  This is our build of the Juggernaut Rogue M1A Bullpup stock from US Tactical Supply. We started with an out of the box Springfield Armory SOCOM and ended up with this very sophisticated and sexy as hell bullpup monster that shoots better and is easier to handle. On top is an armored UTG 3-12 with illuminated reticle and an NC Star foregrip.
 This is the Rogue next to a standard SOCOM 16 to give you and idea of the size difference. Most of the weight is in the back so it mounts and pivots naturally, even though the kit ads over 2 pounds to the gun.
 This is the kit as it comes out of the box. In the plastic is the top rail. The main chassis separates with that big screw in the rear so you can drop in the frame of the gun. The three black parts are the side clamp, the front clamp, and the side charging handle that mounts on the op rod. In the small plastic bags are rubber spacers so you can level the top rail if you need to.
 This is a company promo photo from US Tactical Supply. Note the Made in US, by Americans!
 Ben assembled this build and shot the gun at 100 yards to see what she could do.
 This fairly well spaced 2 inch group is indicative of what the gun seemed to be able to do. For an M1A out of the box this is pretty good, and well within the parameters of any .308 (7.62x51NATO) battle rifle.
 If you are curious how she works, this is the transfer bar that floats between the chassis trigger and the pusher bar on the actual rifle trigger. When you press the trigger on the Rogue you are pressing the actual trigger, so you lose nothing, and there is no gunsmith required.
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Juggernaut Tactical Rogue Bullpup M1A Chassis
U.S. Tactical Supply Inc.
541-928-8645 PH
[email protected]
https://www.ustacticalsupply.com/rogue
Order your Free US Tactical Supply Catalog HERE
Finding the perfect tactical rifle isn’t so simple for some folks. We have to complicate matters, because we just don’t want what everyone else has. Trust me on this one guys and gals. Nobody you know has the Juggernaut Tactical Rogue M1A Bullpup stock from US Tactical Supply. It is an aluminum bullpup masterpiece that will not only add just over 2 pounds to your M1A/M14, it will also be kind enough to set you back a righteous $899. Who can resist that?
I first ran into this bad boy while researching the entity known as “FPS Russia” on Youtube. You may have seen his videos online, as some of them are fairly extreme. He loves to blow stuff up. Turns out FPS is actually not a Russian at all, but an American playing a Russian character for the videos. The amazing thing is that he seems to be able to source every manner of machinegun and techno-soldier toy known to the military industrial complex. He even has helicopters and armed flying tactical drones. This is why some of his videos receive sometimes reach several million views in the first couple weeks they are up.
Kevin Swanson at US Tactical Supply, who is the primary contact and retail channel for the Juggernaut Rogue, did a video with FPS Russia using a full auto M14, and then he followed it up by making a special FPS Russia version of the Rogue stock that has been chromed, and limited to only ten pieces at $1299 each (a few are left as of this writing). No it isn’t the best coating for hard use in desert, nor is chrome the most ideal urban camouflage, but it’s cool enough for most gun club ooohs and aaaahs, which is a specialty for the Juggernaut Rogue anyway. Not a gun nut alive will be able to resist a turn of the head for this tricked out M1A bullpup, and that alone is worth the close to a grand it takes to own one.
What we found most surprising about the Rogue was how stable and well designed the system is made. This is no cool tricked out toy…
Well, it kinda is, let’s face it, but it isn’t just that.
What the Rogue really does is give you a .308 caliber weapon with a full 16″ barrel and the velocity that goes with that, in a package the size of the tiniest SBR (Short Barreled Rifle). The only other gun that can say this in the world is the Kel-Tec RFB, but for one you can’t get them, and this is an M1A, a United States battle rifle, not an experimental and untested design. The RFB is a nifty gun, but it’s no M1A. If you know how to treat an M1A/M14, they will go and go forever, and they almost never jam or fail to fire.
At the cost of a couple pounds plus, with the Juggernaut Rogue you dispose of the entire, somewhat awkward and lanky length of the shoulder stock on a stock M1A. It is heavier, granted, but you can turn corners with a full snot .308, (7.62×51 NATO) in a package that even though it is 11 pounds, seems light and manageable, because of the small size. That is a nasty tactical weapon, not just a cool bullpup toy, and that is why the Rogue has already been sold through US Tactical to private soldiers worldwide. They even have their own DoD number, so even though they won’t tell us about it, the Juggernaut Rogue is most likely in the field with our troops as well.
We built our Rogue on a standard SOCOM 16 from Springfield Armory. It is already not a light gun, coming in at eight and about three quarter pounds with an empty magazine. The Rogue brings that total up to a nearly flat 11 pounds empty, with the 20 round magazine. It is noticeably rear heavy, so with the sling swivels set up the way they are, both in the rear, you end up with a butt of the gun that comes into your shoulder naturally, and pivots and points like it is a part of your shoulder. Even though it is over two pounds heavier, the Rogue version of the SOCOM handles quicker than the straight stocked version. We added a tactical scope and front handle for our pictures, and the company promo pics have a red dot on top and Magpul front grip.
A side benefit of the Rogue is that it also seems to enhance the accuracy potential of the M1A, which is perhaps the biggest complaint you hear about the gun in general. The front top handguard of the M1A/M14 is held on by a metal spring clip that fits into grooves cut into the rear of the barrel. It takes some force to get that clip on correctly and the pressure of that spring is thought to pull the harmonics of the barrel to one side. This is thought to contribute to the average 2-3 MOA you can expect from an off the rack gun. The Rogue free floats the barrel, so the accuracy potential should improve on paper. In our tests, the best that our resident US Army Sniper Ben Becker (who also did the assembly on the kit) could shoot with it was about 1.5-2 inches at 100 yards, which translates to 1.5-2 MOA. That is considered really good for an M1A out of the box without any accurizing or competition parts. It is also competitive with the other .308 battle rifles out there, the AR-10, FAL, HK-91, etc. Very few of those guns ever get into better than 2 MOA. What is also nice is that we took the top rail assembly off the lower to add the left cocking handle after the gun had been zeroed, and the zero remained true when the gun was put back together. The Juggernaut Rogue seems to be a professional weapon system.
Assembly of the Rogue is not as complicated as it looks. You take off the front scout rail from your SOCOM, remove the rear and front site, and lift the hand guard to separate the barreled action from the stock. Then you mount front and rear clamps, no gunsmith required, and bolt the chassis to these clamps with large Allen screws. The left side charging handle goes on the op rod (see the pictures), so you end up with both left and right charging capabilities. You clamp the top to the bottom with the same trigger guard system that holds together your standard M1A, and she’s ready to rock. The company has videos showing the process as well.
When we posted the original photo of this into Facebook, the first questions that came in were “how’s the trigger?” Well strangely enough, the trigger is exactly the same as it was before you installed the Juggernaut Rogue. There is a transfer bar between the trigger in the chassis and the trigger on your gun, that, once installed, will now be buried back into the rear of the stock next to your head. When you pull the trigger, you are in fact pulling the real trigger with the transfer bar. No internal modifications are required at all. A gunsmith can clean up an M1A trigger somewhat, but don’t try to modify it yourself or you may find that the gun begins to fire bursts instead of single shots. Ben was able to shoot it fairly well with the stock trigger and the transfer bar, and this is a battle rifle of course. Very few battlefields this side of the sandbox require a shot longer than a couple hundred yards, and this rifle fills that handily.
