I once met David Koresh at the big Market Hall gun show in Dallas. I recall a friendly longhaired guy with a table full of black rifles who seemed a bit weird. In retrospect that was fairly surreal.
I’m not justifying the Branch Davidians’ theology, their peculiar social habits, or their actions in the face of a full-on government assault replete with armored vehicles. It has been alleged that Koresh was a pedophile polygamist who amassed an arsenal of illegally converted machineguns. All that may be true. However, undeniably bad things invariably happen when the full fury of the United States government is unleashed upon American citizens for violating ever-shifting firearms laws.
Gun control is in the news these days because gun control is forever in the news. After decades of uncomfortably dancing around the issue, a serious candidate for the Democratic nomination for President has finally come out and said what we all knew all along.
“Hell, yes, we’re going to take your AR-15, your AK-47.”
–Beto O’Rourke
While that makes a great left-wing talking point, I wonder if they’ve really thought that one through. A certain statistically significant percentage of the American gun-owning population is not going to just queue up and hand over their black rifles. Sadly, it seems we have actually trod this blood-soaked ground before.
A Flawed Messiah
Vernon Wayne Howell was born in 1959 to a 14-year-old single mother named Bonnie Sue Clark. Howell’s father, Bobby Wayne Howell, abandoned Bonnie Sue for another teenager before Vernon was born. Bonnie Sue subsequently shacked up with a violent alcoholic.
Bonnie Sue abandoned the child to his maternal grandmother when he was four. An unpopular kid, Vernon proceeded through school in special education classes secondary to severe dyslexia. At age 22 he fathered his first child with an underage 15-year-old girl.
Here the tale gets monumentally strange. Vernon spent a little time in church and claimed to have the gift of prophecy. He gravitated toward an eccentric offshoot of the Seventh Day Adventists called the Branch Davidians based outside Waco, Texas.
Vernon assimilated into this curious little band and eventually found himself in a power struggle for leadership. George Roden, the son of the organization’s dead founder Benjamin, vied with Vernon for control. George and Vernon challenged each other to a raise-the-dead contest, winner take all. Neither contender successfully revived the actual dead woman Roden dug up for their exercise. Their conflict subsequently devolved into an exchange of gunfire.
George Roden was wounded and remanded to an insane asylum. Howell was charged with attempted murder, but his legal journey ended in a mistrial. With George safely institutionalized, Vernon and his followers paid the back taxes and took control of the sect’s Mount Carmel headquarters. They subsequently discovered Roden’s abandoned meth lab and reported it to the police.
In 1990 Vernon Howell formally petitioned to change his name to David Koresh. Koresh was a reference to the ancient Persian King, Cyrus the Great, who freed the Jews from Babylonian captivity some 2,500 years ago. The David bit turned on his disputable claim of direct lineage to the Biblical King David. Koresh claimed he was, “professing himself to be the spiritual descendant of King David, a messianic figure carrying out a divinely commissioned errand.” Wow.
We’ll Skip a Bit at This Point….
Koresh and his merry mob had a serious weakness for ordnance. There were allegations of child abuse and polygamy, but none of that prompted an armed government response or even a serious investigation. It was the guns that put the government in play.
A UPS driver reported that one of many packages he delivered to the compound had broken open, exposing grenade casings and black powder. When Koresh found out about the investigation he invited the ATF out to the compound to inspect his guns. They declined.
Koresh had mail-ordered quite a lot of M16 parts. The ATF obtained a search warrant on the premise that the Davidians were in “constructive possession” of potential automatic weapons in violation of the oddly titled Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986. This oxymoronic piece of legislation outlawed the manufacture of automatic weapons for sale to civilians. Prior to that time building machineguns was perfectly legal so long as the rules were followed.
The government apparently falsely alleged that Koresh was operating a meth lab. This drug nexus allowed the BATF to requisition military assets. However, the Army Special Forces commander upon whom the request fell was not impressed, so the ATF received only training space along with medical and communication equipment.
