  Because of the mercury lights at the Show it was hard to get a good picture of this gun on the floor so we are using the manufacturer picture. Click for a larger version. It reallly is a 12 gauge shotgun.
 It is hard to believe until you hold the gun, but at $699, this is an absolute must have for a gun nut.
 This is the camo version for $100 more. I expect they will also do digital camo down the road.
Check out this video from Firebird. The MKA-1919 has a bright future in 3-Gun.
 The RAAC shotgun was the talk of the show downstairs especially. Who knows where this thing is going to go. We could be seeing the birth of the most common shotgun sold in the next decade.
 These are just some of the guns that were on display by Firebird Precision. Every race gun manufacturer in the country is figuring out these guns right now and how to create modifications and custom parts. The Firebird designs are based around a stock AR-15 trigger group, and the rest of the parts are made to go with that. They are backed up right now so if you want one, get your order in quick.
 This is the Recon Cigar girl who gave away over 1500 cigars to GunsAmerica dealers over the course of SHOT Show from our booth. She is a shooter and hunter and liked the gun a lot.
 If you click and look at this picture bigger you will see that out of the box, the MKA-1919 has a one piece polymer receiver, stock and handgaurd combination. It can be and is modified to take AR-15 furniture and internal parts, but it works great like it is out of the box.
 Internal screw in chokes make this gun realistic for most shotgun shooting sports, and it has a chrome lined barrel so you can shoot steel in it.
 The gun ships with two 5 round magazines that are the same color as your gun. High cap mags are being retrofitted and tested right now and should be available within a couple months. You cannot import shotgun mags over 5 rounds under current law.
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RAAC MKA-1919 Semi-Auto Shotgun
https://www.raacfirearms.com/
If there is a must have product at SHOT 2012, it is the Akdal MKA 1919 semi-auto shotgun, exclusively imported in the US by RAAC. It looks like an AR-15, but it is a super-sized version made for 12 gauge shotgun shells in both the 2 3/4″ and 3″ size.
The concept of a semi-automatic shotgun with a detachable box magazine isn’t a new one. Russian imports have been around for many years in the AK configuration, in limited supply from off and on importers. They aren’t known for being reliable out of the box, and a lot of people buy them in hopes of getting a reliable, big firepower, shotgun, only to be disappointed with a gun that doesn’t work so good. For a box magazine fed shotgun, the Russian guns have been a big disappointment.
Last year at SHOT Show a new company called RAAC introduced a new design in magazine fed semi-auto shotgun, but they haven’t been available to the public until recently. It is an AR-15-ish design, but out of the box, AR-15 hardware doesn’t fit the gun. It does however look like an AR, and it comes with an M-16 like carry handle and front sight. The gun is called the MKA-1919, and… second drum roll of the week… the MSRP is $699 in the black, and $799 in the camo you see here, and they are available now.
The guns are made in Turkey, and from what I have seen in talking to the owners, the Turkish approach is very different than the way the Russians do business. These guns work great right out of the box, and the Turks have agreed to send a good supply of parts for the guns, unlike the Russians who won’t. This means the gun is probably here to stay, in personal defense, competition and the hunting market. Word on the street is that it is the gun to beat in all three categories in a semi-auto shotgun.
Already it is difficult for the dealers to keep the MKA-1919 on the shelves, so if your dealer doesn’t have any yet, just tell them that they can get them from one of several distributors for you, including RSR, Ellett Brothers, Horton, Acusport and Bill Hicks. Even though RAAC has a good regular supply from Turkey, I predict that they will quickly not be able to keep up with demand once the word is out.
We somehow missed this gun at Media Day at the Range this year, but from what I have heard, the RAAC shotgun was a big hit. I was curious about how often you have to clean it to keep it running reliably, and they fired 1800 rounds in a row on Media Day with no failures until the magazine finally failed because of all the sand blowing around in the desert. Even under those harsh conditions (take a look at all the range day pics there is sand all over everything), the internals of the gun never failed. For good measure you should plan to clean the gun every 500-600 rounds if you use it for competition according to the manufacturer though. Every gun needs an occasional cleaning.
When you first get your gun, I was told by Clyde Woods, who was handling marketing at the SHOT Show for RAAC, that you should shoot a couple boxes of at least 3 1/4 Dram equivalent 12 gauge at first. This will sufficiently break the gun in, then you can shoot much lighter loads for practice and competition. A Dram is actually a black powder measurement of a 1/16th of an ounce, and shotshells are still measured in the equivalent power factor of the old black powder loads. The RAAC shotgun has a self regulating gas system, so you don’t have to mess with it once it is broken in now matter what shells you want to shoot. We hope to get a test gun in soon and we will put the MKA-1919 through its paces with light loads and see how she runs.
