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We’re gun guys. As such, we’ve been closely following the events in Ferguson. As the conditions deteriorate, more and more innocent Americans are being victimized by opportunistic thieves, who have no connection to the root of the protests. When cars show up in neighborhoods with the license plates already removed…well, it seems understandable that some store owners are standing up to protect what is rightfully theirs.
The 590 is simple, and incredibly reliable.
1. 870/590
Let’s start with the traditional option. The pump shotgun is timeless. The typical defensive 12 gauge is instantly recognizable, incredibly versatile, and offers varying degrees of lethality. From high-brass buck shot, to bean bags, the pump can do it all.
The two that will be most readily available will be the Mossberg 500s and the Remington 870s. If I had time to plan, I’d find a Mossberg 590. A 590 with a light and a bayonet is a mean option for close quarters combat. And that’s really what we’re talking about.
The Tavor even has a 9mm conversion kit now that turns the rifle into a pistol caliber carbine.
2. The Tavor
There will be those who immediately reach for the 5.56. As a fan of the AR platform, I get it. If I’m going to be standing in front of my store, or inside it, I think I’d go for the Tavor. The bullpup design offers incredible maneuverability without sacrificing any power.
There is a point where that power could be a liability, though, as the 5.56 or .223 round will carry well beyond its intended short range target. Collateral damage becomes a real issue. But the Tavor is also available with a 9mm conversion kit.
A Tavor on a single-point sling is readily accessible, and won’t get in the way when you reach for your…
This is the GLOCK 19 I keep on hand. You know–just in case.
3. GLOCK 17
Or 19. Or 20. Ah, hell. Pick a number. I’m predisposed to like the 17/19 for this sort of purpose driven scenario, as ammo is easy to come by. I carry a 19 with a fair amount of extras (a light, a mag extension, and GLOCK 17 mags). The point here is that I’d want a pistol, and not a revolver. I’d also want a pistol that is easy to control, and one that has no barriers to instinctive operation. In this case, I don’t want a manual thumb safety. And I want capacity, and extra magazines. And I’d damn well be carrying it strong-side, with a mag carrier on the other side.
The GLOCK is ideal for this, though there are clearly other options. I could just as easily go with any number of pistols, though I’d want one chambered in 9mm.
An AK with a 1-4 scope becomes a great option when shooting under 100 yards.
4. The AR-15 (or an AK, if you prefer)
It wasn’t that long ago that my prom, in downtown Atlanta, was canceled because of rioting in Los Angeles. And I think the Korean store owners answered this question in a very resolute manner when they protected their own shops from looters by perching on the rooftops with long guns.
If I was in a team of shop defenders, and on the roof, I’d look to the AR and AK pattern rifles. Either one would work nicely. In this version of store protection, capability is key, but so is the threat of protection. Seeing a man on the roof with an AR-15 conveys a certain message.
5. The pistol caliber carbine
If you really want to make a point, before the looting starts (as many have done in our current catastrophe), I’d suggest going even more gratuitous. That’s what’s happening here. Social media is being used as a deterrent. Store owners aren’t waiting for newspapers to run photos of their armed resistance after the event—they’re doing it themselves, before, to make sure the looters have time to think about what’s waiting for them.
While I’ve not got much experience with the Kriss, I know it looks intimidating. And sometimes that’s enough.
That where the Kriss Vector could be useful. I know this is more of a pipe-dream than a practical solution, but imagine the power of a single image. A store owner, cigar clenched tightly in his teeth, with a Kriss slung below one arm. It would be even more effective if he were vaguely ethnic, had a slight paunch and a receding hairline, and wore a white bowling shirt. I’m not going to loot that store.
Or maybe a nice combination..
As for me, I’d be rolling in with a Mossberg 590. I’d have a GLOCK 19 on my hip. I’d have the AK close at hand. And I’d have my own posse.
Store owners in Ferguson line up to defend their shop in the latest round of riots.
y’all will take any excuse to shoot brown ppl lol
For me, I can’t really run or fight anymore, surgeries that were supposed to “fix” things with my spine, arms and legs didn’t. Because of my situation, even a 9mm is painful to shoot more than a few rounds (no cartilage in the wrist).
So, after observing what happened at Ft. Hood, for me, FN’s 5.7×28 round really started to make sense. While I love the .45 ACP and a 12 gauge filled with whatever is appropriate for the task, I can handle this little, devastating round that doesn’t recoil much and seems to run forever on one mag. While ammo is expensive, I believe that I’m worth a few extra bucks, though some in my family may take exception to that point.