Showtime
On Sunday morning February 28, 1993, a convoy of civilian vehicles containing a large number of heavily armed BATF agents approached the compound. They called the mission Operation Showtime. A local TV reporter notified in advance asked a letter carrier for directions. Unbeknownst to the feds, the mailman was Koresh’s brother-in-law. Any element of surprise was irretrievably lost.
Both sides claimed the other fired first. The firefight dragged on for two hours and only ended when the BATF assault teams ran out of ammunition. When the dust cleared four BATF agents were dead and another sixteen were wounded. Five Davidians died, two of whom were killed by their peers after having been badly wounded. Another Davidian was shot dead trying to re-enter the compound after the initial raid.
The FBI took over the operation, and for the next 51 days, the eyes of the world were on Mount Carmel. Nine M2 Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicles along with five M728 Combat Engineer Vehicles and a pair of M1 Abrams Main Battle Tanks were requisitioned from nearby Fort Hood. They flattened the compound’s outbuildings in short order.
Attorney General Janet Reno made the case to President Clinton to assault the compound with armored vehicles and tear gas. She claimed that the Davidians were beating babies, the FBI Hostage Rescue Team was tired, and that the siege was costing a cool million dollars per week. The baby-beating thing was not necessarily true, but, no matter, on April 19 the government deployed their gas.
Somewhere along the way a fire started. Conspiracy theories abound concerning the details, none of which really matter. 76 Davidians died including 28 children. It was horrible by any conceivable metric. Two weeks later the site was conveniently bulldozed.
The Guns
The charred wreckage of the compound ultimately produced 305 Davidian firearms, mostly AR15 and AK47 variants. There were also multiple shotguns, revolvers, and pistols. There were a total of 46 automatic weapons discovered among the debris, 22 of which were converted AR15s.
Twenty selective-fire AK rifles along with a pair of full-auto HK SP89’s and two converted M11/Nine’s were documented.
Another pair of stripped full auto AR lowers and 39 AR15 drop-in auto sears were recovered. There were also another 88 unmolested AR15 lowers.
There were countless magazines, 100 hollow M21 practice grenades, 200 inert M231 rifle grenades, chemical warfare gear, and night vision imaging systems found in the rubble. The final report included fifteen sound suppressors, several Kevlar helmets, and body armor. The Treasury Department report included 21 suppressors, but it was later determined that spent government tear gas casings had been erroneously counted as silencers.
Ruminations
Nobody disputes that the Branch Davidians were weird. However, they maintained surprisingly good relations with their neighbors. Being weird isn’t an adequate impetus to be burned to death even in Beto’s America.
The allegations of underage marriage and child abuse were rightfully disconcerting, but that isn’t what brought out the armored vehicles. Investigating child abuse is more a social worker thing than something involving hundreds of tactical officers with automatic weapons. Prior to the raid, the argument could be made that nobody innocent had been physically hurt. It really all came down to the guns.
I have any number of dear friends who are currently active members of the BATF. They are without exception committed patriots who view their mission to protect the public while respecting individual rights as a holy thing. The BATF rank and file is not currently the problem. The entity ultimately responsible for all this death and chaos was the US Congress. Seven years prior to the Waco raid these same guns would have been legal to build and possess.
We stand on the edge of a precipice peering into the darkness. There are as many as 20 million black rifles in private hands in America. If only .1% of those gun owners refuse to surrender their arms peacefully we are looking at the potential for thousands of Waco massacres.
Beto O’Rourke, Kamala Harris, and those like them need to count the cost. This is not Australia, New Zealand, or the UK. We Americans don’t have a terribly good track record of peacefully rolling over when the government tries to take our stuff.
The Davidians were undeniably unbalanced. However, when our elected officials make sparkly new gun control laws some poor slobs are going to have to enforce them. I pray more sensible heads prevail.
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
–George Santayana
Weapons of Mass Destruction are nukes and chemical warfare agents. Machineguns are really just good tools to help you run out of ammunition quickly. The unjustified stigma attached to these typically forbidden tools is driven by the media and remains quite powerful.
If David Koresh was involved in child abuse or r@pe that is a state charge, not a federal charge. Anyone with half a brain knows that the raid was fueled by the Clinton anti-gun agenda. They just needed a reason to use their propaganda on tv.
