Noreen BN36 Long Range Assassin -$1,999.99
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The Noreen BN36 Long Range Assassin is a .30-06 semi-auto in an AR-15 platform. It takes a standard drop in trigger, and the guts are interchangeable with other ARs, but otherwise this is a custom built rifle, and a tack driver, at $1999.99.
Several years ago I happened upon a rifle that blew me away. It was at Media Day at the Range, which is the day before our annual SHOT Show in Las Vegas, and I have to say, it takes a lot to blow me away. That rifle was the Noreen Arms BN36 Long Range Assassin, which you will recognize as an AR-15 pattern, in .30-06. I have always been a huge fan of that cartridge, and I always wondered if the rifle ran as well as my M1 Garands. This week I finally got a chance to put the Noreen to the test, ad I love it!
Noreen sells the guns mostly direct to consumer, and I have seen very few come up on the used market, because people keep them. The BN36 Long Range Assassin that you see here in the video is $1,999.99, and there are carbine versions for several hundred less. Available calibers are 30-06 Springfield, 270 Winchester, 25-06 Remington, 300 Winchester Mag, and 7mm Remington Mag. The magazines are proprietary, and the gun comes with one. Extra magazines are $86 and up, depending on the caliber.
It has a big heavy custom made bolt, and the gun is side charging, without any silly cocking ears.
The BN36 may seem like a niche product, as compared to a “regular” .308/7.62 NATO AR-15 pattern, but it is not. What most people don’t know is that all ARs that don’t take a regular .223/5.56 magazine are proprietary. These days there is at least a standard .308 magazine, but that is only a recent development when Armalite, the inventor of the original AR-10 in .308, decided to adopt the PMAG.
Many writers, even writers here at GunsAmerica, mistakenly call .308 AR-15s an AR-10, as if there were some milspec standard for that gun, but there is not. The AR-10 is a registered Armalite trademark to this day, and there has never been a “milspec” AR-15 configuration in .308. The Ruger 7.62 is no more “standard” than a DPMS or an Armalite or this Noreen. It just so happens that the Noreen is in a less popular, but far more classy caliber than any of those other guns.
The mags for the BN36 is proprietary, made for Noreen, and they have mags that fit all of the calibers that they offer. But other than the fact that the Noreen doesn’t take PMAGs, it is no more proprietary than any other AR that is not 2.23/5.55 milspec direct impingement. There is no other AR style rifle that is milspec, and that goes for all .308 ARs. They are all 100% proprietary designs outside of the magazine catch and well.
The Noreen BN36 is what happens when true gun nerds get an idea, and set out to build the very best rifle they can build. The difference on the Noreen is that they have managed to keep the price down, on what is a 100% custom machined firearm. When I first saw this gun, probably 2013, I said whoa that’s nifty, but I didn’t expect that they would be around very long.
At the time I didn’t know that Peter Noreen, the founder of the company (and the guy who wouldn’t give me the time of day at SHOT back then lol), was already a world recognized gunsmith. He apparently became known for building up caliber Model 70s for dangerous game, and by 2007 was building rifles from scratch for the long range competition market. I haven’t yet seen their .338 Bad News rifle, but hopefully we’ll get to that at some point.
Cold bore I was able to shoot factory ammo into sub-MOA consistently. After the gun heated up I’d get fliers out to 1.5MOA.
The BN36 was originally made for the long range competition market, and as you’ll see in the video, with casual rested shooting, I was able to shoot it easily into less than an inch of shot dispersion (sub-MOA) at 100 yards. I may buy this rifle from them because I’d like to get back into hand loading for the benefit of our readers here. So far we have only run stuff from novice reloaders here, and mostly it has been introductory. As some of you evolve into active reloaders, there is a lot you can do with a rifle like this to improve accuracy, consistent accuracy, as you step away from factory ammo.
My “secret weapon” in these accuracy tests with factory ammo has become Hornady American Whitetail. I don”t know why, but the 150 grain version of that load always seems to shoot good in every .308 I have tested it, and now this .30-06 reacted similarly. There was a very noticeable difference in hot bore vs. cold bore in the BN36. If you are a police sniper and the first shot is all that counts, I would say that this gun, cold bore first shot to cold bore first shot, is south of “ragged hole” with just about any ammo. For competition, it will take careful handloads on a sweet spot kind of load to keep the gun in MOA all afternoon, but that is true of most rifles, and for sure all semi-autos.
