From KXAN:
On Jan. 17, former Austinite Terence Walker was on his way to AutoZone in Muskogee to pick up a part for his broken-down car. He asked a friend to take a detour and go to Old Agency Baptist Church so he could speak to his girlfriend Tia.
That was the last hour of the 21-year-old’s life.
Muskogee Police Department Sgt. Michael Mahan says officers were initially called to the church about an apparent domestic disturbance involving Terence and his girlfriend. Police said Tia had entered the church to attend a wedding but Terence was outside with a gun and asked her to come out.
When an officer arrived at the church, some words were exchanged and police said that’s when Terence took off running. While running, an item fell from him and Terence reached to pick it up, he then turned toward the officer. The officer fired multiple times, killing Terence. Authorities say a loaded semi-automatic pistol was recovered near his body…
What are your thoughts about the shooting? Was it justified? Was it a reasonable use of force?
He picked up what could have been a gun= dumb…
Beautiful…
“Right” or “wrong” is just the perception of the viewer. Although, I suppose I would have done the same thing. By now, I think the word has slipped out, you just don’t run from the police. You just don’t do it. Simple.
Interesting how we can all watch the exact same video and have such different perceptions of the indecent. And such strong opinions too.
Yep, regardless of others’ opinions, I suspect I would have done the same thing. I want to live.
“Right” or “wrong” is just the perception of the viewer. Although, I suppose I would have done the same thing. By now, I think the word has slipped out, you just don’t run from the police. You just don’t do it. Simple.
Interesting how we can all watch the exact same video and have such different perceptions of the indecent. And such strong opinions too.
Yep, regardless of others’ opinions, I suspect I would have done the same thing. I want to live.
Absolutely good shooting if it occurred as described in the written narrative. The video does not show much of what was described in the narrative, but good job by a single police officer trying to handle a deadly situation.
JB
He should have avoided the extra effort of running and shot him in the parking lot when he first got there.
Looks like justifiable shooting by the officer since the perp turned toward the officer with a gun. Case closed. Next!
He should have never tried to pick the gun up period! What was he going to do with it?
As an ex-cop, I had this exact thing happen to me in ’98. Luckily the perp missed and I didn’t. He(perp) lived to go to Prison, but the lesson learned here is, when a gun enters into to scene, shoot first, then worry about the consequences’. The old saying, “Better to be tried be 12, than to be carried by 6.”, is the final thing that entered my mind before I fired. Not my wife, kids, or family, but the court and the consequence’s of firing and taking down the perp. This is the absolute wrong mindset to have in this situation. Worry about getting home, first and foremost.
Hey Deathewithnotrial YOU F—ing moron !!!! you and all your homies get yourselves killed by not listening to simple instructions. The officer didnt show up there to shoot him as can be seen when he tries to arrest him. But instead homie runs then drops a gun he should not have picks it up facing the officer. I am not waiting to see what you plan on doing with the gun in your hand. I dont get paid to get shot by every asshole carrying a gun!!! If you think I am being unfair by arresting you then we can work that out in court. But if you have a gun in your hand and you face me with it i am going to do all i can to get the first shot and I will continue to shoot until i am sure you cant shoot back no matter how many shots that takes. I dont get paid enough to let some clown shoot me .Just like M. Brown this guy did every thing he could to make sure he died. Thats what he wanted and the cop granted his wish.
IF that was a gun he dropped, good shoot. Or IF the cop could reasonably think the dropped item was a gun, ok shoot. Unbelievably stupid (or brave?) bystanders arguing with the cop right after the shoot.
Well, my dad was a Sheriff and per his training, he was taught to avoid using deadly force if possible. The last thing a police officer wants to do is shoot a suspect and possibly take their life. It’s a last resort in an effort to save their life and protect the public. Granted, this is totally dependent on the officer’s independent judgment, and all officers receive extensive training in threat identification, escalation, and appropriate use of force. Sometimes that force comes from the end of the muzzle. We can’t pass judgement on cops who shoot suspects until the evidence is reviewed. I would stand to reason that most instances of officers using deadly force were completely justified in doing so.
StevieA
Where is you gun shop located so I can be never to visit. A true liberal demoncract running a gun shop???? truly
this proves AMERICA is GREAT as (I have no words to describe you ) to let you live here. Thank GOD and COPS
you can
I see a cop that just executed a man. No judge, No Trial, No Jury, NOTHING!! Just a prick pig that thinks he’s got the right to murder a man because the ‘law’ gives him supposed ‘authority’. WTF happened to my country!!! If they want to pick a fight, there’s doing a g0d d@m good job of it.
Wow, you are ignorant……just plain ignorant.
