Paradigm Shift noun UK /ˈpær.ə.daɪm ˌʃɪft/ US /ˈper.ə.daɪm ˌʃɪft/ formal – a time when the usual and accepted way of doing or thinking about something changes completely – Cambridge Dictionary
I need to start this review off by saying, I am no SIG fanboy. But facts are facts, and I always give credit when it is due. The new P365 is a game changer for concealed carry guns, and there are no two ways about that. I have seen and shot a lot of CCW guns in my day, and this one sets a new bar for excellence.
The new SIG Sauer P365 is a game changer for concealed carry guns.
As I write this, I am having trouble figuring out exactly why. On paper, the gun looks impressive, but not that far beyond its peers. It holds 10+1. Big deal. Other guns in this category hold 9+1, which isn’t that far off. It’s tiny. Well, so is a Glock 42. It has legitimate sights. That may be unusual, but it isn’t unique. The trigger breaks at 5.5 pounds, again not that far from the pack, if any. The difference is, the SIG P365 shoots like Wyatt Earp’s ghost is running the trigger, and I can’t tell you with certainty how that is possible. From just looking at the specs of the gun, it makes no sense. But this thing runs like a prairie fire fueled by a tornado. For the moment, let’s just attribute that to magic, which is as plausible an explanation as anything else.
The P365 is tiny. Here you can see what it looks like in the author’s hands.
Features
When I first saw this gun at SHOT Show, I liked what was on offer. At first glance, I would have called it a G-42 double stack, which would still be a pretty neat gun. The secret to SIG having a tiny profile, but managing to cram 10 rounds in the magazine, comes from its tapered design. The magazine is actually a pyramid, with a long taper up to the round that feeds out of the top. SIG could have gotten more capacity by going with a wider body, but they hit the sweet spot of grip size and bullets and stopped. Bravo. The result is that the SIG is 3mm wider than a Glock in the grip, and fits 4 more rounds.
The SIG, for me at least, also hits the grip circumference size where it is extremely comfortable to shoot. At the slide, the SIG is 1mm wider than the Glock, which also makes it nice to tuck in your pants.
The sights on the P365 are big enough to use.
The sights on the P365 are big enough to use, with a nice wide rear notch. The front features an oversized bright green ring, which is perfect for daylight use. They are actually hard to miss, at least if you are looking for them. When the lights go out, 3 tritium dots take over, and they are sufficiently bright for any night use as well. The rear sights have a shelf for one-handed manipulation, should the need arise.
The controls are very well laid out, and sized with thought put into them. I like oversized magazine releases on race guns, but not on ones I stick in my pants. The P365 has a magazine release that is almost recessed, you won’t drop a mag without trying. This makes reloads a little more difficult, but it does prevent accidental magazine release in the holster. I have had that happen with carry guns, and it would really suck to start a firefight with just the round in the chamber. Very nice design, I count the SIG work here as a positive. The slide release is exactly the balance needed of big enough to hit, but small enough not to inadvertently lock the slide.
The magazine release is designed for concealed carry. It’s recessed so that it’s not accidentally depressed on holstering, drawing, or during daily activities.
The trigger is the biggest mystery of the pistol. My trigger gauge says it breaks a 5.5 pounds. My finger says it is actually better than my P320X5, which before today was the gold standard in striker fired triggers. That doesn’t make sense, but it reflects in shooting as well. There is a small bit of takeup, then a clean break. The trigger geometry must include unicorn horns, or the SIG Engineers filled it with voodoo. I have no idea why, but the trigger feels a lot lighter than that when you shoot it. I was actually going to call them out for putting a 3 pound trigger in a carry gun before I gauged it. Whatever the reason, it makes the P365 run both extremely fast, and group very accurate.
Shooting the P365
Reliability wise, the P365 has that in spades too. I ran 500 rounds through the gun with no hiccups. And for most of that, I was also running my thumb on the side of the slide. It ate hollow points and ball, as fast as I could shoot them. I heard some rumors about reliability, so I actually took the P365 further than I needed to. I also fed it a box of Tula steel case, the worst ammo I have ever seen outside of the third world. The bangs might not have all sounded the same, but every round went off and ejected.
Recoil is extremely manageable in this gun as well. Using full power 9mm, I can barely tell the difference between the P365 and a full sized gun. That is also without explanation. If you watch my video, you will see the gun stays very flat throughout shooting. The grip has enough texture to help, but not enough to explain this alone. The recoil system is a dual spring design, but the slide feels no harder to manually rack than any other CCW gun. The bore axis is low, but not the lowest in class. That has the side benefit of not giving you slide bite as well.
Conclusion
I have long advocated using a CCW gun that is big enough to hang onto, and at first glance, this would not have fit the bill. But somehow, in use, it does. The gun points well, like an extension of your arm. The only odd part for me now is the draw, as I am looking for a tiny grip to lock up on. With training time, that will go away too. I never thought I would say this, but the P365 isn’t just a good carry gun. It is a good do anything gun. With the capacity on board and a potential of 12+1 with extended mags, there is no reason it can’t. This gun is literally good enough to run 6 plate racks or compete in IDPA, and still be your gas station carry piece. I have never seen a pistol more worthy of fitting the EVERYTHING GUN description.
