Our pets’ heads are fallin’ off!!!
That’s kinda how I feel at the moment. What I mean is that who woulda thought that a year into Trump’s presidency we’d be watching the National Rifle Association — the nation’s preeminent gun rights organization — make a push for bump stock bans and firearm surrender bills? Not me!
Because really, that’s where we are right now!!! What happened to the Hearing Protection Act? Concealed Carry Reciprocity? Those goodies that we were led to believe were imminent with the election of The Don.
In case you’re not following me, the NRA-ILA’s chief lobbyist Chris Cox publicly supported extreme risk protection orders (ERPOs) in a video Monday. It’s embedded above.
On the issue of ERPOs what the NRA-ILA once referred to as “firearm surrender bills,” he said, “We need to stop dangerous people before they act. So Congress should provide funding for states to adopt Risk Protection Orders. This can help prevent violent behavior before it turns into a tragedy.”
“These laws allow a court to intervene and temporarily remove firearms when a person threatens violence to themselves or others,” Cox continued. “To be effective and constitutional, they should have strong due-process protections and require that the person get treatment.”
Let’s literally rewind the tape to Feb. 27, 2018. In a notification titled, “Maine: Firearm Surrender Bill to be Filed,” the NRA-ILA warns the reader about these dubious ERPOs.
SEE ALSO: DOJ To Regulate Bump Stocks as ‘Machineguns’
The NRA is “freedom’s safest place.” Make sure to donate today! 😉
“Extreme Risk Protection bills allow for the issuance of protective orders to infringe on Second Amendment rights based on third party allegations and little, if any, real evidence and limited ‘due process’ for the respondent,” said the NRA-ILA.
It goes on to say that, “Constitutional rights should only be restricted with proper due process of law,” suggesting that these ERPOs treat the 2A as a “second-class right.”
Tell me, please. Because I’d really like to know. What’s changed from February of this year till now? Those NRA-ILA criticisms of ERPOs are as spot on today as they were back then. Right? So, why the change of heart?
As I’ve said in the past, my beef with ERPOs is that it’s nothing more than a nanny-state gun grab. Dangerous people have guns, aahhhhhh! What can we do to stop them? I know, let’s shred the Constitution and lower the evidentiary bar for what constitutes a dangerous person and start grabbing guns from everyone! If we’re wrong, who cares, those dreaded gun owners can always get their firearms back after a lengthy and costly appeal in court.
I’m not even joking. Trump said it himself during that gun control powwow at the White House earlier this month, “A lot of times by the time you go to court, it takes so long to go to court, to get the due process. I like taking the guns early.”
This is not good. Not good at all. Our pets’ heads are fallin’ off.
When the take the guns and leave the dangerous person on the street, they will find another way to it. So this is nothing more than a gun confiscation.
The NRA has gotten it’s LAST penny out of me! Simple as that.
And, if this goes on the Trump campaign has gotten their last donation as well.
After listening to Cris Cox I will be giving serious reconsideration to encouraging my students to join and support NRA.
You should encourage your students to join the Gun Owners of America! It is the only NO COMPROMISE gun rights organization in the nation. Wayne Lapierre pissed me off long ago! I accused him and other NRA leaders of caving to anti gunners to often in order to keep their members in constant worry to bolster membership and keep their cushy jobs and I will have nothing more to do with the organization as long as the current leadership is there! After Las Vegas massacre Lapierre immediately caved on bump stocks and when you start banning firearm accessories you have stepped onto a slippery slope!
I think crazy people with guns spectacularly shooting up crowds is currently the greatest threat to all of our 2A rights. We need to separate guns from crazy people and GVRO’s are a good idea if done right. I didn’t notice any constructive suggestion for how to solve the problem of crazy people shooting up crowds in the long-winded rant from Mr. Blannelberry. I think this is a good thing.
The problem with these orders is the potential for abuse, at some point, couldn’t anyone, sane or crazy who owns guns be a danger? To some people if you own guns you are crazy and dangerous. There are currently enough rules, regulations, laws, covering the very issues, all of this to me is a sickening diversion from the real issue of Government failure by the previous ad min, in Florida they dropped the ball, admit it and fix it, and stop making law abiding citizens criminals.
“We need to separate guns from crazy people.”
“We need to stop cars from crashing.” “We need to stop houses from catching on fire.” Sure, concentrate on nothing but pre-incident prevention (pre-crime, if you will), and the antis win — because you are doomed to failure. You can NEVER prevent crime, and therefore there will be ineffective law after ineffective law until none of the law-abiding people has any rights whatsoever.
Instead, concentrate on “how do we best save lives once the s* has hit the fan?” We supply airbags. We market smoke detectors. We require sprinkler systems. We honor the rights of all law-abiding adults to defend themselves and others in known trouble areas.