Hey Deathewithnotrial YOU F—ing moron !!!! you and all your homies get yourselves killed by not listening to simple instructions. The officer didnt show up there to shoot him as can be seen when he tries to arrest him. But instead homie runs then drops a gun he should not have picks it up facing the officer. I am not waiting to see what you plan on doing with the gun in your hand. I dont get paid to get shot by every asshole carrying a gun!!! If you think I am being unfair by arresting you then we can work that out in court. But if you have a gun in your hand and you face me with it i am going to do all i can to get the first shot and I will continue to shoot until i am sure you cant shoot back no matter how many shots that takes. I dont get paid enough to let some clown shoot me .Just like M. Brown this guy did every thing he could to make sure he died. Thats what he wanted and the cop granted his wish.
I see a cop that just executed a man. No judge, No Trial, No Jury, NOTHING!! Just a prick pig that thinks he’s got the right to fucking murder a man because the ‘law’ gives him supposed ‘authority’. WTF happened to my country!!! If they want to pick a fight, there’s doing a god damn good job of it.
You’re an idiot. Totally justifiable use of lethal force. If you want to live as a thug then you get to pay the ultimate price when you bring a gun into the scene with bad intentions.
At least the dude doesn’t have to worry about fixing his car.
Just another fight started by S.H. BLANNELBERRY.
Then I see all these liberal assholes commenting that shouldn’t be at this forum.
Unless of course S.H. BLANNELBERRY alerted them to it.
The video does no good at all for anybody.
Unless of course you want to diminish gun rights or police authority.
Every week I ask S.H. BLANNELBERRY to think before he puts this crap out there.
Do you suppose S.H. BLANNELBERRY has an agenda that needs to be exposed?
Am I the only one who notices this shit?
Too bad the officer did not wear a body cam in the Ferguson shooting or you would have seen a 300 lb gorilla attempting to beat down an officer while he was trying to get out of his vehicle. Then you would see the same angry monster attempting to take the gun away from the officer and use it on him while he was still in the vehicle, but after multiple shots inside the vehicle- the aggressor fled. When the officer attempted to arrest the suspect for aggrivated assalt, felony endangerment and attempted shooting of an officer with his own handgun- the suspect raises his hands (like a Japanese WWII war trick) turns around and decides to bumrush the officer. I would have emptied my handgun into that violent 300lb monster as well. The officer didn’t have a body cam so all the godless media and communists got away with their excuse to loot and riot and burn.
It appears to me that the Officer had less than a split second to decide wether that armed suspect who dropped his gun and was picking it back up while facing the Officer was going to shoot him. Goid shoot on what I see here. Officer did a good job also controlling the scene. You know as well as I do that person ( who should have been arrested also ) would have taken the gun and said he saw no gun. Here is a lesson. Dont carry a gun unless legally allowed to. If you are illegally carrying a firearm dont run/resist the police. If you do run and drop your gun, dont pick it up while facing a pursung Officer. Just abide by the law.
Happy ending for a cop that can shoot straight.
Another Cop gets a Paid Vacation after Murdering an American and getting away with it…Again.
Cops are WAAYY too quick to shoot and kill Citizens, the Cops of today are Chicken Shit Cowards.
Just showing your ignorance. how can you possibly stick up for this dumb thug, unless you have the IQ of a pickle or youre a dumb a** thug just like this guy WAS. Youd rather the cop wait until the guys shooting at him? Or worse the cop gets killed because he DIDNT pull the trigger. ANSWER ME THIS… why did the guy pick up his dropped gun if he wasnt planning on using it to get away???
You’re an idiot. He probably was having trouble with his girlfriend and had a gun to do her harm. IF you are STUPID enough to run from the police while carrying a gun -then drop it and TRY to retrieve it – YOU JUST ASKED TO BE SHOT. I can’t believe people are stupid enough to think this guy didn’t get what he deserved. I don’t care what color your skin is – or the officers ethnicity either. You have to really be a moron to do what he did and not expect to be shot at…..