The Juggernaut Rogue is not the most elegant of devices, but she works and she’s sexy as all get out. “Bring Enough Gun” is the tagline for the Springfield SOCOM 16 M1A, and as much as we all love AR-15s, that little .223 is after all a woodchuck cartridge. The Rogue brings a whole new light to the .308 M1A as a small tactical battle rifle. Assembled, it is nearly as small as most pistol caliber subguns, and there is no need for a long and drawn out license for an SBR, where they are even legal. Even if your significant other won’t let you spend the $899, the Rogue makes a heck of a secret mistress (or mister), and a toy like this is always going to hold its value if you ever decide to move on to another love.
As we have said with many of these really nifty specialty guns and gun products, the Juggernaut Rogue *will dry up* at some point, and once they are gone they will become collectible as well. The M1A SOCOM is already one of the “must haves” for any self respecting gun accumulation. How much more so is one outfitted with a Juggernaut Rogue. It takes an already exciting gun and makes it incomparable to anything that will otherwise grace your safe, and even for an armchair tactical zombie killer, there is nothing like it out there. The Juggernaut Rogue is truly unique.
See below for clickable pictures ont the assembly procedure.
Assembly Overview for the Juggernaut Tactical Rogue
 Pull down the back of your triggerguard and that will remove the entire trigger assembly, then the action pulls right out of the stock.
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 These are your parts, as above. First unscrew the two big bolts from the sides of the cheekpiece and slide that off the back.
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 The front sight comes off very easily with an Allen screw.
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 This is the front clamp that installs with two Allen screws.
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 Pull down the back of your triggerguard and that will remove the entire trigger assembly, then the action pulls right out of the stock.
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 The Rogue comes with good instructions, including the trick of how to get this rear sight apart. If you fiddle with it you can figure it out yourself.
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 The front sight comes off very easily with an Allen screw.
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 This is the front clamp that installs with two Allen screws.
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 This is the front clamp and it installs with this Allen screw.
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 The op rod comes out the side like this, lined up right under the sight. This can be difficult and you may need to grab the charging handle with a pliers in a piece of leather or cloth to wrestle it out the first time.
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 This is the charging handle that mounts to the left of the stock looking from the stop, so you have both a right and a left charging handle on the Rogue.
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 You can mount the top rail to the clamps first.
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 Or you can drop the receiver into the bottom part of the Rogue and mount the rail from there.
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 Either way you will want to check the square on it with a level so you don’t run into difficulties with zeroing the scope if the rail isn’t straight.
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 The trigger assembly drops in just like it does in the regular stock, and it holds the whole thing together, just like with a regular M1A. You catch the trigger bar as you put it in .
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 This extra trigger guard clips on easily.
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 Those big bolts are on both sides of the cheekpiece and hold it on. It slides on the back and clips right in, then you screw the bolts down.
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 When she’s done she’s done, and then you can put on your other stuff to make her even heavier. But it’s so worth it!
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This is a great concept for M1A, however, I am an old school soldier and do like the standard stock over the Bullpuppy….. There is going to be a time you are charging an enemy position, while firing away at that enemy…. Then, you’re going to find yourself within a few feet of that position looking down the barrel of whatever enemy you had trembling in the bottom of that foxhole…. As you top the edge of that Foxhole and your enemy realizes your mag is empty and you have no time to change mags, he will be bringing his rifle to bear down on you as you leap into the foxhole with him(This maneuver is known as “Closing with the Enemy”) ….. At this point, not only do I want a full stock to crash with his teeth, I also want a bayonet on the business end of my rifle to see what he had for breakfast…. Mind you, a bayonet has 2 purposes. 1) dissecting your enemy and 2) keeping your muzzle free of mud as you loose your balance while running over uneven terrain (It does happen at times)… I’m a Cold War Arctic Light soldier with 7 tours of SWA under my belt…. Yea, I know…awesome right?…. The leverage you get from a full stock does have it’s benefits and I would hate to be without it…. I know some of you younger fellas like to think of CQB as Close Quarters Battle….but actually it stands for Close, Quick, Bayonet…. Once you are inside a building or narrow alleyways, you don’t want your enemy to know how Close you really are… Otherwise, there is no surprise… CQB Weapon System, M1911 .45 and M7 Bayonet…. There is a real reason God made Bayonets…. and a full size stock is half the system…
read all the rants; jugg-rogue sounds like the bestest for real combat, all-around! re heavier 7.62NATO ammo: anybody ever try rigging magazines semi-permanently into a bandolier, so you have full mags on one side of the gun, empties on the other side; when all mags in bandolier empty, exchange it for a fresh bandolier, from a pvt, who runs empty-bandoliers back to the rear to fetch fresh-bandoliers, where they reload empties, for the shooters at the front; similar for grenade-bandoliers; bottled-water, maybe a can-o-sardines in one bandolier-pocket [appreciate not taking 10 minutes to register to comment, as usually do]
You realize Bullpups aren’t made for southpaws you have a bigger issue with the charging handle knocking out your 2 front teeth
Nice, but the ejection port will feed hot brass down the neck of a southpaw.
Gentlemen ! { I’m Using that term loosely } it’s okay to say ya just don’t like it but to try and tear down a great idea because you just don’t like/ disagree is STUPID. You’ve got the best of both worlds compact/long barrell capability and stopping power. I NEVER SERVED but who has actually butt stroked anyone in the last 20 years ? The weight issue, fucking grow a pair and deal with it. besides those ACTUALLY serving when have/are you gonna HUMP out where ever with full gear and actually have your life depend on the weight you’re carrying ? To me the rifle LOOKS cool, it’s got stopping power and is compact. So for me if and or when the zombie apocalypse actually happens you’re only gonna be good for the first few weeks after that using anything bigger than a .22 is going to invite trouble from any direction because they can hear you. So ultimately it’s just your preferred toy ( unless you actually have an under ground bunker with thousands of rounds and the ability to make more along with for and medicine ) I like it and from reading it looks like instead of going with the Juggernaut Rogue.
That’s my .02 cents, stepping of my soap box.
Will this bullpup work with an early Super Match M1-A, with early heavy(heavy) barrel, 22 inch?
http://www.athenswater.com/images/100yards.jpg
Even though it could stand to be two pounds lighter, the Gen II Rogue conversion kit is not that bad… much better than the 1st generation kit. I am running a CQB-16 type SEI barreled action with Magpul MBUS PRO and an Aimpoint Comp M4s. The overall length without the sound suppressor is 28.00″, and the left side charging handle is very handy for cycling the action when firing subsonic ammunition.
subsonic? what’s the bullet wgt? sounds like good for silent sniping, manual-eject
First off guys, stop whining. I am currently living in the UK, and you don’t know anything about draconian gun laws until you have lived here. I have applied for a firearms license four times and been denied each time. The last time i ended up calling the local firearms officer an “incompetent dumbass”, thus ensuring that i will never get a license. It was worth it though, turns out he just hates Americans, I cannot wait to move back to the States.
Secondly, I carried an M-14 for about 2 years and loved it except for it’s length, it was a pain in the ass in thick cover but it still felt comforting to have some authority when i pulled the trigger. This bullpup design would have been perfect back then, all the positive attributes of the M-14 but in a shorter overall package with MUCH better balance, thereby reducing fatigue. This does NOT turn this into an SRB, it still retains the full barrel length thus also retainin the original velocity, power, and accuracy. Those of us that have had to un-ass vehicles or helicopters in a hurry will immediately see the advantage in a weapon based on this conversion, it is easy to manouver, powerul, accurate, easy to bring into battery, everything a warfighter would want. And as for buttstroking somebody, I have never been in a position where I needed to.
