Gov. David Ige signed bills that put law-abiding gun owners into an FBI criminal database. (Photo:YouTube)
Aloha means hello, it also means goodbye, as in those in Hawaii can say “aloha” (goodbye) to their Second Amendment rights.
See, as most states are moving in the direction of relaxing firearms restrictions to ensure that citizens can more easily exercise their Second Amendment rights, Hawaii is going against the grain, making moves to out-and-out dismantle one’s right to keep and bear arms.
This past week, for example, Gov. David Ige signed SB 2954 (ACT 108) into law, which instructs law enforcement agencies to begin enrolling firearms applicants and gun owners registering their firearms into the FBI’s “Rap Back” system, a criminal-record monitoring service.
Yes, it’s exactly what you’re thinking. A registration scheme for law-abiding gun owners.
The system will notify law enforcement when a registered gun owner is arrested for a criminal offense anywhere in the country. Once that notification has been sent, Hawaiian authorities can then make a determination on whether to confiscate the individual’s firearms.
“This is about our community’s safety and responsible gun ownership. This system will better enable our law enforcement agencies to ensure the security of all Hawai‘i residents and visitors to our islands,” said Gov. David Ige in a press release.
“This bill has undergone a rigorous legal review process by our Attorney General’s office and we have determined that it is our responsibility to approve this measure for the sake of our children and families,” Ige continued.
While this move is troubling in its own right, when coupled with the other two gun control bills the governor signed it becomes all the more sinister. Gov. Ige also enacted HB 625 (ACT 109) and HB 2632 (ACT 110). Both bills lower the bar by which someone is prohibited from owning a firearm.
HB 625 specifies that harassment by stalking and sexual assault will now lead to the denial of one’s right to keep and bear arms. And HB 2632, requires one to surrender their guns to police for the following reasons: Diagnosis of significant behavioral, emotional, or mental disorder, or emergency or involuntary hospitalization to a psychiatric facility.
HB 2632 also gives police the authority to confiscate firearms from those gun owners who fail to turn them in after receiving a written notice.
You see what’s going on here? Right? As it’s been said by thousands and thousands of wary gun owners, registration leads to confiscation. By both simultaneously creating a universal registration system and broadening the scope by which one is subject to losing one’s rights, Hawaii is creating an environment where gun owners will increasingly find themselves in the crosshairs of the state’s civilian disarmament campaign.
Outsiders confused by the gun community’s fervent skepticism to background check laws and registration laws should look no further than these Hawaiian gun laws for an explanation on why our opposition is so emphatic.
“This is a perfect example of why the gun rights movement has always opposed registration and licensing of gun owners,” said Alan Gottlieb, the founder of the Second Amendment Foundation, in an email to GunsAmerica. “The abuse of this data collection is a given. Now you are in a ‘watch list’ simply for exercising a constitutional right.”
Undoubtedly, the Hawaiian model is going to be touted by various gun-control advocacy groups as “common sense” and “reasonable.” But placing law-abiding gun owners in a criminal watchlist as if they are somehow a looming threat to public safety or the security of the free state is not only idiotic and unreasonable, it inherently contradicts why one’s right to keep and bear arms was enshrined in the Constitution.
We, the armed citizens of this country, are existentially imperiled not by each other, rather, it is an overreaching, undemocratic and maleficent government that ultimately threatens our safety, our freedoms, and our livelihood. Yes, I know, trying to convince people that government is the real problem has never been more difficult than it is today, in an age when so many people have become dependent on Uncle Sugar to feed them, educate them, protect them, etc. But it’s the government that we ought to fear and monitor closely — not each other.
For the most part, Hawaiian residents won’t really raise a stink about the new laws until, of course, they become unfairly targeted by the government due to a “glitch” in the system. That’s how it works. No one cares until it happens to them. But by that point, it’ll be too late. The watchlist system will have gotten too big, too powerful, too omnipresent to be undone. The government will have all the information it needs to continue its surveillance. There will be no going back. No hitting the reset button. In this sense, there’s really nothing left to say but, aloha!
His ‘legal’ department must have missed class when they taught the Second, Fourth and Fifth Amendments.
No matter how you cut it all laws about guns are illegal because the Supreme Court decided as early as 1803 that “Any Law that is repugnant to the Constitution is NULL and VOID”. Besides all gun laws are in favor of Criminals and detrimental to Law Abiding citizens.
Any politician creating laws against guns should be held responsible for any deaths where the victim can’t defend them selves because of that law. Why….Well the politician has assumed responsibility for that defenseless person’s life without their permission.
If one of my family died because of an illegal law then I would go after that politician both financially and physically for justice, just to prove the illegality of the Law.
The Legal system would bear the responsibility for the death. Because of that the justice should come from the remaining family members. That is the Law of human nature and the only true justice.
Man can NOT overcome nature with his laws. Nature ALWAYS wins in the end. Public servants are supposed to help you NOT kill you with Illegal Laws.
Action you can take against any Politician (Civil Servant) supporting gun laws.
1, Sue them for assuming your right of self defense .
2. Charge them with aiding and abetting a criminal act,
(The criminal took advantage of the law to commit the act.)
3. Sue them for abusing your civil rights under the Constitution.
4. Charge them for Federal and State for “Perjury under Oath”. (Perjury of the first sentence in their Oath of Office)
5. File charges with federal Marshall with possible treason against the Constitution.
All or any of the above is the proper citizen reaction to a death caused by illegal laws involving self defense.
Other Actions:
File a complaint with the AG of Violation of Civil Rights.
Demand an Investigation into the politicians possible criminal action.
Use the Federal Courts and Marshall’s office as much as possible.
Contact the US AG and file a claim against the politician(s) responsible for the Creation of a illegal laws supporting criminals instead of citizens.
To any Good/Brave Lawyer this would be a slam dunk because of the evidence on Social and TV media, Plus the Supreme Court Ruling in 1803. ANY judge ruling against this would be held responsible for the same reasons.
Well said Sir!!! Amen!
Boycott Hawaii, Take away the touristism industry from them
I guess he wants a civil war to start right there in Hawaii
Dude, looks like he just finished a Bong Load.
Even though Hawaii does not have a recall statute why not get all the shooters, gun owners and concerned Citizens to start a petition to remove the governor.
If cannot do that, then get signatures to have a recall statute voted into the Hawaii State constitution, then recall the governor.
If cannot or do not want to spend the time, money and effort to change the constitution and remove anti gun politicos then may the chains of bondage rest lightly upon you.
May haps can turn the clock back to the early 1900’s where the citizens of Hawaii were property.
I will never set foot in Hawaii ever again! They might as well leave the union as they do not count as America anymore in my mind…
Every law abiding and responsible gun owner should be on board with making our communities safer, and keeping guns out of the hands of anyone that can’t be trusted to act responsibly. Stop your pissing and moaning and blaming. I know many democrats that are gun supporters. And I know many republicans that are anti gun. Democrat or Republican who the F cares. This is bigger than that. Pull your heads out of your asses and wake up. “United we stand, divided we fall”.
I am an AMERICAN and owner of a large collection of purposeful and ridiculous firearms. I am not worried about being deemed unfit. And if the day comes when I am I hope there would be a system to remove my ability to hurt people. Anybody who feels otherwise is NOT a responsible gun owner.
I want to add to my comment. If you don’t like it fix it. We ARE the people.
Matt –
Regardless of your chronological age you show your youth, inexperience, and ignorance in failing to recognize that very few rights are ever taken from a free people all at once and without some rhetoric about how it is in the best interest of the people. It is always a slow erosion accompanied with malice and an attempt to gloss over the true intent false compassion. If you would like to relinquish your rights, have at it. I will continue to fight for mine as i, to this day, have more confidence in the authors and signers of our bill of rights then I do or will in a slick liberal or a complicit left leaning mainstream media.