Notice in the pictures that the stock and receiver are one polymer piece on an unmodified MKA 1919. It may look like an AR-15, but there are no interchangeable parts. You will also see pictures of modified guns from the RAAC booth, because they have invited a customizing company, called Firebird Precision, to display several guns that had been adapted to an AR-15 trigger group and stock hardware. Already a number of 3-Gun competitors have begun shooting the RAAC, and one of the more popular shooters in the sport, Pat Kelly, said he couldn’t outrun the trigger on it. The gun runs just that fast. For under $2,000, James Lambert at Firebird can make you an AR-15 hardware compatible shotgun that will last you a lifetime, and as you can see, they look pretty cool too. He is backordered, as are the other gunsmiths that are customizing the MKA 1919, so get in line.
There is a two round magazine available for the MKA-1919 for hunting, and it ships with two five round mags, one for 2 3/4 inch shells and one for 3 inch shells. The gun shoot both equally well. High capacity mags should be available by March where they are legal. That thumbwheel you see on the front of the handguard is how it field strips and though we didn’t get a chance to take it apart at the show, we were told it is simple. The side charging handle is removable, so aftermarket handles will be made for the gun by competition parts companies. There is a last round hold-open on an empty mag, and that handle and front sight do come off the top to reveal a standard mil-spec rail for optics.
Sometimes you see a gun at SHOT Show and you know that it will be gone in a few years, and that it is destined to only be a piece of firearms history. The RAAC MKA-1919 I predict will not be one of these. Both the exclusive importer, RAAC, and the Turkish manufacturer seem to have a plan for the future that is sound, and with a commitment to affordable pricing, there is no way that this gun won’t be a huge success. If you want one, I would jump quick and get in line for orders with the distributors through your local dealer. This is the absolute must have gun that is actually available today to buy that we have seen in SHOT 2012 and we can’t wait to shoot one soon.
MKA 1919 great AR12. Leader Arms just as good and much easier to modify for the AR15 tube and collapsible stock.
What is the best MKA 1919 to get?
I bought one and the gun is awesome. the closest thing you’ll get to an AA-12 but why cant they make a drum clip for it for more shells. 25 or 30 is a lot better than 5.
If any one is interested in stacking 2 10 round 12 gauge mags side by side you can get two mag clips for $35.00. Just send an e-mail to [email protected]. Pay pal is excepted. This is a small machine shop that makes the clips for a lot cheaper than some other sellers and they are black Cerakoted. It’s on e-bay seller is maddtazzmike. Check it out!!
Having trouble getting a mailing lable t o send back our MKA 1919 shotgun..THE BUTTOCKS CRACKED AFTER “ONE”
TIME USING IT!!! Please help the phone number 877-752-2894 said its out of service??
Is the RAAC website down? I’m trying to find a site to purchase a MKA 1919 directly. If I can find it for $700 or so.
I had purchased the mka 1919 last year at first i wasn’t to impressed with all the plastic it had .i had taken it out shooting and it would jam but after 200 rounds of breaking in it shoots fine .I now see they have a 10 round magizine for it for 90.00 .
Scratch UTG
I shot a couple boxes out of my 10UTG.round magazine. And it worked flawlessly.Love it!
Is the 1919 legal in pa to shoot as a shot gun then?? I just read through the pa book and says just limited to 2 rounds in mag? I assume you would be able to buy a 2 round mag. Thought this would be good for pheasant and such
Does anyone have a line on high cap. Mags for the 1919?
Please send me an email before somebody bans them.
Thanks,
A Patriot in Alabama
Check firebird precision.
Hey Recon Cigar girl question is are those real ???
no
OK…so you are now ready for the Zombie Apocalypse..LOL..I’ll take a dozen.. if the girl holding it comes with.. other than that It would be a beautiful _ANTI DATE MY DAUGHTER DETERRENT_ Thank you for letting me share..lol
What is the weight of the gun.Not a hunting gun ,because you can’t have but three rounds in it.
I am sure they will develop a plug or make a mag at some point.
OK somebody HELP because if everything I read about this thing I bought on in hopes of making some sales with my AR customers took a few of them out to shoot along with some ARs. This shotgun was poor poor poor would not eject the rounds from the chamber my gunsmith instructor was not even impressed by it. We fired Federal 12-
1- 7 1/2 2 3/4 with 3 1/4 dram EQ at 1200fps and it would not eject the rounds each one jammed on the way out so WHAT’s the problem somebody help
We just picked up a test done today so we will let you know.
Not having shot one, admittedly, I still think this thing has it all over the Saiga for handling and ergonomics. It’s lighter and handier, and points well. Two or three whole generations of veterans will be instantly comfortable with handling it, and yes, I think it’s purtier than a Saiga. To the guy who said it won’t work in the sand, well, how many people on this forum will ever actually use one on somebody?