Specs
- CALIBER: 9mm Luger
- ACTION TYPE: Semi-Auto
- FRAME SIZE: Micro-Compact
- GRIP TYPE: Polymer
- FRAME FINISH: Nitron
- FRAME MATERIAL: Stainless Steel
- SLIDE FINISH: Nitron
- SLIDE MATERIAL: Stainless Steel
- ACCESSORY RAIL: SIG Rail
- TRIGGER: Striker
- TRIGGER TYPE: Standard
- BARREL LENGTH: 3.1 in (78 mm)
- OVERALL LENGTH: 5.8 in (147 mm)
- OVERALL WIDTH: 1.0 in (26 mm)
- HEIGHT: 4.3 in (109 mm)
- WEIGHT: 17.8 oz (500 g)
- MSRP: $599
Learn more about the SIG Sauer P365 by clicking here.
***Check out GunsAmerica for your next SIG P365 pistol***
Holster Option For The P365
8 Mile
Let us not forget, a CCW gun is part of a system. The other parts of that system are holsters, magazines, and other daily carry items. Holsters can be a bear to find for a new gun, and we are always looking for the next great thing. With the P365 coming up, I made a discovery of excellent holsters that I can highly recommend. I put in a call to Detroit Holster, and I was very happy with the results. I opted to order two models, the 8 Mile, and the Dix.
The Detroit Holster 8 mile is an IWB holster, kydex, with a belt clip. The cant is optional for 15 degrees forward, 30 degrees forward, or straight up and down.
The Dix is a minimalist holster, that covers pretty much just the trigger guard. A loop of 550 secures the holster to your belt, and a simple pull frees your weapon.
Both showed attention to detail that is way above par, such as kydex wings to cover the mag release, keeping it from dropping free in your pants. It is apparent from examination and use, Detroit Holster is run by people that carry guns. Thought has gone into every detail, and the holsters are amazingly comfortable.
8 Mile and Dex.
The fit is perfect for the gun, a sign of excellent craftsmen. I am very surprised I haven’t heard of Detroit Holster before, and I thought about keeping this to myself to keep my wait times down. Whatever your carry gun, this shop is one you want to check out.
The holster partially covers the mag release to help prevent the mag from getting dropped during carry.
The front sight features an oversized bright green ring, which is perfect for daylight use.
The rear sights have a shelf for one-handed manipulation, should the need arise.
I’ve had one since march, have run over 1k through it and absolutely not one malfunction. I was suspicious of it, from the bashers, but it’s proven itself. Shoots so good. Only thing I disagree with, is Clays statement that the recoil is hardly noticeably harsher than the full or midsized guns. I certainly notice more barrel flip, but it’s very manageable. great little gun and great review.
Having several other Sigs. 938 & 238. Sp2022 9mm. Way to big to ccw. B ut a great weapon no less. Still on the fence. The 365 . 938 is a great shooter as is the 238. Rock some +p in the 238 & 938. Their hard to beat
And they are all metal. We ll see . I suppose it’s what you are use to.
I just shot 10 mags of my Federal ammo in a friend’s 6 month old P365.
There were failures to load, jams on cycling, plus moments with no issues.
I can only conclude that this article is another PR job by Guns America as it keeps sliding from any semblance of accurate reporting to total public relations, shameless marketing propaganda just like the Chinese Communist Party does.
I heard about all of these early problems, but I trusted Sig engineers to figure them out and correct the problems. I ordered a P365 from my LGS and then waited for months. When I first picked up and went to the range and every time since, I have never had a single failure even when deliberately limp wristing. I could not induce a failure. Your buddy must have gotten a real lemon and I hope one of you had sense enough to send it back to Sig.
Great video review. I’m most definitely going to explore the 365 further. Question for Clay. Did you happen to watch ‘No Country For Old Men’ recently? That Anton Chigurh ‘do is more of a don’t. 😉
I have put over a thousand rounds through my P365. It was hard to come by one for purchase but I finally
found one. Very happy with it. I had SR Holsters in Phoenix, Az. make me a leather, IWB holster which is very nice. Draws well and carries great for everyday.
Sig makes good products, so do a lot of other gun companies. It’s all a matter of what you learn to like and train with… Happy Holidays/Merry Christmas. A great article I might say thanks
Before I start, did ya’ll know you can reverse the mag release on the 365? Woks a lot better for me.
I’m a SIGFANBOY. I’ve been an NRA LEO instructor since 1990, a CCW instructor since 1996 and a State of Nevada PILB instructor for many years. I own a lot of pistols and shoot a lot of pistols.
I’m pretty sure all firearms instructors have their favorites and not so favorites Obviously there are a great many people who will denigrate the little 365 because they have their favorites.
Let me address a couple of issues;
I have 5 Sigs. Sigs don’t fail. They shoot and shoot and will digest any ammo that is functional.
I have 3 1911 Colt closet queens that Tussey firearms in Moundhouse Nevada have worked on. They just don’t have the reliability the Sigs have. FOR ME. Key words. Don’t wet your pants because someone maligned your 1911; I said for me.
Likewise I can’t shoot a Glock to save my life. Great gun, but not for me.
I think the .40 caliber round is silly. It kicks more than a 9 but is not as accurate and doesn’t have the stopping power of a 45. For me.