In the video you’ll see that I ran steel cased Russian ammo in the gun, because I think it is a good choice for an afternoon at the range. The gun runs nice and clean, and the case does not ding the rifle on the way out.
As you’ll see in the video, in addition to high end target and hunting ammo, I also shot a bunch of steel cased Wolf from Russia. Cold bore, it also shot fairly MOA, and even fast shooting on a really hot gun I could keep inside the accuracy potential of most out of the box tactical rifles in its price range. Steel cased ammo is really up to you. I first shot some brass ammo in the gun to see if the cases were impacting the frame anywhere, and they were not, so I felt that it was safe to shoot without worrying about damaging the alloy frame of the rifle.
That, by the way, is a sign of a well tuned semi-auto, and it is not surprising that the Noreen family are long range enthusiasts who reload. If a gun is set up right, it shouldn’t damage your brass. Some people won’t shoot steel at all in their guns, but I think of this rifle as a workingman’s gun toy, because even though it is a handmade firearm, the price isn’t in the stratosphere for what you get. Unless you handload, steel is your best bet for an afternoon of plinking on the cheap.
The .30-06 us ballistically similar to the .308, but you can squeeze a little more velocity out of the same bullet with the right powders in the .30-06. For instance, the .30-06 Hornady American Whitetail is 90 feet per second faster than the same bullet in the same ammo for .308.
Noreen seems to make all of their own hardware for the gun, including the flash hider. It is threaded for 5/8×24.
The main difference is the size of the action. Historically the .30-06 is called a “long action whereas the .308 is called a “short action.” If you look at a Remington 700, they will be listed in caliber groups along those lines. There are now carbine models of this Noreen, but with a shorter barrel, there is little difference ballistically between the two calibers, and I wouldn’t call it more than a curiosity. In a 16″ barrel, I’d rather have a gun that takes a standardized, smaller, lighter magazine. Nearly all .308 AR-15s will also be slightly lighter than this 9 lb. rifle. It does weigh less than an M1 Garand though.
I’m sure there are some internals that are not made in house, but outwardly only the buttstock and handgrip are aftermarket. I like the stock, but it doesn’t seem to adjust, and has no cheekpiece or rear peg that you can add.
In my afternoon with the BN36 I had no failures, once I figured out what I was doing wrong. If you watch the video, you’ll see that I shoot on a Caldwell Lead Sled (sans the lead), and the support bar on that model is made for standard AR mags. The slot between the bars is not big enough for the beefy Noreen .30-06 mag, so the mag was pushing up, dragging the next shell on the reciprocating action. This was causing stovepipes nearly every shot. When I realized the issue and put a block under the stock, my problems vanished and never again did the gun hang up.
As I explained in the video, I used a Burris Veracity 2-10x First Focal Plane scope for this range session. If you haven’t tried an FFP scope you really should. They make long range shooting much easier, and this rifle lives and breaths long range shooting, so it was a good match.
The directions that come with the BN36 say that you may have to tighten up the gas block when you first shoot your gun out of the box, but I did not. It shot light bullets, heavy bullets, target ammo, Hornady Superformance ammo, all without a hangup, and it didn’t seem like the action was being battered. You may need to adjust your gun and you may not, but at least be aware that an adjustment is available.
If you have question about this gun or you want it in a custom configuration, visit Noreen’s website and contact them directly. From what I can tell, they make all but the buttstocks in house, and they are even selling their own drop in triggers these days as well. Is a niche nerd gun? Is it a police sniper rifle? Is it a competition gun? My take is that at $2000 bucks, the Noreen BN36 Long Range Assassin is just a good deal on a great rifle.
I’ve read all the comments posted – and I thought I had become the “get off my lawn” guy, but I was wrong. ALOT of ‘em are here posting. Even on a site like this, which if full of like minded guys, there are too many “experts” that are fueled by little more than personal opinion and lacking any sense of civility. It may or may not be this company’s version, but I will be purchasing a 30.06 in an AR platform. Why ? Because I want one. Are there better choices or options ? Maybe. Doesn’t have any bearing on WANT. I’d be willing to bet that anyone reading the article and/or posting has a firearm (if not several) that they didn’t need or another “expert” would be willing to pontificate why it (they) are less than optimal. Recommendations:
(1.) lose the I know more than you do attitudes
(2.) stop being so damned abrasive and condescending
There are literally hundreds of calibers and thousands of various firearms out there. Why ? I’ll let you “experts” figure it out.
