  We found the perfect AK-47 mount and scope combination for this article. If you have been wondering which AK mount is the best, for sure it is the system you see here from Texas Weapons Systems. For a scope, we pick the new CMR from Hi-Lux called the AK762. The reticle is set up specifically for the ballistics of the AK-47 cartridge, out to 900 meters. More than 200 yards is probably useless with the gun we tested here, but it is as good as it gets for the Romanian AK-47.
 If you look at the bullet drops of the 7.62×39 compared to the 110gr. .300 Whisper, they are nearly exact, which makes this new CMR the goto scope for that caliber as well as the .300 Blackout. This is for the supersonic versions of course, as both of those cartridges were created for subsonic loads.
 We thought that maybe some brass case ammo would help this Romanian WASR from Century Arms perform a little better, but it just isn’t an accurate gun.
 The Texas Weapons Systems mount replaces the dustcover and rear sight on your AK-47. Between the front dogleg stabilizer and the precision machined realease button hole, there is no wobble whatsoever.
 Click to make the picture bigger and it will show you the way the reticle works. You can zero the gun at 32 meters, which is also 200 meters, and you have perfect holdovers up to 900 meters. The outside and inside circles, as well as the dot and the holdovers are illuminated as well.
 The 300 and 400 meter holdovers can also be used as shot boxing range extimators, similar to the Leatherwood scopes we have reviewed here.
 Our best groups at 100 yards were like this, 2-3 inches across and strung vertically. You would think that once the gun heats up, the stringing would lessen, but no, five shots consistently strung up and down. Granted, they are all “center mass” at 100 yards, but compared to an AR it is a completely different class. We have used a CMR on a Stag AR and got ragged holes at 200 yards.
 The S&B ammo shot a little more of a round group (that round on the right is not in this group it was probably from zeroing another rifle later). The five shots you see here are in about a 5″ circle, again all center mass, but at 200 yards some would be off the target completely.
 The Hi-Lux CMR AK762 is a 1-4 x 24 illuminated reticle scope with a 30mm outside tube. It is made in China, and can stand toe to toe with scopes costing twice as much. The turrets are zero referenced by loosening these two screws, then zero, then tighten them back down. With the ranging in the reticle itself you don’t need to turn turrets for windage and elevation adjustments. It can all be done with holdovers and unders on the fly inside the CMR reticle.
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Texas Weapons Systems Gen-2 AK-47 Rail
https://texasweaponsystems.com/id10
Hi-Lux CMR AK762 1-4×24 30 mm. Riflescope
https://hi-luxoptics.com/cmr-ak762
$436 on Optics Planet:
https://www.opticsplanet.com/cmr-ak762
$436 Natchez Shooters Supply:
https://www.natchezss.com/cmrak
All other things being equal, the AK-47 nearly always wins on price. Therefore most of us end up with at least one AK in our gun accumulation. The problem is, all things are not equal with the AK. They are known for reliability that exceeds ridiculous, but they are also known to be horribly inaccurate. If you follow our exploits here at GunsAmerica, you probably read our recent underwater, in the mud test of a high end AK from Century Arms called the PAP, but most of us out here have the inexpensive, garden variety Romanian AK-47 that generally retails for well under $500. These guns are the poster children for no matter what reliability, but they also are known as “spray and pray” guns, though the parameters of spray and pray would vary depending upon who you ask. We have tried to scope the AK-47 with one of many not ready for primetime scope mounting systems over the years, and they are always a disaster. But times have changed. You aren’t going to get anything like good accuracy out of an AK-4, but with the right mount and the right scope you can get accuracy good enough for just about any self defense situation, and even 3-Gun and other tactical rifle competitions, provided the targets aren’t too far away. For this article we review the highly rated rail/scope mounting system from Texas Weapons Systems, $139.99, and the Hi-Lux CMR scope with a new AK762 reticle, $436, which is special made for the ballistics of the 7.62×39 AK-47 cartridge. This combination delivered acceptable accuracy for an AK-47, and is a platform that is as hardcore as the AK-47 itself.
