The start-up firm Atlas Arms is working on an all-new, different kind of ammo that combines hollow point fragmentation and expansion along with a level of barrier-blindness capable of defeating some kinds of modern armor.
Called the “Dagny Dagger,” the first round in development will be for 9mm Luger handguns and carbines. What makes the Dagger round so special is that it does not qualify as “armor-piercing” ammo, and it isn’t subject to many of those regulations in the U.S.
Atlas Arms achieves this by using alloys and components that would otherwise make it “armor piercing” by those standards. The Dagger has a open-tipped jacket that fragments and expands on impact with a solid core for deep penetration.
The Dagny Dagger was fully crowd-sourced for initial development and will be open-sourced, including Ghost Gunner code, for all ammo makers to use. It’s also a simple design that can be “home-manufactured” by shooting enthusiasts, hobby reloaders, and the like.
“The first Atlas Arms concept in development, the Dagny Dagger project is developing a new type of legally-unrestricted handgun ammunition which in 9mm Luger is able to penetrate all soft armor and perhaps some rifle-rated hard armor,” said Atlas Arms. “This will allow citizens the first legal access to armor-penetrating ammunition since 1986.”
The Atlas team plans to develop Dagger projectiles for other cartridges as well, including .40 S&W, 10mm Auto, 5.56 NATO, .300 AAC Blackout and .308 Winchester. They believe 5.7x28mm may be possible, but probably not slower, heavier cartridges like .45 ACP, although they aren’t completely ruling it out.
“While manufacturing or importing ‘armor-piercing ammunition’ remains illegal, the Dagny Dagger escapes these criteria by use of obscure alloys,” they said. “To ensure federal legality, we have retained a well-respected firearms attorney. Local laws vary, but the Dagger is legal for individuals to manufacture and possess in most of the 50 states.”
See Also: UK Man Makes Compliant Belt-Fed Lever-Action .44 Magnum Bullpup
The Atlas Arms team has met and exceeded the amount of fundraising needed for the “initial prototyping, testing equipment and materials, and legal counsel,” as well as “mass-manufacturing methods and equipment for a manufacturing operation to fill demand and fund continuing research and development efforts.”
They are continuing to accept donations from private backers and anyone willing to part with $100 or more will get advanced access to the first batch of production ammo. Pricing is expected to start around $2 to $3 per round, less for loaders, with availability hopefully in six months, early- to mid-2021.
For more information about the Dagny Dagger, Atlas Arms and a chance to get in line for the initial release, head over to Gun Dynamics, the crowd-sourcing page.
I back the blue. I am US Navy retired & was an Escambia County Deputy Sherrif. 99% of my fellow officers are pro 2A. 99% of my fellow officers will not take guns away from law-abiding citizens because of liberal legislation. We also do NOT want to be shot by amor piercing ammo. I agree that making it illegal is not the answer. Citizens have as much right to protection as LEO’S do. I personally do not use amor piercing ammo as a civilian but I (may) or (may not) have some at my disposal for the unlikely event of a domestic terrorist attack in my area or worse. BTW, my Henry 30 – 30 with Buffalo Bore ammo will do the job without all the modification bullshit that my or may not be as effective as the posters say it is. Let’s all stick together & remember that we are pro 2A & sometimes we may disagree on a particular point. At the end of the day, the 2A was written to protect us from our Government or domestic terrorism an, God help them, foreign terrorists if they are found on American soil. Although not a part of the 2A, my oath of enlisted never expires. I will defend my country against all enemies both foreign & domestic. Thanks for letting me say my piece. Any keyboard Warriors that want to pontificate rude or misleading comments, feel free. We all see through your cowardism & motivation. You’re not fooling anyone here.
They have been asking for money for this project for two years.
Just buy some normal hollowpoints, a little locktight or cement, and tungsten electrodes for a TIG welder that are the correct hardness.
What? No one ever thought of that before?
Level lV armour dosen’t even stand a chance when fired from a banshee 200 9mm using Underwood extream penetrator +p+ moving at 2200+ fps. Just drill a small hole in it and drop in a sharpened tungsten tip.