Oh, wait — we don’t do that last thing. Maybe that’s what we ought to be concentrating on. Is more government the better answer, or is more freedom the better answer? I know my choice.
and now you know why i quit the nra 25 years ago. i saw what they were really all about-$. whats gonna happen when your pissed -off x tells a lie about you, be it male or female. nra just jumped on the pile of b.s.
This is not what I joined the NRA for. They are supposed to protect the the 2nd amendment not agree with the libs
It appears they themselves are becoming a liberal organization. Keep this up and I will switch to one of the organizations that that does
Here in Washington state we have those orders in place. In this state we have open carry with no permit. One of the first victims of these orders is a man just open carrying. His libtard neighbors said they were uncomfortable with him open carrying and that he stared at people. So, the got the order and the government took his guns. The libs are going to make these orders legal all over the country. We better watch our backs folks.
The NRA has a history of doing these sorts of things. Perhaps Mr. Cox’s visit with Trump convinced him that EPOs and elimination of due process are things that we all can live with. Remember the Prez said to grab the guns first, then take them to court. Truth of the matter is Trump and the NRA are only worried about their self preservation, 2nd amendment be damned.
The Compromising NRA is now supporting three forms of Gun Control!
Let them hear from you.
I don\’t believe that an ERPO will necessarily trample on Constitutional Rights, although they need to be properly crafted and properly administered. Constitutional Rights may become forfeit in circumstances where there is need to balance other rights, and of course, people are arrested and kept in jail all the time without trampling on their rights, even in the cases where such people are eventually found not guilty. We\’ve got to do something about crazy people. We\’ve got to open up those records in some cases, and we\’ve got to restrict them in some cases. There are too many lunatics considered to be \”managed\” with meds that they must voluntarily take to stay \”managed\”. My thought is that if you need meds to function, you cannot be allowed to function without supervision, and that may lead to restriction of some rights. Heck, I don\’t want those people driving either. So, it seems to me that an ERPO that provides prompt review and the ability of individual to provide defense, then they may be ok (depends on what else is or isn\’t in them). A key consideration is that they not delay justice and therefore, deny justice. It would be nice if there is assurance that guns will be returned in good condition for those cases where they are confiscated and the person is found to be ok to have them shortly thereafter. Elliot Rodger should have been stopped before he knifed his three roommates, before he shot three more people, and before he ran over all those people with the BMW his Daddy probably bought him. Good mental health rules could have prevented the problems all around.
Yeah; Carefully crafted as not to infringe.
Oh Yeah the Feds have no jurisdiction over guns now do they.
I don’t believe that an ERPO will necessarily trample on Constitutional Rights, although they need to be properly crafted and properly administered. Constitutional Rights may become forfeit in circumstances where there is need to balance other rights, and of course, people are arrested and kept in jail all the time without trampling on their rights, even in the cases where such people are eventually found not guilty. We’ve got to do something about crazy people. We’ve got to open up those records in some cases, and we’ve got to restrict them in some cases. There are too many lunatics considered to be “managed” with meds that they must voluntarily take to stay “managed”. My thought is that if you need meds to function, you cannot be allowed to function without supervision, and that may lead to restriction of some rights. Heck, I don’t want those people driving either. So, it seems to me that an ERPO that provides prompt review and the ability of individual to provide defense, then they may be ok (depends on what else is or isn’t in them). A key consideration is that they not delay justice and therefore, deny justice. It would be nice if there is assurance that guns will be returned in good condition for those cases where they are confiscated and the person is found to be ok to have them shortly thereafter. Elliot Rodger should have been stopped before he knifed his three roommates, before he shot three more people, and before he ran over all those people with the BMW his Daddy probably bought him. Good mental health rules could have prevented the problems all around.
“I don’t believe that an ERPO will necessarily trample on Constitutional Rights, although they need to be properly crafted and properly administered.”
Communism works, too, “if the right people had been put in charge.”
“I don’t believe that an ERPO will necessarily trample on Constitutional Rights,”
You are living in this fantasy were Due Process is not important. These ERPO’s
are ALREADY trampling Constitutional Rights….they are the tools of a tyrant
and have no place in a free society…..
How does someone prove they are not dangerous that is not reasonable, There should be a burden of proof that someone is dangerous, required before any action can be taken against them. Since when has our justice system said that the burden of proof rests on the accused to prove them selves innocent, which is what these laws will do. There is no due process in these cases!
ATF….. Alcohol kills more children then guns…. Tobacco kills more children then guns… Firearms kills less children then the laws on the books protecting chemical companies and pesticide companies that make profits while killing children….
Somebody has really got their wires crossed….
THAN, not then. For f**k’s sake.
