Polymer80.com in the included jig.
One of the more interesting phenomena to watch the last two presidential elections has been the explosive growth within the AR15 80% lower receiver market, and today we’re going to build one from Polymer80.com.
Why make your own AR?
An AR-15 is a modular beast. Though more than 200 companies sell specific configurations, many shooters prefer to put their own rifle together from a variety of modular components. They may buy a complete rifle, but shortly after they finish adding things to it, they begin swapping parts out.
But there’s more. The lower receiver is a registered part. When you buy an AR-15, the piece that makes it a firearm is the lower, which will have a serial number that is recorded on the 4473 that you fill out with your local FFL. Even though we aren’t supposed to have a national gun registry, many are hesitant about telling Big Bother that they own a scary black rifle. The DIY lower is a way around this. Any hunk of aluminum, steel, or even polymer could be built into a lower, if you had the technical know-how and the right tools. And if you do this yourself, and you do it for yourself, you are not required to tell anyone, fill out any forms, or register anything. If you make a gun for yourself, one you don’t intend to sell, it is perfectly legal. That’s the real appeal here. Make yourself an AR, and do it yourself, and no paperwork.
Traces of the red are still visible inside the finished lower.
This is perfectly legal as long as you are “legally able to purchase a firearm” and do not sell them without first registering the “made” receiver. If you do want to sell a home brew firearm receiver, you will need to register it, which requires a $200 tax stamp registration, which is hardly worth the cost (unless you created one seriously unique masterpiece).
Some companies have made this whole process easier by creating kits that take an almost-completed-receiver-like-thing and some instructions on how to remove the rest of the superfluous material. These are commonly referred to as 80% receivers. They are 80% complete. Remove the extra 20%, and what started off as an almost-receiver suddenly becomes (legally and functionally) a real firearm. Some of these kits are aluminum, some polymer. And some are easier to finish than others. While a polymer kit (with a good jig–like the one we’ll look at below) can be finished with a simple drill press, the aluminum ones are more complex. Most mill those, and that’s not a skill most of us possess. There is the temptation for some to buy the kit, and someone else finish it (like a qualified machinist). At this point in time, the rules on that are really murky–it is best to do it yourself. And far more gratifying. Finishing an 80% lower allows a home hobbyist to make a firearm at home for the experience and pride of a job well done.
For the vast majority of us though, we just love the idea that as a law abiding gun owner can legally make and shoot a gun no one knows about or is tracking. Yeah, that whole 2nd Amendment rights thing. The general idea of an unfinished 80% lower receiver is that a buyer can use a partially complete 80% AR15 receiver to make their firearm. As far as the ATF is concerned, 80% lower receivers are still just a chunk of raw material and are not considered firearms. As such, an 80% lower receiver can be easily purchased without an FFL transfer just like any chunk of aluminum or polymer. Heck, they can even be legally sold in vending machines, or to minors since they are just raw materials. Wouldn’t that freak out the anti gunners?
The complete Polymer80.com receiver with the a parts kit and the jig and milling bits and pistol grip: $160.
The build process
I will note that DIY home firearm building is not the least expensive or easiest route to building a firearm. Picking up an inexpensive finished cosmetic blemished $50 receiver from your local FFL dealer is the easiest, however that is not what making your own gun is about. The basic polymer lower and jig comes in at $95. But like building your own guitar, or building a classic car, it isn’t about the cost. This isn’t something you do to save time or money.
By ATF’s definition, an AR15 lower receiver is not considered a firearm until it has the ability to accept a fire controls (trigger, sear, springs, …etc.) Until the firearm reaches that state, it is not considered a firearm and therefore is not a regulate-able firearm. Using this ATF ruling, most 80% lower receivers have all the more complex machining aspects of the lower receiver complete except the fire control pocket (where are the trigger control parts are installed) and trigger, hammer and selector switch holes.
The 80% terminology is also a little misleading as I would argue that milling out a fire control pocket and drilling a couple holes does not represent 20% of the work, however the 80% name stuck and that is what the product is referred to industry wide. Some manufacturers claim to have 90% lowers, others sell 80% lowers which are more like 50% complete and require extensively more machining than most industry standard models. Some manufacturers offer completely raw AR15 forging receiver blanks for the super adventurous home fabricator. There really is no standard when it comes to 80% lowers.
Snap it together and clamp it in place.
Polymer80.com has come up with an interesting concept with a polymer AR15 80% lower receiver kit. The kit delivers an easier path to finish the drilling and milling than regular 7075 or 6061 forged aluminum receivers for DIY home gun makers. The reason is mainly due the softer/easier to cut polymer construction. The Polymer80.com has most of the key areas pre-molded/machined, includes a disposable jig, and even drill/mill bits in a kit all for around $95. It is about the same price as a decent finished aluminum forged receiver, however it includes everything needed in the kit to complete the finishing excluding power tools.
Making your own AR15 lower receiver from an 80%’er usually requires creating a fire control pocket and drilling three holes: two for the trigger and hammer pins, and one for the selector switch. These are tasks which are all easier when the material is polymer versus forged aluminum.
Drilling the three holes is something anyone can do assuming they know where to drill, however creating the pocket is generally where the challenge begins. One of the huge appeals on the Polymer80.com lower is that you can just drill and then carve the fire control pocket out with a Dremel with just a light amount of cursing. This drill and Dremel finishing technique is theoretically possible with aluminum lowers as well, however very painfully slow and generates far more cursing.
The instructions are clear and the guides are easy to follow.
Most 80% receiver manufacturers also offer some type of drill jig which provides guides for drilling the holes and supporting various methods creating the fire control pocket. Bolt the jig to the 80% lower, drill the holes and you at least have places for all the pins and selector switch to go and potentially some of the key areas milled out on the fire control pocket. The fire control pocket is the more difficult machining operation especially with very hard 7075 aluminum forgings, however many companies have figured out ways to create pockets more easily with milling guides and drill-n-Dremel templates.
Polymer80.com saw this challenge and decided to put together a kit for the DIY’er who probably already owns either a free-standing or tabletop drill press. If you do not, Harbor Freight has tabletop drill press models regularly available for around $70. An additional drill vise is a requirement and preferably one which is an X-Y Axis machinist vise for the drill press. What this drill press and vise will deliver is a vertical precision cutting capabilities of an end mill to perform move and drill material removal. It will not deliver the precision X-Y milling capabilities of a mill, however it will get you very close so that the final fitting and Dremel work is not so extensive and time consuming.
The jig allows for easy pilot drilling of the trigger shoe start/stop holes.
Polymer80’s jig is based on drilling out the majority of the areas with the included mill bit and drill press and then using a Dremel tool to finish things up. More specifically, the fire control pocket guides combined with the triple flute mill and set depth gauge allow all the key front and rear fire control pocket areas to be cut to the right depth and position. All that remains is to just remove everything in between the cuts at the same depth.
Included in the kit is a 5/32″ drill bit for the two holes for the trigger and hammer pins, 5/16″ bit for the trigger shoe hole, and 5/8″ bit for the selector switch. Also included is a 7/16″ triple flute end mill to be used in the drill press to mill out the rough fire control pocket.
The inclusion of the end mill in the Polmer80.com is a plus as typically the bulk removal process is accomplished via a 3/8″ or 1/2″ drill bit. The pointed drill bit tips do not deliver a clean flat cut on the bottom of the pocket and don’t work particularly well moving sideways through material if you do have that capability with your drill press; an end mill bit does a great job at all these things. I have done the drill-n-Dremel method and my before and it worked, however I would rather use an end mill bit which will deliver both a far superior finish and a faster completed product.
Included drills and mills with the kit.
Most 80% Jigs provide End Mill cutting guides. A smaller tabletop end mill like the $880 3960 HiTorque Mini Mill I own from Little Machine Shop is awesome and can do anything required for making your own lower receiver. Now that I own this wonderful and fabulous tool, I will never return to the drilling and Dremeling method of finishing a 80% lower. This mill does a great job on aluminum, however on polymer it is stunningly fast. I was able to finish one of the Polymer80.com lowers in about 30 minutes start to finish. The only real time consuming items were the initial setup and managing all the spiral streamers the end mill bit sheds during the cutting process.
Included in the bag is the polymer lower receiver, the drill bits, the jig, set screw bolt catch, pistol grip nut, pistol grip screw, Allen wrench, and jig screws. Slip the jig around the lower and screw in place with the included screws. The trigger and hammer pin holes can be drilled with the 5/32″ bit and the selector switch hole with the 3/8″ bit using the the jig’s drill guides. Obviously a drill press is highly desirable even for this step to deliver a 90 degree hole perpendicular to assure proper trigger, hammer and selector switch alignment and functioning. The milling out the fire control pocket may seem like the chore, however drilling out these three fir control pin holes are actually the most critical from a precision perspective. The pocket milling can be quite a bit out of spec and still deliver a perfect functioning rifle.
Little Machine Shop Table Top HiTorque Mill used for finishing the lower.
