At the Get Loaded gun store in Grand Terrace, store managers Jamie Taflinger, left, and Kendyll Murray show customer Cornell Hall of Highland different types of ammo. (Gina Ferazzi / Los Angeles Times)
As we reported earlier this month, California residents recently approved Proposition 63, which requires a background check for the purchase of ammunition and bans standard-capacity magazines holding more than 10 rounds of ammo.
The magazine ban is, unfortunately, business as usual in California, but the new ammo restrictions are giving gun store owners a serious headache.
“Trying to learn what we’re going to have to do is a hassle,” Danielle Terry, manager of Shooter’s Paradise, told the Appeal Democrat. “It’s getting harder and harder each year to sell guns and ammo. It’s not right. I don’t see how they can do something like this.”
The law institutes a number of onerous new policies, one of which is an unfortunate side-effect of all government intervention: paperwork.
Before purchasing ammunition, customers will have to apply for an ammunition permit from the Department of Justice. The permit will cost $50 and will be awarded as long as the applicant passes a background check. But the permit will expire in four years, at which point the applicant will have to redo the entire process.
The paperwork doesn’t stop there. Once they receive their ammunition permit, customers will have to present their permit when purchasing ammo and fill out another form with their info, the ammunition info, and a thumb print. Gun stores are required to keep that form for 20 years and be able to produce any form to the Department of Justice upon request.
All of this combines to make purchasing ammunition a burdensome, time-consuming process, and gun store owners aren’t sure how it will affect sales.
“No one really knows what’s happening,” said Harry Cheim, president of Union Guns and Gear.
But confusing paperwork is only one aspect of the new regulation. Prop. 63 also requires all ammunition to be stored behind the counter, including shotgun shells. This requirement presents some serious challenges to small shop owners, who are looking at remodeling their shops to comply with the new policies.
The requirement “presents a huge hurdle, especially with shotgun shells and people who may be purchasing multiple cases,” Cheim said.
“Even though you have to be 21 years old to buy beer, they don’t put it under lock and key, and now they’ve done that with ammo,” he said. “Not too much ammo get stolen. I could see this being done with handgun ammo, but with shotgun ammo, it doesn’t make much sense.”
The rest of the law doesn’t make the situation any better.
Any gun store that wants to sell ammunition must now apply to become a “licensed ammunition vendor.”
And Californians can wave goodbye to online sales: all the new requirements mean that face-to-face sales are mandatory for every purchase.
“These are interesting times, and I don’t know what they’re trying to achieve,” Cheim said. “I think they’re creating more steps for the gun advocates.”
Got questions? Read the full text of Prop. 63 right here.
Attention all illegals, criminals etc. Kaliforny is the place you wanna be so load up your truck and move to Beverly!
For folks who are into semi-automatic rifles and factory ammo this is a nightmare. For single action and CASS buffs who also reload like myself not so much ….. yet! There are a LOT of God fearing and constitution loving patriots living in this state, we must stand together and fight for our constitutional rights not run! This states diverse and beautiful topography and climate are worth fighting for guys ….. don’t give up!
I don’t care if I have lived in some State 20-30 maybe 50 years, if they want to take my freedoms, I’m moving! When citizens stand up against tyrannical moves by any government identity that is what they fear most! If taking ourselves out of that State, our taxes, our spending, our business etc…. is the only thing we can do because we are out numbered by the one’s wearing tin foil hats and living in a dream of lala land, it’s time to go, business and all, then see how long they last as a sanctuary State because that’s about what they are these days in commiefornia!
Just another reason to shop in another state. They aren’t checking the border for ammo or Illegals yet. Only ammo in or out of Mexi.
I heard it through the grape vine that if you get caught transporting ammo across State lines, you will be charged with terrorism on a felon side. There is not any one that wants to deal with California’s screwed laws, and they will not deal with anything by mail related in anyway to firearms period! Sorry, and all other States nip it in the bud…don’t let firearms laws even get anyway started if you can. Once the camel’s nose gets under the tent, remember California!