Do you always nit pick this way. So the poster hit the wrong key. I am smart enough to know what he meant. Who did you get to explain the mistake to you, another liberal? Naw, they would not be able to figure it out either.
Obviously Dewey is mentally ill to be so compulsively obsessed with grammar to act ‘strangely’ by typing that statement so we should get a protection order and have the police state deputies come over and take away his guns AND is computer.
As if the leftists are not doing enough to destroy the US, the RINO “conservatives” and leftist appeasing NRA seem to be doing everything in their power to destroy the US also. I just wish Texas would secede. Afterward, we’ll send a few Texas Rangers down to Mexico and fix their problem with the drug cartels and corruption and most importantly, we’ll teach them how to do Mexican food RIGHT.
Liberal operatives are expert at infiltrating or creating oposition groups.
The longer a group has been around the more likely it’s been co-opted.
When a new group appears suddenly and powerfully it is an inteligence agency creation.
All the talk about new gun laws and better background checks are just a lot of pandering to the ignorant and unknowing. Three different groups dropped the ball in Orlando: the school, the police and the FBI. His behavior after getting the weapon and before the shooting was evidence that he had real problems. More gun laws are not going to cure stupidity on the part of the three groups listed above.
That school shooting was just another hoax.
I agree with you Christopher!
I am a army infantry veteran. This ban on bumpstocks and banning ar weapons isnt going to stop mass shooting. Any halfassed shooter can accomplish the same goal with a .22 long rifle if they want distance and a hand gun if they are trying to conceal there intent. There are several other methods to getting the same effect as as a bumpstock. What people i feel arnt understandinf especially if the report is true about these poor kids in florida saying the ar style weapon killed there classmates is that yes an ar style weapon was used but if there wasnt a person with a questionable history behind it then a gun is relatively harmless. Yes i said relatively but accidental discharges do happen but my point is that people shouldnt be waging a war ar style weapons. Any gun restriction laws that are made for the MOST part only effect law abbiding citizens. Criminals dont follow the law thats why they are criminals. They will find a way to do what they want. I honestely do feel bad for what happened to the kids and adults in the mass shooting crimes but we need to start talki g to our kids that guns are not toys. No person but the owner should have access to those guns. The sandy hook shootings could have been mitigated if that had happened. And as for florida, the family should have locked the guns up unless he was supervised. Yes he was old enough to purchase it but he cpuld get his own place. There house there rules. If they would have made it so he didnt have access to the weapons then that could have been mitigated as well. But this is all just my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt.
So you’re telling us that the amount of damage done by a 22LR or a handgun are equally devastating as a high velocity 5.56.
Since there is no tactical advantage with a bump stock; yeah the .22 would’ve been more advantageous than the AR-15 if the Las Vegas shooting were not a hoax.
These orders are gaining traction across the country whether the NRA supports them or not. Who would you rather write these laws – Mom’s demand action, or the NRA? It’s better for the NRA to be involved in this than just having the gun grabbers do it alone.
It’s not as if this isn’t a known problem for us. 2 of my friends in the SF community volunteer on suicide watch groups to help fellow veterans and offer to keep their guns for them, instead of losing them to the court. That’s the perfect way to handle this, between brothers and friends, but you can barely scale that solution across a county let alone a state. The point is that we know sometimes some people shouldn’t be around their guns. The 2A supporters should get ahead of the gun grabbers on this movement and get laws drafted that we can support – that allow for guns to be automatically returned, for the threshold of intervention to follow due process and set a high bar for it.
In the pro-2A community, we’ve said for a long time that most of these mass shooting events have a lot to do with mental health problems. Well, we need to move on that, or Bloomberg and the others will do it for us, and that’s really going to suck.
Oh sure, use logic and reason to make your point. I had an non- domestic RO issued against me 20 years ago, the person that sought the order was himself a prohibited person having undergone a court ordered psychiatric evaluation in another court case unrelated to me, the court was not aware of this at the time, he had over 100 court cases in a 4 year period and not a lawyer. Anyone researching me will find that I had a RO in the past and might be dangerous, right? Lying to obtain RO goes unpunished as perjury is hard to prove and these court cases are like being invited to a domestic dispute, no thanks. Your point is well made however, if we have to have it I’d rather the NRA-ILA is involved.
” 2 of my friends in the SF community volunteer on suicide watch groups to help fellow veterans and offer to keep their guns for them, instead of losing them to the court.” In California that’s against the law unless the transfer is through a dealer.
California, in the Peoples Republic the Constitution itself is illigal to. I will pass a firearm to
whoever I choose….you can lick the states boots if you want….I won’t…
I’ve joined the NRA many times in the past 50+ years but I always drop out over the tons of crap I get in the mail almost every day touting some “Big New” emergency that required my sending an additional $25.. $50..$100 to help this new problem go away. And I mean it was almost daily.
