barrel!
Nice review, very accurate!
I own a Ruger Gunsite Guide rifle and its a good rifle,the only problem I have with it is the magazine is a really bad design as the bottom plate has repeatedly fallen off dumping all of the rounds in the dirt. It also does not load or unload easily.
Did you ever call Ruger? They would have replaced those magazines immediately.
Looks good. But ā 2 MOA at 200 yards (which is roughly a 2ā³ circle) ā isnāt right. 2 MOA at 100 yards is a 2ā³ circle. 2 MOA at 200 yards is a 4ā³ circle. Fortunately it looks like you could get 1 MOA anyway.
How does a person distinguish this newly-released model from earlier models of Ruger Gunsite Scout rifles? That would be useful information in a review, otherwise a fine review.
I am a stainless steel NUT. I admit it. But PLEASE, if you donāt like the beauty of stainless steel, for whatever reason, DO NOT use a MATTE finish and completely destroy itās beauty. Use a SATIN finish. It is infinitely nicer. And donāt tell me, āitās a working gun, so we must make it look cheap and trashy.ā I LOVE Rugers. I hope this āmatte SSā trend doesnāt creep into their revolvers. I canāt imagine a .454 Alaskan in matte SS. Ugh, makes me shutter! It would be like smearing mud on the Mona Lisa.
I would prefer a satin stainless barrel on the Scout, but Iāll opt for the black.
Correct the 2moa is 2ā³ at 200 yards.
Iām disappointed in the quality of the writing here. Normally you guys do a lot better.
The quality of the writing? The MOA mistake asideāwhat else is off? Iām not saying it is perfect; we always want to make things better, and will take all legitimate criticism.
I had previously read the original review, āThe Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle ā Gun Reviewā (November 2011) and was skeptical. In fact, I take all magazine-type reviews with a grain of salt since they consistently seem overly positive and soft on the criticism (unless the item in question is plainly an indefensible piece of junk). My guess is a lack of objectivity that is due, depending upon the source, either to fear of loss of revenue (through sales or advertising), or not wanting to lose preference in receiving free sample products for testing.
Looking back to that original review, it was suspiciously thin on discussing accuracy, which abstracted read: āā¦the accuracy was well within the tolerance of modern production riflesā¦ In casual rested shooting none of the ammo went over 2 MOA. The Ruger Model 77 is known as a gun that likes certain bullet and velocity combinations, and Iām sure with careful hand loading and testing it wouldnāt be difficult to find the sweet spot load for this rifle that will hold into under 1MOA.ā
Today in this article we read that the original reviewer, who was initially credited as āBy Administratorā and is now revealed to be Guns America editor āDaveā (Higginbotham?), said his first āreview gun looked good, but the long range accuracy was more like minute-of-barn.ā
It doesnāt take a literary critic to see a clear contradiction here, nor does it take much research to see the potential ramifications of this inaccuracy (or downright dishonesty) in reviewing objectivityā¦ If we look back to just the second comment reply to that review, written by a reader (āBearā) who self-described as disabled veteran living on limited funds, he writes, āI also trust your allās testing and judgment and from that I would purchase one if I ever get the chance.ā He then goes on to say that due to the review, he was considering buying one of the rifles for his nine-year-old grandson.
It is my firm belief that reviewers are obligated, both ethically and morally, to openly reveal any conflict of interests in their assessment objectivity. Does the reviewer sell the item being reviewed, does the manufacturer pay for advertising or such, and how was the review item obtained (was it purchased, loaned, or a gift from the maker)?
Although I am clearly disappointed by Guns Americaās fast and loose treatment of the truth in this instance, I am not surprised and see this simply as a case where a lack of scruples was unintentionally revealed. However, many readers are simply not as savvy as myself, and it disturbs me deeply to see my fellow 2nd Amendment brothers (including, but not limited to disabled veterans who have served our nation proudly) misdirected by what essentially amounts to greed.
If Guns America wants to make up for this wrong they should put their money where their mouth is and purchase one of these new, improved Ruger Scout rifles and make a Christmas gift of it for reader-commenter Bearās now twelve-year-old grandsonā¦ As well as officially changing their editorial policy, henceforth clearly disclosing their relationship with the weapon being reviewed and the manufacturer thereof. -Dave Powell, Crawfordville, FL
Wow. I forgot to cover my ass with this one. The Gunsite I reviewed was NOT the one reviewed in the GunsAmerica article linked above. Iāve been writing for GunsAmerica for less than a year, now. I was writing for an entirely different publication then.
āIt is my firm belief that reviewers are obligated, both ethically and morally, to openly reveal any conflict of interests in their assessment objectivity. Does the reviewer sell the item being reviewed, does the manufacturer pay for advertising or such, and how was the review item obtained (was it purchased, loaned, or a gift from the maker)?ā
We get guns and gear from all sorts of sources. None are gifts. Even from our advertisers, we send guns back. If not, we arrange payment at the end of the review cycle and purchase the occasional gun just like anything else. If gear or ammo is provided that canāt be returned, we make that known in the reviews. No one gets a pass with us, not even our advertisers.