Standing up the jig, the jig provides guide holes for drilling out the trigger shoe hole with the 5/16″ bit and straight cut holes for the mill bit to remove larger portions of the trigger control group and provide start and stop points for milling. Polymer80.com supplies a stop collar for the end mill bit which is very helpful whether you opt for a drill and Dremel route or own a mill. Using the preset stop collar and end mill bit you can drill start and stop points to the correct depth for the upper and lower stepped down areas. Just tighten the mill in your drill press and drill down until the collar hit the top of the jig at two front and rear points for the upper pocket and two front and rear points for the lower fire control pocket areas. Probably one of the easiest kits I have found simple due to this very elegantly delivered feature of the kit. If you have a mill as I do, these guides coupled with the included end mill and stop collar provide very quick reference points.
At this point the top of the jig must be cut or milled off to expose the remaining milling/Dremel jig guide-lines. If you do not have a mill, your drill press can be used with the end mill bit to move from area to area within the guide to just drill out the bulk of the material and then finish and fit the trigger control with Dremel “tuning”.
Milling out the polymer leaves a bit of a mess.
I used my drill press for the drilling and then moved over to my Little Machine Shop HiTorque Mini Mill vice. Once mounted, I used the front and rear jig guides to start the pocket milling and then milled off the top of the jig guide. Once that operation was complete I used the guides on the disposable jig and began milling out the fire control pocket.
A final test fit of the hammer and trigger group and I had a completed lower ready for a final inspection and assembly. With polymer lowers, home builders will find that polymer flexes during the machining process, so holes will actually be a little undersized and the sides of the trigger control pocket may need a little extra tuning after being freed from the jig. Final finish steps are to clean out all the pre-drilled holes including detent holes and hit the sharp edges with a little sandpaper and you are ready for final assembly.
Polymer80.com includes a nice quality triple flute endmill and pre-set stop collar to mill the start/stop upper and lower fire control pockets. All that is needed after this is to just remove material in between.]
Polymer80.com has included a couple hardware pieces which should be used during assembly to increase the strength and durability of the polymer lower. These pieces include the set screw bolt catch pin, dowel pin for bolt catch, pistol grip nut and grip screw.
Most people will just use whatever the cheapest parts kit they can find however I think that is the wrong way to go on a AR1 lower you will have to the rest of your life. I used a high quality Barnes Precision Machine AR15 parts kit for the assembly of the lower plus a very nice billet PWS premium buffer tube assembly and a Mission First Tactical Minimalist buttstock. The build went together as easily as any other AR15 lower receiver I have assembled.
I was actually so impressed with the looks of this lower that I decided a well appointed upper was in order. The rifle is finished with an Aero Precision Upper, WMD NiBo Carrier, Sharps Relia-bolt, Aero Precision Lightweight 5.56 Barrel, PWS Brake, Parallax Tactical Gen 2 15” Free-Float forend, AB Arms T-Grip, and the Konus Pro optic I have been testing out on builds.
The differential color does provide some milling guidance, however as shown in the trigger ready finished lower, the coloring is not exact.
One of the considerations many have of polymer receivers is durability, however I have not had any realistic reliability issues with any polymer receiver I have ever tested including this Polymer80.com version. Now if you want to go and attempt grossly negligent destructive tests, I am positive you can break it, however no normal use I threw at the Polymer80.com produced any unsurvivable blows. Heated arguments can be made on whether well designed Polymer lowers are actually stronger than aluminum version… after all polymer lowers are all the rage. Due to the flex of the polymer, I would bet that a well designed polymer lower might actually take more abuse because it will flex instead of break, however that is an argument I have yet to put to the test.
I will skip that highly contested point and just note that I had zero issues with any pins coming loose, no stress fractures, or performance related issues after over 550 rounds of 5.56 NATO spec ammo. All the typical magazines from metal Mil-Spec, Magpul, and Troy all worked perfectly and dropped free from the receiver.
Nice little custom touches are included on the customer billet looking polymer lower including front magazine well grip, extended trigger guard, and extra thickness in critical stress areas.
The profile/molding of the Polymer80.com is much beefier in the higher stress magwell and buffer tube union areas than a MilSpec profile forging which also delivers increased strength and a cool custom look. From a looks perspective, I give the Polymer80.com receivers high marks as passing as a custom billet receiver especially after dressing it up a bit with a few cool accessories.
One big advantage to the molded in color is that scratches did not show like they would on a black anodized aluminum receiver.
FINAL THOUGHTS
I have finished more than a few 80% lowers; some forged 7075 aluminum, a couple in billet aluminum, and a few in polymer. The Polymer80.com was far easier even on the mill to finish up than anything in aluminum and for the guy with limited machining capabilities, the polymer material is definitely the way to go especially for a full kit priced under $100.
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Part Description ITEM Qty per Lower
- AR15 Lower Receiver G150 1
- Set Screw Bolt Catch Pin 3mm 1
- Dowel Pin for Bolt Catch 5/8in 1
- Pistol Grip Nut 3/8in 1
- Pistol Grip Screw 1.5in 1
- Allen Wrench 1/16th 1
- AR15 Jig J150 1
- End Mill and Stop Collar for Fire Control Pocket 7/16” end mill 1
- Drill Bit, Trigger Shoe Hole 5/16” drill bit 1
- Drill Bit, Safety Selector Switch Hole 3/8” drill bit 1
- Drill Bit, Pin Holes for trigger and hammer 5/32” drill bit 1
- Screws for tightening Jig 6
- MSRP $160.99- Polymer80.com
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Ergo grip, Barnes Precision parts kit, and PWS billet buffer tube.
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The Polymer80.com Jig is easy to use to drill the three holes for the selector switch, hammer, and trigger.
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Milling out the polymer leaves a bit of a mess.
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My complete build using the Polymer80.com lower.
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Is it noticeable that the lower receiver is made from polymer?
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Parallax Tactical Gen 2 15” Handguard, AB Arms forward grip, and PWS brake complete the Aero Precision barreled action.
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The MFT Minimalist stock.
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I was tired asking for people on how to do setup my apple watch. Here is where I got all my questions answered – http://www.google.com – Thebest facilitator I ever met.
…which will have a serial number that is recorded on the 4473 that you fill out with your local FFL. Even though we aren’t supposed to have a national gun registry,
We now DO have a national gun registry…. What do you think is happening when you are forced to ask Big Dady
Governments permission to exercise your right (that’s what a “background check” is) ? You have to fill out paperwork
to “prove” you the serf got permission from your rulers (kinda like being in a feudal state eh ? ).
Some companies have made this whole process easier by creating kits that take an almost-completed-receiver-like-thing and some instructions on how to remove the rest of the superfluous material.
From 1992 to 2012 I held no fewer than 4 Federal Firearms Licenses. Two of them were for a firearms manufacturing business I had from 1999 – 2012; FFL Type 07 (Manufacturer of Firearms), and SOT Class II (Manufacturer of NFA Weapons). My familiarity with BATFE R&R (Rules and Regs) qualifies me to make two corrections to this article. These corrections are regarding BATF RR (Rules and Regulations). State laws may contravene BATF RR so buyer and seller beware.
First.
BATF RR does not require any – I repeat, BATFE R&R does not require any – registration of (semi-auto) AR15 firearms made from an 80% lower by a non-licensee (someone without a manufacturing FFL).
Second.
A non-licensee may sell his home made (semi-auto) AR15 firearm to any “qualified” non-licensee (“qualified” means the buyer isn’t prohibited by local, state, fed law from buying/owning the guy you’re selling him); without “registering” that firearm. See “First” above re:”registration”
Third.
Some background. The $200 registration fee referred to in the article refers to a Treasury Department tax on the transfers of NFA weapons. This tax was introduced as Federal law under the National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA). The NFA did two things. First, it created a definition of what an NFA weapon was. That definition is, essentially, machine guns, sub-machine guns, short barreled rifles and shotguns, suppressors, pen guns, and “any other weapon” as defined under further sections of NFA. Second, NFA made the sale of the described firearms a taxable event by requiring the buyer of said firearm to pay a $200 tax to the Treasury Department. Upon receipt of the tax, Treasury would issue a receipt to the taxpayer. This receipt is erroneously today called a “machine gun permit” or “machine gun license”. It’s neither. It’s a receipt for tax paid to own the NFA item. It proves lawful ownership of the item.
With that background, you’ll see that because a semi-auto AR15 isn’t an “NFA weapon” according to NFA definition, it can not be registered according to the registration process defined and described in The National Firearms Act of 1934; for which BATFE has responsibility to “administer”.
Don’t want a poly lower that doesn’t come with an integral buttstock: anything else is going to be too weak at the “L.” Some things poly is good at, some things metal is better. Offer a poly lower that’s designed to be made from poly, & not some half-@ssed kludge of a lower designed for metal done up in polymer, and you might have a sale. Otherwise, it’s a limited life-span issue.
Way too many outhouse lawyers with too much wrong info or disinfo.. it boils down to.. Buy it if you want it, Dont buy it if you dont and either way you dont have to tell anyone about it. Pay cash if you can and avoid all the hoopla.
Yank lll
Great article. Thanks for the info, it’s easy to understand. BTW, if anyone needs to fill out a ATF form printable, I found a blank form here.
Why would anyone pay twice the price, for something that there is a good possibility of messing up, than a pre made lower of excellent quality. To avoid”big brother” knowing you have this? Most people who buy these, will buy from the Internet and use a credit card. Are we stupid enough to believe that the government does not “flag” these websites? Maybe the government runs some of these sites!!! If you can legally buy a firearm, just buy a premade lower for half the cost. If it is defective you will have a warranty. Makers of these 80 percent kits love your paranoid thoughts, they make big money because of it. If you have a mill and the skill, buy a piece of material and make your own.
