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The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said Tuesday that it received over 80,000 comments on the proposed framework for reclassifying the “armor-piercing” ammunition known as M855. That’s quite a lot of feedback.
The agency added that the “vast majority” of those comments were “critical of the framework.” To speak candidly, it seems as though gun owners and gun rights advocates basically told the ATF to shove this proposed ammo ban where the sun don’t shine.
Well, the ATF listened to those remarks and announced in the Tuesday press release that it would “not at this time seek to issue a final framework,” because it needed more time to “process the comments received, further evaluate the issues raised therein, and provide additional open and transparent process” before moving forward on the matter.
While those official comments have not been released just yet, they will be made “publicly available as soon as practicable,” there are plenty of comments on the agency’s Facebook page that aptly capture the tone and tenor of the collective response from the gun community.
Some of the comments on the social media page are funny, some are insightful, some are controversial and some are obscene. What one might expect from Facebook. But, needless to say, they make for an interesting and, at times, entertaining read. Because there were so many I decided I’d only highlight the clever comments.
Below are the best of the best, IMO. To clarify, the comments are in response to the Tuesday announcement that the ATF would not be moving forward with the ban.
“Well that was a colossal waste of time and tax payer dollars. Thank you.” — Dan Bennett
“‘Thank God for the ATF’ — No one ever.” — Wellington Shivelsworth
“4,489 people like the ATF page…do they all work there?” — Andrew Liptak
“How many agents are investors in ammunition manufacturers?” — Raymond Taber
“Better luck next time, you boot-licking, wannabe tyrant knuckleheads. Get bent.” — Mike Hutchinson
“Can you call your buddies over at the DEA and have them ban meth too?…oh wait.” — Andrew Amis
“Dear atf. Please choke and die” — Justin O’Camb
“Darn constitution, always getting in the way of power grabs.” — Jared Kinder
“So really what you are saying is ‘Stop emailing us and calling us stupid.’” — Randy J Hilliker
“Translation: People: 1 ATF: 0” — Ryan Clark
“Has anyone noticed we don’t have a free speech agency? Or a freedom of religion agency,??” — Chris Watson
“I see 80,000 people being closely watched! That’s right! Just leave a critical comment.” — Bruce Boren
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Know what an ATF Agent is?
A guy that really wanted to be an FBI agent but couldn’t get hired.
“I don’t always wipe my ass, but when I do I use the Constitution.” -Members of the BATF
“I don’t always wipe my ass, but when I do, I use the Constitution.” -Members of the BATF.
We hire government, and they do the opposite of what we want.
Thin them out, save money, and abolish many of the 3 and 4 initial agencies. ( too many to list)
This ban is not necessary any one can make a projectile and reload ammo that can pass thru a bulletproof vest or two I will not explain how.
William,
Explanation unnecessary. Any of us who handload already know how.
Somebody somewhere needs to do some research on the bullet proof vest the law enforcement Departments and agencies use. None will stop a bullet fired from almost all center fired rifles. The threat the police face are mostly from pistols and their vest will stop almost all of them. Ballistics are the problem with vests Pistol bullets are a lot slower and generate a lot less energy.
Example::
Hand gun: 357 Mag. bullet weight 158 gr. muzzle energy 494 ft-lb. Muzzle Velocity ft/sec. 1150 up to 1700 ft/sec.
Rifle: 30-06 bullet weight 168 gr. muzzle energy 3356 ft-lb. muzzle velocity 3,ooo + ft/sec.
To the best of my knowledge the only vest that will stop a round from a rifle are the ones you put steel plates in. Bottom line the M855 is no different that the rest of the bullets out there shot from a rifle they all are or could be Cop Killers.
Thank you
If I was a socialist-marxist mentally disturbed liberal and wanted to collect mass data about likely gun owners, which I would use at a later date, I would propose banning something. Then when we contact them, we give our name and all. So, we are caught in a catch 22, speak up for our rights and resist power grabs, only then to give the enemy your information, or stay silent. At this point….what difference does it matter!! Screw them, we go down swinging!!!! You want my info, so what, I won’t be silenced!!! Want some, come get some!!! They know all gun owners anyway, do you actually think they would get rid of gun purchase info? If detective can trace a firearm, (which they can) then our info is logged. Molon labe!!
