This may seem like an odd comparison, but I cannot count the number of times I have been in a gun store listening to either the “gun guru” behind the counter, or the “expert sniper” on the other side talking about how the 6.5 Creedmoor is like a 300 Win Mag without the recoil. The 6.5 Creedmoor is also touted as a long range big game caliber like the 300 Win Mag.
The 6.5 Creedmoor and the 300 Win Mag are often compared as long range cartridges.
Let’s dive into the ballistics and see how they compare. To keep things fair we will compare both calibers using bullets with the highest ballistic coefficient (BC) that can be pushed to a reasonable velocity. Then let’s compare bullets with the highest BC that are recommended for hunting by the manufacturer. We will also use velocities that are obtained with common barrel lengths for each cartridge.
For the 300 Win Mag, the load we will use is a Berger 215 Hybrid Target bullet with a G1 BC of .691 and a G7 BC of .354 pushed to a velocity of 2886 fps. For the 6.5 Creedmoor, we will look at a Hornady 147 ELD-M with a G1 BC of .697 and a G7 BC of .351 pushed to a velocity of 2700 fps. Each load will be compared at 500 and 1000 yards at an elevation of 2500 ft. and a temperature of 70 degrees with a 100 yard zero. This standard for atmosphere and sight in will be used for all data.
6.5 Creedmoor/300 Win Mag
| Range (yrds.) | Drop (in.) | Drift 10 mph (in.) | Velocity (fps) | Energy (ft/lbs.) |
| 500 | 51.4 / 43.8 | 12.1 / 10.8 | 2139 / 2311 | 1494 / 2550 |
| 1000 | 295.6 / 252.3 | 54.9 / 48.5 | 1649 / 1806 | 887 / 1558 |
As you can see the 6.5 Creedmoor falls short of the 300 Win Mag. It’s really close. We should also consider recoil and cost to shoot. Let’s look at hunting loads.
First, let’s establish some minimum standards for the energy required to take down a deer and an elk. For the deer let’s use the longtime standard of a 30-30 Winchester with an average 150-grain flat base bullet at 150 yards, this produces 1000 ft/lbs of energy. For elk let’s use the old standard of a 30-06 firing an average 180-grain bullet at 400 yards which produces 1536 ft/lbs of energy. I know that there has been game shot at longer distances with each of these cartridges, but those are safe numbers.
The 30-30 Winchester and 30-06 Springfield have been used for big game hunting for over 100 years. There is a lot of data available on effective range of these two cartridges.
A 6.5 Creedmoor with a 143 grain ELD-X bullet going 2700 fps reaches the minimum energy to kill a deer at just over 750 yards, it reaches the minimum energy to kill an elk at 400 yards. A 300 Win Mag firing a 210 Berger VLD hunting bullet at 2900 fps will have enough energy to kill a deer at past 1200 yards and an elk at just past 900 yards. Obviously, these numbers only take into consideration the energy required and don’t consider whether the shooter is skilled enough or should be shooting those distances.
| Species | Max Range 6.5 Creedmoor | Max Range 300 Win Mag |
| Deer (Min Energy 1000 ft/lbs.) | 750 Yards | 1200 Yards |
| Elk (Min Energy 1500 ft/lbs.) | 400 Yards | 900 Yards |
These max ranges are based on the energy required and do not take into account the minimum velocity required to expand bullets. It also assumes an accurate shooting system (including the shooter) to make long-range first round hits. The 300 Win Mag clearly wins.
Does this mean that everyone should sell their 6.5 Creedmoor and get a 300 Win Mag? NO! I love the 6.5 Creedmoor and shoot it at long range all the time at targets. I would also not hesitate to take it hunting understanding its limitations. The 6.5 Creedmoor was designed to win accuracy contests shooting targets. The cartridge and chamber specs submitted to SAMMI are specified for match accuracy. There are a lot of over the counter ammunition and rifle options that are inherently accurate at long range. The 300 Win Mag was designed at a time when all manufacturers cared about was high velocity with light bullets so that they could advertise speed. Setting one up for long range accuracy means that you pretty much have to have a custom rifle built and hand load for it.
Links to the loads used
https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/6.5-creedmoor-147-gr-eld-match#!/
https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/6-5-creedmoor-143-gr-eld-x-precision-hunter#!/
For the hunting load, I assumed that because there is a factory 215 going 2886 fps that the 210 VLD could be pushed to 2900 fps, but it would have to be a hand load.
Thank you for pointing this out. The 6.5 Creedmoor is a great cartridge but people need to understand it’s limitations in the hunting world. I get so tired of reading about people using this cartridge for long range shooting of elk sized animals. I’m not saying it can’t be done but why would you when there are so many other cartridges that are so much more efficient.