So I recently joined GOA and signed up to donate $20.00 monthly. Within a few days my mail and E mail were full of the same crap the NRA pulled. If I’m sending $20.00 a month for gods sake stop hammering me for more on a daily basis! I once asked in regards to the NRA “Just how much does it take to keep a bought and paid for Senator on our side”?
IMHO the whole gun debate had become a cash cow for the NRA and GOA. I remember when GOA wasn’t like this and I was very surprised that all the constant hounding for more and more started. I canceled my monthly donation.
Also IMHO If the Dim-O Craps ever get their way and really try to disarm us it will lead to a fight that will make Gettysburg look like a cookie sale at the local church. I will only bend so far and for sure I won’t bend over and hope they at least use some lubricant. Better a dead lion than a live Jackal.
“Also IMHO If the Dim-O Craps ever get their way and really try to disarm us it will lead to a fight that will make Gettysburg look like a cookie sale at the local church.”
Really? You don’t think they are trying to disarm us now? Not sure where you live or how much attention you pay to current events, but attitudes like yours will ultimately lead to our defeat! In reply to your dilemma about donations, if you don’t want to donate, throw the solicitation in the trash and don’t worry about it. It really is that easy. Every time GOA or NRA send out a mailing, they know everyone or ones who recently gave are not going to contribute, but, the thing is, every time they send out a request for donation, somebody does give! It takes a lot of money to do what they do! I’m not trying to belittle you, just hopefully showing a different perspective.
This to me is a very suspicious post since both my girl and I are G0A and VERY rarely receive an e-mail or letter
As to these “protection orders” they are totally unconstitutional on their face and place the burden completely on an innocent individual to attempt at great cost to restore his liberty and get his property returned. Basically guilty until proven innocent, one of the reasons we fought the British Empire. This is tyranny and the NRA can go to hades
Does anyone remember the 2012 GOP primaries when Guns America proudly came out in favor of Ron Paul while lambasting Mitt Romney as the Second Amendment-shirking traitor to freedom he is? To the blog’s credit they acknowledged the crow in their teeth when Romney won the nomination and they were backed into supporting him. However, I find it shocking that anyone could be shocked that a GOP politician like Trump would sell out the Second Amendment, especially since Trump had already stated he favored more infringements! GA had good reason to support Paul in 2012. He was the only consistently pro-freedom Republican in the race, and Paul’s actions spoke for themselves. He didn’t need the campaign platitudes the largest segments of GOP voters evidently swallowed.
Guns America hit the nail on the head when they wrote “[Romney] is still a sniveling politician who sticks his finger in the air to see which way the wind is blowing, then announces that the wind was his idea.” For all his puffed posturing and unhinged tweeting, I can’t help but feel this description fits the current Commander in Chief.
BINGO! Trump is a New York liberal wearing a conservative condom. He’s also a huge narcissist who wants to be adored
This Benefactor Life Member is getting out. The modern NRA is weak and worthless!
The NRA is not the group everyone thinks it is . NRA Not Really American
It looks like the NRA has rolled over to have its tummy rubbed again.
All Federal anti-gun laws began with the National Firearms Act of 1934. The NFA34 was enacted solely on the basis of political control, not the ostensible ‘public safety’ all such laws are promoted as supporting.
The NFA34 came about as a reaction to Both the ‘Bonus Army’ incident of 1932 and the ‘Business Plot of 1933’, in which a group of businessmen purportedly planned a coup against FDR. (It would take too long to explain; just look them up) .
At that time, military grade weapons such as submachine guns like the Thompson was available to the public, and were used by criminals in perpetrating crimes. The ostensible goal of the NFA34 was to prevent automatic weapon-assisted crimes; the real goal was to make revolt against a potentially tyrannical central government difficult. Arguably, it is the latter rationale which has been the true impetus for anti-gun laws since NFA34. The attempt by bureaucratic fiat to rule bump-fire stocks illegal is just another example of that dynamic in operation.
NOTE: The NRA was complicit in the 1934 Act and helped write it. Then then did the same in 1968 and the 1986 Hughes Act
Agreed… The NRA has not always been a friend of the 2nd Amendment. They had gotten better for awhile, but the stuff I see them doing lately makes me wonder if they are going about their old ways of appeasement. Is “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED” so difficult to understand? It’s not like the Founding Fathers put a list of exceptions attached to it or something. As far as I’m concerned, it’s pretty simple — if the federal government has arms that they might use against the civilian population, then the civilian population should be able to own these same types of arms.
Correct….the NRA has no problem with legislation and they are a lobby group that only exists because
of the anti-Constitutional laws that keep coming…. They NEED gun prohibition and gun restrictions
to keep the donations flowing in and keep up the mailing lists for their junk mail….