Yes, it is a brutally noisy round (close to the .40 S&W) but the carbine/handgun combination is compelling… for me. And unfortunately, we already have real life evidence as to how well it works in crowds.
Another option would be the AR pistol (with blast deflector) and M4 with 40 grain pills and extra capacity mags…
Agree about Remington 870/Mossberg 590. Looters must be crazy to attack a person with a shotgun. Everyone knows how powerful shotguns are.
I’ll be happy with my set up’s.
A. AR-15/xdm9 OR XD 45
B. Kriss Vector/Glock 30
C. Mossberg 12g/XD .40
D. Bow/Arrows and .22LR
I’m still not a fan of the 9mm when in comparison to the. .45 or .40
So far I’m set up for CQB, now I’m researching on which long range rifle I should get. Any recommendations?
What’s your definition of “long range”? If you are talking 500 meters, get an AR-15 varmint set-up. If you get just the upper, you can order it through the mail and avoid the whole FFL thing. Go with a 1:8 twist and 70+ grain projectiles and it will do fine. You get the advantage of a platform you are familiar with and semi-auto for faster and easier follow-up shots.
If you are talking 1000 meters or more, the Savage 10 BA Stealth can be had for a little over $900 (Hinterland Outfitters, on-line) in 6.5 Creedmore, and the only thing you will need to do is add a scope and any other accessories you want (sling, bipod, etc.). It is a tack-driver right out of the box. 6.5 Creedmore performs better than .308 past 800 meters, and match grade ammo is priced comparably. IMO, you can not get more precision rifle for the money.
I also have my preferences for such situations. My Saiga 12 conversion with a nice reflex sight and 8 round drum. Loaded with #4 buck pushed by 42 grains of Blue Dot. On my hip rides my beloved .45ACP loaded with Hornady self-defense rounds. The Mrs. carries a Beretta CX4 Storm carbine chambered in 9mm and a Taurus Millennium pro on her hip, also in 9mm. Some would discount the 9mm but when loaded correctly it will get the job done in CQC.
For a riot situation I would defend my domicile, and would also defend my right to use guns to defend myself…Not going to turn them in to cops.. as in Katrina. Have Glock 21 and several AR-15s and a retired police 12 ga pump. Ive qualified with it with slugs and buck.
590A1 with VERY sharp M9 bayonet, extra rounds in stock,
Springfield XD compact 45acp/extended magazine.
I don’t think charging or trying to grab the shotgun with the M9 would be a good idea..
Rifle/pistol, rifle/pistol, rifle/pistol.
Mine is Delta Defence AR15/Keltec PLR-16
Wife is Kahr M1 Carbine/Blackhawk .30 carbine
Daughter is Marlin Model 70/Walther P22
Commonality of ammunition without the ability to confuse magazines. Send ’em in waves, we’ll stack ’em up.
Why a pump shotgun? Why not an autoloader? Why such a long barreled gun in close quarters? Maybe the sound of racking a gun isn’t heard. People not both sides of the muzzle not thinking clearly and assuming foolish things.
After Katrina we had to re-think our firearms. Me and friends of mine decided on FN PS90’s with 5 7 pistols and the Vests from the Vestguy.com who makes some bad ass PS90 vests . Each of us has 7 mags for the PS90 and 5 for the 5 7. We also have an undisclosed amount of ammo.
I love your choices, those are two of my favorites.
I always wanted that perfect match but never purchased.
The Socialistic Communist Democrats that took over my state, feel that I don’t need more than 10 rounds to protect my family.
So those great guns would be shamefully neutered and not worth having.
Your stockpile must have cost you plenty. Expensive but very cool ass kicking, fire breathing round.
The comment regarding the 223 carrying beyond its intended target is true, but a miss with any round is a miss and will carry beyond its intended target. The 223 will not over penetrate like a 9MM will often do. A rifle chambered in 223 can be far more versatile than a handgun round fired from a handgun or rifle.
If your worried, shoot the legs out first, then getm crawling.
I agree. I’m going with the Beretta px4 and it’s sexy older sister, the cx4 in 9mms. Interchangeable magazines are awesome.
