Another showdown between open carry advocates and the men and women in blue has folks talking.
This latest confrontation happened down in Houston, Texas, where a member of Open Carry Texas (OCT) was detained, handcuffed and placed in the back of a patrol car after being stopped by officers with the Houston Police Department.
The OCT member was carrying an AR-15 when he was stopped by the officer, who apparently was responding to a call about a man wearing a kilt and carrying a rifle.
“Do you have ID on you,” the officer asked in the video. “No. So, how am I supposed to know whether or not you’re a felon?”
Frustrated by the OCT member’s response about not “consenting to questioning,” the officer refers to Second Amendment as “constitutional crap” and “constitutional bull****.”
Houston Police Chief Charles McClelland told KHOU that the department will now be investigating the incident.
Meanwhile, OCT leaders are not happy with the way in which police are responding to their demonstrations.
“Open Carry Texas demands that Houston Police Officers cease their harassment of law abiding Texans,” OCT President CJ Grisham said in a statement on Facebook.
“Further, dispatchers need to be better trained to ask follow up questions of citizens making calls for service. It doesn’t take much effort to determine the difference between an open carry advocate and a criminal. ‘Is the individual pointing a gun at anyone?’ ‘Is the individual carrying the gun in his hands?’ ‘Is the individual acting suspicious in any way other than just having the firearm?’ ‘In what way?’” Grisham continued.
“These simple follow-up questions will prevent a needless diversion of public resources to areas where they are needed most,” he concluded.
I believe in the 2nd Amendment; however, this type of foolish behavior on the part of the citizen is detrimental to all.
As best I can tell from the video the Officer was respectful and professional.
I may have placed a call on the Kilt wearing attention hound myself.
I respect the way the Officer did his job and failure to be able to identify yourself is IMHO a perfectly legal reason to detain a person,
As the Officer clearly states: “If you have no ID how can I know you are not a criminal with a weapon?”
Grow up people; respect is a two way street and disrespecting an Officer is a dead end road.
Say what you want about rights, oaths and ID’s. If your carrying around an AR to “demonstrate” you’re a childish fool. And idiots like you Will Be the end of the seccond ammendment just as much as any liberal politician. You do it as a dare. You’re like a kid jabbing thier finger in somebodys face while chanting, “I’m not touching you! I’m not touching you!” Sure “Shall not” means “Shall not”. So does “Well regulated”! Grow the heck up!
Want to avoid draining resources of the HPD? stop walking around with your firearms without ID. Checking people to make sure they are allowed to possess firearms seems to be the least you should expect when carrying any firearm openly. If it had been concealed they would probably never had gotten called. And you would not be the first person shot by some psycho with a firearm who wants to shoot as many people as possible due to jihad or his mentally ill mind.
Ok, then just to be sure we understand the Constitution, you will be sure never to speak politically in public, without proper ID, nor assemble, and God forbid, don’t attend church without the proper papers.
Great mindset Kerry – give the cops the right to stop you when you’re not committing a crime. Surrendurung your personal liverty is never the answer. You should be ashaned of yourself.
Spell check brother, it’s your friend. Spelling is critical to defending your viewpoint, don’t defeat yourself in such a simple manner.
Dan, if anyone here should be ashamed it is you brother. Most states require you to carry a state ID once you are at least 16 years old so it would be a crime to NOT have it on you if you in fact do have one. And again, you need to be able to prove you legal to own a firearm so not having your ID is just asking for this kind of trouble and attention for 15 seconds of fame on TV. I sure this would not have been an issue if the person had ID and could prove they are legal to own and carry a firearm. Yes of course the police would rather not have a citizen walking around with an AR-15 on their shoulder but it’s not illegal in some states so they have no choice but to let you go about your way if you are cleared to have a gun.
911 Dispatcher here. I’ve taken calls like these. Dispatcher training isn’t going to help when you have an anti 2A on the phone screaming hysterically. Pretty typical of a PD to try to shift the blame to the telecommunicator too.