āAlthough I am clearly disappointed by Guns Americaās fast and loose treatment of the truth in this instance, I am not surprised and see this simply as a case where a lack of scruples was unintentionally revealed. However, many readers are simply not as savvy as myself, and it disturbs me deeply to see my fellow 2nd Amendment brothers (including, but not limited to disabled veterans who have served our nation proudly) misdirected by what essentially amounts to greed.ā
Really? A simple mistake on my part gets this kind of response? Were you just having a bad day? My guess is that youāre upset about something that may need more attention, and Iām glad youāve brought it up. Iāll do my part to make things clear.
Yes, Dave, really. With the Remington R 51 debacle, great reviews crappy guns, fresh in the gun buying publicās mind, magazine writers are held in about the same esteem as used car salesman?.
>> However, many readers are simply not as savvy as myself,<< Can you say pompous? (look it up Dave, you may not be as "savvy" as meā¦)
Dave Powell, I read your response to the editors remarks on this rifles over all action. And I appreciate you giving us your opinion and insight as to why he said what he said and that its not a creditable review to use when buying a overall hunting rifle. I do not hunt, but I would like to buy my son-in-law a rifle that he can use for everything from hog, to come Deer season Deer. Right now he only has a shot gun that he deer hunts with. Using buckshot to hunt his deer with. I think he is hunting in the 50 yards max, so I think he would have much better luck if he could reach out there a little father and touch one without having it run off hurt and either not being able to find it or just injuring it. He has hogs and deer coming right thru his front yard but I think he needs a real deer rifle to hunt with, any suggestionās? I wasnāt looking to break the bank, this will be a gift, and also I would like to get him something he could afford the buy the ammo for. I know what happened to my ammo for my AR-15(223/556) awhile back. Looking for a good all around gun for him, wouldnāt even mind something used with a good 3X9 scope on it, something he could kill a deer and also afford to sight it in before hand. Thank you for any and all help, really appreciated your help, past and future. Have a great holidays to you and your family.
My favorite Donald Sutherland partā¦. hell, my favorite movie character.
Kellyās Heroes (1970)
Oddball: Why donāt you knock it off with them negative waves? Why donāt you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why donāt you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
And a little note to managementā¦ those Bumpfire Systems folks are awesome. My order got messed up and they stayed in total and prompt email contact and even gave me a little present for the inconvenienceā¦ for $99 who would have thought they would spend an extra minute with ya. Awesomeā¦
2 MOA is not a 2ā³ group at 200 yards. It is 4ā³ approximately.
At least one other shooter understands basic math. Cudos.
Yes! Thanks. Apologies. I screwed up the number in the edit, as I wasnāt thinking about the appropriate distance. Simple editorial mistake.
The initial statement is correctā¦ (or has it perhaps been edited since your feedback?)
āIt needs to shoot at least 2 MOA at 200 yards (which is roughly a 4ā³ circle). You should shoot that well, too.ā
IDKā¦ this rifle looks like a weird hybrid between a M77 and a Mini 14. Size and weight are overall pluses, and in the stainless finish I agree should make a great all-purpose weapon. However the suggested pricetag of nearly $1100 is killing my interest quick.
I picked one up used (unfired) for $650. New they run about 800-850. VERY NICE RIFLE
Would Ruger ever consider building this rifle in something other than .308 ?
Up Iām Alaska, this would be considered
nice but NOT powerful enough for moose, grizzly bear, etc. Maybe the new Ruger .375 ? Now THAT would be the āperfectā rifle for that region !
I have a customer who recently purchased a 375 Ruger in a different model but similar. Came with removable muzzle break, stainless with open sites. Very impressive.
Check out the Ruger Guide Gun. Probably a little less handy than the Gunsite, but it comes in the popular big bore magnum calibers.
Junk guns ya right thats why reloading manuals have a section for Thompson center and Ruger only.You should do a little research and reloading before you spout off.I think your politics clouded your common sense.Ruger will handle loads that would blow up just about any other handgun except a contender.If i am going to shoot full house magnums it wont be out of anything but a Ruger Thompson or a Dan wesson .look before you leap because you dont like their politics does not detract from the quality and workmanship {american} that they put in their products
the 308 is quite capable of killing any moose or bear out there. just got to know what you are doing.
