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The Slide Fire SSAR-15 is just a plastic replacement stock for your AR. It has no springs or moving parts. The recoil of the gun bump fires the next round when you hold you finger accross the trigger on the finger rest. |
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These two pieces and an Allen wrench are the whole slide fire kit. It installs in one minute with no special skills. |
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This finger rest is the key to firing the Slide Fire. You have to focus on keeping your finger on that rest. |
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Our STAG AR uses a flathead screw to hold the grip on. Many ARs use a long Allen wrench and one comes with the Slide Fire. |
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Be careful when you remove the hand grip. On the side you can’t see here is a spring that holds tension on the safety and it falls out. |
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This is the safety spring. |
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The block that comes with the Slide Fire holds that spring in. |
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Lift the retention pin to release your adjustable carbine stock. |
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This is the retention pin on the Slide Fire. It also can be turned to lock the sliding action. |
Slide Fire Solutions
https://www.slidefiresolutions.com/
I’d like to start by saying that this product is going to shock you like nothing you have ever seen. I don’t know what the future of it will be, and I don’t think that anyone does at this point. At present it comes with an ATF letter saying that it is a legal AR-15 accessory, and several thousand have been sold. The use of “simulated automatic fire” here are my words, not those of the manufacturer. There isn’t going to be any way to get around what this thing does and I think it is best to call it what it is.
The Slide Fire is a $369 replacement stock for your AR-15 that when used properly, simulates automatic fire. Since the invention of the semi-automatic rifle people have been learning to do what is called “bump firing” the gun. You hold the gun in a loose way and allow it to rock back and forth against the trigger finger, which simulates automatic fire. It is fun, but it burns a lot of ammo without any real ability to aim at anything.
The inventor of the Slide Fire, Jeremiah Cottle, a US Air Force veteran of three conflicts, took the bump fire concept and eliminated all of the variables that makes bump firing impractical. The result is a product that bump fires perfectly, is completely controllable, every time, with no special training. There are no permanent modifications to the gun and installation of the Slide Fire does not impair function of the rifle at all.
“The Slide Fire simply allows you to shoot as fast as you want to,” explains Mr. Cottle. “ You can shoot one round, 2 rounds, 3 rounds, 15 rounds or a full magazine. It isn’t governed by a mechanical auto-sear. There are no moving parts in the Slide Fire and no springs. You hold your finger on the trigger rest and push forward to fire the gun. It is not automatic. Nothing is automatic. You actively fire every round, and if you stop pushing forward or you take your finger off the trigger the gun stops firing. It just helps you fire the gun in semi-automatic very fast. You don’t need an auto-sear. You can fire the gun yourself as fast as you want. ”
If you have been around these parts a while you may remember another bump fire device that came onto the market in 2005, and that it too had at ATF letter when it first shipped. Several months down the road the ATF rescinded their letter and banned the device, which was called the Akins Accelerator. The customer list of the company was taken by ATF and every purchaser had to send back the springs from the device along with an affidavit that it was no longer working or something. I never got one and I don’t know about the operation of it and how it worked. But I do know that it was for the Ruger 10/22, not for an AR-15. I asked Mr. Cottle about his device and if he thought the same thing was going to happen to the Slide Fire that happened to the Akins Accelerator.
“I don’t think so,” he said, “but you never know. “ The major difference in the actual time-line of the invention is that Akins never sent the ATF the actual product that was sold to the public. The one he submitted was on a different gun at the time and it didn’t work very well. When the ATF later tested the consumer device it wasn’t the same thing that they had issued their letter on, and it worked really well, so they felt they had a perfect right to ban it outright, despite the letter. With the Slide Fire I sent them an early prototype, got the go-ahead from them, then sent the completed product when it was ready for the consumer market. They tested the actual stock that you buy and that is what they issued the letter on. There are no loopholes here. We followed the rules. If the ATF wants to now come and ban the Slide Fire, they basically have to modify the definition of a machinegun. The Slide Fire is simply a high quality 33% glass nylon AR stock with no moving parts, period. The only thing firing the gun is you. Nobody can predict what the ATF is going to do about anything, but from our side we have done everything by the book. ”
All we can do from here out is wish Mr. Cottle the best with his invention, and hope that the ATF lets us keep our cool toy. The invention came in the aftermath of three life saving brain surgeries after Mr. Cottle was injured in action during Operation Enduring Freedom. Forced to take some time off from life to recover he found himself back where his grandparents grew up, and with time to go shooting. The idea came from Divine Inspiration says Mr. Cottle, and he had a working prototype within two hours. Two years and 8 revisions made with rapid prototyping and the commercial version of the Slide Fire became a reality. It was officially released earlier this year.
Just How Good Is It?
This is the million dollar question of course, and the answer is more detailed that you might imagine. That is our resident US Army Sniper Ben Becker in the video, and it took him about 2 magazines to get the gun to run as quickly as you see there. The secret is that you have keep your finger on that rest that is on the other side of the trigger guard. Then you simply push the forend forward. The push motion becomes your trigger and as above, that push can be one shot to a whole magazine with complete control. It’s like push, puuush, puuuuuush, puush puush, puuuuuush and the rounds grind out. When you first try it, concentrate on the finger and keeping it down on the rest, as you see in the pictures.
Muzzle climb and accuracy are surprisingly manageable. Mr. Cottle claims that it is because of the ½ inch of travel in the stock. It does absorb some recoil, but the thinking is that the body naturally adjusts to the muzzle climb because of the time involved in the travel as well. It sounds like marketing bunk, but Ben and I recently shot a good deal of full auto weapons at range day before SHOT show and we both found that the Slide Fire on an AR was at least twice as manageable as a full-auto SCAR, and even the KRISS.
Function and Durability
As you can see from the pictures, the Slide Fire slides onto your standard M4 sliding butt-stock, over the tube that is already on the gun. The company suggests that Mil-Spec tubes are best because the stock will click into the 5th detent, whereas on many consumer ARs it will go into the 6th, which makes it feel not as tight. I forgot to check which detent it fell into on our STAG Arms AR-15 on which we tested. Also, some consumer ARs, most notably Bushmasters, do not have standard thickness tubes and they can fit tight, impairing function. Slide Fire Solutions sells replacement Mil-Spec tubes on their website that will fit any AR for only an extra $24.95. And it comes with the special wrench you need.
If you have an AR with an A2 type stock, the ones that look like regular rifle stocks and are not adjustable, Slide Fire will soon be selling a kit to convert your AR to the collapsible tube type with everything you need, including wrenches. The kit will I believe sell for only about $45.
My first question when I first saw the videos on the Slide Fire website was how durable is this thing? It is plastic after all, and there is a whole lot of shakin’ goin’ on. Mr. Cottle assured me that they had fired 25,000 rounds with the current version with no degradation at all. They have also run them over with trucks, pried them with bars, and they just don’t break. At the time of my interview Slide Fire had sold about 3,000 units, and to date none had come back. The small amount of customer service that the devices have required were generally about people who shot them too much without cleaning the guns, and the guns jammed. That didn’t happen in our STAG. It acted like it was built for the speed.
Lefties, you will be happy to note that there is left handed version of the Slide Fire, and you will need it to fire the device correctly. The finger rest has to be on the other side of the rifle for it to work. STAG is the only maker of lefty ARs and we had hoped to have some lefty video for the article, but the lefty gun didn’t get here in time. You’ll have to use your imagination.
You will not need a gunsmith to install the SSAR-15 from Slide Fire. It comes with a long Allen wrench to remove the grip screw (our STAG was a flathead) and the grip slides right off. The only thing you have to be careful with is the spring from the safety, which is held in by the grip on an AR. When you remove the grip the spring comes out. The Slide Fire comes with a block that goes over this grip holding rib, and the block holds down the safety spring. Then you just lift the nib that holds your stock in the detent on your AR, slide your stock off the back and slide the SSAR-15 on. It has it’s own lever on the bottom that holds the stock in the detent and when turned will also lock the stock stiff.
We only tested the right handed version, and only on a .223/556 AR. It does work on pistol calibers, but it does not work with .22LR conversions or uppers. There just isn’t enough recoil in the .22LR to make the gun work properly.
So dust off the reloading press guys and girls. As it says on the Slide Fire Solutions website, this product is known to cause uncontrollable smiles.
Slide Fire Solutions
https://www.slidefiresolutions.com/
I want to purchase the bump fire stock, what do I need to do?
Where can I buy one?
I WANT TO BUY THIS BUMP STOCH!~ 850 324 9301
Shop Gunsamerica.com. Search “bump stock.” Or click this link: https://www.gunsamerica.com/Search.aspx?Keyword=bump%20stock
Very interesting upgrade. And it’s available not only for the AR-15 but for AK-47 rifles as well. And still legal.
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Das hat nichts mit Bumpfire zu tun
Will the slide fire work on a sig sauer 5.56 patrol rifle ?
Stephen, I got the first letter and every one particular after EXCEPT Margaret Cho’s. Can you remedy that, please?
Ok for those complaining about this system being inaccurate follow this link.
http://youtu.be/s5AyjpiPhsU
Pretty much as accurate as full auto.
You guys have been arguing about this being banned for more than 3 years now and it is still legal – exactly because there is no mechanical, spring loaded device. I have two of them and the letters saying they’re legal. If they are ever banned – and I doubt it – mine will be grandfathered. If you want to spend 6 to 8 months and $200 for a tax stamp for a $12,000 to $25,000 gun, be my guest.
As to accuracy, it is much easier to hold on target than any legitimate machine gun other than perhaps a Kriss SMG. For under $1,000 – once we’re out of the current chaos – you’ll have a rock and roll machine that will give you the most fun you can have with your pants on.
Will this product work on an Armalite AR-10 in .308 cal.? I think I’ll get one in any case because I do have a S&W AR-15 in 5.56. But I would really like to have one of these on the .308.
I understand that the finger activate the trigger, but isn’t the concept to the bump not to allow the finger to pull all the way back, thus causing the full auto effect?
Would adding a small block behind the trigger have the same effect?
There is nothing illegal about this device. If any communist wants to argue that it is, then they would have to ban your fingers and belt loop too, because all it is-is a bump fire technique. I would advise the inventor to modify it to allow for conventional firing, so the operator chooses to bump or not too. That would secure his position against any communist worker. Communism is a disease, and apparently many people have it and don’t know theyre infected. its simple. This country was created for independence resulting from a million people who gave theyre blood. independence is freedom. co-dependence is communism. communism is oppression. when the shtf, which it will because of the commie king, I will play Born in the USA and not go quietly in the night. Good luck. And check yourself for communist infection.
They came out with the gen 2 model, I don’t think I will get one unless it’s a hundred bucks,”my friend owns a gun store” so sometimes we catch deals like that. We did shoot it, it is quite accurate with a short learning curve. It’s quite easy to fire nearly any amount you want to, once you get used to it. And accurate.
To me it wastes too much ammo, Being retired and carrying 40 years now, I really have no use for it. But I do defend the rights of others to own it.
As long as it’s legal we have the right to buy and posses things in this country. The fact that you may not like it, has little to do with anything.
The only time I see a use for it would be to lay down cover fire in an emergency situation.
I just got my slide fire SSAR – 15 SBS for my DPMS AR-15.Its fucking great i love it.I clock 30 rounds in 2.76 seconds.
Where can I buy one? I’ve been searching everywhere for 1?
I did return mine.
It seems that if you have the aluminum detent buffer stop, (all Bushmasters have them) the slidefire device will shear it off as it did in mine (send me an email and I will send you a copy of the damage it did and bill)
it is because when the device operates, there is a little side-to-side action that just wears out that detent pin cause catastrphic failure after a couple of hundred rounds.
If it hasn’t happened yet, it will!
BEWARE!!!