Not a complete picture here…. I offer the Maine ERPO (and similar ERPOs) may not include the ‘language’ NRA supports to ensure DUE PROCESS. Any ERPO supported by NRA will require exam by MD & Judge (&_?__?_), by coercion if necessary, prior to SURRENDER of arms. So what would that look like? Arrest & exam by a medical (Psychiatrist, Psychologist, Neurologist) as well as review of results by a Judge. If subject cooperates/agrees to exam, skip the arrest. Should require ‘temporary custody’ of subject firearms until hearings are complete. This may upset some, but, it WOULD make all persons think 2X before making threats. If person has anger issues & NEVER thinks before speaking/acting… well, surrender sounds like a GREAT idea to me.
So much for the 5th Amendment, eh?
While I can’t disagree with most of these anti NRA comments, their context disturbs be greatly. Guys, and gals, we’re in the fight of our life here and the time to cut and run ain’t now! Those of you who don’t live in Illinois need to look at some of the bills that have already passed here and are waiting for the governor’s signature. Very scary! They were ramrodded through with a democratically controlled house and senate!!!!
None of us are perfect, even the NRA. I’m sure they are on damage control. GOA and 2nd Amendment are great organizations too. We need to support them. But how many of them sit at a table with the POTUS? But if we don’t stay UNITED, I guarantee, we’ll lose. Like it or not, the NRA is the big boy in the room and we have to place at least some trust, that they will do the right thing. Personally, I could give a rats **s about a bump stock or a black rifle for that matter, but I will fight to all ends to protect those of my brothers in the shooting fraternity that do care about those items, because we’re all in this together! And I’m smart enough to know that bump stocks and black rifles are not what the anti gun bums really want. One comment said they were going to vote democrat because when the demorats are in charge, the repubs fight harder. Really? If the democrats were in control right now, you’d have already lost!! See sentence above what happened in IL. It’s ok to disagree among ourselves, but I double dog guarantee you, if we let the antis divide us, we’ll LOSE! And unfortunately, they know that and are playing some of us like fiddles!
BULLPUCKY. We lost virtually NO liberty during 8 years of Obongo, yet Chump and NRA are handing our freedoms out to the wolves like doggie treats. Don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s raining!
Chris Cox and the NRA leadership have more brains and character than any twenty of you scholars who have posted on here. What don’t you understand about “risk protective orders should include due process safeguards.” That means you couldn’t have any weapon confiscated without presenting a judge clear and convincing evidence that the subject was a threat to someone.
Are you honestly saying that you want to allow guys like the school shooter in Florida to keep their guns because you don’t trust a judge to make that determination. Seriously?
Here here! Do you all think the NRA would support random gun confiscation? Probably more gun owners who are too cheap to pay the membership fee and somehow want to justify that by claiming NRA is the enemy.
Judges are not immune to political forces; to attribute them as having immunity from those forces is to engage in dangerously naive thinking.
When FDR threatened the Supreme Court in 1937 to increase their numbers and fill the positions with his hand-picked men, they stopped their strict Constitutionalist opposition to his dictatorial power-grab, and ‘rolled over and played dead’, leading to the ever-more-liberal encroachments upon rights that we have ‘enjoyed’ ever since.
Judges regularly rubber-stamp the most specious of warrants that have led in many cases to unlawful (yet unpunished) extra-judicial deaths of citizens at the hands of police, civil forfeiture confiscation of property without conviction for crimes, and the recent revelations of well over 90% of FISA warrants for wiretapping and surveillance of citizens which later proved to be based on partisan politics rather than actual threats to national security.
Trust such people with that kind of power when there are clear indications of that power being abused for the sake of political expediency? Such touching naïveté belongs in children, not the voting public.
NEMO is right that not every judge is above being swayed by political influence. But fortunately that’s the exception not the rule, and there are multiple ways to deal with corrupt judges. If you are correct in assuming that judges won’t make the fair and reasonable call on these risk orders most of the time then God help us all, because we are headed for civil anarchy and a bloodbath if your cynical view is on target.
Hear hear!!! Well said!
Seems you’ve never heard of a jury by 12 of your peers. Did you sleep through civics class?
Welcome to the slippery slope… You probably can’t see the top anymore since you are so far down it… 🙁
It’s really pretty simple and the Founding Fathers stated it very clearly — “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED”. They provided for NO exceptions. If you think that there can be exceptions to “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED”, then you also wouldn’t mind the government telling you which religion you can OR MUST worship. NFA34, GCA68, and all other restrictions on the natural born right of free men to bear arms are totally unconstitutional.