Apparently the office does not know the laws in the state of Texas. There is no legal requirement to identify or show ID in the state of Texas unless, you are operating a motor vehicle, you are placed under arrest ( being detained is not under arrest), you are a convicted felon. If you are openly carrying a handgun then you are required to show your CHL if stopped by police.
think maybe thats wrong in itself. everyone on the street is required to be able to identify themself at any given point. what if this guy was a felon, and was going to destroy someone i.e. ex girlfriend / boyfriend whatever. and this officer was the only one to prevent it. What would you say to that. I love CC and one day wish OC could be an option, but do you really want people like this making up what all the anti-gunners consider us to be. is this the stereo type you want. I don’t.
No sir. No law says that you have to “present papers” just because you are in public. This isn’t communist China or Cuba.
You are not required to provide ID unless the officer has probable cause to believe you have committed a crime, or you are operating a vehicle, where you have agreed to present ID as part of the contract to be licensed.
hard fro me to believe that there are so many on here that don’t even know the laws but jump up and say you can”t do this or you should do that. i open carry in my state and don’t care if it upsets someone or not i’m not braking any laws and the best part is i don’t go around thinking i’m better the those who like to CC like they do to ones who OC. they’re no better then the ones that think their better then others because they make more money or you pick one others think their better then others for any number of reason’s. i CC until we passed the law to OC and i have never had any problem from anyone or the cops not one.
but you CC people go on and blow your own horn about how you’re so much smarter and a much better person then OC people who from all i’ve read never go around saying that your ASS WIPE like y’all do.
We have open carry in Ohio, But the rumor is the last person that attempted it was arrested and ticketed for inciting a riot
So can you open carry or not?
IMHO it’s gotten way too complicated( too Many Laws) besides toting an AR down the street in broad daylight is just asking for trouble actually a known felon would know better
God Bless Texas!
people who cc instead of oc because they are concerned about frightening other citizens and causing uneccesary strife with LEO’s are better people. they are better human beings and better citizens than you. they are also more intelligent and more responsible than you based on some fairly objective criteria. i could try to explain that to you, but i cannot understand it for you. i just hope you dont get yourself or an inoccent person hurt one day because you lack the good sense to voluntarily conceal yor weapon.
Um, no.
Those are all ridiculous statements, Carter. They’re also 100% wrong. You also don’t sound like you’re in any position at all to judge others.
From a tactical perspective, OC people are the first targets in an armed robbery.
In most cases, and interviews with convicts have proven this, if a criminal sees a firearm on someone, they likely not commit the crime, and move to an easier target. Criminals in most cases, do not want to get into a shootout.
Open carry people always seem to be aggressive , ready to argue with anyone. Big chip on the shoulder. CCW people are smarter, we know it’s Breaking any law, not braking any laws.
Scotty, we’re all supporters of 2A. Open-carriers are actively fighting to further those rights doing just what you saw in this video. Why are trying to divide us?
This officer should get a commendation.
This dumbass, should be charged with interfering with his investigation. What if the guy is a terrorist, gets several other officers to respond……easy to ambush. He should have his gun permit revoked and brought up on charges. He sheds the most negative light on those of us that are law abiding, thoughtful and respectful CCP. citizens. I was thinking that he probably is an anti-gun rights advocate. Perfect characterization of who the anti gun antagonist represent.
This person was looking for a confrontation. Misuse of our law enforcement resources at the least, placing someone else in jeopardy since he’s not out helping and assisting while dealing with this mentally disturbed individual.
Absolutely! This person was looking for a confrontation.
I wouldn’t argue the right to open carry an AR15 any more than I’d argue the right to walk down the street in a Kilt. But I wouldn’t hesitate to argue that if you combine the two, and leave your identification at home (or just intend to refuse to show it) , then you are either very naive or spoiling for a fight.
Reasonable and responsible gun owners and enthusiasts are almost universally in favor of sensible policing and we support law enforcement. Seeing erratic or irrational behavior of a person carrying an AR15 in public, is all the reason any LEO or alert citizen needs to be concerned.
Most problems in this World can be avoided or solved by using common sense combined with common courtesy. (Although both seem to be less common than most of us imagine.)
This guy deserves to be arrested. Along with the right to carry, also comes the responsibility to carry responsibly. This Cop showed remarkable restraint and courtesy. He should at show ID. The officer is right, how does he know who or what he is, a terrorist?