All I have to say, is that if you can do ANYTHING without the ATF being involved, the better off you are. The only time I would ever need an automatic rifle like that is if the end had come. (define as you wish) Then, not even the ATF will give a shit. They will be taking care of their own families. At that point, an automatic weapon will be something that could benefit you. Really? Not sure. Ant good gunsmith, and a hydrolic bufgfer and I promise you, you will have an auto weapon. Thats one thiung I dont see talked about. The buffer. A stock AR Buffer is not going handle full auto fire. Any gunsmith will tell you that. The need for a hydrolic buffer becomes easy to see. Anyway, I dont want to let the ATF know what I have, EVER. Screw them….just stay legal. Besides, for a couple hundred bucks, if you really want a full auto AR, you can get you one. Just convert what you have. Dont recommend it, but it can be done. But just remember, if you get caught, you will never own another gun….legally.
Has anyone used the Slide Fire Stock specifically on a .223 AR-15 ? Is there enough recoil there to perform as in the videos? I heard it was tested but didn’t elaborat on the .223. Can someone help me out before I make this purchase?
That is the caliber used in the video, and is the standard caliber in an AR.
Don’t forget people i just installed mine on a smith & wesson m&p 15-22. Timney 3.5 trigger and a dremmel makes this 22 cal. rock. Even works with federal bulk ammo. Works better than a m11 with a lage manf. 22 upper receiver conversion. Its extremly accurate in full auto and cheap to shoot. My dreams just came true!!!
to the administrator:
is this site for discussing firearms or venting one’s spleen. Forget the slide fire device, the hate and nastiness on this forum is enough to fuel the agenda of the anti-gun groups.
In some cases letting the morons speak just makes them look worse.
i purchased my ssar15 stock when they first came out i remember hearing a buzz about them waiting to get one and then i finally got mine. i live in new york and have shot mine alot and have never been questioned about its legality, the thrill eventually wears off but its still cool to play around with every now and then and this thing works amazing! the greatest part for me is actually trying to do smaller controlled bursts with it and of course ripping out a 30 rd mag is still cool but gets expensive so i stay with burst shooting. I am now the proud owner of the slidefire ak47 model which i installed on my saiga 12 gauge (which took alot of modding to make it fit)just because it is twisted i havent pulled the trigger on it yet im actually a lil nervous about it.my thought on these is that they will flood the market and get old fast and people wont really use them alot cause the ammo is expensive . also i hope no dumbass tv show such as (sons of guns) gets ahold of these and does a show to draw all that national attention to it or some idiot committs a crime with a slide fire stock that would definitly get it banned in ny
More people read GunsAmerica than watch any of the cable shows.
They need to make a SlideFire for the SKS. It would sell like hotcakes !!!!!!!!!!
This bump device does not work with a 120 round drum full of .223
With the drum the AR is too heavy as with most bump fire setups.
Who sells the slipe stock “bumpfire” for the best price? For M-4 223 and AK-47s..And how durable are they?
It doesn’t matter if its illegal. What Obama’s doing is illegal. We need this products to protect America from the socialist regime in Washington. For that reason alone you need to have it to take back God and America.
Fact: Full-auto has been effectively removed from the average civilian’s grasp by taxes, fees, restrictions, and artificial inflation (which is EXACTY what “they” intended). Fact: Full-auto has only limited tactical application in modern combat (since the expiration of trench warfare); i.e. suppressing fire intended “keep their heads down” whilst you manuever (it’s only other function is static defense, and that only works until the “appropriate amount of high-explosives” is applied). Fact: Full-auto is a largely unsustainable practice for anyone without an “unlimited” ammo budget (i.e. a government agency) and/or “unlimited” peon ammo-bearers (i.e. a government agency). Fact: While full-auto probably won’t intimidate zombies much, this thing will definitely piss off the Republicans, scare the hippies, and wipe out your ammo allowance.
That said, I just had to get one, unfired, but second hand, so hopefully I won’t end up on a list right away. What for/why? BECAUSE I CAN. My personal review; it’s ugly as all hell, for the most part more controllable/accurate that actual full-auto (practicing accurate 3-4 round bursts is useful and challenging), and a total ammo-burning, time-wasting, grin and giggle factory (no lie, made a very large and normally grumpy range buddy giggle like a teenage girl). So zombies hoardes, gun-snatching politicians, pot-smoking hippies, and my ammo budget can kiss my hairy butt. Get one while you can, be safe, be smart, and have fun. And try not to giggle like a teenage girl (unless you are one), that can make even you buddies feel VERY uncomfortable.
Interesting concept and interesting product. I am not sure how I missed this newsletter going back to March, but I was cleaning out my inbox and there it was.
Actually I am somewhat happy I found this email late, I am curious if this item has gotten banned yet. Not that I am for a ban or anything, but I wouldn’t be shocked if it did get banned.
Perhaps the price is so high to fund their legal team 🙂 Personally I have no use for bump fire, I can pull my finger pretty fast, especially with a timney, jewel or JP adjustable trigger in it.
Love the idea! But… Seriously?!? $369? They even say it is just a stock and a grip. Yes I understand what it does, but there no need to charge so much for a couple of pieces of plastic. Nice of them to screw over most that would be interested.
A bit late but this if directed to Joe Kansas.
“Fight back! Whenever you are offered violence, fight back! The aggressor does not fear the law, so he must be taught to fear you. Whatever the risk, and at whatever the cost, fight back!” – Col. Jeff Cooper
Looks like a hoot to shoot, but other a very expensive toy. Maybe Big Phil will buy one. Tom
If anyone is interested in the Slide Stock, please visit my website. If you refer 10 people who buy a stock, yours is free or if you purchased one, you will get a refund. Thank you for your support.
http://www.tacticalrapidfire.com
In order to fire this the perfect amount of pressure must be maintained with the non trigger hand on the barrel. I believe this would be impossible to maintain this pressure in anything but a relaxed non-walking environment. Certainly you could not do it while running, dodging oncoming fire or highly excited. Too much pressure, and no rapid fire, too little and no rapid fire! A real machine gun could be rapid fired while running, constantly moving, etc. The Government has no real reason to fear this device, as the use of it requires one to be a very still target for a well placed return fire! It does however allow a lawful citizen the thrill of rapid fire for entertainment without being a legitimate danger to the public over ordinary semi-automatic fire! Just my thoughts on why this may remain legal!!!
That’s great, but I have one question….have you ever seen ANYONE in full autofire, runnung, ducking, and jumping obsticals and being shot at, actually fire it accurately consistantly? HELL NO! It’s not even made for that! I hope that everyone here actually knows what “full auto fire” is for without having to post it here. If not, they shouldn’t even be posting here….nuff said.
God Bless America!
I lean toward the argument that criminals are already packing weapons, regardless of gun laws.
I do see this getting banned, but I’ll be darned if I won’t squirrel one away after a gun show.
-t bag
I have a slide fire on my M&P 15, wish I would have bought one sooner. The only problem I have now is keeping enough Ammo on hand.This is the most fun I have had with any of my fire arms. I woud highly recomend this to any one out there who wants the next best thing to FULL AUTO!!!!
I agree you should take time with your shots and not waste ammo, But sometimes you just want to feel the Full-Auto F*** yeah! And that’s where this can be fun.. if you got the money to waste ammo that is.
Some of you talk about spraying led and not hitting anything? Train yourself, I didn’t know one grunt that was firing an M-16 that wasn’t on full auto when the shit hit the fan! If what you say was true, none of the enemy would be dead! Semper Fi
stayer…thats alot of rounds…i took my slide stock out to the range for the first time today and totally digged it. I put 100 rounds through it at 25 meters. I loaded 3 rounds at a time and after about only 7 or 8 cycles my groups were solid center mass. Im not saying this thing is for everyone but if you are comfortable handling your weapon, you will have no problem using the slide stock accurately…then again, i only fired 3 rounds at a time. Next time i fire it, i will increase the load and get a better feel for how to operate it effectively while putting more rounds down range…I hope they dont ban it before i can really get the hang of it
I equate the legality of this particular item with Tannerite; a product which explodes when impacted with a rifle round of .223 cal or greater and is ATF approved. You can even buy a generic version of this non-explosive at Cabelas.
I believe strayer99 to be a troll. There’s no timing involved troll boy. Just pull and fire.
OUCH, Chiller! It’s just “push” and fire!
we’ve tried this thing and it does have a semblance of control of fire…but with lots of practice. it’s bump fire but it allows you an amount of control because of the shoulder rest. i’m not saying it’s great but i’d say about 35 percent better than just regular bump fire. it took me and a buddy about 1200 rounds to get the right timing and we were keeping our bursts to between 3 and 6 rounds and at center of mass at about thirty yards. this is not for the novice shooter though and i kind of warn them about that. although it can be learned, it needs patience and some money to get used to.
Gee, that’s NOT what the Administrator here said…………….he said it only took (and I quote) “it took him about 2 magazines to get the gun to run as quickly as you see (in the video), AND “The push motion becomes your trigger and as above, that push can be one shot to a whole magazine with COMPLETE CONTROL.” AND “the Slide Fire on an AR was at least TWICE as manageable as a full-auto SCAR, and even the KRISS.”
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it. You can’t argue with first hand experience (unless of course you’re a moron)……are you?
is this setup leagal in newyork state since you need a 6 point buffer tube to make it work?
Actually a 5 point buffer tube works better….PLEASE READ THE REPORT ABOVE BEFORE SPEAKING jOHN….GEEEEEZ…..
The ATF would ONLY be able to ban this by completely changing the definition of what a fully automatic weapon is.
Man the amount of paranoid FUDDs in these comments is pathetic.
Sorry to inform you AR DUDE, but if the BATFE were to ban the Slide Fire Solutions Stock you would not be able to pay for a transfer tax stamp as this would constitute a “newly manufactured machine gun”.
Since the passage of the Hughes amendment in FOPA of 1986, all “newly manufactured machine guns” are to be restricted to government and military use only.
I myself am looking forward to obtaining one, just for kicks. Let’s face it, this really is the “Poor Man’s” M-16 and I for one am appreciative of this as I, admittedly am not that wealthy, and therefor, cannot pay 15K-20K for any firearm.
To Joe Kansas, if you should one day grace this forum again, let me impart this thought upon you, that the idea to regulate this stock is not entirely logical in it’s application for the following reasons…
1)Automatic weapons are not the firearms of choice among the criminal scum of the nation. That honor belongs to our little friend, the handgun.
2)Firearms are already controlled to great extent by a multitude of federal, state and municipal laws.
3)If I were a criminal intent on obtaining a machine gun, instead of paying $370 for this stock, I would pay the extra $200 and convert my AR platform into a true M-16. And obtaining the components to perform such a conversion isn’t difficult. In fact they are readily available on the open market.
The fact that few criminals even bother evidences itself upon the fact that, according to DOJ statistics, automatic weapons account for less than 1% of gun crime perpetrated in the U.S.
So regulation of a “Bump-Stock” would be entirely unnecessary.
Now let us hope that the ATF doesn’t have a “change of heart!”
Just because I can doesn’t meen I should, bud I did because I can. The thing works great… “as advertised”. If they make it illegal, I’ll pay my $200 for a stamp and keep it. I have 3 ARs already. I look at it as a toy, not my home defense weapon. BTW, it is actually fairly accurate and manageable. 3 rnd bursts are uber easy and on target.
maaaaaaaaaaaaan, it doesn’t even matter what the ATF does about this. Just think about what the device does and use your imagination. I’ve seen a guy make his SKS full-auto with a length of shoestring. The “Hell-Fire Trigger” is still legal and works on exactly the same principle, keeping your trigger finger just a c#@% hair past the point where it releases the hammer, and letting the recoil reset the hammer.
I hope this doesn’t go down in flames like the Atkin’s Accelerator. The man made it, got a letter from the ATF saying it was legal, but then, they said they had recieved a “broken” piece and had to recall all the things he had sold because they were deemed Machineguns. I really hope for the best with this.
Andy Pandy, you are such a pompous ass. I’m going to quit these posts now because I can’t write a complete sentence and you gee golly gosh are an attorney. I just don’t stand a chance against such a loveable fuzz ball who has done soooo much reading and can spout all kinds of cases from your big ole law books.