Bolts and Arrows penetrate better than bullets, are they next?
All pseudo kidding aside, when is the nation going to wake up to the fact that the democratic party no longer wants to live in the USA, but want to create and live in the USSA?
If you take away the second amendment, you loose all the others. With the history of oppression and violence the Us govt has, (ask a native) voting away our right to bear arms seems stupid. If they ever succeed, the USSR will seem like a paradise
80,000 comments is piss poor when you consider the NRA has over 3 million members! And how many millions of shooters, hunters and gun owners are there in the U.S.? It doesn’t matter if you care for ‘assault weapons’ or not (a bullshit label). This ban would have been the beginning of the end for all of us. When the ATF comes back at us with this ban again, AND THEY WILL, many more of you need to get off your asses, donnate to the NRA and contact the ATF and you elected representatives. Stop being a lazy F***.
Great advice.
Well, perhaps there are more .223 shooters like me. Don’t get me wrong, I complained. I have 2 AR’s, an HBAR and carbine, a Mini-14 and an XP-100 in .223. I’ve been shooting these for over a quarter century and never fired a round of SS109/M855. But I bought a case of General Dynamics DEA overrun from Midway last week just to jump on the bandwagon. I’ll probably rathole it and keep shooting the $5.99 Tula from Farm & Home.
See what happens?
No matter what gets banned it effects all ammo prices and availability.
This whole thing is a complete farce as far as I’m concerned. I know AP ammo has been banned for pistols for a while, but has anyone talked about how many people out there who might actually try to carry an AR-15 pistol?? It’s ridiculous! I have one, but it’s so large and cumbersome I would never even consider it. The other thing that I’d like to know is why just pick on this round, when there are plenty of AK pistols out there too? I (and many of my friends think Obozo is going after law abiding white people and leaving his thug friends alone. Everybody knows gangbangers like the AK’s because of the price and dependability.
Wouldn’t it be easier and create more jobs to have cops wear ceramic plate armor plates ?
Impeachment/removal of this idiot in the Oval Office has been suggested. That would put Biden, an even bigger idiot, behind
the helm. No thanks. (That may have been BO’s ace-in-the-hole plan to stay in office all along………) .
Let’s get back to a Constitutional balance of powers.
Let’s make the presidential oath of office a binding and legal contract with American citizens.
Let’s support term limits.
Support a strong military, strong borders and less foreign influence in American policy.
If everyone is so enamored of executive fiat these days, then call for the reinstatement of Prohibition,
make tobacco illegal and totally ban marijuana nationwide. What??? No way?? You get the idea.
God bless America……..while we still have America.
You’ve neatly exposed the gaping hole in the “impeach Obama” argument. Joe Biden is a high-functioning mongoloid who shares all of Obama’s agendas but lacks the self-control and intelligence necessary to successfully move his bowels, much less hold the nation’s highest office.
It would put Biden in but I don’t think he is a Muslim Terrorist. At least he and his wife salute the flag unlike the other idiot and his other half.
With the current technology race to perfect ever smarter robots, millions of surveillance cameras including drones and mass electronic spying systems the Government may feel it needs to destroy the Second Amendment sooner than later if they want to succeed in resurrecting the Middle Ages complete with Serfdom. The high paying manufacturing jobs have long since been shipped over seas to create a class of “Super Rich” that through patriotic propaganda ensures an endless supply of fresh cannon fodder for new wars of military and economic conquest of the worlds smaller and less well armed countries. Terrorism did not come about because of a sudden outbreak of mental disease or religious fanaticism rather the real cause of such horrendous murderous vile acts are the result of smaller countries that are invaded by jack booted storm troopers tend to fight back the only way they can and that is with terrorism. If they had any brains they would have used Gandhi’s peaceful protest tactics. When Gandhi was asked by the British “What do you expect us to do, just pack our bags and go home?” Gandhi replied “Yes that is exactly what we expect you British to do, pack your bags and go home.” And in the end Gandhi won.