Never had much use for a semi auto hunting rifle. Hunted with Rem 700 .243 and Browning BBR 30-06. If I was on hunt with someone never hunted with before I was often asked where my ammo pouch was. I simply pulled about 3 rounds out of my pocket and was invariably asked, is that all. It is range time and knowing weapon you have that day. Browning shot sub 1″ at 100 yards (burris 3×9) and 700 with weaver 4x would shoot black consistently. Where we hunted no need for those long range shots as a rule. I will add that when I shot a deer it was not hung in the den but put in the freezer for food. Primary meat until I could not hunt any longer was deer, dove, quail and fish. Butcher was not a friend.
YUP!! I have only ever carried three bullets. One to shoot, One in case I miss, and the last in case I see something else before I drag out the first one( tag permitting).
That’s all well and good until you hunt in Grizzly country, where having a 20 round box mag of 30-06 at hand is a major plus.
There are a lot of good opinions here but one thing I have always wondered about, why does it bother people how much others spend on anything? If someone wants to spend $1000 extra for a “look” or something “popular”, why worry about it?
Ed, Who is worried ??? If one can acquire the cash to swing the deal… go for it… The world is blessed with millions of people who pay way too much for almost everything… Those folks are out there in order to make others (like me) who can find a fantastic deal feel really wonderful about their purchase. The US Constitution (as of today) does not have an Amendment stating that we have to follow Government Guidelines and Policies of paying 10X to 20X the fair value of an item which we wish to acquire for whatever ridiculous reason we can come up with for wanting it. I don’t care is they mortgage their farm plus get an additional loan to spend big bucks on any item. Just know that I always research, analyze and think before making purchases. Sometimes I even overstep my boundaries and attempt to save others from doing dumb things !!! It all goes back to the simple fact that; IGNORANCE CAN (SOMETIMES) BE CORRECTED… but STUPIDITY IS FOREVER. Amen !!!
JP evidently falls into the FOREVER category. Value is intrinsic to the purchaser and your opinion is worthless in this instance. Ed has it right. If the buyer wants to spend the extra cash and that individual can afford it, then by all means go for it. I have spent good money on certain firearms that I absolutely wanted and I have yet to mortgage anything.
BC… I hear ya Loud and Clear and if you read my reply, I stated; that if you can afford it… to go for it. I am sorry to hear that you are one of the blessed millions of people who pay far too much for almost everything… That’s why prices on specific items are so ridiculously high… If people did not support paying inflated prices those items would be far less costly if the manufacturers expected to sell them. My opinion may be Worthless to You… However; it may be helpful to others who are not as fortunate as us to have a boat load of disposable cash. My point is, why spend $2,000, then @ $500-600 more for a scope (plus tax of @ $175-$200 range) when I can purchase a very nice Used (in 98-99% condition) Remington 7400 in the same caliber (plus many other calibers) with a descent scope already mounted on it for @ $500-$550… and have @ $2,200 cash remaining which will cover a lifetime or two of ammo. I agree that both rifles are totally different but basically they all do the same thing. I can afford to purchase the most expensive firearm on the market but I also have common sense which tells me… NOT TO DO SO. I have been a firearms enthusiast and gunsmith for over 60 years and very rarely ever resold a gun for less than I paid… following your lead, I would loose money on every transaction… Next, don’t even go to the enjoyment category… because I have truly enjoyed several hundred different firearms… some far more than others… which were rapidly recycled for another shooters pleasure or grief. That is my opinion of your opinion !!! Have a great Day…. JP
And I understand your opinion, JP. But that brings up two points. One, it is just an opinion. Two, quit judging ( and that is what you are doing when you call anyone who spends more than you think they should on a product STUPID…refer back to your first comment). I would love to purchase a Falkor Petra in 300 WinMag. $5800.00 manufacturers price. It doesn’t mean I’m stupid or anything other than different from you in respect to what value I believe a product holds. In addition, unless it is a WW2 relic, I don’t by used guns unless I can verify how it’s been treated. Again, this is my opinion. And items don’t get priced high just because a select group of individuals can afford those items (by the way, that blessing you spoke about comes by way of a 40 hour a week blue collar job as a machine tool mechanic.I work hard for what I purchase and I don’t make enough for the Falkor). What I have found is that you get what you pay for in most cases when dealing with the firearms industry. That’s why the price difference. You want to stretch your dollar further by going cheap, that’s your business. As I said in my post, it doesn’t make me or anyone else STUPID just because we are willing to pay a little more for the firearms we really want. And that is the exact opinion (guess everyone has one) that you reiterated in your second post. Oh, and by the way, never assume that someone enjoys the same characteristics of gun ownership that you enjoy.