It is easy to Monday morning quarterback an event like this shooting. It is much more difficult to actually be involved in a shooting situation. You have no idea once you engage someone if they are going to actually kill you or paralyze you or if you will do the absolute right thing which is what all policemen want to do. Everyone involved is scared, adrenaline is pumping, you are breathing hard and you have many emotions going through your mind and your body is not totally in control with your shooting or manual motor skills. You would be totally surprised to know everyone has the basic instinct is to survive. The majority of Police do not want to go thru a shooting scenario with the media and Grand Jury and everything that goes with it. Police are trained to know the law, shoot and don’t shoot and to basically use common sense.. Regardless of what training you have, no matter how tuff you are, anyone who can pull the trigger can take your life. You can go thru shoot don’t shoot training, knowing you will not get shot, and still make mistakes and shoot when you shouldn’t have. When it happens in real life and the stress and adrenaline is added to the condition, yes mistakes can be made, but 99.9% of Police in this country are good and don’t want to have to kill anyone. I can tell you from experience, I could care less what color anyone is, if they pull a gun on me and I am in fear of my life and am justified in using deadly force, I will never shoot to wound or stop. I will shoot to kill and if I shoot him or her 10 times and am questioned why, my answer will be because 9 wasn’t enough and 11 would have been too many. Police have a hard enough time in this day and time but they keep stepping up and putting their life on the line. The military is no different than the police in that we are struggling to survive. However, their enemy normally is plainly marked whereas police never know who the good ones and the bad ones are. (mostly) I guess what Im trying to say is, yes sometimes police make mistakes, but they are always put under a magnifying glass on every incident. Criminals on the other hand, are sometimes justified because they were young or black or female or were just stupid and brought a water pistol to rob a bank. If you were ever involved in a shooting in which you shot some young black kid who pointed a water gun at you, it would haunt you the rest of your life and no amount of prison could stop the images. Military personnel are killed by friendly fire and have killed innocents however are not scrutinized the way police are. When this happens, the images are still there for their LIFE! Can you imagine what the United States or the world would be like without military or police? Think about it. This officer was justified in the shooting of the suspect and its time people start putting the blame where it belongs. The dead crook, made a series of mistakes which cost him his life. Sad but true, and the policeman will have to live with the fact he took anothers life for as long as he lives. Cant we let him off the hook and instead of trying to get him indicted, thank him for his service of protecting the weak who cant protect themselves. I think the Marine, if he was one, has never seen any combat or he wouldn’t have said what he did. Never judge a person till you have walked in his shoes!
Thugs that comply, don’t die!
My answer to the “hands up, don’t shoot” B.S.
http://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/muskogee/pastor-reacts-to-release-of-body-camera-video-showing-officer-involved-shooting
if your armed an turn an run from a police man an you drop your pistol—-do not stop an pick up an turn toward officer—i you do expect that day to be your last. officer was righ
This shooting was clearly justified. You have a suspect fleeing the scene of a crime, the crime being stalking his girlfriend and possessing a concealed weapon without a permit. And what, mind you, did he intend on doing with that gun to his girlfriend? Maybe just threaten her, maybe kill her. Nobody will ever know, but a reasonable person can and should only assume the worst. However, back to the events, he fled, dropped the gun, then reached to pick it up and faced the officer. I’m so glad this officer was wearing a vest cam, because it shows he was completely justified in taking those shots. When are people going to learn that you treat police officers with respect, don’t resist arrest, and sure as hell don’t go to pick up a weapon and turn towards them? This is a no-brainer.
I don’t even see why there is any debate. Criminal ran, criminal stopped to pick up his dropped gun, rather than continuing to run. That tells me he was prepared to use it.
This person clearly felt they were above the law. This person ran from the law. Probably had his whole life (noted assumption). When you make a lifetime of poor decisions, it will ultimately catch up to you. When the black community starts to take accountability for raising their children to respect the law and take responsibility for their actions, this will stop. Poverty is not an excuse. Profiling is not an excuse. It takes both sides, but if one side stops fighting all the time, it will make it easier.
It’s sad that people just can’t learn to just abide by our laws! This guy had and showed intent from the get go. He went to confront his girlfriend with a gin, resisted the officer and ran, then when he dropped his loaded weapon he stopped to grab it facing the officer! Sorry the officer was Not given any choice because of the actions of the young man!
If we would just make it illegal for everyone to own a firearm then this wouldn’t happen. Just kidding, I’m sure he was legally allowed to own one and probably had a permit to carry. Maybe we need another couple of hundred laws because they seem to be so effective. No respect for authority. If you don’t run you don’t get shot, plain and simple. You have to look at the choices that put him into this situation. Nobody told him to go to the church and argue with his girlfriend. Not to mention if he drops a donut instead of a gun he probably gets away.
Our policeman are not hired/expected to take a bullet or be killed due to stupid lack of respect of authority. Lack of respect for authority &/or illegal actions = consequences. Plain and simple. When are these people going to acknowledge that their initial actions & choices have caused all these incidents. If legal, follow police directions then leave. If illegal, then you get whatever consequences you get, you have forfieted your rights. Simple! Come on people!
Justified. You expect the officer to wait until he sees exactly what was dropped? Cell phone? Wallet? GUN?
Should not have run, blame the thug for his actions not the officer for defending himself and possibly others.
Who knows what this punks intentions were if the officer didn’t show up he might have harmed the female.