So, all in all this is a pretty damn nice idea, i wish i had one 35 years ago.
Yep – I preferred the M-14 to that POS M-16 for that very reason. I want to reach out and touch someone at a longer distance and also have something that isn’t going to crumble in my arms when I have to use it in a hand-to-hand fight.
semper fi (or ‘gung ho’ that far back?) what’s SRB?
You can tell the real Marines from the suckbutt wannabees when you talk butt stroke and they ridicule you! If you simpering ass sukers had been in the Marines you’d know this is a hand to hand tactic with the rifle. And it has nothing to do with stroking a butt. But! It will shatter your jaw and collapse your throat.
right; look at the decades of fancy telescoping m16-stocks, vs AK wood stocks
Is this Rogue chassis system also completely compliable with the full length barrel? medium guaged, match grade ( 22″ if i remeber correctly)
looks freaking bad ass!!!
I am really surprised at the lack of knowledge on a gun web site. People slamming each other for their opinions. I guess if they can not attach the product – attack the person – so shallow. People not understanding the benefits of a bull pup. I was always concerned about the blowback issue and have been warned by people that know their stuff ( ex-nam and swat member) but purchased one anyway. Very simple to put together – 20 minutes max. With military, Law enforcement and hunting experience here’s my take. Whether your in a jungle, with trees and dense brush all around, you need someting you can turn with without hitting the end of the barrel on something while maintaining a good sight picture. If your in open country you still have the ability to reach out and touch someone. While in a patrol car, can be quickly removed from a verticle rack and exiting, without hitting the roof of the car. It gives you the power to puch through and hit most barricaded suspects. I am now retired but will use it for hunting – don’t want to be tracking a deer and hit a tree 🙂
Now how about making this for the Ruger Mini-14
In all the trash talking I see about bullpups serving no useful function, I don’t see anybody thinking about one of the most practical considerations regarding guns that actually get USED (as opposed to just taken out of the safe, to the range, shot, cleaned, and put back in the safe). That would be TRANSPORTING the gun! I’ll take anything that shaves length off a rifle and makes it easier and less cumbersome to transport in a vehicle, carry on foot, etc.
Another thought…
In some states rifles below 30″ and over 26″ register as pistols. Pistols can be carried by license holders. I see a bit of appeal to having a powerful “handgun” like this in my vehicle. Especially in this day of rampages and ersatz snipers with something they feel they need to prove. You can return fire with a pistol cartridge if you like but I prefer the advantage of hydra-static shock.
Anybody have a wife or child interested in rifle shooting? If they are smaller in stature complete number one in rifle use for them is weight. No help there. However reassignment of weight closer to the body could help them enjoy shooting a high powered rifle more.
Want to suppress your rifle but hate the idea of hauling around something with an overall length of nearly 50 inches? Well an 18.5″ barrel plus a 10″ suppressor on this design would surely be less trouble.
The point of an SBR has much to do with transitioning from one target to the next faster. This does that without giving up velocity or bullet stabilization. I would venture a guess that this would be more accurate than a convention rifle of the same overall length. You get all the barrel still where a matching length conventional rifle would need an SBR barrel to match this. Also you don’t give up precious FPS this way which keeps the effective range at the maximum.
Sharpshooters have welcomed the bullpup with open arms. Look at the fine weapons from Desert Tactical. When you don’t want to be seen the smaller you are the better. No long barrel sticking out. Still the same barrel length. Of course the trigger isn’t as sweet but you can train through that. I have often thought though that eliminating the host rifles trigger completely in favor of a new set of parts designed to activate the sear could give better trigger pulls in bullpups. The host trigger is a lever after all and a linkage could be more effective here. The Kel Tec RFB is a good example here of the trigger actually being the trigger. When my Rogue arrives I think I’ll take some time having a careful look at the M-14 trigger module. Eliminating it in favor of a module specifically designed to work with this system might make this that much better.
I like it. The designer took something that worked very well with a proven track record for excellence in several venues including competition and a variety of uses in combat from close ranges to far. He or she then took that proven weapon and made it more ergonomic in their opinion. Not to make this work look like less than it is but this is very much the same as changing the stock, shortening the rifle or adding parts to make it better suited for it’s job. Don’t forget that your EBR, SOCOM, M21 or National Match rifle is not the same as the M14 that sired it. Playing down this rifle would be just like saying that the National Match or Super Match is junk just because it is made different than the M14. Ignoring the potential of this design is much like ignoring a modern vehicle in favor of a Model T. Worse it’s no better than people who once insisted the world was flat instead of round. You want to run a classic then run one. I don’t see many soldiers going into battle with Garands even though they are a fine weapon. Good lord you’re responding to this whole matter on the internet! Shouldn’t some of you be writing letters to the admin or even etching your thoughts on a tablet? This is more than some cool looking device. It’s the result of what I can only guess is months or even years of hard work by it’s designer. John Moses Browning would be proud.
If this thing is heresy then I guess I’m a heretic. Admin please email me more info I think I would like to own one of these and I may like a few to convert some rifles for resale at the shop.
Naysayers please continue to express your right to free speech but please do so politely. Show some respect for the hard work of your fellow Americans.
Administrator, Does this conversion work with the Ruger mini-14 in .223 ?
If not, could you please send me a link to what rifles the juggernaut will accept? do you have a list? It would be very nice to know my options of what I want to purchase. I looked at the specs and read them but I would like a more detailed list if that is possible? Thanks for your time.
No for sure not it is half the size, but there are chassis for mini-14.
Administrator, why is it that you allow all of the lies about me posted by The Rain Maker to remain?
Because you’re a freak who won’t go away.
Administator, That is F***’n Hilarious!!!!! Please leave those post up! Vinegar&H20 Man has to learn a lesson…………..the internet world is really sick of his opinions! This guy is really off his meds! Baahahah!!!!!
For the money, just get a real system – a Scar 17. The price difference is modest compared to the gun you will have.
I heard you got one for free when you were a Distributor……………why didn’t you lighten that one up??? H20man the know it all………….the all wise M14 poser. Is it true you were a draft dodger?????
Are you not the guy that changed you grip out because you had diffaculties changing your mag???
there should be a law against allowing tards from owning firearms. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMT0nEH6gCc&feature=plcp the rogue is for professionals………not keyboard commando’s with vendetta’s.
Mag changes for the rogue……….and mine are faster then this guy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMT0nEH6gCc&feature=plcp
Rumor on the street is you run from everyone, on a face to face bases……..hiding behind your keyboard!
by the way, Dino is holding a contest for mag changes………and I’m going to win! H20man gives himself way to much credit……….did sage Lighten there chassis because of your input??? Ya, right. The Mod O was so darn heavy and off balanced no one liked it. Maybe H20man can solve Sage’s other problems?
The fact is that you don’t know me and you have never met me.
Rumor on the street is that The Rain Maker is one of JTach’s shills… his input is tainted.
Traveler 1550 amen to what you said. Semper Fi 68-91
I see the point of the old Corps guys, I love an original M14 or M1 Garand myself, USMC 77 – 98 But for the street fighting for which this application is designed I have to say I love it! and I am willing to bet our guys over there in the sandbox will be loving it too. If the boss lady would let me I would be melting the credit card right now.