Exactly! There is a responsibility you have to yourself and to the other people around you to be a safe courteous responsible individual when dealing with firearms. This video and this person is obviously attempting to get a argument and/or a fight out of anyone, but especially law enforcement. What kind of person walks down the street today without some form of identification and then is stupid enough to refuse to help police identify them as a potential or non potential threat?
This is the extreme that everyone sees that helps turn people against carry concealed or open carry laws. I would not want this imbecile carrying a weapon in public.
By the way, no id or money is called vagrancy and he should have been hauled in.
So, you all agree that in America, the so called “land of the free” , that we can’t exercise a Constitutional right if it cause some one in authority some annoyance? And you also believe that it is only right to be stopped for looking like you MIGHT BE doing something suspicious? And best of all, you believe that you must carry your gov’t issued “papers” to travel about just in case the authorities want to know your business? Wow! What a lot of sheep we have in America pretending to be patriots.
It is amazing how many groveling bleeters actually think they have the independent thinking required to successfully win an armed confrontation.
They would voluntarily surrender their pink pocket pistols and report for mandatory arm tattoos if they saw a bulletin at Walmart.
True Patriots don’t need them, can’t count on them and laugh at their idea of “freedom”
Ok then. You can no longer express you political opinions in public anymore, as that might incite a riot! You are no longer allowed to wear a cross in public because it will offend someone, and could cause a violent reaction.
You folks who are ok with the cops reaction ARE the problem.
I am glad to see that so many at this firearms blog understand the place of the police. How abuse of power and violating individual rights of citizens is justifiable and welcome when it fits your mold of a secure state.
The police have a responsibility to know the law and to respect our individual rights. These are not options, they are requirements for the job.
That argument could be used to justify cops stopping people for any reason. How can you not see that?
Like someone else said , exercising your rights and being an asshole go hand in hand in this case. This guy carrying an AR-15 down the road is a complete idiot. I have a CCP and I respect the law and the way I carry is concealed for the simple reason of not making people around you in public weary of a weapon, I guess in a way I respect the public, also. People can carry ,but do it with some couth will ya !!!!!! These cops did a great job considering this guy is a buttwipe !!
It would have been so simple to just show the officer his ID. The way I understand it we supposed to carry a drivers license or Texas ID card. But either way these officers lay their life on the line every day for us. So the very least you could do is be polite. I am very pro gun but the guy with the AR was very wrong and just plain rude.
“You vill present your papers immediately, or you vill be shot!”
No thanks.
So let me get this straight. It’s ok to have Police detaining people here in the USA when there’s no probable cause of them having committed a crime? The fact that you’re promoting that as good and right is utterly mindboggling.
The police in question should be fired.
Funny, “I’m gonna be a dick, but can you push my glasses back up on my face?” What an AHole!
I only had to watch a minute of that to work out the guy in the kilt was a complete cheeser. I can shit my own pants if I want to. It doesn’t mean I should though. The policeman should spin that vehicle by the car wash, it needs a clean.
That cheeser just did more for the second ammendment (and personal liberty in general) in that 20 minutes than you’ll do in your whole life.
This open carry guy is an asshat, the Houston policeman performed nothing short of admirably and professionally. Patience of Job is right!
Oh right. Screw the Bill of Rights, screw individual liberty, screw the guy out there doing good while we all condemn him from our keyboards (because that’s really all we do – ever – instead of going out and fighting the good fight).
The King of England? This guys a DA!
The civilian with the gun was intentionally trying to provoke an incident as I see it and was unreasonable in refusing to provide identification.
Exercising his rights and being an asshole just for the sake for it, are two different things.
MY Street? Since when are we serfs walking down this king cops street? Have to carry ID? Does “papers please” ring any bells? The right to remain silent. Some of you do know what this means right? Sorry but this cop violated several constitutionally protected rights, INCLUDING the the second amendment, which is the ONLY one that states quite clearly”shall not be infringed”.
I really don’t give a damn about how many calls the police received. Instead of going all natzi germany storm trooper on the guy they could tell those calling to shut up, the man has the right to do what he is doing.