The 2nd amendment clearly states …” shall not be infringed…” , while the 14th amendment clearly restricts states from restricting federally protected constitutional rights.
Its not pick and choose.
States dont have the right to restrict, religion, or speach, or press.
If anyones comes to my house trying to seize anything from this veteran…
They go in the hole, in the back forty.
If they send a lot, I got a wood chipper.
This should not have been a surprise. NRA caved on the ‘Assault Weapons Ban of 1994’, too. And with the same kind of ‘argument’. Threw sporting arms shooters and collectors under the bus presumably to save the rest of the marksman community.
And let us not forget it was NRA Life member President George HW Bush who signed the 1988 ban into law; NRA leadership should have stripped him of that Life Membership for such a betrayal.
NRA is supposedly experiencing a rush of new members due to the recent tragedy; new members thinking it will help preserve their 2A rights, while it is becoming self-evident that it is amenable to allowing those rights to be whittled away piecemeal.
Bump stocks are an add on device that makes a semi auto rifle an automatic firearm which is illegal. BATF made a gross error approving them initially.As a combat infantryman I can say with confidence they have no practical value other than spraying a crowd at a concert. They have no place in home defense or hunting. A properly executed protection order following due process is a necessary tool to remove firearms from people that are a danger to themselves and others. Each state will do thin on their own. We must ensure that the initial order provides for impounding firearms pending a full court hearing and or medical examination.In the event a permanent removal is determined then the owner must be reimbursed as confiscation absent a crime is unconstitutional. In the case of heirlooms distribution to a family member or museum should be part of the legislation. Since this will be done state by state this process will require careful monitoring to ensure citizens rights are not abused.. I have been shooting for 70 years and still hunt and shoot in competition. The current fascination with the AR15 family of firearms in irrational, It was a weapon the Army never really wanted and is a mediocre weapon firing a mediocre cartridge. I say this having used it in combat, the only thing going for it is it is light and you can carry lots of ammunition.
And what happens when the judge and/or ME is an anti-2A lib?
Shrubs love child speaks. Domestic enemy
I apologize this is long read, but I believe it is worth your time…
I can personally testify regarding the risk to innocent people for how dangerous ERPOs can and will be to personal freedom and 2A rights. Approximately 25 years ago I was in a poor mental state due to a cheating wife. In my despair one night I went out drinking with a friend. Instead of going home I decided to spend the night at my mother’s house, a place I trusted and considered a “safe haven”. Imagine my surprise to awake in the middle of the night to police officers and a mental health official standing over me. My mom had called the police and told them I’d threatened to commit suicide and was a danger to myself. They promptly handcuffed me and took me to a facility where I spent the remainder of the night in physical restraints. My state, as it turns out, has laws that allow for commitment based on another person’s request.
The next morning I went before a judge who told me I had two choices, voluntarily commit myself in which case I could be released as soon as a mental facility recommended or have the court commit me where I’d spend at least two weeks incarcerated in a mental institution. What kind of choice is that? Of course I “voluntarily” had myself committed.
Afterward, I had to spend the weekend locked up with a bunch of certifiable crazies until I could speak to a psychiatrist to review my case the following Monday. Now I really did feel like my life was in danger. And the sad fact is I NEVER threatened to kill myself. No matter how much I pleaded this fact, the law chose to take the word of a third party against my own word. I had no due process at this time. They reacted just as “The Don” suggested. Act first and sort it out later.
When I did get the chance to speak with a doctor that Monday he commented that, while I did have issues at the time that would benefit from counseling, what my mother had done to me was akin to shooting a mouse with a bazooka. These were his words. He immediately ordered my release. Needless to say, my relationship with my mother was permanently destroyed.
Prior to this ordeal, I had no idea how easy it was to strip a law-abiding citizen of their basic rights. This was a scary wakeup call for me and a horrible experience that haunts me to this day.
For anyone who supports ERPOs I say beware. When a person’s basic rights, including 2A rights, can be taken away due to a third party accusation, and when due process is suspended until the authorities can “sort it all out” we are in real danger. It is a horrible experience to find yourself in the position of having to prove you are a sane, law-abiding citizen. I know.