I wish I could tell you how many times I’ve had retired LEOs or CCW students step up to shoot and forget to take off their safeties. OOOPS! There are no “wait a minutes or do overs.” Negligent discharges are not caused by the gun, it’s the guy behind the trigger.
My everyday carry gun was a KelTec P32. Back before all the gun companies caught on, mouse guns were sneered at. Now they are all the rage. I would not carry even my P225 because it got too heavy at the end of the day and was hard to easily conceal. While not a fan of any other KelTec product, the P32 always fired and would deliver golf ball sized groups at 7 yards( read head shots.)
So after about 60 years of shooting experience, 28 of that as a certified range master, I certainly have my favorite semi-autos.
You’ve read all the comments, pro can con. But I think Clay has it right. There is something about this gun that he describes as magic or voodoo. Yup. Easy to carry, extremely accurate, low felt recoil, , great trigger, reliable, ergonomically superb, 11 rounds of 9mm …. but that still doesn’t totally describe why this gun is so great. I no longer have to carry a mouse gun and a full sized combat/range gun.
I just bought my second one.
I agree with your comment, and also have both the Keltec P-32 ( ya gotta own one to know why, right?) and the new P365 which I got online for $498. Straight out of the box using Winchester white box was problematic. I gave it a good cleaning and lube (it loves to be lubed), it from that point shot everything flawlessly. Love it more and more now!
I love my P365. I own over 30 handguns and lot of them are small enough for carry. I recently took the P365 to range with a couple other current favs, and shot it side by side with my custom Glock 43 and Kimber Micor 9. The Glock has the agency flat trigger and several other mods. The P365 blew them both away hands down in every category. I’m not overall a “Sig” guy either it’s just a killer gun. I have a Sig AR as well no other Sig pistols currently.
Nice, but I’ll stay will stay with my H&K VP9SK
No safety = no buy !
Since you’re talking competence and experience you should show us your DD214. Ball’s in your court hero.
STFU Shitbird.
Prefer my Glock 33.
Just traded my Glock 33 (1st Gen) for a P365. With a custom kydex IWB holster, I forget that I am even wearing it. Plus 9mm is much cheaper than .357 sig.
How about some comments on the sig 938.how much better is the 365.I’ve not had any problems with my 938 but I never see any info on other people’s thoughts.
I carry both, and I shoot both a lot. When I am in the mood for a few extra bullets and a DA trigger I carry the P365, when I am in the mood to Cary a single stack mini 1911 I prefer the 938 over my Kimber.
The reviews I have seen on You Tube and read are not flattering. P365 has problems. Unless SIG has fixed the issues this gun has, I am keeping my Glock 43 handy.
Ok Joe my interest is peaked how about a P365 and a Sccy CPX-2 shoot out?
The P365 isnt such a revolutionary gun, in fact there is a lighter gun, same physical size, same capacity, lifetime unconditional transferable warranty and no catastrophic failures like the P365, totally clean right side (no safety lever) so you can use a clipdraw universal clip (if you want to talk minimalist holster) oh, and did I mention you can buy three (3) of them for the price of this P365. It is DAO, which IMO is the best trigger for EDC, its like a high capacity revolver. Its the Sccy CPX-2. And if anyone thinks otherwise they either have money to burn, or they are Sig groupies.
It also easily carries 10+1 in the chamber like I have been doing since the day I bought it nearly 3 years ago, have never had a failure to feed o fire and could write a book about some of the things I have heard they have done to honor their lifetime guarantee! Recently I talked to a man whose father’s trailer burned down, his CPX-2 burned, but apparently the barrel and slide weren’t damaged, at least in his opinion, he sent them a letter asking if he could buy a new frame telling them what happened, they told him to send the “remains” back to them and they supplied him with an completely NEW weapon….FREE of Charge!
I own both guns, and in my opinion they are worlds apart. Comparing a P365 and a CPX 2 is like compairing a Yugo to a MiniCooper. They are both small, and they both shoot, but the P365 is just a better mort comfortable platform
Your kidding , right, comparing the sig to the cpx-2, impossible.
notice the time on the clock on the wall for the first and third segment…..thats all I’m saying……………..
Why is Sig acting like they invented the compact double stack 10+1 9mm ? KelTec and SCCY have had them on the market for 20 years already.
Sig has been great to any customer who had an issue with there 365. They even stopped production for 30 days to get everything working correctly. Why I laugh is most folks who carry put maybe a couple hundred rounds thru weapon and carry it. Folks have been putting rounds thru this 365 to try and make it fail and they run out of ammo. This P365 is the best edc you can buy and when you shoot it you will not believe how accurate it is.
what about the price of the 365 mags!?
Well I waited until the proverbial dust died down to grab a P365. While I’ve read about a number of issues for the P365, I must have just gotten lucky as mine runs like a top without any of the known issues. No discernible firing pin drag marks, no broken firing spring (at least not in the first 2,000 rounds), no FTF’s or FTE’s. Of course, with Murphy’s law, now that I’ve put that in print, my 365 will blow apart on the next range trip. I feel comfortable enough with mine to make it my primary EDC gun. I’m an old school leather guy so I carry it in a Don Hume WCS IWB holster (got it from here: http://www.gunnersalley.com/sig-p365-holster/ for cheap). Let’s hope I didn’t just hex myself.
I have seen reviews where the firing pin drags across the primer. This results in the firing pin tip breaking off. An extended review (1k rounds) had the trigger connector breaking. Looks like an awesome gun when those two issues are addressed.