Mark, we love the Rogue……….more of them are making it over, but only in special teams. this thing kicks so much ass in a Helo! On full auto it’s just plain crazy………controllable, but crazy!
Yes send me the Juggernaut Rogue now and the FnH USA 45cal I need them in my bunker now or sooner, Im sure congresss will Ok this requisition immediatly. I am a %100 disabled heavy combat veteran of Viet Nam era. Love the bullpup design, love it. send immediatly. thank you . Semper Fi. Bob
Amazed 101-506,
You’re wrong.
This thing serves no practical purpose whatsoever. It’s another off the wall product looking for a niche. While I can see the practicality of a bull pup rifle, this thing is too large to be realistic. In addition I see a whole lot of proprietary garbage to hang off your rifle, and then wait 6 weeks to get a replacement part when it breaks. Someone needs to build a standardized, spare part ready bull pup rifle in some sort of intermediate rifle cartridge. I think more folks could get behind that. I was an SDM for a spell in the Army and used an M21 sniper rifle, and I can’t see this solving ANY perceived issue with an M14 or M1A. From experience, if you want to clear rooms or work house to house, and intermediate rifle or handgun cartridge is the way to go. A full house battle rifle cartridge is useful for battlefield work, and distances beyond the 200m threshold.
I’m just glad the addition of two pounds was completely and throughly emphasized in this story!
The merit of a M1A/M14 as a battle rifle come from the extended range capability of the 7.62 cartridge. Chopping these rifles down to the size of an entry weapon makes no sense. Ever hear of an AR stlyle rifle in a carbine length????
If I had $2000 to toss around, I might try this. Bullpups are great for getting an and out of vehicles and close quarters combat. .308 is kind of a hefty round for a PPD CCB type weapon. Until I get to see how it shoots to 500-800 yards or more I think I would rather buy something else. The kits looks well executed, and well designed, but maybe not for me. I love the old M1A and especially my old .30-06. I still think I will keep the wood on both my .303 SMLE and M1A Garrand(s). I have a Springfield Armory .308 M1. It will sty as it is too. If I win the lottery I shall be back to check this out! Until then I shall take my usual stance and see how it does over time. I still carried the 9mm or .40 S&W Hi Power until 2003, then went to the Sig 228-229 and have a .357 Airlite for back up. I wish ATFE would let me machine my own stuff.LOL I have a very strong aversion to prison, so I have to stay legal.
Very interesting, but I wouldn’t bet my life on it. I’m very skeptical of after market bull pup set ups for good reason. They all have been full of fail and a complete waste of my hard earned dollars. That said, this one will go in the tacticool file and I’ll use the extra 9 c notes on another 1911 or AR
I’ve looked at several other conversions of the M-14/M1A, why can’t anyone figure out how to do a drop-in without removing sights? Also you don’t mention how this would work on a standard length rifle? Since I qualified as a USMC Rifle Expert in 1965, and survived Vietnam, why would I want to pack more weight around that wasn’t AMMO?? In a fire fight how can you use stripper clips to reload a magazine with this Bull-Pup System?? The modern pistol grip platform on my M1A would be nice to try, but anything everything that I see available has a price tag that in way to high!? Some things seem better left alone?! “IF IT ISN’T BROKE, WHY FIX IT??”
S/F Warren, USMC 65-69
I remember seeing the prototype of this thing in California in 2008 at the West End Gun Club when we were doing some fam fire with 416s. It was tan with a straight trigger and honestly pretty fugly at the time, but then again it was a prototype. I remember the guy was pretty cool and was asking some questions of me as to the applicability of his kit. I was honest and told him that I didn’t think that in my realm it would get much traction as the SCAR was about to come on line and that personally, I didn’t particularly care for a 7.62 assault rifle as the follow up shots took too long and the ammo was heavy. Now I’m not gonna get in some dumb argument with you “consol commandos” over 5.56 vs. 7.62. I have and still do carry both based on the requirement. However, in regards to “Assault Rifle” engagement ranges (>500m), I have had no complaints when using the MK262 MOD 1 round. In regards to both the Juggernaut and the Rogue, in my opinion they have zero military applicability. Trust me, I’m sure there is an E4 out there somewhere who bought one and slapped it on an M14 and I’ll even go so far to say that there may be a guy or two in Group who sported them because they were free. However, they are both heavy and are probably sought after more by LEOs and Gamers who wanna look like Halos Master Chief. A question to both companies though… Why it the top rail so flipping high?
I just measured my Rogue………..center bore to the top of the picatinny rail is 1.75″ How do you think that’s any higher than an m16 with iron sights and carrying handle???
Because it allows a great, repeatable, comfortable check-weld using BUIS (Troy’s in my case) or red-dot (Aimpoint M2 for me). I’ve not tried it out with a true scope, but I’m sure the results would be the same.
I’ve had my Rogue for a few months now, the recoil is greatly reduced due to the lower bore axis, and yes you can butt stroke with it. The stroke is shorter and to the left, just make sure you don’t muzzel yourself and keep your finger out of the trigger.
I’d say its the difference between the girl you mom tells you to stay away from and the one she might approve of. One just makes you go through your money faster, either way they get it.
BTW… If you guys weren’t posers, you would know that the butt stroke has been replaced by the quicker, more effective muzzle strike.
Wow, I see a lot of posers on here talking shit about a weapon system they have never fired. If you self proclaimed experts ever tried this system, you would realize that the recoil feels comparable to the HK416. (Another weapon you haven’t fired because you’re posers) As for you who are whining like little girls about the weight, when the weapon is slung, the only weight you’re lifting is the barrel. Hit the gym.
amen Dave!
Yes, you can use m14 magazines in a Garand, IF it’s been modified to accept the magazines, and the chamber has been shortened for the .308 cartridge. What you have then is a BM-59. E-Sarco used to sell the kits to do that. WOnder if you could fit a full length barrel in there???
Guns America did a accurate and good review of this product…………….reader’s should pay attention!
THANK YOU GUNS AMERICA!!!!
I know that slam fires are (thankfully) very uncommon as long as chambers are in spec and kept clean, and good quality mil spec ammo is used. However, anything with a floating firing pin is potentially subject to these. Is the cheekrest in this bullpup chassis engineered to handle a blowout? (i.e. strong enough to direct an out-of-battery explosion away from the face? Just wondering if this has been tested and engineered into the product.
Thanks for any information you might have on this topic.
A slamfire doesn’t “blow out” it just fires a round.
A slam fire can cause a “blowout” because the bolt hasn’t rotated to engage the locking lug. Of course , this condition will not occur if the receiver bridge slot is in good condition. Stop arguing about nothing and learn how to inspect your weapon. If parts are out of spec, the weapon doesn’t get fired and the issue becomes moot….
I’m stunned that anyone who shoots an M1, M14, or M16 type system isn’t aware of (or doesn’t believe in) the reality of slamfires. Yes, they are uncommon, thankfully — but if you screw up, they can indeed happen.
Administrator: A slamfire normally occurs before the locking lugs are fully in place, thus resulting in the lugs shearing off — a catastrophic bolt failure that results in injuries and worse. Bullpups are most at risk, since your face is right next to the 50,000 psi of hot plasma and shards of metal coming your way. Check your ammo, clean your chamber, and read Kuleck & McKee’s book on this topic. And in the meantime, I’d really appreciate a serious answer to a serious question, if you have one to offer.
