Cops have a tough job, no doubt about it. But that doesn’t mean things can’t improve. Right?
In researching groups that are attempting to ameliorate community-police relations, I came across Campaign Zero, a group dedicated to ending police brutality and violence against citizens.
Campaign Zero says that over 1,000 people are killed by police every year in America.*** Organizers want to bring that number down to zero. Hence the name “Campaign Zero.”
In an effort to do so they’ve hatched a new #8CantWait campaign, which highlights eight policies that they claim can reduce police violence by as much as 72 percent.
Here are the recommendations:
- Ban Chokeholds & Strangleholds – Allowing officers to choke or strangle civilians, in many cases where less lethal force could be used instead, results in the unnecessary death or serious injury of civilians.
- Require De-Escalation – Require officers to de-escalate situations, where possible, by communicating with subjects, maintaining distance, and otherwise eliminating the need to use force.
- Require Warning Before Shooting – Require officers to give a verbal warning, when possible, before shooting at a civilian
- Exhaust All Other Means Before Shooting – Require officers to exhaust all other reasonable means before resorting to deadly force.
- Duty to Intervene – Require officers to intervene and stop excessive force used by other officers and report these incidents immediately to a supervisor.
- Ban Shooting At Moving Vehicles – Restrict officers from shooting at moving vehicles, which is regarded as a particularly dangerous and ineffective tactic.
- Require Use of Force Continuum – Develop a Force Continuum that limits the types of force and/or weapons that can be used to respond to specific types of resistance.
- Require Comprehensive Reporting – Require officers to report each time they use force or threaten to use force against civilians.
On the website, they have an interactive section that allows you to select your city to see which, if any, of the policies your police department has approved and enacted. To give you an example, I picked Burbank, CA, a place I used to call home. Here were the results:
Probably all of you reading this article are gun owners and 2A supporters. And many of you are also firearms instructors, active or former military, active or former law enforcement, martial artists, CQB aficionados, etc., and I’m wondering what you think of these reforms?
Moreover, what’s missing (if anything) and/or what would you change about law enforcement training and protocol to make things better for police and the citizens they serve?
Maybe you don’t think anything needs to change, in which case I’d like to hear from you as well.
Let me add that this is not about piling on police. Many of my best friends work in law enforcement. Many of the contributors to GunsAmerica over the years have worked or do work in law enforcement. This isn’t an anti-cop hit piece. What I’m trying to do is start a conversation about ways to improve the situation.
Looking forward to reading your feedback in the comments section.
***Police may kill 1,000 people per year, but Campaign Zero does not appear to distinguish between cases where the use of lethal force was justified and instances where it was not. Maybe that’s not something they care to pay attention to but I believe that if we’re going to have an honest dialogue about police violence we need to delineate between lawful instances where lethal force is used by an officer to save a life (or lives) and unlawful instances where lethal force is used by an officer to take an innocent life (or lives). Because self-defense is very different than murder. The two should not be conflated. For example, does Campaign Zero include cases where police take out mass shooters on their tally of people killed? If so, that doesn’t make much sense as in many cases the only way to get them to stop killing is deadly force. I sent an email asking them that question and am awaiting a response.
To prevent about 75% of these Police related shootings is for the suspect to comply and “quit resisting”. Court is supposed to be held in court not along side of the highway.
I think the change of charges from third degree to second degree murder was done purposely to produce a no guilty Finding or hung jury, because the State’s proof falls short of that needed for second degree murder convection. Since the trail would take place just before the election, if found not guilty or a hung jury happens we will have bigger and more violent riots in the streets. To the benefits of the Democratic candidates.