Nothing beats my .223 colt hbar match with 77gr bthp. I have killed all game in NA (from paper elk to paper grizzly). With two 30 rd. Clips taped together, I never worry about 1st shot placement. 59 more where that came from! I’m pretty sure 60 shots will kill anything. Pretty sure. All kidding aside, 6.5 creed is good for the range, so is my .223. When I need a round that will put ANYTHING down humanely, I use the .300 win mag. It’s overkill for some things, brutal to shoot sometimes, but unless I SCREW UP MY SHOT, it will drop everything quickly and humanely. A sore shoulder is better than tracking for 2 hours because MY EGO told me to take a stupid shot with an unproven round. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Just my 2 cents in a time where most “2 cents” make “0 sense”. Happy shooting all.
What is a “clip” exactly? Oh you meant to say magazine.
A clip is a device to which cartridges are held in the correct sequence to load a firearms magazine. Smart ass.
If a person is shooting at animals that are 300 – 500 yds away they are either poor hunters or target shooters. I live in Alaska and have shot Brown Bear and moose with a bow. Maximum distance 50 yds. I was raised in the south hunting white tail and shot many with a bow, 357 pistol, and even a 12 ga shotgun. None over 100 yds. Coyote hunting in Kansas was done with a .22 rifle. We were proud when we could camouflage ourselves and call the game in really close.
I do have a 7mm mag that I use to shoot long distance targets. With targets I don’t have to worry about wounding animals at ridiculous distances. Since they are targets penetration, expansion etc don’t matter and the fact that I can retrieve the target I can see the placement and try to improve my reloading, etc..
If you see an animal at 500 yds try stalking closer. Great fun and exercise. Don’t use animals as targets just for bragging rights. Remember you are already shooting a defenseless animal so it is no great thing to kill one at great distances.
Sometimes you just don’t have the opportunity to stalk an animal to get as close as you’d like. For instance, when you hunt on many military installations you are put in a hunting stand with the instructions to not leave your stand except to field dress your kill! If you must track an animal, you must wait until your guide shows up to assist you! I have killed whitetails upwards of 600 yards with my Savage model 99f .308 many times. In Army basic training, with M14 .308, (7.62) I consistently hit pop-up targets from 500 to 700 meters with outa miss! The width and height of the pop-up target would have been equal to the Killzone on a whitetail deer, Or a man for that for that matter! If it worked good enough for a soldier, it is good enough for a hunter! I fired expert in the Army with both pistols and rifles, killed coyotes and prairie dogs out to 300 and more yards with a single shot. In all that time, I can count on one hand with three fingers missing, the number of times I had to use more than one shot to finish off an animal! I don’t believe in having or letting an animal suffer! But at the same time, I have had whitetail deer run for almost a minute with their hearts shot up! Happened with my first deer on Ft Hood, first time using my Savage mod. 99F .308 150 gr Speer bullet, no scope, distance 398 + yards, hit the deer square in the heart and split it into three pieces that were still connected at the botom by about one inch of flesh!
I own a lot of firearms…my two go to rifles are my wood stocked .270 Win…or my synthetic stocked .30-06. I hand load either to what ever suits what I’m hunting..but IMHO either one will kill anything on this continent, if you can shoot well..and hit where you AIM! That is really the bottom line no matter what you shoot..a clean one shot kill.
I am 65yrs young and have deer hunted since I was 12. getting older I cant take the big recoil anymore. So it is nice to have the knock down power of of a larger caliber without massive recoil. believe in the 6.5 cr. just as deadly without the massive recoil.
63 yr old hunter here. Up till you talked about ‘knock down power’ I was with you. If the gun does not knock you over with the recoil, it will not knock down whatever you shoot with it. You do know that right?
Then why does a .30-30 have the ability to drop all critters in the northern hemisphere with proper shot placement and soft recoil?
My grandfather, who died in 2012 at the age of 84, was 5 foot 3 and 120lbs. His Marlin 336 from 1962, put deer on the table nearly every winter, thanks to head shots on whitetail does. He preferred that rifle for one reason, low recoil.
He had a .303 British he regretted selling, but he was tired of carrying a heavy, loud, and hard recoiling rifle just to drop a couple deer every fall. He fired his brothers’ lever gun at the range and bought one when they got back to town.
It sits in my safe, like new, with a couple dings in the stock that add character, waiting for the next season to put another deer on the table. Same old Bushnell 4x scope that gets checked for zero a couple days before the opener. If I had to guess, it’s got around 500 rounds thru it since new, and I’m responsible for about 100.
It’s one of 3 firearms I’ll never sell.
I own both and both are great rounds but I find myself shooting the 6.5 more often as I get older. I’m only in my mid 40’s and am finally starting to realize bigger isn’t always better. I do enjoy dropping big hogs where they stand with the 300 though.