Like Uncle, the bigger danger is getting the police after you for your defending property by shooting people trying to steal from you. Remember, the police like “probable cause” because it enables them to search and then to seize your property. Your property then becomes their property (felony to protect property over life) and then to sell it at public auction. Think $50,000 for a criminal lawyer, think loss of your home for another $160,000, think job loss and security clearance loss for felony thus life long unemployment. Is it worth saving property you might have insurance to cover? Police are not your friends. The second issue is to protect you and your family where the argument degenerates to which size ammo versus another and to one type gun versus another. What you really want is firepower that you can hit your intended target out to perhaps 100 yards for urban warfare. Firepower equals number of rounds immediately ready for you. Hitting your target means a rifle for anything outside 25 yards and pistol within. A bigger concern that being able to kill the attacker is to stop the attacker. My preference would be an old M3A, the 45 caliber fully automatic grease gun tankers used to have with 30 round magazines. But they are not around so the next big thing is large bore high capacity rounds. That leads me to Kel Tec SUB2000. This is able to carry over 30 rounds (Glock configured) of .36 caliber ammo (9mm) which is 50% bigger than 5.56 rounds (.223 caliber). When fired out of its 16 inch barrel, the energy equals a .357 magnum. No one should doubt the .357 magnum will stop anyone it strikes even out to 100 yards. Strapped to my side would be a second KelTec SUB2000 along with a Glock using the same ammo magazine. This will provide 100 rounds of near instant access good to well beyond that 100 yards yet employable from within my truck should the zombies (looters) attack as we bug out. But my bottom line is this – the looters can have my insured property and my house; but not my family nor my good neighbors nor me. They can have my TV and the booze in the closet. And they can have whatever is on the shelves in my strip mall store. It is not about protecting my things as much as protecting my freedom and the lives important to me.
I like my firearms better than yours, but everyone’s different, to each his own.
You should see what a VEPR Saiga SG can do with Hi cap mags.
Or check out how ass beating a PTR 91 is with multiple mags of .308
My god the streets will clear when they hear that noise.
I know I wouldn’t hang around.
I forgot to say; I do agree with you philosophy to a point, Robert.
Life is more important than stuff, but I may be standing in front of my stuff, so…
Firing at a mob is likely to either a) get you fatally beat to a pulp by the mob; or b) killed by the cops or national guard. The least likely outcome is to drive the looters away and the most likely outcome is to land you in jail. Self help is definitely not the way to go unless your life (not your property) is on the line
to outfitter et al….here in Mississippi we see things differently thank the lord. I worked for it–it’s mine and I protect what’s mine. You come on my place, you ain’t walking off with my property or your ass either while I have breath in my tired old body. I don’t want to drive the looters away, I want them dead so I don’t have to protect myself from them tomorrow or next month. I have my shotgun and my trusty Garand from my military days. My wife uses a 30 M1 carbine very effectively, period.
Ya rob!
You and your wife sound like a real nice dynamic duo.
Love that list Mr. Higginbotham.
Only problem I have with your choice is the light on your weapon.
It’s a beckon to show your enemy where to shoot you.
I can see around and know my home in the dark, and would use that ability to my advantage.
Try this exercise some time; get up in the middle of the night and switch on your flashlight to go to the bathroom.——->> It blinds you<<.
I wish I had the money for your KRISS vector and IWI Tavor choice, love those, maybe someday.
My son's on my HD team so we're kind of doubled up.
Here's our list;
1. 870 7+1 pump / VEPR Saiga.
2. Walther PPQ .40 / Glock 29 10mm.
3. AK 74 – 5.45 / AR 15 – 5.56
4. PTR 91 .308
5 VEPR sniper rifle 7.62x54R
I didn't notice you having a battle rifle or a far off defense rifle or maybe some kind of car stopper listed.
My preference is my Delta Elite with Zombie MAX rounds. I don’t give a hoot where they are, if someone get’s into my house uninvited they better have a good explanation. I don’t miss with my 1911 and at 25 yards that round will still knock the snot out of anyone. Nuff said
Aren’t #2 and #4 the same thing? This list practically could have been:
Top 5 Guns To Defend Looters:
1. Shotgun
2. Pistol
3. Semi-Auto Rifle
4. Another gun
5. Derringer
All good choices, and several are what I would select. My wife doesn’t have the grip strength to rack the slide of any of my pistols, 3 in 45 ACP and 2 in 9mm, so she will ALWAYS reach for the 870. Racking the slide of a 12 gauge pump is a sound every bad guy knows and fears. The sight of a frightened and pissed off woman with a big black pump gun is something I would not want to see. The wife also hates to practice shooting so I taught her the most effective way to handle it if she has to shoot; squeeze the butt stock under the right arm and fire and rack until the booming stops. She can run 8 rounds through pretty quickly and it lays down an awesome field of fire!
Many years ago, I was helping a friend who thought he needed to buy a gun for home defense. We went to a gun shop and he gravitated towards pistols and assault rifles, and things of that nature. Know that he didn’t want to actually have to shoot anyone, just scare them. I told him he was looking at the wrong stuff. The guy at the shop looked a little surprised by my response. Finally after looking at all manner of rifles, and pistols, I asked the guy for a 12 gauge pump. The guy realized what I was saying, handed me one, and I rapidly worked the action once. there were several people in the shop and every head turned my direction immediately.