Mr. Sparkles, You mention having confidence in the authors & signers of the Bill of Rights YET, you take the Second Amendment and change the meaning & intent to suit your beliefs. You can not separate a sentence with a comma and then claim it has a Dual-,meaning. Those Citizens, registered with their State Militia have the Right to bare Arms. Not every Rapist & Crack-head who wants to spray an Uzi just because it’s Fun. I stand with Matt on each point. The proposed Legislation are all solid reasons for Legally restricting who may possess a Gun & who may not. I’ve got a small collection of Firearms, I also have a conceal/carry permit & yet, it I were to commit a crime AFTER I passed my C&C Permitting application, how would the Police know without some system such as “the FBI’s “Rap Back” system, a criminal-record monitoring service.” ? Personally, I believe they should use this system during the purchasing of ammunition as well. After all, it’s not the Firearm which Kills but, the Projectile fired from the weapon. Every State should have their Own State Militia. Every Gun-owner must belong to the State Militia & receive Training, Background checks & Monitoring. Requirement for belonging to a State Militia & following it’s rules should be a requirement for a person to pas a NICS Background check. Members should be issued an ID Card, which they must show when buying Ammunition or reloading supplies as well as when purchasing a firearm.
Something concerning the Second Amendment, and the entire US Constitution, needs to be remembered. If, as it has, the US Supreme Court decides that “comma” seperates and controls the meaning of the text, then it DOES.. .. The Court and only The Court gives legal meaning to the Constitution’s text. While we have a favorable interpretation to work with, LEGAL CHALLENGES to these laws must be made. Anyone foolish enough to privately interpret the Constitution misunderstands our form and manner of government. We must use what we have while we have the opportunity, and suits, well funded, will kill most of these bad bills.
Give them an inch your an dipshit
You are stupid!! More people are killed with cars and hammers than guns!!
Oh hell let’s take cars and hammers out of the hands of people also. And let’s not forget the fork, makes people fat and that can cause them to die. Life is A bitch things happen and the sun will come up in the East tomorrow!!
This isn’t about gun control it’s about Federal Government intrusion in our 2nd Amendment. Curious how much Federal Funding this Governor got for the wave of his pen?
hmmm hit in head by coconut and too much rum in the coconut. shame, i wonder if his security uses spears???
How does this law keep track of the millions of illegal guns in the hands of criminals that are not registered? I haven’t heard of criminals that voluntarily register their guns. For law abiding citizens that do register their guns, the statistics of crimes committed by them is infinitesimal by comparison to those criminals that use illegal weapons.
Bob Roizman,
I’m in agreement with you 100%. Our Democrat Mafia wants us disarmed so the criminals can be used to scare us more. Fear is the number one tool the Mafia uses for controlling people & The Democrat Mafia is no different.
Every damned time a Democrat wants to control us they use fair as their number one tool for control. They claim they’ll protect us, but amazingly the crime rate is always higher where firearms ownership is restricted.
There are more deaths on the streets and highways each year than from firearms. So why in the hell don’t they restrict car ownership or knives or ball bats or poison or anything else criminals use to kill people?
In the past I’ve often heard the phrase, “Wouldn’t it be worth it if it saved only one life??” Idiots like that must be the offspring of pair cousins or brothers & sisters. Ohh & I forgot to include Democrat politicians.
No, they have a sack full of box jelly-fish grenades!
Think maybe all the pro gun people here on the Mainland should just refrain from traveling to Hawaii, and discourage anyone they know from doing the same. Maybe then the residents, business owners, and others that benefit from having us vacation there will decide to change their governor and any other politicians that think as he does.
You are right, Hawaii is a way over inflated price of a vacation anyway. You can get more bang for your buck else where.
New to start a ban on going to these states with these crazy laws or what ever they are!!!
Yes, PLEASE stay away. We have far too many tourists coming over here, the traffic is a nightmare.Tell all your friends to stay away as well.
DONE!
Just leave your mainland money?
Isn’t it time for the NRA, GOA, 2nd Amendment Foundation, JPFO, and others to organize boycotts of NY, NJ, MA, CA, and HI? Pick one to start with and select another every year. Then rotate them over the years. Encourage the members of the organizations to plan to go places other than the State currently being boycotted, and to avoid those on the list too, if at all possible. Want to take the kids on a Disney vacation? Go to FL instead of CA. Want to see a tropical paradise? Go to the Caribbean instead of Hawaii. Visit the Alamo instead of Plymouth Rock. Go to beaches in NC instead of NJ. You get the idea.
Hey Davieboy you can kiss my ass. As a 3rd generation Californian I’ve watched since the 50’s Midwesterners move here for jobs and the weather. Next a boat load of east coasters for the weather and if you pull up just about every actor or singer ….they are usually from east of the Rockies. Federal government doesn’t allow profiling or even asking a person if they are here legally, which in turn has bulked up the demcrap voter registration. So kiss my conservative white ass!!! By the way, who the hell wants to go to Florida? The humidity is high, the bugs are big and the Cubans stink up the place.
By the way, what state do you live in?
California is the most bankrupt state in the union!! Stealing money from the conservative states by browing more money by the Federal government with no intention of paying it back! “America’s Greece” You are just like the other lying chroni capital garbage running your state, people are moving out of California and into the mid west bringing all of the scank and socialist culture with them that the locals hate!! You can’t slip that lie past me I worked all over the mid west for a living and Cali. chroni capital ponds have started running from their own self destruction in the last 8 years!
How about when California goes bankrupt and the rest of us have to bail them out for all the democrat vote buying, oops I mean social benefits, that it resorts to territory status? If a state is insolvent and operated under conservator ship with a federally appointed governor, is it a state anymore?
Tell me then why do the census show CA losing people by the thousands and moving East? I don’t think it is because of the weather.
I live in Fl. And feel the same way as you do about Cal.,But that not what this is all about.It’s Our 2nd admin.Right .now let’s all ban togather
AGREED, Good Plan
Hawaii is a very un-friendly gun state. Most people here don’t own guns and are afraid of them. That’s why it’s so easy to pass these stupid laws.
Tens of thousands of military members get screwed when they transfer to Hawaii. Forced to register their firearms within 72hrs of arrival or they are criminals. They aren’t residents, so they don’t get to vote about it. They have to take one or two days of leave just to stand in line for several hours to register.
Let’s not forget the localism, kill haole day at the schools, the property crime, drug use, traffic, more localism. The Police Command is anti-gun. 20 years since a single CCW permit was approved. Oh, and I’ve personally witnessed cops downplay, not report or lie on police reports of assaults that were 100% hate crimes. Can’t have the stats reflect the amount of hate crimes, it looks bad for the tourist trade.
But, the surf is amazing. Not amazing enough to go back and deal with everything else..
I don’t understand why the legal purchase of a firearm, causes such a problem!1 It seems to me that the problem is with people that have already have a criminal record and/or terrorist links. It might be a bit more prudent to focus our attention in that direction. Hell, there is already a substantial list of them! Even more to the point, the police deal with them every day. Put these people away and make the effort worthwhile. While government is focused on that problem, maybe they will leave us law abiding citizens alone. We are not the problem
He learned nothing from World War II and Pearl Harbor. What an easy hit for foreign powers.
So does the governor have Japanese background, or fully Hawian?
Teachers, engineers, health care workers already finger printed and entered into FBI criminal database in Texas. BIG BROTHER is watching!
Wonder if that library would have felt like this on Dec. 8, 1941?
Libtard not library. Stupid auto correct.
Hate to bust your bubble, but he’s a libtard. On Dec 8, 1941, he’d have wanted to surrender.
The author misunderstands the Rap Back data base. The data base is simply a list of names, and not specifi8cally, or even generally, criminals. For example, anyone in a position of trust, for example a school teacher, attorney, fiduciary, etc. is put on the list, because an arrest may reflect on their qualification to sere in that capacity. and this is how Hawaii has used the list in the past. If someone on the list is arrested anywhere, that arrest is reported to whomever put that person on the list. So being put on the list does not imply that one is a criminal, only that one is subject to a greater level of scrutiny. The FBI does not maintain a record as to WHY one is on the list.
Second, Hawaii already has universal gun registration. No gun may be purchased without a permission slip from the Chief of Police, as is the case in New Jersey. So Hawaii already knows who and where you are. The only missing piece, which Rap Back provides, is whether someone has been arrested for a criminal act outside of Hawaii, information not generally shared between police agencies.
Finally, to those who say “I will not comply,” it is not like you have a choice if you own a gun in Hawaii, unless of course it is an illegal unregistered firearm, since your name will be added by the police whether you like it or not.
No, I don’t misunderstand anything. The nature of the list, in part, presumes that the folks on it need to be more closely monitored because of their profession or, in the case of Hawaii, because of their property, i.e. they own guns. I find that deeply troubling. Maybe you don’t.
Lemme ask you some questions because you seem to be okay with the list. Why does the government need a system to monitor law-abiding citizens? Why should a law-abiding citizen be subject to surveillance if they haven’t done anything wrong? Lastly, should a law-abiding citizen be added to a watchlist without their consent?