Alan: I hope you stay lucky. If you have a slamfire, the receiver bridge won’t save you from injury. I’m not trying to foment an argument. My question is simple: Did the manufacturer engineer the bullpup chassis for this type of failure? If not, personally I wouldn’t put it on my wish list for Santa Claus, but for you, whatever suits your fancy, have at it. After all, it’s your face and your eyesight.
Now, does anyone have something other than an ignorant, smartass answer to the question?
My friend had a out of battery fire year ago with a USGI m14………He nearly lost his eye. with that said, how would you like it………4″ directly in front of your eyes??? or under your cheek bone with a 3 layer blast shield???? both situations suck………check your primers and make sure they are seated below the case rim!
In my opinion, I believe Ken is correct in his statement regarding the cost factor. Between the purchase of the rifle and the kit, you have well invested into the $2500+ range. There are bullpups in that price range (or less) right out of the box (no assembly required). Not to mention conversion kits for the SKS, AK47/74, Saiga, and even the mini 14 or 10/22 for a quarter of the price. I would convert one of those rifles to a bullpup with no conscience, but an M14? Are you kidding? That has got to be a violation of some sort of commandment… I’m sure of it. Of course, this is just my opinion.
…. and to Mr. Admin: I do respect your oinion, however, I do not believe it’s an issue regarding dollars and cents… just sense, common sense. Money is not the issue here. I could easily afford this conversion. However, we are talking about a firearm that’s a part of “American” history…. and should be valued as such…. and once again, that’s just my opinion.
Brian, You might Add that you do the marketing for SRSS……………I can’t believe that you have the Nerve to come on the Juggernaut Review and solicit your products when it’s so inferior………you guys are really grasping for staws. You guys took me for 1200$……..I hope no one here falls for your cheesy sales pitch.
Thanks for the information. We generally don’t allow people to hijack posts and the references to it will be removed from this and other comments.
I waited over a year for my Bulldog…………….I was so disappointed with your product I ordered a Rogue, The Rogue chassis is superior in EVERY way……..Rich you should take a lesson from them and quit telling people that they copied you, because their product is leaps and bounds better……….AND SO IS THEIR CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!
I have yet to understand why 7.62×51 rifles have to be so flippin’ heavy – I can take the punishment but don’t want to tote around a 13-15 pound weapon (with optics, ammo,and a few acc’s) – my Sage EBR is great but it’s a behemoth to carry – this bullpup won’t be a pleasure either.
On another note, since it is now an in-line recoil gun did it seem to reduce recoil well?
Thanks for a good article – looks like you got some folks thinking.
RK
Recoil is negligible with this kind of weight. It could be a .300 win mag. and you could shoot it comfortably.
Why don’t you just buy the RFB from KelTec?
Is it ambidextrous???? If not, I’ll go with the Sage EBR.
Well OJake I think you will find that we all have respect for lifties, because they make great zombie bait LOL..
Only the ones with burn marks on their cheeks.
What we have here is a really good chassis in a bullpup design. The ejection port has to be on one side or the other if you are converting an established firearm. Of course the lefties can avoid this issue if they would just see a specialist and find that lost rightie gene. (Just kidin lefties) Then the complaints would be almost non exhistant except for the chronic complainers. I have a leftie friend who likes bullpups and has converted all his long gun shooting to rightie! He will tell you himself that he is as good or better than he was shooting everything as a leftie. It can be done kids! Kudos to JT for a design well done on a great old rifle. I will be buying a M14 barreled action from Fulton Armory and install it in this gorgeous stock. I don’t want to change the old battle rifles that have lived this long. Some of the old timers are better left alone!
Remember this one “this is my weapon this is my gun, this for killing this is for fun”, well no one is taking this to war so it is just for fun.
Not sure how many other kits are out there to do this (I’ve got a Shernic kit for my SKS on its way), but I love these designs, especially when they seem to be well executed as this and the Shernic both seem to be. While not an ideal solution compared to a dedicated bullpup design, they can (and as far as I know DO) answer particular shortcomings of the rifles for which they are built. Neither the the SKS nor the M14 have poor design. This is just another great option for something different and, for people so inclined, perhaps something more useful for their purposes. For those of you who don’t like it, don’t buy it, but don’t assume that your solution is the only solution for everyone else, either.
My 2 cents… 🙂
OK “Administrator”. I think you interject a little too much of your attitude, and not enough respect to people like George Scott. You treated him like a troll. And…Why don’t folks respect lefties? The issue is ignored here. It’s shunned away by remarks such as saying OW with a empty hitting you in your face. How would you like to be treated that way? Showing class and grace and being respectful would be nice.
Ugh what is this new world order of political correctness coming to? Don’t you have a neighbor to spy on?
right; see youtube george carlin ‘america, a nation of rats’
you’re right – I was just thinking never seen such a disrespectful and argumentative admin – you expressed your opine about the stock, let other folks express theirs freely
Ryan did your teacher use red pen to grade your tests in 3rd grade?
yes, but she was not a cynic – as they say, don’t dish it out if you can’t take it!
It seems that OJ has an acute case of “clitoris hurtis”………..he’s probably a democrat too!
Bet you can’t buy one in California, nor have the parts shipped there. According to Calif. LAW, it “LOOKS EVIL”!!
US Tactical actually sells a cali part for the M1A to make it cali legal and there is no reason why this stock would be illegal there, unless there is some kind of “overall length” rule.
I think the issue in California is that it has a pistol- type grip. According to my dad who live in Sacramento and talked to a gun dealer, you can’t own a rifle with a pistol grip.
That being said, as one who has never fired a bullpup ever, I would buy one of these in a heart beat… except I am left handed. That being said, I would have to ask, when the shell ejects, is the angle in which it comes back more severe than any other rifle or shotgun? I was looking at getting a lefty AR-15 until I was told that only 2 companies even make them and the one I wanted was outrageously priced. This gun is in the caliber I would like and from what i have heard about bullpups, would work nicely. Thoughts?
That’s not true! AR-15s are legal in cali with a bullet button. Colt is sending us one of their new cali legal guns.
He may have been talking about shotguns then. I will have to ask him about that.
Speaking as an unfortunate resident of Kalifornia, I can comfortably say that I have a ‘few’ pistol grip equipped firearms here and they are all still legal. The heart of the matter, here, is being able to carry high cap mags and being able to do fast mag changes. In order to keep a true pistol grip, mag capacity must be 10 (or less) in centerfire calibres and the magazine must not be able to be changed without using some sort of tool. So, as long as this design can have a ‘fixed’ magazine, it is golden in this state.
It’s the look that turns you off, silly. The butt stock looks like something off a 7-band armadillo. lol
That’s all I know, that’s all I say.
IMHO there is a tool for every job and everyone has opinions, good and bad. Why decry something that works for some and not others as long as it gets the job done. This bullpup like the New Ruger Gunsite Scout will be embrace by some, decried by others, who cares. If the tool gets the job done and saves lives along the way or makes someone smile I say keep being innovative. I for one prefer to adopt the methodology of using tools that work, and if a better mousetrap gets invented, all the better. We should learn from the past not be stuck init any more than adopting philosphies that all things old are bad.
As for too much power, depends on which end of the rifle you are on, and what kind of barrier you are trying to defeat, would suck greatly to have .223/5.56 ammo pinging off a door or light armor, when this might get the job done.