Edward M. Edson ā I was looking for something someone wrote on some kind of āscoutā rifle to help a friend who wanted a āscoutā rifle and he didnāt like the lever action and wood of a Marlin ā he wanted a āblack gunā, and ran across this post. If this makes you feel any better about the .308 doing OK in Alaska ā good (and no Iād never thought anything less that a hand made āhotā load 45-70 (or 90) would be worth carrying for the same reason you did. Think about hearing a .22 was going to replace the 30-06 as the main battle rifle ā that was kind of how I thought (heck a .223 is only 3/1000th larger than a .22LR for cryinā out loud! ā I mean had the ***ENTIRE*** DOD done some very good and VERY strong LSD?!!!).
I was watching a documentary on one of the Arctic tribes ā if I could even come close to the title or maker, Iād refer you to it. (It was along the lines of a National Geographic type of film). Hereās the gist: Folks living in a fishing village North of the Arctic Circle were getting ready for the ice to break up ā it was a getting ready to go ābear huntingā (as in Polar). A woman who looked WELL into her 70s (so letās call her 50-60 from the sun and wind and cold exposure wrinkles) was getting ready to hunt along side the men. She was talking about how sheād brought back a bear ā. . .[E]very Season Since I was 20, that was a bad year when everyone had to hunt. . .even kids normally too young . . .ā ā And she watched as the guide pulled out a couple of .300 Win. Mags, and a BMG bolt. She looked at them and said ā why so many guns and so big for only one man?ā (actually they were for the crew, and we just saw three of them the crew was 6 men) /cut film to close up of the nearly toothless old lady as she was unhooking her dog team with help from family for friends. Que sound: Old lady talking: āThey said I couldnāt kill one with one of these either, but itās the only gun Iāve ever owned, I got it from my young husband when his Kayak turned over on him and they were out fishing big fish (from context it was some kind of small whale that generally draw killer whales to co-hunt with the the tribe and help guide the target kill the ābig fishā and the Indians always gave (what later on in the film looked like about 1/4) some back to the killer whales. So theyād formed a symbiotic relationship ā only the guy was usually in the boat and not in the water, so MY guess is seeing the hunter in the water, lost him the advantage of a ānormal silhouetteā, and he became dinner ā just my guess. I donāt know why else a Killer Whale would let a guy stay safe in a boat and kill him in the water (and come on guys ā a āKayakā is BARELY a āboatā more like a raft with stiff sides.).
What kind of rifle was she holding? ā the one āthey said I couldnāt kill one with . . .ā? ā you wonāt believe it (and I donāt blame you for an instant ā mean a .22 as a BATTLE rifle!??? LOL!!!!!) ā I had to rewind several times to make CERTAIN that I was seeing and hearing correctly. ā there in her mittened hand was a rifle everyone on this list could ID after dark with ANY kind of silhouette from back-ground moon or ambient snow-glow ā It was a scopeless M-14. With Mag. Yep, āGot me 23 or 24 with this, and some were very big, took two days to get the meat cut up to take home (normal time was about half to 3/4 of a day to gut, skin, and cut into pieces large enough to sled back to camp). Now TWO days is a BIG bear. (or a small party ā they didnāt imply a small party but the point is the same).
An M-14 with a standard issue looking mag firing store bought (probably low end price, though I didnāt see the box) .308ās ā and lets call it, just to correct for any exaggeration, 20 full sized Polar Bears through standard open iron sights. It was just only about a 2, maybe 3 minute clip of the movie, night have been less.
But it doesnāt take a lot of time to show WHY a .22 caliber would replace the .30-06 as THE standard issue Battle Rifle ā ONE moving photo into a watermelon or Gel would make it PERFECTLY clear ā more than a thousand or more words could EVER make someone believe a .22 cal was not a bad standard issue battle rifle with more pros than cons ā That one split second shot of some Tribal woman holding a short standard issue lookingM-14 .308 Cal and knowing that particular rifle had taken down as many polar bears as I have probably seen in my entire life (with her eyes and iron sights) was more than enough to say it was FAR more than ābeginners luckā.
Now, personally Iād probably not want to wait for a 200-300 yard shot ā but I canāt see how it could be done outside that range (to bring down a getting pissed off bear). She had less than maybe 40 seconds of ātalk timeā but she sure didnāt say ā and I listened many times to see if she let the bear get ācloseā ā though that can be the only explanation I can come up with ā Yet for over 20 years (and more if her husband died āyoungā) that M-14 brought home food for the table every single year. Correct me if Iām wrong but storing Ammo in a box for that long is not the best way to make sure that EVERY round would fire ā and fly straight. So if we use an āunexaggeratedā figure of 20 bears ā that still leaves 20 bears per box of ammo. And now THAT begins to sound exaggerated. (And yeah, maybe it was a box a per bear, but that sure didnāt fit with the context of the film ā TWO rounds would have been pushing the context of the film). So it might not be your FIRST CHOICE ā but I have it on film that a little old lady with a stock issue M-14 with iron sights brought down at least one bear a season for over 20 years ā with that rifle held in the hands of someone who looked over 70, ā and at 50 ā, those iron sights get hard to see without help from the glare of sunlight over time..