Ok everybody, let’s just remember that a governor is an “elected” official. That being said, let’s see how he does in the next election. Also, with all the information you have about gun laws in Hawaii, it just proves to me, there are more than enough gun laws already. Making more unesesary gun laws, is wasting tax payer dollars. So, as a law abiding, registered voter, that happens to beleave in protecting our constitutional rights. I would find somebody else to vote into the governors office.
As gun owners we all need to work together. Just remember, the governor works for the people of the state, and he or she, can be replaced.
Governor Ige will do just fine in the next election because the voters of Hawaii are gut level totalitarians. There are no laws too extreme, too intrusive, or too banal for Hawaii Democrats i.e. Hawaii voters.
You shouldn’t be subject to more intense state scrutiny for exercising a constitutionally-guaranteed right. This has a chilling effect on the exercise of the right (and so does any kind of registration or licensing), an effect that would not be permitted if it were any other right.
this dna bred cannibal should be impeached and sued and he must be led to shame. to all you law abiding citizens in Hawaii, dont register anything and tell them to all go screw off. Ige will be jailed one day for his crimes and then hanged for treason. just another cannibal from his ancestors.
What everyone misses in all of these debates is that the constitution doesn’t guarantee nor give us our “rights” under the Bill of Rights as the first 10 amendments are known. What the constitution does is guarantee that the government cannot and may not infringe in any way upon those rights. If the constitution gave us these rights, then it could be amended and have them taken away, for that reason the founders enshrined those “rights” as belonging to the citizens regardless of government action and insured there was no misunderstanding by putting in the constitution a preventative for taking them away.
It’s why Barack Obama and his ilk hate the constitution. They see it as a document of “negative rights” in as much as it restricts the government and in their mind there should be no restriction on anything the “government” wants to do. They don’t believe for one instant that they are public servants they believe they are our public masters. Hence you have a leftist, gun grabbing liberal like the Hawaiian governor signing this absurd and unconstitutional legislation.
No, I haven’t “missed” that, I have always known that our rights are “natural rights”, by simple fact that we are human beings.
The Bill of Rights is an enumeration of those rights so all mankind will know of those rights and of our declaration of intent to keep them.
It will not stand up in court, you cannot place a non-criminal in the FBI data base PERIOD, no matter what your state’s legal think tanks believes. Lets see if the voters in Hawaii are smart enough to know this, I see a large sum of money being awarded to gun owners from a civil litigation suit on this one as soon as they are put in the data base. This is a major over reach of executive power for their state.
Nonsense. As I explained above, the list is not limited to criminals, but rather is a list of names for which a notice of arrest is sent to the agency that put the name on the list. That person may be a teacher arrested for child sexual abuse in another state, a fiduciary arrested for fraud in another state, and so on and so forth. Merely having a license that imposes upon the holder a special level of care is enough to qualify for this list. Each state decides who it wants to add to the list, and being on the list infers no criminal history. So no, the odds of this law being held unconstitutional is essentially nil. There is no prohibition in the Constitution guaranteeing a right to not be placed on a list–any list.
And up until now, the people on the list are there because they hold some kind of privileged position, or are engaged in licensed or state-regulated activities, are fiduciaries for others, or have access to vulnerable persons. Now Hawaii is putting people on the list for exercising their right to arms. I guess there were Jews in Nazi Germany who didn’t see the harm in having to register their religious affiliations with the state. After all, some of them probably thought, what are they going to do – round us all up and kill us?
Mark, you are overlooking one small concept in your justification, you are out on the list for having a gun, and for those citizens who are not employed in a career that warrants being “listed” I.e. teachers, fiduciary, etc are having their rights unduly strained by being required to be placed on said list for just practicing their constitutional rights. Second thought, how exactly are they defining a breech of said list….a misdemeanor causes loss of right? Considering the way the current treasonous administration defines terrorist (refer to dhs list: veterans, Christians, those against illegal immigrant amnesty, constitutionalist, etc), that is why we don’t need to be unjustly put on a a list (again, refer to dhs secret court who puts you on no fly list with no due process). Pardon me being blunt, but take your apologetic support for this treasonous law and stick it. We shall see what you say when they come get yours……..with no due process. That my friend is exactly what these lists are for, disregard for due process, just like oblabla disregards the law.
Consider this: This list is automatic for ANYONE arrested for ANY crime in ANY state, regardless of your occupation. For example,you are a registered gun owner living in Hawaii. You are arrested for a misdemeanor shoplifting charge in Missouri; meaning you are automatically placed on a criminal database in your home state. Or let’s say you’re in Wyoming. You get a speeding ticket, forget to pay it or show up for a court date. That’s a crime. How do either of those warrant being placed on a criminal watch list? Some may argue fraud is not a valid reason for being scrutinized for owning a firearm. Or driving while impaired. Or a non-violent offense. Just because there is no Constitutional right against being placed on a list, does not mean it’s necessary nor right. (Though, there is also such a thing as due process; being arrested does not necessarily mean you are a criminal. It’s called “innocent until proven guilty.”)
I guess Hawaii forgot that it’s already been the front line of one world war, add that to the fact the military is focusing over 30% of its future resources on the Pacific pivot to counter the rise of China and one has to wonder if someone hasn’t made a deal to peacefully surrender some prime real estate to cover our debts.
If you notice, all of the states most prome to invasion have the strictest gun control laws, CA, Connecticut, NY, Maryland, WA, HA. While the Obama administration just released the weapons trade embargo with Vietnam! Do you think Vietnam can afford high tect U.S. weaponry? Vietnam’s boarder neighbor can, China. Vietnam will just be a middle man. I believe the dollar and the U.S. is being engineered to fall, the engineered sub prime mortgage diaster was just a stepping stone. The IMF’s special drawing rights, which is a basket of currencies is set to bring ALL of the world’s central banks together to become the world’s official unelected government. To do this the dollar has to fail as the world’s reserve currency. As our prospert, health and freedoms are taken away, I will not be surprised if we are set up by our bought off Federal Government to lose the next major war to the Communist.
Vietnam is now a major tourist destination. In fact, more and more a luxury honeymoon destination–nearly an equivalent of Fiji or Bora Bora. Lots of lots of tourist cash flowing in.
I am surprised they have not specified a 6 pointed star in bright yellow that all gun owners must wear to be identified in public – and those that are Jewish add the work ” Jude” to it – or for non Jewish just say ” EOS” – enemy of state – will come to this seeing the government officials in Hawaii. This might be a good protest symbol to wear I expected this to be expanded to include people with different types of diseases – such a – HIV, TB, and etc.
However, this is a VIEW of the next step on a FED basis. ALSO, in Oklahoma the State Gov. is going to make it “legal” to take your credit cards and run it through a data base when they stop you for ANY traffic violation!!! The NEXT step will be to confiscate funds if a debt card and to max out your credit cards should they “think” you owe money to “them”. So, they are TESTING it in Oklahoma…. then watch out!
The FBI is a federal agency.
I ran a pretty thorough internet search. I think you may have misunderstood. Running your credit cards for a traffic violation is not a thing; nor going to be. Here’s what I found: http://www.news9.com/story/26124715/71-forged-credit-cards-found-during-traffic-stop-in-okc. Essentially, during a routine traffic stop,the driver was acting suspiciously, the two other people in the car gave different stories about where they were going, the driver gave deputies permission to search the vehicle, the search turned up 71 forged credit cards. That does not mean there is any consideration to start running credit cards during any traffic stop.
I will NEVER go back to Hawaii!!
He cannot take any guns from anyone. His actions is a pure violation of the Constitution. Remember our rights come from God not Government. The Governor needs to be arrested for Treason against the Constitution. I hope the people are smart enough to initiate a recall for him and remove him from office.
Whatever happened to “Innocent until proven guilty” or “due process”? Unfortunately, the “tropical paradise” of Hawaii is beginning to resemble a Third World banana republic. The state that gave us Barak Hussein Obama is proving that the apple never falls far from the tree. Our Founding Fathers must be rolling in their graves as they see Progressives steadily disassemble the nation that became the crown jewel of the Enlightenment. If Americans hope to retain their hard won traditional freedoms, they must begin to reexamine the political, social and practical costs of political correctness, inclusion, feminism, social justice, affirmative action and the entire litany of the progressivism.