The problem with most scoping systems for the AK is that they are not solid. The PAP we reviewed came with a scope rail mounted on the dust cover, and though the rifle is very well done, that dust cover rocked back and forth with hand pressure. The PAP is more accurate than your run of the mill Romanian AK, but under recoil that wobbly dust cover isn’t going to cut it. There is also a sidesaddle mount for the AK, and there is even a Romanian mount that fits the sides of these Century imported guns specifically. None of them are solid, and you can feel the wiggle as soon as you go tighten the scope ring bolts. Recoil isn’t heavy in the AK-47, but bang jiggle isn’t going to give you the best performance out of the gun.
An alternative is the type of setup popularized by the “scout rifle,” which was pioneered by the famous gun writer Jeff Cooper. This entails mounting a scope on the top of your forend, far away from your eye. Don’t try to buy a regular scope for this. The eye relief on a regular scope is meant for the back of the receiver, so you won’t see even close to a full sight picture. You need to buy a long eye relief, or “scout scope,” which are made by several manufacturers. I personally don’t like the scout scopes. They don’t have the wide field of view that you get with a good red dot in the forward position, and while they may give you more situational awareness in close quarters battle, the reticle is too far away from your eye to give you your best long range shot. On the AK-47 it doesn’t matter that much, because you really are splitting hairs for no reason. There is no such thing as an “accurate” AK-47, so it all boils down to what you like. I like rear mounted scopes.
We found the Texas Weapons Systems mount after a lot of internet research as to what people liked and didn’t like. Google around and you will see the comments yourself. The whole premise of the TWS mount is that all you need to provide a stable platform on an AK-47 is a stable platform, so they made one. All AKs are a little different, but they all fall within the same tolerances, and those tolerances are very loose. Tighten up those tolerances, lock the whole thing down, and viola, you get a stable platform. Take a look at the pictures of the TWS mount. It is just a standard dust cover with an extra dogleg that attaches to the rear sight base on the AK. TWS supplies you with a new takedown rod, and the button on the end of it exactly matches the takedown button hole on their dustcover. You wouldn’t think something that simple would work, but it does, and it is solid as a rock. As AK mounts go, the Texas Weapons Systems mount gets six out of five stars. Don’t waste your money on anything else.
The CMR AK762 is an interesting idea from our friends at Hi-Lux/Leatherwood. It is just like the CMR you have seen in a couple other articles here, but the reticle is set up for the ballistics of the 7.62×39 cartridge. If you are a regular reader here, you know that we have reviewed several of the Hi-Leatherwood products, and no, it isn’t because they pay us to review them (like the print magazines do ). Hi-Lux is just are a little more on top of the internet in the optics world, and the Usual Suspects have been slow to get us product. So here we are with yet another awesome product from Hi-Lux, and this one is extremely well thought out, but maybe overkill for the AK-47, just due to the limitations of the gun. We will see this scope again, however, because the ballistics closely match the 110gr. .300 Whisper from Hornady, as well as some .300 Blackout loadings.
For the AK, and other cartridges with a similar ballistic curve (see the charts in the pictures), the AK762 reticle on the new CMR gives you holdovers for distances out to 900 meters. That is generous for the AK cartridge, but with the accuracy we experienced, even 300 meters is generous for an AK. Firing at a man, or even a Jeep sized target at 300 meters is a crap shoot with an AK, sorry to say, but with potential something short of minute of broad side of a barn for accuracy, 900 meters with what is essentially a glorified pistol cartridge isn’t happening.
The scope itself however is genius. Take a look at the picture we have here of the reticle. If you click to make it bigger you will see the range estimation and framing options right there within the crosshairs. In the illuminated center array you have MRAD/Mil-Dot measurements in 1/2 Mil increments from 1-4 Mils, and a full scale up to 40 Mils. You also have on the right a series of ranging crosshairs to frame a 19″ section to estimate range with no math. If you zero the scope at 32 meters and check it at 200, you have an exact point of aim using holdover in the reticle out to 900 meters. The 30mm tube on the CMR is bright and clear, and the sharpness at the edges, as well as the eye relief and 1MOA illuminated dot are the quality of scopes twice the price. I don’t think that I would ever tell anyone to go out and get an AK-47 for anything but close quarters battle type of shooting, and certainly not for 3-Gun or any kind of competition, but if you are stuck with an AK-47, the Hi-Lux CMR AK762 scope with the TWS mount will make the most of it. At 1-4x power, you can use it as both a both eyes open, illuminated red dot, as well as a long range precision riflescope.