“Bring Enough Rifle – Bring many, and Make sure they are not all the same”
This is why Squads are mad up of varied armament and expertise.
Just saying 🙂
Rob in WV has got it right! amen brother.
i need a tissue.
your response cracked me up
This reply is not meant to be argumentative, but I have a question for you. When I initially decided to build one of these, I was all set to get a Bulldog 7.62. In fact, it was my first exposure to this idea and configuration. I stumbled on your site quite by accident and was VERY impressed with what I saw. A few months later when I was ready to buy the chassis, I found LOTS of negative stories and concerns on the net about the Bulldog 7.62. These mostly included stories of having to pay in advance and being told it was a couple months away from being shipped. These people stated they had waited months and never received anything and that the only individuals who had received them were reviewers and publishers. I looked but could find no one who had actually received one outside of that myself. Sure enough, when I tried to order one, I was told to pay in advance and I’d get it in a couple months. At that point, I went with the Juggernaut. Have these issues been addressed?
I haven’t heard anything like that about the Juggernaut.
I bought a Juggernaut. They had it in-stock and shipped it right away. This posting is for a “Bulldog 7.62” chassis which looks nearly identical to the Juggernaut Rogue. He’s posting this as an alternative to the Juggernaut. Based on my interactions with the Juggernaut folks, I have few concerns about them.
Rob we have fixed this problem. And this juggernaut Rogue is are Gen 3.It isn’t combat ready. We are selling a more improved system.Are generation 4 it is damn near perfect.
I’d DEFINETLY put that on your site. I just got little worried with everything I was finding on the boards about it. I called and was told about the two-month wait. It just made me nervous.
Rob, take it from me (I see combat regularly), the Rogue is badass, the gen IV has rubberized roof coating on it (probably from Lowe’s), it does not Take down without an allen wrench (the Rogue does) The trigger mechanism on the Bulldog is a debacle. adds about 3lbs to the trigger pull and Rich’s “Patent” OEM trigger safety sucks, simply put. You should beware of someone who wants you to send Check or money order in for a “Pre-Order”. If you do decide to buy a Bulldog, Make sure you use a Credit Card…….it’s your only saving grace. There’s a reason why US Tactical carries the Rogue……….it’s a great product.
About the only drawbacks to the bullpup design are that magazine changes are definitely different from what you’re used to and that the round is going off right by your head. As far as .308 being made to reach out and touch someone, okay. BUT… If the bad guy is wearing body armor, and you had your choice, would you go with 5.56 or 7.62 NATO? Go ahead and consider. I’ll wait. I have an Alexander Arms .50 Beowulf and I’d like to carry that but ammo is very expensive, very hard to find, and magazines hold about 11 rounds at best. I’m all about carrying the largest caliber I can efficiently manage. After all, big bullet make big hole. (Three tour Iraq vet.)
My Mag changes with the Rogue are just as fast (or faster ) as an AR…………the only draw back I see is having the ability to Butt stroke someone!
carry a kukri
Thousands of rounds through the RFB and not a single FTF. 1-1.5 MOA is routine with the 18″ barrel and bipod w/ 9x scope. Don’t notice much kick. Takes down easily.
My M1A NM with the EBR does .5 MOA with a 20X scope and bipod unless I start feeling guilty and clean it.
I think the RFB with a 22″ barrel and 3-15x scope would be a reasonable all-round compromise for the zombies.
That looks like the slickest thing since sliced bread. Do they or will they make one for a Remington 740 in .270?
Cool idea, but it looks bulky and heavy. The double trigger with a push bar design is just asking for slop and is just lazy from a design/engineering stand point. The top rail seems a little high for scope mounting as well, you want to be as close to the barrel as possible. Too much money and not enough design if you ask me, I’ll stick to my standard M1A and my AR-10 for 7.62 And for those of you asking for this with the M1 Garand, keep dreaming, that would require a side mounted scope and a giant hole in the top of the chasis to facilitate top loading which would be accomplished at the buttstock, what an awkward reload that would be every 8 rounds with an “en-bloc” clip flying who knows where? Although a 30-06 bullpup would be pretty awesome!
I think its pretty sweet. i loved it when i seen it on fps. and another thing, guns and model airplanes go together well.(UAV). would love to see a nice set up for the sks though. that would be the ticket.
It is obvious that most of the detractors of the bullpup design are not familiar with bullpups themselves. Why do they continue to lump bullpup and SBR together? A bullpup has a FULL LENGTH BARREL. With a bullpup, the layout is different, not the barrel length. I currently own six bullpups, and nine ‘regular’ rifles, both in various calibers. The bullpups are clearly superior in most every way (functionality, balance, intuitive layout, checkweld, aim retention), and have just as good if not better accuracy as my ‘regulars’. The shorter body (not shorter barrel) allows for extended holding and aiming while mitigating fatigue. There is no change to recoil between bullpup and regular when using the same cartridge, and the shorter overall body makes them much easier to sling (especially while traversing various and adverse terrain). This Juggernaut seems to be a perfect compliment and improvement to an already reliable and respectable rifle.
It is obvious that most of the detractors of the bullpup design are not familiar with bullpups themselves. Why do they continue to lump bullpup and SBR together? A bullpup has a FULL LENGTH BARREL. With a bullpup, the layout is different, not the barrel length. I currently own six bullpups, and nine ‘regular’ rifles, both in various calibers. The bullpups are clearly superior in most every way (functionality, balance, intuitive layout, cheekweld, aim retention), and have just as good if not better accuracy as my ‘regulars’. The shorter body (not shorter barrel) allows for extended holding and aiming while mitigating fatigue. There is no change to recoil between bullpup and regular when using the same cartridge, and the shorter overall body makes them much easier to sling (especially while traversing various and adverse terrain). This Juggernaut seems to be a perfect compliment and improvement to an already reliable and respectable rifle.
The transfer bar is junk. It needs to be re-worked and designed properly. The trigger pull is like shooting a water pistol! Add’s an extra 2# to the gun, $900 for the stock it’s self, just to have the look of the BullPup, The trade off’s are not worth it!
I thought the transfer bar and double triggers were cheesy too, seems like they cut corners with that one. How about a little engineering fella’s? For that price they can fabricate a decent trigger. Cool design, but not enough thought put into it for that price.
James, the transfer bar on the Muzzle lite are Junk……….The Rogue is Really, Really nice. Your water pistol comment is simply not true. Juggernaut got it Right!
in a word: Meh!
I’ll stick with my MSAR STG-556 for now.
I agree, stick with firearms that were originally designed to be a bullpup. Also ambidextrous…
What a waste. This crap is getting out of hand, and reminds me of that Mossberg 500 chainsaw, just because you can, does not mean you should
IMHO, .308 is a not preferable for an SBR or bullpup. Great for full sized battle rifle to hit something out to 1000 yards, but thats not the playground for bullpups and SBR’s. I watched the Kel Tec RFB being fired on Youtube and decided I would wait to see what they come up with in a smaller caliber. Too much recoil and noise right in your face for my liking. Kel Tec says there are no plans for one in 300BLK, but I hope they change their minds. I have a 300 Blackout AR, and its the perfect caliber for an SBR or bullpup. Same recoil as a .223 with 7.62 ballistics out to 450-500 yards. Plus as mentioned previously this on is a no go for lefties.