“Most people who buy these, will buy from the Internet and use a credit card.”
This is the myth of the “online gun sale.” It is a myth because it’s only half the story. If you’re buying a new lower in a retail transaction (see my parenthetical note, below), because the lower is the firearm, once you locate one online and pay for it with a credit card, it must then be shipped to an FFL and the transfer is handled from that point like any other sale by an FFL. (The fact you that specified “credit card” is an indication that you’re talking about a retail sale. Private sales are conducted with checks and, usually, cash, not credit cards.)
so , if I get the polymer 80 percent lower kit with jig and parts , where do I get the rest of the gun parts and how much also , I have an 80 percent aluminium anodized lower . can I reuse the jig with the polymer kit to finish it too ? can I get the same gun parts to complete both lowers ?
The parts are really anywhere including them. Call them about the jig though. I don’t know why it wouldn’t work.
Stuart, Go to our website, or shoot me an email at [email protected] – I’d be happy to assist and provide advice directly and will give you my phone number in email if you want to chat about your rifle project.
Spot On Byron Being in the Machine Shop Business and a current FFL holder I have done some research into this. Tax Stamps are for NFA items.
To much paranoia among the Masses. Just because you fill out a 4473 does not mean the Feds know anything about you. That piece of paper is between you and your FFL, it is not shared with the Feds. To my knowledge it has always been legal to make you own Firearm, ( as long as it is not an NFA weapon or silencer ).
Come on Big Tex, are you telling us that when the police come and ask to see your 4473’s to ‘check for something’ in an ongoing investigation, what are you going to do, refuse? LOL!.
I suppose you’re also going to tell us you don’t do the background checks, which amounts to nothing more than a data base for the sole purpose of forming a gun registry! Don’t you have to turn over ALL your records to BATF if you go out of business? LMAO!
The ‘Feds’ know EVERYTHING you put on that 4473. Any time they want. I’m surprised at how gullible everybody is–even people who should ‘know’ better.
There’s not too much paranoia among the masses, there’s not Enough! Other wise we’d all get off our lazy asses and repeal all these un Constitutional laws.
Tex,.. Why are you misleading people??? If you really have a FFL , then you know that you have to send the papers to the ATF. Also you have to keep them with you for 20 years and send them after the 20 years , and if you close before the 20 years you also have to send them to the ATF. My local seller was more honest than you and plainly told me he always have to send them to the ATF. Just because you fill out a 4473 does not mean the Feds know anything about you? Now that is a troll comment and very disinformative. Really,.. who you work for??
There is a lot of misinformation in this comment section, for your information, per provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, an unlicensed individual may make a “firearm” as defined in the GCA for his own personal use, but not for sale or distribution.
Also, a receiver is not a NFA “tax stamp” item so you don’t have to file a form 1 “application to make and register a firearm” with the ATF, a form 1 is used for a firearm that has been converted to a NFA “tax stamp” item or manufactured in such a manner, the ATF is the one who makes the determination if a item is classified as a NFA “tax stamp” item not you, thus the reason for the form 1 application to make and register a firearm.
80% receivers will never qualify for NFA “tax stamp” status due to the fact that it’s never been registered with the ATF, because doing so would require the possession of a manufacturer license.(7,10,11 just one not all) Also, you must pay the excise tax of 11% of the value of the firearm to the internal revenue service and you must be in compliance with (ITAR) international traffic in arms regulations this is controlled by the Department of State.
Correct, as far as you go. I’d put a finer point on it. A person can make (I won’t say “manufacture” because that’s a term of art) his own firearm AND he can sell it. The law doesn’t say he can’t sell it, it says he can’t make a firearm for the purpose of selling it. As long as the firearm was NOT MADE FOR SALE, it’s perfectly legal to sell it.
What does this mean? It means that if you make a firearm, put a thousand rounds through it, then sell it three years later, it’s going to be awfully difficult to prove that you “made it for sale.” (Especially, if like most gun owners, you can show a regular turn over of buying guns then selling them later to finance new acquisitions. This is a normal pattern for gun owners and not unusual.) But if you make a gun and then sell it immediately or almost so, the ATF could then make a case that it was made for the purpose of the sale. It’s not that you can’t sell your made gun. Like any other piece of private property, you can lawfully dispose of, transfer, or sell it. But its sale under certain circumstance can make it look like it was made for the purpose of selling, while under other circumstances such purpose is not evident. How the AFT would view any particular sale is something of a crap shoot, but some sales of privately-made guns are quite safe, because the ATF is unlikely to attempt a prosecution of a hard-to-prove case (and can’t prosecute such a case if they never learn of the transfer in the first place).
I was woundering if one could use the 80% reciver to build a fully automatic. and i assume you would have to buy the tax stamp???
does the kit include a marker hole for the auto sear? after all this kit is for an ar. the auto sear hole is also lawful as long as you are registered as a manufacturer whereby you can mfg a select fire weapon. this question had to come up and i am the only one asking. just because a jig has a hole for the sear doesn’t mean you have to use it. but if you do use it you will be required to pay the $200 tax stamp and you must posses the proper licence (just like making a suppressor ). please correct me if i am wrong. let’s share this information so we don’t do something illegal. also, is there a jig available for making a select fire weapon?
joe
It does not include a marker hole for the auto sear. It does not have any indicator marks on it whatsoever.
As a true American and veteran I build what “I want to” suit my needs any it’s nobody’s business but my own … But let’s back up this thread to the statement made by “Russ”.
I mean no you no disrespect but loose your disrespect for our as you put it “Terrorist and Chief” breaking all the laws he wants as if he made those laws to suit his needs and agenda .
When the fact is the administration before his “MADE THOSE LAWS” and when his administration enforced them “NOBODY” complained or called him a “TERRORIST” and wanted our government to protect them even more.
So let’s stop bashing our current chief for enforcing what was in place before he took office cause he didn’t make the bed that he sleeps in.
I will not reply further to that “uncalled for comment” that I totally disagree with in this thread but I will order a Poly kit for my rifle and defend the man who said it even though……….
Hi Mr. Realist
Don’t worry , I feel no disrespect and am never offended, only enlightened when people expess their freedom of speech.
The two administrations had/have different agendas.
One wanted a strong country, the other wants a fundamentally changed country than what the forefathers set up for us.
So Barry twisted the laws to work against our liberties and freedom by ignoring our constitution.
As far as the executive laws Bush put forth that Obama shares, here’s an example of the twist;
Bush listened in on phone calls that were red flagged by terrorist key words.
Obama listened in on phone calls that were flagged by Tea Party or Patriot key words.
Bush never passed a law to kill Americans on our own soil. Are you catching my drift?
There’s way to much that you don’t know about this guy, and I don’t have the time or want to educate you on him. I don’t feel safe in doing so.
Go ahead and dig a little for yourself and vet this guy.
Others have and you will be astonished as to who he really is, where he’s coming from, and what he wants to do.
To. Two. Too. Too means “also” as in “I like that, too.” Can be used as an excess as in, “Too many calories will put on weight.”
Hey brother. Just wanted to say Bravo! You put it perfect in your reply. I figure,politicions on both sides are taking us in the same place,NWO. Obama(Barry) and his half Democrat party(35-40% r bama dems,others are Clinton dems) are takin us there full throttle. Gop(until past 3yrs),were movin very slowly in that direction up til cpl years ago.(thats when the gop bosses sold out). These commies(dems) claim to be constitutional scholars. More like,they were studying how to work around our rights and laws. When Bush was in,atleast I felt like he truly loved his country. May not have always made best dec’s,and pushed his pops NWO agenda. But atleast we felt safe. OBAMMA,on the other hand,is trying to get me and my family killed by letting in basically an ARMY of muslim radicals. Only 10-15% are women and children. The rest are 18-45 able bodied men. Now i am real good at puttin 2+2 together. I know the changes in Marshal law mr Obama has made(dictator powers). I watch the news on the hund of thousand syrian refugee(unvetted) being brought in and spread to states w,2 things in common. 1)states have Dem Gov and are Dem controlled house.
2) States must not chk ID,unless they are garenteed blue states like here(CT)
One more coincedence is,look at polls of states,cities offering to take immigrants and refugees,there all Democrat,and almost all their job approval ratings are in the 20’s. Bet they are reelected in a landslide.
Muhjesbude, Rob and Russ, correct on the raid by the BATF. Not only did they harass ARES ARMOR, but they also raided our shop and took some of our receivers, overstepping their authority of course and frankly stealing our stuff. This caused our company to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars over the last 3-4 months. Regardless, because we are doing the right thing, we made a come back with the Polymer80 Phoenix version, which has an all-black, solid core construction (answering one of the questions about the the ATF not liking the red core). Anyway, just wanted to pop in there and thank you guys, and this is a really good article – thanks Max for the review, very cool stuff.
Wow, didn’t know that.
Thank you for standing tall.
I’ll spread the word about your company.