One small problem. He ain’t from Hawaii. The photo shopped Birth Cert might say otherwise but that is an “gov issued” document. Everyone must remember that.
Back to the topic at hand. Sad, so sad that Hawaiian citizens are being subjected to this nonsense.
The Hawaiian governor’s excrement is smarter than he is
Interesting concept… Punish law abiding people for the actions of criminals, terrorists and psychopaths.
Time for a Constitutional Judge Dredd. Every time a politician violates his oath of office, he is immediately removed from power, thrown in jail and tried for treason. Politicians are elected to be public servants, serving the United States Constitution first, then their constituents. If we the people do not make them honor the supreme law of the land they swore to uphold and defend, then we deserve the tyranny they shove down our throats. Time to rekindle the Spirit of 1776 and refresh the tree of liberty.
Constitutional amendments (to the federal and State constitutions) requiring the removal from any elected office or appointed position of any persons holding same at the time any legislation that they proposed or sponsored while serving as legislators, or signed while a governor, is found unconstitutional in any court. (No waiting for appeals – if a court declares against the interests of the hand that feeds it, that creates enough doubt about the law to satisfy the requirement for removal from office.) People so removed from their positions may not hold an elected office or appointment in government again unless and until the law is ultimately found to be constitutional. (No appeals, no recourse to compensation or “lost pay” of any kind permitted, no suits for damages of any kind – you don’t have a right to hold an elected office or government appointment.)
This would give legislators pause over what legislation they introduce and sponsor.
Please… it’s for the children… like Zyklon B.
Most govt. officials tend be cowards, in other words, let others fight for their country they so profoundly declare loyalty… I said most now, so please do not start naming off the men and women who served individually. Although, that might not be a such a bad idea. My wife and I both served; Air Force, four year dropouts. Honorable Discharge and both proud to have been a part of it, although we are looked down upon by those who served there twenty; story for another time. I’ve been shooting since I was 10. That means after going to the range with my father, breaking down the firearm, cleaning, and storing for the next time; every time! In our home, gun ownership was considered a part of growing up which gave the child, under direct parental supervision, a sense of responsibility…. notice I stated “in my house.” Now, I realize there have been, in the past 10 years or so, horrible examples of children who had access to firearms that went horribly wrong. However, you don’t purchase a firearm for a child/teenager and not have CONTROL over that firearm. I’m getting off topic here. My apologizes. I don’t know what got into this guy’s head that prompted him to attempt to pass this as law but there seems to be a terrible stigmatism associated with firearms and firearms ownership. The case I always point to, and I do hate bringing this up, is the Physician who’s wife and daughters were raped, murdered, and burned in their own home, while the police stood outside and waited for, well, I’m not sure… We could debate this but I’m not going down that road as the press pretty much got into this while it was taking place in Connecticut. See https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1292094/doctor-who-heard-wife-being-raped-and-daughters-being-burned-alive-devastated-after-killers-execution-is-overturned-for-being-cruel/
Maybe it’s time to vote for a Samoan or Japanese Governor. They like firearms since Japan is so restrictive except for melt-down nuke reactors. If Trump gets elected maybe he can restrict “Free Trade” to Hawaii until they build an ammo factory. Guess they forgot Pearl Harbor.
Perhaps a different approach is needed to protect lawful activity from being demonized and law abiding citizens being treated like criminals. If second hand smoke is considered dangerous to others, maybe we should push for a smokers registry on the criminal data base. Then maybe we should push to have other lawful activities registered, such as beer drinking, which is contributing to DUI deaths, put on a criminal list. The possibilities go on and on. Maybe its time we push back by taking away other peoples law abiding rights and see how they like it. In other words, find what liberals like and take it away. I think their attitudes might change then.
Just think, if they had had a law concerning causing a death because of drinking, the Lion of the Senate, Ted Kennedy would have been put in prison for drowning a young woman because he was drunk when he was driving her home from a “party.” Makes one wonder what was going on there? Your right. Find out what liberals like and go for it. For instance the prostitution business in D.C. I was told by a reliable contact years ago it is a thriving industry that is used to gives “favors” to representatives in Congress. OOPS! Did I just let the cat out of the bag?
I will NOT comply!
Where is the ACLU on this???
Innocent and now in a CRIMINAL database???
Did I miss the trials…judges…juries…verdicts?
So THIS is a SURPRISE? What do you EXPECT from the State that made the world safe for the BIGGEST FRAUD and IMPOSTOR EVER to WALK THE EARTH! He’s doing what he’s been ORDERED to do because he does NOT want to end up like certain OTHER people the next time he flies!!!
This is from a different story but it should apply to this story as well.
But the idea of a multiple-purchase alert system was discarded on legal grounds, officials said.
>>”The law that created federal gun background checks specifically barred officials from retaining that data, in order to prevent the government from creating a registry of gun owners.”<<
FBI officials concluded that even a subset of that data, involving those who made multiple purchases in a short period, would constitute a kind of gun registry.
It looks like the HI gun registry is unlawful.
No, since it is not a gun owner registry. It is merely a national database of names that generates a notice of an arrest to the state that put a name on the list. The FBI does not know, or have any reason to know, why a name is put on the list. It may include parolees, teachers, lawyers, CPAs, nurses, doctors, blah blah blah. An the database is of course national, and each state decides which names it wants submitted. So far as we know, only Hawaii submits names of gun owners, which means that 49 states don’t.
He said it was a different story, but should apply.
Regardless,the FBI DOES know because the “RAP BACK” system is a criminal-record monitoring system. And occupation has nothing to do with it:
“The system will notify law enforcement when a registered gun owner is arrested for a criminal offense anywhere in the country. Once that notification has been sent, Hawaiian authorities can then make a determination on whether to confiscate the individual’s firearms.”
No more gumMINT aid for Hawaii and send them ALL illegal aliens with no right of return to the continental U.S.
(sounds like fascism? what we got festering now!)
Confiscation. Just like 1930s Germany. And so it begins.
IMPEACH this SOB!
I have a much better idea.
Did anybody read the “ACT” ?
“Every person who acquires a firearm pursuant to section 134-2 shall register the firearm in the manner prescribed by this section within five days of acquisition. The registration shall be on forms prescribed by the attorney general, which shall be uniform throughout the State, and shall include the following information: name of the manufacturer and importer; model; type of action; caliber or gauge; serial number; and
> source from which receipt was obtained, including the name and address of the prior registrant. <
If the firearm has no serial number, the permit number shall be entered in the space provided for the serial number, and the permit number shall be engraved upon the receiver portion of the firearm prior to registration. All registration data that would identify the individual registering the firearm by name or address shall be confidential and shall not be disclosed to anyone, except as may be required"
What is your point? It is completely open ended. Whatever the attorney general or the state decide, is how it will be. And it still violates our 2nd Amendment which means that it is already null and void.
How does registration violate the Second Amendment? The Federal Government is barred by STATUTE (not the Constitution) from registering firearms, but so far no state has ever been prohibited from doing so by any court decision. In fact, until McDonald v. Chicago, states were not bound by the Second Amendment, and enacted any gun laws their legislatures desired. IN the case of Chicago, it was a handgun ban that lasted for over 20 years. D.C. has had a “carry” ban in place until the last few years, requires registration all firearms possessed within city limits, and defines ammunition and components as “firearms” to which the registration requirement applies.
I just don’t get how these rules will help eliminate the crime rate? Did I miss something here? All we are doing is controlling the law abiding citizens. Not the criminals. What we need to start doing is suing the establishments and states that ban guns, every time you or your family encounter shooting or violent incidents. I guarantee you that as soon as the masses start doing that. Government and business establishments will lift these idiotic gun bans. The problem is, there are a lot of people here who talk the talk and never walk the walk.
It won’t. It’s never been about crime control or gun control either. It is simply control of the law abiding citizens. It is all about people control.
The states are immune, for one, and further are not liable for the criminal acts of third persons. So good luck with that.
It will do nothing to eliminate the crime rate. It’s political. The politicians enact these ridiculous gun laws after shootings because they think it will make people feel safer and re-elect them and advance their uninformed political party’s agenda. What I don’t understand is why none of them see it’s having the opposite effect: People are buying guns at unprecedented rates.
every time you or your family encounter shooting or violent incidents
Very few people ever encounter weapons violence.
I’m 76, have lived in at least 12 cities on 2 continents and always in the poorer parts of town, carried a .38 a few times as part of the job I had, and in all my life have been within viewing distance of only 2 episodes of weapons violence: 1 shooting and 1 stabbing, neither of them fatal or even medically very serious.