Major General Julian Sommerville Hatcher who was a major trouble shooter for the Army, despite being a Naval graduate, is the single most dedicated soldier who studied ballistics and weapons operation more than anyone with the exception of John Browning. He even developed the “Hatcher scale” for pistol ballistics with the first attempt to measure stopping power.
When he was a Colonel he had already found that the 6 mm bullet was the optimum caliber for all light weapons of the military, I have always deferred to his science and expertise in these matters. However, it is only now that we have such advanced bullet designs and powders to make his choice a reality. Personally I’m excited about owning a 6.5 CR someday, and I hope it will be my next long range sniper rifle choice. My Harbor Safety .50 cal HBMG is getting rough on my shoulder these days.
I have hunted with .300 wby, 30-06, .308, .270 win, 6.5 cm, 25-06, and .243 win. All of them seem to kill everything I shoot at pretty much equally as far as the game are concerned….. I’d suggest picking what you’re comfortable with shooting and go practice on accuracy.
I owned a 300 Win for all of 10 rounds. Having a couple of bad vertebrae in my neck already, i decided i didn’t need the recoil. Everyone else has covered the topic well, so I’ll just comment that the 6.5 of whatever flavor is good medicine for Texas whitetails. Starting with the 6.5 x 55, I’ve brought home truckloads of deer. My only complaint is factory ammo for the 6.5 CR seems too destructive. It doesn’t take a hole the size of your fist to stop a whitetail.
Thanks for the article. Long ago, I owned a Winchester 300 mag. Sure wish it was still in my gun locker. Since I sold it many, many years ago, I’m unable to make a comparison between the two rounds. Last year I became a 6.5 owner. I purchased a walnut Mossberg Patriot 6.5 w/ a Vortex scope for a Kentucky deer hunt. A terrific value. Zeroed at 100 yds., both deer dropped where they stood. One at 80 yds the other at 130. Since Elk isn’t on my itinerary, I have no worries.
To me what caliber you use is just personal preference. I like my .270. It does what its suppose to do. My 30-06 is an old-time standard. Its been a proven accurate and powerful round for hunting. It will take down humanely any game in the United States. The rifle I used the most for whitetail is my Marlin 30-30. When you are in a wooded area nothing beats it. I love shooting so I plan on having as many different calibers and setups as I can afford. In mountainous terrain your magnums are best. To compare is a good thing though. It allows you to know the limitations of each. Before choosing try as many different rounds as possible. Find what you are comfortable with. If you are afraid of the caliber you’ll never enjoy the hunt or be accurate.
7mm-08 one shot one Deer I will still keep my 300 ) (30-06 ) 308 7mm etc they all serve a purpose when when used for what they are design for But I will Swear on my 7mm-08
7MM-08, 140 grain, is my round
Before any 24 , 30 caliber round. Deer don’t run at all with this caliber. 300 is great for Elk.
I’ll join the age old arguments, even though the true answer is shot placement. For whitetail, the 25 cal. bullet +/- is optimal. However, I use a 308 win. as my go to gun. This covers the range I can reasonable shoot with ample energy, light recoil and acceptable accuracy for hunting. Ammo is affordable due to military use volume manufacturing and very common. If you are in nowhere Montana and learned you forgot your ammo, you can likely go to the corner gas station or tavern and they will sell you some. They may not have 6mm or 6.5 mm, probably 30-06 and 270 though.
As for knock down, I harvested a whitetail doe with the 308 at 75 yards with a perfect heart shot (Blew 1/3 of the heart away, and she ran 60 yards before going down. I doubt any caliber with that shot would have different results.
To me its simple if you like guns as much as me buy all you want and can afford.
They all have there place.
If it comes down to one gun only then up here I’ll stick to my 340.
There is something to say for the guy with one gun he probably knows how to use it.😊(its easier to memorize the trajectory for one.)
I will keep my .300`s thank you.
Why not compare it to a .264 winchester magnum? Much more comparable. Very similar to a 6.5 creedmore but much more velocity.
Read the first sentence of the article and you’ll understand why he’s making this comparison😉
The Weatherby Mark V 7MM mag has better ballistic than a 6.5 Creedmoor and is more comparable than the 300. I have all three and prefer the 7MM over 6.5 all day!
I would rather see a comparison between the 300win mag and the 300wby mag. For the everyday shooter the win mag is fine. But I would rather have the wby mag any day. I have both. And shoot both. But if I’m going for big game I leave the win mag at home. It just doesn’t have that reach out and touch you power that the wby. Does.