I love my 1919. Had some issues with lightly dented primers in the beginning. Replaced the firing pin spring with a lighter one and viola! 100 yds with rifled slugs and a red dot sight i can keep a 3″ group. I can out run the trigger, it shoots as fast as you can. This weapon is pretty much a Remington 1100 in an AR style body. field stripping is simple enough but a little complicated for first timers. I only run 00 buck shot or rifled slugs most reliable shotty I’ve had in semi-auto. Just need hi-cap mags for it. As far as 922R, there is 16 parts, 8 of with can be changed out, Muzzle device (choke), Gas piston, Trigger, Hammer, Disconnector, Buttstock, Pistol grip and Handguard.These can be purchased from Tromix or Firebird Precision. So that leaves 5 no compliant parts. and keeps it under 10.
Mike, would you explain the 922R in a bit more detail, please? I didn’t quite understand the 16 parts, 8 parts, and then 5 no compliant parts keeping it under 10. I assume you mean that there are 16 922R compliant pieces in the 1919 and that 8 of them can be replaced with US made parts. And that there has to be 10 or less foreign made 922R compliant parts. Not sure where the 5 fits in.
Not trying to be a smart ass. I’m just trying to find out if I can make mine 922R compliant without replacing the stock and pistol grip. All I want to do is have a hi cap magazine.
I took my 1919 out for the first time this morning. Put a mixture of 00 buck, high brass game loads, light target/game loads and light target loads thru it. One failure to extract with a light target load and one shell hung up on ejection. Total of about 60 rounds.
Both mags worked fine with both 2 3/4″ and 3″ shells.
I’ll follow the manual suggestion and run another couple of boxes of game loads to help break it in. Then I’ll figure out a good target load for it.
I removed the front sight and handle and put a C-More sight on it. Very fast and easy to acquire targets.
So far, I love it !!
Bought one of these 1919’s and had problems with it cycling. Sent it back and after only a 2 week turn around and an extra mag. thrown in for my trouble the gun was back to me and it works great. Took the carry handle off and the front sight post and added an Eotech red dot sight. Can’t wait to do the other mods like a collapsible folding stock.
The MKA 1919 blows the saiga away stock for stock, and when modified it still blows the modified saigs’s away.
i have purchased one of the bad boys here in california. unfortunately per california law, which is vehemently in favor of criminals as they do not ask permission, apply for permits, ccw’s, etc. the california version has a “bullet button” installed already so that the mag is fixed and you need a tool to remove it and insert a second mag. What i am really waiting for is for a 10 round drum like the promag ones available for the saiga which i own also and i have left it in the hands of the most respected gunsmith/armorer/rangemaster/SWAT/SF/etc. etc. now retired but runs the show at esgw in orange, ca. I will take his word over any other’s and he feels the SAIGA is not only unreliable but dangerous to operate. i feel the same way. i hate it. it stove pipes, it cant properly eject spent shells even using very high base ranger hollow point slugs. Literally i am done with it in favor of the ADKAL 1919.
I will have this gun and can not wait, a biger mag would be awesome
P.S. for those asking about if the 1919 uses the standard AR15 direct impingment gas system while I cant say for sure what it does use by looking at the pictures above Im pretty sure its NOT a direct impingment gas system.
It apears to have the gas system under the barrel and appears to be very similar to my Mossberg 5500 Autoloader , if so it should be a good solid and robust gas system although its not adjustable, in the article above though it states that it self adjust to whatever ammo your using wich is how the Mossberg5500 works and should be a right reliable system.
I will definetely be watching my local gun stores for one of these so I can at least look it over in person.
For now though I’ll just keep on shooting my good ol reliable never failing Mossbergs and Remingtons that shoot everything from the Aquila mini shells to full power 3″ Slugs and spending my money on more shells for these rather than just buying another shotgun just because it looks cool
Keep Shooting and Shoot SAFE
RemMax
Well Im not really partial to either the Saiga or the 1919 YET but have been saying for years now that if they would make the Saiga with a Rifled barrel I would buy one. Same thing applies here, Im not going to dump a stupid sum of money into a shotgun I cant get a rifled barrel for. Here in Indiana we have to deer hunt with a shotgun so I have several, I currently own a pair of Mossberg 500A’s with fully rifled cantilever barrels and optional ribbed feild barrels for, a pair of Remington 870’s one with a rifled cantilever barrel and the other with a 18.25″ feild barrel for in the event I choose to use it for home defense although for that I have a Mossberg 590 8 shot that funtions flawlessly everytime regardless of weather, climate or type of ammo these 5 shotguns always funtion without hesitation or failure, I also have a Mossberg autoloader that has never failed me and of course a Over/Under that was made by EAA before they sold out to Remington
My point is that all of these shotguns cost me less than $300 to $350 each as memory serves, I’ve had some of them for several years now, and while I liked the looks of the Saiga when they first came out the lack of a rifled barrel has kept me from spending the extra cash to buy one yet. the same will hold true for me with this 1919, if they come out with a option for a rifled barrel I will be a lot more likely to buy one even though I will likely still use my first Mossberg 500A with its cantilever barrel to hunt with
As for Saigas being unreliable ,,,,, Well while I don’t personaly own one of them I have several freinds who do,some bone stock and others with pistol grips etc ancluding one in .410 guage. I have yet to see any of these be lemons that were unreliable.