Thorough and unbiased review, but you’re going to have to admit to being a Sig fan from here forward.
I hope the pistol is everything you’ve made it out to be, could be my next quest. Thanks!
The author lost me at the comment of :
“I’m no Sig fanboy”
That sends up so many warning flags about one’s competence or experience in evaluating handguns… Or any firearm for that matter…
But, on a positive note, such a forthright announcement of one’s lack of experience and/ or critical reasoning ability, saves me from wasting any more time reading said authors evaluation…
Much appreciated!
Yet you had time to write a comment…just saying.
Ouch! Lol.
Educated beyond your capacity. Just sayin’.
Impressive little 9mm! I’ve got a P238 and it’s an outstanding carry gun, albiet .380. This looks to be about the same size, but in 9mm. I’d love to see it side by side with a P238.
Great video and review. I especially liked hearing the echoes! 😁
Have you not seen the P938? It is the 9mm version of the P238. I have both and used to carry one of them any time I left the house. Now, I carry a P365 because it’s about the same size but it holds 10+1 and I don’t have to worry about clicking off a safety in a firefight.
Guess this was all smoke and mirrors have orders one at the same time as the shot show. maybe when mine shows up it will run ok!
I’ve had a p365 on order since the shot show my FFL says none of their Distributors have even had one. I guess this gun was released before it was done!!!!!
As for holsters, take a look at Dale Fricke Holsters…imho…they are hands down the best CCW holster gear available. Nice review on the P365.
The first “gen” if you will, had a problem with the barrel not letting it go into battery sometimes and the Sig sites were failing. The second gen has the X-ray grn front site. I had a chance to use both versions with a Sig rep and this gun is absolutely amazing. I have or had most of the guns tat some folks are trying to compare it to and it’s not even close. It is a Glock 43 in size with a teeny bit wider grip because it holds ten rounds instead of six. The reason it is thinner than other ten rounds guns is the way the magstacks them. I got to use all tree mags, the ten flat, ten w/pinky ext, and the twelver. The trigger has a lite / smooth pull and the reset is very short. This gun is absolutely a game changer for ccw.
To all of you naysayers if you can find a P365 anywhere, and I doubt you can ,pick it up feel how well it fits the hand, try the trigger. I had the good fortune of buying one last week and can say without hesitation its by far the best micro 9mm handgun I have ever owned. Easy to carry, fun to shoot and that’s not something you can say about some of the other micro 9/s, and extremely accurate for a gun of its size or any size as a matter of fact. I just love people who berate guns they have never seen in person or shot. Must be great to be “all knowing”
I like Sigs, I have two 320s. I haven’t seen the 365 up close yet but it doesn’t appear to much of an advantage over the 320 sub-compact. The 320’s grip may a bit larger but that’s a plus for guys with big mitts like me. Plus my 320sc holds 12 right out of the box and with a little spacer holds my 15 round mags too. Looks more like a chick gun to me.
Got a 320 and a 365. Both great guns. I will outshoot your ass with my chick gun.
I’m all for everyone having their own opinions, but maybe you should wait until have or at least shot the gun. I almost fell of the couch when someone was bragging about the Taurus PT millennium whatever it is and the Sig 250 and 290. A bunch of horrible shooting guns, most likely not even in the same class as the 365. If the G43 would have came out with 10 round magazines, it would have been the single greatest carry gun ever designed. Just saying.
Yes, and not really saying it very well. Is English your second language?
On top of the Sigs I own, I happen to have a PT111. Got a good price on it and thought it would be a cheap glove box gun. As it turns out it is a great gun. Have shot close to a thousand rounds through it without a hiccup. Never would have thought. Lots of great reviews for the PT111.
I am curious why you are reviewing a 9mm gun and repeatedly compare it to a .380?
I see G42 mentioned multiple times, this doesn’t make much sense to compare apples to grapes.
whats the deal with “best trigger out there”. When the you know what hits the fan, you’re not thinking about the trigger, just stopping the threat. Now if I was shooting paper, yes trigger is important. I hope Sig gets this pistol right.
My friend and I pre-paid for this pistol at our local Scheel’s. About a month later they got the first four guns in. I got #2 and he got #3. After about 600 rounds—and zero failures—I can tell you Sig got it right.
All you have there is a sub-compact CZ-75 or a steel sub-compact EAA Witness without an external safety. Been waiting 25 years for conventional wisdom to catch up with common sense.
What? Yeah, this striker fired 365 really compares to a CZ75 or EAA Witness, subcompact or otherwise. The only thing they have in common is the caliber.
Give me a break already! This new Sight is a day late and maybe 10 too late. I have a Taurus PT-111 Millennium Pro in 9mm and it holds 12+1! It’s just as small and compact plus it is double/single action and it has an external thumb safety. Plus the cost is less that $300.00 on the street.
Oh wait, you’re serious. Let me laugh even harder.
The Taurus you listed is fatter, longer, and taller than the P365. The 365 has the option for a 12 round mag, or a flush fit 10, and it’s made by a competent company in the United States, not in a favela in Brazil.
I have the Sig 938 for carry. A Taurus pt111 for my leave in the truck gun. You can’t compare a Taurus to a Sig.