I’m not bad mouthing it. That’s just my opinion. And everyone has their own. So happy shooting
I’m a fan of the .300 WBY. It likes 200 gr bullets’. If I need more power I have a .416 WBY. The .300 WBY is more than enough power. I have two lever guns for short distance deer hunting. .300 Savage and 44.40 Winchester.
I enjoy them all. It’s goon to have the right tool for the job.
My brother recently got on the 6.5 Creedmore craze and purchased three of them, two Ruger Americans (one for his son) and one in the AR platform(silenced)!
He took two deer this season, from which he retrieved the bullets, with the Ruger American with two different 6.5 rounds and BOTH did exceptionally well, WOW, did they ever do their job!
Venison in the freezer!
WHAT is LOST on MOST everyone in this ridiculous argument is a little thing called, “Maximum Transfer of Energy” (well not so little)!
THAT is the ONLY thing that MATTERS!
How you get there is all dependent on the bullet size, type of bullet, and the energy behind said bullet at “target range”!
All that other nonsense about velocities, bullet expansion, foot pounds of energy don’t mean squat IF the bullet does NOT achieve maximum transfer of energy to the intended target! PERIOD!
It’s simple PHYSICS, once AGAIN!
A perfect example is the Nosler ballistic tip. Most all of the hogs I hit with the .270 ballistic tip dropped in their tracks from that explosive energy transfer.
Basically, I will shoot anything that goes BANG, while I do not have a 300 I do have most of the other firearms mentioned above, 30-06, SKS,.308,.303 Mod 99, 8mm, 5.56, and a 6.5 Creed. I shoot all of them and yes the 6.5 is easy to shoot. Here in CA most of our deer are small black tails and you’re using copper ammo, therefore lighter , flatter and faster. I bought some at a show that cranks 3k fps and groups great, recoil is low. At the other end is my M1 Garand in 30-06 thumping a 180gr at about 2800 fs (hand load) recoil is also low but that’s becuz it weighs 11 lbs. I’d hunt with either, and have, but I’m not happy toting the M1 all day, but most of our shots in CA are 200yds or less.
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HI TG–supposedly your load might damage the M-1 Rifle operating rod. The special .30-06 load for this rifle is a 150 grain bullet at around 2700 fps.
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John Bibb
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Thomas, please go and hunt in more than one area in Ca. I have deer hunted in Ca. for over 40 years and have had 3 to 400 yard desert shots on 300 lbs Mule deer to 50 yard shots in heavy woods on 140 lbs Black Tail. California has just about every environment for hunting. The only problem is, its California. Politicians and ignorant voters have destroyed this once an awesome state to live and raise a family, very sad. Anyway enough if that Good shooting and hunting to all!! Use what you have and make some memories!
3 gens’ here in California. Shinola to Shite. My dad was a vet’. We used to go just go just a couple miles inland and shoot all day.
These days, I NEVER let my lib/yuppie/beta neighbors even SEE a gun (all I have are bolt-actions, 308 and 6.5) for fear of being SWAT’d’.
I don’t understand all the hype over the 6.5. It was designed originally as a target round. To compare it to a .300 magnum is not logical to quote Spock of Star Trek. The .300 Magnum was designed to be a long range, bigger game (elk and larger) cartridge – good for a lot of African plains critters. To me, the .270 is a better bet for hunting than the 6.5. It was designed for hunting from the beginning – just a necked down .30-06 case. Lighter recoil and able to group different weight bullets into the same point of impact at 100 yards. If I wanted a shorter cartridge, there is the 7mm 08.
Exactly why he’s doing the comparison: to debunk “gun store guru” myths that the two are equivalent
The 6.5 creedmoor was enitially designed around target shooting but when it was seen to be a dead on sub moa round hornady picked it up and made it easily one of the deadliest common rounds on the market. The fact that it was created for accuracy just made the hunting rounds that much better. Designing a bullet around hunting has a different outcome, you worry about knockdown then try to get it close to a moa bullet as possible. The creedmoor was the opposite, they made a round that can stack bullets so then they just took that shape and put a ballistic tip or a soft lead tip on it and made a stupidly accurate hunting round. People that shoot the 6.5 literally say its hard to miss with it. It makes a harder shot easier, whether its confidence or just the stackable performance of the bullet doing its job. You can almost mess up and still hit the target
Yes + the 6.5×55 has killed everything on the planet for 117yrs.
DITTO!
DITTO ON THE 6.5X55 AND DONT FORGET THE 7X57 SAME!!!