As long as you believe that the opinions sent down by the supreme court are, by golly just the last word, you will remain an idiot and an obviously over educated blowhard.
If I have irritated anyone but andrew. I apologize.
Where can I purchase the SSAR-15 Bumpfire stock????
Bill,
Send me an email at [email protected], and I can get you what you need.
I have one of these and after a little bit of practice you can easily put the rounds in a 10″ circle at fifty yards. I have shot full autos and this does not have the “muzzle climb” that a full auto does. You can also shoot it as single fire, 3 round burst, 5 round burst or 30 round dump. You have the ability to do whatever you want. This is much more accurate than trying to bump fire from the hip. You also have to have a proper grip and shooting stance in order to make it bump fire. Until you have actually shot it, I wouldn’t say that it isn’t accurate. Go to YouTube and watch some of the other videos people have posted. Many of them are shooting at targets and putting the rounds in tight groups. I don’t think this will ever become my home defense gun, but it is a lot more affordable than the $15K for a Full Auto.
At least till April 2nd 🙂 Good one!
How quickly people forget.. Anybody remember the Akins Accelerator? The stock that simulated full auto fire for the Rugar 10/22.. The owner of the company (great guy), obtained an approval letter after his stock passed examination by the ATF. Production of the stock was in full effect and stocks were sold for $1200. Then it was rumored some legit ($3500 and up) full auto owners who were trying to protect their investments and asked the ATF for a re-examination of the stock. A reversel in the ATF decision then occured, No springs allowed was the determination. Since a spring was used as a main component for function, all customers were informed by the ATF that they needed to surrender their springs or they would be in possession of an illegal machine gun. Customers sent in their springs, The company quit production.. There went a business and my $1200 over a $1.00 spring. Once bitten twice shy.. I’ll sit on my money till time has tested this one.
First of all andrewwwwww. you are an idiot. If you think that a bunch of un-elected political hacks in black robes, send down what is in fact just their biased opinion is truth you’re also a moron.
Step away from your computer, do a bit of reading. Say the Federalist Papers or maybe the 2nd amendment again. If you need help with the arcane use of the English language, get a 3rd grader to help you.
Charles is correct and you need to grow a brain before you start calling people names. You also need to do some research on how and why the NFA and NYs Sullivan came into being.
Secondly Natediggity…… YEAH!
Actually, Tony Baloney, I’ve done a lot of reading on the subject of the Second Amendment. I’m an attorney, after all. And unlike you, I can also write in complete sentences! Now, you can bitch all you want about “un-elected political hacks in black robes,” but last time I checked the United States Constitution, there was a little provision in there for them. (Read Art. III, if you are curious). I would also direct your attention to the case of Marbury v. Madison, 1 Cranch (5 U.S.) 137, 2 L.Ed 60 (1803), but there are no pictures so you might not be interested. I’ll save you some time, and tell you Justice Marshall’s take-home message from that case: “It is emphatically the province and duty of the Judicial Department to say what the law is.” Now, Tony, I realize that this may be difficult for you to comprehend, so make sure you are sitting down. Ok. Now, get this straight: when you read the Constitution, you have to read ALL of it, not just the parts you like.
Now, you complain about those “un-elected political hacks in black robes,” but sometimes it’s nice to have someone who is “un-elected” watching your back. Case in point: five of those “hacks” recently did you a favor by ruling that the Second Amendment created an individual right (as opposed to societal collective right to have armed militias), and they also ruled that the Second Amendment applied to the states via the 14th Amendment’s Due Process Clause. Had the “D’s” prevailed in the presidential elections of 2000 / 2004, the result in Heller and McDonald would have been much different. You can put your faith in the politicians if you like, but frankly I think a three-branch system with separations of powers and checks and balances is a far better way to go.
Having said that, I can see you why you like Charles’ post. You clowns are the “Dumb and Dumber” of the gun blog commentator world. Charles is arguing that he won’t truly be “free” unless he can own a ZSU-23 and an M-1 tank so that his government will “fear” him. Hmmm. Ok. Whatever! Unfortunately, its retards like that which give gun owners a bad rap. You guys want the NFA (1934) or the GCA (1968) declared unconstitutional?!? Really? Frankly, I’m glad that wanna-be’s like you can’t buy an Oerlikon, a RPG-7 or a PKM at Wal-Mart. I’ve stated earlier that I was not a fan of the Hughes Amendment to the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986, and I regret that President Reagan signed it. However, most normal people have little quarrel with the NFA and GCA. Yeah, it sucks paying $200 every time I buy a silencer, SBR, or a machinegun, but I don’t see that unregulated ownership of machine guns and destructive devices is a great idea.
As for the Federalist Papers, exactly which provision(s) supports Charles’ position that the NFA is “unconstitutional”? And how exactly do you propose to get to that declaration / epiphany without the help of those “un-elected political hacks in black robes” that you seem to have so much distain for? Maybe America should make Charles and Tony Carlo the final arbiter of all things gun-related? Oh, wait, never-mind… that’s not in the Constitution.
The NFA is unconstitutional. You can use your word-thuggery all you want to justify it, but it is. Judges have been wrong before, INCLUDING the Supreme Court, and they are wrong now.
Cowards like yourself are why we aren’t free.
andrew said: “As for the Federalist Papers, exactly which provision(s) supports Charles’ position that the NFA is “unconstitutional”? And how exactly do you propose to get to that declaration / epiphany without the help of those “un-elected political hacks in black robes” that you seem to have so much distain for? Maybe America should make Charles and Tony Carlo the final arbiter of all things gun-related? Oh, wait, never-mind… that’s not in the Constitution.”
Ya have to go back to what prompted the United States vs Miller decision to find where the unconstitutionality comes into to play Mr. Lawyer. When you do this you’ll find Judge Heartsill Ragon made the “correct” decision when he declared the ’34 NFA unconstitutional.
Had the attorney who represented Mr. Miller and his acomplice been paid abit more than the couple hundred dollars in the United States District Court for the Western District of Arkansas, where Ragon expressed his “correct” opinion; he might of had the funds necessary to stand up for his client before the Supremes and perhaps the US attorneys would have not gotten away with the LIES they told in gaining reversal of Ragon’s decision, (or perhaps having a WW I vet like Judge Ragon on the Supreme Court, who actually knew that sawed-off shotguns were used as trench sweepers during WW I would have sufficed). Either way a decision reversed, based on a LIE does a “correct” decision make……IMHO.
I’m with those who don’t think but KNOW that US vs Miller was a farce.
whiffledust out
oops – In my post above, this should have read: Either way a decision reversed, based on a LIE does NOT a “correct” decision make……IMHO.
whiffledust out
Aim, WTF, if I wanted to aim, I will switch to single shot. This is for fun, I swear gun owners have to be the most pretentious people on the planet. THIS IS FOR FUN OR AN ABSOLUTE SHTF SITUATION. If you don’t like them or question their accuracy, STFU and return to the anal retentive 1000 yard exclusive club, some of use shoot for fun…………..why would you even post………….?
Even if is legal todays 5.56 surplus ammo runs around .46 cents a pop and that comes out to around $14 per mag.
If you shoot 10 mags thats $140 hard earn bucks plus $400 for the kit that may be confiscated one day by ATF.
No thanks, I don’t know about you but I rather spend the extra monies on ammos and single fire each shot…
If the ATF don’t ban this, I’ll be surprised, and they may not have to change the definition of a mg to do it. I expect they will find a way to put a broom handle through the trigger guard, hang the rifle pointing at the ground with a carefully figured weight on it, and get it to dump a mag with only one human initiated action to fire the 1st shot. Done. Banned. Bankrupt…
ROB…
it is not the Feds job to protect the people. Those who choose security over freedom deserve neither. Bloated government has made you think it is the feds job to protect you. And yes people need to wake up and secure themselves. the fed was designed to hold meetings leaving the free State to rule over the people, hence why most states have a constitution written as the federal version. If the people dont like the government they have the sole right to self governance or may form a new on. That is Colorado’s Law.
So what if the atf bans them, A background check and $200 stamp will make you legal. this is cheaper than $10,000
No, don’t forget the 1986 machine gun ban. You can’t register anything unless you’re a police officer. Which is BS. Police are just civilians with a badge.
I hope that you fellow are friends soon to be because there has been battles started for less good luck and remember when the 200 mil. people in a country this size have guns your gov. gets scared and they know the only way they can take them is to kill this fine country we live in. Don’t give them the rope they need to try.
I myself have an ar15 and have done the fullauto several times with a few friends .Havent any miltary or police experence but was able to hold a 12 inch group at 50 yards full auto. I also have a d34 and a g35 that I am able to put at least 10 rounde in the kill zone in less than 4 sec. But I have constantly put simi auto fire at 100 yards in the killzone chest and back to head 3 shots a sec. I’m not an expert but any one person with tallent can learn this because I did I’m 58years of age bad eyes But will do waht it takes to protect my country friends and family. I will not do anything that will draw att.to myself. If I had a full auto you would never know . My thoughts are to control the cruck buy making sure that every american carries and if your the bad guy you will have second thoughts. But if the dame thing is out ther you should be able to buy it. Why doy you think no other nation have tryed to envade the USA.
I would like to have one but I don’t want to be on anyones list. If I saw one at a gunshow I would put my money down and walk out with it.
I’d like to clarify something that a few of you don’t seem to understand. Ben is not shooting at targets in the video. He is demonstrating 1) that it works and 2) that it is controllable in a close quarters combat situation. Infantry 101 says you don’t use full-auto fire unless you are being overrun. Ben demonstrates, and I feel very effectively, what a close quarters combat situation looks like from the soldier’s perspective. You only use full auto on an entrenched enemy in movies. In real combat you use it only on an enemy that is in your face. Ben is showing you that the slidefire is extremely effective in a battle situation where you only want as many bullets downrange at one time as it takes to do the job.
Why would people who are advocating “buy a real AR” worry about this bump-stock imitation? Why do other people confuse their 2nd amendment rights with something to do with hunting? Why are people with law enforcement or military backgrounds so interested in you filling out the paperwork for a “real” AR? Maybe because they are the ones who will have to knock on the door to try and take them and it makes it easier if they know where they are located? There seems to be a real fear that the armed citizen can have a firearm that would be a weak rival to the LE or military model. Why is there such a fear in Government (local, state, federal) of an armed population? The Swiss have an assault rifle in practically every home and gun crime is almost non-existent. Ask yourself; “what is wrong with us”? When you know the answer you will know why a toy like this causes alarm for fans of Good Government.
First off a “REAL” AR as you put it is what a civilian can own. I think the word you were looking for on a full auto version is M-16, or M-4 both of which are full automatic weapons and not standard issue for civilian use. Nice play on words though to make a sporterized seem like a “Assault” rifle as most Libs. like to call them.
i want to buy one of these fuckers how do you get in touch with them to sell you one?
Mike
contact me…i can take care of you
[email protected]
At $369 it is one of the most expensive ‘stocks’ out there. I question why it has to be such an ugly pistol grip and stock in one molded piece? Perhaps the reality that the pistol grip ALONE is responsible for the ‘simulated auto action’ and nobody in their right mind would pay $369 for a pistol grip, hence the terrible design giving you more plastic for your money???
Somebody hack the PG off and see if it works with a regular stock….if so, give me a call when someone makes the $20 PG version…
Of course it doesn’t bonehead. The whole point is that the pistol grip and stock are one sliding unit.
On sale for $349 plus free shipping at Able Ammo
I would like to remind everybody that the 2nd Amendment gives American citizens the “right to keep and bare arms”. It does NOT say we have the right to keep and bare arms as long as they are not larger than .50 caliber or full auto. The 2nd amendment is very clear, so why have we allowed the government to regulate a freedom that we were guarenteed? The NFA, tax stamp, ban of full auto weapons, and ban of rifles over .50 caliber are all unconstitutional, but all of you seem to accept these laws as the bench mark for your argument. If you are a true patriot, then spend your energy fighting to repeal the NFA, because the NFA is what modern gun control is based on. As long as the NFA is allowed to remain law, you will never truly be free as our forefathers intended.
