A New York Times columnist believes credit card companies should combat mass murder by reporting gun owners to the police. (Photo: Wikipedia)
Gun collectors, competitive shooters, and hunters frequently purchase multiple firearms in a short span of time, especially during the holiday season. But a new column from the New York Times argues that credit card companies should monitor those purchases and report them to law enforcement officials as a way to prevent mass murders.
“If banks chose to use the systems they already have in place, they might decide to monitor such customers, perhaps preventing them from buying multiple guns in a short period of time,” columnist Andrew Ross Sorkin wrote in a piece published this week.
Sorkin claims to have reviewed “hundreds of documents” proving that eight of the 13 most deadly mass murderers in the past decade used credit cards to stockpile weapons, ammunition, armor, and gas masks. He believes credit card companies should use their fraud tracking systems to track “suspicious activity” involving firearms and firearm-related equipment.
“They have all the infrastructure in place,” Joseph Moreno, a former federal counterterrorism prosecutor and a staff member of the F.B.I.’s 9/11 Review Commission, told Sorkin. “A.T.F. is already involved in S.A.R.s task forces,” he said, referring to suspicious-activity reports. “It would just be tweaking it to consider firearm-related information.”
Sorkin points to James E. Holmes, the man who murdered 12 people at an Aurora, Co., movie theater, noting that he used a Mastercard to purchase $11,000 in “weapons and military gear” in the days leading up to the massacre. Along with a Glock, a shotgun, and an AR-15, Sorkin lists “paper targets” and a “shotgun sling” among the items credit card companies should begin tracking.
For their part, credit companies (for now at least) appear unwilling to begin tracking and reporting legal transactions.
Sorkin laments that “virtually none” of the major credit companies were willing to speak on the record “for fear of upsetting gun-rights advocates and politicians invoking the Second Amendment.”
“Some raised the prospect that by trying to help they would be held responsible if the system failed,” Sorkin noted. “Others made a slippery-slope argument: If they were to police gun sales, should they do the same for alcohol in an effort to prevent drunk-driving deaths?”
SEE ALSO: Exclusive: Financial Attacks Continue as Franklin Armory, RMR Bullets Report Discrimination
Visa spokeswoman Amanda Pires, for example, told the Times that “we do not believe Visa should be in the position of setting restrictions on the sale of lawful goods or services. Our role in commerce is to efficiently process, protect and settle all legal payments. Asking Visa or other payment networks to arbitrate what legal goods can be purchased sets a dangerous precedent.”
Still, the financial industry has caved in recent months to social pressure from anti-gun groups. Both Citigroup and Bank of America placed restrictions on the types of firearms and accessories sold by its lending partners, and big investors have pressured gun manufacturers to adhere to “gun safety” principles.
At this point, it’s anyone’s guess whether the credit card divisions of these companies will begin reporting gun owners for purchasing too many firearms – or paper targets – at a time.
Buy something, or look at something, online?
And immediately, the ads from the competitors show up everywhere, on your system.
The system tracks everything that you do, on it. The merchants, more than the credit card companies, track everything which you buy online, or with a credit card. The banks, track your cash withdrawals. All it takes is warrants, for the government to access all of this information. Or, a saavy hacker. Or they just do it anyway, in the name of “preventing domestic terrorism”, and just do not tell anyone in the general public, about it.
Your news feed on social media, your comments?
All of this, is tracked. All of this, is available publicly. This comment, is likely being tracked, and is being applied to my electronic file, as I write it. Actually posting it, is also duly noted.
Good Idea, and we need banks and credit card companies to report all abortions, all purchases of birth control, any and all motel-hotel room rentals and who is in the room and of course any and all sex toys must be reported to the FBI. We can form a special group of people to enforce these rules and we can refer to them as the SS or the Gestapo. Oh of course as happened before we need to ban knives, scissors and all sharp instruments. (Yes it’s sarcasm).
We used to teach kids Gun Safety in school. Now kids get suspended for having a Gun on a tshirt or having a water Gun in certain places. We have many More males being born who never grow up to become real men. Nothing to do with being tuff, it’s about teaching real life responsibilities.
It time to rid of bleeding hearts LIKE
LIBERALS & Democratic ASSHOLLES THE END
Mr Sorkin doesn’t see this as an invasion of privacy? Oh, I forgot it is only a violation of a persons rights if a liberal thinks it is.
What if a person wants to pay cash or if someone can’t get a credit card. I guess you are out of luck.
My pet chimp and I had a good laugh over that one. She stated that if a person wants to buy a lot of fire power, simply pay cash. I guess she is a lot smarter than the fools who thought that one up. Sigh!