Respect the law.
Has anyone thought about the girl ? If you went to see some one in Church, wouldn’t you go inside ? Were they having any problems in their relationship ? Was the weapon legal ? Was it possible that the reason he wanted to see her Outside of the Church , because of a dispute between them ? If so, could it have escalated into some possible violence toward the girl ? Seems like a lot of questions were not asked ? I didn’t see, or hear all of this, but apparently there was already a problem with this gentleman, otherwise, why were the police called in the first place ?
Oh course this officer had a right to shoot! Why does every black person think that because they can out run a officer, he has to catch them to arrest them? If you don’t do what they tell you, they have a right to use what ever force is deemed necessary to apprehend you! Period. If the tell you to stop and you don’t, then what ever happens is your fault!! The black man is responsible for his own death, as is the case in 99% of the time.
How much do you want to be that this guy is either from New England, New York, or is a government shill? Do you have any idea what it takes to condemn someone to death? Now a cop gets to make that decision because he doesn’t like being outrun?
You make take umbrage with what jon has said, but don’t take it out on the officer. Do you really think that the officer shot that man because he didn’t like being outrun? Surely you are far more intelligent than that.
I run a gunstore and cant tell you how many times I have heard cops say “I don’t chase them, I just shoot them”. The more time I spend around cops the more I realize that the “bad 10%” is in reality the “bad 90%”
Never trust a cop, they will kill you in a heart beat. This is coming from a 45 yr old white guy, not a brother.
My question is that in every single police shooting is this: What would happen to us if we were the shooter and not law enforcement? Would it be self defense or would it be manslaughter or worse? I know in this instance, we wouldn’t have the right to chase someone and shoot them, which is what police have to do in some instances.
The preacher of the church could’ve been justified on this one! In fact, it would’ve never been anything other than local news if it had been anyone but a cop that initiated the event.
Anyone would be justified using the officer’s actions. And anyone could possible NOT be justified, including the officer, depending on how they articulate their decisions and actions.
To all you people who think its unjustified..
If YOU were that cop chasing the suspect and he drops a gun, turns towards you to pick it up.. you wouldn’t shoot him?? To ME that shows intent to use it. Why else would you stop running from a cop to pick up a loaded gun?? IF the officer had not shot him, and had caught up to the suspect, do you not think the suspect would have tried shooting the cop to get away ?! He didnt pick it up because its a collector piece, he picked up his loaded, one in the chamber, cocked hammer, gun to get away BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY! Lucky he didnt try to hijack a car, or turn and shoot the cop, or even start firing backwards killing who knows who while hes running. The police officer made the correct choice instantly.. good for him. Hell get to see his family tonight unlike 100’s of fallen police officers. The ppl who think the cop should just keep chasing a clearly dangerous suspect through the street while said suspect has a cocked And loaded gun are freaking IGNORANT and out of touch with the real world. AND of course you shoot to kill, youre firing your weapon for fear of your and others life, you dont shoot.him in the leg so he falls and turns and shoots you! Duh!!!
I usually tend to side with the police in these situations. I dont feel as you have to be fired upon to shoot somebody. now what you don’t see in this video and I have seen it unblurred is that the guy does stop and pick up a gun off the ground. At which point he turned around from the officer and takes off running again.he never points the weapon at the officer.when the police officer actually startS to the fire the guy is clearly stood up and running away from the cop. I know it’s only a matter of split seconds between a justifiable homicide and shooting somebody in the back on purpose this in my eyes the guy was shot in the back if you get a chance to see the video unblurred you can see exactly what I’m talking about. I think they’re going to find that this officer shut the suspect in his back. although I think you should be able to shoot a suspect even as he is running away the courts are not going to see it like that. Good luck officer thank you for keeping us safe
I have not viewed the un-blurred video and I have only watched the blurred version once. I believe I have viewed enough to confidently suggest you broaden you scope of opinion for a second.
First, we are all “Monday morning quarterbacks” on this one. The officer did not have the privilege of reviewing a video prior to getting this call.
Second, the cop was justified initiating possible lethal force when the subject REACHED for the weapon he’d dropped. The officer is not required to know the thoughts in the mind of the subject before acting. Nor is he required to have super human reflexes that enable him to initiate his actions before the subject manages to get himself turned around.
I’d rather be a little slower with movements than decisions any day! Picture this; a cop is chasing you with his gun drawn and you know you are the bad guy in this situation. Now YOU figure out how reasonable the action of stopping to pick up the firearm you dropped is.
He was obviously running because he didn’t want to get caught with a weapons charge? He should have never tried to pick the gun up period! What was he going to do with it?
He ran from the police, shoot him.