If you believe you are living free as our forefathers inteded, then why do you fear the federal government or the BATF thugs? The forefathers wrote that the government should always fear the citizens. So tell me, does the current Federal governemnt fear the citizens? Answer: No
If you don’t like that answer, then why don’t you something about it? Answer: Because you are afraid of the consequences handed down by the Federal government.
You are not free. The truth is that you are a servant to the Fed, and you have been manipulated into believing your are free. Repeal the NFA, and you will be on the path to living free like our forefathers intended.
Charles, your understanding of the Second Amendment reveals you to be a simpleton. When you say that the NFA is “unconstitutional,” you must have forgotten to read the recent Supreme Court decisions in District of Columbia v. Heller 554 U.S. 570 (2008) and McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. ___, 130 S.Ct. 3020 (2010). In Heller, the Supreme Court clearly stated the following:
Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.
We also recognize another important limitation on the right to keep and carry arms. [The] Miller [case] said, as we have explained, that the sorts of weapons protected were those “in common use at the time.” We think that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of “dangerous and unusual weapons.”
It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful in military service-M-16 rifles and the like-may be banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment’s ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks. But the fact that modern developments have limited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right.
If rights can be limited by the government then they are not rights.
Piss of antigunner scum.
ALL GUN LAWS ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
Need to bring some of these to chicago in time for dicks birtday
Poor Joe, you may not BE an anti gun freak, you just sound like one.
Back again. Geez, I started a tommy-gun fight of words.
First, my wife and I are both gun lovers and Front Sight members. So, ye who label me “anti-gun,” tighten up your logic. Not everyone who urges a caution about firearms can be painted “anti-gun.” (We just ordered a Glock 9 last night.)
Second: Yes, criminals would think twice about home invasions if more homes had competent gun-handlers in them. But–CONFINING OUR RHETORIC TO THE SLIDE FIRE–the places where a psychotic would take this is nine times out of ten to a McDonald’s, a classroom, office building, etc. NOT anyplace where you’d have your Slide Fire handy for defense.
Your point IS a great argument for legal concealed carry or visible holster carry, but it falls flat when applied to this murder machine.
If it continues to be allowed, Slide Fire will make it easi-ER for MORE criminals and crazies to get a functioning automatic weapon. And if you argue with the utter simplicity of that last statement, then…other issues are in play.
And my point was not to ban it, just to take steps to keep it out of the hands of criminals–as much as possible.
Joe I think the problem people have with you is that you don’t understand that it is already illegal for criminals to own guns, and it is certainly already illegal for them to commit crimes with them. Using the slidefire for a crime would be a matter of semantics for the press. You can fire plenty fast and more accurately with a semi-auto without the slidefire. The answer to the guy who walks into a classroom with intent to harm is to allow the teacher to carry a gun, not to try to control what gun a psychopath gets his hands on, and in what configuration. Historically an armed populace has reduced crime a great deal. I personally don’t feel that the slidefire is practical for home defense or anything besides open battlefield combat, including zombie and chinese invasion scenarios. For the vast overwhelming majority of us out here it is just a fun toy to take the range with our friends and enjoy what we love to do. Having this in the hands of freedom loving Americans most likely is making Thomas Jefferson smile in his grave, because the second amendment was as much to guard against government tyranny as it was about self defense. And that is probably why it will in fact be banned by the government.
To Joe Kansas: When are you going to get it through your head that LAWS DON”T STOP CRIMINALS! Laws deter those that abide by it. A criminal is someone who does not care what the law is they are going to do what they want. If people sound harsh when they talk to you it’s because they are getting fed up with you opening your mouth before you think. The kids that shot up that school in Columbine broke 18 gun laws just going into that school with guns, do you think one more was the magic number? Wait, I’ve got an idea, maybe we should make cocaine illegal! Oh, it is? well how is anyone using it then? Amazing!
they had one like that for the 10-22 awhile back. they were band by the atf shortly after…
Sorry guys, I am NOT interested in wasting THAT much ammo, (bullet hose) For ME? it is always been one shot one kill. Tell the BATF they can keep it!
This things a piece of crap. Don’t waste your money. Learn to shoot properly and don’t waste your ammo or your money on this stupid ass gimmick
I have to say I saw the video 3 times & it was very entertaining. Personally I’m a fan of a more adaptable, functional, & light AR. Along the lines of wieght I would assume alot of extra rounds that might not be on target & not worth loading myself up with. Also I don’t like the idea of “investing” in something that could be “banned” & is currently up in the air being judged by people who have been elected & or appointed with little or NO firearms knowledge. Now that I threw my two cents on the ground, I must admit that this could provide some with many hours of enjoyment, just save some green for the extra brass. This will be intresting to see how the stock plays out.
I recently had an opportunity to test out one of these stocks. I must say it is 100 times easier to operate than the traditional shoulder fired bump firing that I have been doing for the last 10 years. This stock does take the “technique” out of bump firing for the most part, and it is one of those “devices” that actually does what it says it will do. Unfortunately the BATFE have been known to issue an opinion one day, then change it later down the road like they did to Bill creator of the Akins Accelerator. Over the years I have been able to perfect the technique of bump firing from the shoulder. I doubt I will be spending money on another device to facilitate “easier” bump fire operations. I would much rather spend the three hundred plus dollars on ammo I could used to learn how to bump fire without a device.
Bottom line: Buy it with confidence that it works. Just be prepared that the BATFE could change their minds, and make it illegal at some point.
This is an ATF supporting blog. They moderated and deleted two of my posts because i mentioned how to keep the ATF from banning stuff in the future. There are traitors in the mist.
You mean traitors in our MIDST—–spell check!
The product seems to work as intended and I’m sure it will sell. The video shows that it disassembles ammo. It also clearly shows that he DID NOT HIT ANYTHING. You were going for collateral damage, correct?
” It is a tale told by a idiot. Full of sound and fury, meaning nothing.”
I got mine in today & tested it out. It is awesome. I absolutely enjoy it. Not only does it work with my .223 uppers but it works with my 5.7 upper also. There’s no feeling like burning up 30 rounds in 3 seconds.
I think you guys have been given a length of rope, and now the govt. is just playing the waiting game to see how long it will take for you to hang yourselves. It may be fun now, but when you lose all your ARs it will be a sad day indeed.
Take it from me, it totaly sucks to lose all semi-auto rifles. “Protect what you have, when it’s gone it’s gone”.
HORSE CRAP…..HORSE CRAP…..HORSE CRAP…..We will NEVER lose our AR’s. If you will go back in time a few years, you will recal this thing called “Prohibition”. The whole country told the government to go “F” themselves, and we drank more booze in those years than any others, heh heh. The same thing will happen if they dare try to ban our guns. We will fight back, either openly or behind closed doors, simple as that. Did the government stop us from smoking weed? NO! Did they stop us from dodging Viet Nam? NO! Have they stopped us from street racing? NO NO NO! The fact is that today America is not a bunch of blind followers of the government anymore, not since Al Capone, and never will again. Patriotism means something else to us today……it means defending OUR OWN, it means DEFENDING OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS, it means FIGHTING FOR WHAT’S RIGHT, NOT FOR LAWS THAT STEAL OUR FREEDOM.
I think the bump fire device is the bom. It would be great for those who want a full auto like weapon but can’t aford a real one, if its really works. Now if it will work on a Daniels Defence M4, it would be the thing.
It Works and It is Accurate…. and flawlessly as it has No moving parts save for the sliding aspect of the stock itself..no springs, cams, levers, nothing….simply a polymer stock that allows controlled bump firing which is 1000% safer than attempting traditional bump firing from the hip
Plus, if you love to shoot, you just can’t have more fun at the range with any AR than one fitted with an SFS
Unbelievably fun and as safe as any other firearm in the hands of anyone competent enough to fire any firearm
I defy anyone to shoot their AR with the SFS and not have a huge grin on their face!
Yes, it will absolutely work with your DD AR or any AR with a Milspec or commercial buffer tube.
I shoot my AR 15 .223 and my 7.62×39 AR 15 both fitted with SFS stocks.
The Fun level is off the boards!
LOL! good for the manufacturer, like they say: there is a butt for every seat 🙂 Another totally useless gadget for the AR fanboys to pawn over.
Even better for the consumer! You don’t need 6 to 8 months and $200 to register a fully automatic, $15,000 to $25,000 machine gun. Once the current scare tactics are over, you’ll spend less than $1,000 for the most fun you can have with your pants on.
I agree, this thing is just a waste of ammo!!! Its like NASCAR is a waste of fuel and pollutes the air! It makes no sense! Did I mention I love NASCAR and wasting ammo. Seems like when you go to a range competition, its wasting ammo and just showing off. So shut up with the wasting ammo thing, you sound like someones mother. And who the hell is gunna defend their home with an outo fire weapon. Its just silly. Buy one and have a BLAST wasting ammo if thats what turns you on. If you hate wasting ammo, then put your guns in the closet and stop shooting them unless you have to defend yourself or are hungry and have to hunt for food to survive (I mean we have grocery stores now, they are everywhere, no need to MERCIFULLY kill a deer). I love the idea of wasting ammo! The more waste the better, its good for the economy, im trying help in the recovery. Lets do it!
I need this for my AK too! Hope they hurry and make one for the AK before the ban. I just ordered a crap load of ammo to waste. Cant wait. I hope there wont be an ammo shortage caused by this evil device.
All the lead that will go into the ground will proly end up in the water and poison millions of folks for years and years, all because of my need to waste ammo. Oh Dear, this device really is evil. Its a conspiracy of the BATF to poison us all, thats why they allow us to use it for now. And television is a mind control conspiracy. They should all be banned too. And computers, and wall to wall carpeting, and paved roads. Oh my, the evils of paved raods, they make it so easy for nut jobs to get to a gun store to buy the evil weapons and then to the location of their target. Ban paved roads I say, Ban them!
I wish my welfare check would hurry up, I need more ammo! Looks like the kids will go hungry this month unless I can mercifuly kill a deer with my automatic AR15, for them to eat.
MOM!
Stop Teasing the Tards!
Don’t get me wrong I like AR’s and other military guns. I have two AR’s one of which is an SBR which I paid the stamp for. I also have a Galil and a bunch of handguns. I spent 28 years as a police officer. I’m an NRA member and have been most of my life. Bottom line I’m very pro gun. Folks it won’t be as hard to ban this as you may think.
I give it maybe six months before this thing is gone.
Guess you were COMPLETELY wrong about that, considering it’s been a year huh?
Yea it is amazing that slidefire is still going forward.
This Guy—-
Looks like plowing for a garden—–
Not me! Three hundred sevennty bucks for an item that will momentarily be banned by the feds is not my way of satisfying my giggles.
@Hank-
What do you need a hunting rifle for? You’d probably just use it to kill something. People like you shouldn’t be allowed to have guns because you use them for hunting, thereby avoiding government certified USDA meat. You are obviously an anti-government terrorist!
Hank probably doesn’t get the sarcasm in the above paragraph because Hank is one of those idiots who thinks it’s somehow important to protect his right to go hunting, but not important to protect the right of all citizens to defend their own lives. Get a clue Hank; the 2nd Amendment doesn’t say a damn thing about hunting! And it doesn’t say that the “Right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed (except for certain guns the government doesn’t like and/or that scare timid people)”.
Usually the first one to begin name calling is the person who has the weakest argument in a disagreement. I too would like to be able to shoot full auto with my semi-auto assault rifles but cannot. I would prefer to see the citizens of America fight for their right to have full auto for home defense as the need seems to be increasing as the Mexican drug cartels are sending actual troops in the form of armed hit squads on missions directly into our states right now.