On the other hand I always like to see new guns and designs enter our American market, I like to have choices so that if I see one ond fall in love at first sight I can buy one. With that in mind Im glad to see this new shotty on the market and look forward to seeing one in person as well as possibly shooting one, Hopefully they will live up to expectations and stay around for a long time like the Saiga has. As a collector I like having lots of choices avalible to choose from.
RemMax
Are those real ???
Will the slidefire stock work with this?
Not yet, but with modification I’m sure it’ll happen.
How does this AR-15 model handle slugs? Is the barrell rifled?
Nope, you need to use rifled slugs.
Like this shotgun were can I buy one and how much are they going for?
Picked up my 1919 this afternoon from my FFL.
It has been raining all afternoon, so I have not shot it yet. First impressions are all favorable. I took it apart this evening to see how that works, will do it again tomorrow to give it a good cleaning. It is not as easy as field stripping an AR-15, but it’s not really hard either…. just different.
My FFL is a friend of 25 years and very knowledgeable on a lot of makes and models of guns, but he had not heard of the 1919 yet. When he ordered mine, he ordered an extra one for inventory. He took mine out of the box last night and gave it a good inspection, he told me this afternoon that he is going to order a half dozen more right away because he can see the 1919 as being a hot item and fast seller. He was impressed with it.
Can’t wait for the rain to go away so I can get to shooting this 1919!!
The major difference between the AK platform and the AR platform is this.
Which was mentioned above. THE SAND.
AR are not battle guns.
Case in point. Iraq war Jessica Lynch story. Over half of the US made guns never fired they jammed after 6 days in the desert. Yet the Iraqis guns had been in the desert for lets say 20 years and where probably not well maintained. Yet they did not jam. I guarantee you every one of those AKs fired every time they pulled the trigger.
US made guns are like Ferraries they need constant maintenance. The AKs are like tanks.
The Saga 12 is a tank. Yes it needs parts to shot light loads. It was made for war not duck hunting!
Yet its a great duck hunting gun with just a few tweks. Who here isnt going to twek that new AR when they get it? Everyone is going to add some thing to it. So how is that any different then the Saga?
This new AR is nice but I wouldn’t get sand in it or mud or water or anything else you will find on any battle field.
ok people,
let’s be real here. GUNS AMERICA has 91 SAIGA shotguns listed compared to 3 listings for the RAAC Akdal MKA-1919. Given the later is new, but for the administrator to open these comments with a clearly negative slant against Saiga is clearly hypocritical. I guess you must ‘follow the money’. If SAIGA’s are such ‘trash’, GUNS AMERICA surely doesn’t mind making the bank on the backs of Ishmash-Saiga. Before anyone thinks I’m bias; yes I own 15 AK’s, (2X are SAIGA’S – 12 GA, 7.62X51 NATO), but also have a BUSHMASTER & DPMS w/ 4 uppers (5.56 NATO, 5.45X39,7.62X25 &12.7X99 [.50 BMG]).
It is hard to buy RUSSIAN parts for any AK when the BATFE insists that you use only USA made parts… that drives up the cost of the weapon if you want it the way it was designed to be. Not Ishmash’s fault fot our 922R requirements. I’m sure parts would be available from Saiga if the import laws weren’t so covaluted. Chinese copies of the Ithaca Model M37 use ‘dual’ push bars (just like the BROWNING BPS), uses 2-3/4″ & 3″, and has a double cam to lock the barrel to the breech. Better than Ithaca’s threads or interupted teeth. Point is: those CHICOM copies are imported anymore due to import restrictions not faulty or bad designs.
Direct Gas Impengement is a poor application of a bad idea. I hope the RAAC Akdal MKA-1919 uses something other than that for an operating system. Pistons work. Roller-Locks work. Tilting/Rotating bolts work…
We don’t sell anything. People sell to each other here.
@ Administrator: what is the answer to the Direct Gas Impengement question? Could make a difference in the buy/no buy decision. Thanks!
This is a standard gas shotgun like an 1187.
Thanks!
The AR-15 shotgun looks cool, and fun to shoot but, 5 rd box mag ? $700.00 ? well call me old school but,give me a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 pump-action shotgun any day! the come in 2 3/4 3 inch-3 1/2 magnum they shoot any brand,any load,slug,buckshot,you put in the tube,shoot in any weather, extreme heat/cold ! besides,you can buy a mossberg or remington 12 gauge almost anywhere,$150.00-$200.00 (2-3 pump guns for the price of 1 AR- 15 shotgun. Almost forgot,how about the Remington 1100 belt-fed ( 25rd belt) FULL-AUTO SHOTGUN! I had a chance to fire one of these shotguns ! TOTALLY AWESOME FIREPOWER!!! You do not want to be on the business-end of this WEAPON!! Emptied a full belt in seconds ! WOW!!