Many of the eight items are already in effect in at least some areas, but by themselves do nothing to stop incidents like that of the George Floyd killing. I did not see if Floyd ever resisted, or if there was any reason to take him to the ground, but he did not appear to be resisting while held there with the knee. The officer with his hand in his pocket did not appear to be concerned about resistance at all. I would guess the officers there at the time were probably uncomfortable with the knee, but perhaps the climate at the department was not to ever question a fellow officers actions. I have had my knee on subjects numerous times, just never on the neck. I could see it as something to use briefly during a violent struggle. Same with the carotid restraint (not a choke). The carotid restraint is something that can be used to save lives rather than ending up having to resort to a lethal tool, banning it is a knee jerk reaction to improper use and the fear of improper use. The same arguments can be used for every tool available. Requiring a verbal warning when someone is actively trying to kill you can be stupid. A warning when it can safely be given is a great idea. De escalation techniques are great and already taught. In the vast majority of cases dealing with suspects where I have been present de escalation has been used and worked. Force is seldom resorted to, but the ability to use force is vital to making de escalation work. In most cases asking calmly first then escalating to demands backed by force if the situation requires it is the way to go.
Probably the major take away I could offer is that both citizens and police need to treat each other with respect. Until there is a reason otherwise you cannot treat everyone like a badge heavy asshole or a criminal. Of course if everyone followed the golden rule there would be much less reason for police.
There were two autopsy reports but I only read the last one. That one does state that Floyd was resisting, thus the need for an additional 3 LEOs. This fact seems to have conveniently been left out. It makes sense if the narrative is that Floyd was forced to be taken down without him putting up any resistance. The video does seem to support that narrative. Few also mention that drugs that he had in his system: fentanyl and meth. This exacerbated his cardiovascular condition (a specific one that’s in the 2nd autopsy report) and hypertension. He died from those conditions, not asphyxiation as the entire world is being lead to believe. The LEO who had his knee on him exacerbated an already bad cocktail of conditions that Floyd had. Even though the two autopsy reports contradicts each other in some things, I believe that Floyd’s death was exacerbated by the LEO who had his knee on his neck. He didn’t intentionally kill him but he was negligent and seemingly callous (according to the most popular video that everyone has seen). I think the change to second degree murder was political, not factual.
These are good guidelines. However, as has been pointed out, decisions often have to be made in a split second. Perhaps the way to go is to create a rebuttable presumption that an officer violating these guidelines is in the wrong unless evidence is presented to support his actions. That would produce caution dealing with civilians in these situations, but not prevent necessary actions.
As I teach my CPL classes. “The imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury Is where you’d rather be in jail than where you are right now.”
Defund ANTIFA. ANTIFA is a terrorist organization and the source of this groups funds must be traced and confiscated. Best case scenario, the Soro’s family would loose their privileged status and before he dies George would know what it is like to have lost everything.
After 41 years in law enforcement, working for an agency that operates under all the policies and rules suggested above, I can safely say all the policies and regulations in the world cannot stop a bad cop from being a bad cop. We have laws against bank robbery but people rob banks. There has to be a better way to screen and evaluate potential hires. Training is necessary, but as with policies, a bad cop is still a bad cop, who makes his own rules. Additionally, until they commit an act so egregious it makes everyone’s head spin, they continue to work many times unfettered. Most leo’s who commit these acts are officers with several years on the job and have a history of inappropriate actions. With many agencies, with their appeals processes, it can literally take years to weed out a problem officer and most administrators don’t have what it takes to see it through. Many times, rather than go through the termination process, it’s easier for a supervisor to allow the offending officer to resign. They then obtain employment with another law enforcement agency an continue their bad behavior.
While an employee should be allowed certain protections under the law regarding his rights to keep his job, many gov. agencies have rules that make it almost impossible to terminate someone. Those policies plus tighter screening, transparency and individual accountability in my mind are the best solution.
I wholeheartedly agree, the accountability needs to be there, as well the laws and ordinances that protect officers from prosecution. I have family that are LEO, so calling all officers dirtbags is unfathomable In my mind. Every profession has people in it that should not be. It’s the same concept as a doctor that carries malpractice insurance.
Very good points indeed. The human element will always be the wild card. Some people have little regard for SOP and guidelines. Industrial accidents kill good people everyday as proof, no lock out/tag out. Same in the military and law enforcement. Once a combatant is subdued he is no longer a combatant, he is a prisoner and should be treated as such. The same should pertain to a suspect in law enforcement. Once subdued, end of force. Period. Any sworn officer who can’t abide by those principals is working their own agenda and shouldn’t be on the job. How do agencies weed these individuals out in the hiring process? Why would an officer resigning under a “cloud” be readily hired by another agency without thorough vetting?