We thought that maybe buying higher quality, brass cased ammo would help in the accuracy department but it did not. The brass ammo shot better than the steel case, but still not even close to 2 or 3 MOA, which you can beat with a paintball gun these days. There are some very serious AKs out there from Krebs Custom and some other small custom shops, and some of those purport to exemplify real rifle accuracy. We have yet to try one, but my feeling is to tell people to just go buy and AR instead. On the run of the mill AK-47s we have tested, even with the rock solid TWS mount and extremely high quality CMR scope, the gun is just hopeless. We’ll be back soon to try a Saiga maybe, and there is an old Norinco kicking around the safe that might have better results, but though we couldn’t speak more highly about the TWS mount and Hi-Lux scope, so far the AK-47 itself is a bust.
Putting This Gun Together
 If you order the Texas Weapons mount, the most confusing thing is how do you get the rear sight off. It sounds confusing, but just do what they tell you to do. Put a screwdriver on the back and pop it with a mallet or hammer. It just falls out.
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 The sight comes right off and you can save it in case you want to put it back.
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 The pin that holds the dogleg from the TWS mount in your front sight hole is hard to get in if you can’t get the leaf spring to come out. We were unable to get ours out, so had to compress the dog leg down to slide the pin in. There is a spring clamp that holds the spring in place.
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 The propreitary takeown button on the TWS mount doesn’t fit the slot for it in our WASR, so we used a belt sander to thin it some.
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 We just needed a little touch up on the sander for it to slide in easily. You don’t want to make it too thin for a solid fit.
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 The forend is from Leapers/UTG, and it comes with the rail covers, unlike the MAKO forend shown here next to it.
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 It is easy to put on the front forend, but you have to know what you are doing. First you put up this lever and remove the top.
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 Then you flip up this tab to remove the bottom.
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 The gas tube twists off the wooden handguard, not entirely easily.
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 The replacement parts screw together, and hold themselves in place.
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“Stuck with an AK”??? My Arsenal SAM-7 (with a Tract 3-9x) will put a bullet through your eye at 200 yards….over and over and over. I wouldn’t trade it for any battle rifle in the world. You’ve been buying junk and labeling an entire rifle class based on its results.
same here rico
same here rico
wow seems most are all out haters of the ak…I don’t get it. I bought me a Romanian ak, I couldn’t be happier,dead on accurate with iron sites at 125 yards.im curious to see what it can do with a scope on it..anyhow to each their own .
Lol for real. I was pinging a man sized target with iron sights at almost 250 yards with Iron Sights. Usually got a good hit about half the time and was extremely close on all the rest. My friend who makes/customizes M4’s was sighting his M4 in and he was missing FAR more than I was. Disappoints me this guy says “theres no such thing as an accurate AK.” like get real dude… If I can ping targets all day long at 250 yrds with Iron sights, I’d consider that pretty fucking good, and I’m not even that proficient with my AK. Ive shot it probably less than 10 times…This guy is a joke…
TWS is a good idea but the wrong material… AKs are meant to take years and years of abuse and keep running like a watch.. that cannot be accomplished with a cover made of aluminum and I will tell you why. First off I am an aircraft structures mechanic and work with primarily aluminum and the biggest problem with planes is corrosion due to dissimilar metal contact (aluminum and steel) they do not like each other, one is an anode and the other is cathode… basically they break each other down. the next problem with aluminum is it has very low memory (springiness) so the tab to stop the side to side wiggle and hold it firmly to the receiver will NOT last long. and last aluminum is very porous and impregnable so powder residue and pieces of steel casings that we all run through our AKs because its cheep and works well will also contribute to the breakdown of the inside of the cover. and the only other dogleg option we have is parabellum armament AKARS, which has its own set of problems but they are fixable with a little work and definitely the way to go
Great info thanks.
The sad thing is that my old WASR with bent rails and a rubbing carrier extension (be careful buying a parts-kit AK that you can’t field strip at the store!) will shoot better than that with irons. I used to have to manually cycle it, but hitting the 9 and 10 rings at 100m is no problem.