How much did you get paid for such a glowing review.I shot it it’s nice. Mine did fail to go into battery once in the first 50 rounds.
As for steel case ammo it’s totally unreliable. Every 5 rounds a lite strike.
The size and capacity will sell it once Sig works out the bugs.
You’re questioning Clay’s integrity because he had a better experience than you did?
Where is the video of your experience? Clay filmed his.
Love my P320 compacts( a 9 & a .45) but got a P938 for c.c just before the 365 came out. The more I see/read about the 365, I might have to see about trading in the 938.
I really love my 938. It was pricey but it’s a great and accurate little gun.
Dave; IF, big IF, I’d keep the 938, I am seriously considering getting some trigger work done on it. That 8+lb. trigger is kinda stiff for me.
Height is The Key. To be honest I was looking for a short in height double stack 40, and really could not find anything. So I took a Taurus pt40 gen 2 that I had broke in and knew it would run just fine. I cut some of the handle or grip if that is what you call it. Then cut some off the mad and added a new mag plate that has to be removed with 2 small screws. Ended up with a 1.75 finger handle, and a height of 4.3 inches. Cheap and really easy to carry. Good review. Dave
Hello Dave, and others who may hold interest,
I believe the pistol for which you are searching is called the HK P2000 SK .40 caliber. It holds 9 rounds of .40 cal in the SK magazine, plus it works with the full size P2000 .40 cal mags, which hold 12 rounds. The P2000 is a much older model than the P30 series from HK. Overall, though, the P2000, which includes the full size and SK model, is more compact than comparable models in the P30. Like the P30, and unlike the VP series, the P2000 series is a DA/SA hammer-fired system. A notable plus of the P2000 is that it is available in 9 mm AND .40 caliber, as opposed to the P30 series, which is only available (as far as I know) in 9 mm. Be aware that the P2000 SK, while slightly smaller than the P30 SK, and/or VP9 SK (by the way), is still significantly larger and heavier than the Sig P365. Call it what you will. Some of us may still see the potential benefit to the larger/heavier .40 cal with only 9 rounds vs. much smaller and lighter 9 mm with 10 to 12 rounds. (Yes, the P365 loaded with the 12 round 9 mm mag is still smaller than the P2000 SK loaded with the 9 round .40 mag). Also note, and take of this what you will: I have shot the HK P2000 SK .40 cal and the Sig P365 9 mm side by side at the range, and to me, at least, the P365 does shoot flatter, with lower felt recoil (keep in mind that this is range ammo, so 150-165 gr .40 cal in the HK, vs. probably 115-125 gr 9 mm in the Sig).
Expect to pay, even in this day and age, close to $700.00 for a new HK P2000 series pistol. So far, so good though. No feed, fire, or eject issues after about 600 rounds of various .40 cal ammo thus far.
Doesn’t matter to me, I live in california. As it does not have microstamping….its ‘unsafe’ /sarc
Why don’t we just cut to the chase? I read all the previous comments but here is the summary that is being missed. The truly small and concealable 9mm’s all are 6-8 round type guns. If you wanted 10 or more rounds you end up with a Glock 26….a chunky little beast if there ever was one. Thick. Another point for concealability and “printng” on your body ( especially if you are a small/slender/short person), is grip height, besides width (length often doesn’t play out as a problem).. This is where the excellent Shield loses. Too tall. So…it can be sumarized this way. The Sig P365 is a game changer in that it has length x width x height dimensions very comparable to small single stack 9’s, even some .380’s…..yet has the capacity of chunkier 9mm guns like the 26. Plus, ….grip height is rather short too. No one (yet) has a comparable 9mm model, but I will predict others will bring out something similar due to the new niche this gun has created.
I believe the “doublestack G-42” comment should have said “G-43”. It had me thinking the review for a doublestack .380 until the mention of “full power 9mm” ammo.
HK P30 SK is puts it to shame on paper and near the same cost.
The H&K is longer, higher, wider, and heavier….but, yeah, it holds the same number of rounds. I’m sure the H&K is a good pistol (I’ve had my fair share of their products and they’re top-quality). The P365 is without peer when you combine size and firepower.
Obvious that you haven’t fired the P365 as it’s accuracy is surprisingly dead on when shot by someone that’s competent with pistols. The NRA accuracy test was by far the best I’ve seen for any pistol near its size. I have run over 1,000 rounds through mine and find the reliability perfect so far and accuracy very surprising for such a small hand gun.
It’s sad to read so many so called comparisons that aren’t even close to size or caliber.
The biggest “wonder” about the 365 is we wonder when they are going to make enough of them to go around. This long after the release and many of thd major wholesale distributors haven’t gotten any from Sig yet. We also wonder why Sig would create an opportunity for their loyal customer base to be subjected to price gouging on the fee that are trickling into the market place from unknown sources. Very disappointing of Sig.
Sig has stopped distribution, according to a manager at Fin, Feather, Fur due to a known reliability issue. There won’t be any for a while yet.
When you get into this super compact category, it seems like it is the top of the tier in the science it takes to make them – trouble in manufacturing is almost a given. I have a Springfield Armory XD-S that got a recall soon after release. I really like this snubby little CC pistol! It has unbelievable control for such a small .45 cal. I have had more trouble shooting a full sized and weight 1911A1!!