That’s not a legit reason to ever shoot. Turning back toward the cop, bending over & picking up his gun & bringing it up “on plane” as he is straightening up himself IS reason to shoot him before he has the split second opportunity to start firing off rounds in the cops direction. (Incidentally, I am a different Larry.)
the only question I have: How many bullets entered the suspect’s back?
The obvious answer is – enough to stop him.
After reviewing the video several times, IMO this shooting was not justified. I did see the armed suspect turn towards the officer as he picked up an object, but I did not see the suspect actually pick up any item , aim or point any item. IMO, the officer fired “in anticipation ” of what he thought was going to happen. As a retired Marine, I do sympathize with what police officers have to deal with on a daily basis. But given today’s technology there has to be less lethal approaches. IMO, a fatality was not necessary in this case, but if the suspect would have complied, there wouldn’t have been one.
I had seen this video on another website last night. After reading your comment I went back and watched it again. If you pay very close attention, you will see that the suspect actually does bend over and pick up an item. According to the officer that item was a gun. I believe the officer because they did find a gun and I don’t believe that the suspect would have stopped running to pick up something of lessor value to himself. I would like to ask you a question. If you were in that situation there would be several things that occurred to you at once: There are innocent people in a car right beside the suspect as he stops and bends over, the suspect may have gotten away had he not stopped, so why stop if it weren’t to retrieve something of value to the suspect, the officer sees the gun on the road, and the suspect is not only facing the officer but looks up at him as he is bringing the weapon back up. As a Marine (Thank you for your service) you have been trained to act on split second timing. Well, so has that officer. He had milliseconds to process all of the above information while adrenalin was coursing through his veins making response time lag. The question is, what would you have done? I have not had the training that you or that officer have had (I served in the Seabees). But in my thinking, I would not have hesitated any more than that officer did.
Hey devil dog, let me start off by saying thank you for your service. Now, you must have served in the air winger side and not in the infantry with a comment like that. The cop is not going to wait for him to get shot before he returns fire. I’m sure he wants to go home to his family. You ever heard the phrase don’t bring a knife to a gun fight? That’s what you want the cop to do? Oh, he has a gun and he’s trying to kill me, let me mace him. Gee, I hope it works, I hope it reaches, I sure hope I hit him in the eye. No devil dog, that’s not how it works. I’m also a jarhead, 0311.
Where in the crap do you get off assuming cops are required to wait in line to be at least the second one to fire a round? And we don’t approach lethal threats with less lethal tools. Cops have the right to go home every night just like this Thug did. He just didn’t exercise enough thinking ability to make viable decisions!
Hey Irving, I’m betting more like maybe assigned to supply & logistics while he was in the service???????
mgj
While on the Marines, where you ever in a conflict were you shot “in anticipation” or did you just waited for “Tango” to shoot first? You CAN NOT compare Military and Police Work !!!
If the object that fell out of his pocket was anything but a gun, then it’s shaky. If the object that fell out was a gun, then ABSOLUTELY.
Either way, it’s all dependent on how the cop articulates his decision to shoot.
No respect for authority
He was asked about weapons and lied
He ran despite comands from authority
He died because of attitude and stupidity
None of it had to happen if he respected authority
He picked up whatever fell and then turned around and kept running(watch his shadow since they conveniently blur him out.)
The cop when he arrived immediately put his hands on the guy. No way in hell do you touch me without seeing me commit a crime. You can also here him pop his cuffs, which is what makes the guy jerk away.
He died because a trigger happy cop was trigger happy.
Yeah SteveA, I’m sure if you do the same, you would have been killed to. It’s easy being an internet tough guy but when it comes down to it, you will follow every direction a police officer gives you or…..you will meet the same fate as this guy did. I have no sympathy for the fate of the deceased. He made his choice……he chose very poorly and paid dearly.
Steve, you’re a moron! I sure wish you could be put in that situation just one time. It would be interesting to see what you would do, once the crap running down your legs stopped flowing. Dumbass!
Thank God the officer had a camera on his person. That split second that the subject picked up the dropped handgun he was a immediate danger to the officer and anyone close by. That was the instant that the officer correctly reacted. The subject caused his own demise. The officer was correct in his actions.
First, in any self-defense situation, you fire until threat is stopped. One shot could miss, or not effectively stop a threat.
Secondly, the officers initial contact with the person, was not threatning. Why did he run, he was at a church with many witnesses. The chance of “Police Brutality” was non-existant. Even when he ran, when he dropped his weapon , he had choices, keep running, why start running to begin with. Bad choices result in bad consequences. I thought he showed restraint with the Pastor, explaining he has a gun. In a situation like that a bystander Pastor or anyone, if they come in contact with that weapon, can become a threat. The officer in my opinion was within his right.