While many of these ideas sound good to the uninitiated, those of us that have dealt with the real world know some of these are not realistic. The death of George Floyd could and should have been averted. Other officers saw it coming and even asked the (former) officer if he should roll him over.
My suggestion for this list is to hold the other officers accountable for actions on a scene by one of their colleagues. If you see something wrong, bring it to the attention of the ranking officer on scene. And add it to their report. If the supervisor chooses to do nothing, then hold him accountable as well. Having the rules on the books doesn’t mean anything if they are not enforced. If an officer thinks his colleagues are ratting on him, maybe he should listen to what they are saying.
The other part of my suggestion is to track how many internal “suggestions” this officer has had. After a predetermined amount, he should have a chat with his supervisor(s) on his job performance. Notify him/her that he either needs either extra training or a resume service.
The squad knows who are the bad officers. It is up to them to speak up so this doesn’t happen again.
I made a comment over 2 hours ago and it’s not posted yet. I wonder why my comment is being screened and my free speech is being suppressed. I didn’t attack anyone, there was no profanity or vulgarity. I cited some statistics from the FBI uniform crime report, discussed statistics from the Washington Post database on police use of force, and recommended a book for everyone to read that might clear up the confusion on these complicated issues that many people who are not in law enforcement are completely ignorant about. So I’m asking the editors…what gives?
It’s not that kind of comment section. Your comment will take time to show up.
2hrs, that’s fast!
Please stop referring to us as ‘Civilians’ we are ‘Citizens’. Law Enforcement is a civilian police force and NOT military.
Unbelievable how many of these commenters that claim to own guns in case a government starts becoming authoritarian are actually bootlickers once the authoritarian is hating the same people they hate. I try and have nothing to do with cops unless I need someone to break down my door and shoot my dog.
The level of ignorance I’ve seen in these comments about the legal authority for how and when police can use deadly force as well as the tactical realities of close quarters deadly encounters is unbelievable. I am a lawyer and a cop. I’m also a retired Army Officer. I urge everyone to educate themselves. Most of the 8 proposed guidelines are pie in the sky nonsense that likely comes from what we in the Army used to call “good idea fairies.” If you want to understand the complex series of events and the dozens and dozens of decision points that police officers encounter on the way to a decision on whether to use deadly force, a decision made by the way in fractions of a second, read the following book by two retired FBI Supervisory Special Agents, one of whom wrote the FBI deadly force policy: In Defense of Self and Others by John Hall and Urey Patrick. In addition consult a law enforcement trainer and get educated. And then please get your facts straight: police annually kill between 900-1000 Americans. Police are attacked with guns, knives, or other deadly weapons annually somewhere between 12,000 to 15,000 times a year. This means that police could justifiably kill approximately 12,000 people annually in legitimate self defense. Yet they only kill 900-1,000. To me that looks like a remarkable level of restraint. Please get the facts straight before you blather on like fools. Those numbers, by the way, come from the FBI Uniform Crime Report. In addition the Washington Post reports that last year police killed 10 unarmed African Americans. 9 men and one woman. 10. On the other hand more than 10 police officers have been killed in America in the last three weeks because of violent acts and I don’t see an outcry about that. Who is really under a threat here?
If a person’s airway is blocked by a knee, forearm or a piece of steak that person is unable to speak. That person is unable to say I can’t breath.
Speech requires exhalation. Breathing requires inhalation as well.