Tracking the purchase of alcohol buys should similarly be initiated so that drunk drivers would be prevented from killing innocent people.
This is just one more problem with these News papers our privacy means nothing to them .
Reporters will camp out on your property and force themselves on you to get a story .
Yet they will cry when their freedom of speech is violated , what Assholes
They will take on the White House too .
all that would mean Credit Card Companies can violate your privacy when ever they want for any reason . Not good , that’s if they already are doing it without customers knowing ..
it is hard to believe that anyone could be stupid enough to come up with an idea as idiotic as this. but then due to the fact that they probably live in NYC and think they love the place explains how they can come up with an idea like this. God save us from these people.
We would save many more lives and be a lot more peaceful nation if we fined each and every so called journalist, $10000 dollars for every article they wrote or claim to have wrote, that has one word of fiction, made up statistics, lies, leading information and misinformation that can not be proven!
if a credit card co. that I have ever have starts this the card is gone anyway when I buy a gun I try and save up enough to pay cash
It might be more productive to track those that purchase the New York Times and report their suspicious activity.
Matt you win the internet today ! lol
Amen!!
Credit card companies have no idea what was purchased, just the name of the business and the $.
True story.
So none of this matters.
I think that multiple sales are already reported via the fed system..
No I don’t like the idea of private companies doing this (they’re even less trust worthy than the govt), but BATF combined with current/recent police/mental health contacts would be a good alternative to accomplish the same thing. An lets get large ammo purchases tracked as well. 21 years of age minimum and waiting periods for any firearm purchase (. This gun nut says the carnage has to stop!
What carnage?? Five times more people die from texting and driving, driving drunk, and driving is a privilege not a right. Doctor malpractice alone kills 250000 a year, most of which is preventable, that’s carnage!
CASH WILL BE KING AGAIN WHEN PURCHASING FIREARMS AND AMMO AGAIN. HOWEVER, THE GUY AT KENT STATE USED CASH. A HUGE ROLL OF $100 BILLS TO BUY WHAT HE USED. PERHAPS THE REJECT SHOULD FOCUS HIS ATTENTION ON ELIMINATING THE REJECTS, ONCE THEY ARE CAUGHT? REMEMBER, THE POLICE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY OF YOU OR YOUR PROPERTY! THEIR JOB IS LIMITED TO WRITING CITATIONS AND ISSUE SUMMONS! ONLY YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR PROTECTING YOUR SAFETY AND PROPERTY!
The funniest part to me was that he purchased a missile tube n no one cares . You’d think the idiot journalist we go freakin nuts over that .
I want to know what the heck a ‘missile tube’ is, that’s the biggest mystery here
Well now… welcome to the modern day 1930’s Germany.
I would agree with the NYT under the following conditions. They fully fund the mandate to the credit card companies, including salaries, new hires, computer systems to do it. Next any purchases flagged or denied do to suspicious behavior they did NOT result in an illegal use of the firearms would require payment to the affected individuals for defamation, possibly worse if something happened and they could not purchase a gun for protection. Require a $10 million policy per occurrence per individual affected. I’m sure NYT will have no problem putting their money where their mouth is. Except from what I hear they have little money, and are but a shell of what they once were.
If they agree to all that I’ll hope they flag one of mine so I can design my own home range on my 10,000 acres I’ll buy in Montana.
NICS, an asset of the Justice Department has better information than any financial institution.
Credit Card Companies response to NYT, It ain’t our stinkin job to monitor our customers, so bug off.
“For their part, credit companies (for now at least) appear unwilling to begin tracking and reporting legal transactions.
Sorkin laments that “virtually none” of the major credit companies were willing to speak on the record “for fear of upsetting gun-rights advocates and politicians invoking the Second Amendment.”
Damn right they will!
These people are nuts. They will not stop this insanity until “they” are “put down” like the rabid animals they are.
This is the new world order the liberals are desperately seeking and implementing one ridiculous piece at a time. They want to gut the Constitution and in particular the Bill of Rights.
Be prepared for the outrageous and new levels of fear mongering, half truths, made-up facts, and faux statistics when the new Congress goes into session.
Great idea? Let’s check ALCOHOL SALES, DRUG/PRESCRIPTION PURCHASES, CELL PHONE BUYERS; ALL THESE WILL STOP drunk drivers, opioid overdoses and texting while driving, saving THOUSANDS OF LIVES!! Let’s also track PAPER/INK PEN PURCHASES to make sure someone who calls themselves a “journalist” is tracked to MAKE SURE THEY PRINT THE TRUTH INSTEAD OF AN EDITORIAL!! Government is already too involved in our personal lives, tracking emails, phone calls etc. which is supposed to be ILLEGAL..