Really can’t stand to hear, “it will kill anything in the North American continent. My .22 rimfire is capable of killing anything on the continent with the right placement (in the eye) at the right distance (2”). If I am hunting elk, grizzly, moose, mountain goat, etc. at 800 – 1,50 yards, the smart choice IS the 300 Win Mag. Ballistic coefficient (placement) being nearly the same, energy (mass, velocity) is what matters at hunting game at long distance. Obviously, you have to be skilled enough to use the tool effectively. That’s with any tool. If you don’t have the skills to use optics and manage your loads stick with close range and your 6.5 Creedmore. Be careful, a wounded Grizzly does have a bit of a temper! I’ll take my chances with the 300 Win Mag and some distance…
The new caliber trend lost it’s charm for me decades ago. Very simply put……It’s all been done before. I own the 6.5 Swede, 6.5 Jap, 6.5 Mann. plus many of the magnum calibers. But at 62, My days of 300 + yard shots are over unless off a rest. Find a capable caliber, The one you shoot well, And stick with it. In a practical application, That works for you. I’m speaking of hunting here. And on any given game, I go for heavier as opposed to lighter calibers, To make a clean one shot kill. Without completely destroying the carcass of the animal. (meatcutter and processor)
If the 6.5 Creedmoor does it for you? Go for it. But do some research on existing calibers, That were developed near a 100 years ago, And you might find much of the hoopla ? Is pointless.
I have never used a 6.5 Creedmore, but shot a 300 magnum, fast super, accurate, and deadly. In my opinion the best reason to own a 300 is that its 30 caliber. If you hand your own ammo, you have an unlimited choice in bullet weight and design. 300 brass and bullets are easy to find, 6.5 Creedmoor I don’t know. I guess if I owned a 6.5, I have as much as I needed. I don’t object to using either caliber, they both serve their purpose and satisfy their owners.
The whole point of higher BC calibers is improved long range performance. Typically going with a 150 grain 30/06 or .308 traveling at service rifle velocity of 2800fps as the standard, you can take a 7mm or 6.5 of around 140 grains and shoot similar trajectory with less velocity, muzzle blast and recoil. That is appealing to many shooters. Of course you can get the same BC with a 220 grain 30cal. It’s just a noisier, more punishing, and more expensive experience.
A 6.5 Creedmoor was never intended to be a 300 win mag. It is more efficient than 30 cal cartridges of similar bullet weights though.
well spoken
The whole point of higher BC calibers is improved long range performance. Typically going with a 150 grain 30/06 or .308 traveling at service rifle velocity of 2800fps as the standard, you can take a 7mm or 6.5 of around 140 grains and shoot similar trajectory with less velocity, muzzle blast and recoil. That is appealing to many shooters. Of course you can get the same BC with a 220 grain 30cal. It’s just a noisier, more punishing, and more expensive experience.
Did you ever hear of the 6.5 Gibbs? As I recall, it got close to 3100 fps with a 139 gr. Sierra (Match King I think). I had one built with a 722 Rem action and a Shielen 24″ barrel. Low recoil and it would really reach out there. I also had an old model 70 Winchester in .264. The 6.5 Gibbs was extremely accurate. Unfortunately, someone stole it. I’ll bet they had a hell of a time finding ammo for it.
You don’t hear too much these days of Rocky Gibbs Wildcats. I still have my 30 Gibbs, and it did take awhile to learn how to fire form the cases. It is a power house over the standard 30-06 that is it’s parent. Like you said, someone will have quite a time figuring out it looks funny not knowing what it is. I found a case full of 4831 some where around 60 grains, with a 180 grain bullets are nice load. Velocity is somewhere around 2900 fps. Sorry some low life got into your personal things.
I have two huge gun safes crammed with everything from .22 to .416, 99% are safe queens. I’ve been hunting for over 60 years in the US, Mexico and Canada and have three go to rifles for anything I ever care to hunt. My all time favorite is my custom built 220 Swift which has killed a truck load of white tails that never took a step after the shot. For mulies my Browning B78 in 2506 is the perfect ticket and my custom 3006 on a Remington 700 action will take down anything on the continent. I also have a custom built 300 WM which I never use due to the recoil and rediculous overkill for most NA game. The 3006 will do anything the 300 will and is much easier on the shoulder, ears and wallet!
Enjoy the insane asylum.
I have to agree with you. I had a 300 Win mag once. Could not tell it killed any farther or any better nor was any more accurate than my 30-06 so I got rid of it. It was just louder, cost more to shoot, and kicked more. I finished my hunting carrier last season after 70 seasons in the woods and more kills than I can remember. I never got the magnum bug nor the fad caliber bug as I found the standard tried and true rounds always worked for me. Never had any use for rounds less than .277 or .284. And I have made shots at distances that most would not try.
I, like the person who own too many rifles, and of the 30 plus guns that I own, the most accurate is my 280. But why should one care as the location of the bullet on the animal is what counts. What difference is it if the bullet is 1/2 inch more accurate at 100 yards than your other guns? Most game is killed less than 50 yards away.