My only thoughts concerning police shootings , is that they never seem to shot to stop , but shoot to kill why not shoot the legs , arms, etc. Stop them , not kill them.
When you’re moving and the person you’re shooting is moving, you need to be supershooter to hit a limb. ‘Center mass’ is a surer and safer shot, especially for a police officer under stress.
Another idiot of “why didn’t he shoot the gun out of his hand.” They are trained to shoot center mass. When the threat stops then you stop shooting. They don’t try to shoot in the hand or in the leg because it’s a small target and the chances are high that they will miss. Also because if they miss the bullet is going to keep traveling and hit something else. God forbid it would be a kid. But you will be the first idiot to say why did the cop miss and shoot a kid. I rather hit the bad guy.
It called “Training”. We perform as trained because the training methods have been tested in courts of law, deemed appropriate, and have also produced case law that supports the methods we employ. Consistency is the word that comes to mind, also.
There is no measuring scale for shooting someone to be considered before implementing possible deadly force. Possible lethal force has no hand, leg, knee charts to prescribe when you should shoot what appendage. That’s not the way it works. Unarmed suspects dictate consideration of other tools available. Suspects armed with firearms get immediate and swift action with the same when necessary.
Keith,
I would love to see you in the same situation and lock your sights on legs, arms, etc…
Brothers in Blue, “Shoot until the threat is neutralized” CENTER MASS IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO !!!!
Your comment makes it clear you know nothing about defensive shooting. You should only ever pull the trigger if you determin a life is in danger. And when that time comes, aim center mass.
Obvious I did not see this first hand. But from the video, IMO the suspect never agresivly points the object at the police officer. He did in fact , turn towards the officer to pick up the object, but never lifted, aimed or even pointed anything at the officer. IMO , this officer acted way to fast and defiantly in a manner higher than the threat. I believe this one could have ended without a fatality. Officer could have backed off just as easily as pulling the trigger.
you’re a pussy…maybe the cop should have ran like the coward and pussy you are.
Awesome, well put.
Your statement, “I “believe” this one could have ended without a fatality.”, tells me you value the life of that illegal individual more than the innocent lives(pastor, congregation, girl friend, policemen, people in the vehicle) in the area he could have killed by his actions. Why is that? Obvious perpetrators do not/should not have the right to take a life before theirs is in jeopardy.
mgj,
So you’re telling me (a cop) that I should wait until the perp picks up his weapon that he dropped and decides what he intends to do with it before I protect myself and anyone else that may become a victim of opportunity??? He doesn’t get that privilege against a well trained cop. My senses and training dictate otherwise. The thug knew what the cop was about when he saw the car, the uniform and the badge. He still chose to play it out his own way and attempt to control the situation. He received what he earned, based on HIS actions alone. Comply with lawful order and maybe get a misdemeanor with a court date, unless the firearm is carried legally.
Let’s see here; Cop initiates contact for investigation, suspect flees and continuously refuses to obey lawful and reasonable commands, suspect drops firearm (that he informed the cop he did not possess), suspect stops to retrieve firearm while being ordered not to, subject obtains firearm and suffers consequences.
My opinion may not be wanted but; your statement that this could have ended without a fatality is more than likely wrong, because if the cop had hesitated, the cop would have, more than likely, been the fatality. Thug determined it was reasonable to lie, run and pick up his dropped weapon. How can you honestly theorize that the suspect wouldn’t have ever considered shooting his way out of this situation? He’d considered every action he committed so far to be a “good idea”. He could have also convinced himself that shooting it out with the cops to be a great ending.
I think all perps. should put there hand up and state there intentions as they try to kill me. But if you, mgi don’t comply with my orders to git on the ground instead grab a gun, you are going to be dead just as soon as I can make it happen!
there are plenty of openings for law inforcement officers…..you might try it for a while to see if you can handle it. as a retired corrections officer, i think your attitude will change.
You certainly have the right to your opinion, however I have been to entirely too many police officer’s funerals and this officer did and outstanding job. His response was text book and any less reaction to this threat would have been wrong and not even an acceptable course of action in a training scenario, let alone the real life situation it was.
People like to weigh in on these type incidents, however most do not have the training and experience to do so with any level of intelligence. Most do not know anything regarding the time lapse between action and reaction, and that will get an ignorant person killed.
I was concerned for the people in the car when the officer was firing the shots. But why? why run? why would he run? I first thought the officer might have touched a gun in the kids belt. I don’t know. The color of the person doesn’t concern me, the situation does. Tired of seeing anyone killed.