I have zero trust in an M-16 or AR-15! I was in Viet Nam in 1966, 67, 68 and was issued an M-16 with an aluminum bolt (the first model I guess). While trying to get use to a new rifle, I had never seen one before, the bolt froze in the receiver. Being made out of plastic and pot metal the gun wouldn’t have made a good club. I was issued a new one this time it had a steel bolt. I was doing the same thing, trying to get familiar with the gun, when the receiver warped and the selector was stuck on semi-automatic. That was the last time I carried an M-16. Everyone on the “A” team I was on carried M-2 carbines. Not just because of the unreliability of the M-16 rifle but for other reasons too. I called the M-16 the jam-a-matic. When I was in Viet Nam everyone had their cleaning rod taped to the side of the fore grip. It wasn’t taped there because everyone was a clean freak. It was taped there so in case of a malfunction they could ripe the cleaning rod off the rifle and use it to clear the chamber of a jammed rifle. So what good does accuracy do you if you have a rifle that won’t cycle? All you can count on with an M-16 is one round and then just pray. With an AK-47 you have as many rounds as you want-every time you squeeze the trigger it shoots. So, you be as accurate as you want with one round but I will opt for reliability every time. Typical infantry combat up until that time was 99% within 100 yards so the AK-47 fills the infantry roll nicely (that is what it was designed for not the rifle range). I also carry a Glock for the same reason. I learned my lessons in the jungles of Viet Nam. Where did you learn your lessons? Reading a book or talking to the Colt firearms people?
I have EO Tech sites on three different Saiga’s 7.62X51 super fast target acquisition.
7.62X39
223
If you want a long range 308, Go with the Remington 700 in 308. Very accurate and easy to custom load
Anyone that says a AK47 is not a battle weapon HAS NEVER FACED ONE. And you hope you never will……..
I own a Norinco MAK 90. (Stamped 1.5MM thk receiver)
I’ve modified it a bit. Tapco folding Stock, Tapco Pistol Grip, Hogue Forearm Grip, Tapco G2 Trigger Group, TWS Receiver Cover/Scope mount, Vortex SPARC Red Dot Scope w/ 2x mag adapter. It shots (5) round 2″ MOA all day long with Wold Silver Bear 124g SP Bulk Ammo. Bone Stock it was a 3-4″ MOA Weapon.
The TWS Receiver Cover/Scope mount is the future for Scope Mnt Aks.
Hi Andy
I to have a Mak 90 and want to know if the TWS gen2 fit your Mak without any mods?
I have a 7.62X39 Ruger Mini 30. I want to put a quality scope to target out 600 meters. I’m not sure what to look for. Don’t want to spend a fortune. Any recommendations?
The Hi-Lux is a great option.
I have a WASR 10/63. It is a newer one with the triangle stamped on it. If you do some research there are some good and bad (older) WASRers. What I don’t understand is why people complain about the AK. It is a 300 yard at most gun. Not a 400 plus yard gun. Buy a damn AR if you want that. Oh, I have one of them too.
Eric
Two years ago I purchased a Russian side high mount and a russian POSP scope from RUSSIA. I have TWO Century Arms WASR 10/63 AKM. I can shoot a fly’s butt hole at 200yds all day long with WOLF ammo. Reliable and Accurate with NO JAMS !!!!! 10,000 rds of ammo and I’m ready for ANYTHING that gets in my sights.
Good article – I was looking at a dust-cover mount and had settled on the TWS version before I found the ULTIMAK. It’s a gas-tube replacement with an integrated rail system and is made here in Idaho. To round out your integrated AK scope mount reviews please give them a shot. They point you primarily toward a red-dot so you can still use the iron sights looking through the lens, but I think a little modification (flip-down front sight and slightly higher scope rings) would give you a superior scout-scope type mounting platform.
Put that scope on a Sig Sauer 556R and you have a game changer, you have the 7.62×39 round but the scope is now on a rock solid platform made with quality parts. I own this set up myself and its my favorite rig, I own several AR variants and AK’s and the 556R is what an AK wants to be when it grows up.
Joe,
Never heard of your 556R…now it’s #1 on my want list. Seems to be sold out everywhere.
Muhjesbude,
Palmetto Gun Club…Summerville SC. Say when. By the way you missed the point. If I want to go to 300 m, I’ll bring my Accuracy International 308. Hit the # on the center of a golfball at 300 m. How about 800?