The AR-15 shotgun looks cool, and fun to shoot, but (5 rd box mag)? $700.00 ? call me old school,but give me a MOSSBERG 500 or REMINGTON 870 pump-action 12gauge shotgun any day! they come in hi-cap,2 3/4-3inch-3 1/2inch magnum, they shoot any load you put in the tube, shoot in any weather,extreme hot,or cold !!! besides,you can pickup a mossberg or remington for about $ 150.00-$ 250.00 almost anywhere.(2-3 pump guns for the price of one AR-15 shotgun!). Almost forgot,how about the REMINGTON 1100 belt-fed (25rd belt) FULL-AUTO SHOTGUN!! I had a chance to fire one of these shotguns,FUCKING AWESOME FIREPOWER!! You do not want to be on the business end of this WEAPON!!Trust me! emptied a full belt in seconds!! WOW!!
Can you imagine plugging a magazine to 2 rounds to be legal for doves…and the expression on the face of a game warden? Of course it might be a good carry weapon for a warden.
How do I order the AR15 12 guage. Can I order thru the mail or do I have to go thru a shop.
Ask your dealer to call one of the distributors listed in the article.
Only five rounds!? I have a Gilbert Arms (Tennessee) USAS-12 which holds ten round mags and twenty round drums, and it is NOT a Russian wannabe. 5 rounds?… that’s funny. The gun DOES LOOK great though. Good luck with it!
My first Saiga was a vodka special and the American importer was nice as hell over the phone and immediately told me to send it back for exchange, which I did. The second one worked perfectly has always been a real hoot to shoot. My Saiga sure as hell isn’t crap. It is a true AK-47, made in the same factory as the originals. Many parts even interchange with standard AK’s. The AK design is probably one of the best in gunning history, right up there with the 1911 A1, the Peacemaker, and the Ma-Deuce. I was told a couple of years ago that Mr. Kalashnikov, now quite elderly, still comes into the Ishmash plant every day and puts in time. BTW, some folks don’t know why it’s called an AK-47. The A stands for Avtomatic, the K stands for Kakashnikov, and the first ones were made in 1947, the original model year. The AR-15 styling of the 1919, with its carry handle, is an improvement over the AK. The 1919’s more convenient slide racking operation in the event of a stovepipe is also a benefit over the Saiga. I might eventually spring for a 1919 but until the street prices come down, I’ll stick with my drum fed Saiga 12 with pistol grip and adjustable shoulder stock.
I have a 1919, and have found the two mags (3 inch and 2.75 inch) to be totally interchangable. From high powered 3 inch, to low powered 2.75 both magazines feed beautifully, and in several hundred rounds fired, the single failure to eject was with a low powered, badly crimped handload….
I suspect this gun will end up being the new definition of ‘reliable’.
shotgun bill
just the right amount of coverage to whet my appetite.
wonder how much it resembles the Army’s Ar/12shotgun platform I saw several years ago at airshow?
at short distance only the larger barrel, flash hider and magazine were clues.
seem to remember that the thinking behind it was that riflleman could have interchangeables, going from .223 to clip fed shotgun, such as for building entry with same familiarity, trigger, handling, quickpoint, etc for minimal new training required. also avoid other issues
any idea where it went?
I live in California and want to know what if any restrictions are on this shotgun to be sold to me in Cal. my state has some weierd requirments on having weapons for home protection such as this shotgun. It appears this weapon would slow down if not stop in it’s track any home invasion that appears in good old California quite often.
Thank You
Can anyone tell me what choke system this thing uses? Looks like a Rem choke.
Winchoke
Where’s the beef??
What is the news on a high capacity magazine? It is the reason we want a semi auto with a quick detachable magazine. Otherwise we would buy a Remmington or Browning.
This is the 922r question… if 922r applies, putting a hi-cap magazine into a foreign semi-auto shotgun constitutes a federal crime. I’m assuming that an aftermarket of good’ol USA manufacturers will develop, producing quality, US made, 1919 parts that we can use to get the parts count down to the legal limit.
Then, i can see some good sticks and drums coming out. Drums may be touch on this, it’s difficult to make a shotgun (rimmed cartridge), feed through a very long stack (the neck that would protrude into the mag well) reliably, from what i hear. But 10/12 round sticks would be a natural.
here’s something to think about………….. this gun in the AR configuration looks like it will accept the SLIDE FIRE system!!!!!!!! If it feeds properly it will replace the old STREET SWEEPER !!!
looks a lot like the military AA1 shotgun full auto .is this a semi auto version?
Still looking for an answer…
Why can this be imported as a semi-auto, with a removable magazine and pistol grip, and a Saiga-12 cannot be? Izhmash certainly makes them in that configuration.
Also, does 922r apply? Can i accessorize, put folding stocks on, muzzle breaks, etc, without getting that mess of parts down to 10?
Please, i am interested in the answers.