If I knew WHERE to look Iād have an idea so I could post it here for the unbelieving ā though the best example I can some up with is hearing that a .22 cal was going to become our standard issue battle rifle ā I wouldnāt believe it either, but since so much of what I watch are documentaries, often two an evening ā for me itās a movie or two (mostly (90+%) documentaries) then an hour of reading ā then lights out and I go to sleep. So I doubt Iād EVER find it again since there wasnāt much else in the film worth mentioning as either amazing or beautiful ā
So there you go ā open sight M-14 .308 kept all as-issued stock is all you need to bring down what is probably the largest and one of the meanest animals in North America ā After that a moose would be more like a yearling deer.
Absolutely the LAST firearm of ANY firearm Iād EVER recommend for the VERY real dangers of the Arctic. Iād have to think long and hard to find THEN recommend one that fit many categories so you didnāt need more than two (shotgun and long arm) ā āsafteyā being one of them ā And without SEEING her do it, Iād hesitate at how close it might have to be ā things are less scary at 70 than in your 40ās ā but even taking THAT into account ā a .308 vs. Polar Bear? (remember only one long gun) Grandma used a .308 Government, me? Iād be nervous with a 45-70 Government.
So there you go if you are thinking a .308 ātoo smallā ā Grandma says itās not ā and has been proving it for over 20 years. Whoda ever thunk!!!???
Here is One More gun I wonāt BUY because of āTo Short of Barrel ! For a 308, the Min. barrel should be NO Shorter then 18 inch.
you obviously have no clue what a gunsite rifle isā¦. do some research.
You tell us Brian?
(Bran): Classic response from someone who really doesnāt know what HE is talking about!
you obviously have no clue what a gunsite rifle isā¦. do some research.
Nice rifle, but. I do not like flash-hiders or muzzle brakes. Too noisy and unnecessary for most situations. I would rather have that 2ā³ of barrel. Also, I would not buy it because it will not accept a standard AR, FAL or M14 magazine (Mossberg did it!). I guess nothingās perfect.
Dear Sir
I was reading your comment about the different man that wonāt interchange. I was Lance Cpl. scout sniper in Hue city Vietnam 1968. I carried and M 14 with a flash suppressor on I was making shots 800 yards. Then when I was in the Department of Corrections and the statement Nevada I carried an H and K 91 and you could not exchange the magazines from the M 14 to the 91 much less take a smaller caliber such as the 5.56 x 45 Ar magazine. I donāt know which magazines are reading your information from but intelligibly in an real combat and had also wanted it doesnāt seem like you Do Not know Jack about weapons. There are so many people who write articles who call themselves experts who were in the Afghan pity party. Youāre the same people who say that Vietnam was not much of a war at all and Iām getting sick and tired of hearing it from these young people that they had it worse than we did the most youāve ever had to worry about in Afghanistan is a maximum of 1500 insurgents what we faced 82,000
the city of hue happened to visit hue in 1969 went all the way into the center of the citidel sort of like the white house its amazing what a 55 grain bullet can do to a person actually its discusting a .308 bullet is even more discusting shooting paper is alot less personel than shooting a enemy soldier after 2 years in vietnam i came up with one conclusion nobody wins in war soldiers were killed or dismembered for life and emotionally injured for life one year with the first infantry one year on the dmz you cant change yesterday only tomorrow shooting paper is alot safer targets dont shoot back dosent matter what war the pain and suffering is still there sorry for getting off track one closing statement a weapon is only as good as the person pulling the trigger i still enjoy target shooting. allan roper .god bless america.
āNam Scout, and Allan: Iāll get to an interesting āscout rifleā that few have thought about here because they are not āblack gunsā ā though before I start I need to warn you that Iāve been accused here as being arrogant, snobbish, pompous, being over-bearing, and perhaps VERY ignorant as well. I do not mean to come off that way. Many people here donāt understand the concept of combat arms and what they can, might, and donāt do when used correctly in real life. Though some (not all) have an imagination of what they CAN do ā and they are are not wrong in those thoughts. I am also suspect, as many are, of those who use the term āVeteranā. Technically it can be stretched to anyone in uniform ā coulda been in the Deep-Rock Five Star Hotel in Omaha as a clerk-typist OR as a rifleman in some kinda insane special stink hole raised from Hell especially for the Marines like Hue or Khe Sanh. Though there are those who DO understand what you are talking about and the difference. And, in todayās wars of Iraqistan, I would NOT want to be a truck-driver or mechanic bringing in (or taking out) supplies over the mountainous roads and passes from Pakistan to Taliban and back. I believe that their job is FAR more dangerous than many ground-pounders were the truth to be told.
