  The Kel-Tec Sub-2000 is about a different a gun as you will find. It works fantastic and has some great practical uses.  Folded, the Sub-2000 is 16″ long, close to credit card size.  The gun folds right at the breech. This allows really easy cleaning of all the stuff that gets dirty with burnt gunpowder.  The Sub-2000 is very different from the Sub-9 that was mostly aluminum and had a button to release the folding front of the gun. With the Sub-2000 you pull down on the trigger gaurd, similar to dissasembling a Garand or M1A.  Standard configuration takes a Glock 17 mag, but you can get them compatable with several types of duty pistols.  All three types of Hornady 9mm ammo we tested in the Sub-2000 shot about 200 fps. faster than it would with a normal pistol barrel.  Generally you will shoot a rifle with a longer sight radius better than a pistol of the same caliber. In casual shooting at 25 yards on a sandbag the Sub-2000 shot into a few inches with some shooter error. It is an accurate gun for a suprisingly small price.  The trigger on the Sub-2000 was suprisingly crisp, and broke at a consistent just under six and a half pounds.  The tactical rail sleeve for the Sub-2000 is $97 direct from Kel-Tec. |
Kel-Tec CNC
https://www.keltecweapons.com/
Marching to the beat of your own drummer can be a challenge in the gun world. But over and over again, Kel-Tec CNC, the company we all know for their tiny extremely affordable and reliable pocket pistols, keeps showing up with a new beat, and the guns are some of the most interesting in the entire shooting world.
The Sub 2000 is a folding pistol-caliber polymer carbine, and that is about where standard descriptions run out of gas. At first glance you may try to compare it to a gun you already know, but quickly you realize that it is unlike any other gun you know.
You find yourself saying, “It’s kind of like a … um, no, it’s kind of like nothing.”
The Sub-2000 cocks in the rear, and all of the moving parts of the gun are located in the rear. If you look in the pictures, that whole front barrel assembly swings up from a release in the trigger guard and the entire gun effectively folds in half. It is pretty much a totally unique firearm.
At an MSRP of $409 and a street price well under $400, the Sub-2000 is loaded with features that you wouldn’t expect in such an inexpensive gun. It takes Glock 17 mags in the standard model, but Kel-Tec is also shipping them in Glock 19, Smith & Wesson 59 type, Beretta 92 & 96, and Sig 226 configurations, and the gun is available in both 9mm and .40S&W. The plastic rear sight automatically flips up when you deploy the front of the rifle, and the front sight is a completely adjustable fiber optic. The barrel is 16″, and the weight is only slightly more than a pistol at 4lbs. It fold down to 16″ long.
This is the second version of what was called the Sub-9 before, introduced many years ago. I have found a few internet pictures of that gun, which is similar to this gun visually, but it was made primarily of aluminum, not polymer, so it was more expensive, and heavier. I don’t have rights to those pictures to post them, but the reports I have read suggest that the gun was rare and you don’t see them often. For those examples that made it out, they were reliable for 1000s of rounds, much like every other Kel-Tec I have tested.
I elected to just empty the standard mag on zombie targets from a bag in casual shooting, at 25 yards. To assure you that I wasn’t shooting real zombies, I didn’t take head shots. The Sub-2000 grouped into several inches, with a few fliers the fault of the shooter. With a rifle you have a longer distance between the two sights, which is called sight radius, so by nature you will shoot more consistently.
The sights on the Sub-2000 are polymer, and I wouldn’t go banging them around a great deal, but Kel-Tec had the good thinking to use an aperture rear with the fiber optic front. For quick sight acquisition an aperture sight is the best choice in a rifle. Your eye will automatically center the tip of the glowing front sight in the rear. And that front sight is adjustable with included tools and clear instructions.
There is also a tactical version of this gun on the Kel-Tec website and thanks to an early comment on this article I was able to figure out where you get it. Kel-Tec sells the replacement quad-rail for $97 direct. It and might be a good option as a backup weapon in a security guard position. It can take the same mags as your duty pistol, including the factory and aftermarket 30 rounders.