Do you have an actual ATF letter stating these 80 lowers have been approved. You have my business if so
David, while i admire your company’s innovation, product, and ‘free’ market entrepreneurial talents, as an egalitarian ‘research specialist’, i’m interested in these commerce integrations with regard to our 2ns Amendment and have a couple ‘issue’ questions that pertain to the essence of your product’s ‘intrinsic value’ that i noticed on your website. And i wonder if you would be so kind as to have patience with me and help me out on this?
First of all, lets cut through the ‘brain fog’ and all understand what you are selling. You are actually providing the means for the production of a firearm that can’t be automatically ‘registered’. There is a very specific, but seriously growing customer base–as Max points out–for something like this. It consists of people who have a serious aversion toward current government intrusion and the invasion of their rights to private property.
So why are you keeping a ‘data base’ on the purchasers of these non-gun receivers which are nothing more than a plastic paperweight in their current state of commerce? I realize that for business optimization this is a common practice, but having computer ‘tracking cookies’ as you indicate on your website, and any form of data base on customers who are actually buying your product just SO THEY DON’T GET TRACKED in the first place, seems to defeat the purpose doesn’t it?
I seem to remember the story now that they got into your company safe or something and confiscated your ‘encrypted’ files?
We all know they can break any codes now. So why even have any files when dealing with this?
In other words, buying a receiver from you makes it almost easier to track than an FFL dealer? And don’t give me that typical status quo answer that ‘it provides better customer service’. The Best customer service is complete and total anonymity!
Also why do you state in your FAX section that you “have a strict police against selling to convicted criminals’. How do you know if your customers are or not criminals unless you keep a documented data base on them? Why is that any of your business in the first place? You’re not required to do a back ground check on a piece of inert plastic? Are you the regime’s secret police? Why can’t even a so-called felon buy a piece of plastic? He’s not restricted from buying a tube or a flare gun and much more easily put a 12 guage round in it and fire that?
And don’t give me that other ‘cop-out’ hyper specious Extremely tyrannical government lie about aggressive ‘crime prevention’ and the absurdity of ‘Public Safety’ answer and that if you’re doing nothing wrong you shouldn’t be worried about data bases and registrations? Because that, my friend, is EXACTLY what it’s all about. I’m more worried about people like you and google and facebook selling us all out to the G than i am of some of the people i have to arrest! You are all eroding MY FREEDOMS by compromising my privacy.
So, do you accept a money order by snail and send it Without all that other info… or what?
Thank you.
David may not be able to speak publicly.
But I’m hoping and betting you wont legally have to show an ID on this purchase.
If you did, It would burst my bubble and kill the whole deal.
Well, dude, I’m an apostle of Mark Twain who said: “..it’s not that people don’t know so much. It’s just that so much of what they know, just ain’t so!”
It also helps to subscribe to the old CPD detective school of thought that you should always ‘…believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see until you can check out the indisputable facts of what you hear and verify first hand, and have pictures of what you think you saw. preferably action videos.”
But it doesn’t take a homicide detective to figure this out. But helps to be ‘research’ oriented like i am. So everybody should consider the following on these things. David’s company was not raided because the BATF didn’t have anything better to do. This receiver is the ANTI-Christ for their covert citizen’s gun disarmament agenda which is the next ascension from the Constitutional violation of the 68 GCA.
To be able make it relatively simple for almost anybody who can drill a hole to put together the formidable Citizens number one Militia gun WITHOUT any paperwork literally smacks down these efforts in their tracks.
This they won’t allow. They are not quite set up yet in Utah to where the particular alphabet agency can simply put in your name and find out exactly everything you purchased off your card anywhere at anytime in your life, but we are guessing by about 2016 if things keep going the way they are. They’ll also be able to reverse directory and just punch in something like “who all in Kalifornia bought these things and where do they live”. With the ‘real id’ act into effect by then, if you have a drivers license they’ll be able to come right to your home, or previous addresses or any address you may have had in your life.
But By that time there could be 10’s of thousands of these ‘un-traceable’ AR-15’s in the hands of Patriots. Again, ‘THEY’ can’t even stand the thought of that. Bad enough there’s millions of relatively useless older guns floating around, but actual potential Military grade combat weapons that nobody knows about?! To them it amounts to the same thing as Libyan Islamists getting their hands on all those stingers that Muhammar had stashed in his arsenal. So that’s why the BATF raided David’s business. To intimidate them enough so that at least it can’t be as easy as it was when the inner material to be removed was a different color from the receiver.
Which obviously worked. But ‘Wait, there’s more! If you call now, we’ll Double the Offer!” Apparently there are a few more manufacturers of 80% Polymer lowers. One is the James Madison Tactical version and they have an actual ‘non firearm’ letter from BATF displayed on their website for a couple of us here who were interested in that, but when i tried to check their ‘privacy policy’ the page won’t come up, lol!
Then, there’s another polymar company that i can’t find at the moment but was there a couple days ago that when you purchase, must sign a statement and like David’s company also had a ‘strict policy on selling to just anybody’?! But theirs actually threatened to track your computer’s IP number/location, if you tried to use a false name, and phone numbers were an asterisk’d item for purchase! And of course if you pay by card, they…Gotcha!
So what does that tell you? I don’t mean to burst your bubble or piss on anybody’s parade but that’s what ‘bubbles’ are for and if you don’t get wet you don’t know it’s raining?
first of all, It tells me that these 80% receiver companies are ‘caving’ to the BATF. First on NOT making it so easy to build that your high school auto shop 16 year old can make some good chump change cranking them out faster than he can change a set of tires for his buds at the Flea markets and thus arming up the civilian militia potential, and then…
Setting up a paper trail for BATF to follow which is just as good as a form 4473, for cryin out loud! Maybe even easier? Rememeber, Russ, you don’t need to show an I.D. to be tracked. You can’t believe how easy it is with purchases. And this replicated effort by similar companies to make it ‘difficult for ex felons to buy’ an item that even they are NOT Restricted to buy, really Screams ATF pressure.
Pressure for the unjustified social engineering of our behavior, above and beyond our rights under the Supreme Law of the Land! It’s just a fucking piece of plastic as it’s sold? What’s next in their obsessive compulsive agenda, making the ‘thought’ of a so-called criminal act punishable by removing your inalienable rights for life?! What part of totalitarianism doesn’t anyone get yet?
Okay, I’ll restrain myself from moutholution soapbox, so lets get down to pragmatics. This IS a great product. For us and the people who make them. NOT the G. Companies are subject to the aphorism “money has no morals or trust’–I think Charles Krauthammer or one of those Fox finance experts’? So they don’t mind caving and complying with BATF’s ‘suggestions’ that to avoid future ‘trouble’ and potential liability from such a dangerous piece of inert plastic, they should do the tracking ‘disclaimer’ info on every purchaser. You heard David mention here how much the BATF interfered with his ‘business’. He doesn’t care about rights to privacy or 2nd Amendment freedoms of private transactions when he’s making bucks hand over receiver? He just wants BATF to leave him alone and give his company their ‘letter’ of product approval. Which, unlike those ‘de-milled’ smg kits you’ve seen everywhere for years to make ‘dummy’ display models out of, lol. need to have a letter of ‘approval’, i don’t get why a single piece of plastic needs that? This also shows how serious they are about these things. A company will always cave and release your ‘privacy’ information to the police. Phone companies and Post offices do it just for the police asking. No warrants necessary. They don’t even have to invoke the patriot act. Recently there was a big scare in the ‘alternative weaponry’ community about a drop in AR part–also just a 25 cent piece of sheet metal –that turned any AR into select fire. By itself it was just like this piece of plastic here, an inert no function piece of metal. Until they ‘decided’ it was a machine gun all by its lonesome. So they raided the company that made and sold these little sear tripping lightning links, confiscated their inventory AND their customer list. Then the ATF sent out nice little warning letters to anyone who bought them that guess what? You can search this on the net.
So the only way–until we can just get the 68 GCA repealed– you can really ‘hide’ anything from anyone that you don’t want stolen like your stash of silver coins or something is to own a secluded but not necessarily too remote piece of land somewhere (too remote might make you too noticeable in appraching your property).
You would have to purchase the property for cash with your newly formed LLC as the listed owner (cheap to do yourself on legal zoom) Then after a couple months transfer the title of that again to a New Mexico LLC (check out J.J. Luna’s website) which doesn’t even require the names of the corporate owners!) Use no paper trails or links on this corp from you and the dwelling that is on your driver’s license or car plates. None. (and no storage places please, either, unless you are able to rent it in disguise without showing a drivers license or cameras recording your plates. Remember, for ultimate secret privacy, if three people are to keep a secret, two of them must be dead.
Then you go out there as discreetly as possible and very ‘privately’ dig yourself a bunker at least a couple feet below the surface for your most private of things to hide. This must be done under the cover of trees.
That’s about as good as it’s going to get in terms of blocking a track on your stuff from the Government. I know it’s an effort and cost money. But what price Freedom and Security? At this point it’s still pretty much a physical impossibility to randomly search every single property in the country by hand for anything in particular. That’s why they can’t track all the terrorist cells. They are relying more and more on technology, and the willingness of average people to volunteer to give them all the info they need.