I was at the factory store a few weeks ago and had the chance to handle the P365. Very nice feel. I love my P938 and carry it daily. The only drawback to the 365 is no safety. I foresee a few graphic photos of racing stripes down legs from accidental discharge. It is only about 1/4 inch longer than the 938 and I hear there will be a safety on the next revision. I love every SIG that I have ever owned or shot.
Don’t put your finger on the trigger until your ready to shoot it. There are an awful lot of Glocks etc out there that don’t have accidental discharges unless the holder blows the training. “Safeties” don’t make a firearm idiot proof and are a darn nuisance in a hurry. Glock was issued to an awful lot of law enforcement personnel and very few issues arose form not having a “safety”. It’s in quotes because they aren’t. Learn how to operate your equipment safely and you won’t need a mechanical gimmick.
The problem is it’s hard to train for the way ones body will react in a high stress situation. That’s when a relatively light trigger pull on a weapon lacking an external safety can be a problem. At the range, the safety rules are easy to follow.
Amen to that!
Yeah yeah yeah, and then go watch the videos of people who had NDs when their keys, or a flap on an old holster (cost the guy his life), or a pull cord on a windbreaker get into the trigger guard and fire the gun quite unintentionally. Safeties, whether manual or grip, DAO triggers, etc solve these problems. Glock even makes a version of its guns (not for import) with manual safeties. Safeties have been on pistols for over a century, which to me is long past the “gimmick” stage, especially for people not as “operator” as you. They might just prevent a kid from shooting himself or someone else–unlike that cop who left his Glock in the back seat and his three year-old picked it up and shot Daddy in the back, paralyzing him. (I seem to recall that he obtained a substantial jury award after suing Glock for its failure to have a safety.)
if it had a manual safety I wouldn’t be buying it, a gun intended for CCW shouldn’t have one
Friends don’t let friends carry striker fired pistols. I’ll stick with my P229, P250, and P290.
Amen to that brother. Quiet as kept the P250sc is probably the best polymer gun Sig has made hands down. Hammer fired, interchangeability in grip modules and durable.
Friends with that attitude aren’t very bright friends.
My HK VP 40 is every bit as reliable, dependable, safe and accurate as ANY SIG or other maker hammer or striker pistol.
So is my S&W, and the 5 different Glocks I’ve owned.
Most striker pistols by well known makers are, across the board.
To say otherwise demonstrates a lack of acknowledgment of their history & mechanics, and quite frankly, carries a silly and foolish notion of old fashioned hard headedness.
But hey, that’s your loss.
To be clear, I like Clay and read and respect his reviews and, to be honest, have generally quit reading the reviews of others as they always seem to be a glowing thumbs up with [what appears to be] a deal that the manufacturer will let the reviewer keep the gun in exchange. (tell me this isn’t so!)
I’m hoping that Clay never compromises his integrity that way. It adds validity when the review includes some honest “gigs” as we all know that no gun is perfect. I respect a reviewer that is candid, impartial and honest.
Don’t let us down Clay. Good experienced gun reviewers are a dying breed.
Semper Fi
I happened upon a Kahr PM9 10 years ago when I acquired my concealed carry license. After shooting hundreds of rounds I remained totally convinced this pistol is 100 % reliable and will defend my life if needed. With the introduction of each new subcompact 9mm I await the gun I think will surpass the Kahr. S&W Shield, Glock 43, Sig 365 ? Each has it’s supporters. Each has features you like or do not. If a conccealed carry weapon is to protect your life, it must be concealable, provide adequate firepower and be TOTALLY RELIABLE. Statistically, a usual gunfight occurs within 3 yds, 3 seconds with 3 shots fired. In that brief period of time, everything has to work perfectly for you to survive. The Kahr has proven it’s reliability, It is compact and ergonomic with. a 6+1 or 7+1 capacity,. When you pick it up or disassemble for cleaning it exudes quality. The Sig 365 may be a major player in the future, but reading the current reviews, I would not depend on this gun to save my life.
The PM is a premium pistol with a premium price. I have a CW9, same trigger, 7+1, less fancy mill work and only one mag in the box, under $400 (even less than that since I’ve bought it). But mine has also been remarkably reliable, even through Kahr’s recommended 200 round break-in period. With a HandAll Jr. from Hogue, the gun fits my hand very well and comfortably. It takes some time to get used to the DOA trigger, but I rather like it, except for the slow rate of fire (for me). Recoil is sharp but controllable, even though the gun is only 16 oz with a 3.5″ barrel. The things I don’t like about it are that the break is really far back, and thus repeat shots are quite slow, and the slide release that has a sharp corner right where I put my thumb. Mine has been my EDC for 3 years now.
I also have carried a PM9 for years. Its accuracy, size and quality are tops. I like to try new things too, and have each of the pistols you mentioned (Shield, G43, also the G42). None of them took the PM9’s place, although I like to shoot them. But, TRY the P365…..I was lucky enough to snag one. There has been so much comparison in size to the Glock 43, but the real comparison is to the PM9. When I first shot one (a rental gun at my range), I had the PM9 in a Nemesis holster in my pocket. Not only did it shoot like a dream, it fit perfectly in my pocket holster, and in my pocket. It is almost identical in size to the PM9. Adding the additional 4 rounds to the PM9’s capacity is amazing. I have about 500 rounds through mine so far, with no problems. Hasn’t replaced the PM9 yet in my pocket, but in time I think it will.
