A Georgia aviation insurance company will not be made into a target anytime soon. Thanks to a new company-wide requirement, all employees at Lance Toland Associates must get a concealed-carry permit and work armed at all times, with a gun on the hip or in the desk.
Lance Toland not only instated the policy, he went the extra mile and bought all of his employees revolvers. “Everybody in my office has one of these in their drawer,” Toland told WSB-TV Atlanta. “It’s a 5 shot .410, just like a shotgun.”
“I would not want to come into one of my facilities,” he added, for those intending to do harm.
These revolvers offer the option of using a wide variety of ammunition.
Once new employees receive their concealed-carry permit Toland buys them a Taurus Judge. Toland put the new policy in place after learning about several home invasions and assaults in the Atlanta area.
“They all literally had their concealed-carry permits within three or four weeks after me announcing that this was something you had to do,” he said. Toland has three offices in Georgia and everyone carries at all three locations. “With the presentation of their license, they all got a .410 Judge.”
Toland came up with the new office mandate after hearing about recent home invasions and violent crimes in the metro Atlanta area. He said he was concerned about his employees’ safety and decided to have his people take security into their own hands.
“I love it,” said Andrea Van Buren a Toland Associates agent. Van Buren said the policy was smart and that other companies should follow Toland’s example, provided everyone who carries gets proper training and becomes proficient with their firearm. “You have to commit to being ready to use it if you have to,” she said.
Toland said he expects other companies to put similar policies in place. “A lot of my clients are hi-fiving me when they hear about this,” he said, “They think that this is one of the best things they’ve ever heard; for a company to mandate gun ownership, to be licensed and to be responsible.”
See Also: Georgia Lawmaker Seeks Mandatory Training for Carry Permits
The Judge has been a runaway hit for Taurus and the company currently offers more than a dozen variants of the shotshell revolver. In addition to .410-bore shells the revolver can chamber .45 Colt, a good self-defense round with a long history of success.
Still, with the sheer number of compact single- and double-stack semi-autos dominating the concealed-carry market, some may argue that the Judge is less than ideal for everyday carry. It’s large and has a limited capacity, and many .410 loads aren’t optimized for short barrels.
The only way to know for sure is to open a new branch that requires employees to carry 9mm pistols, and see how many employees put in requests to transfer.
Lot’s of opinions on this topic veering this way or that.
First: it is the business OWNER’S decision to go with this policy or not. It is NOT the customer, guest, etc. right to force their opinion onto someone else, especially the business owner(s) (too much of this crap is common these days unfortunately). YOU have the right to bear arms (Second Amendment). YOU also have the right NOT to bear arms.
However, being an employee involves a contract (which every employee legally and voluntarily agreed to). Any employee that is anti-gun does not have to bear arms, and can also quit that job and go to an employer that doesn’t have this requirement. There are far more employers which force employees to DISARM, rather than arm (bear arms). So the “I can’t quit my job” excuse (bs) can’t apply here.
Second: as a business owner myself, I like and agree with this attitude, but I wouldn’t force this policy onto someone (employee) who doesn’t want to carry. I’m a concealed AND open carry proponent, but not everyone is; therefore, I don’t want to force my lifestyle on someone else, just like I don’t want an anti-freedom (anti-Second Amendment) person to force their lifestyle on me.
Regardless of my opinion, good job on this business and their attitude!!! All the best to you!
A Taurus Judge?? The S&W Governor is a much better example of a revolving shotgun than the Judge. As was said earlier, the Winchester Triple disc & shot load mixed with Hornady flex tip bullets is the way to go in a short range scenario.
Everyone likes different things. We are free to like different things in this country and that’s one of the great things about it. Free enterprise will fill most “likes” or “needs” better than any controlled economy. Socialism dictates what you can have. That almost always sucks.
What a great boss! I am glad to hear that PATRIOTS like this guy are still around. I support his idea and his choice completely. I don’t believe that the employees are forced to use the Taurus Judge for their concealed carry, though. I think it is a superb weapon for home or business defense. I have a Smith & Wesson Governor .410 GA/.45 LC/.45 ACP on the desk next to my computer right now. I own a Judge Public Defender as well. Since the Taurus is lighter, I prefer it for concealed carry. Defensive loads for .410 GA revolvers can be quite effective inside, where rooms are generally within the weapon’s maximum effective range. Also, shot shells reduce the chance of over-penetration. I load my .410 GA/.45 LC revolvers with shot shells in the odd chambers and .45 Colt rounds in the even chambers. I prefer the Winchester PDX as the first round as it has the most projectiles (3 Defense Disks + 12 BBs). Aiming “Center Of Mass” puts the Defense Disks around the heart, but still places multiple BBs on an assailants face. I like the Remington Home Defense for round#3 as it has the most large projectiles of the handgun loads ( 4 #000 Buck balls). If my first 2 shots did not end the attack, chances are I will be moving and I want the best chance of large projectiles on the target. In chamber#5 I load a Hornady Critical Defense (slug + 2×35 cal balls). This .410 shell had the tightest grouping and was most accurate on the range. Consequently, I can hit from further away. Overall, a most interesting article! I enjoyed the input from previous comments, too!