Gimmicks like this are just workarounds and frankly you can fire pretty quickly semi-auto without losing all of that accuracy by holding a weapon loosely (improperly) and letting it wag all over. Reminds me of Jamie Lee in the silly movie True Lies where she drops the gun down the stairs and random fire kills like 20 guys and as luck would have it – all the bad guys only. Reality is, random sloppy fire is seldom so kind and rifle bullets are not the kind of bell you want to find yourself wishing you could un-ring.
Just watch this tube video and tell me you honestly can’t think of any situation where an American citizen might have valid need of full auto for home defense and I’ll call you a liar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHDOwRvb6AA&feature=related
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR……………….GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR……..George Milton…………I see you too haven’t read or researched anything about this Slide Fire either. IT IS ACCURATE………it is as accurate as the shooter is, EVEN in full bump mode, so stop saying that it isn’t accurate or safe. Nobody against this device has said ANYTHING about the incredible accuracy of this device when used in SHORT BURSTS….you HAVE heard of SHORT bursts haven’t you? Some gun shops are starting to equipt an AR-15 with the Slide Fire for people to try out before they buy one……..why don’t all of you “nay-sayers” go try one out before you come here spewing out your anti-american rubbish?
The second ammendment is not for hunting or home defense; it’s just for gun rights – no matter what you want to use them for.
Remember: “A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” – George Washington
My AR’s are for defense against a threat from people or governments; if we are invaded or our government collapses “home defense” becomes “national defense.”
One of the reasons Hitler did not invade the resource-rich United States was the overwhelming number of guns in civilian hands. Our enemies are actively trying to disarm us, and claiming that all guns should be for hunting or home defense is one of thier current arguments to erode tactical weapons ownership rights.
I have had guns all my life and would like to keep them. Guns like the ssar-15 is just another gun that is uncalled for, and the anti-gun activist is going to use agaisnt law abiding people to take their guns. There is no reason to own a gun like this, other than to cause trouble and kill people. When they write the law to ban this gun I will be the first to sign it. Way don’t gun manufactures make good hunting rifle’s, unstead of guns that the general public should not be allowed to own.
I am so sick of hearing about is all anyone owning a gun wants is to cause trouble and kill people, kill as many people as possible in as little time as possible. Thats all I hear from the hankie twisting, hair pulling, sob sisters out there. Guns are inanimate objects and can do no harm by them selves. It is the wrong doers, criminals and mental defectives that are the problem, not guns, any kind of guns, full auto, semi, hand loaded. Automobiles kill more people every year than all the guns ever sold and used legally in this country but nobody is crying out to ban them!
If anybody wants to buy one of these to waste that much ammo legally, then so be it. Personnel I don’t have a need or desire for one. I’d rather spend that $369 on more ammo for my good hunting rifle which happens to be an AR-15.
“there is no reason to own a gun like this, other than to cause trouble and kill people”
You are using the same logic that the anti-gun crowd has used for years against all types of weapons. If people want to dish out $370 for this device than they should be free to.
Your handgun?
Police killing machine
Your bolt action deer rifle?
High powered sniper rifle
semi-auto rifles with detachable magazines?
assault weapons
You see how ridiculous that argument is? By your logic the only weapons allowed would be no weapons because in theory they can all be used for killing people but the vast majority of gun owners wouldn’t even think of harming another human being intentionally.
If anybody bans it, it will be the States. Much easier for them to do. “it shall be unlawful for any person to possess a semi automatic firearm modified in such a way as make the weapon capable of a rate of fire in excess of 4 rounds per second.”
I can fire 4 rounds per second with my kimber 1911. ( lot more accurately than I can with a bump fire stock too)
Well said!
If you think this should be band you are not a american. So go back to your own country and take this shitty excuse some call the president with you
Banned is spelled as I typed it not “Band” as in your high school band—geez.
As I see it, The government has way too much control over the citizens of the United States. The government was formed to see that our citizens were protected from foriegn invaders, and to see to it that each individual has a chance to live happily, and free of interferece and to feel safe in their own homes. Currently they cannot even do this. I think the States themselves and the people who populate those states should make their own laws and be able to enforce them any way they feel is proper, considering that the people vote for these laws. I am afraid that we are too far gone to expect fairness and protection from our government. We must be able to protect our family first and our community second and our state third.
where can you buy 1 and how much is it?!!!!!!
Hundreds of Mexican Citizens murdered by Drug gangs, using guns supplied by BATFE and Obama Whitehouse !!!
This will also open up the U.S. Government to large amounts of lawsuits from grieving families of the murdered.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/28/obama-administration-mounting-pressure-botched-gun-trafficking-investigation/?cmpid=cmty_email_Gigya_Obama_Administration_Under_Mounting_Pressure_for_Botched_Gun_Trafficking_Investigation
Why was this NOT disclosed by the major news media networks when describing the violence in Mexico as an “American Gun” issue?
WE MUST KEEP THIS GOING AND NOT ALLOW THIS TO BE KEPT QUITE !
Oh yeah, the gun grabbers are gonna love this. No real reason not to own one…except trying to explain to the wife where my paycheck went.
More ammo for the left wing.
Who let this “demonstrator” fire this rifle? What is he shooting at? Butterflies? Killer Bees? Another very poor representation of the legitimate side of the gun industry.
A $369 toy! You won’t hit anything and as one person said just take the leap and pay the tax fee for a real auto. This bump firing is dangerous for one thing and the other is we don’t need to give the ATF any additional reasons to try and take our AR’s away. Those that do the regular bump fire are asking for a serious tragedy to happen. As said in the article you hold it loose!!! This thing won’t last long anyway—-the feds will ban it and that’s pretty obvious even if they change the wording. When not if they change things what else will they add in????
I appreciate his service and ingenuity but no way it will sell for that price. Ammo is to expensive as it is without firing this all over creation. I know you guys said you get accurate, but what half a mag before that happens?
I’m a NRA firearms instructor and there is no way I would let anyone on the range with one of these.
Really? Would you let someone on ‘your’ range using both hands shooting two h-cap AR-15 .223 semi-auto pistols at once as fast as they can pull the trigger? Or how about a Siaga drum fed semi-auto shotgun with buckshot firing as fast as someone could pull the trigger? Or would you ‘restrict’ that as well? with Maybe you should quit being an NRA range instructor and join the ATF? You can be a real ‘gun controller’ then. At least before they dissolve the agency due to its uselessness.
You miss the point it’s as much about range safety as anything else. By the way the Saiga is fine two AR pistols at once—not gonna happen. Go ahead and run me down you’ll be talking to yourself.
That, “as fast as you can pull the trigger” stuff, not not mention these sorts of devices, are strictly prohibted at my gun club. The usual courses of timed rapid fire are of course allowed, but if your goal is merely to throw as much lead downrange, regardless of the type of gun used, in as short a time as possible, then you are history. Even with such a restriction there’s a long waiting list of people seeking membership in our 100% NRA club. We do not discriminate against magazine capacity or calibers (including 50BMG) , but we do demand civil behavior at all times. We feel that the future of the club and its ongoing good relationship with the surrounding community is far more important than an indivdual’s “free spirt” to just do as he likes.
Man, you are 100% wrong!
It is not a toy.And it is just as accurate as any other AR, semi or full with the SFS installed.
Obviously, you just talk the talk and have never fired an AR with an SFS.
No way it will sell? You really don’t know what you are talking about my friend.And you are an NRA instructor?
You sound like every other anti gun advocate.
Personally, I’m usually not one to advocate “banning” anything gun-related,.. but having said that, I hope it gets “banned” (i.e. gets labelled as a “destructive device” requiring a BATF Form 4). My reasoning is this: if its available to the bubba crowd, it will add a lot of fuel to the fire for the gun-banners seeking to reinstate the so-called “assault weapon” ban. The gun industry needs to be mindful of past failures in the propaganda wars that often time control the “gun-control” debate. Remember those hyped up Winchester “Black Talon” hollow-point pistol cartridges from 20 years ago? Or those retards at Tec 9 that advertised the fact the finish of their pistols were resistent to fingerprints? Those types of mis-steps set the industry back in huge ways, and certainly are not worth whatever modest benefit those products brought to the end users.
And, when you really get down to it, this device is just a toy for Rambo wanna-be’s. Yeah, it might be entertaining for a day or two, but after that most people will get bored with it anyway (esp. considering the ammo costs). I agree with the commentator above who says if you want the real thing, save your bucks and fill out a Form 4 for a full-auto weapon.
As for the argument that “it will turn 5 deaths into 50,” in most scenarios, I would have to respectfully disagree. It will more likely turn 5 deaths into zero, because the stupid gangbangers won’t be able to hit anything – esp. when they are holding the rifle sideways! When I was an Infantry officer, we used to run drills with our soldiers to demonstate to them that they could actually hit many more targets with aimed rapid semi-auto fire than with full-auto fire. I was constantly amazed (and a bit dismayed) to see how little damage full-auto fire typically accomplished. The Army eventually decided the issue for us by issuing us M-16 A2s with three round burst capability instead of full-auto.
“I was constantly amazed (and a bit dismayed) to see how little damage full-auto fire typically accomplished”
If this is true (which I agree it is) than why are automatics restricted in the first place? The second amendment protects all small arms and we should not ban or restrict a particular group of weapons because some people might abuse a right in the same way we can’t restrict freedom of speech because of groups like Westboro Baptist Church. Nobody besides collectors, gun shops, and the obscenely rich are going to dish out $15,000+ for a legal and likely obsolete pre-1986 machinegun and without the registration restriction such devices would be withing reach of the average law abiding citizen. Hell without the NFA tax and registration restrictions a real full auto AR15 lower is cheaper than this plastic piece of crap and much safer and more controllable for obvious reasons.
You raise an interesting issue. I have no problem with machine guns and other similar items being regulated as “destructive devices,” nor do I mind the attendant paperwork and $200 stamp that goes with that designation. Ive read that back in the old days (pre-32), they sold Thompson M1929s at Sears Robuck… no paperwork or anything. That does not seem smart to me. On the other hand, I agree that it really makes no sense to prohibit the manufacture and sale of new machine guns as a class III regulated item (such as suppressors are currently allowed). As you point out, by artificially constricting the supply of these weapons, the government has caused the prices on the existing supply of “grandfathered” (pre-86) machineguns to rise, and has put them far out of reach of all but the most dedicated of collectors…. unless you are willing to settle for a Mac 10 bullet hose or an old beater Sten, I suppose.
Get real dude. 1st you talk about the cost of ammo. Then you say if you want to shoot full auto get a m-16. Guess you don’t know how much ammo you can buy with 9-15 grand. And then theres the Ins., and security to protect all this.
Soooooo, let use buy an ar-15 and slidestock for 8-9 HUNDRED, 100.00 for ammo and have a great time.
So you really think that the reason for adding the three shot burst capability to the m-16was to maximize ‘damage’ that couldn’t be accomplished with full auto fire? And you suprvised military training drills to prove the superior effectiveness of well aimed ‘semi’ auto fire with the m-16?!
What freaking military were you in? It couldn’t be my old 5th Special Forces unit in Pleiku. We preferred to carry grease guns or swedish k’s and AK’s because of the round capacity for the initial first open up one blast burst in ambushes that could make or break a firefight from the jump. It ain’t about precision in hot and heavy smack downs, dude. The more up front lead being spread, the better in mano y mano whack jobs. We wanted most, if not all of it, over before we had to fumble around switching magazines.
Maybe you were part of some liberal politically correct Army? You know like the one’s who didn’t give the men enough ammo to go into Haiti during that moron fiasco?
Because looky here LT, or maybe you were field grade and that’s your excuse. but you could never have been in any real combat the way you talk. “Ya just gotta ask yerself just one question, punk, do i have my selector switch on full, or semi?”
Why the F do you think they don’t eliminate Full auto completely then, if semi is so much better?? In fact they even make grenade launchers full auto now, and everything else they can?!
The inventor of the Maxim machine gun and old Browning himself are probably break dancing in their graves right now considering full auto machine gun fire changed the course of modern warfare as we knew it?