I wish more people would focus on the most important details as you have done above… perhaps then we could have some justice. It still bothers me immensely that we can lose our case and yet simultaneously Rodriguez successfully sued for millions on the only question that mattered: could it have been prevented?
A unwashed miscreant will spray the sky with a mac10.on a good day I got 4rds a burst.a deer rifle is made to put a large high speed bullet into the meat you want to eat and will work well on people who need shooting. We should have the freedom to own both
IF Harris /Biden (no, I did not make a mistake with that) win, this will become commonplace in America. It’s easy to brainwash Federal Agents into the idea that they are doing right, and so on. Waco and Ruby Ridge prove it. Laws will be changed so that it’s all legal. Just doing their duty. The Media is so far left that they will say anything to sell the public on how bad these people are….
Anybody keen to the fact that Delta operators were on scene, confirmed, however their operational status is still highly questioned to this day. Were they there for advision, or were they the ones who really started the fire (as many do believe).
Watching “Waco: A New Revelation” did kinda red pill me on this subject – it just was too shady. The DOD doesn’t even confirm that anyone received orders to engage the Branch Davidians. When it’s clear that there either were rules of engagement given, or they are straight up lying. You telling me that F’n BATF/JSOC weren’t communicating with each other about about the use of the PsyOps? That was definitely a JSOC order.
This is all just too fishy, follow the actual documents.
Watch objectively.
Put aside all personal bias and worldview.
Our emotions keep us stupid and ignorant to factual data and critical thinking. Maybe, just maybe, the government isn’t the ALL LIBERATING force that it claims to be. When civilians are getting fucking tanks deployed on their compound that was made out of fucking particleboard.
-Randall International
Hello,
One of David Ks progeny here, ave I just want to say I really appreciate your support objectivity and clarity in this case, and I wish the atf with whom you found character and integrity could be as objective as you and be held to account for their consequential choices, from the onset with a drug cartel militarization. Unfortunate. I still would like to be able to regain perspective instead of being so caught up in the current economic and mental health impacts I still must see everyday while my grandmother is unable to retire, while Rodriguez gets millions… she has worked so hard to be exploited and likely to the end. Fairness isn’t a guarantee… even with sonny bono… pfftch
Damn autocorrect: ave=and and so on
Let’s start with who fired the first shot. It was found out after the event that none other then the murder of Mrs. Sammy Weaver fired the first shot into that compound. The scene were the BATF is going thru the window was proven to be a pitch black room. Once inside the BATF panicked and started shooting one another.
Governor Ann Richards. Isolated the Posse Comitatus Act sending APC and Tanks from Fort hood. And this knowing there was only small arms in the compound. The FBI as we have recently learned are not the most honest Law Enforcement.
Lon Houruchi had just went thru an investigation for shooting Mrs. Sammy Weaver in her doorway while she was holding her infant child. That speaks volumes to the mindset of the BATF & FBI.
AT the trial of the Davidians the U.S. Government attempted to introduce weapons that were not involved in the shootout. Why? Why would the U.S. Government need to swap their own weapon for others and claim the one submitted to the court were like those and should be accepted.
Since when is a crime scene razed to the ground? I’ll tell when, Philadelphia 1970’s the FBI burned down a row of Brownstones to justify getting the PLA. Chicago Brownstones burned down to justify getting there man.
Waco, Tex Davidian Compound burned to the ground murdering 28 Children just to get their man.
But somehow the Waco jury did not believe the BATF & FBI version of the story. What happened to the front door. The Davidians main claim was that door. It proved who fired the first shots. Door went missing just like the Government weapon used to shoot thru that door.
Did I mention the FBI pattern of burning out the men and women they want. Just burn down the Brownstones and the Compound. Use Bradley’s and US Army Tanks against the Posse Comitatus Act. Break the Law to enforce the law. Why is it the Government can break the law with no consequences but civilians pay a hefty price.
Senator Chuck Grassley summed this whole debacle up quite well. “So, (speaking to the BATf & FBI) your telling us, Congress that you shot Mrs. Sammy Weaver under general orders”. Consider this.