And the excuse of I don’t know if your a felon makes no difference. If the guy was breaking no law then leave him the hell alone.
Dude, it’s alarming that so many others here don’t see that the guy never should have been stopped to begin with. He exercised a personal liberty and right. Cops gave him trouble for doing it. That should make us all mad, yet these brainwashed folks seem to love it. Funny that they root for the cops – until its a liberty they care about that’s being crapped on.
Dan, you get it. these other poster’s are sheep. They are happy in a Police State.
I get the supporting of 2A and 1A rights but there isn’t a need to be a uncivil with police. How hard is to to answer his questions. Then have a nice day. Put your self in the cops shoes and see how you would like it.
Then you don’t get supporting 4A rights, do you? Look, there is SCOTUS case law in Terry v. Ohio that sets both the requirements and the limits of consensual stops, investigatory stops, and arrests. Once ID is demanded, it becomes an investigatory stop, and must be justified by reasonable suspicion that a crime has been, is being, or will be committed. Simply being armed is insufficient, according to SCOTUS.
And please don’t play the “walk a mile in his shoes” game. I don’t have to be a master chef to know when the soup sucks.
Big whoop…..so the guy in the skirt with the pretty blue sneakers (latest tactical uniform) had a point to prove…..hope he was satisfied. Thankfully for him, this cop had the patience of Job…
Next time he might run into one who perceives him as a threat. Jerks like this give us all a bad name.
Couldn’t agree with you any more Seve. Being at one time PD, I do know some cops would have not taken this moron’s bullshit. These goofs in Texas that run around the streets w/ a AR15 strapped to their side give all us gun owners a bad name. We a one time had a good name w/ Starbucks until these morons went in w/ AR’S. Thanks Texas. Oh by the way , i do like the state and their people. Don’t mess w/ Texas surely didn’t mean to F%^K UP OUR CARRY RIGHTS THOUGH.
You so-called 2A supporters who insult and criticize OCT, yet you cannot recognize a 1A redress of grievance with government using protected symbolic speech when it smacks you in the face. Some of you are the first ones in line screaming “the Second Amendment protects all the rest”, yet you whine like little children when the OCT folks exercise their First Amendment right. Don’t you see what this is? It’s a protest in Texas, by Texans, about a Texas law that prohibits open carry of the ostensibly less-offensive holstered handgun.
As a retired military veteran, I swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. That oath had no expiration date. Do you think I was a happy puppy when the Supreme Court ruled that burning the flag was protected symbolic speech? Of course not. But it is the law of the land, and as much as I have disdain for anyone burning a US flag except for proper and respectful disposal, I will not speak publicly against it.
Bloomberg’s strategy has been to take this local, one-state protest and portray it as an infection sweeping across America. People in blue states are worried about open carried rifles in their local Target store, yet it’s likely they’ll never see one in their lifetime. It’s all hype, and you bought it hook, line, and sinker. Divide and conquer.
Some of you should be ashamed. All rights need to be respected, not just those with which you agree. Think people!
Amen!
Absoflippinlutaly
Well said Rich – thank you!
No, you are not required to carry I.D. or to “show your papers.” Not in America. http://www.knowmyrights.org/knowledgebase/faq/police-encounters/when-do-i-have-to-show-id
Amen to that. I’m really alarmed that people don’t know this stuff – they’re so conditioned that police and the government are always right (or always have the right to exercise all kinds of power that really isn’t theirs). It’s truly scary.
Open Carry is bad for the gun-rights movement. It’s a sideshow and even the NRA is sick of them.
It’s furthering 2A. I still support the NRA but they’re not right about everything.
You idiots get all butt hurt when you inevitably get detained. Further you state that the officers violate your “rights” by doing this. FYI in Texas there is a statute called disorderly conduct with a firearm. Look it up and maybe they won’t instanter your dumbasses if you’re lucky.
Then why did the cops let him go?
What in the heck is this OCT guy even being allowed to carry open? Oh. My. Lord. If and when the law passes in Texas to open carry, THEN carry, but I agree with the above sentiment. Stop being a jackass. It’s not the law, it’s not the unspoken rule of the land, it’s illegal to carry open. I’m all for concealed carry and have my license to do so, but this guy needs to be told I’m now uncertain terms, DONT. DO IT. You are making all of us who wish to carry legally and as law abiding citizens look like the gun toting rednecks that the idiots in Washington want to portray us as. Demonstrate all you want, but don’t effectively provoke the cops by acting like an fool.