If it’s not good as an SBR, what if this system were used to trim some overall length off a battle rifle? Would that work?
IMHO, wrong caliber for the purpose. In my mind, SBR and bullpups main advantages are shortness and maneuverability for the purpose of CQB. If you are using 7.62×51/.308 in an SBR or bullpup, at 200-300 yards or less it doesn’t give you much advantage, if any, over other 7.62 rounds with less bang behind them. Thats why in my opinion the 300 Blackout is the perfect round for SBR and bullpup use. Close to medium range its equal to 7.62×39 ballistically and better than .223 with superior knock down capability, being a .308 bullet. For work over 300-400 yards, you shouldn’t be carrying an SBR or bullpup regardless of caliber.
I think making a battle rifle short like this is an excellent idea. If you are providing long range fire support, this allows you to use the same weapon during displacement as you do to bring your long range capabilities to bear, thus reducing your load. Fits perfect in a squad DM capacity.
Jason B. – I’m a big fan of 300 blk however, the ballistics are pretty nice only within 200 to 250 yards; not 450 to 500. A .308 bullpup with 18″ barrel is needed to really reach out to those distances and beyond with a flat trajectory.
I think It’s an awesome design and welcome to 2012. This is perfect for a polytech build and mounting a scope, light, foregrip, etc is as easy as 123. It’s brilliant.
Very cool, but what about us south paws is always a valid issue, so, …. were waiting…
one of my crew members has one and he shoots it left handed……..he milled down the OEM charging handle…..the brass usually is ejected at 1-2 o’clock…..He has no problems, and loves his
What about all the exposed action on the right side where a lefty needs to cheek it? It just doesn’t seem right. Not to mention there is always the rare chance of a cartridge exploding with all that exposed interior right next to a lefties face.
Mr. Administrator:
When, unfortunately not in my life time, are we going to get out of this “cute tactical, cute at the range” idea? Yes, it may have some utility for SF people and perhaps LE, but beyond that it is as useless as teets on a bore pig. The anti-gun people will beside them screaming about “one” usless “assault” weapon in civilian hands. We have got to get life in this country.
Maybe model airplanes is more your lane George. We luv guns and gun toys here bud. Could it be maybe just you who needs to get a life, or maybe get some counseling to escape your PC brainwashing.
Haha! My words exactly!!
George, the 2nd Amendment tells us “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
that means, If it servers no purpose other than making a loud obnoxious boom……..I can own it!
…seems us lefty’s are left out yet again. No way I’m eating a hot brass lunch.
Perhaps they’ll refine the build to allow ambi discharge.
My $.02
What about lefties? At least the MSAR can be switched.Dam draconian inventors
What about lefties? At least the styer can be switched.Dam draconian inventors
We Just milled off the OEM charging handle……….we can shoot it with no issues and because the nature of our business, we are making a brass catcher…….we plan to sell the design back to Juggernaut…….look for it in the next 3 months.
monumental development! why has’nt somebody done that, decades ago?!
If money was no object and had plenty of it to burn, this looks like a fun toy to take to the range
Mine is being worked on now by my gunsmith. Here’s how you bring the price WAY down: get a Polytech or Norinco M1A and have your smith cut it down to 16″ then thread the end for a .30 Vortex flash hider. Now you’re at $800 or so for a good rifle (read the reviews on these Chinese clones) you won’t cry about chopping down. Add the extended mag release and extended mag catch then you really have an awesome CQB weapon that’ll shoot through cars! Another great addition is Veltor mod pod legs. They fit great on those side rails and fold nicely out of the way.
I am disappointed to see people saving a little bit of money just so they can support the Chinese economy and the buildup of the Chinese military.
Seeing as I got it from a friend who bought it in 1992 and simply needed the money, I look at as though I helped HIM. Assuming something is a “wonderful” thing. You get to make up all kinds of stories in your mind and prejudge people. Besides, I don’t think China has sent any over here since about that time anyway. One must get them off sites like Guns America. Thanks for your concern.
Well I dont see how recoil would be any worse in this bull pup then in its normal configuration. I like that it makes it lighter and more compact. I have fired sniper rifles in a bull pup stock and had no change in accuracy. I think its more about what looks good to you then function in this situation. I personally would like to put my national match in this stock and see for myself if there is a down side to this.
This is the Bulldog .762 developed by Sgt Richard Cabral. I have one in his green paint scheme. He used to offer it in black, sand and green. I guess he licensed his design to this group or maybe it’s a subsidiary. He has sold some to Special Forces who have been using it in Afghanistan. They seem to like it and have asked for more as far as I know. I paid $1200.00 for mine so I’m a little miffed. But, then again, what’s a couple hundred these days anyway.
I have it set up with flip sights as well as Larue detachably mounted long distance scope and a CQB scope. I love that thing. It’s like carrying an M4 carbine with a canon instead of a .22. Canons are necessarily heavier. It is a heavy rig but virtually indestructable.
Craig we didn’t licensed are stock this is a copy.
Oh that’s right….left handers need not apply….
Not really it has ambi charging for sure, and you just have to train yourself to not say ouch every time the hot brass burns your cheek. In a life or death tactical situation you don’t want to keep saying ouch every time you fire.
Craig, I had Both the Bulldog 7.62 gen IV and the Rogue……..Kept the Rogue, sold the Bulldog 7.62 on Craig’s list and never looked back………..The Rogue is truly a “Professional grade”, piece of equipment. I could never get the Trigger safety to work on the Bulldog…….and I just couldn’t get past the spackel paint they used on the rear panel. GO Rogue, you won’t be disappointed.
that is a badass gun if you dont mined send me pictures and prices so i can see
Holy crap. Talk about your basic anti-zombi weapon…..
When you going to make it for the M1 GARAND 30.06?
I will be waiting.
Thanks
Where is your empty clip going to go with your cheek snuggled over the action?
This set up offers nothing new that you can’t get with the Kel Tec RFB but the RFB will cost about $1,000 less. The M1A will cost you baseline about $1,600, add this stock system for another $900 and you will be looking at somewhere close to $2,500 without an optic. If you are willing to spend the money, buy an RFB. Ken
And the KelTec is truly ambidextrous since it’s forward ejecting. Leftys hate bullpups for a reason…none of us like a hot brass facial.
Other than having a gun that works every time. My experience with KelTec has been 50/50. The P3AT jams often and I have tried several Ammo manufactures. Have 3 other 380 pocket carry back ups none of which ever fail me, but that is another story. Bought a new Sub2000 in 9mm, broken ejector out of the box. Waited for replacement parts and sold it. Lost a $100 and learned a valuable lesson.
The more I read the more tempted I am to get a platform to buy this conversion Bullpup for. Gotta have one!
Good work Mr. Admin. Your words are wise and true.
I’ve had the same experience with Keltec – out of the box failures. Sub2000 (Glock .40) failures to feed and eject, PLR16 failures to feed, RFB bad disconnector resulting in a “no-go-boom” situation. In each case a short trip to Cocoa (FL) paid for by Keltec cured the issues. On the other hand, the pistols, P32, P3AT, and P40 have all functioned flawlessly. I carry the P3AT as my BUG, and sold the P40 for a nice profit when they quit making them. (Too much kick for me, anyway…)
Some of Kel-Tec’s products are great. Some, not so much. I had a P3AT and a PF-9, as you mention, it wasn’t anything that I’d keep or use. On the other hand, I had a Kel-Tec SU-16, and that thing shot just s well as most any AR-15 that I have, nd I have a couple top-end AR’s. The Kel-Tec RFB is well designed, and I woudn’t hesitate to buy one. I’d also love to get one of their KSG Bullpup 12 Gauge pump. It has a bottom eject design with dual tube magazines that hold 14 rounds. Their small, low-end composite pistols like the P3AT and the PF-9 9MM will beat your hand to death, but their long guns seem quite nice.