No clue
Well, hoping someone on the board can answer, i do have a note into Clyde to see what he says. Prolly should have gone there first and come here with answers… oh, well.
BTW, the gunsamerica.com coverage has been “just right.” Not inundated with “junk” — mostly just the stuff that would interest me. thanks.
Thanks
I’m with you, I’m a little surprised they can be imported with pistol grips. Here’s my best guess. Saiga’s could be imported with a pistol grip if they (RAAC or Ishmash or both) were to petition the ATF. But it IS A GUESS.
A little history. The Saiga’s were imported in the time of the 94 AWB … it had specific verbiage that disallowed too many “evil features”. That list included pistol grips, collapsing stock, hi cap mags and detachable mags if I remember correctly. Two or more of that and you were an assault weapon by the AWB definition. The AWB has thankfully sunset-ted and is no longer in force, but the Saiga likely had to comply with those rules to be imported. On a side note … and this is one generation from being an eye witness account, a close friend/shooting buddy/fellow Saiga owner said that he saw a copy of an agreement between the gov’t and EAA (who imported Saigas after Kalishnakov USA and before RAAC). The agreement stated they could be imported as long as full capacity mags (8 rounds for S12, 10 rnds for S20) were not imported.
Many felt this was their answer to the question “what puts you into a non sporting category” … i.e. AWB definition. And maybe that was the answer during the AWB? Certainly doesn’t seem to be the case today.
So, again my guess is that Ishmash and Saiga importers seems to never have questioned the sporting purposes or asked if they could import in a pistol gripped configuration after the AWB sunsetted. Or maybe they did, were told “no” at the time, and it’s now permissable? Nah, the ATF wouldn’t reneg on an agreement …. that’s a deliberate joke … sorry if that feels like salt in your wounds all of you ex Akins owners. My guess would be the Russians never asked, they had a shotgun that could be imported and didn’t really care to rock the boat or cater to shooting enthusiasts who wanted a pistol grip configuration.
But I’d bet a LOT of $$ that the ATF was asked about the import-ability of of the 1919, which by rule must be in a sporting config. This means that pistol grips must be allowed on a sporting shotgun?
Still, if you want to introduce a folding/telescoping stock OR high capacity mag (meaning more than 5 rounds) then the current guess is that 922r compliance is required.
The atf/treasury dept has yet to rule on the exact definition and seems to be content keeping it that way. It may take a court case to get a definition made public. I sometimes wonder if they don’t giggle when they see all of the domestic parts being sold for 922r compliance.
I can’t speak to the ATF regs on this, but I’ll bet that the importability of the 1919 is based on the pistol grip, stock, and reciever being all a single unit. The Saiga can be reconfigured to a multitude of “EVIL” looking configurations. From the pictures in the article, it doesn’t look like any user modifications are possible, and gunsmithing would be required.
Exactly right. All one unit. Thats the key.
I’d be very careful about guessing the ATF’s intent, and trying to figure out what is allowed by using logic. That’s a heartfelt plea.
The Saiga had such stocks available as well. Tapco makes them for one, maybe others too? Folks who sold them advocated following 922r because it adds a pistol grip. Maybe they were overly cautious. They are still available … you can see them on mississippi auto arms website, 922r compliance is still advocated there. BTW, I have nothing to do with them … I’m an early Saiga adopter … my earliest Saiga was bought for ~$200 from cdnn investments when they were clearing them out!
So, it’s possible that what the ATF doesn’t like are collapsable stocks (certainly not possible with the single piece stock) … I just refuse to find out by guessing.
My advice to purchasers? Shoot it as is with factory mags or follow 922r compliance before making changes or using higher capacity mags. Remember modifying factory mags to hold more rounds does NOT create a new/domestic part in the eye’s of the ATF.
But I’m the cautious type that doesn’t believe in taking chances, Studying ATF interactions with possible civilian rulebreakers shows a level of ruthlessness that I’ll stay as far away from as possible!
Let me guess – I can’t get o e here in f**king California . . . Or can I???
BAD: Saiga ‘is’ unreliable out of the box, that is my experience, they are grade B fit & finish ,in other words they are not made n Germany – Japan or USA nuff said about that, Saiga give you no company backup like a US made weapon. If you buy a lemon Saiga You better like lemonade.
GOOD: Saiga is rugged as hell, it really is an AK 12ga, and a half dozen US small shops make absolutely awesome parts and upgrades to make them super shotguns, once highly modified and run in for reliability Saiga 12 is the ‘go too’ weapon when a gang of local meth freaks, post nuke war zombies or jack boot ATF are charging thru the door.
1919 Look to be a fantastic weapon, can you say “Beta mag” winks. I see another opportunity for good old American small business machine shop gun guys to make high quality upgrades and bitchen parts for it popping up real soon, then I see all the US AR companies making this platform in a year or two.
Living in AZ, I don’t think I’ll have a problem getting one of these. I was looking at getting a Saiga, but this just changed my mind. I was already a bit leary of getting one because honestly all the ones I have ever seen anyone fife at the local ranges I go to have had failure to eject issues as well as problems with the magazines fitting into them properly.