And the best way to buy an ‘anonymous’ gun is still the dreaded ‘gunshow loophole” if you check out enough of them you should be able to find a cash and carry lower for around a hundred bucks. (hobby sellers buy a dozen at 45 bucks each and are happy to ask no questions for the profit they make. Wear a hat, glasses (cheap reading glasses on your nose work, and don’t position yourself directly toward any cameras if they are there and exercise your Constitutional right to privacy. While we still can.
So bottom line, my friends, unless you can mail in a money order to one of these companies for it with your delivery address being an abandoned or foreclosed property that you’ll be there waiting to pick it up on from the driver the day the delivery ‘tracking number’ says it will get there, the title for Max’s well done article here is FALSE.
The government can and Will know who bought these receivers and where they went anytime they feel like it unless the companies guarantee they keep NO sales records except the profits made for their taxes.
Muhjesbude
to answer your questions:
1. No one took our customer list, it is not stored onsite, but to communicate and to automate shipping, there’s simply no other way to do business at this volume and level.
2. The other option that a few folks take is to send us a money order and we’ll process the order and ship – specify that you do not want data stored – we will respect your privacy request. If you are in California please include 7.85% sales tax for our region.
3. You are correct, we just want the BATF to leave us alone, there’s no upside to that battle. But, they won’t and they are a tad too close to DOJ here in California, along with the judges. October 1st, we will be in Nevada where there’s at least a little more local respect and a great firearms and business community that is very welcoming to legitimate businesses such as ours.
4. Finally, I’d argue that building a home built firearm without registration is NOT a loophole, it’s the LAW federally and in most states. That’s where the front-lines of this battle are today. Example, SB808 here in California is desperately trying to reverse those federal rights (retroactively BTW!!).
Okay, Dave, thanks for clearing that up. I understand and sympathize with your situation. Because I am a ‘born again Libertarian’ meaning that i spent too many years as an ‘enemy insider’ before i found out the truth, i now advocate only for freedom and privacy and the Absolute Right of Individual liberty under the Constitution before anything else. Because without this we won’t have anything else. Because of my professional ‘experience’, i sometimes work for ‘gun rights’ attorneys who defend individuals and companies like yourself against egregious gun tyranny. I was associated in the Ruby Ridge case and the TC case as a consultant. Because even a lot of educated persons simply do not know the rights that they have, and the G/police are getting away with too much illegal intrusion just because ‘they can’ because they are not challenged.
I would suggest that you put covert security cameras in your ‘place of business’ and have your recorder on a 24 hour chip that is real time sent by cell link to a remote storage location in case somebody breaks in and destroys everything you’ll still have a recording of what happened. And you need sound also.
But mainly the purpose is that when BATF comes in and illegally harasses you, you don’t have to say anything or do anything except sit there and let them do whatever they want. Train your employees for that. If you don’t operate a public storefront, you do not have to let them in, unless they have a warrant and present it BEFORE they come in and search. But Never try to physically prevent their access if they don’t produce it. Later on your lawyers will make their lives as miserable as they tried to make yours.
Some of my clients who have good cause to be fearful of illegal and unwarranted property invasions and harmful excessive force which ultimately violate the 4th Amendment against VERY unreasonable search and seizures set up a couple of their employees/managers also as licensed in house security guards. Paying them a bonus for carrying on the clock, with the duty of observing and screening all unexpected visitor entry in addition to their regular duties works well in some cases. If you are a licensed business operation/factory you have protected commercial rights and are allowed to prevent access to your PRIVATE business by anybody. until you know who and what the intruders are. After all, in this day and age anybody can fraudulently pose as an agent or LEO. This gives you time…to call your attorney to alert them of the situation, and possibly get them there to personally monitor the sequence.
And you are smart to move to a more ‘business friendly’ environment. I recall a couple County Sheriff either in Wyoming or New Mexico or around there who–because of a recent SCOTUS ruling — does NOT allow random G intrusion or harassment for ANY reason on their citizens by fed agencies without FIRST notifying his office and justifying their purpose!! Or else they themselves will be ‘arrested’! Now There’s a good place for business?! Or when you get to Nevada, visit your Sherriff’s office and introduce yourself, ask him if she/he has the same policy, if so, assure him he’ll remain incumbent for as long as he wants, and offer to support his office as is your civic duty.
I personally think you provide a great patriotic service in countering the anti Constitutional efforts of some of these ‘organizations’ if you don’t have to cave too much these people just to survive and make a serious effort to protect privacy above all else. And i will now fully support your business and hope you do well and prosper immensely. Doing those .308 receivers will boost sales because gunstore AR-10’s are still pretty pricey and kit builders can save some dineros.
I think everybody should have a couple of these ‘un-trackable’ guns in their ownership, as long as it REALLY can’t be tracked.
Remember everybody, IT IS NOT A CRIME TO PROTECT YOUR PRIVACY! THEY are committing illegal acts by doing Non reasonable or justified infringements for their totalitarian agendas! It is, by the way, Our duty as citizens to correct this!
As for your point #4, there’s a misunderstanding. I gotta look back at what i wrote but i’m sure i wasn’t talking about ‘building your own as being a loophole’.? I thought i emphasized that it has been our Natural Rights to make home-made anything, including guns, way before anyone ever heard of BATF. I think i might have been referring sarcastically to what they call the ‘gunshow loophole’ or the 68′ GCA as to be THEIR ‘loophole’ to get a back door registry into effect just like exactly what 4473 background checks are. I know ‘g’ people who can and do check them anytime they want, lol! And of course when an FFL dealer goes out of business they have to surrender their files, don’t they?
So keep up the good work. Thanks for the info on SB808, We should all be checking stuff like that out for constant awareness. We all should be up on their below radar plans. And fight back with lawsuits and counters like repealing existing anti-Constitution laws. I just heard Harry the terrible trying something to the effect that he’s trying to stifle the 1st Amendment by some anti-speech Bill concerning pro gun political advertisements?!
Someone should also do Patriotic justice by building an 80% political CASKET for him. Hopefully this next midterm election?
good stuff – I’ll pass this great info on to our team!!…..love that last comment.
Glad I’m not the only one who spotted the glaring error.
If you’re selling a gun you made years ago for yourself there’s no need to “register” it with the ATF.
If you’re making a receiver to sell there’s no “tax stamp” that will keep you from getting a visit from black vans if you don’t have a manufacturers license.
Thank you Mr. Archer for this great review / information.
It goes down in my top 5 useful Guns America MBN&R.
I’m an entrepreneur, and you got my gears turning with this one.
I love making money helping people.
I may go into business throwing AR build parties.
There must be hundreds, if not thousands of people that would like to build their own AR type rifles for various reasons.
I can think of many different ways to cash in on this good deed business of helping build ARs
Thanks again.
It was Ares Armor
Max,
I’m right there with MH Snider, Polymer80’s site lists the kit for $169. so is this something that we shop for or just tell them that Max sent us?
go to AresArmor. $77
Max,
I’m right there with MH Snider, Polymer80’s site lists the kit for $169. so is this something that we shop for or just tell them that Max sent us?
All this does not matter. When they come for the guns, they will not care if you bought it, made it, SBR with paper work, plastic or metal. You will submit when the black clothed thugs beat your door down.
And the DIY AR will be in hiding.
Use your imagination and keep the location from the eyes in the sky.
I will not submit. I realize that I will not do well, or last very long. Nevertheless, I will fight. Perhaps someone younger & more capable will take courage from the act. Or, perhaps not. No matter …
I agree….I presume all these kit guns will be used to fight sooner or later…might as well be sooner…
Max, great article. This is what our 2nd Amendment freedom is all about. Thanks.
I caught a web article recently where the BATF raided a manufacturer–Kalifornia, i think– of these polymar 80% -ers with the red marked removal material like this one and seized all their stock because these were ‘way too easy’ to make, compared to the aluminum ones, or something like that? Obviously one of the ‘Admininstrative Fiat’ decisions. (or, maybe a competitor dropped the dime?) And they wanted the company’s list of customers? Is this the same company with a ‘reprieive’? Or did they file a lawsuit or something. I’m searching now but i can’t find anything at the moment on this?
Please check the ATF Regulations and consider editing your article. Exactly what $200 tax stamp would cover the manufacture and sale of this Title I firearm?
There’s no need for a $200 tax stamp. The National Firearms Act regulates Short Barreled Rifles, Short Barreled Shotguns, Silencers and Any Other Weapons. These firearms require application, registration and a tax payment. $200 or $5. These are Title II firearms.
Title I “normal” firearms can be manufactured by anyone who is legal to own/possess the firearm and do not require a serial number. If you want to sell the gun you made at some point, it will need manufacturing information and a serial number. It has nothing to do with a “$200 tax Stamp”. You can’t manufacture these solely for sale without an FFL/Manufacturing license, but you can sell your personally made firearm if it is engraved with the proper markings.
I would have thought that Guns America would have a better editorial review process, especially on topics involving the sale of firearms.
Your right, they did raid.
I’m a Californian who is very aware of what they did.
It was a case of government overreach by the gestapo in order to put companies like “AREAS ARMOR” out of business.
Their method was to legally tie up business and bleed them dry of all their cash.
NUTNFANCY is a no BS ex- military pilot, marksman and current patriot firearms aficionado who can shed a little light on this subject for you with a video he made.