We only had ābooby trapsā ā now they have IEDās ā which are rarely āimprovisedā, often use calculated shaped special munition charges, and certainly rise above mere ādevicesā and approach very well engineered purpose-driven weapon systems . I have yet to read equivalents of āpunjiā, the storms of arrows, or the scary-silent āporcupineā, let alone the leg and ankle breakers or the simple tiny charges that only took a tiny PART of a foot or hand. Just enough to take someone out of action, and a couple of folks to care for him for awhile while āCharlieā got away. Or the special ārope trapsā ā weapons of tinny terror that littered even the remotest forest or field and were always far off and well away any path at all. But I digress.
One of the giveaways is often the misperception of how wounds work, and that ācenter of massā (or even a head shot) will ALWAYS drop a person where they stand. We know that they do not equal instant death or incapacitation though it is likely if itās in the head, and sooner or later will probably be if itās center of mass (says a FMF HM (āNam x3) often split between 2 and 3/5 with too much experience). Many here may not recall the word āTetā off the top of their head. And thatās OK; anyone whoās been in real combat is a brother, like someone once said to me ā (as an HM) you are the buttons on my coat).
All else aside here is a long-arm (Well with a 16 inch barrel itās BARELY a ālong-armā) worthy of consideration as a āscoutā designation ā and a fun one at that: say a hand cast 475 gr HP moving slow enough to open up, even at close range, that would make someone thunk twice (note past tense) ā you can outfit the rifle with rails if you want and put on lights, lasers, scopes, horns, and even (I suspect) a coffee pot if you want one ā though many would be more likely than not restrict the rail to a light,scope, and/or laser at MOST.
Depending on the charge you hand-load, it can be a close quarters low power stop-them-now firearm (pick them up and set them down in the same room ā or two rooms away if you have a good thermal imaging system), to a drop a buffalo at 1 mile firearm.
(laugh all you want, but you should do the laughing before the trigger is pulled).
Itās the venerable Marlin 1895 (120 YEAR OLD) .45-70 Government Scout (about 18 inch barrel, or Trapper with about a 16 inch barrel) ā and the cost without glass? From the middle $500ās to the middle high $700ās. You wonāt find ammo littering the street thatās for certain sure. But the price is right, the load is variable, and with one of those rifles (even a 5 shot rifle) they load fast enough to keep a cartridge ready to go next, and are accurate enough to get you what ever other fire-arm you might want.
Just for giggles check out a YouTube video of the Hornady 325gr LEVERevolution FTX (I just happened to find one by Hornaday though I suspect other manufacturers would show about the same level of shock) when shot into ballistic gel ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNrH77SdHMI ). And, while you are there check out how accurate the 16 or so inch barrel is ā Pretty amazing ā for ANY kind of long-gun ā what it may lack in fire-power it makes up for in raw-power. Remember that a BMG doesnāt rattle off a thousand rounds a minute from your shoulder. And a .223 does have terminal ballistic problems as discussed here several times when the argument is .308 vs .223. And the Marlin wonāt break the bank, even when āloadedā with the APPROPRIATE toys on the rail ā a $4, 000 piece of glass would be wasted, just like a $400 piece of glass might be wasted.
But remember, if you hand-load, you can custom your charge and bullet for the job at hand: hurt the bad guy in front of you and not your wife and kids two or three rooms away, or your neighbor on the far side of their house ā OR make that big mean bear turn into BBQ and stew from 300 yards away.
Itās āoutside the boxā in thinking and as a āmodernā weapon system ā but it will do the job you want done. No one is going to survive trying to defend their house from a modern fire-team assault from any of our armed forces ā including the police these days. And the most common firearm relied upon for survival by our western settlers was the shotgun followed by a medium game rifle (~.30-30). And if the idea here is a āscout rifleā, might as well get one that will do the job from multiple distances and for multiple purposes. ā And the history of that round goes back well over 100 years so itās characteristics are very well known, and modern firearms can fire modern powder giving it even more versatility.
From Wikipedia: āWhile the effective range of the .45-70 on individual targets was limited to about 1,000 yards (915 m) with either load [405 grain or 500 grain], the heavier bullet would produce lethal injuries at 3,500 yards (3,200 m). At those ranges, the bullets struck point-first at a roughly 30 degree angle, penetrating three 1-inch (2.5 cm) thick oak boards, and then traveling to a depth of 8 inches (20 cm) into the sand of the Sandy Hook beach.ā Just slow that 500 grain bullet down a bit, make it a hollow point, put it into a 16 inch barrel, and you have one lethal slow-moving, pick them up and set them down, round. Target wearing a top-of-the-line Kevlar vest? MY money would be on the target NOT standing up, or even feeling like they wanted to after being hit ā even if the vest stayed intact. And, after all, isnāt that the purpose of āself-defenseā? To disable the threat? My bet would be that after being hit by 500 grains of lead traveling at only a few hundred feet a second (or less) the threat would no longer be a threat ā and reload time is about as fast as you can aim. We all know how Chuck Connors (āLucas McCainā) did it in āThe Riflemanā ā nothing fancy, nothing to break.