All the gun rights groups need to get together and file lawsuits regarding this blatant violation of the peoples right to keep and bear arms. If you can’t buy ammo, and this seriously limits the peoples right to purchase ammo, then you can’t exercise your right to bear arms. I’m so glad I moved out of that hellhole of a state.
What do you expect from ‘The Republik of Kalifornia’? And the key to it is the liberal a$$#oles that live there voted it in! Goes right along with the three left coast states being ‘sanctuary states’ that provide haven for illegals that intend to do absolutely no good while taking full advantage of what our great country has to offer.
Ammo and magazine sales in the bordering towns of Arizona, Nevada and Oregon will definitely be going up.
Well it seems that a state can’t secede from the Union… how about if the Union kicks a state out out the Union? If Trump really builds the “Wall” maybe when it gets to Arizona the builders should head north with it and head back west at the Oregon border. Or, if thinks keep going just build it all the way up to Canada and fence off the whole Left Coast. Just a thought. Socialism is a mental disease and should be isolated as such so the rest of us don’t get infected.
After Trump appoints a couple of constitutionalists to the Supreme bench, this ammo background check will be brought before the court and rightfully rescinded.
All “Normal Freedom loving Americans that live in California need to get together and join the N.R.A. and DO SOMETHING other then bend over every time the idiots that were elected by Idiots pull crap like this.
Do you know that this was a Hillary Clinton State???? That should tell you how stupid and goofy the people living there are. Not all but “MOST” Duh!!!!!
I’m sure there are some people living in that cesspool that have enough gumption can act together and end this farce of a government in California.
I think this one was a referendum and the people did it to themselves. I don’t think the ones who voted for this abomination have the right to restrict other people’s rights this way.
Sadly for California, the more of us who love our freedoms that are supposed to be guaranteed by the constitution leave to more conservative environs, the more left the state voters average becomes.
Washington State had an ammo registration scheme in the 60’s. It lasted less than 2 years, being dumped by the state as too costly (to the state), in addition to being ineffective. Washington State actually learned from this useless registration scheme and government stupidity and for the past 50 or so years has been a pretty fair state. Of course, now that the educated… er, indoctrinated… under 40’s and California transplants living in and around Seattle are voting in greater numbers it may not be long until government stupidity raises its ugly head and further screws up our lives. You would think they would learn, but nope, they have no knowledge of history or, for that fact, little else.
California is attempting to avoid that “mistake” by making the system self-funding through licensing fees. At $50 a shot, and app. 10 million firearms owners in this state, that is $500 million every four years. Will it solve crimes? No, but despite the politicking about “Safety for All”, the true purpose of this bull is to make shooting too expensive and too onerous, causing people to stop shooting. the fact that the people who aren’t involved in shooting sports any longer are the law-abiding and not the gangbangers out killing people is of no consequence. The continuance of “gun violence” after the law takes effect in a couple of years is simply a feature that will allow the passage of even more restrictive gun laws. You see, they hate us, and they have a plan and the votes to put the plans into effect.
Welcome in Clintons voters state Im not wonder California become KKK Kosher Komunist Kontry.
?
Been here 6 decades and can’t understand how fuok’d up things have gotten…other than all the refugees from the east coast and plenty of other states asshules that came into this once beautiful and constitution loving state was… but, understand folks, it was them that fuok’d up this great state…not those of us born and raised here, a lot of us live in the country, but as you all can see the big cities are where policy is made and votes are driven. I am ashamed of how california has become…and i will be moving soon…if you ask why, read the news.
Don’t blame the east coast, we don’t have to ask permission to wipe our own asses.
Well that’s not entirely true. Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York, and Maryland are just a few of the east cost states that have taken the path that California has taken with their own set of oppressive and unconstitutional gun laws. I am afraid that even with a Supreme Court stacked with pro-second amendment justices, it may never be sorted out or have these laws rescinded.
New Jersey!
What they are trying to do is pretty simple, they believe that if they can make anything that they fear so buried in paperwork & rules to continue that we will just give up then they will declare victory & move on to the next thing on their list to ban. They truly believe that the rest of us ( the silent majority ) would be better off if we just step aside & let the vocal minority run the world .