I was in the same predicament as you in the late seventies in Fla. over my ex wife who turned out to be a total slut. Being young and dumb I got drunker than Cooter Brown and mixed PCP with it, very stupid move! After it took six cops to restrain me they transported me to a psych ward at a local hospital where I was informed I could sign in voluntarily and in twenty four hours I could sign myself out or they would involuntarily commit me and confine me until they deemed me safe to release. There was some seriously disturbed folks locked away in that place! One extremely sexy female patient became quite friendly with me and I thought it might be worth staying here for a little while but she turned out to be looniest person in the place! I watched the clock and when twenty four hours was up I approached the desk and told them I was ready to sign out and leave! They started with but but but you haven’t even been interviewed yet! I told them I had only overdosed but I was straight and in my right mind now but if I stay in here much longer I’ll be as crazy as all these lunatics you have here! They finally relented and let me sign out and by God’s grace I have never pulled such a stupid stunt like that again! Thankfully shortly after that I met the beautiful woman I’ve been married to for forty years and between her and our kids causing me to want to exercise some discipline I’ve been a productive citizen since.
this is bad,,,,,if the day comes and the extreme protection law becomes real, there is no end to how it could be manipulated,,,just seen packing a firearm could get you deemed a threat,this cannot pass,,,if it does , we are in big trouble,,,,
I am a life member of the NRA, but they have really been pissing me off the last few years, I would never fork over that type of money to them now.
Gun Owners of America, and NationalAssociation for Gun Rights are better groups to belong to these days!
There are ALREADY laws in EVERY state that allow arresting and disarming people who make threats. This Florida nut job freakin’ SAID he was going to be a school shooter on the internet and not a damn thing was done about it…because of his ethnicity or what? We don’t need any new laws that give bureaucrats more power and whittle away at or rights. We need the bureaucrats to start doing their jobs without regard to political correctness. They’ve already got all the laws they need.
Join gun owners of america,the only real gun rights organization
THE NRA FAILED US MEMBERS. THE BUMP STOCK FEEL GOOD BAN THE NRA SUPPORTED IS ONLY THE BEGINNING OF THE END. AFTER THE NEXT SHOOTING SEMI-AUTOS WILL BE IN THE NRA’S SCOPE.
It seems Chris has been mis-spelling his last name all these years. Or is it just that he has Hillary’s in his mouth.
Its simple! Dump Trump! Dump NRA! Boy were we duped? Trojan horse! I will vote Democrat 2018..,Republicans fight harder for 2nd Amendment when Democrats control House and Senate and they need our vote! WHAT A POLITICAL FARCE! I thought Trump was our best shot. Boy was I wrong. Liar nut basket!
You are nuts!!!!! Vote demonicrat and be assured you lose your freedoms!!! Traitor!!!
The only reason the NRA-ILA exists is to help fan fires so they can collect more “donations” which are really protection funds, in which they say “hey we’ll fight for your rights” and then they do nothing so they can make sure to ask for more donations. Clay said we should be standing with the NRA and I don’t think we can. They are as swamp filled as the rest of DC including the swamp monster Trump.
Years ago the NRA lost my respect when I wrote a letter to them explaining the reason for the jury system that the founding fathers set up. That one of the jobs of the jury in criminal cases was to judge the LAW as well as the facts and if they found that the LAW violated the defendants rights it was withing their power to issue a NOT GUILTY verdict. Well that provision of the jury was NEVER taught to any of us in the PUBLIC ie GOVERNMENT school system and so we go along with the “judge” when he lies to us and tells us we cannot judge the law. Do some research and check out the concept of “jury nullification” at the FIJA website. Well the NRA said that it wasn’t politically expedient to teach about the power of the jury via it’s publication. My ass… Now Gun Owners of America on the other hand has over the years, told us about jury nullification quite a bit. I sure wish I had NEVER joined the NRA for life. It is run by over payed opportunists.
That’s why I never renewed my membership with the NRA.They are caving in to the anti-gun commies and if they keep on that path they will soon be indistinguishable from those trying to take our rights to bear arms!
Wayne and Chris say thanks to all of their idiots, oops, I mean members. Keep sending money.
Wake up and think for yourselves.
First off, Newsflash! criminals and the mentally ill are unlikely to give a flying floont about restraining orders issued by anyone. What this means to me is that no one will be protected by a piece of paper and a few innocent people falsley/wrongly accused are going to have their lives destroyed and their property taken.The potential for misuse and abuse is real. Written in the small print at the bottom of these orders are all the penalties for lying or presenting false evidence, five years in prison, $5’000 Dollar fine, however to my knowledge, no one has ever spent 5 seconds in jail or paid 5 cents in fines for lying to obtain one of these orders.
Psychiatry is the LEAST exact science, more like speculation. From Stalinist Gulags to frontal lobotomies, it’s been abused by tyrants and governments for political purposes. We can’t just use an open-ended obscure concept of “mental illness” to empower shrinks to strip people of constitutional rights. We must have SPECIFIC, DEFINED CRITERIA of “DANGEROUS MENTAL ILLNESS” before we allow courts to “intervene” and strip guns. And there must be limits on the length of time these guns are held: “due process” in this country can take years, which is ridiculous.