Easy peasy.
Now… I’m not saying I have actually done this, as that would not be legal (even though technically it is legal), but I just wanted to give readers a little food for thought.
Because we all know that when society breaks down the LAW no longer applies.
Do what you have to in order to be prepared to protect yourself and your loved ones.
Freemen will always find a way to “discipline” tyrants.
There are about 800k LEOs in the US, with about 320M total people. So, 0.24% of the population is an LEO. The other 99.76% therefore are not. If you are opposed to this ammunition because of the risk it may pose, then you are opposed to any form of ammunition ever. Because for very LEO you think is put at added risk by this, there are over 400 other people who are put at risk by this and every other projectile that exists.
Plus, there isn’t an LEO in the world that spends more time in body armor than out of it, so every person in the world is vulnerable to all forms of ammo for more hours, days, weeks, months, and years of their life then they are at reduced risk to some forms of ammo from some platforms under some circumstances targeting some parts of their person.
I bet the people who don’t want this in the hands of the public wouldn’t have a problem with this being duty ammo.
That’s pretty good
I support this 100%, and am contributing. bad guys wear armor and this product is definitely needed. All the negative nancy’s against this are just anti gun shills.
All this will do is change the law so that this particular round can’t qualify. And if we are unlucky the new law will be an opportunity to have greater restrictions we don’t want. Happened to “bump” stocks, an obvious effort to circumvent machine gun laws.
I am against anything that will put law enforcement such as myself at risk. I also believe that 2A gives us the right to own such items to protect ourselves from the Government in the case that it becomes tyrannical. It also helps to protect us from outside incursion which is a real threat if things begin to break down here. Many people gave their lives to ensure our freedom, we must honor that by protecting that which they died to protect. The cost of freedom is that you will always be at risk from those that oppose it. I would rather ba at risk and have my freedom.
Those that sacrifice LIBERTY for security have neither.
Best post lately. Now, THAT’S an American attitude. Sua Sponte Mark.
If I had $60k to blow, he’d have it at this very moment…. Maybe even more.
If AP is legal for the government, it should be legal for its citizens. After all, if you believe that the government IS the people, then it should be legal already.
And by the way, bad guys already have access to body armor. Its only right we have the ability to protect ourselves from them.
The Geco “action safety ammo” or BAT as it was called basically did the same thing without the hoopla.
This is an idiotic concept and should in no way be promoted by gunsamerica. The only use of this ammo will be to injury and kill LEOs. This type of crap is why the gun community is constantly under attack. Thanks for contributing to continued attacks on responsible gun owners.
Damn right. Was gonna say the same thing.
Which is exactly why we need them.
“The only use of this…will be to injury and kill LEOs.” <– Again, this is the same argument used by gun controllers. I'd like to say I'm surprised that so many otherwise pro-gun folks have been co-opted by the anti-gun mafia and are using their arguments for a self-serving purpose, but I'm not. Insight & thoughtful deliberation are conspicuous victims in this age of social media, sound-bite discourse.
Let's all drop the pretense and be honest. Most of those who object to the availability of this munition are law enforcement and do so for a rational but self-serving reason: it may mitigate an advantage they currently enjoy. That's fine. However, you cannot say, "I support the 2nd Amendment" and simultaneously say, "I support preserving an advantage for agents of the government." Those two statements are diametrical. If you don't like the prospect of the availability of this ammo then say that and be honest about what it means – you support the 2nd Amendment except when you don't like what it means. Just realize you're aligning yourself with every other "pro-2A" gun control advocate when you do so.
Wrong. Acquiesce like you suggest is how we got NFA and the ’89 ban. We should have what a militia would need. If the enemy wears armor, we need armor piecing rounds right?
Bad guys buy body armor too.
I found the fudd!
Never mind the fact that the entire purpose of the second amendment is to fight and kill cops and soldiers, the very enforcement arms of the government.
I’m buying some.