While I would welcome this, making it mandatory in the workplace is wrong, unless the the employee was told that at the point they were hired. Many LEOs have problems hitting a target, why should we expect an insurance agent, secretary, lunch lady to be proficient with a firearm. Many people that own firearms are dangers to themselves, should that be a reason to be forced to leave your job?
Forcing not LEOs to carry is as bad as taking away our firearms.
Do mandates not degrade the very principle of freedom?
Although I appreciate Mr. Toland’s stance on security and
his willingness to go the extra mile in purchasing the firearms,
I’m not onboard with the mandate part.
It should be individual choice.
With gun ownership comes a boat load of responsibility and I’m
sure some just aren’t willing or capable of taking it on.
It is personal choice. Anyone who works there is free to leave or not. I imagine that if an employee went to him and politely asked about carrying a weapon of their own he would probably be fine with that.
I agree that this should not be a mandate. There are certain people I work with that can carry a gun, but that I wouldn’t trust with just the bullet, trained (by state standards) or not! It seem it would just give the “active shooter” an extra weapon if that employee isn’t up to the moment, because they were mandated and not in the game mentally by choice. But with this mandate the reluctant employee may find out that guns aren’t the bad guy and be happy that they were forced to follow the first rule of a gun fight. 1. HAVE A GUN! Over all I like the concept and applaud this boss. I love this policy as an incentive plan not a mandate. Forced freedom doesn’t seem like true freedom. Businesses seem to be forcing a lot of things that they say are common sense (in their opinion) like mandatory flu shots, certain vaccines, no smoking at all. Maybe I choose to not have those chemicals in my body or want to enjoy a completely legal cigar on the golf course, however “policy” has changed. Now if I want to keep my house, car, food, and dog. I HAVE TO. Or hope and pray I can find a paycheck elsewhere. Freedom? The irony is that the policy changes I mentioned and the “must carry policy” seem to stem from insurance companies telling you how to run your life.
I carry everyday and think anybody willing to be responsible for themselves or family do the same. Not forced as a condition to put food on the table. I wish the federal government would step up and allow all law abiding citizens to carry anywhere so that our Rights couldn’t be questioned under business policy! I don’t see that happening anytime soon.
The best load combination for a Taurus Judge is a Winchester PDX1 .410 alternated with Hornady LEVERevolution .45 Colt rounds. The PDX 1 is a duplex load with 3 .36 caliber discs that hit center mass with 12 BB shot spread out around it. The LEVERevolution is a polymer tipped expanding round that have plenty of power and opens quickly to not penetrate to many barriers. This is the combination I carry daily in my Judge and have been for a number of years now.
Violent crime in Atlanta is as common as milk from a cow. Escaped from there 20 years ago for Montana.
Only problem I see with everybody being armed, is a little “cross fire” action happening. Other than that, good on them.
“Carrying” a firearm is NOT a Right; it is a commercial activity and a regulable PRIVILEGE…
Think about it… a Nurse — nurses; an accountant — accounts; a plumber — plumbs; a builder — builds and a CARRIER — CARRIES!!!
All those are regulable and licensable commercial activities and that’s why you can be REQUIRED to get a License to “carry.” How else can you “license” a the 2nd Amendment? I can’t seem to find a “License to Bear Arms,” can you?
So follows that “carrying a firearm” is a PRIVILEGE; to be distinguished from the RIGHT “to keep and bear Arms.”
please watch “Why you should NOT carry firearms” — https://youtu.be/8jeETxuT8Zc
and “Why Gun licenses are NOT law, they are commercial contracts” — https://youtu.be/r5kFwdJiCYk.
Therefore, fight tyranny — DON’T CARRY! — BEAR ARMS instead!!!
There’s a name for what you’re peddling and I’m not interested. I get enough for free from my neighbor’s horses.
My only choices are a Taurus Judge and a 9mm revolver?
I’ll take a 14 round Walter P99 and do a lot more damage. 14x.40 holes kills you pretty dead. Or even a 1911 A1 with 8 or nine rounds. Really, anything over a revolver.
I can just see some suspicious guy wandering into this office (An aviation insurance company? Do insurance companies have a lot of cash on hand?) and 14 people trying to shoot him with .410 shells. Office massacre, alright.
Do some research before you comment. I would hate to get hit with one of these across a room:
http://www.hornady.com/store/410-Critical-Defense-Ammo/
I like the idea of all employees being mandated to take the class and carry. However, it should be an individual choice whether they carry a 9mm or revolver. As a women I am more comfortable with a 9mm and it is easier to conceal. This is truly where most companies should be thinking – it protects their customers, and employees!