The cop sure forgot his oath in a hurry.
Yup. To many cops their own power and personal ego comes before anything else, including their oath (which many seem to really not take seriously anyway).
This OCT is a Jack Ass. Cop is doing his best to try get this situation under control. People like this just make it bad for us people that are Pro Gun, this gives ammo to gun grabbers.
needless, pointless confrontation. what’s the upside to this?
It’s one thing to exercise your constitutional right to carry, but it’s another to intentionally provoke a LE officer who’s just trying to do his job. Personally, if I saw some guy walking down the street in a skirt with an AR-15, I’d suspect he was whacko-bananas and call the cops too. They have a duty to respond and assess the situation. By not carrying any ID and refusing to answer any questions you’re making it very difficult for the officer to do that assessment. This guy’s a jerk, and I’m embarrassed to have him the rest of us who support the 2nd ammendment. In my opinion, Open Carry Texas has done more to harm their supposed cause than to help, and that makes me wonder who these people REALLY are.
Its a KILT …….NOT a skirt…………WAKE UP!!
Yes its legal to walk down the street with a weapon in plain view…No its not legal to be above the age of 18 and walking down the street in the US without a valid form of ID. The fact that this guy can legally buy and own that kind of high caliber semi/full automatic weapon without knowing that fact scares me.
You are completely incorrect about the ID. The fact that you can legally (I assume) buy and own that kind of high caliber semiautomatic weapon and make such false statements here scares me.
.223 AR is “high caliber”??? Not in the real world. In fact, a number of states ban .223 ammunition for deer hunting, since that caliber cannot reliably take down (dependably kill) big game. Some pistols are more powerful than an AR!
“… semi/full automatic…”?? Private ownership of fully automatic weapons has been outlawed since 1983 (even the exception regarding ownership of “grandfathered” automatic weapons – manufactured prior to 1983 – requires special licenses and expensive additional fees). Where do you get the idea that a private citizen has unfettered access to full-auto weaponry??
Trevor, did you look up the law somehow I doubt it. In Texas you do not have to show ID when stopped by the police unless, you are operating a motor vehicle, you are under arrest which requires you to have broken the law which this individual has not done, you are a convicted felon, not my responsibility to prove to the officer if I am not. The fact is that openly carrying a rifle in a fascist environment controlled by the Democratic Party is stupid but not for the reasons people think. The fact is that Democrats only care about the rights that allow you to engage in immoral and unnatural behavior. The police are not above the law whether they think they are or not, they take an oath to uphold the laws of the state they work in and the Constitution of the United States. It is not the right of the Police to decide which laws that they will abide by. Unless the officer witnessed the guy in the kilt breaking a law he should have minded his own business.
The stupid kilt wearin idiot needs an education on the rest of the laws he was breaking by not carring some for of id
Actually, the OC Gentleman did nothing wrong, including not carrying an ID. Maybe the stupid comment making “don” should actually know the law before making stupid and factually incorrect statements…..
The kilt wearing idiot needed to have some identification on him thats part of the law.thats how he wouldnt have gone to jail
“The kilt wearing idiot needed to have some identification on him thats part of the law.” – sorry but I do not understand your comment. This citizen was walking on public sidewalk and not breaking any law when stopped. What law do you think requires you to have ID on you when in public?
I have no problem with this cop. But have lots of problems with this open carrier. Use your brain, your fucking it up for the rest of us.
This happen in texas?? I thought texas u can sling any rifles and texans are suppose to be well adopted to guns?wtf!!
the anti gun crazies don’t need anymore trash to talk about us.
OPEN CARRY DORKS…..Please stop. You are not helping us.
Why would anyone ever say that you should stop exercising your rights?
No one is saying you should stop exercising your right to party. But you should stop exercising your right to being a dumbass. Whoever shot this video was clearly trying to make a point (and a bad one at that). Unfortunately for them in this situation they come off sounding and looking like the idiot.