Your right on point Laurin! Why run? He obviously didn’t want to go to jail for the concealed weapon. Someone obviously called the police to report a domestic disturbance. He wasn’t driving by when he saw a young black man talking to a girl and decided to go shoot him.
When the deceased dropped his weapon, and turned around to pick it up that’s the point where the officer literally had to make a split second decision. Notice the timeline in the video when the deceased dropped the weapon, turned around to pick it up & when the officer fires. It all happened within 1 second! If people are tired of being shot by police officers, do what they tell you to do. They want to go home to their families alive as much or more than felons want to escape prosecution. Notice how many times the officer had to tell the bystander to back up! Personally, I would have arrested him for obstructing justice after the first 3 warnings. I don’t care about your skin color or how bad your English is. When an officer tells you to back up with a gun drawn in his hand(especially after he just proved that he’s not afraid to use it) personally I would do as instructed the first time.
Grow up Lauren. Disney world is not the real world.
Most of the police killing of citizens could be avoided. Most of the incident reveal their lives were not in imminent danger, yet they used deadly force. Their reasoning were “I thought he has a gun.” “I saw him reach for something.” In this incident, the suspect did had a gun but the video clearing reveal the policeman’s live was not in imminent danger when he pull the trigger. Why he need to pull the trigger several times? It is not needed because the first shot can put the suspect in submission or wounded the suspect and the threat could be subsided. This video clearly show this policeman intend to kill therefore he did it several times. I see he must be bring to justice for killing the man.
@Peter… why not approach this from a different perspective? The “victim” initiated the entire incident… from creating the disturbance at the church to running from the police… and you blame the officer because he didn’t wait until he was shot at first. You’re the problem in this country today… place the blame where it belongs, quit making excuses for the thugs and perpetrators in our society.
When a police officer or any person fires a gun there is no way to predict if that round will incapacitate the target. Only if the bullet hits the brain or high up on the spinal cord could the officer be certain that the conflict was over. The officer has to fire and continue firing until he is certain that the conflict is over. The bottom line is that you do not concealed carry unless you have a permit. Police are not legitimate targets, they can and will defend themselves.
Peter, it’s real easy to make bullshit commentary when you’re nice and safe from a computer. If you were chasing the suspect you would probably be dead because the suspect would have the jump on you. In the video it’s very clear the suspect was running, he dropped the gun, he stopped went back for the gun, bent down and retrieve the gone and looked right at the officer. From there it only takes a split second for the suspect to just point the gun and kill the cop. The cop is not there to take shots at and then shoot back. Also not every time one round will stop a suspect. You’re probably watching too much TV thinking one shot will stop him, or how come the cop didn’t shoot the gun out of his hand. STOP living in a fantasy world.
The suspect was there to kill his girlfriend. 1. Why did the suspect bring a gun to see his girlfriend? 2.I bet my life he doesn’t have a permit to carry. 3. Why didn’t he just put his hands behind his back and get arrested? 4. Why did he run? 5. After dropping the gun why did he go back to pick up the gun? I just saw 5 chances this bad guy had so he wouldn’t have gotten shot. But the cop is wrong? But I’m sure this bad guy was just turning his life around before he got shot, and he’s an inspiring rapper.
It’s people like you who don’t take responsibility for your actions. It’s always someone else is fault. The bad guy made all the choices not the cop. God forbid if you ever get robbed, or your wife gets raped, or they kidnap your kid, I hope you’ll be just as compassionate for the bad guys. And I dare you say he got shot because he’s black. Do not comment on things you do not know. You sound like an idiot. Your a loser. Be thankful there are brave men and women out there that will put there lives out there for you and me.
WOW!!!
Anytime a fleeing criminal has a gun IN HIS HAND and turns to face an officer, his life is in imminent danger of serious physical harm or death. Oh and BTW all laws state that the test is whether THE OFFICER (or armed civilian) thought he was in danger – not if you do. The SCOTUS has already ruled that flight from a LEO constitutes probable cause a crime is being committed alone. He drops a GUN – had he kept running – no shooting would have occurred, as if he was just trying to get away. The fact he stopped, picked it up, and turned towards the officer is more than enough to justify the use of deadly force. How about this..quit being a criminal committing domestic violence, quite running from the police, and quit grabbing for a gun when being chased by police????? This is a good shoot start to finish. And all officers are trained to keep pulling the trigger until the suspect is down and obviously incapacitated. Considering that most of us who train frequently can shoot 4-6 rounds in 2-3 seconds – I would not even raise an eyebrow unless he reloaded and kept shooting. In years past you were taught to double tap – bang-bang – then assess the effect. That proved to be very dangerous because even if fatally shot – if they are not incapacitated they are still a threat. So shooting multiple times is – in this day & age – wise tactical advice. If you are justified to use deadly force, and the chances are great you will kill them – there is no such thing as “overkill”. If you have to shoot them once, or 15 times to incapacitate them, that is fine by the law. The fact that the criminals intent was such – whatever it may have been – that when he accidentally dropped his gun his plans included having it, because he stopped to pick it up and then turned towards the police officer. That makes this a very easy shooting to determine that the officer was justified. There will be no indictment, no charges, and no DOJ investigation on this one.