PAUL ALLEN, WHO HELPED START MICROSOFT, AND THE MORON BLOOMBERG EACH DONATED A MILLION DOLLARS APIECE TO HIRE PEOPLE TO STAND IN SHOPING MALLS TO COLLECT SIGNATURES TO GET A NEW LAW PUT UP TO VOTERS IN WA. STATE AND THEN THE WORDING IN IT WAS MISLEADING ON PURPOSE SO PEOPLE WOULD VOTE IT IN. THANK GOD IT IS HELD UP IN OUR COURT SYSTEM AS WE SPEAK. WE SHOULD BOYCOTT SOME OF THESE PEOPLE”S COMPANYS SO THEY FEEL IT IN THEIR BILLFOLD! PAUL ALLEN CROAKED ABOUT ELECTION TIME LAST FALL, I GUESS THAT WAS GODS WAY OF CLEANING UP PART OF THE MESS WE HAVE HERE.
Talk about finding a “needle in a haystack”.
There’s an on-line source for paper targets. Been there for years.
Download one or two that you like and print out as many as you want.
Targetz.com
Sorkin’s article went to a whole new level of stupid. He needs to have his First Amendment rights revoked. Apparently, he is not of sound mind and not capable of using this right in a responsible manner. If he writes, or even speaks again, throw his ass in prison for about 10 years.
Over 10 years ago I purchased a firearm from a gun shop using a USAA CC. My wife received a call from USAA advising her of the purchase. I found that VERY odd but never followed up. So, it’s already happened.
I would have immediately closed that credit card account. It is NONE of their goddamned business what I buy and it it not their place to report ANYTHING I buy to ANYBODY!
Lot of time and money to POSSIBLY prevent .0003% of crime.
Stupid, just stupid.
Well, they want us to allow the same % point of the population to share our restrooms. Cross dressers are perverts so why is this so different. Transgender equals mental illness, this mental illness requires me to carry in the restrooms. Majority rules my ass, we are expected to make these people feel accepted which is fine I guess as long as I can piss in peace. They won’t be entering the rest room while my wife or daughter is in there I can tell you that much. Oh yeah, they want to raise the age to 21 for gun purchases so my kids cannot protect themselves in the restroom for a few more years.
And I suppose there’s a guy with a clear, green visor cap, some arm stays, wearing a searsucker shirt and a string tie, sitting at his old, wooden roll top desk, combing through millions of charge receipts trying to decipher who bought what where, when, why and how it might be used.
Then this little man behind the ancient wooden desk with the banker’s lamp shining over it from the mantle, must open a drawer, pull out a crystal ball, and call upon the ancient spirits to divine who might be a mass shooter.
And then the banks have extreme liabilities for calling it wrong.
I call B.S. on this one. Who’s with me?
GOSH, I have read that most murders in AMERICA are initiated by criminals (FELONS) that have used STOLEN guns or purchased via CASH, guns from other criminals who previously robbed a person or business to obtain?
HOW are authorities to track these purchases?
I find it interesting that all the progressives love fascist policies to curb anything they don’t agree with. I’ll bet they can’t wait till they can build some gulags and reeducation camps.
THEY HAVE GULAGS ALREADY/ THEY’RE CALLED FEMA CAMPS. NOBODY IS IN THEM YET, BUT THE ARE FULLY MANNED AND MAINTAINED
I know they’re violating credit card company rules, but every gun shop I’ve visited in the state where I live charges anywhere from 3% to 5% extra if you use a card, so I always pay cash. Only place I’ve ever used a card is Cabela’s, and how would the credit card company know if I’d paid for a gun, or a kayak, or fishing gear?
If NYT is suggesting this, it’s old news. For as long as CitiCorp, CapOne, Bank of America, Synchrony, et.al. have been antii-constitutional, you can bet they’ve either already been monitoring or have surely thought about it.
NYT is always a bit slow. . . .and quite stupid with what and how they publish. I haven’t read it since JFK was murdered.
It sure seems that NYT has long ago turned the corner where extreme ‘liberal’ meets extreme ‘conservative’. There is now no difference and they have nowhere to go but totalitarian. . .along with the remainder of what passes for ‘journalism’ and ‘reporting’ these days.