You know, these points all sound good on the surface. The problem I see is that no two situations are exactly the same, and some of these might be good policy in one situation while getting an officer shot in a different scenario. What strikes me as missing entirely from this picture is how we address the crime problems that create the use of force situations to begin with. Leaving that to another day, I don’t see these as being a panacea. I don’t remember the names involved, but a couple of years ago there was the man shot in a motel hallway, while extremely drunk and being terrorized by the lead LEO while being forced to crawl and pleading for his life. He was shot when his hand moved towards his waistband, which was probably an involuntary action due to his shorts shifting as he was forced to crawl. He was shot dead, but had no weapon on him. No charges for killing an unarmed man who posed no threat. He was warned, and it did no good because he was being treated like a taliban terrorist who had just lit an IED. He could easily have been searched and cuffed without incident, with multiple officers present, but instead he was threatened and asked to perform while visibly inebriated and terrified. It was this kind of paramilitary tactic that resulted in his death, and I don’t see anything in these rules that would have made a difference without a complete change in attitude. I am generally pro LE, but this incident, and the Philando Castille shooting are, in my opinion, examples where extremely poor performance by police officers resulted in completely unnecessary killing of men who were not a threat, while both officers were cleared. These are not like Michael Brown, who earned his fate in Ferguson. These are fatally flawed overreactions resulting from poor training or paramilitary mindset. Both are inexcusable.
Lets just have a left-wing progressive respond to all 911 calls prior to the arrival of LEOs. They can show the LEOs how to handle the situation. But if they are killed by the suspect then the LEOs will have probable cause to arrest the suspect. I bet just one progressive needs to die and then they will just let the LEOs do their job as best the can do.
I agree, he shouldn’t have died. My problem is with the news media that only reports on black deaths by police but completely ignores white deaths by police. Public statistics, year after year, shows that whites are killed by police more than blacks or any other race, but we as a society don’t know that because the press keeps that information from us. Saturating the national air ways with only black people being killed. I can understand the black community’s pain and frustration when they only see black people being killed by police on the news. The news isn’t really the news anymore. It’s a public mindset influencer.
AMEN! What this person says is the TRUTH. Look it up, it is true. The other statistic is blacks are responsible for a larger percentage of the crimes being committed but are smaller percentage of the population. Who will report those statistics? FOX, CNN, MSNBC, etc…? If anyone dares to report those REAL statistics you would be racist. Go figure.
Blacks make up 13% of the US population but commit 52% of the crime, and 90% of black homicides are committed by other blacks. This is part of what people like Candice Owens refer to as black on black crime. More whites and hispanics than blacks have been killed by LEOs. To believe the narrative that more blacks die than any other group from homicides that involve LEOs is foolish and dangerous. It further inflames hatred toward LEOs based on false assumptions. I hope someone or some people will be able to intelligently and calmly dispel this myth publicly. Otherwise many will continue to believe the narrative which some hate groups are purposefully using to continue to sow division and hatred.
We all aspire for senseless violence and brutality to stop, and there are some bad apples in the mix. We are appalled by what happened to George Floyd but I am deeply concerned by many who rushed to judge the officer’s actions as (1) intending to kill a human being and (2) that his actions are assumed to be racially motivated. It’s not that either of those things aren’t possible but perhaps improbable. A large element of the public sees these actions thru the lens of racism – that is unfortunate. There’s not very many police officers that are not acutely aware of the legal liabilities of their actions. Those officers were well aware that their actions were being filmed. Few are callous enough to have no regard for human life. What’s happening across the country right now is far more appalling because the injustices are being carried out by people purposefully and without regard to those who they are victimizing and without any reasonable belief that they will be held accountable to the law. If we truly want to see police brutality curbed then citizens, especially the lawless, need to understand that compliance with law enforcement officers and their instructions is your surest pathway to prevent tragedies. Sadly, lawlessness abounds. Didn’t we read about this somewhere a long, long time ago? Keep our nation in prayer.
I have taught arrest/control & DT for more than 30 years. It has never been taught or approved to put your knee on someone’s neck (front, back, or side).
Cops use that technique literally every single day. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it when you’re trying to get a resisting subject in cuffs. When people want to resist arrest, they aren’t following the rules, it seems stupid to limit what officers can do just because 1 cop completely misused the technique. Cops are trained to punch people in the face… If one day a cop gets a guy in cuffs and then continually punches him in the face until he died, it wouldn’t justify banning punching people in the face.
Watch the “Cops” program and you’ll see them putting a knee or foot on the back of someone’s neck. They do it to anyone black. white, Hispanic asian even when they are not resisting.