I carried the P226 for many years during my military career, It was and still is a fantastic service pistol. The problem of late is; Sig puts out new guns like Kimber. Does not surprise me as Ron Cohen the Sig CEO came from there. This rush to market has had a negative effect on their reputation, hell, they have more flavors than all the ice cream companies combined. The 938, the P320, the list goes on(I can say that with authority because I worked for them(Sig). As a retired Tier 1 professional, I don’t need more than 9 rounds to get the job done in the majority of cases so capacity is not an issue, shoot, move, reload, yes I said reload(if you need more rounds) I have EDC’D many fine pistols, most, too big and heavy, some crazy small(like the new Sig365). My personal choice is the S&W Shield Performance center pistol with one extra mag. Small, accurate, outstanding sights, never had ANY malfunctions of any kind(I train with the Shield once a week 50 rounds) running all manner of high performance 9mm ammunition. It’s a lot less expensive, proven reliability and no surprises after being in the market a year or so. Can’t say that about the P320. The industry as a whole has a problem of bringing firearms to market without adequate testing and evaluation at the factory level.
The Shield is massively more popular around here than the Ruger LC9, and a lot of that has to do with the trigger, a trigger that they keep improving. It also usually goes for a price premium over the Ruger, although they are direct competitors. I wonder what the street price of the 365 will be after the new gun buying surge passes in about a year. It is priced at a significant premium over most of the competition.
Excellent review.
I passed on the P365 because of SIG holding back releasing any more until a barrel peening issue was researched and addressed.
I also evaluated a P320 and P938 but passed on those because of what I read about the triggers.
I love my P238 but reviewers said do not expect that trigger with a P938.
After reading a P320 vs Walther PPQ M2 review, I went with the Walther PPQ M2, .40 S&W, 5inch.
Now to my point, the P365’s trigger appears to be similar to the PPQ’s trigger.
I never expected to feel a trigger like that on a striker.
It started about 5lbs 4oz, before firing, now it’s about 4lbs 14oz using a RCBS, spring trigger gauge.
You are correct, albeit mine is a range gun, that trigger is going to take some training.
Squooshy Glock triggers I trained with until I learned to hate them and to swear to never to buy another striker.
S&W M&P reviews had me try a Performance Center, .40 C.O.R.E. version, which I enjoy.
The S&W Shield, .45 Performance Center is wonderful.
All that B.S. leads up to say I do not know if I could carry with a trigger as good as the PPQ and P365 triggers are.
It’s about the right poundage but somebody done away with the wall.
After you take up the pre-travel, you may just get a surprise while looking for the wall; talk about a no creep, crisp release.
After 100 rds at the range I was getting into loving it but started thinking about it on the way home.
But man, you cannot beat that trigger with a stick!
Unfortunately, the PPQ trigger has grooves like my G27 trigger did.
They ain’t dere no more because I noticed my G24 was smooth and it was swappable with my G27.
APEX triggers got no stinkin’ groves, but I’m still researching that because it is a flat trigger.
Popping that falling target was a kick to watch!
With regard,
Matt
You are right about the trigger on the P938. It’s the worst 1911 style trigger I’ve ever experienced. That being said, it’s my primary carry because of it’s size. The P365 is just another in a line of vapor ware pistols that are prematurely introduced. It may wind up being a great gun, but, when you have to go back to the drawing board this early, it’s not a good sign.
Love the P938 except for the cheap plastic trigger, replaced mine with a new Apex trigger, problem solved, not the greatest trigger in the world but pretty good considering all the pluses going for it, it’s my summer EDC.
So Clay starts off by stating that he NOT a Sig FANBOY right? However, about half way thru the article he state this: ” …My finger says it is actually better than my P320X5, which before today was the gold standard in striker fired triggers…” Well if you do a quick search of the P320X5 it is a Sig Pistol… Okay Clay, so if you’re not a FABOY of SIG then Guns America isn’t about Guns 😛
By the way the ARMY is getting Screwed by Sig right now (it’s only be issued to ONE UNIT) and there are way too many problems! I’m not saying all Sigs suck but I know I would never buy one after seeing the problems the Army is having.
Also, I don’t understand why people MOCK Steel Case Ammo? Russians do 2 things very well, one is making Vodka and the other is Weapon Systems exclusively using Steel Case Ammo! Steel Case is GOOD AMMO or HORNADY never would have made “Steel Match” Ammo. https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/steel-match#!/ Just Saying…
if you watch a lot of GunsAmerica videos, Clayis quite clearly a GLOCK fanboy if anything.
He was referring to a specific steel case ammo, not condemning *all* steel case ammo. Relax.
I wanted to look at one of these and went to my local Fin, Feather, Fur and was told they didn’t have any in stock due to Sig stopping shipments due to a known feed reliability issue, and they had no known future shipment date, either. Bought an HK VP9 SK instead and am very happy with it, shoots reliably with range and duty ammo, and is VERY accurate. Yes it’s just a tad bigger and heavier than a Sig, but the HK checks all the boxes for me, including the availability of 15 round mags.
That HK is just one sweet, overbuilt machine. Built to shoot
Clay you’re the coolest firearms review dude going on the net–but I think it’s time to step back from the honey hole–you’re putting on the weight from too many Hodgdon pizzas topped with “what dat” magic manufacturer’s fairie dust. ; )
Yeah, he could also use a haircut and a shave.