We all that when dealing with gun-grabbers and those that want to shred the bill of Rights that “Give them an inch and they’ll take a mile” is undoubtedly true…
So, people need to forget about the NRA until Chris Cox and Wayne LaPierre are booted out – insiders on the board say those pair went rogue some time back. Divert all funds to the only no-compromise organization that currently exists … Gun Owners of America (GOA)!
Don’t forget SAF.
It’s time to boycott the NRA. Guns America needs to issue a statement.
No, this is great… IF done right. I opine that the idea of “Doing it right” is the basis for NRAs about-face. Look, most anti-gun laws are written & sponsored by anti-gunners, OR non-gun owning, OR own only a field shotgun and/or a handgun for self defense. I think what the NRA is saying is… lets get ahead of this thing & pass a law in the one area where we are weak… mental health/rage checks for gun ownership and/or purchase. The only way to plug the weakness is to include mental heath and/or protective order documentation in the NICS. Well, such documentation SHOULD NOT be based on an accusation & a judge’s decision. There must be due process & hard evidence. Plus, such laws will keep LOUSY gun owners from angry threats (even is empty, not real) that may/may not involve a firearm. Angry rants on-line are no good either. Leave the angry rants to the Libs & Anti-Fa vermin.
I am surprised the NRA has embraced this common sense gun violence prevention idea but not at all disappointed! As a matter of fact, this gives me hope for the soul and humanity of the NRA lobby.
How many lives have to be saved for a policy like this to be acceptable? 100,000? 100? If the guns are taken away from some madman killer like the ones in Florida, Las Vegas, Texas, Virginia Tech or Sandy Hook, how many lives of children would have to have been saved in order to justify this small measure of gun violence prevention? If it just saves 4 children’s lives and not 5, is that where the line is drawn? I can’t imagine arguing that nothing should change – righteousness and justice demand that we do something!
Ahh yes, the we must do something argument.
You and your rights first Blue Dog, put up and show your fellow patriots how it’s done.
Great until your neighbor gets pissed at you and reports you as threatening. And that’s all it could take if you have ever let them know you have a gun.
Cry me a river with this if it saves X children crap. Go bitch to have seatbelts in your kids school buses, save a few there. There are dozens of thing that take thousands of lives each year an you don’t give a damn about those. You anti gun zealots are not satisfied when the killer is dead or facing trial. That how the justice system works: it deals with the criminal not the community. You always have to go after the rights od people that had nothing to do with the crime. YOU want COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT applied to firearm owners for the violentl acts of a few criminals. Living in a free society does not mean Utopia. There are many things that kill and injure hundreds if not thousands of men, women and children every single day. Its called Life with freedoms and that come with good as well as bad, there is no “line to be drawn”. How many lives have been given throughout our history to give us ALL the Rights we have today? Should our Forefathers have said “Oh, we must not fight for Independence if it takes 4 or 5 lives.” Dont you understand that you can’t use a body count to destroy Freedoms? Don’t you come after the 2A unless you are willing to unilaterally give up all your Rights.
If you are so willing to sacrifice the rights of others do you value yours as cheaply?
I’ve heard rumors that Blue Dog is insane…time to report him and have him hauled off for a frontal lobotomy without due process.
Excellent idea Dr. Motown!
This jerk off must like abuse, head on over to a liberal site and flap your stupid gums.
Maybe someone should petition u so you’ll get your guns taken away. I mean after all your on here week after week poking at honest law abiding gun owners just to get a rise out of us, sounds like u are very confrontational and love to fight and argue so I say there’s your evidence “take yours first AND FOR THE THOUSANDTH TIME GO BEAT YOUR DOG SOME MORE AND LEAVE US ALONE”
Not that I’m advocating beating your dog there blue dog, after all us on here love dogs allot more than you
Bludgo, yes I intentionally misspelled your moniker. Evidently, you are a democrat by your given idiotic statements that are definitely speaking points by that group of Anti-American traitors. The law of the land is the Constitution, not some knee jerk response to your hero’s PROMISE program. Law enforcement failed in many huge ways to stop this crime from ever happening.
There are 20,000 gun laws on the books now. Do you think someone that is going to kill others will actually obey a lame gun law? You are towing the party line just like a jackass. There are some criminals that choose guns to do their worst to the law abiding citizens. Do you want to take cars away from all the drivers because of idiots that want to drive drunk and kill. innocents. I
You guys. You know your not supposed to feed the trolls. It just encourages them to come back. When you don’t respond, they give up and go away.
Blue Dog – Simple question for you. Are you in favor of changing the driving age to 21? How about making the voting age 21? How about having to be 21 to serve in the military?
If you answer no to any of those, you need to understand that you are in support of killing teenagers. Plain and simple! Any of those above acts kill more teenagers in a year than gun do in five.
Where does Soros find all you trolls?
Heres an idiot that I hope tries cleaning a loaded gun.