When the trial concluded and the jury of peers returned a verdict of not guilty on all counts that corrupt Federal Judge Walter Smith threw out the verdict. Just set it aside. Here’s where I get indignant. Who the hell does this referee think he was. This titty grabbing womanizer.
We are raised and taught that jury duty is the most important sacred duty we have as Americans. The power to convict and to acquit lies to the jury only.
What Walter Smith did was unconscionable. Who did this ref think he was dismissing the verdict of a lawfully seated jury
No wonder people don’t want just duty in this country anymore. This lawlessness by Smith sent a message to America.
Your verdicts mean nothing, we judges will impose our will over any sitting jury anytime we please.
Smith in effect after dismissing the verdict imposed his own and the Governments verdict of 15 years sentences.
All this was said so those of you who never get the full story can at least know that we Wacoans did not convict the Branch Dividians. We found them innocent.
janet reno was a tranny,all you had to do was really look at a video when shim was stand and talking. there wasn’t much info about trannies then like now. if you don’t believe me,look it up,he/she’s adams apple looks like a pear and the wide shoulders,etc.he/she would fit right in with the rest of the mentally deranged misfits today.
Thank you, good write.
That was a real good story. I always wondered exactly what the ATF found.
I wish they would have walked up to him exiting Walmart, one on each side, and said ‘Mr. Koresh, please step into the vehicle, we need to talk to you.’ He calls attorney and they all go down to the station. You just paralyzed the head of the snake and got what you need to start a case.
Talk about a crazy feedback loop by the government.
This is why I use FedEx.
The Branch Davidians were deliberately burned to death. The gas pumped into Mt Carmel had a flammable carrier (methylene chloride). The power had been cut off to the compound near the beginning of the siege. The FBI knew this. They also knew the Davidians were using kerosene fuel lanterns and heaters for light and heat. Add a flammable gas, and you have a fire. The FBI also was aware of that. Coupled with the snipers posted around the compound (muzzle flashes evident on FLIR footage) and you have a massacre. No one was intended to make it out alive.
I’ve worked with CH2Cl2 on an industrial scale. The flammable range is pretty high, safer than many other industrial solvents. Aerosolize any solvent in an area with open flames and see what happens. If you had to choose a carrier solvent, you could do worse.
Exactly what one would expect to happen when religious nut jobs with guns face off against the authoritarian nut jobs with guns…just wish I was there to smoke both sides!!
The top photo of FBI agents includes my friend and fellow firearms instructor, who told me that “HE” drove the tank that started the fire, and was glad he did it. He’s long retired now, but, under Janet Reno and Bill Clinton, American citizens were massacred, and nobody in our government cared. Also under Janet was Ruby Ridge, where more innocent Americans were murdered, and the murderer is in the same picture. And, let’s not forget the interesting case of Elian Gonzales, who was ripped from the arms of his mother and family, and sent back to Cuba to a deranged father, while FBI “Special Agents” pointed full auto MP5 submachine guns at the heads of American Citizens. Rahm Emanuel, Obama’s “Chief Enforcer” was no angel, either! Shit like this happens every time we elect Liberal Progressive Socialist Democrats into Office. We have come to expect nothing less from the “Best and Brightest” that California and New York City have to offer…
Both “ Conservative” and “ Democrat” have blood on their hands of Murderous acts. They ALL have lost their way and found loopholes in Governments “checks and balance” to bypass what out founding fathers had written and all of this for the love of money and most importantly POWER. Guess who pays? WE THE PEOPLE.
They don’t fear us anymore.
Hey, I would love to shake that tank drivers hand… as imaginary as it may be… however, if he’s certain he started the fire that killed my siblings, he is a proud p u s s y
Don’t forget about the Ruby Ridge debacle…..
Also,….It might say in the constitution “ the right to bear arms shall not be infringed”…. But it does not say exactly what TYPE of firearms! If that’s the case why can’t I procure a helicopter, tank etc?Times have changed..but one thing hasn’t..Us humans are the most destructive ,evil beings on this planet ..and I don’t trust any of you with a firearm as far as I can throw you..period!
