We got a first hands-on look at the newest in an upcoming family of CZ pistols, the CZ P-10 C or Compact. The CZ P-10 C is a polymer-framed striker-fired mid-size service pistol that aims to outperform even the most competitive and featured next-generation poly pistols.
“It may have taken a while to come to market, but we feel the wait has been worth it,” said CZ in the official announcement. “With CZ reliability, engineered ergonomics and a bevy of features both familiar and new, the P-10 is the complete package.”
It’s true, the pistol looks like it’s a real problem-solver. The P-10 C built with concealed-carry, home defense, competition and duty in mind. The P-10 C sports fully-ambidextrous controls with magazine and slide release buttons on both sides. The slide and frame have a familiar profile and are compatible with “common” holsters. The magazines are similar, too. Standard magazines offer a 15+1-round capacity and extended magazines will provide 17+1.
According to CZ the striker-fired P-10 mag bodies are the same as the hammer-fired P-07 and P-09 design. They are backwards-compatible with the earlier P-series pistols. The main difference is a new cutout pattern for the new magazine catch on the P-10.
CZ has three models in the works to launch with, the standard P-10 C, the P-10 C Flat Dark Earth two-tone model and the P-10 C Suppressor-Ready model. The company expects to have .40 S&W variants in standard black and flat dark earth out in mid-2017. The .40-caliber models will have a standard capacity of 12+1. All steel surfaces have a black nitride finish.
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Of course, the real difference between a leading service pistol and a commanding one isn’t going to be the feature set, it’s going to be the trigger. That’s where CZ expects to come out on top. The P-10 C trigger is short with a quick, positive reset and a 4-to-4.5 pound break. That’s on-par with custom carry aftermarket triggers and entry-level competition triggers.
Putting that in perspective, the bulk of today’s next-gen striker-fired service pistols have triggers that measure in the 5.5-7.5 pound range. A shorter, lighter trigger means more consistent accuracy and faster follow-up shots.
Testing in the real world will tell how well these promises hold up but this is CZ, one of the most trusted names in self-defense, competition and military firearms manufacturing. It would be surprising, to say the least, if CZ fell short.
The P-10 C’s other features are also very modern, including three interchangeable backstraps, front and rear slide serrations and 3-dot ledge-style night sights. These sights can be used as a hook for racking the slide one-handed. It has a squared trigger guard for shooting off barriers and a deeply undercut beavertail that stops at the rear of the slide.
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Specifications
- Caliber: 9mm Luger or .40 S&W
- Capacity: 15+1 or 12+1
- Weight: 26 ounces
- Barrel length: 4.02 inches
- Overall length 7.36 inches
- Height: 5.2 inches
- Width 1.25 inches
- Finish: black nitride
- Sights: three-dot steel
- MSRP: $499 up to $541 depending on the model
Other familiar components include an industry-standard takedown method with a pull-down locking piece and a singular passive grip safety as the only external pistol safety. The frame is equipped with an accessory rail and it has more aggressive checkering on the front- and backstraps for comfy carry and good control in the hand at the same time.
The CZ P-10 is something of a spiritual successor to the P-07, CZ’s extremely popular polymer-framed hammer-fired pistol. It’s not the first polymer striker-fired pistol CZ’s ever made; back in the mid-’90s CZ introduced the 100-series, which never saw much success. Like the P-07 the P-10 is a capable and economical all-purpose pistol. With MSRPs starting at $499 real-world prices are likely to be extremely affordable.
If the P-10 series is half as good as the P-07 was when it first launched then the P-10 is guaranteed to be a solid and long-lived success for CZ with CZ shooters around the world. We’ll get a review to you as soon as possible — we’re just waiting on the pistol, due just around the corner.
According to CZ’s Zachary Hein the P-10’s availability is “imminent.” The .40 S&W models “Are expected mid-2017.”
I would buy this today it is had a crimson trace trigger guard type laser available. Reason, I’m 60 and need reading glasses, I can no longer focus on gun sites. A laser solves this instantly. and, NO other type will do except the crimson trace trigger guard style with a activation button just under the trigger guard. I have this laser on a Keltec PF9. It is a godsend. I want this CZ as a house gun, and yes I have a mossberg 500 but I cant have these things all over the house so pistols, like this are needed. My very first gun I shot at 9 yrs old with my dad was an ancient all steel CZ. I want to “come home” and own a new CZ. My dad passed in 2013 and I was able to retrieve the old metal CZ and it is with me now but it is not up to home defense duty.