Check it;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBVzsfF_wIM
OOPS – typo = “ARES ARMOR”
Thanks, Russ, this fits in with what i’m going to post on these receiver companies later today.
One Q i have to ask you. WTF are you doing in Kalifornia? Come on down by me homey, we could use someone like you?
I’m Trying to stand my ground here and hope it changes back to how it used to be before Carter and Clinton.
I have real nice Shasta & Yosemite land, and hate to sell it.
I also have Arizona and Nevada land, but not sure about living there, yet.
If I cave on CA and sell out, Montana or Idaho sound good.
What defendable jewel of a state do you live in?
I can understand that. I’ve been out West at times and it really is beautiful compared to almost anywhere else. And you can seem to enjoy privacy but when i lived in Utah for a while i realized some things that made me change my mind a bit about being out west like the 100 or so active volcanoes in the area, and the government’s ownership of 33% of the land in the country being concentrated in the Western 1/3 of the country, and no Earthquake potential at all under my ground here, and no hurricane threats and not much even in the way of tornadoes. And if Yellowstone blows sooner, rather than later, i’m well out of the heavy ash drop zone.
I’m one of those Apocalyptic and disaster fearing persons and i settled for retirement in the heartland, the exact location i’m not revealing for obvious reasons. The number one is that it will be the last hold out for pristine water supplies when everybody out your way will be at war over it. And overall it is the area with the least amount of potential g intrusion during martial law. While you can remain privately isolated and ‘anti-social’ easily enough, the entire area is ‘Prep-minded’ with every conceivable resource. And there is a substantial demographic of former military and retired police residing in the area so it would not be a good social environment for anarchists, Zombs, or any other looting and rampaging assholes who might stray off the beaten path.
Otherwise i love the Mountains out there if it weren’t for the mountain lions, bears , snakes, and other nasty critters that would make my nature walks a PTSD flashback of my jungle stomping days. There might by a Coyote or two around here, and maybe a small black bear rarely encountered, mostly nice friendly deer, but not even that many mosquitoes!, lol. And No poisonous snakes!
For someone who used to be able to slash a Cobra’s head off with a knife before it could strike, i guess i’m turning into a pussy as i’m getting older, lol!
In the article you keep saying less than $100 for the kit but at the end it says $169.99 for the kit. Where do you get the $100 ?
i would like the price and place on all the parts used.
can 10 mm and or 308 barrel be used with this.
I think many of the people commenting on here should forget about trying to make one of these, and concentrate harder on reading comprehension. This article clearly states the issues about the $200 tax stamp and how it will apply only if you would decide to sell this one day, but so many of you just read what you want to read. Unreal! Please, for all of us, just move on.
Is anyone making these polymer kits for the AR-10? I AM INTERESTED!!
X2 Definitely. If they field a 7.62 NATO capable receiver, my check is in the mail tomorrow morning.
Gentlemen
Please if they are taking up legally owned firearms,then things are not going well in Gotham and don’t
look for Bat Man to save your ass! This is the time you really would like to have unregistered weapons
to avoid such actions and who is going to be checking them for serial #’s at this time anyway?
Such weapons are really a last ditch effort to keep the wolf off the sheep wouldn’t you say?
I know you mean well, but the reactive defensive ‘mentality’ we have is just where ‘they’ want us. Being in a constant state of anticipation of losing our 2nd amendment rights–rights that are Guaranteed by the Supreme Law of the Land–and actually ‘planning’ for national registration and inevitable search and seizure–also a blatant criminal Constitutional violation–is like surrendering to a self fulfilling prophesy!
What are we, a bunch of silly ass Pussies?! Running around like skeeered little weasels digging our little holes in the ground to hide our stuff from tyrants and trembling like a bambi in a SWAT vehicle’s headlights, everytime we turn arouind? You know, the ones our great visionary Framers Warned us about, and made it possible for us to prevent? That is if we weren’t too ‘Afraid’ to do anything?
We should be going on the Attack! We should be demanding–no ORDERING our slovenly slatternly POS representatives to start reversing all these agenda based no pragmatic justification gun control statutes or face charges of sedition for not upholding their Oaths to the Constitution and duty to “We, the People”!
We should start with repealing the illegal NFA act of 1934 which was designed for no other reason that to facilitate the social engineering of FDR’s agenda based future and undermine the 2nd Amendment’s Militia Muscle.
And right along side that we need to completely abolish the 1968 Gun Control Act which opened the flood gates for ALL future progress on disarming the populate by immediately creating their own government ‘loophole’ to HAVE an illegal national registry right under our stuffed up noses!
Not to mention the most insidious and egregious fraud on the American Citizenry by actually getting away with allowing that the punishment for statutory social crimes would be other than fines or incarceration and be a permanent loss of your inalienable Constitutional rights in the form of voting and permanent loss of gun ownership. This was a greater hoax on the people than the Devil’s trick of denying his own existence!
By illegally making the permanent forfeiture of your 2nd and 1st Amendment rights a criminal punishment–which effectively spits in the eye of any concept of ‘paying for your crime’ and rehabilitation by punishing you forever and creating a sub culture of permanent criminals–it sets the play book for the next championship victory over your life! Just watch this season’s game schedule with Boxer’s ‘pause for freedom bill’ and the coming world UN summit and their ‘Arms Treaty’ ‘plans’ for us.
Now all ‘They’ have to do is make more so called ‘laws’ to make more people so called ‘criminals’ so that they can then easily Prohibit more people from owning weapons, thereby eliminating a large portion of the well armed Free People of the United states as they continue their incessant obsession to disarm us ALL! What a universal ‘Okey-doke’ on us! First make the punishment for virtually all criminal offenses one of permanent gun confiscation, and then it becomes relatively simple–especially for we simpletons–to make almost everything we do or say a crime, for which the punishment is permanent disarmament! WHAAhahahahahaha!
Think about it boys and girlies. In WWII if your uncle Stanley in his punk days got busted at age 21 for stealing cars during hard times in the hood and then got a resisting arrest and assault on officers charges after the police beat the shit out of him for running from them, and the judge said gulity, 5 to 10 in Joliet State Pen, but before they put him in irons and sent him off to the Big House, the judge said, ‘OBTW’ which they often did back then for the war effort, “since you like to fight’, I’ll suspend your sentence if you sign up for the Marines? An offer he couldn’t refuse.
Uncle Stanley came back a wounded warrior hero and became a hard working machinist and lived a productive law abiding citizen and raised a family. Nary a traffic ticket or a harsh word tainted his life. He was an ex felon, true, but he paid his dues and went on in life, to produce value. However, his 2nd Amendment rights were never abrogated? He taught his children to hunt and have respect for nature and firearms, and he owned a few military style firearms. After all, he was no longer a criminal, but WAS STILL and always would be…a Marine!
Then came the insidious ’68 GCA. Now uncle Stanley can no longer own a gun! What?! What is the hell bent reasonable objectiveness and logical presumption in that kind of ‘control’? Many of the Revolutionary Civilian Militia were scoundrel criminals in some form or another in terms of social integration but that didn’t preclude them from their right to own a gun! If they did something wrong they were punished and sometimes horsewhipped or thrown in jail until they were ‘adjusted’. Then when deemed ‘fit’ to return to society they could be free again and have their guns back. And that was BEFORE the Framers guaranteed this absolute right of humanity with the 2nd Amendment!
We all should start pulling our heads out of our asses and get this ship back in shape. Before THEY sink it all together while they’re sailing away laughing at us in their Yahoo Yachts!
After all, ‘we, the Free American People’ currently still remain THE largest Standing Army in the World. Why are we letting ‘Them’ get away with this?!
I think the same way as you do Muhjesbude.
But something is bugging me lately, quite literally!
Our Domestic Terrorist and Chief is breaking all the laws he wants.
And nobody is stopping him
His spying the hell out of all of us is getting more momentum.
This country is getting very pussafied, and I hate it.
I now feel I may become stifled, and here’s why;
Blogs like these may be getting targeted and certain peoples words may be red flagged.
This makes me want to quit talking about the views I have of this Socialist/Communistic Administration.
Barry’s actions are starting to affect on me and my freedom of speech.
So, because my 1st amendment rights are starting to be infringed upon, talking about my 2nd amendment rights are becoming something I may stop exercising.
I don’t feel like being a silent pussy, but I also do feel like a can’t rely on the majority of the US citizens to back me up. Pretty sad.
For survival, I might be forced into pussydom and shut my mouth.
I can’t tell you how much this tears me apart.
Russ, and I also think like you and Muhjesbude do. Or at least I used to think that way before I went on a recent camping trip in the Andirondack wilderness in upstate New York. My partner and I experienced an unfortunate canoe accident and my M1A rifle fell overboard. Worse, my pristine 1921 German Luger was also lost to that deep lake.
Some might ask why I brought along my favorite firearms on a fishing trip. Hey, you never know when you might encounter a rabid porcupine, right?
My sad story continues. I forgot to lock my gun safe after a late night of cleaning my gun collection. The next day we had to leave town to visit relatives over in Rochester, NY. You guessed it, my entire gun collection disappeared while we were out of town. Being more of a gun collector than shooter, most of those guns were “safe queens” destined for the care of future collectors or firearm museums. The ironic part of this was that I was planning to have a security system installed later that month.