I say a pump 12 is the right choice. Most of us never want to shoot someone, but if you have to a pump 12 can put most people down quick. And really., the sound alone can garner attention and get people to realize they need to leave. Which is often even more desirable.
OK, here’s the buzzkill. Remember your concealed carry training guys: Lethal force is not legal for defending property, only for defending life. Stick with the 12-gauge pump and birdshot. You don’t want to end up in prison over stuff that can be replaced and is hopefully insured.
Thumbs Up Uncle!
Bzzz, a “12-gauge pump and bird shot” is lethal force.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Edmund Burke
~~
Uncle, I like the way you talk…..
Well, actually that depends on which state you live in. I spent 20 years in Florida, have CCW’s from there and two others states. Florida does allow lethal force to be used to protect property. I was actually ‘mildly’ scolded by about half a dozen Police officers for not putting a bullet in a guy who tried to rob my store. Just because your state doesn’t allow it, doesn’t mean they’re all the same way.
Birdshot is a horrible idea. To stop someone with birdshot you pretty much have to kill them, and it’s just not as effective as #4 or #1 buck at home defense ranges. There’s reports of BG’s getting shot in the face with birdshot, and it’s just made them angry. That never happens with buck.
Down here in Mississippi we can use lethal force to protect our property. Bring on the looters.
Good advice Dave, thanks. If I were on the offensive side (going after the looters/criminals etc) I would want to have as much fire power as possible. However in a defensive position (urban community, protection of family and livelihood) where scattering combat firepower all over the place may have a more negative impact on the very people we are protecting, Your choice of a Glock 17/19, combined with something like the Kriss, the KelTec Sub 2000, or the JR Carbine which uses 9mm Glock magazines, means that I can carry and/or have strategically placed ammo where needed. No need to fumble for different magazines nor ammo. I can use it all efficiently, effectively, and with enough fire power.
Good advice Dave, thanks. If I were on the offensive side (going after the looters/criminals etc) I would want to have as much fire power as possible. The AR, AK, M-2, and other combat platforms would be an excellent choice. However in a defensive position (urban community, protection of family and livelihood) where scattering combat firepower all over the place may have a more negative impact on the very people we are protecting, I agree with your assessment. Your choice of a Glock 17/19, combined with something like the Kriss, the KelTec Sub 2000, or the JR Carbine which uses 9mm Glock magazines, means that I can carry and/or have strategically placed ammo where needed. No need to fumble for different magazines nor ammo. I can use it all efficiently, effectively, and with enough fire power to do the job.
I’m ready with my 870 loaded with alternating loads of birdshot and .00 buck, my 1911 in .38 Super for me, and a Ruger in .38Special/.357 Magnum and a Mossberg T715 in .22 LR for my wife. When she gets her carry license we’ll get her a semi-auto pistol that she selects. Probably quite a few snickers about the .22 but it looks exactly like an AR and unless you point it at someone they can’t tell the difference unless they get real close (and that won’t happen). Besides, a well placed headshot with a .22 can do the job and with my 9 shot magazine .12 Gauge and 10 round magazine .38 Super we’d be OK unless it was hundreds of people at the same time.
I simply recomend a .45 Colt with extended mag and laser sight
For an urban survival rifle the AR 15 his hard to beat due to ammo availability but i prefer my model 1892 Winchester saddle ring carbine in 38 WCF but once you run out of ammo you’re all done.The Winchester is only 6#s loaded has a 10round tube mag that can be loaded on the run,lever action that is as slick as glass,a to die for light trigger,firers a 40 cal.180 gn.cast bullet at 16oofps and is deadly accurate out past 100yds.Nothing points,holds handles or shoots like and old Winchester but finding shells for it while on the run ain’t going to happen.The 38-40 uses the same exact same 180gn. bullet as the 40 S&W but sends it down range on steroids,i have an 1873 Colt peacemaker of the same caliber for a sidearm and would never consider myself under gunned in a firefight with either one of these guns that is as long as my ammo holds out.
A VEPR 12 semi-auto shotgun with several 12 rnd mags will do.
You missed the best one! My Kel Tec KSG! Just the look would someone away!
Yes, great choices
You dropped the ball on this one. I can’t believe it there is nothing I mean nothing more intimidating than to hear a ar15 with bump fire stock going off with a 100 round mag loaded dump. They scatter fast.