Not a guns smith here, but wouldn’t a grip safety ala Springfield XD solve all the worries except trigger discipline during the draw ?
not an XD fan at all….but if this P-10 had a grip safety, i’d be all over it
I do not think this is going to have a grip safety. I am not a gunsmith as well. I can not think of a pistol other than XD that has that feature avail.
I’ve personally never had safety issues with pistols like this. A very aggressive memory pad on the frame for your trigger finger helps a lot. Ill put a strip of grip tape on a frame if it doesnt have one.
If you want the grip safety then buy a 1911 type pistol. That should solve your safety issues. Glocks wouldn’t be the most popular pistols in the world if they had a grip safety. Just keep your finger off the trigger or any other piece of clothing off the trigger and it won’t fire. Sorry for the preaching but it seems you don’t understand the Glock type trigger system. This gun is nothing new just another Glock copy but it’s a CZ pistol and that means a lot to me.
I am sure CZ will make a full size (4.60) barrel soon also and a competition model of 6″.
who cares I want a 9mm compact asap where can we get them?
If you want one bad enough it looks enough like a CZ-75 P-09 that a set of springs from CZ-75 P-07, a saw, a good gunsmith and not much more than $1,000 in labor and maybe less should get you one. I would do some measuing before I tried it. it would depend on how much trouble it is to cut a section out of slide and weld it togeter and get it shoot straight afterwards. A CS 10 will take a CZ 75 P-07 magazine if you cut an extra notch in the magazine. In fact it will take any CZ-75 magazine with the notch cut in it they just fit loose.
I expect a Compact will be along soon.
Combined with the CZ-75 P-09, P-07 and now the CZ 10 CZ has a trigger for everyone. A great Single action only to carry Cocked and Locked in the P-07 and P-09 that normally come single/double action with the Omega trigger and now a striker fired trigger. They can reach back in the play book and come up with other triggers that have safeties, safety/deockcers, long pull Double action only triggers, etc if the order is big enough.
For life and death are one, even as the river and the sea are one. Khalil Gibran
This actually looks like a promising design and not JUST a marketing ploy by CZ. The superb trigger it supposedly has would be a big advantage over Glock. The only negative is that CZ magazines are pretty expensive compared to $25 Glock magazines and CZ parts aren’t as plentiful.
Mec-Gar mags for the “P” series CZ’s are in the 25 buck range if one shops discount sources…
“Untold hundreds of people have been maimed or killed because of this unsafe design.”
Hundreds? Probably more like a dozen, if that. All firearms have safety considerations but that does not mean that they are unsafe to the point of being defective. If there was an internet back in the 1870’s I’ll bet some blogger would claim the Colt SAA was defective because some dumb cowboy could forget to carry with an empty chamber under the hammer. If there was an internet in the 1940’s someone would post about the GI who forgot to engage the thumb safety on his 1911 when the hammer was cocked. There is no gun ever made or can be made that will not accidentally discharge if safety rules are not followed. Moreover, the “unsafe Glock” arguement plays right into the hands of the anti-gun groups who claim that ALL guns are inherently unsafe and therefore need to be banned.
I’m a big fan of the CZ75, but I like this. Being a CZ fan I would purchase this over a Glock if this was the type of hand gun I was looking for.
Working in a retail shooting sports store I see and handle lots of good Poly Guns of which this seems to be another thrown into the mix. I predict this, and other new poly guns, will bring lower prices over all in that type of gun market. Gun owners with multiple guns seem to be looking for something different. Every manufacture has it’s loyal customer that buy anything they build .While it may very well be a great gun it must have something different to attract others who have a safe full of the same style guns.—— mike
Just another fugly ugly Glock knock-off–I much prefer my grey Po-7 !!’ DMD
Looks like CZ was impressed by, and heavily influenced by the Walther PPQ M2 .45.
It looks just like a S&W M&P. Ive always wanted a 75 though, im currently in the market for a compact 9mm to replace my current ccp, xd service model. I love the xd, but the one i have isnt ideal for a ccp. Ive narrowed it down between the 75 compact, the fns-9c, or the Ruger American compact. The ruger american is a incredible gun, but i think im gonna end up with the fns-9c, it just fits what im looking for a lil bit better, plus you cant beat its rep.