I (fortunately or unfortunately) live in the eastern part of California. Almost all the idiot liberals live along the coast ( San Fransicko, Lost Angeles, etc.). Maybe we will get lucky and they will all fall off into the Pacific Ocean when the San Anrdreas fault explodes. The coastal areas, where most of the population lives, is on the other side of the fault. Unfortunately, the fault doesn’t behave like that and someday Lost Angeles will be up in Northern California. Wish I could move to somewhere like Texas.
I would love the federal government make every cop who wants to buy ammo in CA to have to jump through all those loops as well as everyone else.
Also, make the PD’s give up any magazine more than 10 rounds!
HEY, IT’S THE LAW AND COPS ARE NOT ABOVE IT OR EXEMPT!
Why stop there? Add all federal, state, LEOs and military too! On the other hand, the Leftist government types might like it… never mind.
This is discrimination… I have severe nerve damage from a car accident May 7 2011 where the other party ran a stop sign and hit me. I have trouble writing because it requires head and neck movement which causes severe nausea, migraines, loss of bladder control ( either release or preventing release for upwards of a week ), among other issues…
Forcing us to fill out forms is disgusting, and if I was a gun shop owner I wouldn’t honor that illegal law.
What Did Vice-President Joe Biden Say? ” We can’t Take away their guns… but we can make ammo so expensive they won’t be able to use them” Stated in the chamber of congress.
The lead sponsor of this resolution (no.63) was/is Gavin Newsom, former Mayor of San Francisco.
Mr. Newsom is currently Lt. Gov. of California.
He is handsome, intelligent, fiercely telegenic, and most of all, ambitious.
He reminds me of a nausea-inducing televangelist.
Governorship of the state of California is a given, so what is his real agenda?
He has not quite got the years — the perceived maturity — yet to be Prez., but wait.
Welcome to 2028, with another Democrat in the White House.
Dave Robicheaux, the literary invention of author James Lee Burke, pines for the New Orleans and southern Louisiana delta of his youth, fifty years in the past. I pine for the U.S. of the 1950s, when I was a child.
What the hell has happened?
Anyone?
I’m a 3rd gen’ Californian, and it kills me to watch this state go from Dream to Nightmare. We’re a ‘liberal’ state that voted overwhelmingly for that fascist Hillary – but when my rent has increased 40% in 4 years, with no controls whatsoever, I’m told:
“If we were a more Democrat state, there would be some rent control, but that’s what happens when you live in a Republican state”
WTF????
Some light at the end of the tunnel, perhaps:
“In the days after the passage of Lt. Governor Gavin Newsom’s Proposition 63, gun rights groups are readying legal action that will include appeals to the Supreme Court that will be populated with justices chosen by President-Elect Donald Trump”.
http://www.breitbart.com/california/2016/11/15/gun-rights-groups-ready-legal-action-prop-63/
~ Occams
California is the shining example of what happens when a state is flooded with so many non Americans that they out number the American. They come from countries that are near dictatorships and have never had the rights so many take for granted. Couple that with bushels of ignorant libtards and the normal people are screwed.
And ALL of this BS will not stop one criminal or nutjob from getting his/her hands on a gun & the ammo to feed thru it. But it will cause the law abiding gun owners & the potential new gun buyers lots of trouble &, after all, isn’t that the real intent of these foolish leftist anti Constitution bills in the first place?
1. NOW THAT DONALD TRUMP (Yay) is ELECTED OUR PRESIDENT and has the majority of votes in the House and Senate, HERE ARE SOME SUGGESTIONS FOR HIS ADMINISTRATION RELATING TO GUNS.
A. The size, scope and power of the ATF needs to reduced to sale of explosives, missiles and automatic weapons. Semi automatic weapons of ALL SIZES should be exempt from ATF jurisdiction. Suppressors and body armor and standard rifle and handgun ammo should also be EXEMPT.
B. Sale of Semi-Auto Guns, Ammo and Accessories should be standard in ALL STATES and TERRITORIES in the USA. State gun laws should all be federally abolished.