Since the 60’s, respect for the highest authority in a Supreme Being, removed from school, no fault divorce, LBJ’s ‘Great Society’, the number one thing missing in raising children is respect for authority, both in school and in the home. So, now we will begin to modify the authority in how to handle the disrespectful. Liberals love the phrase when referring to the creation of laws and regulations, “If it will save just one life…”. What if the new ideas on how to handle lawbreakers causes a LEO to lose his life? The police have to be nice to lawbreakers laws should have some interesting results.
I regret the murder of George Floyd. But I am grateful that the police and the Guard, and likely the active military should they be used, have demonstrated the need for weapons parity for the true militia stated in the Second Amendment. You and me. Fuck that specious contention that assault weapons are not for civilian ownership. You use whatever euphemism you want, my ARs and AKs, etc. are assault weapons.
I am very sorry Mr. Floyd is dead but I have to ask the question, why was he on the ground? I have been arrested twice. In neither case was I on the ground. I cooperated with the arresting officer. I am alive, Mr. Floyd is dead. Am I missing something here? I am alive Mr. Floyd is dead. ALL LIVES MATTER…ESPECIALLY MINE.
The media is most likely omitting to report the autopsy reports. There are two and I read the last one that was done on Floyd. There are reportedly some contradictions. The one I read states that he was high on fentanyl and meth. He also had a cardiovascular condition, which is specifically written in the report. In addition, he had hypertension and evidence of covid-19. A witness who initially called 911 (and who was most likely black) reported that Floyd didn’t seem normal. He was acting strange. He was high on those drugs! The “kneeing” by the LEO exacerbated his pre-existing conditions. The report states that Floyd didn’t die of asphyxiation but rather of that cardiovascular condition coupled by hypertension. The I-can’t-breathe narrative now popular around the world is partially correct. The LEO didn’t asphyxiate him but he did exacerbate his pre-existing condition. I don’t think he is the monster that many are portraying him to be in this specific case. Otherwise he would have been charged with 1st degree murder and possibly pre-meditation. He was charged with 3rd degree murder and later changed to 2nd to, in my opinion, satisfy the “crowd” and please those who hate LEOs, continue to believe the narrative that racism is a huge problem; and that LEOs kill more blacks than any other group in the US.
First, we are all civilians, unless we are on duty in the military. Police are civilians. Stop pretending they are not. They are doing a job, just like an accountant or a teacher. They are not special and do not deserve special treatment in a shooting. Departments should not be doing their own investigations after a shooting. When an unarmed person is killed, there should be a trial. Police should not be immune from this. The rest of us are not. No more cover-ups!
Second, there should be refresher courses and more psychological testing at these times. Departments need to get rid of officers that are not fit to be in the job. The color of a person’s skin should not give anyone a reason to treat them differently. If you are too afraid to do the job properly, then get out!
What planet are you landing your spaceship from when you utter the police are like accountants and teachers and no different?? The last time I checked those 2 occupations chances for a split second life decision was what homework the kids are gonna get for the day and what tax breaks the client is gonna get from Uncle Sam. Are there constant reforms that should be looked at… absolutely… but don’t attempt to over simplify the law enforcement occupation as though they are librarians. Until you’ve faced an imminent life or death event then don’t babble about the unknown from the safety of your keyboard and pop tarts with no real knowledge and only what you’re told via your tv.
Okay I’m a first responder, and a bad call on my part can easily kill 21+ people that I work with.
So by your rules I can comment.
Cops are civilian law enforcement. They are not military police.
They should be held to the laws that all citizens have to follow.
Amen.
Departments need to train more on how to treat people. Seems the training now is “Start at Defcon 5 @$$hole” when entering a situation, then drop to 4.5.
Teachers and Cops should both be fired if they display an inability to cope with what they do.