@ Doreen – And so it seems that it is a choice. If you click on the link toward the front of the interview, you will be taken to the Atlanta station which conducted the interview, and you can see the video of said interview. In fact, the woman in the interview, Andrea Van Buren, is wearing an open carry Glock automatic on her hip in no less than 3 different instances during the interview. It stands to reason that, a conscientious small business owner, who among all else in his business, is responsible for his employees while on the job site, would not take the training, registration, and updating of such a mandate lightly. I expect he has already placed annual updating and practice on the range as a prerogative to employment and the associated mandate for his employees.
I applaud his stance and his willingness to step up and donate, for some, maybe their first firearm ever owned and, for others, a sensible and very powerful short distance defense weapon that is quite deadly and also much safer than a large caliber weapon in the hands of someone who does not realize that a .44 magnum can penetrate numerous interior dry walls and still be very deadly to an innocent bystander. You should take notice that Mr. Toland never once mentioned that the Judge can also shoot a .45 long Colt I would assume that he has certain restrictions also in place for which ammo he wants used in the interior environment of his work buildings and the .410 would be, in my mind, the ammo of choice for short range self defense.
There are much better cc guns on the market !!! And also MADE IN THE USA !! ( 410 IS NOT A STOPPER }
4 pellets literally for the “across the room” scenario.. What’s a better option? I’ll always be a 1911 and Ruger Blackhawk fan but to give someone a sidearm and expect ultimate reliability especially for (some) novice shooters.. double action revolvers win out all day. You take a 410 000 Buck or even birdshot to the face, chest, or even the rear end from that range and then tell me its not a “stopper”. I’m not particularly a fan of the Judge, but this is perfect for what it was designed to do. I wouldn’t carry it out in the field, but in an office setting, that’s a pretty solid choice.
I would also implement a mandatory, annual training program that covers firearm safety, security and situational office threat scenarios.
I strongly second that. WE don’t need a follow-up story about how an untrained employee accidentally shot themselves or another.
What a GREAT story. It’s good to know that there are still some folks out there that will stand up to the criminals and refuse to be victims. I have a carry permit and would love to carry in the work place, but it is not permitted. I would love to give a big high-five to this gentleman. If only there were more employers like him, we might all be safer.
That’s one hell of a weapon for first time shooters to try to shoot. I think the recoil would hinder them from range time with it. I would have issued a .380 for women, and maybe a .45 or even 9mm for the guys. I know that sounds like a male chauvinist idea, but I’m just thinking about the welfare of the women.
The Taurus is what is given to them, as a gift, upon presenting their permit and they get to keep it in their desk. There’s nothing in the article that states his employees are limited to only having the Taurus.
I would have to think that other types of weapons are being carried by his employees, especially when not at work. “The Judge” isn’t exactly a weapon that lends itself to effective concealed carry. I would also have to think that since Mr. Toland’s motivation is for his employees to be safe, wherever they may be, they carry what works well for them.
I hope more employers follow Mr. Toland’s example.
I watched the news report on TV when this was first announced. One of the women was wearing a holstered semi-auto pistol, so apparently the Judge is not the only firearm they are permitted to handle.
I wish one of my employers had had a policy like that. Back in the late 90’s the credit union that I bank at was robbed several times. I suggested arming the tellers with 1911A1’s. Instead of doing that, they installed this insane airlock to entrance. No one in the management could ever explain to me how anyone would be able to escape the building in case of an earthquake (it’s located about 20 miles north of the San Andres fault in SoCal).
Given that I believe that requiring permits is unconstitutional for owning a firearm or carrying it concealed, I don’t like that part of his requirement, but it’s his business and he can require that if he wants. I’d lots rather he required a safety course.
Unlike DEMON-rats we conservatives MAKE criminals hear the “mandatory carry” part – RARELY do we FORCE anyone to accept nor participate – like the REAL FACISTS are = DEMON-rats. Where do you feel (not think) criminals chose for Victim? Schools? Unarmed locations???
Calling your opponents names is not conducive to them listening to you and maybe changing their minds about what you are trying to say to them. Democrats and progressives do that a lot. Do you want to be like them? That’s what you’ve doing by calling them “demon-rats”.
I think this is great. Hmmmm all this violent crime in ATL, hmmmm Huge, huge surprise…think about it. Wake_Up_America
Nice to see.
He cares about his workers, and he believes in our countries history and founding.
If you are interested in more info on the history of arms in our history, pick up a copy of Armed America by Clayton Cramer on amazon.
I enjoyed it and learned an lot.
I find the .410 Judge to be very brut force stopping power when stuffed with 000 buck. That’s four huge round pellets that keep a tight pattern at even 150 – 200 feet. Shoots holes through mild steel with no problem
5 .410 defensive shot shells at close range is a damn fine option for some desk jockeys. That may be the best concealable option if they aren’t expected to hit the range. I’d upgrade, but I’m happy to have an excuse to practice with something requiring more precision.
I wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end of a .410 slug,buck or .45LC or any combination of the three with in a room !