I strongly support the RKBA (and, indeed, all our folded, spindled, and mutilated rights), but not as an antidote to interpersonal violence, most of which is due to business disputes among criminals, or someone going over the edge. I support them for the same reason Jefferson wrote about: “From the conclusion of this [Revolutionary] war we shall be going down hill. It will not then be necessary to resort every moment to the people for support. They will be forgotten, therefore, and their rights disregarded. They will forget themselves, but in the sole faculty of making money, and will never think of uniting to effect a due respect for their rights. The shackles, therefore, which shall not be knocked off at the conclusion of this war, will remain on us long, will be made heavier and heavier, till our rights shall revive or expire in a convulsion.”
I hope it’s not necessary to enumerate the shackles he wrote about; everyone should be aware of them, and should understand that the RKBA is needed in case we cannot stop the enshackling without the “convulsion” whose necessity he feared.
All I can say is this…PROVE it is a right by being willing to SHOOT any enforcer of a confiscation order. My god, you will actually die fighting for freedom and if you’re good you can take 1-10-100 enforcers with you. I figure 10 would be a good number to start with and if you were really good, maybe a retired SEAL or something maybe 100. So many that the jack booted jerks will think harder about wanting the job. MOLON LABE.
Well, the idiots voted for Owebama to “transform America” and with the help of Satan and Soros, he’s doing it!!!
Maybe we can take the UK’s place in the EU with all these new anti-Constitutional laws being passed and ignored by the supreme court. Just another failing socialist country.
The thing that bothers me is not this idiot. Remember, he was elected to office, which means there are many, many more idiots out there voting for this guy.
I always remind people, Hilter did not conquer Germany, he was elected.
And the NAZI Party, the National SOCIALIST Workers Party brought Germany to total destruction.
And the National Socialist Workers Party (Democrats) in America are currently trying like hell to do the same.
Soooooooooo, how do we know who on this expanded list are police officers, military members, state officials, etc??? Just curious.
Probably exempt until they retire or leave the service. Look what the feds are doing against veterans already. “You can carry a gun while you go kill for us, but when you leave the service, if you have ever talked to a doctor about having trouble sleeping or about having nightmares, you will never own a gun again.”
Didn’t see anywhere in the article about law enforcement or military stationed there being on the list?? And while Hawaii is a beautiful place to visit, the crime in Hawaii has to be fairly high.
When I visited Maui a couple of years ago, the worst things that happened during that week were some hikers got lost, a surfing warning was issued at a state park because the surf was too rough for tourists, and the power went down in area of the Hard Rock Cafe, which broke my streak of eating and having a beer at each one I visited. I don’t remember any crime waves on Maui or the big island when we flew over to visit the Volcano Natural Park. The problem is the State is overrun by Democrats and termites, which are both vermin that eat away with no thought of the consequences of its actions.
Hawaii does have a pretty low violent crime rate, while Washington DC has a crime rate that is about 5 to 6 times as high as Hawaii. However, 3 states with some of the highest gun ownership percentages and most relaxed gun laws (Idaho, Utah, & Wyoming), have even lower violent crime rates than Hawaii and more than 6 times lower than Washington DC. Besides that, the violent crime rate has been declining nationwide (still) even considering the mass shootings (which are mostly done by inner city gangs). What? They didn’t tell you that on CNN?
http://www.fbi.gov
Why don’t the politicians see that? Besides, if the liberal media stopped reporting every story of every shooting (not counting mass shootings),perhaps that would help?
Furthermore, when there is a mass shooting, what difference does it make if the weapon was legal? Like anyone capable of committing such a heinous crime is going to care about the legality of the firearm? Is being denied a gun permit going to suddenly convince a person not to kill all their coworkers?
There are stories in my neck of the woods of folks buying an older home and finding hiding ‘holes’ some still with firearms from the ‘good-ole days’ of prohibition or just boys being ‘family’ boys. Go get-em Good Fellas. These days are coming back. 1 registered gun, 2 otherwise acquired.
He is an idiot, they are everywhere. Just shows, idiots hold Government offices. This is just another stupid attack on our Constitutional rights. He should be fired, as he does not represent the wishes and wants of the people that pay his outrageous salary, The United States Taxpayers. You know were in trouble, when only, criminals, police, and the rich own guns. Our Constitution is there, so we can protect ourselves, from a corrupt Government. Where do these idiots come from, and where are they educated? Our educational system is in real bad shape, if this Governor is an example of what comes out of our educational system, we are in deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep, trouble.
Well who else is in Hiwaia. Barack Barry Sotomoro Hussein Obama. The Muslim in Democratic camo who is doing everything in his power to enforce Socialism for all of America. I giant step for Isis leadership to enforce sharia law. Careful what you ask for as the Muslims are all running for office and winning. You will not recognize the bill of rights or the Constitution in 5 years
Let’s not forget Huma Abedin, Hillary’s closest adviser and radical muslim. She was caught on email stating to Hillary staff members that Hillary is often easily confused.
Another ‘gun-free’ zone in America; let’s see how that works out for the liberal hacks that Hawaiians’ have installed in office.
The islands will likely have no need for police or ‘5.0’ within three to five years! Rated: FAIL!
Well ,he was voted in .. so …
Until then it sounds like a great place not to spend vacation/tourist dollars .
Legal gun owners need to have secure depositories in firearm ownership-friendly states to ship their guns to for safekeeping. Like a bonded gunsmith with a bank safe deposit box vault service. Needed until some of this craziness goes away (if ever). Would need to have protection to owner that he/she would not be legally bound to report location of guns owned but held for them out of state. Just to be able to answer that “I have NO or ONLY this and such gun(s) on my property. ” Or “I own no guns in this State of _______subject to this law.” Then if a state attempts to confiscate guns, therecwould be a safe haven for them. Would need to be done before any Federal or state actions to counteract it. eg Making it a crime ie (interstate flight) to even ship a personal gun across state lines. If state or Federal authorities attempted to make examples (strike fear into legal gun owners) by extension of law to confiscate otherwise perfectly legal ownership in or out of state and/or prosecute owner it should bring to a sharp national focus several issues. One would be whether otherwise gun ownership should be subjected to listing in a criminal data base with ramifications of confiscation without due process, ie a charge of domestic violence or supposition that an individual is not “competen” to own, such as that with seniors or others that need some assistance in carrying out financial or other responsibilities. A second would be unmasking the true nature of de jure (by law) confiscation of firearms. A third would be to challenge firearms laws that restrict the right to interstate commerce or personal travel– eg through New Jersey, or intra-state travel eg through New York City or Philadelphia. .This would also include relocation or even moving through a state when the laws at the states of origin & destination allow it. A fourth issue would be the need to be especially vigilat in fighting potential actions, by whatever guise, by local, state or Federal authorities, to bring on ownership registration or taxation other than that relating to existing laws fully automatic weapons and suppressors. That firearm manufacture is already subject to Federal taxation could be used as argument against further taxation by states or localities.
This liberal governor needs to be recalled by the electorate. Does he not realize that history repeats itself. Japan would not invade the US after Pearl Harbor because of the Constitution gave our countrymen the Right to Bear Arm,s and they were fully aware of how many armed citizens with guns they would have to face. At this point of time our so called leaders are showing a gross disrespect for our Constitution. If they do not want to abide by the Laws of Our Country let them leave, until then uphold the Constitution and our basic freedoms. We do not need Liberal Lunacy to Prevail. Go sing KumBiYah and hold hands with these Muslim refugees being brought into our country by the usurper in office. When your daughters and women are raped and those that try to stand up against this type of threat are beaten or beheaded it will be too late.
And the Left calls the Right Nazis…HI’s move smacks of Nazi Germany with their “Lists”.
He’s a sorry piece of Shit!
Ige is a Fascist!
When he raised his hand and took the oath of office “To protect and defend the constitution of the United States.”as I did when I joined the United States Army.It did not EXCLUDE the second amendment to the Constitution.
I hope the NRA will Sue Him and the state of Hawaii for this unconstitutional and illegal act.
and if they wont I WILL!
ENOUGH of this SHIT!
“I hope the NRA will Sue Him and the state of Hawaii for this unconstitutional and illegal act.
and if they wont I WILL!”