It will do what ever you want it to ā knock the wind out of someone, or kill a buffalo at 1000 yards. Now THAT is a versatile āscoutā rifle. And you wonāt go crazy shooting either, its a good thing to slow down and take aim before you pull the trigger. I find my pleasure in accurate placement of shots on paper targets ā Zen Shooting ā VERY much like Zen Archery, just a bit louder. And often more accurate than a spray where you will often scare something a LOT, but more often than not ā NOT always hit it.
Amen!
Thanks Doc, for that refreshing tiradeā¦ I agree wholeheartedly, a Scout rifle is a highly specialized rifle, created for a very specific job, and a specific user. This gun fills a lot of categories for me even without moving towards the āblack gunā uses it nicely fits. What an excellent ācamp gunā to have handy for that hungry bear that we seem to have a plethora of, hereabouts in western Washington. Or, to have as a truck gun, behind the seat or in a sleeve on the bench seat front of my trusty ācrummyā! (To those of you non-native Washingtonians a ācrummyā is your GP off-road vehicle used for hunting, among other things.) This baby will remain handy and ready for years ! (Especially the SS version !) I canāt wait till I buy this gun, and give it a whirlā¦ Thanks Ruger !
Right on Brother!
Kev
Im a Afghanistan combat veteran and I agree with you! preach on
Effing A bubba!!!! I believe there are pros and cons to Every weapon. It is upto the shooter to make use of it.
Desert Shield/Storm, Bosnia, Kosovo, and the GWOT (Afghanistan/Iraq). We all had it very easy compared to your generation of warriors. Thank you.
Mike P.
SFC/USA (Ret.)
Yeah, Mossberg did it, and now have a rifle with feed problems.
The HK91 (G3) has a 17 inch barrel and performs well. In decades past short barrels had a disadvantage of inefficient powders. Today we see excellent performance from short tubes.
Why a bolt gun
Why not choose a autoloading rifle?
In Pennsylvania weāre not aloud to hunt with semi-autos. I got a Ruger Gunsite scout rifle two years agoā¦and two whitetails with it so far. Mine shoots about 3/4 moa with M118 LR.
Thatās pretty simple. A bolt gun because itās got less parts to break and it makes you slow down a little and actually aim your shots before you take them. And to āDocā+1 on the 1895 45-70, or even the 30-30 lever actions.
I for one think the .308 is a very versatile cartridge as well, it can be used for anything from CQB, to 800-1,000yds away, and loaded to the spectrum of 125-190gr bullets with many different tips and ballastics that you can pretty much kill anything game, or people wise in the USA. I for one enjoy my Ruger Gunsite Scout rifle and have had no issues taking it out to 400yds and keeping it within 1.5 MOA. I have not tried it any farther out yet because I have no where to shoot any farther right now, but itās a very well built excellent rifle.
As for you āScout Sniper VNā, I find what you said about the troops from Afghanistan and Iraq very insulting, and very ignorant as well. Donāt lump me in with someone who bad mouthed you once itās stupid and very judgmental. I spent 15 years in the US Army from 1994-2012 (break in service after active duty then was in Reserves) and was deployed to The Middle East region 9 times during my career, with 2 deployments to Iraq before I was wounded badly in 2009 during my 2nd deployment. I would never minimize what you guys went through in Veitnam it was horrible I am sure, but donāt try to minimize a war or wars you donāt know anything about either. What me and my guys went through during those two deployments was horrible as well! No one should have to go through combat for months on end and weare all brothers no matter what war or conflict we fought in. I respect every man and women who has been in combat and stood out on that line, patrolled those, jungles, and fought street to street, building to building to take back places like Fallugah, and the Anbar province. By the way I know what the Tet offensive was when the Veitnamese launched coordinated attacks during their New Years celebrations which was usually a time of cease fire or little combat. I am not a young punk but neither are 99% of the soldiers, Marines, Navy, and Airmen who served in Iraq and Afghanistan. Remember what it was like for you and maybe you will let yourself respect all of your brothers and sisters who fought and wanted the same things I am sure you did. Sorry for the side track but I canāt take people talking bad about the guys I served with and the young men who I was in charge of, itās just not right at all.
SSG GO out.