I recently purchased a Century Arms Polish Underfolder, at my age, the stock iron sights were less than useless. I installed an inexpensive but solid quad rail and mounted an M-2 Aimpoint and couldnt be happier with the results. I considered a dust cover scope mount, but felt this to be too unstable and perhaps unpractical for a rifle said to be incapable of producing tight groups. Recently started using Herters 154 Gr SP which groups quite well, 2-3 inches, considering limitations of the Aimpoint. At ranges of 300 yrds or less, would consider this to be a great round for medium sized game such as hogs, but have no 1st hand experiance.
The AK round works great on hogs.
Good Article though some of the Readers may have missed the point and that was finally a mounting sysem for an AK-47 Rifle. 5.56 Fellows always speak out but lets look at this from a different angle place 2 each 8′ x 8′ P.T. Lumber and look at slow motion as each round exits the 16″ of P. T. Lumber. Now granted a 5.56 is surgical but so is my Ruger SS Mini 30 with a Barska Sniper Scope, with rounds ranging from 37 Gr. Sabot’s, to 80 , 110, 122 and 150 soft and hollow points. Now I will take on a M 16 shoot out from what ever starting point you wish, what I have is very Surgical and does a lot more damage too…….23 cal vs 308 cal. The video of the bullets exiting the wood says it all. If you could have just one Gun only with limited resources to keep your weapon clean I know which weapon I would own, 7.62 x 39 at 100 meters or less is capable for Elk, Deer, Hog, and Man well a long ways off!!! Great Article!!
And last, but not least, is you John! You’re the easiest to straighten out and make my philanthropic advice day ashort close. (I used to charge huge bucks to ‘properly’ train and instruct all you experts but now i do it hoping that i can do some good and save lives. The epidemic Operational Bullshit is the deadliest of combat situations. A professional associate of mine thinks that the G or somebody is purposely infiltrating these forums and blogs to ‘disinformation’ gun owners so they have the tactical DISADVANTAGE????!).
John, first of all, WOOD, and its ballistic penetration performances are NOT people. Instances of a single .30 round penetrating through and through three men in a row and all three lived, two proceeding with forward combat immediately after being hit in the gut and leg. Other instances of a 5.56 bullet hitting the wall next to a fighter and a pin head sized piece of wall fragment hitting the eye of the fighter immediately taking him out of action. bullets coming out of the end of the block doesn’t say anything but ‘get the vacuum and suck up the wood chips. And lumber doesn’t shoot back. Rather than playing with ‘lincoln logs’, You would be better off spending your time and money practicing non static shot placement tactics and drills. Rapid fire quick-kill multiple target hits in the shortest possible time while flanking at trot speed. Thats what separates the men from the boys. The real CQB platforms from the ‘toys’
John, just so you could ‘edificate’ me back, Why did you choose the Ruger Mini-30 over an M-4? for about the same price? Even if you are having a covert love affair with the 7.62×39 round, there are many AR-15 ‘beds’ that chamber this round for the ‘penetration’ part of the sex? (by the way, Ruger now makes an AR-15 tactical platform. (doesn’t that tell you something?)
Come on guys…love your articles, but your not being fair to a great rifle. I can bust orange clays on a burm at 100 yds with my Arsenal SGL-94 + Aimpoint Micro T1 with 2 moa red dot, & multiple clays at that. Maybe 1 second b/t shots. Please review a decent AK. You’ll change your opinion.
Best!
Come on Michael, you DA Man on busting non moving clays @ 100 meters with an AK but i can do the same with my AR-15, Which I paid less for than you did for your SGL, but I’ll also stand next to you and do it out to 200 meters off my iron sights. And then if we sit down together on the bench and set the clays out to 300 m, I’ll handicap you with your optics by using my flip up iron sights only and i’ll bet you $100. per clay break, shot for shot. (you can afford it if you can buy price gouged AK’s LOL!) Read what I said above. Almost any rifle can be tricked out and souped up to do amazing performance. But that’s not what we are talking about here.
bet him people that can bust clays with iron sites at 300 m are as scarce as hens teeth.
Yep, for those of us in the real world, force multipliers are helpful. If you are the one guy on earth who can bust clay sized targets with irons in a combat situation, more power to you. Ill admit it’s not that hard in call of duty though. Maybe that’s what he was thinking.
AKs are “horribly inaccurate”?! I don’t think so… Maybe when you use the “spray and pray” method, like your average Taliban @$$hole(or LA gang member), but in even nominally competent hands an AK will do just fine in 99.9% of combat situations. Is an AR more accurate? Maybe… if it doesn’t jam on you first.