As a retired senior citizen whose hands have grown weak from inactivity etc the Glcck method of take down for cleaning etc gets poor marks.
Where’s the rail for my green laser?
Thumbs down big time.
1. Another unsafe copy of the unsafe Glock. No manual safety which is the same as carrying around a revolver with the hammer cocked back.
2. If its a pre-loaded striker fired weapon than it has an inferior ignition system like the Glock. Doubt my word then seat a high primer in an empty case and try and fire it off. It will not. Then try this with a hammer fired gun, it will.
3. Unsafe takedown system. They copied the Glock and when you attempt to take off the slide you must run the slide forward and then pull the trigger. Forget just one time to check the chamber and you shoot yourself or someone else. This does not happen with a gun which you have to lock the slide back to take it down. Now think about this.
4. If the bottom of the slide has an open firing pin channel like the Glock then it will let in excess dirt and lubricant, result is a misfire in extremely cold weather or if the gun is dirty or both.
5. No visible or felt loaded chamber indicator, (no the extractor sticking out does not get it)
6. No way to safely de-cock the gun, you must take the live round out of the chamber. Thumbs down on that one too.
This is where education comes in handy.
1. It is a not an unsafe firearm. A firing pin block physically locks the firing pin. Even as a revolver with the hammer back can have a firing pin block. This means I could literally use the firearm as a hammer and if the trigger is not pulled, the firearm CAN NOT fire. Education my friend.
2. There is no difference in reliability from a striker system to a hammer system.
3. Per Glock manual : Unload firearm, then dry fire the gun, then pull the take down levers and remove slide. So this unsafe firing thing you talk about is just…. well… wrong.
4. No such situation as ever happened. Open firing pin channel has nothing to do with weather temperature.
5. You’re firearm is always loaded. You do not need a chamber indicator to know this.
6.Anytime you have a loaded firearm, to clear the firearm you taking a live round out of the chamber.
First off if you were a well read, well educated person you would have been following the tragic Glock story since the 1980’s. Untold hundreds of people have been maimed or killed because of this unsafe design. The Consumer product safety laws do not cover firearms which is absolutely insane. Currently the Massachusetts Attorney General is suing Glock to get ahold of their records in regards to their basically unsafely designed pistol and all the lawsuits that have come about because of this.
Fact: The New York Police Department demanded a heavier trigger for the unsafe Glock and Glock was forced to give this to them because of all the accidental shootings with their Glock pistols. Other police departments simply dropped the Glock in favor of more safely designed pistols. Massad Ayoob told of case studies where Police Departments switched over to heavy double action only pistols and accidents when down dramatically.
Fact. Your statements lead one to believe that people are all robots that are run by computer and never make a mistake due to fatigue, lack of attention, panic, lack of training, or under the influence of even over the counter medication, all of which can set a person up for an accident with a defectively designed unsafe pistol like the Glock.
The Passive firing pin safety you brag about has nothing to do with the unsafe design flaws that I mentioned which shows your complete lack of knowledge of how the Glock actually works and that your reading comprehension is at a very low level. And by the way Glock had a major recall (deceptively called an upgrade) when they admitted that their passive firing pins safety system could fail because of its defective design. But again this had nothing to do with my previous statements about its other unsafe design features but it does show that anything mechanical cannot always be relied on either but not having any of these other safety devices is even far worse and Glock does not have them.
My tests show that there is indeed a very large difference in reliability between pre-loaded striker fired systems and the hammer fired systems. Your statement speaks about striker fired systems not “pre-loaded striker fired systems” again showing that you are confused or have a complete lack of knowledge about the differences between a “striker fired system” and a “pre-loaded striker fired system”. I am not going to bother to explain the differences to you as due to your statements this would be way over your head.
Your statement that the open firing pin channel has nothing to due with climate change is sheer nonsense and shows a complete lack of understanding of how pistols work or even machinery in general works. When you have a hammer fired system with a closed firing pin channel that effectively seals off contaminants, excess burnt power, oil, grease or excess moisture as compared to the inferior open firing pin channel of the Glock which lets it all in, again it shows you have no experience with the operation of machinery at all.