Yeah, sure you will, Bruce…
Well from a federal standpoint, this law has no chance of passing. I hold two FFL’s and work with the ATF from time to time and anyone that has an FFL knows that it’s illegal to place people and guns into a Federal Database showing who owns them unless there is a specific need for it on a case by case basis. Anyone that has ever had to “trace” a gun knows that this law they want to enact can not happen and will be shot down (no pun intended). Tracing guns and gun ownership like in the movies is just a myth. It’s all done from FFL to FFL and takes quite a while since there is no database of gun owners due to the same laws that will make this bill illegal when they try to put it in place. I think the author of this piece may have got it wrong in some way.
Your statement really shows how the Democrats will break laws to accomplish their goal to disarm Americans. Thank you for your insight gained through actual experience.
The defect in your argument is that it is not a database of firearm owners. It is a list of names, some are gun owners because Hawaii has added their names to the list, but the vast majority are not; in fact, I suspect the majority aren’t criminals either, although those names likely appear as well. The FBI does not know why a persons name is on the list, or have any reason to know.
The list is only gun owners. Registered gun owners who are Hawaiian residents and arrested in any state–arrested, not convicted–are placed on the list. Mark N., you really need to re-read the article. You seem to have missed many of the facts.
If you don’t like Hawaii’s new law, leave Hawaii or don’t come to Hawaii.
No problem , i will never go to that non-USA place called Hawaii , There will be plenty of muslims there with bombs and such , enjoy your non-USA place while you can it soon will be gone.
Ummm … Hawaii is a State; therefore, it’s a part of our United States. Anything it does can set precedent for other States to follow (e.g., other states using the same FBI registration ploy). If Clinton becomes President and the Democrats take the Senate, her United States Supreme Court nominees will fly through the system and be approved even if it means violating the Constitution via illegal rule changes. It will only take one liberal justice to allow the Court to vacate Heller and McDonald. When this happens, the Hawaiian system will be found Constitutional as soon as it’s challenged. Accordingly, your vague terrorist rant seems to miss the point of the article.
As it is. one cannot bring their arms to Hawaii, since there is no concealed carry anywhere, and this law applies only to residents who own firearms, not tourists.
If you don’t like Hawaii’s new law, leave Hawaii or don’t come to Hawaii.
Hey hotshot, in case you haven’t noticed, you’re part of this thing we call the “United States”.
You are afforded the protection of the group, politically, economically and Constitutionally.
So why should we real Americans allow those of you who are of a socialist bent to disenfranchise our brothers and sisters in arms in the Islands?
Yours are the words of a tyrant, now go read the Constitution and realize its about ALL Americans, regardless of their State.
Hawaii wants to secede for the United States, let’s encourage them!
Maybe the reason you are not permitted to have weapons my dear is because of your country,s troubled past. Could also the reason the Brits are leaving the EU. Hope you have a good evening
Hello Gheart55, I’m not sure if you refer to the posting of mine but I do think so, so I guess I better leave a respond. I’m not much into history when it’s about German gun laws but in most of the European countries you are not allowed to carry guns or at least not if you don’t have a special permit. For example in Germany you have to be a member of a shooting club and you need a special gun permit as well. I remember there was an interesting posting on this website about what you have to know etc. when you just want to become a hunter in Europe and one of the users wrote about what he had to endure when he tried to receive such a permit for Germany. It was amazing and shocking to read as well. German laws were always harsh in this case from what I know. Not just during our dark 12 years but already before that. Maybe it’s something typical German but again in other European countries there is not a huge difference about it but they are acting with some kind of the same harsh laws. Switzerland is one of the most liberate countries in this case, but they are not member of the EU. And from what I saw so far in the news, Brexit was not about gun ownership. Most European people, not just in Britain, are tired of the EU and its useless actions they do, for example telling us what kind of light bulbs we shall have etc. while we have much bigger problems to worry about but the EU is doing nothing to solve them. That is all I can say about it so far. Thanks, I hope you have a nice evening as well.
RE: USE of SHALL
Shall or shalt is a command in the 10 commandments and in the US Constitution.
Hello Marci, thank you very much for your reply and the help you provided for me! You know, it is funny because when I wrote my original entry I was also thinking about the 10 commandments of the Bible, because I know in its English version the word shall is being used there as a command, while in its German version (you shall = du sollst) it is as well but the problem in my mother tongue is that sollst/sollen does not really mean müssen (must), while in the Bible it obviously does. That’s how I interpreted your 2nd amendment in the first place. I thank you again for your info! Yet, I still believe that those „liberals“ maybe interpret the 2nd amendment the same way as I did first and so do not really see the word shall as a command here but just as some kind of a suggestion. This might be an explanation why they behave like that.
My best greetings to you and thanks again!
Actually, Christian, “shall” has no special meaning. Some people use it in some contexts today to represent an obligation, but grammatically it’s equivalent to “will”, but used in 1st and 3rd person: I shall, thou wilt, he/she/it shall, we shall, you will, they shall. But like the use of “whom” rather than “who”, it’s no longer something used in everyday speech. I seem to recall (it’s been a long time) that one can use “sollen” in place of “müssen” just as one can use “will” in place of “must”, z. B. “Das sollen Sie tun!” / “You will do that!” Nee?
Hello Mairead, yes you are absolutely right about the German sentences! I should have known better I guess, as it is my mother tongue. There is only a small correction I would add: “You will do that!” you can better translate as: „Sie werden das tun!/Das werden Sie tun!“ If you use sollen in this sentence it is so far better translated as “You have to do that!” but yes, both cases are orders that you have to follow. My thanks also go to you for providing me a small grammar lesson as I use English a lot but the last actual class I had about it is already so long ago as well and I never was the best in grammar. 🙂 Thanks again!
Well I guess we are going to the grand canyon for our vacation this year. I\’m probably on some \”watch list\” somewhere in this country because I have no problem telling politicians to go to hell. This idiot governor can sign the toilet paper for all I care. The only law I acknowledge is the constitution. I\’m not alone either. Many of my friends and neighbors feel the same way. We will NOT be ruled by tyrants. If the idiots in power try to take our rights they will have a fight on their hands. If we allow Hitlery and her cronies to get the white house and supreme court there will be a second American Revolution. LEAVE OUR RIGHTS ALONE!!!!!!
Every person who has traveled or plans to travel to HI should cancel
and never go there again.
Tell the libtard governor you do not want our guns you do not want our
money either.
They will not enforce the laws to keep the criminal
off the street…but they will treat law abiding folks like criminals.
Time for some standing up for our 2nd Am. Rights
I’ve been saying that government will not come after our guns through a blatant door-to-door disarmament campaign, but by increasing the laws that cause you to lose your guns as an individual. One day soon, even a jay walking ticket will cause you to lose your rights. There is no way for a group to stand against this either, as it is being done against an individual, so there is no flag to rally around. They can bring whatever force they want to enforce their individual confiscation order too. This is insidious and evil, and the governor should be arrested for treason.
You took the words right off my keyboard.
Ever had a speeding ticket? You’re denied the purchase of that Remington 700.
Can be pretty much guaranteed that it will be a no knock SWAT raid. Wonder have many will be killed because they feared for their safety.
Hey guys, Christian from Berlin, Germany here. I think I just have to comment on this blog entry because even from an outsider’s perspective, this is going too far and I am very angry about the Hawaiian government, although in my country I cannot even carry a gun at all (which makes me unhappy too). Kind of destroying the picture in my head I always had about Hawaii (never been there): Beautiful landscape, awesome volcanic areas, beautiful women and a wonderful tropical weather. I guess now I will always think about Hawaii first as the state with a cruel unfair database for gun owners or something like that.
I do believe that these people are too blind to know the background of some English words. They call themselves Liberals because this is how Hawaii has just been called in the short video of this article (0:20 “the liberal state”). To be a liberalist means to fight for the freedom and individualism of the single person. Individualism itself came from the 19th century and means the free development and autonomy of every single person where the government minimizes putting its hands into this. This is how it is written down in my German dictionary (Duden). And this is how these people call themselves but do they really act like that? They obviously do not. Just as the Christian democrats in Germany (CDU) are behaving (along with SPD and all the others). I thought American parties could not be like that but surprisingly….. Well, I’m very disappointed right now.