Too bad it’s not in 20ga: 80% of the range & ammo wt. for 50% of the recoil. Not planning on going goose hunting w/ one of these, so 12ga is overkill…
Wrongo,,, all the 3 gunners and sport shooters use a 12. Sure a 20 would be a nice option for those who want one but the 20 is underkill for most of us.
Kent,
I don’t care who you are (unless of course you’re somebody the size of Andre the Giant!) A 20 gauge slug or buckshot at the distance of a standard size room will damn near cut you in half! Now, maybe YOU enjoy recoil but some of us do not. And some of us have wives and children who may be forced to rely on such a weapon to defend home and life with…..I certainly don’t want my daughter trying to shoulder some oversized cannon of a shotgun and getting beat up just trying to shoot some crazed druggie breaking into my house! A 20 gauge for self defense is more than adequate inside the house…use it for that purpose anywhere else and you’ll be going to jail!
some years . ago, I bought a USAS-12 Semi-Auto it had two stick mag.s and two drums. It was a blast to shoot and a really dependable weapon. A little while latter the great u.s. Goverment decides that thay don’t want people to owen these so the classified it as a destructive device and it needed a class lll lic. What is to stop this from happening again?
Are you saying that only 5 round mags are available?
What about the ten round mags?
What are the prices for extra mags?
I was lucky enough to get 8 of them in last fall. I kept one and sold the other 7 withing 24 hours. HOT!! You bet. Out of the box, I shot 10 rifled slugs at 100 yards and hit the steel gong 8 times. I’m IMPRESSED. You will be too.
Keep Shootin’
I have a Sagia and have not been dissapointed with it. I wanted to use high capacity mags and had to make modifications to use it as a tactical and this was expensive. I saw a MKA-1919 at our local gun show gun show this weekend and I liked it and will start saving up for it. When I get one I will hope to make it a tactical, by the time I get the money up for one, all of the assesories should be there. I will be looking for info on the modifications.
How many times can we invent the wheel ? the article didn’t mention the ease/difficulty of take-down.
Seperate mags for each size ammo? why? sounds like potential for “pain in the butt”
Time and use will tell, (it does look good)…
Saiga has had them out for years along with high cap and drum mags. For under 600!
I agree, I’m very happy with my Saiga…
The Saiga doesnt compare. I have both and have shot a Saiga in 3 gun for years. Hit and miss. My Akdal runs. The Saiga fanboys are like paulbots. Blind to all but their own. I still like my Saiga and will probably have to start the season with it depending on the mag status for the Akdal. After that the Saiga will be put in the back of the safe and probably sold later to buy another Akdal.
The saiga fanboys have never even shot an Akdal for the most part but still are sure its the bestest most stupendous shotgun in the world. Snicker.
“The Saiga fanboys are like paulbots. Blind to all but their own.”
I don’t have a horse in this race (I am still considering both platforms), but from what I have read, it does often take some investment in time and/or money to get a saiga12 running smooth. For those who have spend said time/money, I am sure that they will naturally defend the item that they have invested in. Even if it was running smooth from the start, they still have their initial investment to “defend” (and/or justify to themselves).
I think this principle is what drives these heated online discussions. If someone disparages one platform/device/investment then it offends those who have spent time/money on that item. Same goes with political affiliations and sports teams (we often have some investment in those, if only time and devotion). So I try to take it all with a grain of salt, but at the same time I do like having all these opinions to read and consider at my fingertips!
The Aloha State has law expressly prohibiting the sale or ownership, but not the firing, of rifles that lok like shotguns and rifle looking shotguns. Military firing ranges, the only ones that are affordable, do not allow the firing of such weapons. Oh well, I wonder if a quail or black bear would object to getting hit by the wrong ammo.
C.L. Jacobs
CAPT USN (RET)
How do they define that? Are double rifles illegal? Lever action shotguns? It’s also undefined. What is “looks like”? If the profiles are not identical, one does not look like the other. So assuming that law exists, it is specious and without merit and should be turned into TP by the first court to hear it.
Looks like an interesting gun. Beats buying a Saiga and then spending $600 to make it run right!
Well, actually, it cost almost nothing to get a Saiga-12 to run right (if, by right, you mean “reliable with the low-brass bird shot”), except a little work. The costs are for moving the trigger group (since for some reason, it can’t be imported in this pistol grip configuration), and just adding fun stuff.
I am curious as to why this can be imported in this configuration, and a Saiga can’t? 922(r) doesn’t say “Turkey is ok, but Russia is not,” does it?
I saw a site where someone modded this with a collapsible AR stock. Is that legal without going to 10 or less foreign parts (again, 922r)?
What’s up?
Be sure to tell the maker to make a rifled slug barrel.