It is misleading to talk about energy levels as a way of determining killing power on big game. A bullet needs to penetrate to where the killing takes place. A .220 Swift has lots of energy, but you would not want to use it hunting big game. For years the credit for the largest Elk ever shot went to the .30-40 Krag. My P.H. in South Africa was a big believer in big and slow as the way to go. A heavily constructed bullet getting through the heart or brain will kill reliably. Just my perspective. ps: The 156 gr. 6.5×55 will kill anything on the planet.
The Owners themselves of 6.5 have talked me right out of the 6.5. If I got one I doubt I could generate the man size stories that make the 6.5 the greatest round ever made for squirrels to elephants from 25 meters to 5000.
Funniest look I get from them is when I asked them if they ever heard of the 6.5×55. The vast majority of them think the caliber had been hidden from man by the shooting gods only to be dropped on them in 2007.
Me I love my 308 7.62 and the challenges it presents. I want a round that makes me work for success not hands it to me for just buying the latest fad.
However I must admit as I age I am convinced that my next build that will be started this year will be a 7mm08 it will remove some of the punishment from the shooting and give me a true 1200yd. Round.
One other thing to consider: throat erosion. The 6.5 creedmoor suffers more erosion faster than the 300 winmag. Longer barrel life for 300 vs 6.5.
I will use my “Ole Wood Chopper” that’s been around since 1958. You wonder what I’m talking about???? Well it’s the 264 Win Mag I have used it sine 1964 and would not trade it for the little 6.5 Creedmoor, or big brother the 300 Wing Mag. Now anything they can do the 264 Win Mag is up to the challenge The Nosler Trophy Grade ammo is the real ticket, and comes in several Bullet sizes and loads. My favorite is the 130 Grain Nosler . Unless I’m shooting “Ole Grizz” or his Big Brother “Brownie” Those rascals require something bigger than either one of the calibers listed in this article. Just to let you folks know when the 264 was introduced in 1958 it was considered the first long range rifle of it’s day. I still have some ‘OLD” Winchester ammo which was “Factory Loaded” at 3200 Ft (muzzle) , and 3180 FT (energy) Now that’s awful hard to beat!!! The 100 grain load would scare most better to death, 3800 Ft (muzzle)!!!!!!!!!!! Any how you can have the Creedmoor or big brother as far as this ole fart is concerned remember boys ” Windage and Elevation”
I don’t hunt, or I would probably choose the 300 Win Mag. There’s nothing like shooting steel at long ranges with a 6.5 and basically being your own spotter since the recoil is so low. Not to mention that you can shoot that thing all day long and your shoulder has no idea you were even at the range. Again, for its intended purpose, the 6.5 is an excellent choice.
THE PROBLEM WITH RECOIL WHEN HUNTING IS THAT YOU CAN’T GET BACK THAT FIRST SHOT! THE FIRST SHOT WHEN HUNTING, IS ALSO INTENDED TO BE YOUR LAST SHOT! THE RECOIL CAN SPOIL AN EASY SHOT AND CAUSE YOU TO MISS. SHOOTING A LOW RECOIL RD MAKES THAT FIRST SHOT COUNT EVERY TIME! ME PERSONALLY, I WOULD SHOOT AN SKS 7.62X39MM BECAUSE IT HAS GOOD KNOCK DOWN POWER, YOU CAN SHOOT IT WITH ACCURACY UP TO ABOUT 600 YARDS, AND IT HAS THE RECOIL OF A .22 RIFLE. YOU HAVE TO BE FAMILIAR WITH YOUR HUNTING AREA BEFORE YOU GO HUNTING. THAT WAY YOU KNOW HOW FAR YOUR SHOTS WILL BE, AND THE BEST LOCATIONS TO SHOOT FROM. KNOWING THIS, YOU CAN DETERMINE HOW MUCH GUN YOU NEED TO KILL YOUR PREY. IF YOU ARE AT HIGH ELEVATIONS YOU CAN EXTEND THE EFFECTIVE RANGE OF YOUR RDS. A 7MM REM MAG HAS A LOT OF RECOIL, AND YOU CAN EASILY MISS WITH IT! YOU HAVE TO GET USED TO THE RECOIL BEFORE YOU GO HUNTING. IF YOU KNOW THAT YOUR SHOTS ARE GOING TO BE UNDER 500 YDS, GO WITH THE LOW RECOIL GUN. IF YOU KNOW THAT YOUR SHOTS WILL BE UNDER 400 YDS, THEN CONSIDER AN SKS. 122 GR HP, 124 SP, 154 GR SP RDS WILL TAKE DOWN DEER IN THEIR TRACKS WHILE RUNNING. I WOULD TRY THE 154 GRN SP RD FOR AN ELK UP TO 400 YDS, AT A HIGH ELEVATION..