The fact of the matter is, my dear Bones, you CAN procure a helicopter, tank, etc. All you have to do is follow certain procedures and have the money to purchase them.
There are plenty of commercially manufactured and military surplus helicopters for sale. You don’t even need a rotor wing pilot’s license to own one. You will need a license to fly it yourself.
To own a milsurp bird, unless you go through the BATF process, it will have to be stripped of any armaments.
Owning a tank, or other tracked vehicle is easy. Locate one for sale that you would like to buy and make an offer to the owner/seller. Of course, it too must be stripped of armament and the cannon must be plugged unless you go through the BATF process to own Class III NFA items.
It doesn’t “…might say in the constitution…”, it DOES say, “…the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” It doesn’t say what type of firearms because the Founding Fathers knew that there would be advances in firearms technology. They were already seeing advances in different types of technology, as well as firearms.
You don’t trust anyone with a firearm? Well, there are a lot of people I don’t trust with an axe or cell phone, let alone a blade, motor vehicle, or any number of a lot of other things.
Bones you are living in the wrong country.the good news is there are many countries where you can trust your neighbors because they and you are disarmed. Freedom is just too dangerous for some people
In regard to the comments by Will Dabbs about “friendly, courteous and patriotic” BATF agents I want to add that, as an FFL I have met a few and will confirm that THOSE agents were “friendly and courteous” but, since I was cooperative and responded to their requests there was no need to show otherwise. However, I still had the feeling that things could have “gone south” very quickly, if I had not.
I believe that they are used to “getting their way” with no resistance and, if there WAS resistance their personalities may well have changed.
I firmly believe that we will only find who they (and all “law enforcement” people) really are is when they are tasked with enforcing unConstitutional gun laws and people resist. Some will be “patriotic”; some will not. The only chance that we will have to survive as a free nation is if the citizens refuse to roll over and give up. It is very easy to say, “Come and take them” but a lot harder to follow through on that “dare” when all you have worked for and hold dear is on the line. The Founding Fathers “put their ‘money’ where their mouth is” and gave up everything. Only 3% of the colonists did as well. I’m betting two things will happen when it the SHTF:
1) Most people (especially the big talkers) will roll over because they are young and their life is ahead of them so they will give up their guns but continue to complain.
2) A small percentage of these people who dare the government to try to take their guns will actually resist. If it is as much as 3% that is a lot of gun owners (about 1.5 million) which is a bigger army than some small countries. Even considering more “roll-overs” when the shooting starts there will still be a LOT of patriots giving armed resistance. The thought of this is what deters the government from initiating it. That’s why they try to “chip away” at gun ownership a little at a time.
The citizenry needs to draw a line NOW and stop that “chipping.”
When something which not only has been legal for a couple hundred years, but was enshrined in the constitution as a right which “shall not be infringed”, some folks are likely to be unhappy if congress turns those folks into felons overnight. This country became the most prosperous and most powerful nation on the planet primarily because of the individual freedoms enshrined in the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution. Our freedom loving ancestors went to war against the most powerful nation existing at that time … and they WON the war. We have a choice, we can keep our freedom by voting for it or we can give it up to the Democrats. How are you going to vote? Are you going to explain to your friends, neighbors and relatives why they should vote?
Nice article on a bad subject. Keep up the good work Will
If Waco happened today the Democrats would be screaming for Trump’s head. But under Slick Willie it was all good. Hypocrisy at its finest.
There are a lot of rednecks in Virginia aren’t there. That may be the reason for that communist minded government to try and take their guns.
It seems West Virginia’s government loves those rednecks.
Trying to disarm America would make the Civil War look like a small skirmish.
Anyone that takes the that line should be seen as the tyrant they are!
If I never met a discourteous or unfriendly or unprofessional paedophile, are they no longer inherently evil scum deserving of death for how they poison the world?
That you are not disturbed by how easily these cryptonazis blend in like normal people and seem not to be “bad” to you is a black mark on your charcter and besmirches your credibility as a writer in this community.