Or just turn their deserts into class and make pretty church windows with it.
Peace wont work on evil, it emboldens them to think what they’re doing works.
Kill them and don’t stop till your done.
Anything else is a joke.
The argument against this bullet doesn’t hold up at all. They want to ban a bullet that “can” pierce a vest because it might. There are many others that “can” pierce a vest, are they next? If that is the argument then why not ban bullets that “have” already killed cops instead of ones that can or might? Ban all .45’s, .38’s, .308’s, .40’s, etc. The only truth is they want to remove the second amendment and make more peaceful citizens subjects to ever increasing dictatorial government, period.
I came right out and told them that they didn’t have the Constitutional Right to ‘Ban’ anything to do with firearms. I also told them that ALL Federal ‘Gun Control’ and Firearms laws are Unconstitutional, including the 1968 Federal Firearms Act.
Given that the ‘Militia Act of 1903’ created the ‘Unorganized Militia’, which mandated that All males of military age and Veterans up to age 60 (considered old age at the time) were to be considered as members of the ‘Unorganized Militia’ and expected to obtain firearms and ammunition, of the type commonly found in military usage, in case they should be called out, by their State’s Governor, or County Sheriff, should the need arise. This means that virtually all of the weapons, that the Federal Government has sought to keep from civilian hands, rightfully BELONG in Civilian hands. Period.
“Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American . . . . The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.” — Tench Coxe The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788
“As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow-citizens, the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.” — Tench Coxe (1755–1824), writing as “A Pennsylvanian,” in “Remarks On The First Part Of The Amendments To The Federal Constitution,” in the Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789, p. 2 col. 1
Google your State’s Militia, and contact or join them, to see what you can do to be of any assistance.
Obama is for the 2nd amendment rights? Pull that needle out of your arm. Obama would give Michelle’s left nut to disarm Americans completely. It is part of the new world order bull sheet. I get so angered with all of these a’holes who don’t understand what the 2nd amendment’s purpose is. TYRANNY! If you are well armed and all of your neighbors are well armed and all of the patriotic citizens are well armed chances are we can stay ahead of Obama’s dictatorial schemes. Remember, history always repeats itself and those that don’t realize what is transpiring in the shadow government need to wake up and read up on the achievements of A. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Idi etc & etc. This is not the America that it was in WW II. Things change.
Your right rogue scholar, and I agree.
You may be more insightful than most when you made that crack about Barack giving up Michelle’s left nut.
OMG I’m still laughing.
I like to call (it) Mrs. Michael Obama.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA-tSKiyHP0&feature=player_detailpage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B418vtkQsY&feature=player_detailpage
With the ever increasing rise of police brutality and murdering of innocent citizens, is it any wonder why our wonderful government wants to decrease our ability too defend ourselves?
A rock is a threat to leo even spit is. They have been becoming very soft. Now their safety trumps the citizens safety. Officer safety is the new buzz word. And if Barney Fife is afraid then the hosing of lead will ensue, so watch out grandma. Speaking of lying al have you ever been to court. Remember its all about officer safety. Any leo heard that in training. Officer safety number is number one, your safety is way down the list if it is even on it. Just keep on trading your liberty for your safety its a good strategy.
It is nothing more than Gun Control and infringement on our 2nd Ammendment. Also, just about any hard object traveling as fast as 3000+ feet per second will go through any soft body armor the police wear.
“168 other types of bullets that can go into this gun.”
Of those, approximately 8 of them won’t penetrate ballistic vests.
The majority of soft armor in use by the various police departments isn’t even rated to stop knives. So lets ban all knives because they can pierce police body armor.
It’s about putting the american people on sanctions so they can be subdued and taken over by the one world order, just like they did Iraq before the Iraqi war.
It’s about putting the american people on sanctions, just like they did Iraq before the Iraqi war.
MORONS FMJ and so called armor piercing are far more “humane” than hollow point bullets. The bullet goes THROUGH and is a “CLEANER” wound = more than likely survivable! GENEVA CONVENTION only allows OUR MILITARY FMJ NOT hollow points for that REASON!!!! Libtard, Demon-rats, FACIST Agencies = “Progressives” = DUMB ASSES!