Your caps lock button is on.
and youre full of it too – hitting a running deer or stationary deer with an SKS at 500yds… Wow that’d be some feat! Carlos H maybe could do that, but for the rest of us, that’s dreaming.
I shot a raccoon walking across a plowed field in MN with a Rem. .243 at 800 yards. One shot, kinda lucky? I could break a barb wire fence at 200 yards with that rifle. But I was a Marine marksmanship instructor. These days my, high end glass, “sniper” rifle is a 30.06.
Maybe he’s just as good a shot as Carlos H! I started shooting a Remington model 28 .22 semi-auto when I was 8 years old, hardly ever used the sight, just barrel alignment. I could hit a running jackrabbit at 100 yards easily, and took more ducks and pheasants with that ,22 than my brother and his friend did with 12 gauge shotguns! Made them madder than hell!
Recoil happens AFTER the shot so your argument that heavy recoil will spoil that all-important first shot just means that either you don’t know how to shoot properly, or you are so dainty and afraid of that recoil that it has psyched you out of your pants before you have even fired.
I hate to argue with someone who feels so strongly about their position that they type in all caps, but as someone who grew up hunting with whatever Dad handed me, I believe you’re wrong.
I do understand that you probably mean “anticipated recoil” rather than recoil because even as a little boy shooting guns that were too big for me, I never felt that recoil until after the shot.
Haha. I love my AK and would be my first choice for shtf gun in a city, jungle or close quarters area. Never thought of it being accurate to 600 yds. Reliable, simple, rugged, yes. What kind of groups are you getting at 100 yds, 300 yds, etc… What weapon platform are you using?
Depends what AK variant you are using. I hit wild dogs at 300 to 600 meters all the time with my Valmet 7.62x39mm rifle. It was the most solidly built weapon I’ve owned. And I was using open sights, BTW.
I had a friend that could polish off prairie dogs at distances out to 300 yards, with a scope; but an SKS is a lot more solidly built than most AKs.
Lets compare bullets for big game.The Berger 215 is not a good bullet for elk.People will continue to use it though.It is a match bullet built for a higher b.c. not intended to be used on elk.The 147 gr eld is a match bullet not designed to be used on elk.Lets compare hunting bullets and the gap will be greater between them.And what muzzle energy have you deemed to be enough for elk?
The 215 is a great bullet for Elk, I would not hesitate to shoot an Elk with it. I some people that Kill big animals with them. the one has shot several Alaska Brown Bear with them. Just don’t shoot them in the shoulder
BS. I shoot 220 and heavier bullets in my .300WM all the time. It’s a perfect comparison between both rounds on a level playing field. Put any bullet you want in the .300 and it still whips the Creedmoor’s ass at KE.
I’m glad to see an article finally putting that silly comparison to rest.
I’ve no experience with the 6.5 with the exception of reading online articles as this & others. Thank-you for Your excellent comparison between the technical points of each round. I’m sure any true hunter will take into account personal limitations as well as optics & firearm being used. I feel a 6.5 is a target load for the range & the 300 is the first choice of ethical hunters.
I own both. The 6.5 is nice as a range round. Low recoil so you can spot for yourself. My 300 Win Mag is a bit of a thumper even in a target configuration.
About the same as my 338 Lapua. I have a thing for long range shooting . If I had to take a shot on an animal the 300 would be my choice.
Looks like the US has finally realized the utility of the 6.5 bullet. I’ve been shooting various 6.5’s for years. Today I have rifles in 6.5×55, 6.5×54 Mannlicher/Schoenauer, 260 Remington, and 264 Win Mag. The 6.5 Creedmoor is probably a good cartridge, but it is so close to the 260 I have to wonder why it was ever made. Too bad the gun writers didn’t give the 260 the press they gave the 6.5 Creedmoor.
I completely agree, the .260 Rem will always have the edge over the 6.5 Cre…
Marketing and the wider use of social media, plus Remington’s parent company dropped the ball a long time ago for customer relations.
Yaa, I think you should have compared it to a 180 gn. bullet. I can’t even imagine shooting a 215 gn. slug at that velocity, would be murder on the body. I’m pretty sure the bolt wouldn’t open.
Why miss lead the public.
The 6.5 CM is not an Elk Gun. Most that have hunted these animals a lifetime would agree.
The Momentum of lager bullets you leave out. The limits you speak of most hunters who would think their wouldbe sniper rifle will get that Elk.
You for sure outlined the details of what this fine long range target round, the 6.5 was built for.