AMEN Brotherā¦ā¦.I stayed in the Corps for 21 yrsā¦ā¦37 months on the ground in VNā¦ā¦.and several months in other shit holes around the worldā¦ā¦and yes I made TETā¦ā¦and spent a lot of time plinking along the Perfume Riverā¦ā¦.Iāve been blessed in lifeā¦ā¦.after the Corps I spent a lot of time as a contractor supporting several Gov. Agenciesā¦..I ended up retiring a second time from industry where I helped translate operational requirements into weapon solutionsā¦..when I retired it was because I developed colon cancer which was discovered at stage 3b when I was 64ā¦ā¦not a bad run since it was the first time I was sick with anything seriousā¦.now I have progressed to stage 4 and spend my time going back and forth to Walter Reed/Bethesda for treatmentsā¦..I donāt have to go to Walter Reed for treatmentsā¦..itās a 3 hr round trip at least once a weekā¦ā¦I go because the men and women I meet up their are inspirational to meā¦..they are amazing examples of the warrior code the binds all of us into an inexplicable brotherhoodā¦ā¦combat is combatā¦ā¦it marks usā¦..the only residual good is the company we share with each otherā¦ā¦I have nothing but absolute respect for folks on the field todayā¦ā¦we should think long and hard before ever suggesting those of our time had it worse than those of anotherā¦..we are the sameā¦.and all we really have is each otherā¦..
So I also take exception to the suggestion that our guys from recent wars and conflicts are less than those from our timeā¦ā¦remember that no one understands us like each other and thank God we have each other when things get dark
Bolt action is fine for hunting, if you canāt hit right with one shot, you should keep your finger straight.
āHere is One More gun I wonāt BUY because of āTo Short of Barrel ! For a 308, the Min. barrel should be NO Shorter then 18 inch.ā
Well, thatās one personās opinion. A few weeks ago I purchased a Ruger Gusite Scout. I had a choice between the stainless 18.7ā³ and the black 16.1ā³ versions. After some consideration I opted for the shorter 16.1ā³ barrel. My choice was also black laminate and blue rather than synthetic or stainless, another conscious and well-considered decision.
The reasoning was simple ā I have a multitude of rifles in 20ā³ to 26ā³ barrel lengths. Although I had concerns about noise and velocity loss due to the short barrel, one trip to the range eliminated those concerns. Noise was not as bad as some of my longer rifles and even handguns. Winchester 150 grain Power Point (X3085) averaged 2647fps over the chrono and Remington 150 grain Core-Lokt PSP (R308W1) averaged 2651fps. While this is a loss of 170fps from published velocities, it is plenty for my needs. Recoil was also milder than expected. One of the first things I did was buy a 3- and 5-round polymer magazine. These fit tighter than the factory 10-round steel mag and will see the most use. They also make the Scout legal for hunting big game (antelope, deer and elk) in the states that concern me. What I wanted was a handy, rugged-as-hell, reliable and versatile rifle and the 16.1ā³ barreled Scout fills the bill very well.
Would not buy or have a Ruger after they sided with Bill Clinton years back on gun control issues. I have sold all my Rugers and dam glad of it! I classify them as junk guns for those that do not know any better.
While I donāt agree with what Bill Ruger did back then, I consider Ruger rifles and revolvers to be among the best values available today. Without exception my M77, MKII and Hawkeye rifles are accurate, rugged as hell and reliable. Same for my Ruger revolvers. Junk? Not hardly.
Wow! Arenāt you smart. Bill Ruger has been dead for 12 years. Since then, Ruger (the company) has moved into 1911s, polymer framed revolvers, ARs and the Gunsite scout.
Saying that Rugers are junk guns for ājunk guns for those that do not know any betterā says much about your willful ignorance.
The barrel length is a not as import as everyone thinks, and longer barrels have a tendency to whip. I am no expert, but a constantly learning shooter. This is a great article on barrel length.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/10/daniel-zimmerman/the-truth-about-barrel-length-muzzle-velocity-and-accuracy/
With that being said, I own an older free floated Ruger Scout and I am looking to use it to shoot longer ranges. It is that accurate. I have a 1.5-4 Leupold Scout scope on it. I have no doubt that in normal daylight i can hit reliable at 300 yards. The problem comes when I am hunting at daybreak and dusk, the small objective is a hinderance and I find I have to carry binoculars to help me determine which deer to shoot.
Iām thinking if I put a regular scope on it, i can easily shoot 600-800 without an issue, but that defeats the purpose of a scout rifle doesnāt it.
With that being said, I love this rifle, it will be my go to hunting rifle for years to come.
Wrong! The 308 round will work just fine out of a 16ā³ tube, or even shorter (Thompson Contender Encore) especially if you hand load using slightly faster burning powders and the lighter projectiles typically used for thin skin animals like whitetails. I think it would make an excellent pig gun too depending on the barrel twist and if itāll stabilize 150 ā 165gr pills . Iām sure Ruger realized this when they designed the barrel knowing most people will use something along the lines of 150gr projectiles or lighter. Weāre not talking about a 1000 yard 308 target rifle here folks, weāre talking about a rifle for hunting. Or self defense for you folks that lives in one of the states (Republiks?) that donāt allow those terrible murderous fully automatic āAR-15ā² black guns. Shame on you Bushmaster! lol
What I like about it most of all is the fact my Cyclone suppressor will fit right on it and you still have a realitively compact hunting package. It would still be loud but most of the noise would be from the projectilesā supersonic crack. Old hard-headed farts like myself would probably not even have to wear hearing protection while hunting, which I hate doing anyway.