The author goes on about how all BATF agents he knows are patriots and all around nice guys just trying to protect the populace? I’ve got a story about two BATF agents trying to entrap a lawful gun store owner by getting him to sell one of them a Henry Golden Boy for “his grandson” without the proper paperwork and background checks. Can you say entrapment??? I thwarted their little scheme totally when as I walking into the store I noticed a pick up truck parked out of sight from the front of the store with a front bumper plate that had the BATF logo on it and walked in jokingly saying, “Travis! Have you got the BATF on you for something now?” You should’ve saw the look on the agents faces! After they left he told me “I wasn’t going to sell it to them without everything being legal anyways but they did NOT identify themselves!” So up yours with your high regard for the “Patriotic BATF agents”!!!
Protestant Christian’s MADE THE USA and its Founding Documents.
We are the first people to give a human a right to live.
We are the first to give gun rights.
My people were at Jamestown 1609.
American Revolution.
First land owners in in ALL of the Southern States.
We were here to create the Republic of Texas.
I will keep my guns and ammo; my enemies are the enemies of America and Jesus…that cult was not human much less Christian!
America is officially a Christian Nation and that by law…that cult was not of God!
If you agree with that doctrine, I will have nothing to do with you…You, are not American!
Yeah, why don’t you just say the truth: Our government murdered everyone at Waco, Texas for no other reason than a show of force.
They had surveillance on Koresh shopping for groceries, three weeks prior to their raid. They could have arrested him at anytime, and didn’t.
You also left out Lon Horuchi, FBI sniper who had just finished killing Vicky Weaver at Ruby Ridge, was also at Waco, shooting people left and right.
Is this what we can expect from our government?
Prior to this, no crimes were committed by their community.
It’s well documented.
Then Timothy McVeigh blew up the Federal Building as retaliation.
So yeah, the government is awesome at murder.
That’s what Batf is, FBI, etc.
Murderers.
No one prosecuted for Waco to this day.
Who cares about rumors. These are the facts.
You make a good Jesus hater, but not an American.
He only used his people to cover his sin against children!
You are no better than any murdering thug!
What???
Do you think Jesus would have killed Koresh and his followers (I would have to say he wouldn’t).
The state of Texas has laws on the books about statutory rape and marrying underage girls or boys.
The United States of America wasn’t “MADE” exclusively by Protestants.
You ought to say my ancestors instead of my people (“my people” makes it sound like you own them), saying ancestors would show them the respect they deserve.
And last but not least, go read and study a little bit of history on the founding of the United States of America and the events that led up to the siege and ultimate destruction of the Branch Davidians.
I was shopping at my wholesaler in Fife, WA when I happened to look up at a big screen TV suspended from the ceiling to see Waco burning. That did it for me; I never renewed my FFL. A few days later a copy of the Waco search warrant came anonymously in the mail. Every now and again, I’ll come across it and read it through, again as a reminder of just how badly our rights can be trampled under and lost irretrievably.
Living in Communist Washington makes you suspect of lying!
Were the Branch Davidians wrong? Yes they were. Did some of them deserve going to prison? Yes they did. But did all of them deserve being burned to death including innocent children? Dumb question, of course not. The government won’t even protect our soldiers for killing innocent human shields in the process of killing a terrorist. Our government won’t let our military bomb a facility that harbors terrorists if there are innocent people in harms way. But it’s open season on American citizens that go against their liberal agenda by possessing a firearm they don’t like. I’m in Virginia and my governor is an idiot.
There was a lot of controversy at the time with Janet Reno making decisions that the agents did not agree with, once again demonstrating the failure of REMF decision makers. She had some exotic birds that were illegal proving that laws are only meant for those who are not in power.
The simple influx of illegal/immoral “refugees” are more than enough grounds for us to maintain hardware. There are 20 million veterans who understand and respect firearms. The few that make the news seem to be malcontents and not good soldiers anyway.
The information being unearthed by investigations of the Dems and the DOJ post impeachment will prove to be devastating to those who perpetrated it. More and more information is being released showing Obama fidelity to Islam. Clinton was soliciting billions as SOS for her private charity and facilitated drug traffic in Arkansas. She destroyed Libya with her incompetence, greed and salacious disregard for human life. The evil cabal they represent can only be mitigated by an armed population. One need only look at communist and nazi tactics in population control.