CitiCorp = Sears, HomeDepot, Tractor Supply,
Bank of America = Merrill Lynch
Cap One = Cabela’s, Bass Pro Shops, Menards
Synchrony = Lowes, Musicians Friend, Walmart, Sam Ash
Since Guns America accepts all major credit cards, when will be see a Guns America credit card? My guess is we won’t.
Synchrony also = Amazon PrimeI dropped Primes this year and frankly won\’t even shop Amazon anymore.
This proposal is akin to the situation we already have with the FBI background check system. Out of the hundreds of thousands of checks delayed each year, they prosecute less than a hundred… And I have yet to hear that any of these prosecutions stopped anything more than the illegal purchase of a firearm by a prohibited person. This is just another “feel good” solution to a non-problem and the path to massive expansion of already bloated government bureaucracy and a police state.
Furthermore, I don’t imagine I’m alone in purchasing accessories and ammunition along with any new firearm so I, as well as millions of other law-abiding purchasers, would be flagged, at least, bi-annually for $1,000+ purchases. I’d much rather have my tax dollars spent on law enforcement activities that would actually prevent crime, not just create more make-work and sate the overblown imaginations of gun control zealots.
The purpose of Law Enforcement is not to “stop” crime, that is up to the individual. The purpose is to “solve” crimes that have already happened (and collect revenue that can be used to rent votes). The suggestion that your particular crime might be one of the few that is actually solved is supposed to discourage crime but does nothing to make crime even difficult, much less impossible. Look into “clearance rates” and “cold cases” for any major city or your own city and see the reality.
Corporations are not going to add to their expenses without some type of incentive, so very likely something will be buried in a bill, that appears to be completely unrelated, to provide the incentive for them to track firearms related sales.
Then, all that will be required is another something buried in the same, or another unrelated, bill that forbids dealers from selling firearms related items for cash. If you think this can’t happen, try renting a car or reserving a room without a credit card.
I can now see why the NYT turned a blind eye to the activities of Adolf Hitler…
Walter Duranty of the New York Times actually lied about the mass murder and mass starvation of millions in the Soviet Union in the 20’s and 30’s and won journalism awards. The NYT has covered up way more crimes by communists and liberals than there have been mass shootings in the US. Apparently lining up thousands of people a day and shooting them has a different definition than “mass murder’ or “mass shooting” when communists are involved.
Oh great. Turn millions of law-abiding gun and shooting sports hobbyists into “suspects” if they make credit card purchases that bother anti-gun paranoids. Kudos to Visa for recognizing they’re a financial services company and should stick to that. Others, such as PayPal, already pass judgement on people exercising their rights–they don’t accept gun & ammo dealers.
Too bad “cash only” limits your purchase options these days. But some online dealers do take direct electronic bank draft and may even give a slightly better price for using it. Though your bank will have a record of what business got the money, there is no data kept by 3rd parties as to what kind of stuff you bought (well, except for the federal forms at your transferring FFL if applicable).
his fucking comment section thinks I am a spambot whatever that is. It wouldn’t let my comment be accepted unless I selected two characters out of six or seven. Then when I tried to comply the fucking thing would only let me select one stinking character. Fuck you you stupid spambot detector. you suck.
As if we don’t have enough privacy issues as it is, add more. George Orwell was 70 years ahead of his time. Big Brother is watching, probably on my Skype camera right now. Now, wheres my electrical tape to cover that lens.
That’s it !!! from now on I am gonna purchase my supplies with paper IOU’s …
NYT bringing us one step closer to the next revolution…
Don’t let them fool you. This is happening now. Multiple credit cards, stellar credit rating, no late payments ever. Never had trouble making gun, gun parts, ammo etc.. purchases til now. Recently Discover has been flagging all the above named purchases. Declined at Brownells, Southern Tactical etc. Other non gun related charges go right through. Have to use another named credit card to work. Have to call in to Discover to get approved. Called in to complain said not normal buying habit. Can’t even buy a knife. “Tactical” gets flagged. Goodbye Discover.
Appreciate the information about Discover. Our Discover cards are going through the shredder today!
Well NY Times is just a stupid as they always are. I never use my card to make any firearm transactions. Problem solved. Morons!