NOW search and SEE “Complete LIVES Chart” = DEATH CARE. Demon-tats EXEMPTEMTED THEMSELVES! WHY???
http://cassandraeffect.com/the-health-care-chart-that-will-scare-you-to-death/
10 year olds = 1/3 of a human! Zero – 2 years old = non human! 60 = 1/3 human, 80 – 1/20 human! Handicapped and “chronically ill” (2 overnight stays in a year, at a hospital) NO health care, only “palliative care” (DEATH CARE via http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/brompton+mixture )
WHO are the MURDERING Bastards??? You fascists, GO LOOK in the MIRROR :=) YOUR time is near – History PROVES this. History NEVER repeats – so called “smart fascist persons DO”!
UMMM….Yeah. ProAmerican, you might want to do a little research. These bullets are designed to tumble inside the target causing massive internal injuries. Might want to look up pictures of wounds caused by these rounds. The ones of extremities where they hit bone are the best. Real humane. It’s even better when you see them in person.
BTW They do make meds that will help.
Blasted cap you so smart. Im using ap and fmj bullets for all of my hunting needs from now on. I think you are as smart as the great BO and all of his followers. Btw what kind of meds or koolaid do you recommend Canabis, meth, Prozac?
New Town is the cry of the Liberal, the slaughter of those children rests at the feet of the Liberal. “Gun Free Zones”, the hew, and cry of every dumbed down Liberal. Every Psychotic, Paranoid, Waco that the psychiatrists put on psychotrophic drugs, head to the only theater in 15 square miles that has the sign they love to see, “Gun Free Zone”, No Firearms permitted. Time, after time we keep seeing the same old problem, Gun Free Zones kill people, they are a license for the criminally Insane to commit their atrocities. The medications these people are taking are extremely powerful, they make Anabolic Steroids look like sugar candy. The same thing always seems to happen, the Waco takes their Meds for a while, then they start self medicating, you see no one talks about the fact these Wacos seldom take their Meds as prescribed, no they self medicate. Than Boom, they go
Ballistic, look for a Gun Free Zone, kill a bunch of folks, then when the LE’s arrive, they waste themselves. Gun Free Zones should be very few. Schools absolutely Should Not be Gun Free. Teachers should be trained, and licensed in their respective State. In the Jungles of the Urban Black, Multiple Police Officers should be armed in every school, Period. That’s not the Obama, Period, it’s the Truth.
Funny that when they banned 5.45×39 7N1 for the very same reasons, nobody cared. Same goes for 7.65×25 and 9×18 with steel core. I do think if they say “we will leave M855 alone but in exchange we will ban all military surplus ammo, specially from Eastern European countries,” a lot of people will support that. Banning everything is ok and even fun, but don’t you dare touching M855.
Hey Lying Bastard, the cartridges you listed were banned evaluate they are all commonly chambered in PISTOLS! The reasoning being; they presented a very real concealable weapon platform’s (handgun,) threat against LE Officers. I think (I’m not sure,) the trend toward building AR15 PISTOLS is what prompted the arguement. Just sayin’
Anyone that’s fired an AR15 pistol can tell you why they’re not very popular.
Not entirely accurate. The ammo that was banned had a core entirely made of steel, while the 855 ammo has a 2 part core made of lead and steel. That is the legal difference that all this hinged on. The law says “entirely” not half. The other ammo was banned due to the proliferation of pistols so chambered and the armor piercing definition of the law. Seriously, we have to get rid of the “sporting use” language in our laws, The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with “sporting purposes.”
This was not about protecting police officers. It was about Obama taking steps to make our battle rifles useless. Why? Because liberals fear they can’t begin their end game until society is disarmed.
These Democrats have been caught on live mic’s have been caught saying just that but the insane thing is people believe when they say we didn’t mean it the way it sounded.
The only thing keeping terrorist from going on outright killing sprees here in the State’s is they know Americans are well armed “in most States that is” and they wont get far without resistance. We know they are here our current Government opened the doors wide for them.
Save our Constitutional environment. GO GREEN!