The problem is really a “system” problem that Police are protected by the “system”. They are taught about various case laws and presidents and are well aware of what they can get away with. If they felt more concern that they will be held to at least the same standard as any other American citizen they would be cautious about what they do and they should also be open for being held personally responsible for their actions. The Police are a part of the judicial system and government overall and are so protected by it. If a civilian was choking a Police officer for 8 plus minutes and the cop was saying he could not breath the charge would be 1st degree murder and the argument would be that during the last 4-5 minutes there was premeditation formed and therefore the charge is warranted. Whether it is upheld at the final disposition is not relevant. So at the inception of this case there is watering down due to it being a Police killing. True independent civilian oversite with authority to obtain reports, interview, investigate and rule over Police action is what I would like to see. Yes the 8 things listed are already part of training. Compassion, discretion, sympathy can not be taught. BTW the Police job is not that difficult IF people do their jobs as trained. Philadelphia Police, Philadelphia Corrections and Philadelphia School Police. Temple University Mental Health Worker and my best job pumping gas at an ARCO Station at 13.
Peaceful protests do ZERO. I do not like to see the destruction and harm however as my son said “maybe the looters feel that if the Police can murder people then all the lesser crimes do not count either, so they decided to fight lawlessness with the same behavior”. My 5th grade teacher told me that 2 wrongs do not make a right but how long can these killings go on? Lavoy Finicum, Weavers, Daniel Shavers, etc.
Ummmmm sure that makes a lot of sense 🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐. Your way will always solve the worlds issues… NOTTTT!!!
You forgot the top 3 methods to get to zero!
1. It must be taught in school, at home and in the workplace that it is required of citizens to submit to a lawful arrest. Court is where you argue legality.
2. There must be REAL consequences for resisting arrest, whether or not an officer is injured.
3. This may be the most important. It is required for citizens 16 to 50 to to take a course in civil behavior and/or a course taught by police and a community leader of numerous real life scenarios that police face most often that lead to physical altercations and the why and how of same. This opens the eyes of citizens of the dangers involved in police officer encounters.
One session in a shooting simulator to illustrate and reinforce all of the above.
I’m not sure where to begin. This sentiment is part of the problem. I’m not on this earth to serve the police. As a citizen, I shouldn’t be required to do much, expect have an expectation to be left alone and live my life. This type of comment breeds distrust of the police and puts them on a pedestal and gives the impression that they are in a significant position of authority over our lives. You may have forgotten protect and serve, not protect yourself and be served. Maybe the police need a civics lesson on how to deal with the community they allegedly serve. We aren’t serf’s and there is no prima nocta. Is police work dangerous, of course it is. But something has to change.
So if a citizen intervened in the case in question and pushed the officer off George Floyd to keep him from dying, you would have that person arrested and charged. If we all agree George Floyd shouldn’t have died during an arrest, how is this going to change in the future. I guess if George Floyd had that civics lesson, none of this would have happened.
You miss the point Artyman. Many of these type of incidents where someone has broken the law and will be arrested they may resist in many different ways. Some may be violent some may use aggression to attempt to stop the arrest this where bad things can happen. The fact of the matter is you do not have the right to resist a lawful arrest. Now that doesn’t mean I agree with how the Floyd incident was handled. I do however want to wait and see what all the facts are before rendering an opinion.
“I guess if George Floyd had that civics lesson, none of this would have happened.” You are absolutely correct. The white liberal lawyers tell black people to not cooperate and resist when approached by a white LEO. If a conflict occurs then the lawyers sue for police brutality $50-100K or if death then $5 million. Thank God for white liberal lawyers (NOT).
Warning before shooting? Why not just say the perp has to shoot first? Ban shooting at motor vehicles? Maybe just make it illegal for bad guys/girls/kids to shoot from a motor vehicle; that should fix it… Or if one of these poor misunderstood angels tries to run me down with their motor vehicle, I should hold my palm outwards and yell “STOP!” in a command voice…This group should be called IQ Zero, led by Sleepy Joe. BTW, I’m curious how the George Floyd incident is a “racist hate crime”? Someone cite some actual EVIDENCE he was killed BECAUSE he was black. I think he was killed because he was dealing with a turd cop, who I would bet everything has used that idiotic kneel on neck tactic on multiple suspects of any color.
Off topic, but did they ever determine if Floyd really was passing counterfeit money? Can’t seem to find the answer anywhere.
Doesn’t matter. Passing counterfeit money, even if you made it yourself, is not a capital offense. Plus there was zero due process.