Even though I was a gun collector, I had become somewhat of an ammunition hoarder. Wouldn’t you know it, all of the ammunition disappeared with the guns! I tell you I am one sad fellow. On the bright side of this narrative, I don’t have to register some of the rifles and shotguns according to the New York State S.A.F.E. Act. AR15 type rifles and high capacity pump shotguns are now treated just like handguns in New York. They have to be registered with the State Police. These “dangerous” firearms may not be sold, or even given to relatives. When the gun owner dies, the estate has to surrender all of the dangerous guns to the state police for destruction.
Boy, I’m sure glad I don’t have to go through all of that paperwork now!
Sorry for your loss! ;(
That is so weird Joe.
So many of us law abiding good American citizens are having bad luck episodes with our firearms and ammo.
The majority of which seem to be happening over bodies of water.
Next time I might keep my stuff safe in a random friends storage unit.
yeah, sorry for your loss, as well. I know a lot of guys that are also so stressed out and depressed by this regime and their gun confiscation efforts, like you obviously were which made you so nervous you had all those careless losses, they just let their wives sell ‘all’ their stuff and be done with it. Now the wife can honestly tell the government mandated police registration enforcement teams who come ‘a knock, knock, knockin’ that ‘he don’t own no stanking guns anyMO’!
But you know it just shouldn’t be that way. It’s a matter or PRIVATE property and reasonable expectation of privacy and protection against unwarranted intrusion by anybody, including the government!
Yet like Russ said, this government seems to be so far above the law, that all we see is the tip of their dicks pissing on us. We just shouldn’t be so despondent after our ‘losses’ of our stuff. We should still get out there and vote (while we still can even do that) and get people who will honor our constitution and make laws ONLY AGAINST violations of our freedoms and privacy.
I gotta go now but i’ll be back later this afternoon with some bad news on these receivers i just figured out after researching their websites. As usual in this convoluted world, nothing is as it seems with the sale of these things as well. Don’t buy any yet until you hear what i found out. Check back later for my post on it.
And Russ is right about the NSA keeping tabs on sites like this. Some of ‘us’ are already on their shit list. I’ll address that a bit more as well when i get back.
Joe-
As a 22+ years Army vet, ex-LEO and Court Investigator, I will tell you this. I created and have grown a group of American Patriots who who together to build and machine all of our own weapons(long guns). We have machinists and gunsmiths, Fiberglass, carbon fiber and wood craftsmen who build our own custom stocks, rails, hand guards, or whatever the customer wants. We do NOT sell or do work for “outside” public individuals. All the crafts being used are taught and used by our kids, wives and other group members. We reload and “cast” our own bullets when needed also. The point I’m trying to make is this-we don’t need or have to go out and buy anything that has to be ATF “registered”.
We are now in the experimental stages of producing our own powders from “bulk” materials we stockpile-formulations are the key and the most time consuming. Being totally self-sufficient is our ultimate goal. At some time this may/will save lives, time and property if/when the SHTF. This is the ONLY way to be truly FREE from the clutches of the FED’s and their un-American laws and regulations. What part of “…shall not be infringed.” do they NOT understand?
GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
MOLON LABE
I agree with you 100% on your ENTIRE ARTICLE!
Interesting. But anyone contemplating doing this should remember to check their state laws regarding assault weapons which many only be concerned with actual possession, not details of construction.
Using the term “Assault weapon” is one of the major reasons the FED’s are attacking our gun rights-all responsible gun owners should try and refrain from using this totally wrong title for a semi-automatic rifle. Thank you!
In the review, shouldn’t their be some sort of comparison of the durability of the poly versus aluminum lower receivers? Especially since he references the aluminum one in the build for comparison on how it is built. And with the durability, how about temperature? Heat and extreme cold? I would like this info as I am looking to build one soon.
We hope to do a 2nd article on the performance of the gun itself.
I’d like to see a performance test over the long haul. 500 rounds isn’t really much of a test as there isn’t really much stress out on the lower. I’d like to see what happens to the pin holes after, say, 5,000 rounds. Have they loosened up any versus aluminum.
As for selling, as long as it’s not an SBR or Title 11 gun, just a plain old rifle (Title 1), ATF allows occasional sales IF you put a serial number or unique identifying number & letter combination on the gun. No, you do not have to be licensed AS LONG AS you are not engaged in the business. The generally accepted rule is one or two but don’t make a habit of it or you’ll draw attention and then they will call you a manufacturer.
i would like to know the prices of all the parts used.a;so i may have missed it but was the trigger part of the polimer80 kit
can this be used with a 100mm and /or 308 action if not do they a lower for them what are the prices and palces for all the parts
i would like to know the prices of all the parts used.a;so i may have missed it but was the trigger part of the polimer80 kit
I’d like to see a performance test over the long haul. 500 rounds isn’t really much of a test as there isn’t really much stress out on the lower. I’d like to see what happens to the pin holes after, say, 5,000 rounds. Have they loosened up any versus aluminum.
As for selling, as long as it’s not an SBR or Title 11 gun, just a plain old rifle (Title 1), ATF allows occasional sales IF you put a serial number or unique identifying number & letter combination on the gun. No, you do not have to be licensed AS LONG AS you are not engaged in the business. The generally accepted rule is one or two but don’t make a habit of it or you’ll draw attention and then they will call you a manufacturer. I believe the relevant section is: 27CFR 478.93 pg. 58 but it may be 27CFR 478.41 pg. 53
To the two previous posts:
Gentlemen,
If an individual makes a firearm to legally sell he must register the newly manufactured firearm via an ATF form 1, “make and register a firearm”. The only other legal way to make firearms for sale is to apply for and obtain a manufacturers license.
FYI
And to Mr. Tindal, sound suppressors. short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, destructive devices, even some forms of holsters and gun cases including a broad range of “any other weapon” require federal registration and the paid tax.
Mike,
I was just reading your comment regarding,forms of holsters and gun cases.I would like to know what types they are and what you are speaking of, in regards to ;
requiring federal registration and the paid tax, of such items.
More specific, gun cases,I have made my own custom break down shot gun cases and pistol carry cases.
I haven’t made them for sale, just for me,but it is some thing I might be interested in developing into a business?
Also, if I need to register and pay tax on them, or just flat out destroy them,due to legal implications.Which I am not interested in dealing with.
Where can I find such info?
Thx.
To the best of my understanding, the regulated cases refer to those that let a concealed gun be fired from inside them, so you shouldn’t have much to worry about.
I would like to know – start to finish for the entire thing. This part seem affordable and totally do able in aluminum and also in poly ( It does seem that in your description you are talking quite a bit like NOT getting the aluminum) I can see what you mean about it though. I mean, if your some dude in a trailer or a motel room, poly would be the way to go, this are the guys that are scarey. LOL I have a shop, never built a gun, but if we re talking about MFG parts, I’m the guy that can figure that out. However if the polymer is the same performance wise, seems slily to get the metal one, if the metal one is better, for the money or even more, I’d rather have the best if all it is is time and cursing that is the cost.
anyway. as I stated, I have never built a firearm. what I really wonder is how much it will cost me to complete the entire firearm. round about. I am sure there are many High dollar parts and higher dollar parts. but what about minimal required parts within reason that will be SAFE.
are all the clips for these the same or is there some special one for each lower you can make? that 200 buck registration thing that was posted by another poster, is that true?
Thanks even if you don’t reply at all. It would be helpful though. I cannot buy a firearm all at one time because of my wife. LOL but if I nickle and dime one together and she sees I’m building it myself. I’m freaking golden. ;O)
I had a woman like your wife who didn’t like my firearms. Even though carrying a firearm was always part of my profession, of which the rather well paid benefits kept her in the style she became quite ‘well’ accustomed to. In some typical religionist delusional psychosis, she thought that i already had TOO many guns and didn’t need any more! Never mind that i never begrudged her copious collection of shoes and clothes, most which sat patiently for months in her large walk-in closet, waiting to see the light of day.
One day when i brought home my first Barrett 50 BMG semi auto she noticed the price tag and went ballistic (not really ‘terminal ballistics’, but close enough). She advised me that if i bought one more firearm she was leaving!
I informed her very solemnly and sincerely that ‘I sure was going to miss her’.
Which proved the old adage that women are like beer and guns and dogs. There’s really no such thing as a bad one, but some are definitely better than others.
My next one turned out to be a hot young FBI agent and it was a truly ‘spiritual’ experience for me to hone and refine her rookie skills because of her insatiable appetite for learning about things that shoot by teaching her what the old military drill instructors always tried to ‘learn us in’. as ‘kid’ combatants back in the bad old days. The profound difference between ‘a rifle and a gun. And which is for firing, and which is for fun’.
Mike—This DIY stuff might not fit the bill for your needs.
1. It cost more than just going out and getting, let’s say a S&W M&P Sport 5.56 (currently $567.00 shipped)
2. It’s more for people that don’t want Feds, not wives, snooping in their business.
That being said, my wife is exactly like yours!
Here’s what I’ve been able to do successfully;
1. Find out what your wife really wants that is high dollar or equal to what your getting ready to buy.
Go buy her that item and make her real happy.
Then go purchase your new firearm or case of ammo.