@ Severo B. – you must of not read the article. It specifically says the shotgun is available now, cost is $699 for bland and $799 for camo, and your last question is just hard to read. I think I answered it though.
I was really hoping for a comparison between this and the AA12. Specifically the build quality and the accuracy of the rifle. Instead we heard about the Saiga.
Why would you want a comparison of this, to a shotgun (AA12) that you cant buy and will most likely never even see in person?
Do some research and you will see that the Saiga-12 is the pinnacle of box fed 12g shotguns.
Saiga-12 is king of the hill right now. Accessories, speed, in class competition, there is nothing better.
Tromix and a few other builders/manufacturers are pumping out parts for the MKA-1919 as we speak, so it will be a contender to the Saiga-12 in the near future.
I like this gun, very nice !!!
How much it cost ???
What are the requirement for availing that gun???
Thanks
Well, my – o – my. I’m 68 years old. What would my Grandaddy, born in 1870
have to say about this one? What would I have to say about this one?
I’m saving up for a home defense shotgun. I was thinking about the Mossberg
tactical, and that was a stretch for me as I love beautiful walnut with white
spacers, you know…a beautiful gun.
But at $699, I think I’ll have a lot more saving to do because I do like the autos,
and even if I don’t fire the thing, just the look will run the punks out of my house.
Glad you folks sent this email to me. Thanks.
Check out the Kel-Tec KSG too! It’s a bullpup shotgun, so it’s nice and short (good for home defense), and it uses two side by side feed tubes to give it a 14+1 of 12 gauge shells.
Pump action though, not semi-auto
I bought the Mossburg Maverick 12g 8 shot for $225. Work horse for the money!
How much and where can I get it?
this gun looks awsome who going to have them ? when will the y get them?
It has a list of distritributors in the article. You should have your dealer call them and order one for you.
I have one of these. My wife got it for me for our anniv. back in Oct. The only thing this gun needs is a large mag! It is a blast to shoot!
You’re trying to tell us that that Saiga-12 is know for unreliability? Mmmm, kay.
Historically yes, they have always been known to be pieces of junk that sometimes work and sometimes don’t. And if you break one, the Russian approach is to tell you to buy another gun to get the parts.
Sorry, no, they are not generally “unreliable.” With high-brass, most S-12s (with the exception of occasional “vodka specials”), are extremely reliable. Due to the AK design, they can be what we call “undergassed” for walmart value pack, but i’ve seen Bennelli’s that won’t shoot the cheapest stuff. For us “tinkerers” out there, it’s very easy to make a Saiga-12 as reliable as it’s AK-47 cousin. If there is a “history” of unreliability, it would be S-12 newbies thinking that they can buy a combat shotgun and go dove shooting. Right shotty for the right task.
Oh, RAAC is the importer of the S-12, also. I’m a little surprised they can import this, as it is a “new” shotgun configuration, and potentially not covered by the recent import “restriction restriction” imposed on BATFE.
Also, 12g varies from 3 inch magnum to wally world value pack, IF this is based on the AR gas system, it has the potential to be less reliable than the AK. Think about it, the most reliable semi-auto centerfire action in the world has to be “tuned” for the low end of the power spectrum. If this is an AR, you’re saying that a centerfire action with a long history of reliability issues is going to be better?
That said, I hope this is imported, I hope it is reliable. I am always for Clyde making money, and we citizens have more options. If it’s reasonably priced, I do want!
I only feed my Saiga 12 with Wal-Mart birdshot #7 1/2 shot. No problem at all, shot 1,100 rounds so far. The stock gas plug won’t work with low brass that’s why you need to get the MD arms gas plug or Gun Fixer Gas Plug. It has been reliable since day 1. What else can you ask from an AK platform.
All i have to say is I am still waiting on my DPMS LR-308 and now looks like this is another one that I have to add toi the collection ater the LR-308 arrives!! Am excited about this one!
You don’t sound biased at all right. They have been pushing that 1919 in every sales rag for the past year and no one was buying them. Now lets see the Russians came up with the AK what weapon did Turkey produce? I have the Saiga it is a very good weapon made in the same place where the milatary AK is and it is a variation of that weapon that is what not up to the standards of the Turkish 1919? We’ll see if anyone bothers to buy one except for some poor sap that doesn’t see this as an advertisement and not a review by someone who just knows gun. Unless the reader actually knows guns then we both know they aren’t buying the 1919 unless it starts to sell for $19.19
All you did was tell us that they were stupid enough to buy ads in print magazines lol. Turkey houses some of the world’s largest firearm plants.
I wish you were as big a fan of punctuation as you are bashing new product. Tons of variables with new weapons, as GunsAmerica already covered in the article. I remember a funky looking polymer pistol a few years back. Think it rhymed with block. It met with mixed and lukewarm reviews.
Limp loads, break in periods, and trying to produce a complex firearm at a price point that will entice and still produce a profit? Gotta be difficult for a smaller company.
That’s very true I like the saiga to. But give the 1919 a chance it shoots well to.