Did you ever notice that when there is a particularly egregious killing by police, that ALL of their body cams were ‘accidentally’ turned off?
Not this time. All were on and have been turned over the BCA, which investigates in custody deaths. See here: https://www.kare11.com/article/news/crime/minneapolis-police-man-dies-in-police-custody/89-cfb7925a-4aa4-4f88-bf64-76d346b0e55f
These “reforms” are the very basics of any Use of Force policy and procedure. When I first wrote my department’s Firearms and Use of Force policies in the mid-1980’s, all of these items were included, and then some. However, what you can’t write into (or out of) any policy or procedure is the human equation. There will always be bad cops, bad politicians, etc., and the best we can do is be vigilant and weed them out as quickly as possible.
All the reforms they list have been in place and taught in academy’s for years. I started in LE in the late 80s and all of those things were taught and required. The huge hole in all this are people/groups that think they know what policing is all about and have all the answers. Most of these people haven’t ever been in a violent confrontation in their lives, much less deal with it on a daily basis as a thankless job. Most peoe have ZERO clue how dangerous and deranged the human animal can be, and you can’t deal with them with puppies and rainbows or your chance of going home after your shift has diminished to about nothing. As a 25 year LE veteran, what happened to Floyd was wrong. There was zero reason he had to stay on his neck the way he did, and I’ve fought and taken down hundreds of violent subjects. Some officers DO need better training to handle high stress situations. This includes more ground fighting and take down techniques that are less stressful for both the officer and subject, but, not every officer and department can afford to do this. Use of lethal force is always the last thing a officer wants to do, but, when faced with a lethal force scenario, you cannot cloud the officers mind with allot of unnecessary junk to think about causing him to hesitate his reaction to save his or somebody else life by using deadly force. Who will protest and pillage for the murdered officer? Nobody. Who will protest and pillage for the murdered citizen by a criminal? Nobody. What’s taking place right now is so politically driven it’s sickening.
I also am retired LE. I was going to write a response, but don’t have to. You said it all and said it well.
Agreed and well said.
This is the same problem our military has fighting terrorists. “Rules of Engagement” never work when only one side follows the rules.
If you are not braking the laws we live by you don’t have to worry about the cops !
Clearly you haven’t been paying attention.
The death of Floyd was murder and not police work.
There are 800,000 cops in America who make 12,000,000 arrests per year. Out of those they kill 50 people who are not trying to kill them. That’s 1 wrongful death in every 240,000 arrests. That’s incredible policing!
How about we train civilians on how not to be punks? Some of these proposed ideas would make cops jobs much tougher and put them in greater danger. Imagine a knife-weilding hoolum is charging at a cop. Burbank thinks that can be deesculated. Sure it can – with one or more 9mm, .40 S&W, etc. rounds in the vitals.
I think we are only getting half a story, the clip that started everything shows the beginning and end nothing in the middle, so I have to ask what caused the escalation,
I have no desire to be a sheep
I reserve the right to say it’s murder till I find out more on what happened
It’s going to take time,
we need the stop the insanaty
Looting and burning are not the answer
Most of these rules have been in place at many (Probably most) departments of any large size for years. Not enforcing their own policies is another thing all together.
The senseless murder of that man was about as sad and tragic as it comes whatever his circumstances were, people are righteously outraged. But wheres the outrage for the female college student stabbed, robbed, murdered in central park? She musta had it comin with all that white privilege, right? nobody burned any towns down in her name. Why not? because it doesn’t serve political motives.
There are certainly communities where members of the police force (if not the force as a whole) have fostered a culture of arrogance, hatred, and contempt for the people they serve and the for the law. However, (1) I don’t think this is representative of the majority of communities and (2) the measures proposed here seem more likely to incapacitate good officers in a pinch than to reform or remove problem officers.
This is definitely a serious problem that needs to be resolved. I’m not sure what the correct answers are but something needs to change.
What I do know is watching that former Minnesota cop spend almost 10 full minutes choking that man to death on the street in front of a public audience who were all begging him to stop the entire time was one of the most disturbing things I have ever seen. That dude needs to hang for what he did!