True, but with an M1A (depending on the manufacturer) you get a higher quality firearm. I’m just not sure I would invest more than a couple hundred dollars on a product from Kel Tec. My buddy has sent his PF9 in a dozen times for problems.
I did! and I love my RFB. However, still awaiting my Trijicon ACOG optic with the 308 drop reticle. Once I get that, it will be complete.
So people (none of these purest I guess) like the Bullpup design. It is unfortunate the only two comments are so negative on a product that is clearly so progressive and designed well. You guys keep living in the past, others who like a modern design and quality product will enjoy this I am sure.
I considered buying a M1A1 to build this when I first saw it, but having several Bullpup platforms on hand figured I would wait to see if a kit come out for one of the guns I already own. Great looking product. I wish you much success and I am still tempted to buy it because it looks so GOOD!
Eh let em rant. They know they just can’t afford it lol.
Yes because we all know that cost is the primary factor in any firearm don’t we? Idiot. How the hell could you be an Admin at a Gun site and be that myopic?
The word myopic is above my pay grade sorry could you explain simpler.
Think he means short-sighted, but not sure what he means by that either.
I am curious about any inherent drawbacks in a bullpup design. Could traveler or salty elaborate on their aversion to this?
IMHO, if you want a SBR, the 762×51 is way too much power. For that kind of use, we need an intermediate 30 cal round, like the Russian 762×39. That will also drop the fully loaded weight down by several pounds. To me, the M14/M1A is for reaching out and touching someone, and not in a building stairway, whereas the Thompson and the grease gun were just right for MOUT, but useless beyond 100 yards.
300BLK is suppose to be pretty good.
Muzzelite makes a bullpup conversion for the Ruger mini-14/30, although the transfer bar was a bit mushy for my taste. I restored my Ruger back to it’s original configuration. If you’re interested in the kit, email me.
Hiho Neil, What are you asking for the bullpup mini 14-30 setup? Give me your email and I might possibly be interested.
I’ve got the one for a 10/22 ,you are right, the way the trigger feels after the conversion takes a bit to get used to but it’s a great shooter once you do.
This isn’t a SBR. The barrel stays the same length. It just shortens the overall length of the weapon. It means you’re getting the same or similar accuracy (depending on the quality of the trigger you end up with this rifle mod) in a shorter package. It just moves the receiver and barrel back into the stock. It doesn’t shorten the barrel.
Joe, you are forgetting about applications which involve shooting through car windshields and Body armor, the penetration power of 7.62×51 at 500yds is superior to the rounds you mentioned.
Can I pay half with a credit card and the other half with an debit card.? Love the machine.let me know so I can order one live in az. Bullhead. Thx.
Daniel
Sure just give them a call.
Wow, heavy, ugly, bulky, AND expensive? Just to shave off a few inches in overall length? Where do I sign up?
I think I’ll stick with my EBR Mod 0.
Ditto!
I would have to agree with Traveler1550’s assessment. Chambered anywhere from .22 to 5.56, this would be a neat little rifle. In .308, it’s simply a waste of a great gun (M1A/M14) chambered in a great caliber. Maybe for their next project they could create a bullpup kit for a .300 Win mag or .338 Lapua? LMAO
You haven’t even shot it in this config much less, seen it live and up close. You base your opinion on nothing, just like the other clowns posting on a config they know nothing about.
Want to see some YouTube coverage on this.
Actually they already have made a bullpup of a .300 Win mag, .338 LM…all the way up to .50bmg for HTI, check out desert tactical arms. There is nothing wrong functionally or fundamentally with bullpup design, just not the status quo. Here is a vid on youtube of guys going back and forth with the GI version of the M14 and the Rogue version of the M14 at full auto. Might find it interesting on how the thing actually shoots.
they do make a bulpup .338.. desert tactical. and its badass.
CAN THIS STOCK WORK WITH THE OlD GARAND 30.06 ???
thanks Jack
no
Does it look like you can top feed it?
Hey Admin………Me and some SF boyz are going to make a 6.5 creedmoore version of the m14 Rogue…..you guys interested in doing a review???? email me for details.
Leave a round in the chamber or you’ll get a clip up the nostril.
Having been taught to shoot at 500 with a proper loop sling in boot camp I find this to be just another bastardiztion of a real combat weapon. Try a vertical butt stroke with this thing!!! Semper Fi 67-73
…and I thought you fought for the freedom of all; even gunsmiths. Go vertical butt stroke yourself.
My man is just being real. Doing that to a M1A is a shame in my opinion. So in fairness…. Go and get butt stroke yourself. Semper Fi 82-92
I would like to thank you for being a self-righteous Jackass. Now if you would kindly go neuter yourself, we hopefully won’t have to worry about your infection spreading too far.
And where’s the bayonet lug? I mean, surely keeping ancient, mostly ineffective modes of combat in the repertoire is worth having no advancement in firearms.
At the end of the day, having a battle rifle that’s more effective at what it’s designed to do will do more to bring you home alive than being able to club someone with it.
Really?! Dudes you’re talking about “Butt Stroking” each other. Are you from San Franfreeko ?
I never said anything about “butt stroking” anyone. You’re projecting, fella.
It’s a good thing people with your mind set aren’t responisble for designing weapons, we’d still be fighting with muskets. Just because you were taught something at boot camp doesn’t even remotely make it better or superior. There are many advantages to a bullpup design and it’s great to see people doing new things with old designs, I’d be willing to bet that the rifle in this configuration is much more balanced and stable, not to mention the fact that its the same rifle in a tiny package, a pretty good trade off to being able to perform a useless vertical butt stroke…
the rogue is lighter than the majority of the M14 chassis in it’s class………Including the SAGE MOD O, which is what American soldiers carry. IF YOU PLAY THE ROLE OF A DESIGNATED MARKSMEN, you will have a scope and will have to have a optics mount/riser to secure your scope on to the MOD 1. Because the rogue comes with a built it optics mount…….the weight difference between the two is about 8oz. If your screws vibrate loose on the MOD 1, you will loose your Dope and will end up re-zeroing, not to mention loosing your screws(which I have). The rogue solves these problems……and I would much rather sacrifice 8oz of weight for 12″ of length. The problem with these key board commandos are that they don’t know real life field applications. The biggest problem with Sage is having to break it down to clean it……..11 allen screws (that in the field end up lost), Re-zero when doing a full pm……..which sometimes is every other day, depending how many rounds you shoot. Locktite will only take you so far…….The allen screw holes waller out because they are aluminum and the chassis really is only good for range use, not field use.The M14 is a very,very violent rifle with lot’s of vibration. Pressing steel inserts into the SAGE chassis might solve this problem. I won’t even get started on the Harmonic issues SAGE has………The rogue doesn’t need a harmonics screw……..It unitizes the gas cylinder with the barrel, making for a far improved M14.
Rain Maker, do you come up with this BS on your own or are you repeating what you were told by Dino & company?