This is totally unneeded and allowing for “Big Brother” to enter our lives. The FBI though NICS and some states track firearms sales. Since hunters purchase multiple new firearms for the seasons (hunting and gift giving) as a lawful action and this is already tracked through NICS, what does this do for us? Why would tracking paper targets point out a possible mass murderer? I purchase bulk paper targets to save money. I purchase bulk ammo to save money. Neither of these imply that I am a mass murderer; only that I wish to save money. What advantage would tracking ammo and targets do other than force a payment solution to review all transactions for tracking our lives? Are we part of a dictatorship? Are we a part of a socialist regime? Yes, we all want mass murderers identified; but adding the expense to a payment solution to review every transaction for the type of items purchased is not the solution. As a retailer, I know that my payment solution does not receive any information about what items are purchased, just the transaction amount, the card holder identification for security validation, and returns an approval or denial. Now some tracking idiot wants the payment solution to receive a record of who purchased which items, a method of payment, approve or deny the purchase payment, and report to several Federal Government departments who purchased what and when? How insane is this? Why increase the transactional costs for everyone to review a minor subset of items? Is this how we as a people are using our resources? This idea is an off the cuff knee jerk reaction to addressing a terrible social ill that has no chance of working while expending tons of money at the retail, state, and national level.
A more basic question – how well does this work for any other illicit material precursor purchase? We’ve had the war on drugs for 40+ years now, but not made a dent in the problem. If we cannot find meth precursors, why do we think that this will make a difference here?
That’s why I only use cash when purchasing 9″ paper plates. They’ll never catch me!!!
I always use cash when I purchase 20 rounds of washers……
Yes tailgunner Joe McCarthy was correct
Wow…the NYTs is really getting their “1984” on.
I guess ‘suspicuous activity’ would eventually be defined as ‘ a gun’.
Perhaps we should start monitiring mainstream journalists and some of these investors and large banks that are gun grabbers for “suspicious actuvity.”
McCarthy was right -there are communists among us. Lots of them. He was just several decades too early.
Right time, right message, wrong guy. Too late now, their in charge.
Yes, and explains Trump’s cozy relationship with Putin!
Dan: Every time I read a comment like yours’ I’m put in remembrance of an insecure little boy who can’t understand why other kids won’t play with him. It’s sheer torture for the kid because he has no social point of reference or a map showing how to get there. So, he’s stuck in his ignorant little world crying himself to sleep at night.
So, you must be maybe twelve years old now, eh? It’s that awkward age when boys don’t know whether to sit on Mommy’s lap or shake Daddy’s hand. President Trump’s relationship with Vladimar Putin should be the least of your worries right now. In fact, you’d better damned well hope their relationship is a good one or your dumb, little ass could be shot to hell in a foreign land. Nah. Never mind. You wouldn’t have the balls.
Dan the fact that you even still bring that up after it’s been proven to be 100% false shows how bad your parents failed you.
FUCK THE NEW YORK TIMES!!!!…STAY OUT OF MY FUCKING BUSINESS ASSHOLES!!!
So much for invasion of one privacy.
Guns, Hoes and Weed/ cash only.
‘…. as a way to prevent mass murders.’ ….What’s next? …Minority Report? lol!
Our credit cards were frozen and we were contacted by the issuing company and I was told they were concerned about the purchases I had made with the cards, 3 pistols ammo, groceries, extensive clothing purchases, I had made alot of purchases with the cards in a short period of time, keep in mind no late payments or other issues. The reason for all the purchases was that our home had burned with many others in a wild fire and we basically had the cloths on our backs and needed everything, we moved a trailer onto the property and began mandated site cleanup, during that time I killed three rabid skunks with the 22 target pistol. Was it because of the pistol purchases? Who knows? We never heard anything from all the Gov agencies and charitable organizations except to ask for donations. just the D—- at the credit card company.
Actually, that was your credit card company having your back. They likely knew you were in an area ravaged by fires and could have had your card looted from the ashes and used to make as many fraud transactions as possible before getting shut down. They are using fraud detection algorithms that aren’t 100% reliable so they call you, the cardholder to verify that the charges are legit. I’m kind of glad they do this because it saved my bacon when my card number was hacked and used to run up $300 at a convenience store in South Carolina, whereas I reside in Texas. The CC company called me to verify and of course I told them hell no it wasn’t me so it got stopped right away.
If only that had been the case, it wasn’t the accounts are still frozen four years later. I get it that it looked suspicious so many charges, but when buying a firearm a lot of paperwork needs to be filled out and approved, each item. To the credit card company it was suspicious someone would be buying guns paying their electric bill, buying groceries, etc. basically living off the card in their view. After telling them what happened there was no change, I had broken some new unknown rule. My reality was I live in a rural mountain area, wildlife can be a real threat, traveling to town would require me to have about 6/7 hundred dollars in cash just to buy groceries, fill the tank, propane etc. The story goes on for two more hours and then I cry at the end for dramatic. The reality in a catastrophic event is you are on your own, help in any form is not coming.