My .308 hunting rifle (or a 30.06 and many others) will pierce a Kevlar vest as well. Are they going to be next?
Yes….
If We The People sit by and let them get away with this i have no doubt 30.06 30.30 .308. ,270 you name it will be next.
There is no limit on stupid with these people AKA Liberals.
All those rounds , and any round is effected, if any round particular ammo gets banned.
The price and availability of all other rounds are effected.
When one kind of ammo is banned, people move on to the next.
Our Domestic Terrorist and Chief will think of all ways to take away your firearms.
This is an example of him taking the gas out of them, and rendering them useless.
Anyway, he failed this attempt, but will be back with something else soon.
Stand up and / or join an organization that does for you, like the NRA
If your already a member, upgrade to “Life Member” and / or start gifting friends and family with memberships
Too bad the ATF doesn’t have
a green tip. Maybe then it could
ban itself…
Too bad the ATF doesn’t have
a green tip. Maybe then it could
ban itself…
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.”
“When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.”
~Thomas Jefferson
First of all I haven’t heard anyone discussing these bullets with respect to whether they do penetrate police armor. OBTW, the thing that flies down range and does the penetrating, or not is the “bullet”. One consideration is that these projectiles have a steel core which is how bullets, that do penetrate body armor, are designed. But these M855 rounds were designed for greater penetration at the longer distances but they aren’t all that effective which is why they are being dumped on the civilian market. They are good for target practice and plinking. Nuff said.
Almost every rifle round will penetrate soft body armor that is used by most LEOS. That’s why the military uses ceramic plate armor. M855 is not effective for war or defense because of over penetration which is why the military stopped using it. It takes lots of hits to stop an enemy. The military does use it for target practice just like you and I.
Here you go; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikyzhv894N0&feature=player_detailpage
Keep out of our business and respect our constitution!
Obama should be removed from office for the good of our nation!
“I see 80,000 people being closely watched! That’s right! Just leave a critical comment.” — Bruce Boren
Amen to that comment!
that’s the government for you government over reach! they look for any little loophole they can to take our civil liberties away spit on the Constitution of the United States and the Bill of Rights the time for this kind of treachery is over we must go and vote these people out impeach him sign petitions remove the rats from the nest before they start to play again!
“Impeachment” only means being accused and brought to trial. It’s “CONVICTION” by the Senate of the impeachment charges that will get rid of this idiot we have in the Oval Office. It “ain’t” gonna happen.
180 some other bullets that won’t care if it’s a head or shoulder shot that is…. Leave the simply green bullet alone (for now anyway) and can we try to spend more time on the more important issues please. Maybe like the issues the president hasn’t faced that were promised or have been ignored. No, let’s overlook those, he’s void on those and may I ask why an illegal mexican can get more than my mom for insurance, housing and help not to mention an almost instant drivers license? No matter if she’s born and raised, worked and famished here all her life. No, let’s not bother on those issues. Wow this country needs a serious wake up and I truly hope we get one soon. Just my .02
Might as well make 80001. This is just another way for Barack Obama to go around The Congress and Senate.
He doesn’t care about your people , or the people of United States. He has an AGENDA and it’s to do everything
In his power to cripple the United States of America any way he can.
Barack Obama should be tried and sentenced for all the ways and all the things that he has accomplished with those Executive Orders. All those treasonous acts that he has committed against my country should not go unpunished.
I am in support of your comment, please make me 80,002
OK, 80,003…
Make it 800003
Don’t people realize almost all high velocity rounds will pierce the commonly used police body armor ! If the government is allowed to ban this round how long will it be before they start banning more with the same excuse?
Level 3 body armor will stop this ammo, which is what law enforcement wears. Search it on youtube.
https://youtu.be/oMYkEMhPsO8
Take another look at your video link, the one that penetrated was not the green tip. He tested the green tip last and IT DID NOT PENETRATE.
Do some research….level 3 armor will not stop this type of round. Level 3 is tested with 9mm and 44 mag. Most rounds in 223 and 5.56 will penetrate soft armor. Level 4 will stop it.
If they ban M855 on this basis, then every round that has the ability to penetrate soft armor will be under the axe.