In my humble opinion these “liberals” shall just give up on their jobs. I mean this is exactly what so many gun owners, from what I’ve seen in the blogs at this page so far, already have said and were always laughed upon by American people that are against guns. Even Hillary once stated in an interview that you guys fear that black helicopters will land in your backyard and they will confiscate your guns and she stated that this is simply not true. But look, just as you guys prophesized the first step already has been made in Hawaii! Now you guys are on their criminal database! All the so called “myths and fears” have become true!
And do you know how stupid this is? Of course you guys here obviously know but I always thought about this in that way: If somebody gets into his/her car and starts to mindlessly run over people, shall we then start to forbid all people to drive cars? In Germany, where after a killing spree they mostly blame it all just on video games, we have a saying that goes like this: “90% of the mass shooters ate bread. Let’s forbid eating bread!” Sounds crazy I know but this is the stupid logic I see here in the words of these so called “liberals”.
And here is another personal opinion about the whole American gun debate from me. I do think that maybe your fathers, not your biological ones but the ones that wrote the constitution, made a very small mistake when writing the 2nd amendment and I do think this is the only “problem”. Of course please feel free to correct me if I should be wrong in this case as I am not really much into the American constitution myself and have just read the 2nd amendment so far, trying to interpret this myself as I continue to follow this debate:
I do believe that the Hawaiian governor and all the other 2nd amendment enemies can just behave like this because of the small 5-letter word “shall” in the 2nd amendment. If I translate this word right into my German mother tongue “shall” means nothing more than “You shall not do this but if you do otherwise you still can because it’s your problem.” I think the word “shall” is the same as the word “should”. Let’s say if your mother asks you to bring the trash out and she sais “You shall bring out the trash” it is something you should do but in the end you are not really supposed to do this. But if she would say “You must get out the trash.” this is sharper and clearer to understand. I do believe the 2nd amendment should better have been written like this: “…. cannot be infringed at all.” I do not believe that anyone has the power to change a part of your constitution and obviously if somebody could actually do that then the constitution would be worthless anyway, but I believe this small word “shall” is the problem. Again, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong about your constitution or my interpretation of the English word shall.
In the end this is, in my personal opinion, a dark day for gun owners in Hawaii and for all the gun owners in America as well because, if I understood it right, you can be in the database too if you’ve done something wrong before and later move to Hawaii (new job, family whatever). But I have to admit I haven’t read this bill completely right now. For an outsider like me it’s sometimes also hard to understand, even if my English skills are fine.
Keep fighting for your rights guys, my condolences from Germany to you!
The Women are not!! that pretty
Yeah, that was my first thought too!
Hello Michael! Well, I’ve never been there but that’s all I’ve heard about Hawaii. 🙂 But if I would ever have the chance to visit Hawaii then I can assure you that my interest in its nature is the real thing that would interest me. I just collected what I’ve heard in general about it but now I will think about Hawaii first what I wrote here in the first place. Well, maybe after your November elections the times will be better for Hawaii.
my condolences to you HERR CHRISTIAN ! …your country is contolled by a ANTI-GERMAN , MUSLIM-LOVING COMMUNIST JEW ! What is wrong with you Germans ? Don’t you ALL KNOW … HITLER WAS RIGHT ! TAKE BACK YOUR COUNTRY NOW !
Antisemitism has no part in this debate. Moreover, Hitler disarmed the populous so he could institute his reign of terror. In other words, you are in fact supporting the gun grabbers with your pro-Nazi drivel. Go back to your cave verdamnte schweinhund.
Hey SGT-N, thanks for dealing with this strange guy for me. See, that guy cannot even write the small word Sieg in the correct order. I don’t want to reply to someone like that. We Germans don’t want any dictatorship at all, no matter from which side and no matter from which person and all this Nazi talk… I’m just tired of it! I already had to hear this a lot from other Germans that were calling me like that when I was protesting every Monday and sometimes also on weekends on the streets to make people wake up but they are too much into hunting down their capitalist instincts and after Pegida Berlin split up from the main Pegida movement it was time for me to leave. I now hope for the AfD and the 2017 votes in Germany, just like you guys hope for November this year. My best greetings to you!
It’s “SHALL NOT” – in legalese it is a mandate to- ‘not touch’.
As MAO’bama stated, seemingly innocently(not) in 2008; disparging the Constitution as merely a “charter of negative liberties”, stating- ” It says what government can’t do to you but doesn’t say what the federal government or state government must do on your behalf”.
Of course he’s not a true ‘Constitutional scholar’ but a disingenuous manipulator, distortor, usurper and ememy of all 3-Founding U.S. documents. His communist upbringing, mentoring, education and mutually volunteered associations with communists not only skewed his understanding and values for them but brought him to disparage them in a very anti-American and anti-Christ way.
True Americanism is living with “freedoms under Liberty” as the individuals right + responsibilty to freely pro-gress.
Not top heavy intrusive bureaucratic “progressive gubmint” dictating every individual move = socialist/statism or outright communism where no accountability is over the hierarchy and Rights of the People is only what tyrants say.
Significantly then what Hawaiian gubmint has done is clearly unConstitutional and should be fought now before being entrenched.
My father came from a small town near Sangerhausen- are you near or familiar with it ~?
Hello mtman2 and thank you very much for your explanation! When I understand the sentence of Obama from 2008 right it really seems that he does not know what he is saying. First he sais government in general so to me this means all kinds of governments, no matter if federal or state government, so he shouldn’t have added the rest of his sentence. Funny, when the votes were, so long ago, I also thought that he maybe would be good for America. Even he did catch me with his powerful “Yes we can” but as we can see today it was all a lie. I wonder when he said “Yes we can” the last time because I haven’t heard it for years as I remember. I guess he has become silent since he sees the destruction he did that has nothing to do with the promises he made.
In all this debate I wonder one thing: If everything these politicians, like the Hawaiian governor, do is so extremely against the constitution itself then I do really wonder why the American people do not wake up in general. But okay, they don’t really do in my country either but as we say here (I hope I translate this saying correctly): “Continuous drops erode the stone” (German: Steter Tropfen höhlt den Stein).
Unfortunately no, most of my family today has been born and always lived in Berlin, with some ties to the Danish border, East-Prussia and even from Huguenots (France). My grandfather was doing a lot of research about his family and it is very interesting. But we never had ties to your region. But I had a wonderful vacation during autumn 2011 in the Harz Mountains with my parents. 🙂
In American jurisprudence, the word “shall” is interpreted as being mandatory. I hope that helps. Otherwise, I enjoyed your post which gave we Americans a cogent view from a person who already lives in a society that a demented group here sees as Nirvana. Maybe, you can hope that the EU will see the error of its way and reverse its antigun stance in view of the terrorist attacks that are once again plaguing the continent.
Hello again SGT-N! Just saw now that you’ve replied me two times so I want to answer this one as well, as I always want to reply all my messages (I hope the administrator won’t get mad at me now for having to check all the postings of mine).
Yes, thank you very much for your help because it does help, just like the explanations of the others I’ve received! This is an awesome community, besides some small knuckleheads like the one you’ve just replied here too but you can meet them anywhere. I am also happy to know that you, and maybe some other people, like my outsiders views. I am always a bit humble because I do think “I’m not an American and I wonder if those people mind outsiders posts” so I’m very happy that you are really interested! Well, with Brexit being successful I do hope that those useless politicians in the EU parliament will finally wake up and do something good for all the money they get instead of trying to take our light bulbs, coffee machines, vacuum cleaners etc. in times of crisis! Funny, they want to tell me how much electricity my household tools shall use but at the same time you never see these guys in Brussels taking the stairway instead of the lift or sitting in their parliament with candles to save energy!
I unfortunately have to say that Germany has so far some of the harshest gun laws I ever encountered and even if the EU would itself allow guns to be freely bought etc. I would be extremely surprised if Germany would do follow because Merkel and all the others would be in big trouble if we people, that have been enslaved since decades, would suddenly have a right to buy arms without having to be in a shooting club with special permits and all this stuff.
Your understanding of “shall” is accurate, but there is only a small problem: That was not the vernacular of the era.
You are absolutely right about the definition of “liberalist” and the liberals are going against what they are supposed to be for: Individualism. While Democrats are liberal, it is typically the Republican party that fights for states’ rights. Essentially, it’s the Republicans wanting individualism–more freedom for the individual with less interference from the government. So while you’re correct it’s the liberals who are supposed to fight for the rights of each man, woman and child, they’re slowly taking away those rights. It breaks my heart they are doing this to my country and my fellow Americans. Their country. Their fellow Americans.