While I agree the Slidefire stock would make a statement from just being heard…I don’t think I’d want to have to explain later in a court of law why I was spraying bullets all over the neighborhood. I think it better that if you must fire on someone to “impress” them with your accuracy with well placed shots. Collateral damage also has to be taken into consideration. …
MATT: You obviously have not been on the receiving end of a Ma Duce when she is Rock and rolling or a 5.56 or 7.62 or larger Gatling Gun and seeing Puff firing at night is awesome as long as you not the target… But for close in jungle or street fighting the belt fed12gage machinegun developed by an SAS Sargent for jungle insurgency after WW II in the late 1940’s wins my vote.
Belt Fed. Don’t try and scare the looters just open up on them.
I’ve never been a supporter of “spray-N-pray” technique for crowd control, or for actual threats. That’s for the playstation/X-box crowd and uneducated Jihadists.
The mere “sight” of a firearm, will most likely NOT deter a determined group of looters at all. Just my personal and professional observations, is all.
Each of us has to justify our own salvation and methodology for personal protection, if someone “thinks” that bump-firing an AR-15 is an “effective” methodology for defense, I sincerely hope they have a huge supply of ammo and magazines, because I sure won’t be sharing any of mine with anyone, I’m not blood related to.
Having been in the 1992 Los Angeles Area Rodney King Riots, (Loot-Scoot-N-Shoot-Diversity-Festival ’92), I can testify that determined looters are not impressed by the mere presence of firearms. The California National Guard did not even have any ammunition for their magazines for three days when they were first deployed in the metro area on duty. The rioters took about 30 seconds to figure that out, and the riots continued until the Guard could finally use their firearms with real ammunition.
Preparation is key to our survival, “tactic-cool style” always leads to failure, there are plenty of youtube videos of Jihadi failures trying to be tactic-cool. Live and learn. The AR-15 is an excellent choice for defense of hearth and home, never assume your ammo supply is always replenish-able, make your shots count, or don’t shoot.
TPSnodgrass: I couldn’t agree more. I spent all my adult life in Law Enforcement and when I first started out, we were taught the “racking of the slide on the old street sweeper/pump and the perps run like mad.” I accomplished my goal of becoming an Academy Firearms Teacher earl on in my career and was never so excited at a new direction. As I was going through the Instructor Training program, the Old Timers there spoon fed us the “rackin” therom. Over and over they taught us to teach the “kids” that a good show of force is almost always all that is necessary. I couldn’t contain myself after the third day of the same old propaganda.
I was taken to task for “bucking the program” until, late one evening when, a young female recruit who had overheard my friendly arguments with the lead Instructor Teacher. She sought me out afterward since we were housed in the same Academy dorms. As she and discussed my theory v. the Teacher’s I offered to take her to the firing range for some live(dry fire) exercises that I had worked up as part of my “lesson Plan” that we all had to develop and present as part of our finals in order to receive our Certification.
What I did was deemed “nutso” but it was something that I had learned from my Soviet Counter parts some years earlier. I handed her the ‘500’ and 5 rounds of buckshot. I told her to decide whether or not she wanted to load the gun or not. But that even if She chose NOT to load it, to rack the slide as if she were ramming those rounds home. I was not present when she began racking the slide.
After shooting a full qualifying round with her handgun, I switched her to the Shotgun. I walked to the target stands with my back to her and and upon mounting new targets, I told her to “rack a round” and I would charge at her dead straight on. IT was her call to fire a shot past me or not fire at all. I suddenly turned barreled head long right toward her. She racked the slide, mounted the gun and hesitated. In the 2 seconds she hesitated, I had gotten so close to her that I grabbed the shotgun away from her before she could even consider pulling the trigger. She had not loaded the gun and even if she had, the “live rounds” were nothing more than crimped shells with dirt and a fresh primer. I knew that, she didn’t but, the purpose of me turning my back to her was to allow her to use her own ammo that I had requested she bring that night for the session. I operated purely on the “assumption” that there was nothing in the gun. Just as mobs do when the good guys show up with shotguns or M16s with empty magazines. Had I heard the sound of a truly live round going in to the receiver, I would never have made the play.
Then in that same Rodney King debacle, the Former Young Recruit was there as well. She told me later that when the NatGuard showed up with their unloaded weapons, she immediately allowed some of the would be thugs SEE her loading rounds in to her shotgun. The instant the last round was racked and the shotgun was mounted, the thug wannabes scattered like Quail. The ones staring down the Guard stood their ground and actually began to intimidate sections of the Guard line.
Spray and pray only works well in Slyvester Stallone mayhem movies. EVEN IF spraying accomplished something positive in protecting others, the cost of the coming court battles would be so high that spending time in prison would be imminent.