At the same time to use the highest BC for a Hunting round measurement seems a bit out of sorts as well. The 180gr. 300win @ 2900-3000fps. load is the most popular Elk load going because at realistic, for most Hunters and conditions, it works. Bullet choices are also key, the Constitution and construction of “Big Game, “like Elk” getter’s” require much more than just hitting an animal. Why, back in the day, Nosler Partitions and now Barns X-bullets, Lead the way. The full sized exit wound with a bone bashing and hydrostatic shock from a large bore, like a .30 cal. Is much more likely to get the human kill. To shoot any animal beyond the “Field” conditions capability is not even addressed. Sir, as one who really appreciates your writing, I just suggest that 90% of Hunters don’t spend the time on Range to shoot 400 yard kill shots on Elk. Your writing stirs, low skilled and inexperienced to take shots out of their skill level. This leaves animals suffering, and gives the antigunners another reason to hate us.
Please leave all with the facts that “training and experience”, to a high standard is the only way to even think about a 400yd shot on an Elk with most any quality Big game cartridge. 900yrds. 99% should never even think about taking. It can be accomplished but that does not mean it is good advise.
Why miss lead the public.
The 6.5 CM is not an Elk Gun. Most that have hunted these animals a lifetime would agree.
The Momentum of lager bullets you leave out. The limits you speak of most hunters who would think their wouldbe sniper rifle will get that Elk.
You for sure outlined the details of what this fine long range target round, the 6.5 was built for.
At the same time to use the highest BC for a Hunting round measurement seems a bit out of sorts as well. The 180gr. 300win @ 2900-3000fps. load is the most popular Elk load going because at realistic, for most Hunters and conditions, it works. Bullet choices are also key, the Constitution and construction of “Big Game, “like Elk” getter’s” require much more than just hitting an animal. Why, back in the day, Nosler Partitions and now Barns X-bullets, Lead the way. The full sized exit wound with a bone bashing and hydrostatic shock from a large bore, like a .30 cal. Is much more likely to get the human kill. To shoot any animal beyond the “Field” conditions capability is not even addressed. Sir, as one who really appreciates your writing, I just suggest that 90% of Hunters don’t spend the time on Range to shoot 400 yard kill shots on Elk. Your writing stirs, low skilled and inexperienced to take shots out of their skill level. This leaves animals suffering, and gives the antigunners another reason to hate us.
Please leave all with the facts that “training and experience”, to a high standard is the only way to even think about a 400yd shot on an Elk with most any quality Big game cartridge. 900yrds. 99% should never even think about taking. It can be accomplished but that does not mean it is good advise.
I think the writer (David) did a good job both literally and scientifically explaining the very complaints you mention. He set a foundation of parameters to compare the two rounds and was very careful not to suggest that long range shots were recommended by skilled or unskilled shooters per the limitations of both rounds. I think he did a very fair comparison. Maybe we read different articles.
6.5 – Boring. zzzzzzz
Excellent article. At the preface for the ‘gun counter talk’, my intial thought was. ” How much energy on target do you need at distance?”. And, the science spoke for itself.
I have shot both but for over20 years I have used a 300win mag I am sold on it
Excellent comparison article. I respect factual articles that show the numbers. I like both platforms at the range. If I am hunting in Wyoming or Montana, my 700 Remington in 300 Winchester Magnum is the go to rifle.
Bin shooting 300 for many years at 300 to 400 yards for whitetail.Of course I sand bag.understand your rifle and what it can do.i reload 165gr seirra spitzer BT and don’t think one went more than 30yrds.(wv).
Thanks for the great side-by-side comparison, David. It was for this reason that I purchased the Weatherby Mark V 6.5-300. It has the accuracy of the 6.5 Creedmoor and the power of the 300 Win Mag… a nice combination! Please consider publishing a comparison of the 6.5–300 WBY with the 300 Win Mag.
Man, 6.5-300…. does Weatherby include a new barrel in each box of ammunition? 😀
I’m joking of course, but from what I understand a combination of small bore and big powder/high velocity leads to shorter barrel life and I’m curious how real a concern that is for the hunter and occasional paper-puncher.
One of the reports suggested that the Krieger barrel was good for 4000 rounds or so. At $3/round, that will be a long way off… most likely after I am dead and buried!
You lost it when you went to a 215 gr bullet.
What did he lose? I’m not sure what you mean.
Where he lost it for me is trying to compare 2 different weight bullets. As Major AW Oliver says above. Most people don’t shoot 215 gr. ammo out of a 300 Win … I myself stick to a 185gr which has a higher muzzle vel. as well as flatter trajectory. If you compare apples to apples and not watermelons and bananas here you will see the 300 is far superior to the 6.5 creedmoor. Yes I have both and love shooting them for different things. But to replace the 300 with a 6.5 or even suggest they are similar is ludicrous.