I need to clarify: I mean, “…cannot infringe at all.”, was not part of the vernacular.
Hello Sarah, thank you very much for your explanation! I didn’t know that at the time the constitution was written the English language was different in these small but important details! This is very interesting for me!
Yes, I have to admit that it’s very strange to me that both sides are acting like what you expect from their opponent. Who can we trust if no one is following his/her roots? And more: Who should we vote for? I do understand your pain and to be honest I am also going crazy about the situation on my continent, yes not just about Germany but about whole Europe I’m afraid of. And when I see the people still not caring about all the problems but continue following their capitalistic needs and play as everything would be love and normal (I hate the Christmas!) and when you realize that this is all just a masquerade, then this makes you even more crazy! Well, I hope for you and your family (as for everybody else on this website too) that you still have some happy days, wherever you are in the US. Me? I guess I’m doomed but I have at least God, so there is nothing to fear for me. Have a nice Independence Day Sarah!
Christian, I have been following your posts and I am very impressed with your demeanor in discussing American
politics. Don’t worry about the number of posts that you might contribute about a particular topic. The site monitors are much more concerned with verbal abuse and vitriolic attacks on the other contributors. I would like to offer my perspectives of the points that you stressed. I will provide the Merriam-Webster’s dictionary definitions for the key words that I will elaborate on.
liberal: a person who is liberal: as ” one who is open minded or not strict in the observance of orthodox, traditional or established forms or ways. : an advocate or adherent of liberalism esp. individual rights.
Some might be confused because this doesn’t sound like the average American liberal in the Democrat Party. The reason for this confusion is something that happened around the late 19th century. Karl Marx was all the rage in Europe because his socialist ideals resonated with the working class. American workers also liked Marx’s ideas but the American public was wary of the word “socialism”. That’s when the socialists adopted the word “liberal”.
The liberal movement began with the thoughts of Thomas Hobbes 1588 – 1679 and John Locke 1632 – 1704. The writings of these two men greatly influenced the thinking of the Founding Fathers of the United States of America.
They postulated the idea that human beings were individuals who were born with inherent rights. The writers of the Declaration of Independence actually included the rights: life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in their famous document sent to King George.
Today’s liberals believe in harnessing collective efforts to attain the common good. They regard the concept of individualism the same way that Karl Marx did, namely as being counterproductive to the goals of socialism. The word individualism is analogous to being a swear word. In plain language the Liberal Democrat would condemn the thinking of the two men, (Hobbes and Locke), who originally defined liberalism.
I won’t present the modern dictionary meanings of the words “shall” and “will” because they are now, for all practical intent, interchangeable.
Several people have already addressed the meaning and usage of the words “shall” and “will”. Most laws incorporate the word shall because it conveys a more definite meaning than the word will. Think of the word shall as being a command and the word will as being a suggestion. Modern usage of these two words has generally become, as I said, interchangeable. This is lamentable because their original meanings were quiet useful.
And now Christian, I would like to consider the word “capitalist”. This word has become so despised in certain circles that it is used like a swear word. “He is nothing but a capitalist!” I’ll say it right now, the economic giant that America became was the direct result of free enterprise driven by the engine of capitalism. For better or worse, capitalism is the most efficient way to operate a business.
capitalism: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decisions, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market
The capitalism of the early 1900’s in America made no allowances for the worker’s welfare. In fact, the description “Morganized” referred to J. P. Morgan’s regrettable initiation of firing “excess” workers and driving the remaining workers to pick up the slack under threat of losing their jobs. There were always more people at the front door looking for employment.
These business abuses of unrestrained capitalism were brought under control of the labor union movements. Never the less, capitalism is the best way to reward efficiency. My definition of capitalism is: harnessed greed.
The harder and more efficiently that one works the more reward one gets. The person who is afflicted with the disease of sloth, earns nothing. In America, every competent, healthy adult citizen is expected to earn his or her own way. The American who seeks to take a free ride on the backs of his fellow Americans is unworthy of his American heritage.
Christian, you are very good at communicating using the English language. I studied German in high school and retained almost nothing of that fine language. I wish that I were half as good in using German as you are in English. From what I have read about all the world’s languages, I admire German as being the most precise.
I dare say that most of the readers on this forum appreciate the views of someone like yourself who can present the perceptions of one detached from the American scene. I’m not exactly sure about your politics but I am sure that you could contribute many sagacious thoughts about the direction of our country.
Joe, I’m sorry that I have not seen your post earlier but that I do see it now, already two days after you have written it. Strangely, there was no reply button for your post so I just have to reply my own one, so that you can see my reply as well. Anyway, I was so surprised and touched at the same time because you have written so much interesting things. And I do really feel honored that you, as well as other users here, are interested into my non-American views and standpoints. It really took the rest of my fear away which I had when thinking about commenting on this website. And I am also still surprised what kind of a huge impact my post on this topic had and that I’ve received so many interesting and friendly responds! Especially due to the fact that trying to be a part in a discussion about the politics of a country where I’ve never been in my life can sometimes maybe be problematic, also because discussing politics in general is mostly problematic due to the many different views and due to the fact that I obviously do not understand much of the American politics (same with the German). So I’m really happy that I can take a part in these discussions!
Thank you very much of giving me a new insight about the meaning of Liberalism and its history! I’ve never heard the names Hobbes and Locke before and it is interesting that your founders have taken their writings as a “manual” when writing the constitution!
Thank you also very much for your advice to see the words shall and will as interchangeable. Again, I am so happy that you and so many others came here by free will to help me in understanding the English language in this part. I am still very touched by this because in real life I mostly don’t receive so much friendly attention when having a question.
About Capitalism I normally use the word when I talk about rich people that have no right in being rich and that even do believe that I and all the other normal workers are nothing more than just interchangeable machines. Here in Germany Capitalism has, as my mother explained it to me a few years ago, already become Imperialism, or let’s say Morganized (interesting as well because I read this now for the first time). Thousands of workers are misused in temporary employment companies. Companies that hire you but you work in some different company. The problem is in Germany that they hire and fire you as soon as the job is done. It happened to me. I was working 6 months in a slavery job. I’m a certified administration clerk with good skills in English as well as primary skills in Chinese which I try to improve but only the first 4 weeks I was working for one of these temporary employment companies as a secretary. Although it wasn’t my dream, after it was over they told me it is either working in a low payed helper job (8 Euro per hour / 35 hours per week) or getting already fired after 4 weeks. So the last 5 months I was forced to scan old dusty books like a robot and the bosses also treated us bad. I saw so many temporary employment workers coming and going during those 5 months. And shortly before the trial period is over (normal time is 6 months for working contracts) they throw you out because during this period they can still fire you from one day to another without having to obey the law. The other two jobs I’ve had since I’ve done my education in 2009 were not better. Lesser workers have to do more and more work. The burnout syndrome is a common problem in Germany. That is why I often use Capitalism as a, as you call it, swear word because I’ve only seen the dark side of it. And I hate it when people are shopping so much useless stuff, while on other parts of the world the people cannot even find food. Freedom and free enterprise are good but the way it is now in Germany is completely the opposite. And I tell you I was truly working so hard. In my first job, where I was working for a international flight company, I was out of home for 15 hours every day just for this job! I left my home at 4:30 o clock and came home at 19:30 o clock. It’s normally against the German law, but who cares here? And I tell you no matter how hard you work you never will get a promotion. But as soon as the son/daughter of someone higher arrives they get all they want. Even if someone studied biochemistry but is working in a completely different field that has absolutely nothing to do with that he/she will receive the promotion even if they don’t do all the work. And if that person is a woman they even have it more easily in receiving a job or even a promotion. I could write a longer story now but I think you get the idea of what I had to experience in my country. According to your words, many Germans would be unworthy by treating their people this way and I also see them like that.
Thank you very much for acknowledging me that my English skills are fine. I have to admit that I write every posting in MS Word first and check it for mistakes, but luckily most of them are just very small mistakes and I remember one English speaking woman warned me of not always trusting Word when it flags a word. It is good for me to receive this feedback! Thank you very much! And a short thing about German language: I do admire everyone who tries to learn it because we Germans are famous for having the most difficult grammar in the world and many Germans, just as I, have problems with it sometimes in the smaller things. Mine is the comma usage, although I finally have a good feeling of when to write one. But I also have to say that I am a passionate writer, which is easy to see due to the length of some of my posts.
Thank you so much again Joe, as well as everyone else in this nice and friendly community!