Your mouthing of the take down procedure shows you are one of these people who fought laws against other safety devices like back up safeties on lawn mowers, safety glass in automobiles, mandatory wearing of seat belts etc. There are manuals and procedures for these devices too but when these safety devices are not available on the product people get killed and get hurt. Safeties are put on machinery for a reason, they save lives and the Glock has no manual or even a grip safety or a readily visible and felt loaded chamber indicator or a de-cocker either. When many competing pistols all have this the Glock company has no excuse at all for not having them too and this is exactly why the government needs to put guns under the Consumer Safety Laws too.
Another test called “The Moron Test” is to take a Glock or Glock copy and unloaded it completely. Then cock the gun, with no live ammo in the gun. Carry the gun in a pocket or in the waist band without a holster and see how long it takes for the gun to fire off the striker. Believe me this test wakes up even the Glock-o-Philes as to how unsafe this gun really is and how little they know as to how it actually works. There was one case where a lady cop slept with a Glock under her pillow and as expected the trigger snagged and the gun went off. This is just one example of hundreds and hundreds of accidental shootings with the Glock. Now you should not do this with any gun but in a war zone sometimes people do such things and a gun with a manual safety especially with one that has also has a hammer and a hard double action firing system would be way less likely to ever go off in such a desperate situation in a war zone. Do we really want our troops with this outrageously designed Glock pistol in their possession. Well it looks like the U.S. military is about to adopt the Glock proving once again that they often adopt firearms that should never have been adopted. The Remington 700 was another example of their genius supply clerks and their complete lack of knowledge of small arms. But that is another long sad story.
I forgot to mention the Glock has no magazine safety either, the Browning High Power had one 81 years ago. Does such a device save lives. You bet it does, but the Glock does not have it. There are untold incidents from Police, Military and Civilian files showing how many accidents happened when guns did not have this device.
Just because a lot of police departments suddenly adopt a pistol “because it has become fashionable”, or the Military because they never bothered to actually test a gun thoroughly does not mean that this new “latest and greatest” gun is the way to go. Look at how many Nations adopted the German Luger Pistol, one of the most unreliable auto pistols ever invented. And I might add it had no visible hammer either which also caused untold numbers of accidental deaths.
As the former news paper “Gun Week” stated some time ago, “Someday someone is going to get a “gun savvy lawyer” to represent them in an accidental death law suit and Glock is going to end up shelling out millions of dollars in restitution and the other companies that made look- a- like Glocks are all going to be scrambling for one of the biggest recalls in the manufacture of firearms history.
Another defect I forgot to mention in the Glock is that on the bottom of the grip behind the magazine their is an open channel or hollow that leads right up into the mechanism. Again if the U.S. Military adopts this gun think about how much dust would get into the gun with this type of design. Yes it could be sealed off but with that large plasticky tunnel sealed off it would result in moisture condensing inside the plasticky tunnel which would find its way into the interior of the gun.
The Glock was also banned from importation into many foreign countries because it did not have a manual safety. Glock then supplied such a factory equipped manual safety but to my knowledge never made it available to the civilian or police market. This is absolutely outrageous.
I might add that an excellent manual safety made by Cominolli can be installed by a competent gunsmith and still be warrantied by the Glock Factory. This safety can be left in the “on” position making the Glock way safer to load and to unload even if you accidentally snag the trigger when performing these operations. I have one on my Glock and no longer do I break out in a “cold sweat” whenever I handle by Glock pistol. What a great peace of mind this safety is. Once you have it installed you will say “good God why did I not do this sooner”?
In conclusion people are human beings and they make mistakes, fatal mistakes, but these mistakes can be lowered substantially with a properly designed weapon, many of which have been available to the public for decades so there is no excuse what-so-ever for the Glock not having at least some of the most critical safety devices such as a manual safety and a magazine safety and a visible loaded chamber indicator. And if they want to stay in business they are going to have to change the take down design as well someday and soon.
Too many words!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and its only your opinion, which if memory serves are like ‘AH’s every one got one and yours stinks!!!!!!!!!!
I agree in part. I carry a Glock 26, Glock 19, and/or a DAO S&W M&P Bodyguard 380. I won’t even carry the S&W in my pocket without a holster. Those people selling those clips that you mount to glocks so you can stick the gun inside the waistband are preposterous, and one well known YouTube personality recommended it, and when I called him out on how unsafe that is, he said he’d been carrying it like that for four months without issue so it’s safe. lol.