Also – handguns are notoriously BAD at stopping a threat quickly. What the Lamestream media would have you believe is that they are VERY effective – Bloomberg falls into that category too. The FACTS show that handgun shootings are about 80% likely to NOT result in immediate incapacitation, which means only 1 in 5 chance for any single round to stop the perp. Hence – we train folks to shoot multiple times until you can confirm the criminal is incapacitated. You obviously can still be shot by a thug on the ground, wounded but still conscious or having effective movement. Good call Officer. Bad choice Mr. domestic abuser.
Wow Peter, I knew your post would draw a lot of attention, but dang!
First of all, no matter your argument, make sure your spelling and grammar is correct. Proof read what you’ve typed before you hit the enter button, and spare yourself needless snarky comments about your post.
Secondly, unless you’re a prosecutor, internal affairs investigator, an officer in a bad city do not offer unfounded statements like, “Most of the police killing of citizens could be avoided. Most of the incident reveal their lives were not in imminent danger, yet they used deadly force.” Or uneducated statements like,”Why he need to pull the trigger several times?”
Here comes one of those snarky comments I warned you about! It’s not, “why he need to….”; It should read, “why did he need to….” Statements like this lead me to believe that the DNC, or their major contributors hire people like yourself that know nothing, but their own greed or hatred of inanimate objects, i.e guns. Obviously you do not understand how to legally survive a potentially life threatening situation with a firearm. If someone wants to shoot and kill you, they don’t care how many times you shoot at them. That’s why if you have to shoot someone in self defense, you always shoot to kill. Unfortunately, many times that means pulling the trigger until the threat no longer exists, or you need to reload. They aren’t at the range shooting at paper targets from a rest. As seen in the video, they both sprinted for perhaps 30 – 40 yards before the officer shot the suspect. Officers of the law do not carry guns to give a warning shots, or take attempt assailants legs to stop them from running. Not only would that be cruel, but it would also be irresponsible.
Peter you ignorant slut! hope you never find yourself in a situation requiring the use of deadly force. But if you do please let the assailant pick up his dropped weapon and point it toward you ……let him fire a couple of times before you pull the trigger. I’ll be happy to send flowers to your widow.
Can you please learn to write? If so, then you will be able to read and realize that the deceased was threating his “girlfriend, which is why this officer was called in the first place. Do you understand?
@Peter. The first statement you made is an absolute fact! “Most of the police killing of citizens could be avoided.” AMEN! Your intelligence stops after than. If the police confront you about something, keep calm, answer any questions, and if you haven’t done anything wrong, you’ll be able to go about your merry way. If this guy wasn’t doing anything wrong, he didn’t have a reason to run. If you run from the police, that is an admission that you have already done something wrong, or you intend to. If you live like a thug, you die like a thug. There’s a simple lesson to be learned from this. “Don’t be a f*@king thug!
Peter, you are a complete and utter a-hole. It’s obvious you have never put your life on the line for anything. You must have voted for the clown in chief, twice!!!
Yes Peter most of the police killing of “citizens” could be avoided. If them “citizens” would do as they are told and not flee from the police then stop and pick up their gun they just dropped and then point it at the police officer…Yes I think a lot of “citizens” deaths could be avoided. Hope you never have to face the same scenario the justified officer did in the video. Because you would be another unfortunate statistic. Just so you know…if you fire one bullet at a police officer, you will get a minimum of two back. If you get the chance to even fire your one.
Peter, after reading your jargon I’m concluding you’re no different than any of these “thugs” that find themselves on the receiving end of an leo’s firearm.
When you drop and retrieve a weapon, then turn to face a pursuing officer, as soon as you point the weapon or even before in that moment of panic this establishes “intent”. If the weapon was NOT pointed at the officer it is still considered a “furtive movement shooting” and classically self-defense. In this case an actual weapon was found at the scene. This officer is not going to get indicted and if he does, he will waive a jury trial before a judge who will usually side with him. Given the level of danger inherent in his job it is very doubtful he will be convicted of anything – even if he didn’t have to discharge his weapon. Lesson learned: Don’t run from the police. And if you have a weapon, tell him and don’t touch it, flinch, or resist. And if you drop it, for Heaven’s sake, don’t try to pick it up.