“30-06 from the barn yard to the 1000 yard line” is a quote from the late Frank Marshall in The Fouling Shot Journal of the Cast Bullet Association. I’ve got my DCM Garand shooting better bought from the 1982 sale, $121.++ with worn bore (a cast bullet pushed into the muzzle would nearly fall through the bottom half of the bore but poured Cerrosafe casts in the throat and muzzle to measure the IDs) finally shooting at best 2.5 MOA with its iron sights with a tapered to fit the throat Lyman 314299 210 gr gas checked, heat treated to 28+BHN with a PVC vinyl wad under the bullet to tolerate the large throat (the wad is a long story), one load to function in rapid fire and a single loaded target load when WRA 54/LC69 DCM ammo (about 70% scores) only shot 6+ MOA, poorly on 600 yd targets, powder smelled like ammonia, and fouled the bore something awful, some copper and powder fouling. I quit that ammo, didn’t load any jacketed ammo and had been casting bullets since 1960 at age 15 as ignorant as a post. I also shot my ’03 Mark I sporter with Lyman 48 RS and globe FS to <1 MOA in bench rest matches, also shot it in DCM matches. We old men, some with Friday night exploits left us (me) with hangovers and dehydration, some youngsters and a few women with us at our range shot the 200/300/600 yd DCM timed matches in hot summer weather in Leland, Mississippi, alternately pulled targets and scored them in our pit until we old men just got too old to stand, sit in and prone positions got too painful, especially with my permanent/terminal inflammatory arachnoiditis disease that put me in a lot of hurt, had to quit those matches, retired in '92 at age 47 but called a few of them some 20+ years ago and now oxycodone at 71 is helping with some relief, not addicted the way I take pain meds, meaning rarely and just tolerate the minor pain. 30-06 is just one of too many to mention I hand loaded since 1960.
The youngsters want to call it an “O” six or an ought six, but FYI, it’s a 30 aught 6. Always has been since Winchester launched it in 1906. (dictionary says aught means 1.) anything at all, 2.) zero)
Either way, Carlos Hathcock sure liked the caliber for sniping in Vietnam. I imagine its a matter of time before somebody will build an AR in EVERY caliber known. LOL
I’m OLD! And I like a good aught six! Now GET OFF MY LAWN!!
I think I will keep my FN SCAR 17s…………….
I hear all you wanna-be military fellows who need an ugly black rifle to shoot a real mans hunting cartridge and would like to comment. Anyone who has $2.000 (plus tax) to waste on such a beast could find a much better way to spend that cash… I Currently own a few Remington semi auto rifles which I purchased used in 98-99% condition and can easily duplicate or even better the 100 yard groups in this article… # 1 is a Remington 742 in 30/06′ # 2 is a Remington 7400 in .270 Win. and # 3 is a Remington 7400 in .35 Whelen of which all three of these will shoot sub 1 MOA at 100 yards with 4 x 12 scopes of different manufacture. The interesting part is that all three rifles including the scopes have only cost me @ 3/4 of the $2,000 price tag for just one Noreen BN36… and Those Remington’s are much prettier to look at with that nice bluing and more appealing checkered walnut stocks than those Common Everyday Military looking Black Rifles that are non-select-able and for some strange reason have become the craze of the shooting world… can also purchase magazines online or at gun shows for @ $25-$30 range and the same exact magazine will work in all three rifles. I have even found a set of 3 – 10 round Magazines at a recent gun-show for just a $50.00 bill.
Woh. You. Are. Awesome. Can I follow you around and be your lacky?