That said, I don’t think the Glock is unsafe, I just think their claims are. I do have a dog in the fight, and I acknowledge that, but here me out. My factory Glock 26 has about a 6.5 lbs. trigger according to my digital Lyman scale. You know how triggers are, sometimes it pulls lighter, and sometimes it comes in above the 7 lb. mark. My Glock 19’s factory comes in between 5 and 5.5 lbs which is on the light side, so now I have a NY1 spring so my G19 pulls between 7-7.5 lbs. If I practice a lot with it, I can control the trigger as well as my G26, but when I haven’t touched my gun in a while, the G26 is much easier. I am not a trigger snob. I don’t care about stagginness, grit, or stacking, but I do care about the length of my finger travel to hook the trigger the way I like it, and I care if the trigger is too light or too heavy. To me, my Glock 26 is perfect when it hits 6-6.5 lbs. I put a 3.5 connector in my G19 before I installed my NY1 and I literally got it below 3.5. That is insanely light in my opinion, and the 4-4.5 lbs. of the CZ P-10 C is the only disconcerting aspect of the pistol.
That said, my beef with Glock is advertising it as “Safe Action” because you can read about reports like those three police officer, two of which had their drawstrings from their jackets fire the gun shooting them in the leg. The one deputy said his doctor didn’t know if he could save his leg for a day or two. No thank you. Another young man shot himself in the groin and bled out. Safe Action my ass. What people need to realize is that the pistol can ND or AD easier than most pistols, so you have to keep your finger off the trigger, but you also have to take care to clear any obstruction.
I contacted the Army general that made the suggestion to buy G19’s from Cabela’s instead of wasting more money on the MHS competition. I told him I recommended the Glock, but with a modification. I think they should install a striker status indicator like the one NDZ makes (http://www.ndzperformance.com/For-Glock-NDZ-SSI-Striker-Status-Indicator-p/glk-rp-ind.htm). I have it on my G26 and I ride it like a hammer when I holster the gun. In other words, I put my thumb over it so that if I was tired and/or careless and something like a drawstring got caught, I would feel the striker status indicator push into my thumb long before the trigger breaks. You still have to be careful drawing your weapon, but I’m more worried about holstering it. I also no longer carry my Glocks appendix. I’m fine with a DA/SA or DAO, but that’s where I draw the line now.
I don’t agree with everything Cisco Kid claims. But, I do agree that striker guns without safeties are kind of a weird anochronism in modern gun culture–one that goes more or less “unexamined” and gets a pass… just because no one said “no.”
A 4.25 lb trigger (which is what the P10 has; Glocks have 5.5lb)…… with no safety??? My Berettas have heavier SA triggers than that. How did we ever come to believe that’s a safe way to carry a gun? Anyone who stops to actually think about the implications of sticking a SAO gun in their pants with no safety will probably come to the same conclusion: these guns need effing safeties. Or decockers. Or SOMETHING.
So, CZ. Do us a favor. You made an excellent gun. Offer an option with a freakin’ safety. For those of us who want to have some remote shred of a margin for error… when we put a loaded weapon in our pants. To CK’s point: we’re not robots. Humans will, do, and always will have some propensity for error. And, beyond that, there will always be certain unforeseen factors that you have to contend with while holstering, handling and firing a gun. That’s the REAL tactical reality. So give us a striker fired gun that recognizes the truth in that.
Or… just buy a Walther P99 AS. I guess. What a striker fired gun should be, in my opinion.
Thanks for the link and info on how to best use the NDZ SSI – Striker Status Indicator Rear Slide Plate. VERY important mod IMO. I thought I knew all the mods. I know NDZ but must have missed this great item. It will be mandatory from now on for my Glocks.
Site sources for your “Facts”
When Cisco said the government must put guns under the control of the Consumer Product Safety Commission I wondered why he carries a gun. A gun that the government safety authority, the CPSC has not approved would likely be unsafe. It might discharge when the user pulled the trigger. Safety interlocks are not meant to take the place of education and training. Is Cisco’s goal to Idiot proof pistols ? The 10 gun safety rules will prevent accidents if followed. But if the gun is in the hand of an idiot, anything unsafe may occurr. If the gun user can’t read the manual, then what ? Is it the guns fault if the user carries it in Condition 1 in a pocket full of wire, nuts and bolts and a discharge occurs? At some point personal responsibility must be final arbitor, not government minders. If the CPSC ever became responsible for firearm safety, I would imagine each gun would have a fabric tag attached with safety and operating instructions, and a warning notice not to remove the tag under penalty of imprisonment, signed by Chuck Schumer.