For example; I bought my wife a big screen TV – This earned me a new AK 74 and a case of ammo
A new smart phone and a cool purse for my wife got me a VEPR Sniper rifle.
This takes all the steam out of them, and makes them realize this spending stuff goes both ways.
One more thing that I flew under the radar; Take $20. or less a week and stick it in your gun safe. That money will never be missed, but at the end of the year it amounts to a new firearm purchase (easily)—Make your purchase and stick that in your safe as well.
Husbands Law; –Wives don’t care and also don’t need to know about what’s in your safe.
This method will save you more money than the DIY
Muhjesbude’s method is harsh, but you do only have one life to live, and if compromising doesn’t work, then no nonsense will.
Russ, you’re a better man than me!
Ya, i kiss wife ass for sure.
How is something like this handled when the maker of the completed lower receiver dies / completed gun dies? Can it be willed to someone, and what must that someone do to avoid legal problems?
If you make a firearm for personal use then a serial number is not required but it cannot enter commerce. If you manufacture this AR15 type lower for use as an NFA firearm such as a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) then you must complete an ATF form 1 to make and register an NFA firearm before you attach the less then 16 inch barrel if it has a shoulder stock. Also since 1986 you cannot manufacture a machine gun unless your are a Class 2 manufacture and then can only manufacture a post 86 sales sample.
It was also seem incidentally easy to circumvent reg. & sale regulations by purchasing said kit, inviting your buddy over who happened to drop-off a keg or a new $500 golf-bag you need whilst he stays and “watches the house” for you as you expectantly have to make a run to the hardware shop (Bartering is not considered “entering commerce”).
Alternatively, you could just “gift” it to someone, as no funds would be exchanged this would be honored as perfectly legal.
Grace & Peace,
-Mitch
I like your way of thinking Mitch.
All that nit picky lawyer talk above was getting me sick.
I thought the whole concept of the DYI build was to NOT register or sell your AR type rifle.
Everybody’s taking about SBR’s and Title 11 guns and conflating that with manufacturing and general sales. Let’s all take a GIANT step back and just forget all that and simply take about a simple Title 1, semi-auto rifle constructed with an 80% lower that YOU have finished. If, at some point you decide you’re tired of it YES, you may put a unique identifying number on it WITHOUT a license from ATF and WITHOUT paying them a cent. You only fall under 27CFR if you are engaged in the business as a “for profit” principal business. The “occasional” seller does not fall into this category. See the following excerpt from 27 CFR:
“Individuals manufacturing sporting-type firearms for their own use need not hold Federal Firearms Licenses (FFLs). However, we suggest that the manufacturer at least identify the firearm with a serial number as a safeguard in the event that the firearm is lost or stolen. Also, the firearm should be identified as required in 27 CFR 478.92 if it is sold or otherwise lawfully transferred in the future.”
these are legal to finish and make for yourself. I don’t think you can do this for someone else or charge them to do it. This would constitute a manufacturer and need a tax stamp. Is this, perhaps, what he was speaking about?
“If you do want to sell a home brew firearm receiver, you will need to register it, which requires a $200 tax stamp registration, which is hardly worth the cost (unless you created one seriously unique masterpiece).”
What? This statement makes me question all of the information you presented.
For your information, per provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, an unlicensed individual may make a “firearm” as defined in the GCA for his own personal use, but not for sale or distribution.
Of course.
BUT there’s no need for a $200 tax stamp. The National Firearms Act regulates Short Barreled Rifles, Short Barreled Shotguns, Silencers and Any Other Weapons. These firearms require application, registration and a tax payment. $200 or $5. These are Title II firearms.
Title I “normal” firearms can be manufactured by anyone who is legal to own/possess the firearm and do not require a serial number. If you want to sell the gun you made at some point, it will need manufacturing information and a serial number. It has nothing to do with a “$200 atax Stamp”
Such bad information. Who edits these “articles”?
A fine point, that attorneys on both sides of the question could argue about (with little doubt about how the ATF would approach the situation, but not necessarily correctly), do the words “sale” and “distribution” (or whatever terms are actually used in the statute) refer strictly to commercial activity? Because Congress has legislative jurisdiction over interstate commerce, many firearms laws get their authority through the “commerce clause.”
A person who makes a personal firearm, and then later sells it (as he might any other article of personal property – just as he has a right to do) is not involved in a commercial activity (interstate or not), and has therefore not done anything to which the law is applicable. Because selling, transferring, or otherwise disposing of personal property in a lawful manner is a right, and because doing so is not a commercial activity (much less an exercise of interstate commerce), Congress doubly has no jurisdiction over the transfer.
I think it very likely that the statute doesn’t apply to non-commercial transfers of unregistered firearms simply because the authority of the statute is almost certainly derived from the “commerce clause,” and it is therefore inapplicable to a private transfer of personal property. However, a person who made enough lowers, and sold them regularly, could be deemed involved in a commercial activity (as many local jurisdictions allow households so many garage sales a year, before they’re considered “in business”), at which point the statute would become appropriate to the situation. I am sure you may be able to come up with instances in which the ATF prosecuted a person for making a private transfer of an unregistered, home-built firearm. But this does not make it appropriate, as the defendant’s attorney almost certainly did not raise the issue raised here. The court will permit an inappropriate prosecution unless the defense raises an objection. How many attorneys out there do you think would even think of raising this defense (and have the balls to do it)?
Very good observation. Unfortunately there’s a lot of law that is stained to purposely make judgments in a grey area just because of unforeseen circumstances that weren’t taken into account at the time the statute went into use. This is why you have wording like, ‘…but not limited to…” and any such similiar open ended legal phraseology. The 68 GCA is loaded with this approach and this is how BATF legislates gun control from their office headquarters and have to be sued to get back a favorable rights ruling.
On the commerce end, I think in this case it ‘depends’ on how much of a ‘living’ amount of money you are making on your occassional ‘private’ property transfer. Everybody realizes a free market capitalistic society provides abundant resource for ‘legal’ income for the willing entrepreneur. Unlike the poorer countries where barter would dominate the landscape. Here it has always been ‘cash and carry’ above all else.
But since we have this beast called Income Taxes stalking the mean streets of our working lives, there must be some sort of clearly delineated point where private property transfers meet a criteria of income to require a commerce sanction.
The government, of course, would enjoy an end to ALL private cash and carry transactions. There is an entire underground mega-industry in this, in anything from flea markets to internet malls. Ebay was a great place to get decent deal delivered right to your door without sales tax. States finally greeded up on the IRS bandwagon and made sale tax laws include internet sales.
But as all slippery slopes provide, the slide gets steeper. Louisiana recently supposedly sneaked in a private transaction law requireing receipts/documentation on all private sales! Again, put forth on the oxymoronic presumption of ‘public safety’! Of course the Farmers and flea market crowd went wild. I’ll have to check how that’s turning out.
the other side of the coin is that people, in the absence of money, have been constructing and making their own stuff, including any and all ‘tools’, which is all a firearm really is, as a function of their existentialism since Adam built a stool to reach that big juicy apple that Eve was lusting after. It is a fundamental cornerstone of our species. And it falls under the Absolute Laws of Natural Rights. We shouldn’t even have to be debating this and ‘worrying’ about what BATF thinks because they don’t have the right to control your basic Constitutional rights.
They do it because we let them get away with it. They do it because we LET them get away with it. Do that exercise three times a day.
We wouldn’t need to waste our thinking on this if it weren’t for the ’68 GCA that our good buddy Johnson gave us. Again for the lie of public Safety. There was no need for it but he simply didn’t like the ‘tone’ of the people against the war and government. So to protect his mighty military industrial complex regime, They had to effectively create a registry and regulation system to control the ‘arming-up’ potential of the American citizenry. AKA as some of you might remember it as ‘We, the People’, as in ‘of the people–by the people, and for the people’? And the rest is history–or rather tyranny.
After we teach this dysfunctional agenda based bunch of corrupt scoundrels in well paying legislative positions a lesson this coming election, we should simply push the envelope back in our own mailboxes and REPEAL THE ’68 GCA. And make it a crime of high treason to even attempt to subvert the Consitution with any peripheral mechanisms.
Otherwise, it will only get worse.
I don’t know the laws BUT…. in order to register you must apply for a serial number…and it seems to me that you are now the manufacturer of the firearm is there not a fee for being a manufacturer ????, Perhaps $ 200.00 ????
Let us explore all the facts before we judge our fellow man.
It does not require a $200 tax stamp to purchase or “register” an AR lower receiver. The tax stamp is needed for full auto guns only. Someone who is doing a review of a gun or part should know the laws before giving information.
Tom, a $200 tax stamp is required to register a newly built firearm. Same as if you build an SBR or SBS. Any complete lower you buy from the store is already registered. Maybe you should read the laws.
You would be completely incorrect. Totally.
If you want to build your own, and not sell it, you are fine. If you should decide to transfer that gun legally, you would have to have a manufacturer’s license (Like a gunsmith) which would require you have a registration with the US Government, in the form of a tax stamp. For a one time deal, it is not worth it, but if you make several of these a year, better get one. Same thing with distilling alcohol. Same regulators.
Incorrect. You may build 5 a yr. If you sell one it is highly recommended that you put a serial# on it and a couple lines of info IIRC where it was made and by who