Big TONY! What might appear to facsimile a ‘spray and pray’ scenario to the untrained eye, might actually be a purposeful strategically and expertly applied suppressing firepower for tactical advantage. While, indeed, the AK platform has proven to be functionally acceptable in 99.9%–their predominance in most world combat speaks for itself, in the ‘nominally competent’ hands of those using it, i can prove–as i’ve done for a living for many years–that the AK percentages to ‘do just fine…’ will be nowhere near 99.9%.
Thats why we keeeeled them so easily in the Afghanistan and Iraq. They were only ‘nominally competent’ with their AKs. We were much better trained and had the superior M16s. Had these Taliban fighters been as well trained and skilled as our American soldiers, the story would have tragically been much different. Everybody seems to think that certain weapons have a mystique about them that makes them ‘better’ in a sense as to replace the true weapon in performance. Yourself. The so-called ultra-reliabilty of AK-47s seems to provide that often in legendary fantasy.
The actual facts are that AK’s jammed just as much for the same conditions or reasons as AR’s. Or any other combat weapon, for that matter. Of course, in a psuedo legendary mindset, one perceive that unless the hard reality of several combat and operations experiences transcending a generation of warfare was part of your resume.
Having said that, for the average doomsday vampire or gangbanger slayer, An AK would do ‘fine’ enough for them, as long as they weren’t stupid enough to pay more than you would for a good M4. And as long as you ween’t in a sustained running firefight where you needed to carry and fire through a lot of magazines.
When we were chasing the enemy It used to be a fairly easy shot when they were trying to switch AK mags and jammed the mag in the well. The last thought that went through their minds (preceding the 55 grain 5.56 bullet) said it all by the expression on their faces which, translated, said “Allah-damn! which i would have trained more instead of spending all that time on the fucking rug with my ass in the wind—and had an M-16!).
The moral of the story is that like Beer and Women, while there probably is no such thing as a bad assault weapon–cerainly not in highly practiced (noticed i didn’t say trained) hands, -and certainly an AK cannot be considered bad by any means, except for the few tactical deficiencies that might exclude them from being the first choice of most top pro operators—some assault weapons are just all around better than others. ESPECIALLY if they cost the same.
AK-47 killed a lot of GIs in Vietnam by “bare feet” guks.
That’s “gooks.”
Why would anyone go to the trouble of putting a relatively expensive scope on an inherently semi-accurate rifle? And why would you use a dust-cover replacement mounting system when you can get a rock-solid Barska side mount (what the rifle was designed for) for roughly half the price? A red dot on an AK or MAC is going to give you all the accuracy the rifle is capable of producing at a far cheaper cost.
Davidio and J.H.—yeah i agree. I alluded to similar logic in the past on these blogs. With prices coming down on ARs, especially if you have the skill to build a kit. The argument for an AK amounts to something else besides the basic requirements for an all around defense weapon. There’s really no reason anymore for why the far superior AR platform can’t be your primary go gun. I think it has to do with the propensity (some call it the bubba mentality, lol!) for people to fix or improve something that isn’t broken or worth improving. You, know, like putting expensive wheels on your average car thinking that this will make it go faster. And of course, someone will be more than willing to make money off of your ‘thinking’.
First of all, if you absolutely feel so much better with a scope on your AK, a top mount is the last one i’d choose after years of bubbing around with these things. Everything’s been tried already, including similar cover mounts to the one shown here. After a few hundred rounds, or one or two tactical exercises where you use the weapon to ‘cushion’ your dive to cover, it will not be ‘rock solid’ anymore. A military side mount base is the only way to go. (by the way, the side mounts originating from the bloc countries for AKs were not originally intended for scopes used for accuracy improvement. They were for NVDs. but when they did put regular scopes on them, they were compact ones set up to use no farther than 4 or 5 hundred meters.)