C. Concealed Carry Laws and Reciprocity should be STANDARD and the SAME in ALL STATES and TERRITORIES OF THE USA.
THIS MAKES PERFECT COMMON SENSE and would save the states BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in enforcement costs.
Sincerely, Ringo
Actually the second amendment does not allow for those laws you suggest. They still infringe on your right to keep and bear arms. If you have to ask permission, your right has been infringed. If you can’t buy a certain type of gun, your right has been infringed. If they can tell you where or how you can carry it, your right has been infringed.
There’s too many anti-gun nuts here in Commiefornia. They have no idea about gun laws here, nor do they even care. They just want to make things harder for anybody to get guns or ammo. They can’t sort out the law-abiding citizens from the hard-core criminals, and so they just pass these anti-gun laws that covers everybody overall. That’s why there’s a lot of pissed-off people here in CA. And that’s also why we get so much road rage here. There’s too many stupid laws overall, and not just anti-gun laws.
“They can’t sort out the law-abiding citizens from the hard-core criminals”. They know exactly who are the hard-core criminals. But they fear being labeled as “racist” if they single them out. It’s the same thing they do with the airlines. Like a child or grandma might be a terrorist. They treat everyone the same and then hope they some how catch all the bad guys. Good luck with that you dumbas_ progressives.
The left doesn’t need to end the 2ndA. Like Hillary said, they can just keep passing “common sense laws” until buying guns and ammo is more trouble than its worth. They think if they eliminate “legal guns” then that will end the supply of illegal guns. This might work if guns were like sneakers and would wear out after a year or two.
Hope Trump doesn’t regret becoming POTUS. The press will keep trying to vilify him constantly for the next 4 year and hope he leaves after one term or even less if they can get him impeached. Aren’t all these progressives are so kind and caring? NOT.
Agreed, but you are talkin 97% those L.A. and bay area folks…smh
I don’t see what rights keep people in California. It is the most communist state in America. There is absolutely nothing good about California
The weather is good, and….and….and….
The weather is good, and….and….and….
I would comment on this, but I would probably get banned from commenting or sued for honestly expressing my thoughts even though the 1st Amendment is suppose to afford me that .
Go ahead. Give it a shot. (so to speak) You have a right to express your opinion even if it’s wrong. How can anyone know if it’s wrong if you don’t tell us what it is? So go ahead.
Every gun owner in California is VERY frustrated with the passage of these idiotic new laws that will do NOTHING to deter criminals.The liberal morons in this state are slowly eroding our second amendment rights.What frustrates me the most is the NRA’s lack of support to fight these propositions BEFORE they become law.They have done nothing to help California gun owners.I say to the NRA and all gun owners in the US this is not just California’s fight but all gun owners fight.California is a big state with a lot of political pull and if the momentum gets rolling trust me YOUR state could be next.Come on NRA step up to the plate and help California gun owners fight these new laws.I have been a NRA member for many years but feel abandoned and unless they take some action I will not renew my membership.
Help for CA can only come by way of the federal govt. (Supreme Court) forcing them to follow the Constitution. I believe there is no amount of NRA $ that can convince Californians to fix themselves.
Only fools or knaves say that this pointless burden on good America citizens is not intended to be so onerous as to dissuade Americans from exercising their Second Amendment rights. Ammo behind counters? How many crimes in CA are shown to have derived from ammunition stolen because it was not behind a counter? And counters mean nothing: just look at the jewelry stolen from secured display cases behind counters. Get real. Time for this idiocy to be taken to court. I guess next CA and other collectivist and unAmerican regimes will require licenses renewed every four years for buying word processing software and printers: You never know when Obama’s latest bugaboo, “false news,” might crop up. Those darned American citizens, daring to create hypotheticals and comment about them without perfect citations. Foolish apparatchiks in un-American California.
At what point does one just say “the Hell With It” and move out of California???