If you were on my base camp you would have been eve a “bit more dismayed” firing such wonderful semi-auto fire. After i put my boot in your ass to get your thumb out of it to select back to full auto to lay down some freaking firepower.
Then you would have quickly learned from one of the combat vets how to properly ‘control’ your maximum rate of fire output for maximum effect.
For your real time edjumofuckingcation, which you obviously didn’t learn in whatever military training you participated in, the problem with certain weapons, especially assault rifles, is NOT full auto fire. It’s the ability to Place the full auto fire on the target consistantly. The theory is a tactical advantage called overwhelming rapid suppressive firepower.
it’s the difference between someone who trains on a speed bag and can chop your body up with fifty punches before you can even raise your arm to do one accurate haymaker. Military infantry assault strategies always factor this advantage in and full auto firepower always beats semi-auto in all but a few combat situations for bringing the most damage to a battle. Period.
Check your freaking historic documented casualty math records before you assume imaginary fantasies. Especially when you are shooting at targets that don’t shoot back.
The slightly too high cyclic rate and lighter barrels caused excessive muzzle climb capabilites om the M-14 and M-16 in UNTRAINED HANDS(although with enough training/practice, this can be mitigated. I can lay a full magazine on full auto of M-14 rounds
all on
Ever notice that every old blow-hard douch-bag says he was a “Green Beret” in Vietnam? I’ve never met any REMFs (cooks, supply sergeants) that say they served in Vietnam, but I’ve met hundreds of guys that said they were SEALs, LRRPs, or Green beenies. Of the few “real” ones I’ve met, none spoke/wrote as thoughtlessly and as off-topic as you. In fact, most don’t even like thinking about Vietman, let alone lecturing some stranger on the finer points of “overwhelming rapid suppressive firepower.” If you would stop trying to “edjumofuckingcate” me on shit I already know, you might realize that nothing that you are talking about has anything to do civilian use of a bump-fire device. So I’m calling bullshit on you, Pleiku-man, but feel free to post your real name to prove me wrong.
LOL … Andrew just OWNED an old wannabe windbag rear echelon mofo who’s been making up loads of CRAP for years. No doubt the Plieko Kid has every military award possible, right up to the MOH. Assclown.
His real name is “Dan.” Call him “Dan.”
Sadly, he’s not as smart or articulate as Lt. Dan, and his Green Beret experience is as much fantasy as the fictional character from Forrest Gump. Yet, his name is Dan. Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, DAN.
Also Known As:
Daniel E Friebel
Dan E Friebel
Dan and Friebel
Age:
Daniel E Friebel is in his 60’s
Daniel Has Lived In:
Kaukauna, WI
Appleton, WI
Hortonville, WI
Greenville, WI
I’m very surprised that you, being an infantry officer, fail to understand the tactical purpose of full auto fire. The tactical idea of full auto fire from either a shoulder fired weapon, an LMG or a mounted MG is not necessarily accuracy at hitting particular targets. The tactical idea of full auto fire is to lay down suppressive fire to keep an enemy pinned down, to sweep across an advancing enemy to cut them down, to lay down covering fire to allow friendlies to move in open terrain.
The maker of this device never claimed one can hit targets at a 100 yards simulating full auto bump fire. He only claims that one can simulate full auto in a controllable manner, with reasonable accuracy using this device. Also, I can see a real advantage using this device on a CQB rifle for home defense. Using this device you could easily put a controlled 3 round burst into someone who “self-invited” themselves into your home.
OF COURSE I understand the tactical purpose of full-auto fire… they go over that topic at Benning School for Boys. But again, I’m having a hard time relating that concept to civilian ownership of a bump fire device. You state that “the tactical idea of full auto fire is to lay down suppressive fire to keep an enemy pinned down, to sweep across an advancing enemy to cut them down, to lay down covering fire to allow friendlies to move in open terrain.” Let me ask you, do you do a lot of that “fire and maneuver” stuff in the neighborhood where you live? …. Yeah, I didn’t think so. You argue that “using this device you could easily put a controlled 3 round burst into someone who “self-invited” themselves into your home.” At the risk of pointing out the obvious, why not just pull the trigger three times and accomplish the same thing without some gay-looking $370 stock? Besides, I would not use any type of military weapon for home defense, for the simple reason that IF you end up getting prosecuted for the shooting, a prosecuter will try to paint you as an overzealous Rambo-type who hunted down the “victim” and used excessive force instead of taking more reasonable and prudent measures. Perhaps if you live in Texas, that’s not as big of a concern, but in a super-lib state like California, these things happen. Furthermore, since you seem to concede that this stock cuts the range of an otherwise perfectly useful AR-15 down to less than 100 yards, why exactly would you want that?
Yea home defense on full auto. How many walls will that go through and into your next door neighbors home. I just love folks who have limited knowledge and no experience. Oh yea then attack you because they aren’t intelligent enough to make a reasonable argument.
If you were truly an “Infantry Officer”, then you would know the benefit of full auto fire in maintaining your perimeter (with of course others set up in with full auto also). There is a tactical use of full auto when used correctly. Just because there are people (americans) who have never served, does not mean that they should not have the ability (right) to defend themselves and/ or their neighborhood from enemies, both foreign AND domestic. The Second Amendment is stated as it is, because the founding fathers knew that the aveage American would someday have to defend (with Arms) himself, his neighbors, and his territory from the Government. They were not stupid, they were defending themselves from one government (the Brits), and creating a new one (the good ole USA); and knew full well that in time the new one would want to control the people just as the one they were fighting had. Anyone making the statement that “Bubba” getting one of these would be a problem, more than likely lives in the city, has absolutely no idea how to survive, other than going to a store and buying food, AND if the shit ever hit the fan, would eventually either turn to crime to exist, befriend a “Bubba”, or die. “Bubba” is just someone that does NOT need the Government to survive (and that is why they are mocked, and feared). The government, is not the same as it was; it is no longer by the people, and for the people. It is an institution that wants EVERYONE to depend on it for existance. The founding Fathers knew that if the people had the RIGHT to bear arms, the government would never be able to ilegally take over and make this place “By the Government, For the Government, Of the Government.
You keep assuming that this gunstock is “out of control”, or “just a toy” or a gimic to spend a lot of amunition…………….Have you even listened to to those who have seen this thing up close and personal like myself? If anything, it is MORE CONTROL…….not less. It is VERY accurate when used in short bursts (2, 3, or 4 shots at a time), and twice as accurate as a full auto fireing a whole mag at once………get it now?
I have an idea for you………RESEARCH FIRST……SPEAK SECOND………..OR SHUT UP.
I totally disapprove of this device and the videos showing how people make an semi autos fire at a rate higher than necessary. If you just want to make noise get some firecrackers, handling a firearm is a serious responsibility and must not be misused. The Feds and the majority of citizens in this country do not understand firearms and fear them. seeing things like this increases the possibility of gun banning and seizure. Please do not support the manufacture devices like this or misuse of firearms.
I am a veteran, gun owner and life member of the NRA , I fully support the 2nd amendment and the Constitution of the United States. I stopped using a gun rack when I overheard two ladies expressing fear of guns in vehicles . non gun owners do not understand the pleasure of a well placed shot or of a clean merciful deer kill. Accuracy is more to be desired than just making noise and wasting ammo.
Howard Grizzle- GO BACK TO YOUR ROCKING CHAIR AND LEAVE US REAL AMERICANS ALONE!!! I’M SORRY YOU FEEL THE NEED TO BE A PUSSY JUST BECAUSE YOU HEARD SOME OLD LADIES SAYING GUNS IN GUN RACKS SCARE THEM! THE GUNS AND GUN RACKS WERE PROBABLY HERE BEFORE THEY WERE!!! GET A CLUE TRAITOR!!! YOUR NO MEMBER OF THE NRA AND VERY DOUBTFUL A VETERAN AT THAT! IF YOU WRE YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND RIGHTS!!! JUST BECAUSE SOME ENATIMATE OBJECT SCARES SOME FOLL DOESN’T MEAN IT SHOULD BE BANNED! LOOK THE OTHER WAY IF YOU DON’T LIKE WHAT SOMETHING LOOKS LIKE!!! LOSER!!!!
Get a life troll. Only 12 yr. old kids and you use the caps lock to get a rise out of people. Why don’t you get a job. Move out of Mom and Dad’s basement, and unplug for a while. You obviously need to learn how to control yourself with your internet connection, and I’m sure will scream about your “Right” to free speech that my guns protect for you. You’re welcome! And I’m not bitter because somebody has to protect you children and granola chewing hippie lib douche bags! That’s my right to free speech! I bet I’ll keep mine longer then you! To the rest of the room, I fired two different weapons today with this ass. installed. It was fun, but a waste of ammo. Can’t say I won’t buy one for my rifle, but it’s just for kicks and “Hey check this out!” fun.
If you disagree with bump firing semi-auto weapons than push your congressman or senator to repeal the 1986 machine gun registration ban, GCA of 1968, and possible even the National Firearms Act in its entirety so law abiding people can legally own a fully automatic weapon. Devices like this wouldn’t exist if law restricting automatic weapons didn’t exist. If you really support the 2nd amendment and recognize that the bump firing is possibly dangerous than legalize the real device (automatics) which are much more controllable and safe.
BUT………ITS MY AMMO!!
firecrackers are illegal in most states now.
& how can you say that you support the 2nd ammendment but have supported the NRA (No Rights Anti-gun) with a life membership ? The NRA has contributed to just as many anti gun laws as the federal government has. ATF is banning Tactical shotguns. There are the fucking NRA snakes slobin the knob of the ATF helping push it through. Read a little into your local laws and look at the anti gunners who put them into place. In colorado it is a Class 6 felony if you are open carrying and a person feels threatened; if you are practicing your right and minding your own business and it dosent matter if you are 200′ from the person or next to them. all it takes is a mindless sheep to freak out and you are done. we can thank the NRA for that law. it was all them. If you want to support the second ammendment join a real orginization that cares about lining the books with no gun laws vs. your hard earned cash, org’s are non taxable too. someone is getting a lot of that money. with his 7 houses… Im just saying.
Sorry bud I haven’t seen any videos of people “misusing” this product. All I’ve seen is people shooting at targets and such. Nobody was shooting in the air, or holding two guns at once. Just because this accessory isn’t somthing you would own or use doesn’t give you the right to say that it shouldn’t be sold. Especially when you are going off your own fear of somthing new.
I can understand the comments about juvenile behavior and irresponsible sales to criminals; but step back and look at the situation. The government should have NO right to control a tool, especially a 2nd Amendment tool. The government is about controlling criminals. When they get a handle on the crime thing, then we can talk. I refuse to give one inch of my God given rights because of what a criminal MIGHT do! The GCA 68, and especially the ’86 law are as worthless as toilet paper. Only ONE person who was EVER legally registered as an NFA weapons holder was EVER convicted of a crime with an NFA firearm; and that ONE person was a COP!!!
Now how are we as free men supposed to trust the “authorities” to “protect” us when they are the ONLY ones breaking the law!!!??? Those kind of laws are worthless as tits on a boar hog!!! NO SIR!! We don’t need no stinking GCA ’68!! We need enforcement of the criminal laws of the nation, and maybe we need to shoot a few gang members up against a wall, like they do in real wars. It is time to stop pussy footing around with the criminal gangs and treat them just like the terrorists they are, and blow them away, just like we do in Iraq and Afghanistan.
If you ever run for office, please let me know; You’ve got my vote…
AMEN BUDDY!!!!
I just signed up for a dealer account. I am curious to see how accurate it could possibly be with this configuration. Seeing as how it is considered a part and not a gun (read, no paper trail) I would think that it would be hard for them to track them down after they have been sold.
In the BATF letter, I couldn’t help but notice that it says this device is intended for people who have limited mobility. I am thinking that this could be a potential problem in the future. Maybe, maybe not. We’ll see.
I just dont see this as anything of worth. Its gimmicy at best.