Cisco you should not be allowed to touch a firearm. Oh also, I now understand why people from Massachusetts are called massholes
Hey Cisco, don’t like guns don’t buy one, carry it in a holster or if your gonna put it in your pocket use a pocket holster. Common sense goes a long way which is non exsistant with liberals. Your just a left wing troll who probably doesn’t own or like guns, remember the simple phrase, don’t like guns don’t buy one, and don’t bother those of us who do like guns.
I think you’re a pussy. I buy guns to kill, not for your fucking safety. Biased prick with your superior attitude – just shut the fuck up and shoot instead of droning on about a gun you don’t even have or will have. I don’t usually read or comment on assholery like this, but just accidentally scrolled down to see you going on a rant like Gaston Glock raped you and your family and stole your manhood. Just the type of guy at the range that’s the fucking know-it all prick that spouts his opinion off to everyone. Concentrate on getting laid why don’t cha!
Idiots should stay away from glocks
You both have good points. I carry Glocks 26 and 19, they are not as safe as advertised, nor are they as dangerous as Cisco believes. NDZ Performance makes a striker status indicator for Glocks that I use. I ride it like a hammer as I holster my weapon to prevent any ND that might occur if I’m not careful enough reholstering. The wonderful Walther PPS has this feature and I really like it. It would be nice if these were made for all striker fired guns IMHO.
Wow…got your firearms knowledge off the interwebs did ya?
Easy solution. If you feel the firearm is “unsafe”, DON’T BUY ONE! Have you even shot the P-10?
Unsafe? What kind of rookie shooter are you?
Kudos to CZ…. While I prefer metal guns it’s nice to see them expanding their line. CZ Rammi is favorite semi-auto for CC. Now if they would just make a 10mm!
“It has a squared trigger guard for shooting off barriers” – What does this mean? I thought the squared off trigger guard was to facilitate the use of the weak hand forefinger in a now defunct handgun gripping scheme. Am I supposed to be jamming my trigger guard into a doorpost when I shoot? Is that why Glock refused to round off the front of their trigger guards all these years?
I live and learn!
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I perferr steel g all steell
I perferr all steel Handguns . like single action autos. than da/Sa.
This gun may be great and I may actually own one some day, but it sure doesn’t break any new ground in the looks department.
So many of these plastic, striker-fired guns look like they were designed to be issued to a law enforcement department – all peas in a pod. Maybe that’s why it’s all the rage to mill these see-through holes in Glock slides?
Although I prefer a hammer to a striker, I will give this pistol a looksie. I am interested in how the trigger feels, and if it’s any good… oh jeez CZ, just take my money- since I already own most of your catalog anyway! You had me at “fits my P-07 holster”! The perils of being a CZ fan boy, I guess…
Its a nice looking gun but what is the working conditions in hot cold wet sandy muddy condtions that the glock performs so well in.
Plus its comming up 3rds short in mag capacity as well as comming stock with only two mags
And a msrp at same to more
For less
Its a nice looking gun but what is the working conditions in hot cold wet sandy muddy condtions that the glock performs so well in.
Plus its comming up 3rds short in mag capacity as well as comming stock with only two mags
Does anyone know if the sights on the suppressor ready model are tall enough to use with a suppressor? They look like they might mot be from the photo.
They sure look like standard “battle” sights to me. I can’t figure out why manufacturers do that, provide a factory threaded barrel along with un-usable sights. My next purchase will be an FX 45 Tactical. Everything that you need is included.
They will most likely ship with the same suppressor-height sights that come on the Urban Gray P-07/P-09, although the first variation of the P-09 with a threaded barrel shipped with standard sights. I find that weird too.
Also, I’m guessing that is a typo regarding magazine capacity. Standard mags hold 15 and extended mags hold 17, not 12…
I would guess the raised tritium sights would come standard on production model suppressor ready P-10 like they did on my urban grey SP-01 tactical.
The magazines are 15 and 17 for 9mm and 12 for .40 cal. (+1 of course)