Did that already… LOL
Clearly this violates the 2nd Amend. As soon as Trump appoints a new justice to the SCOTUS, this will just be a bad memory. I’m sure it will take a couple years,dam that state sucks
Californians should do two things:
1. Throw everything they can behind secession so California can become North Mexico.
2. Once successful, move to the United States.
If you live in California it sucks to be you. Feel free to move to a Deep South Red State.
Why would you want that? That’s what ruined Colorado!
That’s different. In the 1990s, CA real estate was booming so CA liberals cashed out and bought then-cheap CO real estate. They weren’t fleeing, they were infesting. Californians leaving the state now are refugees jumping off a sinking ship who won’t be bringing disastrous voting habits. A repeat is the last thing they want.
I’ve noticed one funny thing about the communist leaning states; The cost of everything rises while the value of everything drops.
“The permit will cost $50 and will be awarded as long as the applicant passes a background check. But the permit will expire in four years, at which point the applicant will have to redo the entire process.”
THESE ASSHOLES IN NY TRIED TO DO THE SAME THING WITH PASSAGE OF THE ‘SAFEACT’. WHEN THEY REALIZED THEY COULD NOT USE THE NICS CHECK SYSTEM TO PERFORM THE CHECKS FOR AMMUNITION SALES (NICS IS FOR FIREARMS ONLY) THEY HAD TO GIVE UP ON THAT PART OF THE SAFEACT. SO HOW IS CALIFORNIA DOING BACKGROUND CHECKS. ARE THEY ILLEGALLY USING NICS?
Prop 63 does call for a NICS check, and that will likely go away for the reasons you state, but the competing law (sponsored by Senator DeLeon who also wants to be governor), passed and signed by Brown calls only for an instant check against the California APPS list (armed prohibited persons system), which has names of everyone convicted of disabling crimes, those involuntarily committed to a psychiatric institution under W&I Code 51550, and all those under prohibition pursuant to a restraining order. Since it is just a list of names, and the buyer has to supply identifying information, this will likely have the effect intended by 63 without contravening federal law.
At what point do the fees associated with exercising one’s Constitutionally guaranteed right become considered excessive enough to be compared with a poll tax?
This is what happens when people buy into this (bearing arms) being “A States’ Rights” issue. Just as Amendments 1, 3-9 Are not rights that “A State” can limit or deny the individual. Furthermore 2A is unique in that it makes this clear within the Amendment itself. “Right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infr….”(you know the rest). It is already clearly a Right Already Reserved To The People, not the State(s)’. Also 9A further backs up that 10A does not allow the infringement of those other rights already stated.
Ammo sales in neighboring states will skyrocket. Just as NY can’t stop illegal importation of cigarettes from NC, CA won’t be able to stop ammo importation from Nevada, etc. Just another income source for the gangs. But liberals believe criminals obey laws, so they pass lots of them.
Bringing in ammo from out of state is a misdemeanor. The fine isn’t all that much, but the loss of all the ammo you just bought, confi8scated as contraband, might be pretty hurtful.
They just wave about 99.9% of vehicle through the gates on the 40. I have to go back and forth frequently and mostly they just ask where I’m coming from.
In Kingman, AZ a person can buy quite a bit of ammo at swap meets, yard sales etc.
Second amendment……..use it, or lose it. It is there to keep us armed enough to rise against the tyrants that our Founders knew would eventually take over our government at all levels. But nobody is willing to give up what the gov’t is letting us have.
Sure makes it difficult for people who live in neighboring states, with family in California, to visit. We moved to Nevada in 1992 because of California’s ever-increasing over-regulation of everything – now we can’t even drive back to visit without having to be disarmed.
Cali has become a cesspool for liberals and a conservative doesn’t stand a chance there anymore. I can guarantee those gun owners living in Cali, you are fixing to get some relief. What’s being done to those individuals who love their 2nd amendment in Cali is wrong, anti American. As soon as Trump appoints his Supreme Court Justice the constitution will be restored to the State of Cali.
You obviously have no idea of the actual powers vested in the President. You also lack a simple understanding of how cases are brought to the Supreme Court, which by the way, is a Federal entity. States can make laws that affect individual citizens so long as those rights don’t directly contravene the rights enumerated by the constitution. Limiting magazine capacity, restricting certain styles of firearm, prohibiting the sale of certain ammunition, all of these are within the purview of States rights. You need to vote at the state level to effect change, no Supreme Court ruling or POTUS can do it for you.