Jeff G – I hear that C-Products make a good 7.62x39mm magazine for the AR-15. There is also a company called “MGI” that manufactures a rifle whose lower receiver will accept AK magazines. Special Weapons also made such a receiver to accept AK mags, but I believe they no longer do.
I HAVE FIRED BURST FIRE IN AIMED FIRE—–YOU CAN NOT BE AS ACURATE WITH THIS–I HAVE WITNESSED IT AND ONCE IT GETS GOING ITS ABOUT THE SAME AS FULL AUTO——BUT FIREING FROM THE HIP IS NOT ACURATE-AND IF YOU HAD TO DO SOMETHING FAST YOU WOULD BE STANDING THERE TRYING TO GET IT TIMED RIGHT–YOURSELF A TARGET——PLUS 4 SECOUNDS LATER YOU HAVE TO BUY 30 MORE ROUNDS.—I’LL PASS
I agree w Chris on this. Although I FULLY SUPPORT THE OWNERSHIP AND USE OF THIS DEVICE, it will just end up being a dream come true for ammo makers and sellers!
CONTROLLED AND CAREFULLY PLACED SHOTS ARE THE BEST WAY TO GO!
It occurs to me that, as pointed out, that allowing this to be “legally sold” for a period of time supports two goals. The first goal would be to create a (greater) furor over the Evil Black Rifles, justifying some action. The second would be to acquire a list of people who would own such a thing.
Nah, that would never happen…
Yep, won’t be long and you will have to sign that BATF letter and mail it back to them. So they can add your name to their list when they come looking. I don’t see too much difference between this and an Akin’s Accelerator….it was a bump-fire device also, it just used springs..BATF banned it!
Reminds me of something I saw on the web years ago (so take it with a grain of salt and don’t believe everything on the net). Someone sent a shoelace with a loop in each end with a numbered metal tag to BATF for full auto registration for an AK.
The guys that sell ammo will love this thing, but the G-men wont…
Permit me a dissenting voice. We live close to a variety of European and South American gangs, and not far from the 1997 North Hollywood BofA robbery where superior firepower and body armor enabled two thugs to bring down 18 officers and civilians–and they couldn’t be stopped because law enforcement didn’t have equal weaponry.
Slide Fire Solutions site had no verbiage about requiring a criminal background check for people they sell this device to.
Certainly its retailers won’t, because it’s an accessory not a firearm, and everyone wants to sell as much as possible. But it’s just a matter of time before the Fill-In-The-Blank Mafia, a spurned boyfriend, or a college kid on psych meds, shoots up another restaurant, classroom or birthday party.
And Slide Fire just the “accessory” to turn five deaths into 50.
Yes, it’s legal and technically possible. But it’s not morally responsible to let these things circulate among the criminal population.
The worry is allways there for every item we own. Be it a Glock 19, a slide fire stock, or Bubba’s SKS. If a person wanted you could make an AK into full auto….easily, heck they include the F/A parts in a parts kit. It’s not about “banning them from the criminal population” its about “allowing a legal item in the hands of a private individual”. Its the historical argument of government control vs personal control. Be careful which side you get on.
They would also take a hard look at banning your “Long range assassination Sniper Rifles” (aka as your Weatherby .30-378 or any other hunting rifle).
In reality the criminals have no problem getting any weapon illegally. The BATF and Fedzilla needs to get out of the way and let Americans use their GOD GIVEN RIGHTS for self protection and meet evil head on. The Fed is failing in it’s job to protect it’s citizens and secure our borders. It’s time to stand up folks and do it ourselves. It’s our Constitutional right.
I totally agree with Rob. I live right on the Mexican border and our mayor (a former FBI agent) refuses the idea of putting up a fence or any sort of barrier to protect us from the drug lords that are literally in charge of nuevo laredo. And guess what, the fear of these violent drug gangs crossing into our country is now a REALITY! They are already here in Laredo and local law enforcement have done nothing! They are too afraid! They arrest one of these gang members, and its beheading, or columbian neckties for the officer and his family. WE HAVE TO PROTECT OURSELVES, IT IS A GOD GIVEN RIGHT!
I believe you are assuming a lot if you you think the gangs don’t have auto weapons you live on a different plaint, and as for this item it gives the the honest person a chance to defend our self as will as our homes and are way of life law enforcement is not the first responders !!you are!!
@Joe Kansas
I am sure you expect some type of response.
While you have some somewhat valid points I have to say that you are forgetting some things that I have yet to hear anyone bring up. Not that it hasn’t been brought up, I just haven’t had the opportunity to see or hear it myself.
If it had been legal for citizens to have these weapons (the same ones that the criminals had) when those thugs took out all of those people in the bank robbery that you referred to, they would not have gotten as far as they did. Some patriot would have, in the very least, offered his/her fully auto weapon to any one of the police to take them down much sooner. People seem to forget about the flip side of this situations.
An armed citizenry is what keeps the thugs at bay. Police can not legally do anything until a crime has been committed. Banning weapons, bullets, accessories, parts, armor, etc. from law abiding patriots never has done anything to secure the safety of anyone but the criminals.
That’s my opinion and I base it on history and facts. You are welcome to show me history and facts to the contrary, I might change my opinion given logical proof to the contrary. Criminals will always have what those who obey the law do not. That’s why they are criminals.
Their thousands of rounds of “spray and pray” only INJURED 18 people. They didn’t kill anyone because they couldn’t stay on target. The only deaths were the two thugs and they were taken down with controlled fire. I sure hope anyone shooting at me uses full auto!
The real problem with the BofA robbery is that the beat cops that were the first to respond, were ill equipped to combat rifle fire. Their sidearms were simply out-distanced and ineffective against body armor.
I worked at a t.v. station at the time of this incident and got to see all the unedited live coverage before it aired. The police, using hollow point and/or frangible ammo from pistols and rifles failed to penetrate the body armor. The first robber to go down was hit on the hand, I believe, dropped his gun, picked it up off the ground and shot himself under the chin with the muzzle pointing up into his head. This footage wasn’t aired on television as far as I know, but can be seen on youtube. The second robber took cover behind his car and an LAPD officer shot at his legs with a shotgun from under his squad car.
Joe Kansas, criminals LOVE gun control laws because it does exactly what the gun control lawmakers and LEOs want: to disarm law abiding citizens…and, disarmed citizens make VERY easy victims. Criminals are essentially cowards. They come into a convenience store acting all badass with their guns, but as soon as they are met with equal force from a brave and honorable store owner defending his/her livelihood they flee faster than greased lightning. Just look at any youtube surveillance video of robber vs. store owner shootout.
AS A RURAL DEPUTY SHERIFF IN WESTERN NY, I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT MOST LEO’S OPPOSE GUN CONTROL AND SUPPORT AND ARMED CITIZENRY OF LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. THIS COUNTY ISSUES MORE UNRESTRICTED CONCEALED CARRY PISTOL PERMITS THAN IT DOES DRIVERS LICENSES. PERHAPS MOST LARGE CITY POLICE ADMINISTRATORS SUPPORT GUN CONTROL AS A POLITICAL VIEWPOINT, BUT THE MAJORITY OF POLICE I KNOW ARE CONSERVATIVE FOLKS WHO SUPPORT THE SECOND AMENDMENT. THANKS.
wow gary ! some common sense! thanks for the post!
@ Gary Morris
“If it had been legal for citizens to have these weapons (the same ones that the criminals had) when those thugs took out all of those people in the bank robbery that you referred to, they would not have gotten as far as they did. Some patriot would have, in the very least, offered his/her fully auto weapon to any one of the police to take them down much sooner.”
That is pure speculation offered as fact. There is no way of knowing whether anyone with an automatic weapon would have been in the area (most of the population doesn’t even own a gun, let alone an automatic rifle). I believe approaching a police officer with an automatic weapon while he or she is involved in a shootout would be a very dangerous and likely fatal move. Offering a police officer involved in a shootout an automatic weapon and having them then take the bad guy down with that AW is pure fantasy. A civilian entering the fight with an AW would be not only be foolish, but again likely fatal for that civilian.
You might recall that relatives of those two sued the police department for wrongful death. It was a crazy suit, but at least the police department had lawyers and city money to defend the suit so it didn’t have to come out of their pockets. If a civilian had become involved in that exchange, even by simply lending a rifle, they could have been sued and even though they would have no-doubt won, found themselves with thousands of dollars of legal bills and possibly bankrupt. Defending even a bad lawsuit cost money.
If you see a gunfight between police officers and bad guys move as fast as you can out of the area.
I hear a lot of anecdotal incidences about “an armed citizenry keeping thugs at bay.” But well researched and documented evidence and statistics I have not seen. Armed police officers didn’t keep a gunman from opening fire in a Detroit police station. Being armed didn’t keep four police officers from being murdered in a diner. Sometimes being armed makes one more of a target, not less of one.
I’m a gun owner and in favor of sane gun rights. I am also wise enough to know that owning a firearm does not make me Rambo or shield me from lawsuits. As Clint Smith from Thunder Ranch says: “Every bullet that leaves your gun has a lawyer attached to it.”
“That is pure speculation offered as fact.”
So is EVERY argument for gun control, but that’s never an issue when speculation drives the argument on that side.
“We need gun control in case terrorists try to buy assault rifles in the US.”
“We need to ban .50 Sniper Rifles because someone may use them to shoot down a plane”
“We need to ban handguns because the rate of accidental homicides will surely drop”
It’s all speculation. The only thing that isn’t is that, in communities, counties, and states across the country, the more permissive the gun laws become, the more crime decreases. That’s a FACT.
Self defense and the defense of others should be the top priority of every person, and every person should have the tools necessary for that purpose. A friend of mine was attending Virginia tech, back from Iraq and a few month prior to the shootings, said he felt “Naked” without some sort of weapontry. Being in the military, I know the feeling, but assured him he was “safe” and encoraged him to continue attending the university. When the shooting happened, my concern was for his safety, so I called him to ensure that he was ok. He helped barracade one of the doors, and told me he watched when the student walked from one building to another. His only real reaction was that if he had his pistol, which was here at home, he could have saved so many lives, and that by banning personal firearms from the campus, VTech created a target rich shooting gallery for this “psycho”
Ridiculous! What’s an anti gun person doing on a firearms blog in the first place?
First of all, there is a learning curve to use the SFS properly, and it is not in any way a mechanical device
Plus, the gang bangers you refer to have real M16’s and AK’s anyway..I seriously doubt they would attempt to buy and install an SFS in the first place.
Secondly, you don’t need to ‘bump’ fire an AR or shoot a full auto to cause the same final outcome…ANY firearm, semi auto, single shot or any other type of action all result in the same conclusion.Not morally responsible? Ever heard of the 2nd amendment? You think everyone that owns a firearm is morally irresponsible and is a crook? Why would a criminal buy and install a SFS when they buy the real deal on the streets anyway? Get to the root of the problem…the criminals themselves and illegal firearms, not legal firearms and in the case of the SFS, an accessory! People kill people..Not firearms!