Yea JoshO… You can follow me around at the gun shows but I get 1st choice… In fact I now have a lead on a Rem 7400 in 7mm Express which is the same as the old .280 Rem cartridge… Gun is still in original box un-fired with three boxes of ammo and if I show up today with a $400 Bill… it’s all mine, so will be heading out in a few minutes to add that one to the collection. I’m also OLD with @ 60 plus years of trigger pulling experience, so I’ll even bring it over to your place and we can sight it in to help protect and keep people off your lawn… If that’s OK… Have a great day and happy shooting.
60+ years of shooting experience and you don’t know that the 7mm express was renamed the 280 Remington and not vice versa. I’ve read some of your comments and your opinions are just that, your opinions. No need to bash people and call them stupid or ignorant for spending their money they way they want too.
And your point would be?
Poor fella, $2k is pocket change for some of us. My gun collection is well beyond the $50k mark, and I don’t even hunt. I love to burn thousands of rounds a year, it’s fun and reminds me of my time in the Army. I’ll probably never have a need for a single gun in my collection, but I got each one because it’s what I wanted. May your life be as satisfying.
One simple fact being missed by all comments here is…SHOT PLACEMENT! The type of action, caliber, style or gun manufacturer has absolutely no bearing if you can’t hit what you aim at! A 40 grain .22 caliber bullet will kill just as dead as a .338 Lapua. DEAD is DEAD! If you are a “shooter” who wants damage to your prize meat, use the .300 Win. Mag. or the .338 Lapua! I personally don’t eat the antlers, so I use the absolute smallest caliber possible to get the job done! A good example of this is the .223 caliber M-16 vs. the 7.62 x 39mm AK47, 22 caliber vs 30 caliber! Any gun was made for one reason, and one reason only! To kill what it is shot at. With over 22 years in the military, i have never found a country that has found a way to bring back the “dead”, As a lifelong hunter of everything from Rabbits to Elk and Bear, I have used everything from a .22 (rabbits) to a .300 Win Mag for bears. In the military I have had the privilege to use many other countries weapons from Israel, China, Romania, Russia, Brazil, etc… The one thing they all have in common, they were all made for one reason only-to kill! Whether you spend $500.00, or you spend $10,000, you will get the same desired effect-whatever you shoot will die! My final 2 cents, buy a good, less expensive weapon and learn it and tune it to your own specific purposes. Find the absolute BEST bullet for your gun and stick with it! Quit putting all your money into the gun, and start putting it into optics and bullet configuration! GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!
Nice gun in my favorite caliber as well.
However, for two thousand dollars one would think if they build a drop in trigger they would just put it in the rifle to start with!
I am tired of spending a grand or more for a name brand gun, then having to spend hundreds more to make it shoot like the same gun did 30 years ago. Junk triggers, lousy fitting stocks, that fold up like they were made from old Clorox bottles, etc.
If you want me to spend $2000+ on a new rifle these days, IF you make a “drop in trigger” that is better than your standard one, then it had damn well be IN it when I buy it or NO deal.
I love the fact this rifle is in 30-06 and does not depend on the charging handle system of the AR15. I have never been a fan of that system and preferred the AK47 or M1 systems where a person actually can get a hold of the bolt and pull it back instead of relying on the bolt carrier group handle that seems flimsy. I just wish the gun would be closer to $1,000 than $2,000. I would also be curious to know what powders are recommended for loads in the rifle, and if they are the same as those recommended when reloading for the M1 Garand.
I do a fair amount of meat hunting in Alaska every year. The 06 is the best for taking moose, caribou & sheep. The higher velocity calibers are nice flat shooters but are hard on meat. The 06 is a perfect compromise in that it will shoot a heavy moose round and a lighter caribou/sheep round. It is a pleasure to shoot the 06 after years of punishing magnum calibers…nice job Noreen.
My 1970 Remington 742 semi-auto in 97% shape cost me $375 used with a 4X weaver scope and two mags. Tough to justify the difference at $1.00/round to feed it.
Sign of the times… INFLATION… Ammo… like everything has gotten very expensive and due to the economics of the situation it has almost become wasteful even to consider firing a warning shot. That $1.00 a round is even going into the History File. I am also a big fan of the Remington 742 and 7400 and currently own 4 of them… which are all Sub-MOA shooters at 100 yards and can easily reach out to 500 yards with acceptable groups that are more than adequate to get the job done. I totally agree, why spend $2,000 when a $400 rifle will do the same job. Words of Wisdom from someone with over 60 years of shooting tight sub- MOA groups.