For the cost of this hi lux scope and mount you can put together a kit AR-15. And no matter how many whistles and myriad of stradia lines whack your eyeball when you look through it, it is nothing more than a knock off of an old Shepard version of a milradian set up with circles and the soviet bloc ranging graduations descending from the SVT/7.62/54R semi auto sniper rifle scopes. In fact, the ones adapted for the AK side mounts were very uncomplicated and easy to use. cross hair and 4 chevrons, and one side graduating stradia for ranges out to 4 hundred meters. place the neck and crotch between whatever fits, read the range, put the appropriate inverted V on center mass and shoot. Very rapid target ranging and acquisition. These scopes used to be going for only a couple hundred bucks including illuminated reticle. I don’t know if they still make them but now they have acceptable compact mil dot ranging cheapie scopes around the 100 dollar range that more than do the job for what an AK would merit. But in the reality world or pragmatic self defense application as opposed to plinking or real warfare, one would do much better with simply a dot or holographic sight to facilitate more rapid target acquistion over precision. Which brings the final argument to AK v. AR.
In most rifle cartridges used for warfare, ‘precision’ barrel accuracy generally becomes an advantage at ranges out passed maybe 300 meters. Korea proved that most combat shots were taken around 100 meters, even when the advancing/charging enemy could be aimed at passed 600 meters. Experienced soldiers simply realized, often the hard way, that it was almost impossible to hit even a slow moving target at long distance with iron sights, no matter how accurate your barrel was. So they waited until the enemy got under 200 meters, took aim and fired. Guess what? Even a ‘disgustingly’ inaccurate 3 or 4 moa AK or .30 carbine could still hit point blank on the enemy out to 200 meters from a practiced shooter with high hit probability, especially with rapid semi-auto follow up shots. Realizing this, the military opted for the trade off in mechanical reliability (looser tolerances and less accurate but cheaper weapons) for precision moa placement at distance for the common infantry mission. Thus requiring the average battle weapon to have a minimum moa standard of 3 (which often meant 4 or 5 with military ammo) for issue. Just for all you armchair experts out there’s info.
Translation: Fit the mission to the gun. Or get the right gun for the mission. Don’t try to ‘steroid’ out something that might not handle the job. AK.s were never even intended to be a battle rifle. (like M-14’s or Gerands) They were designed as an light individual assault weapon. (of the real kind). Very different strategies and performance requirements.
And while some ‘experts’ consider the 7.62×39 to be nothing more than a ‘glorified pistol round’ (head is shaking solemnly back and forth), one must keep in mind that no other small arms ammo in existence has the killing track record of this ubiquitous cartridge. When it was dirt cheap and Mak-90’s were a buck and a half compared to AR>s averaging over a grand everybody should have picked one up as a spare wrench. And they would still do more than a good job in skilled hands… which brings up the next reality we all already talked about on this forum. There’s a huge diff between ‘skilled shooting’ and learning to fight with a combat weapon.
But when considering the bottom line of cost. And balls to the wall all out best bang for the buck for serious firepower. Guess what again? Its out there, and its even make in America (I hope,lol) Its called the Kel-tec .223 Check it out? It will kind of surprise you what you’ll get for less than an AK these days.
And by the way, Mr. Administrator, that would be a good test article. I’m sure someone had to do it already, but maybe not? Get whoever makes to most accurate AK in 7.62x.39 and compare it to say…an average AR-15? Then maybe toss in the Kel-Tec .223 ringer and evaluate all factors for a ‘Best Bang for the buck’ conclusion??? Maybe you’ll get all our BP pumped up again like you did with the ‘Them v. us’ article. LOL!!!
This Hi lux scope and mount is definitely a bit ‘sticker shocky’ even for a a die hard bubbing affecianado.
You experimenting with “bubba” rail cover mounts probably doesn’t have much in common with a tws dog leg. It secures on 3 axis.
And while it sounds like you have a lot of experience with cheap crappy ak’s, this would not be out of place at all on a saiga or arsenal. You say the military figured out sub 3-4moa rifles is the way to go after Korea, well these high end ak’s are 1-2moa and still pack more pop than a .223, so enhanced sighting is definitely not obsolete.
A converted saiga with magpul stock, tws rail and a high qquality optic and fore end from MI is hardly “obviously inferior to an m16/ar).
Gotta update this……as I just noticed the price.. YIKES!!!!!!!!!
Thats twice what I just paid for a NIKON 223 BDC scope, granted, no christmas tree lights on the NIKON, but, I am not a great fan of battery powered scopes.
Lets see……My cost for the MAK back in the day…225 bucks, conversion parts, and Parabellum rail, all add up to about the cost of this scope alone.