Do you think that body armor is only owned and bought by the police ? It is sold on line and anybody can buy it so saying it is or will be for the bad guy to use on the police only is a moot point..Don’t mean to pop your bubble or argue but your point is very inaccurate .
Really – can you cite any recent reports of US civilians having to defend themselves from perps wearing body armor? Let’s talk reality here and not some hypothetical hero fantasy.
Those perps are the boys and blue and they must be regulated and kept in line like anyone else. The government should fear the people,not the other way around. Bootlickers like you would not understand. This is why the 2A is so important. It’s to protect us from TYRANNY.
And keyboard commandos like you fantasize about what a hero you would be if only you could move out of your parent’s basement.
Pro Tip: Reverting to ad hominem attacks is a conspicuous sign of intellectual laziness at best and the fall back position of most gun control advocates.
You’ve posted enough comments now for everyone to know you’re pro-gun until you’re not. Just own it.
Bootlicker huh?
Let me guess, you’re a “freedom fighter” on the front lines, protecting us all from Tyranny (probably the video game variety) from your parent’s basement. It’s especially reassuring to know that YOU are keeping the LEO community “In line”. LMAO 😂
Yes, actually I can. I have over 1300 reports of accounts where personal body armor was used by criminal elements in an engagement situation against law enforcement officials. I also have 876 reports where body armor was used in home invasion situations. Do you want me to list all of them here? Because, I can.
876 reports in a country of 330 million people . Even assuming the accounts are accurate and they all occurred in 1 year, care to figure the statistical likelihood of you or anyone else having to defend themselves in this situation? Another BS argument.
Exactly…
What are you thinking
Obscure alloy? Unobtanium, only mined in Whatchacallistan? What’s it going to cost?
Did you read the article? $2 to$3 a round.
Ah, NO. Period.
I’m for anyone who isn’t a criminal possessing any firearm they choose. I’m also for people who aren’t criminal possessing any amount of ammunition they choose. I’m for possession and use of suppressors, backyard ranges as long as they’re safe and don’t endanger the neighbors.
I’m almost speechless when it comes to the product. I know, a “real” pro-Second Amendment person doesn’t support ANY restrictions whatsoever. I get it. I also know we aren’t in favor of any need-based restrictions, banning a gun because of how it looks, etc. I get it. I really do. But this is going beyond all that. This is self-destructive. It’s something that can be used against US. Not “just” the police, us. Every one of us. You and me. This is like telling an adversary how to “get us.” No one would be safe. Ever. Anywhere.
I’m amazed how the inventor doesn’t realize this. I sure did, as soon as I saw it’s advertised capabilities.
Bash me if you want, but first, just think about it. We all want superior firepower for ourselves. We all want to have the equipment we deem necessary to protect ourselves. This thing renders all that as useless.
Just think about it. That’s all.
Same argument gets used for banning guns. Think about it.
Any hunting rifle, 30.30, etc. will do the same thing
Well, there wasn’t an issue with bump stocks and then they were killed (yes, its still in the Courts). Point is BFSs were not in the definition of “machunegun” but the were added and BANNED quickly. AP is really a descriptor of intended purpose and further identifies what construction and materials constitute a AP projectile, cartridge.
YOU tell the World what your building and how you intend to circumvent existing Law. Hmmm. Seem like an invitation for DOJ/BATFE to stick their nose in your business. If you succeed they will just add the few words of your AP magic bean composition to the others and BAN it also.
If that happens you better be a good salesman so GOV, Agencies, Mill maybe LE buy your new Beans because the civ market will be closed.
They stopped BFS, straight rifling and they’re attacking pistol braces right now! The Feds and States have well entrenched anti-gun lapdogs at all Levels. We couldn’t get a damn thing done when WE had POTUS, the House and Senate due to infighting and RINO’s. Crap isn’t going to change in our favor when Gov administrative oversight gets away with writing Law uncontested by Congress (whose Power DOJ/BATFE stole). Unfortunately your whole Crowd Fund won’t be enought to support a legal battle with ATF/DOJ.