After to debacle Sig gave us with the P938, I don’t trust them anymore.
You mean the debacle with the 320, don’t you? Oh, that too.
So then, what make car do you drive?
Same thing, not a single car maker hasn’t had issues, with safety, reliability or whatever.
Everyone makes a lemon if they are at all cutting edge, it’s a fact of humanity.
So, to decry an entire company because of one particular product is just short of foolish.
For example the very SIG that made me a NON fan boy of SIG is the P226.
It feels clunky and terrible to me, BUT!, it IS a well made highly regarded and reliable weapon.
Sooo…., I don’t like it, but I don’t diss the whole SIG line for it.
BTW, based on your assessment, you shouldn’t like , Colts, Glocks (yes, Glocks, I was around when they were first introduced, when the mag wouldn’t fall free and some recoil rods broke), Remingtons, Winchesters, Marlins, S&W and on and on.
Looks like a nice carry pistol.
Think I’ll stay with my SCCY CPX-1 with the same 10 +1 capacity, caliber, and performs just as well for 1/3rd the price.
The SCCY is a real sleeper. Have shot several. CPX 2 is my favorite and can’t beat the price.
I have a cpx 2 and I need to add that not only is it thinner than most others of the breed, it is also a “hammer” gun that offers unlimited re-strike it also will have more effective barrel length/ per size. Also very accurate, totally reliable, and again 1/3 the price.
My LC9s Pro has a 9 round mag, great trigger and shoots very well for about half the price.
I second the LC9S. Best shooting small 9 I have found. Had sigs and didn’t like the way they set up there sights.
Agree … if looking for a truly-pocketable but shootable 9mm, might consider the LC9s. Like Goldilocks, I find the LC9s “just right” in size and shootability for pocket carry. Transitioned from an LC.380 (difficult hammer-trigger), moved Crimson Trace laser over to the LC9s, and I like the new, striker-trigger. Did not go with the LC9s pro as I feel a striker-fired pocket pistol should have either a safety or at least a grip safety … for my safety.
Have had mine for over 2 weeks now. It’s all he says and more! No issues with any ammo. Small, yet feels much bigger. This is my EVERY DAY carry now! There is no comparison
Great review. I don’t care what that other guy said……please don’t comb your hair.
I drove over 85 miles one way to get a P365 and I love it I was never a big Sig guy untell now.And yes it is a lot smaller then the pics show but its what I needed for my pocket it fits the bill for what I needed it to do………..Its the best Carry Gun I have ever owned……
Nice little gun… with an emphasis on little. I’m with Mark N. — 9mm guns this small are quite a handful. I’d rather see it in .380, or even 9x18Makarov. It’s a bit small for 9×18. Definitely wouldn’t put +Ps in it! Might handle it fine, but the person holding it might not handle it as well!
How does the Sig compare to the G26? I know the G26 is slightly wider and has a slightly longer barrel. But in terms of shooting side by side, is that something you’d be able to do, Clay?
Thanks for the review.
Not impressed I have a PT111 pro compact, and at $200.00 it does the job and does it well. No longer in interested in paying for “names” Did that in the past…….
I think you intended to compare this with a Glock 43, not a Glock 42. The 43 is the 9mm, otherwise, why compare a 9mm with a 380?
What about all the failures to go into battery? More then one person is having issues with the P365 and that will get you killed, especially after the first round. Based on Sig’s response to the P320 not “drop safe” issue, I think I pass on Sig’s and get a G43 and I am not a Glock fanboy. Not because I don’t like the P365, it’s because I don’t trust Sig anymore.
I don’t know…..hyperbole aside, Clay seems to be a big fan of more and more things these days. Either I’m becoming more discriminating, or……. That’s why the only thing I use reviews for is a starting place for MY review. He has a lot more experience than I do and I’ll tip the hat there, but blanket “I love these” are just becoming to common. It’s as if he has lost his discretion. MAYBE IT IS THAT GOOD. I’ll see.
I was going to post the same thing. I’m too busy to go back and check, but I’m pretty sure Clay starts out other Sig reviews with, “I’m no Sig fan boy, but…” and then we read about a great firearm. With as many positive reviews on Sigs as he gives, I can’t imagine why he wouldn’t be a fan boy.
Very comprehensive review, and so glowing that it made me start questioning my previous purchases! Tiny footprint, but shoots like a range gun, single stack with double stack capacity, best striker fired trigger,
For me Sig seems to have a little something extra in all their guns at least the 226, 229, 716, & P238 that I own, when buying a pistol for my wife I put just about every typical mid size semi auto in her hand and had her shoot them, and then I put a 229 in her hand and that was it, she said it just felt far superior than any of the Glocks, Springfield Armory etc…, and the the best part is that she runs that .40 like a pro, maybe the ghost of Wyatt Earp doesn’t discriminate between men and women.
I liked this gun a lot when I first read about it. I am rather surprised, seeing it with a scale (Clay’s hand) how tiny it really is. The trigger appears entirely awesome, although I think I might not want to shoot a lot without the pinky finger extension. From my own experience (Kahr CW9), micro 9s are something of a handful at first.
You do realize Clay’s hand is the size of a catcher’s mitt, right?