IF, an AK was my PRIMARY and ONLY weapon, MAYBE, and thats a MAYBE with a grain of salt, because the whole idea of owning an AK for most folks, is that the gun is so cheap, you can also leave with lots of ammo, in this case, about 2000 rounds worth, for the cheese they are asking for this scope.
Gotta rethink my earlier comments…..
Interesting scope, I just put a Parabellum brand scope rail similar to this on my MAK 90, that has been re-eviled back to original configuration, with the intent to use in primarily, with a red dot sight.
The Parabellum mounts rear sight is so wide, that its almost useless now for open sights, for more than a backup, so, this scope may be a neat addition, not to mention, for my other side railed AK’s.
As for the WASR, well, you can’t get much lower on the AK food chain than that, and for use under 100 yards, in an urban environment, I’m sure it will work well. Why not slap this scope on a chinese AK or an Arsenal brand, to see what it will really do.
Do they make a TWS for a Norinco 84S? This is the Chinese 223 – MAK 92 Version. I just did not know if the TWS would fit my Norinco 84S or not. Thanks much
This is a wonderful mount system. The new Midwest Industries mounts are rock solid too.
I don’t know why people consistently take bottom of the barrel AKs and try and compare them to name brand quality ARs though. Get a converted Saiga or Vepr done by someone who knows what they are doing, Yugo, Polish, or Bulgarian and they generally shoot 2-3 moa without any tweaking. That is a good as any stock milspec non target AR carbine in the same price ranges. If you want a 1-1.5 moa AK, look into the new generation SIG 556Rs and spend the money on good ammo like you would with any other serious rifle.
Scoped at 100yrds and that’s your group? Why even bother? I’ve shot thousands of rounds with my M16 (army) and my personal M4 and never had a issue with the weapon itself. And at 100 yrs open sight I get 3in groups. I really don’t see why people buy these things.
I have a wsar whitch i have already done this but I put a 2.5×10 aimpoint scope ON MINE AND MY GROUPS ARE UNDER 1.5 SO I DONT GET IT WHEN I HEAR SOMEONE SAY THATS ALL THEY WILL DO!MINE WAS GREAT WITH OPEN SIGHTS BUT I DECIDED TO SEE WHAT IT WOULD DO WITH A SCOPE.DONT KNOCK IT TILL YOU TRY IT, IT MAY SUPRIZE YOU!!!! TO ME IT WAS WORTH ALL THE WORK ,I ALSO ADDED A FORARM GRIP WITH FLASHLIGHT AND LAZOR BUILT IN .YOU CAN DECK AN AK JUST LIKE YOUR AR NOW !AND CHEAPER!
Yeah i bought the texas weapon systems rail last year for my pap. It’s rock solid and way cheaper than paying someone to put a side rail on for you.
i agree,why would anyone put a $450 scope on an ak47,your better off with open sights if thats the best groups you can get,$450 buys alot of ammo,but there are alot of guys out there that just want to spend money for crap they dont need but just looks cool!
Tex, you’re shooting a glorified .22. The 5.56 round is ridiculously ineffective when compared to any .30 cal. chambering. The Delta guys NEVER select a 5.56 weapon. Ever. There’s a reason for that. They like to actually kill the people they shoot.
Will this work on a M70AB2 with folding stock?
They have a Yugo model.
Yes, I have the Yugo model m70ab2 and this mounting. And yes the rail cover has the cut out for the dust cover release button.
I am a little confused, you are showing a receiver mounting system but yet talking about a sight removal/forend with a scout type rail forward on the weapon. Is this part of package? Do I have to do this modification if I want a receiver mounted scope?
No it was just to show was is on the gun.
Odd review. But good enough to sell me on the scope and mount. It looks like from the pics that you did this review with a WSAR ak. Not good. Those things are so unpredictable its not really worth the trouble. However, I have a Yugo M70ab2 and I can get pretty good consistency out of it, and by that I mean Im able to hit a 16″ target at 300 yards more so than not. Having a scope like this would seriously help the cause. Thanks man!
What about a Saiga in a .308?
They make saiga mounts.
I have a WASR AK and can hit a paper plate every single round @ 150 yards with iron sights who says they’re not accurate maybe yours just has the barrel blown out from all the rounds from playing mine does just fine and when i put my holographic sight on i can dust clays@ the same distance