As our next Commander and Chief would say, “WRONG”! Z you really do need to bone up on the Federal Laws!
I can see a LOT of ammunition stores pooping up in bordering states along the Kalifornia borders.
Imagine the smell.
HAR!!!
I love the smell of gunpowder. It reminds me of FREEDOM!!!
We can smoke pot but we can’t buy ammo….wth Cali?
We can grow pot in our homes and drink beer at 21 but must pass a background check to buy some shells.
I belive their goal is to make it so difficult to be an active gun owner, that you’ll either give it up, or leave California. They truly want to be a legally owned gun-free state. More power to them I guess. The recent presidential election won’t have much bearing on the situation there. California can do what it wants at a state level. Personally, I wish CA would drop off into the Pacific, but since that probably won’t happen, we’ll have to put up with them. I’m more concerned with their political pull, given the size of the state. THANK GOD for the electoral college. If we didn’t have that, California would be responsible for deciding EVERY national election. Then, they would be forcing their anti-gun, anti-American, anti-constitutional, anti-freedom agenda on the rest of us. Is it too late to give that state back to Mexico?
Regarding your opening statement…anyone who thinks this was not the intention of this law – and all others that have been passed before – is living either in fantasy-land or in California.
This ‘law’ is in direct violation of the FOPA ’86.
Cali gun owners and vendors need to file a suit to nullify this BS law.
Really? What part of FOPA would that be? the Interstate Commerce Act, maybe, but even that may be a stretch, since there are ways for out of state ammunition vendors to sell to California residents, as long as the already over burdened FFLs is California agree to accept shipments and process the paper work for the $10 fee allowed by statute. (Since this will cut into their profits and limit their own sales of ammo, I doubt there will be many of them.)
I don’t think this was done for revenue purposes- They are doing anything to price out the average person to gain a no-gun state. Next will be expensive insurance you will be forced to have in order to even own a firearm.
I suspect the gun shows in Reno and Las Vegas will become popular destinations for may gun owners in California.
Said shows have long been popular with Californians but their ammo is costlier than that which is avaiable online and the variety is less than. So much for competition.
Hmm….wonder how things will go with the DOJ being under new management and not enforcing or not issuing said permits because they are frivolous and unnecessary…??? I don’t get these crazy Kalifornia Libtards! There’s no way on this earth I would live or remain in such a twisted place. I hate the idea of big govt or govt stepping in on states business….but when a state has turned as socialist as Kalifornia has, there HAS to be something that can be done. I just don’t get why, if they hate freedom so much and hate this great nation so much, why don’t they just leave…??!! There are lots of socialist countries who would love to have them! I’m sure there are immigrants out there who want to come to our country for the freedoms it affords and would love to become useful members of American society.
That’s just what they want- All of us horrible gun owners to move away or get locked up where they think we belong. Then they can enjoy true paradise in a world without violence.
California is always looking for ways to gouge its citizens for more revenue, so it’s no surprise the fee for this “permit”. But in their zeal to screw the armed citizen, they just created a new black market. Ammo will be coming in from all over the place and sold in backrooms and other nefarious locations, and criminal income will get an uptick. Apparently we can record history, but can’t learn from it. Am I right Mr. Capone?
Given the legal importation of ammunition across state lines is also forbidden, (I.E you can’t buy ammo out of state then drive home with it) black market sales are going to be popular, as is business with gun-stores on the state lines by Cali residents who are willing to ignore the ban on trafficking ammo across the state lines.
Makes me sooo glad I live in Vermont where the 2A is still upheld in all its glory.
VT upholding the 2nd in all its glory?
2016…
Hillary Clinton – 178,573 (56.7%)
Donald Trump – 95,369 (30.3%)
Bernie Sanders – 18,183 (5.7%)
…sure it is. 😮
Ha ha ha ha!!! Nice vote, VT…