Very interesting rifle. I’ve always been a fan of the `06, and have waited long for the A/R platform to sprout one.
Considering the cost of this rifle, though, I was surprised to read that the author was using Russian ammo. I consider it garbage. Besides the steel case, all of it I’ve seen also had a steel jacket. (ok, so it’s copper washed. Big deal) It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know what happens when you start ripping steel though steel at extremely high temperatures and speeds. You are going to see a bore shot out very prematurely. Maybe it’s just me, but my $2,000 means enough to me that I don’t want it wasted. I’ll stick with softer jacket materials than steel!
The stock in question is the LUTH-AR Skulleton. The company makes an adjustable cheek piece and hardware to make the butt plate adjustable as well. Why the company chose to run the $60 version vice the $130 version on a gun this nice I can’t say, but it can be made fully adjustable by purchasing one or both kits direct from the company.
I have been saving for a Noreen for a few months now so my wife won’t know how much I paid for it. I am bouncing back and forth from 270 to 30-06, I reload 270 now and don’t really want to start another caliber, but then again, it is 30-06.
I can’t hardly wait to get one.
Ill be the naysayer.
If you a!ready load 30-06, sure, I get it, but if not, .308 makes more sense in a large format AR rifle. Lower cost, more interchangeable parts, more available and lower cost ammo, semiauto short vs long actions, and minimal loss of ballistic performance w 308 vs 30-06 qualify this as much more of a niche rifle and only in very specific instances would this fit a user better than a 308 based model.
Honestly if I were going outside of standard patterned guns, I’d be hard pressed to look away from NEMO Arms 300 win mag large format AR type rifle. Now you are seeing gains over 308 worth writing an article about!
The gun market is about to crash, good luck with ANOTHER 2k dollar rifle. Enough already with the we tuned it better then you can or build cheaper. Accuracy isn’t dedicated to the rifle alone.
YOU ARE RIGHT SIR………………….I’M ON THE TOP SITES EVERY NIGHT………………..BLOWS ME AWAY…..
THESE GUNS AT MARKET VALUE ARE NOT SELLNG!…………………NEVER SEEN IT THIS BAD IN 40 YRS!!!!!!!!!!!! HOPE WE”RE WRONG……………….HOPE THIS ISN’T THE START!!!!!!!!!!!!
MKE
Always been a 30-06 fan
This looks like a interesting platform but disappointed at same time that its not a true ar platform with the same type of charging/bolt system forward assist etc etc.
Dear Sir,
You don’t shoot steel case ammo in a rifle to not damage the frame, a cosmetic damage. You avoid steel case because steel expands and contracts differently than brass… Yes semi-auto’s tolerances are not as tight as bolt-actions, so steel case ammo will function, but you need to mention the reasons steel case ammo is to be avoided, i.e. potential damage to chamber, bolt face, extractor… Oh and let’s take a look at the manufacturers warranty, I haven’t yet, because as the “test writer” that’s your job. So this is the second article I’ve read of yours and I’m already wondering what makes you think you are qualified to tell the shooting public anything… especially us shooters that use our firearms to put meat on the table.
Ohio ordnance BAR is far superior to this!
My be if you want to carry a tank around and have you shoulder knocked off for twice the price . NOt me the AR platform is the way for consistent more accurate shots with the same 24 inch barrel.
Great review, enjoyed the background info on Mr. Noreen. This has been on my list, since before it was created. So many rounds, so little time (and$). .30-06 is the queen of cartridges. I have waited for this, rather than purchasing a .308 semi-auto rifle, so I didn’t have another round to reload. This will complete a great family of .30-06 rifles: a 1/2MOA 1978 Rem 700, a 1956 IHC M1 Garand, and now the Noreen BN36.
Just got to squeeze it in the budget, somehow.
We are all in the same boat with you. 🙂
30-06 is not the queen of cartridges. IT IS THE KING!!!
You call it “THIRTY- OD- SIX”
It is pronounced thirty-ought-six.
That’s funny.
First $2000 rifle that seems worth $2000 since H&K first started selling their PSG series here – in the 1980s!