I stopped reading when I read this crap – “I can honestly say I have never met a bad BATF agent. All the BATF examiners and Special Agents I have encountered both personally and professionally have been invariably courteous, helpful, knowledgeable, and friendly.”
Surely you jest. I guess you’ve never left your home.
Thank you for a factual and insightful article. I hope that it is widely read and accepted. Between Waco and Ruby Ridge a tremendous amount of damage has been done to some law enforcement agencies and as you state much of the cause goes back to Congress. The current deeply divided state of our population can be laid at Congress’ door as well. I do hope that more objective and cooler heads will prevail in DC in the coming years. I doubt that they will but we can hope. Thanks again for your work.
The 2nd amendment is a fail safe built into our government.. Remove arms from any population and expect to be exploited, even exterminated…
Wake up.. trust no one.. it is your duty alone to protect yourself and everything that you hold sacred…
It is out duty to educate our youth and train them to be efficient with arms of all types..
We The People will always outnumber the tyrants unless they can dilute the population with drones as they are attempting to do currently…
May God help us…
The BATF deserved what they got that day ! Not that i condone harming ANY law enforcement agent, but they were warned NOT to do what they attempted to do. They also KNEW that Koresh went into town on a frequent basis and could have taken him into custody at any time without incident, they however chose to go in heavy to make a statement , and paid a hefty price for being unprepared.. I also didnt see anything about the alleged friendly fire incidents involving ATF agents shooting each other.
“As absolutely everybody in the compound died they ultimately returned to base empty and unused.”
There were a few survivors and one wrote what seems to be an even handed book about his time with DK and the raid. Sorry I don’t remember his name or book title, he was a drummer who got hooked up with them for various reasons.
I did a search and I think this was the one; ‘Waco: A Survivor’s Story’ by David Thibodeau
I think he was one of two(?) that went over the fence before everything went south….
Remember, the FBI were not there enforcing any gun laws. They were there as the killing if a federal agent ( or employee) is FBI jurisdiction. They don’t enforce gun laws. Also, AG Reins decision was also influenced by recordings made if Koreans conversations inside the compound during the standoff. The USG had taped phones and planted spike microphones so the “rumors” of abuse were based upon those recordings. Several FBI agents were injured trying to rescue kids from the burning building.
FBI was never trying to rescue kids or anyone else, the last thing they wanted was survivors who could become witnesses against them. The majority of the kids were placed in a large cooler covered with wet blankets in an desperate attempt to save them from the poison gas and incinerator bombs.
We are lurching and staggering to open (un)civil war perpetrated by a major political party and its minions. Its presidential candidates openly call for confiscation and gulags for anyone that opposes them.One shithead even called for the use of nukes on citizens that fail to comply. God help the Republic.
It is preposterous to say that only congress, and not the federal agents, were to blame for this tragedy. Members of Congress may well have ordered the siege, but it was literally the federal agents that set fire to all those children. It’s time everybody comes to terms with the fact that anybody who will enforce unjust laws is every bit as much an enemy of free people as the lawmakers that write such laws.
If ‘We the People’ don’t get our education (indoctrination) system turned around, this country will go the way of socialism, just like Russia, Germany and China did. Germany largely recovered because the U.S. was still free and supported freedom in the 1940’s. The reason our education system is now ranked something like 34th internationally is because the lefties have taken control of it a bit at a time since the 1960’s. The students from kindergarten through post-grad school are taught that our country is based on racism, that socialism is the best form of government and more time is spent on anti-American indoctrination than on any real education. Such subjects as math, history, English language and other things we used to consider common sense are largely ignored. Millions of students come out of school prepared to be leftist political activists. Very few come out of school with the knowledge and skills to become a successful adult unless they learned it from their parents. Thus our government propaganda centers generate a couple million new socialists annually. Check out AOC. The leftists control our colleges, our public schools, the companies that write text books, etc. If we don’t turn it around the output of those schools will be the majority and those of us who believe in individual freedom will be a minority. After that, voting won’t help us. Support Turning Point USA http://www.tpusa.com … and vote. If the Democrats win, we lose.