Exponentially more deaths are caused by vehicular homicide and irresponsible and/or drunk drivers than by firearms..maybe we should ban automobiles and bring back prohibition as well!
you said it exactly joe it is legal to own howver the prople you talk about probably cannot legaly own the gun this would need to be used with to do the damage you are insinuating. why not go the step further and just require all citizens to complete their mandatory term of imprisonment for a felony at the local federal penetentary, then no one would be elegible to own a gun and we would all be safer, but oh wait then no-one would be able to be a police officer except the ones that are chosen and given preferential treatment by the upper class of society the congressmen etc. hell why not just abolish all rights altogether after all it worked so well for the soviets, and the post ww1 germans. you seriously need to pull your head out of whatever dark recess it is stuck up. requiring a criminal background checks on things like this does and did absolutely nothing to discourage Columbine, V-tech, Chicago, Denver, or Tucson, of all these incidents only one had the one single element that preveted it from becoming a total fish in a barrel masacre, that would be the Denver church shootings where a law abiding concealed permit holder carrying her weapon acted in the capacity as a responsible citizen hero stepped into the line of fire and used her second amendment RIGHT and stopped the rampageing lunatice before the mayhem he wanted to cause was done. the founding fathers worded it correctly as “THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS” NOTICE THEY DID NOT SAY PRIVLEDGE, HONOR OR OPPORTUNITY, THEY SAID RIGHT!!!, when in the hell are you bleeding heart liberal idiots how believe adding more restricions to people will make it less probable to happen going to get it through your thick brain dead heads THAT THE CRIMINALS DO NOT GO THROUGH PROPER CHANNELS TO AQUIRE THEIR ARMS OR DO WHAT THEY DO HENCE THE TERM CRIMINAL. REQUIREING LAW ABIDING CITIZENS TO HAVE TO FILL OUT ANOTHER MOUNTAIN OF PAPER WORK, WAIT A UNREASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME DOES NOOOOOTTTTTTT!!!! WORK IT DOES NOTHING BUT WASTE PEOPLES TIME AND KILL TREES. name me one single time a criminal honestly filled out paperwork and was thwarted, hell the ATFE just allowed 3000 weapons to walk into mexico on the hope that it would lead them to finding a way to arrest and shut down the cartells now 2 agents form other agencies are dead, several of the transactions were questioned by the sellers the ATFE encouraged them to proceed the paid them as informants and video taped the transaction, for what not a single arrest was made but hey did document that several of the weapons they let walk were used in several shootings in mexico. brilliant police work, 18 DIFFERENT GUN LAWS were BROKEN @ Columbine, the Tucson shooter while his gun was bought legally, he passed the check due to the carelessness of both school and law enforcement athorities in handling the case. if he was a danger why was he not locked up and evaluated, the sent him home and told him if he wanted to come back he would need a cleared psych eval. WTF!!! they have forced commitment laws and 3 day psych obsevartions for a reason. Both he and the V-tech shooter broke the law when they decided to buy the guns and the accessories to do what they did.
Question 12 E. on the 4473 “Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?” in both case these were a yes and would have disqualified them. THEY LIED NEWS FLASH !!! CRIMINALS DO THAT REGULARLY!!!. adding more rediculous laws and restrictions to law abiding citizens will not stop people that lie on the forms required to purchase a gun nor will they tell the truth if they have to fill one out for an accessory. how about we start throwing criminals in prison longer for gun and violence related offenses and for supplying those types of people with weapons by preforming straw purchases, instead of giving out minimal fines or letting them off with a warning, an how about the police when called to the disturbences these people are involved in, when they honestly feel the people are a danger to themselves or others do something instead of leting them go home with the threat to get an evaluation or you cant enroll in school again, and then return to eating doughnuts and drinking coffee for the remainder of their 8-12 hour shift. if they had done their job, “to serve and Protect” to the best of their ability a nine year old girl might be reminicing about the time she met a congress women instead of singing with the angels in a heavenly choir. im sure her voice there is lovely but her parents would probably want to hear it around the house instead.
Amen… And Amem! Look, there is only 1 law. The Contitution as originally written. The fact that one would be remotely concerned about “what’s legal” means they are responsible and will conduct themselves responsibly. The criminals that have infiltrated Washington are the dangerous operators. It is real simple… Be an American. Nuff said.
instead of outlawing every thing if someone commits a crime using a gun instead of giving them a year or so give them twenty mfer think twice about using a gun
Criminals by definition break laws. Banning this device will not stop any crimes. If a criminal wants to hurt someone, they will use any means necessary. Felons cannot legally own firearms of any kind so your argument makes no sense. The Swiss have the lowest crime rates in the world and almost no gun crime. This is because there is an assault rifle in almost every home. In the US most people are scared of criminals. If the criminals thought that every citizen was armed and ready to defend themselves, crime would decrease drastically. Armed violent criminals in the US get “three hots and a cot”, armed violent criminals in switzerland just get shot. This is not Minority Report with tom cruise. This is America. And your comment about the slide fire being an accessory to turn 5 deaths into 50 is completely unfounded. If those 5 people were armed, they would turn 5 deaths into one. Arming the population will quickly “weed out” the criminals.
out of all the posts I have read I like this one the most… only because up here we all own guns and our crime rate is rediculously low….. and your right they should be shot… rapists .. shot……. mollesters shot… save money time and let us live how it should be …FREE…
Freedom ain’t free, dude. Sometimes it’s even a little risky.
I can squeeze off just as many rounds with a semi auto as I could with this bump stock I own one, and live in this shit hole cali and the rest of all u liberal, tree hugging hippies are more worried about a add on to our rifles, rather than handle the illegals that’s bringing in the illegal firearms and drugs along with themselfs. Do us a favor and pull your lip over your head ans swallow. And for the police that couldn’t take care of the Hollywood shootout they should have spent their money better and taught them how to properly shoot a firearm. Those men should have been dropped as soon as they stepped foot out type bank door. For some Jack ass to say they didn’t have proper equipment is ignorant they sprayed over 600 roupnds and thpats all that was hit???????
Joe your argument is invalid, if someone wants to get a gun and shoot at people they are going to do it regardless of this product or not! If they want fully automatic weapons they will get fully automatic weapons. Its sad that there are people in our country, county, and or community that want to cause great harm to people. The best we can do as citizens of of this great country is STOP this I don’t want to get involved attitude and speak up if we notice our neighbors, family, or frinds acting in a questionable way. Also look at the statistics, cities with strong gun control sanctions have more gun related crimes committed. And cities with relaxed gun control sanctions have alot less gun related crimes. Look at it this way, if you were a criminal and wanted to go into a store to rob it, would you go into a store that you knew everyone was carrying a gun or a store that you knew nobody had any means of protecting themselves? Well which would you pick? See people with guns is a good thing, people without is bad. Wake up EVERYONE!!!
Total waste of ammunition, total ego stroke BS, total toy.
Well aimed single fire please, and stop being children.
Holy shiz man, are you always that big of a prick? They pay for their own ammunition, not you. It’s their gun, not yours. Let them do what they want to with their own damn things. You may think it’s stupid, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that everyone who buys this childish. It’s your OPINION, not the f’ing truth. Sheesh…
Personally, I’d love to get my hands on one and try this out, but I’m an AK guy and don’t have an AR so…bleh
You aren’t very cool, just stupid… just like people who like to “bump-fire”.
They make them for AK’s also. They are $300.00.
I am a resident of the state of California and i was wondering Would the Simulated Automatic Fire AR-15 – The Slide Fire SSAR-15 would it be legal in the State of California because they have a law that have stricts concerns for an AR-15. I was wondering if it would be legal to have this if so i could buy it. Please reply back thank you.
They are legal in the Republik of Kalifornia. I sell them on my website at http://www.tacticalrapidfire.com
The slidefire stock is 100% illegal in California, and anyone that tells you different is ignorant of the law. But feel free to own and use it if you don’t mind a free year of room and board in a county jail or state prison.
12020 PC.
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any ……, any multiburst trigger activator,
(c)
(23) As used in this section, a “multiburst trigger activator” means one of the following devices:
(A) A device designed or redesigned to be attached to a semiautomatic firearm which allows the firearm to discharge two or more shots in a burst by activating the device.
(B) A manual or power-driven trigger activating device constructed and designed so that when attached to a semiautomatic firearm it increases the rate of fire of that firearm.
Who is is ignorant of the law… This stock does not activate the device/trigger, it provides support for the trigger finger dumb ass
(B) A manual or power-driven trigger activating device constructed and designed so that when attached to a semiautomatic firearm it increases the rate of fire of that firearm.
Does it increase the rate of fire? yes
Does it attach to a semiauto firearm? yes
Then it is a trigger activating device and IS illegal in California.
If you want to own one, go ahead, but I wouldn’t buy it or even possess it.
My souce: the Calguns Foundation
Your finger activates the trigger.
Arthur you are a prime example of Californian hippie pussies. If you buy this stock and dont go flaunting it every where who would know you had it? I’m going to get one real soon before our great dictator obama husaine decides he wants to take more of our constitutionally protected rights away! I say get as much as you can before the government comes to take it away. PROTECT YOUR FAMILY FRIENDS AND COUNTRY!!! RISE UP AND DEFEND!!!
Despite what the articles says, I don’t see much control or accuracy in the video. If you want a full auto, take a deep breath, and do the ATF paperwork. I much prefer aimed fire, to spraying lead everywhere.
I own a sub-machine gun, and can tell you, it takes alot more than holding your breath to buy one. They start at several thousand dollars and take months to proccess. All of this while opening your home to the atf at their discretion. I have no idea how long this will last, but I say enjoy it while you can. I’ve spent alot more for less. Who knows the cheapest place to find them.
There’s been a fair amount of buzz about this on various gun forums and like most folks talking on them, I don’t think that it will take too long for the ATF to issue a new letter. This is a little different from Bill Akin’s device, but not a whole lot. Like bob j, I don’t want the ATF to take it away, but I just don’t see it lasting. And, for what it’s worth, I don’t get the thrill of throwing as much lead downrange in as short a time as possible. There’s just too much stuff moving on this thing to actually hit anything. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Want stability & accuracy?
Buy a Jerry Miculek break.
$35-50…& that takes care of that!!!
where can i buy a Jerry Miculek break …… thanks Rick
4 years later. Still for sale. Still nothing from the ATF. And the price is 1/3
I have two and they are awesome; one on a 556 and the other on 7.62×39. Much easier than the standard bump fire. All you have to do is hold tight on your shoulder, pull forward one time and it will do the rest, you can even let go of the forearm and it still will rock & roll.
KobK,
I have been considering a 7.62x39mm AR for some time. I am curious, which make and model do you have? What magazines are you using with it? I’ve read on numerous forums that nobody is making good quality AR mag is 7x62x39. Thanks in advance for any information you can share!!!
JeffG
Contact ArmaLite, they make (made) last year a number of M-15’s in 7.62×39. They have a priority magazine, 30 round for this caliber for the AR style rifle. The magazines run around $ 30 to 40 dollars each.
They work great.. I have one of the rifles, sold one and he loves it.
Joseph
Would it work on a Sig Sauer 556 pistol? Or does it need a butt stock to work?
no
Ditto JeffG’s comments. I have always loved the AR but have been holding out for a tested and true 7.62 model. If you are willing to share some wisdom I am standing by to absorb.
I own an unknown maker (A.O. arms or Aero Arms I believe) 7.62×39 upper on a Plum Crazy lower. I had issues for a while with soft primer strikes with WOLF ammo, and even sometimes with nice yugo brass. The problem ended up being excessive headspace. I bought a new DPMS bolt and eventualy had to swap out the polymer trigger group for an old DPMS set I had laying around. It now runs great and debunks alot of the poor accuracy myths associated with the round. I’m not driving tacks (2-2.5 moa), but I feel really comfortable about using this setup for hunting with some soft point ammo. I will put a better trigger in it when money allows so I can really see what she can do.
nice.
I read the whole article and am curious:)
What do you mean by “pull forward”?
It is more of a push forward.
This looks like fun and works too well to believe ATF sanctions it for long. It looks like the perfect makings of a “stalking horse” for ATF & the gun control crowd to me. This gives sizzle to the emotional ploy they want to make that will allow “rational” people to see that it’s just too dangerous to allow people to own “semi-Automatic” guns of any kind. These are the same people who forced gun dealers near the southern border to sell multiples of .50 Cals to suspicious looking dudes in order to make their own case of Mexican cartels using US weapons. It’s the “give ’em enough rope to hang themselves” ploy. Hey just cause we’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re Not out to get us. 🙂
“Rotsa Ruck” ! for ATF not banning them,anything that works that good,it is as good as real “fool” auto and surely they will not allow us peons and slaves to own legally for long. they are on their high horse now about banning things ,like so called non sporting shotguns ??? and sure to get around to this .watching this video alone is enough to give anti gun politicians cardiac arrest. and owners of device real arrest soon, if not turned in when they ban it . we peons just cant have any fun .for long.