I think it’s a pretty cool rifle! If I had an extra $2k sitting around, I would seriously consider making a purchase 🙂
Eric
No offense, but I would like to know how you arrived at the conclusion that a muzzle brake was the cause of your FTF’s?
He didn’t. He clearly stated it was the magazine / LeadSled relationship that caused it.
Mr. Helinski
You stated that the 150gr always shoots better for you in the 308 and now the 30-06.
The reason most likely is the rifling in the different guns. As you (should) know the slower twist rate will stabilize the lighter bullets (actually shorter) better than a faster twist or a heavier bullet.
I once had (still kicking myself!!) a Savage 110E 243win that would barley shoot 90gr bullets and forget trying anything bigger.
With 75gr HP Speers it printed a 0.087″ three shot group one day while I was trying different powder charges that I had loaded. The barrel had a 1:12 twist.
I’m still looking for that gun … but I’ve still got the target from that day.
I wouldn’t say that is true at all. I’ve had plenty of rifles that liked heavier bullets. If you talk to a real competition gunsmith, like I have at the US Army Marksmanship Unit, every barrel has a harmonic preference for a specific bullet. They actually mount their barrels in a device and set aside the ammo that shoots best in it. It is batch to batch even, so they put away 1500 rounds with it, which is the life of their barrels for high level competition.
Barley is a grain. I think you meant barely..
Well, good thing you were here to clear that up for us all.
Thank you for your extraordinary contribution to the conversation.
The spelling police and those determined to identify errors in the world are in evidence. We are on the same team. I, and I believe 99% of mortals could not care less if you barely spell barley or God forbid, Make an error you ought to have caught.
This was a very interesting and informative article, Mr. Helinski, thank you. Pleaze keep up the good werk.
Pete
Well then you would be wrong. Just because these days most people have such low expectations doesn’t mean we all do. Guy is writing an article and doesn’t know the difference twixt breath and breathe. I guess school is completely overrated. That being said, I enjoyed the article. But don’t act like we’re the stupid ones here. Where do you draw the line? If a carpenter can’t measure correctly, you get a crooked house. You wouldn’t want a blind surgeon cutting on you either. A dishwasher who leaves food on silverware will eventually get fired for Christs sake. But no, don’t point out a spelling error. No need for spelling around here. You might offend someone who can’t farging spell.
I really don’t see the point. Don’t get me wrong, the ’06 is one of THE best all around calibers out there, but in lighter bullet weights it’s simply not as efficient as the .308.
The caliber really shines when the heavier bullets are used, and especially with todays powders, makes the idea of the ‘Magnums’ simply a need for speed.
It’s cool, but I’d rather have the 7.62 and all the brass savings.
It’s just that slight edge in muzzle velocity with longer barrels that makes handloading and experimentation with different bullet weights and powder loads more worth it in 30-06… you can just put more powder in the longer case, and if you have a barrel that’ll shoot well with it, then you have an (admittedly slight) edge on the ,308. Although, personally, for big game and such, if I were looking at alternatives to .308 (and I would), I’d go past 30-06 to something with more kinetics.
But you’re right, for punching holes in paper, it’s whatever shoots tightest, and that’s a crapshoot between .308 and .30-06.
If I was a young buck looking to go after the biggest game in North America (providing I was rich enough to do that stuff), one of those rifles or carbines in .300 Winchester Magnum would be a great choice.
But I am an old poor fart and I am satisfied to kill paper targets at the gun range with my P-10 in .308 Winchester which does a good job at less than half the price and can also accept P-Mags.
And if I could only get it to stop scratching my brass on extraction I would reload the used stuff.
But the target ammo I use is relatively economical and I don’t put any steel brass through it .
Looks as though someone went back in time and made a semi only version of the “Moniter” gun, with modern metalurgy & plastics…
There is no game in North America that can’t be take, and have been taken for a hundred years, with a .30-06. The 300 WinMag is for rich hunters who can afford the rotator cuff surgery after being beaten up by this unnecessary caliber.
If is did well as a switch barrel, as it should, I would be interested. My current favorite is on the cheap side, with a Savage that has 25-06 AI, 30-06 AI, and 338-06 AI barrels. An easier barrel change would be nice, but Savage is not bad for changing barrels, wrench is not too much trouble.