You shoud have described the projectile as Hollow Point Ball Ammo that expands, sheds and penetrates. Period! “Later” you can shout to the hills what testing shows. ATF loves to use the phrases “as originally designed” and “designed for” YOU already told them AP and they will kill ir referencing your words and their Law.
I love everything that goes BANG and innovations to new stuff. I wish you success but doubt you will get this past the Feds.
Exactly…
What are you thinking
This is the realistic outcome of this endeavour. You can’t advertise to the ATF how you’re going to skirt the law and not expect them to just rewrite the definition of Armour Piercing.
If they’re lucky they’ll get a chance to get the files out before they’re shutdown. However, getting caught with it will be a felony I’m sure.
I have to agree with him on this one. Remember with the DOJ and ATF it’s all about intended use. An arm brace is only a brace if it is designed for and intended to be used as a stabilizer or strapped to your arm, otherwise it’s a stock. Hopefully your company succeeds but I would definitely look at other type of ammo manufacturing in case this one gets stuck in the course and it can for many many years.
Whats the purpose of such a round other than to kill good good guys. I can see no legitimate civilian need for this round. You can bet the DOJ will stop these from sale because they will most certainly used against cops.
Yes the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. But when firearm
ammo give bad guys an advantage over cops, and good guy civilians I question its need for general distribution
Bad guys wear body armor, too.
Nice try. Care to guess how many LEOs will be injured or killed with this crap vs “ bad guys with body armor”?
Fuck the cops! they don’t hesitate to KILL US…. WHY SHOULD WE?! I have a meth house that ABUSES AND SELLS METH five feet from my double car garage and the cops KNOW and have done NOOOOOOOOOTHING to stop it! So either their in on it, or DON’T GIVE A SHiT ABOUT THE LAW… EITHER WAY, FUCK EM!!!!!! Cops are birches that don’t even park their cars legally and walk into stores, restaurants, etcetera parking right on the red painted line in the curb and if we do that ONCE we’d have tickets or worse FIRST TIME, THEY DO IT EVERY TIME! They shoot a MAX of two hundred and fifty rounds to get their “good to go” in police academies across the country and THINK they are more skilled than all of us… NOT ME! Since this moron went on I’d bet every platform he could to get free money and said AP it’ll never ever pass and like others have said they’ll just add what ever material they used to the already existing “no list!” And for anyone whispering like my comments I could care less what you think than I do the worthless cops who just sit in the side of the road one facing north and the other facing south as they do NOTHING AND TALK INSIDE THEIR ALWAYS RUNNING AC FILLED CARS! IF YOU DON’T have a KNOWN METH HOUSE RIGHT NEXT TO YOURS that the police have been told at LEAST TEN TIMES BY ME AND MANY MANY OTHERS THEN SHIT THE FUCK UP! NEVER MET ONE COP WHO CARES ABOUT SHIT EXCEPT HIS QUOTA AND DOING AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE TO GET THAT CHECK. .. NOT ONE OR I WOULDN’T HAVE A METH HOUSE RIGHT NEXT DOOR!!!!! COPS DONT EVEN SHOW UP 85% Of the time and it’s the LAW… SO AGAIN FUCK SO CALLED LAW NON ENFORCEMENT! DON’T GET TO CHOOOOOOOSE WHICH LAWS THEY WAAAANT TO ENFORCE!!!!!! BITCHES!
Who cares, those criminals behind the badge need every advantage they have negated.
“I can see no legitimate civilian need for this round.” <– Same argument gets used for banning guns.
All of you Internet academics need to remember the sole purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to give citizens the wherewithal to protect themselves from a tyrannical government. This product suits that as much as any. If you're a LEO and your body armor becomes less effective that is unfortunate. But your safety is not a qualified limit on individual rights.
As an ex-cop shot in the line of duty, The vest saved me. In 15 years I only saw 2 turds with armor and they stole it in burglaries of cop homes. This ammo is a stupid idea. How long before Antifa pukes will be gunning down cops?