Shades of 1945 at Nuremburg…. “I was only following orders…”
Just what i was going to put to paper, thanks for that as the excuse is just that “an excuse”
At the time of the raid I was working in law enforcement in Texas.
I remember following the incident very closely and thinking–If my agency had done something like this , we would probly be hammered by the D.O.J for civil rights violations at the very least.
Let’s discuss the facts that seemed to have remained under the rug.
“Beto O’Rourke is a Democratic congressman from Texas whose history includes arrests for both DWI and burglary.”
You can’t secure a job with a DWI or burglary charges, How is it that he missed any scrutiny from the citizens and press?
Thanks for your story although it lacks more of the background from the locals standpoint and their attempts to stop the Federal Government.
The underlying premise of your story indicates to me that all the Government needs to do is add a label “to” and we just roll over and allow whatever to happen.
Beto was never charged for burglary, just arrested. His DWI was deferred. People with DWI conviction have jobs all over the world. O’Rourke has NO DWI conviction because of the deferral and no charges for burglary. Beto is still a low life democrat, there’s just no getting past that. But every democrat running for president is for confiscation.
2 of the ATF agents killed during that first attack were former Clinton Body Guards while he was Governor of the state of Arkansas.
“They are without exception committed patriots who view their mission to protect the public while respecting individual rights as a holy thing.”
I’m sure many of the BATF agents you know are standup people, but if they really are Patriots like you said in the above quote, they would not enforce the tripe Congress puts out and would actively work against it, especially in cases where the owner of an unregistered MG is only committing the “crime” of possessing one or the parts to make one.
THANK YOU. EXACTLY what I was going to quote and say. Everyone is ‘great’, ‘a patriot’, ‘stand-up guys’ – until they’re….
“just following orders”
Remember the Santayana quote. It’s coming, gang – and ‘conservatives’ won’t lift a finger to stop it, because a government does NOT want an armed populace.
I had an outstanding company commander when I was stationed at Ft Stewart so many years ago, he pounded into our heads that “Just following orders ” will take you only so far and if we were told to confiscate or even enter civilians homes we were breaking our oath. He made us memorize our oath and told us that it takes a real soldier to follow our oath and risk disobeying an illegal order. I hope there are still officers that share that with their soldiers.
Once the communists get their way (as they are now doing so in VA) there will be repeats of Ruby Ridge and Waco. Once the siege begins, every gun owner and patriot within a 100 + mile radius should immediately descend upon the sight fully armed and ready to exercise their 2nd amendment DUTY in exterminating any and all domestic enemies. Enemies that would destroy this great Republic and it’s founding documents. Simply “following orders” ain’t gonna cut it as an excuse. I believe our next Lexington / Concord will be RICHMOND, VA and the new King George is Gov. Blackface Northam.
Treason trials for those who survive then the rope or the pistol
I hope people can read this and understand how important our freedoms are and that the Amendments to the Constitution do not give us these freedoms. The Amendments acknowledge them. We have plenty of cowards wanting our vote who will gladly take our freedoms in an effort to protect themselves. When we vote, we need to pay attention to these individuals and vote against them.
The principle of which you describe is 100% true and I 100% support it. The reality we see is a different animal though. We are faced most often with the choice of degrees – dumb & dumber. Therefore, we pick and vote for the one that seams to best represent our views. But either way, it can be a crap shoot….
“…the Amendments to the Constitution do not give us these freedoms. The Amendments acknowledge them.” Actually, the Amendments do more than acknowledge them, they prohibit the government from taking them away. They acknowledge that these are God-given rights (and enumerate them), not government-given rights.
Another great article/ history lesson! I really enjoy reading these. Thank you
As Ronald Reagan, once said, ‘ nine words a U.S. citizen should fear the most..’ I am from the Government, and here to help…’
Lest we forget,
Ronald Reagan is the one that signed the Mclure-Volkmer Bill on May 19th 1986………