This still uses proprietary magazines! You donāt seem to understand the term. They are still proprietary, just from a sub vendor instead of Ruger itself.
If you canāt buy the magazines from multiple manufacturers, it is proprietary. It is really simple.
Now if they would do like Mossberg did and make it use standard DPMS/Stoner magazines, they would have something.
Why reinvent the magazines and have to pay horrendous prices for magazines you can use in one rifle (proprietaryā¦) instead of magazines that are interchangeable with your other .308/7.62 rifles?
Ruger just still canāt get the idea of what us gun owners want in regards to magazines.
FAR more likely to get the Mossberg and just add a forward picatinny if I feel the need.
I own a scout. The gun out of the box does not work ! The #2 round I fired struck in the chamber . The first 30 rounds I fired would not eject right , bolt does not work correctly . bolt will not cycle . Sent gun back to ruger AND IT CAME BACK AS BAD AS THE FIRST TIME ! NOW IT HAS GONE BACK 3 TIMES .Called Gunsite academy and talked to a gunsmith thereā quoteā they are aware of all failures of this gun ! please call them to confirm my statement. this gun is not safe it is not any good the design is false . my name is mike day and I would be happy to tell anyone about this junk gun and ā RUGERSā poor customer service !!!! my email is [email protected]
To whom this may concern I bought a scout on 1/5/2014 .On day one failure to eject ,shell case stuck in breech ,hard to and could not pull back bolt problems . Tried all kinds of shells still had problems sent gun back. Gun was not repaired same as before sent it in again talked to their CS rep and was told they fired 60 rounds through gun with no problems . When I TOOK THE GUN OUT THE FIRST ROUND FIRED AND THE BOLT WOULD NOT CYCLE . I have used their contact the CEO ON THEIR SITE NO REPLY! After this I called GUNSITE ACADEMY AND SPOKE TO MIKE IN THEIR SMITH SHOP AND WAS TOLD THEY KNOW ABOUT THESE PROBLEMS and more ! My name is MIKE DAY I am writing this review to tell people not to buy RUGER PRODUCTS UNTIL THEY CONTACT ME FOR REFUND OF MY EXPENSE OF SHELLS . I am not the only one who is having problems my in box is proof other men have mailed me about this junk gun. Just FYI my dealer was able to refund me for my junk scout but not my mags and I bought a SOCOM a fine gun. Any one want to buy seven mags for a scout or I will trade 7 for five M1 MAGS 10 ROUNDERS. My EMAIL IS [email protected] .
To all the naysayers, I like the gun. Isnāt that what it should be about? It shoots just fine (with my own loads). Mounted a scout scope, but even these tires old eyes can shoot at 100 with acceptable accuracy using the irons. Love that claw ejector! Not a 700 that asks for a rod to be shoved down her throat (relax, have six of āem). I think I may even like it better than my mini 30, and again, after all the specs and coefficients have been dissected by people who usually donāt even own the gun- Isnāt that really what itās about? I like it. Get one and youāll like it too.
I love mine but unfortunately I have not fired it much as my other rifles to because I had to move right in the middle of town and I hate the local range and is a good place to get shot by some idiot at , no supervision what so ever. Its not safe to go there by yourself, two AWOL Marines shot and killed a Preacher there one morning just for his gun and his Jeep but they were caught and are facing execution.
Anyhow I sure like my Gun site Scout in .308, its in L.H. as I am and its why I got it for a song and a one of those Ruger poly framed revolvers in .38 spec. and it was back when you couldnāt hardly get them unless you were on a waiting list, but the shop just couldnt sell the L.H. model they hadā¦untill I walked in lol. But it seems like a real tuff do -it-all rifle for sure, and I recently bought a 20 rd. poly mag on line for it just for the heck of it. and to have a 20 rd. bolt action I guess. But all in all its a nice gun that I wouldnt trade for a farm in Georgia, and it has the laminate stock. Ivāe had it for at least 5 yrs.
I would like to get a diff muzzle break that I read about the other day on line but forgot what it was.
And anytime the āone gun ā conversation comes up you will never have more that two ppl in agreement, even if its a crowd of three lol!
Why wouldnāt you consider a barrel shorter than 18ā³?
Not accuracy: The shorter barrel will deliver more consistant performance.
Not handling: A longer barrel is significantly more cumbersome, not to mention weight-adding.
So, why?
Might be because of muzzle velocity. I have heard that up to a point every inch will / can add 100 F.P.S. in most cases but like I said āup to a pointā