I was able to test the Sub-2000 with three versions of Hornady 9mm combat ammo. Generally a 16″ barrel will produce more velocity than a 3″ to 5″ pistol barrel because more powder burns behind the bullet before it exits the muzzle. From a standard 9mm pistol barrel, 115gr. Hornady Critical Defense with the FTX bullet normally clocks around 1,140 fps. With the Sub-2000 I measured it at 1,332 fps. The 124gr. TAP FPD is listed at 1,110 fps. I clocked that one at 1300 fps., and the 147gr. Hornady Custom, which is supposed to be a subsonic round, clocked at 1,175 fps., above the supersonic threshold of 1,126 fps. That extra 200 or so feet per second makes a big difference in how hard the 9mm round hits. If you use the muzzle energy, or foot/lbs. calculation, velocity is squared, so in the case of the 124gr. TAP for instance, the standard energy is 339 ft./lbs. With the extra speed on the bullet using the Sub-2000 it comes out to 465 ft./lbs.
You can fit the Sub-2000 in your backpack, laptop case, and in the front pocket of most suitcases. For a pistol caliber carbine, there are definitely more elegant examples than the Sub-2000, and certainly more expensive ones. But the Kel-Tec Sub-2000 is a gun you should definitely consider before spending more on a different gun that is likely not a better gun, and may not even be as good a gun. It also definitely gets the nifty award for this week’s Gunsamerica Blog.
Kel-Tec CNC
Has anyone had problems with the Kel-Tec manufactured quad rail coming loose from the barrel while shooting? I shot less than 40 rounds through my 9mm sub 2000 before the quad came loose and start slipping on the barrel of the gun. It is secured by two U brackets that tighten onto the barrel to hold the bottom of the quad rail to the gun. The top part then attaches to the bottom section with several screws. Any help or comment would help. Thanks, Hospitalchief
I had the same problem; I tried locate multiple times but the lousy design caused it to come loose all the time. I ended up tack-welding the U brackets to the barrel. No more issues.
Nice comments, above, i have numerous handguns and a 5.56 rifle, I had a chance to demo one of these at the local range. To guy that said this wasn’t a good firearm, hogwash! you probably shouldnt be on a range then. While its not a tack driver i would consider 5″ groups at 15 yds. totally acceptable, for any defense. The model i had fired had the Bolt boron coated and used Glock mags. On nearly 50 rounds 2 flyers and had no fail to fire. I had never picked up a rifle like this prior to trying this out. Now if I could find one for around 300 -400 mark let me know I would get it in a heartbeat.
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PS = mine is a Glock 17 configuration to match my 3rd gen.
i’d like to buy on either in s&w or sig cant find them
To those who think KelTec has items readily available here is what Impact guns has to say about this KelTec gun.
Kel-Tec RMR30 Carbine, 22 Win Mag
Dream On <- This is actually on the web page….
Price : $449.99
Reality Check:
We hope to sell a lot of these carbines– someday.
Can you expect to really get one anytime soon?
The sad truth is that Kel-Tec cannot deliver product in any realistic quantity.
So we advertise it with this caveat: Buyer Beware- not really available anytime soon.
When I bought mine my local gun shop would not commit to a delivery date. They did have a standing order for more than the # of people on the waiting list. I was 7th on the list of people who had paid a deposit of at least 1/2 the price or in full as I did completing my paperwork at the same time. That was on 10th of one month and picked it up on the 5th of the next month. Just short of 4 weeks. Have been to the range twice and love this little firecracker of a gun. Sights checked out using a bore laser at 50 yards and so far 250 rounds of flawless performance.
cross eye dominate it sounds like
Got lucky and recently bought a barely used .40 Sub 2000 for $200. Purchased a couple of the Korean made Glock high cap mags and am a VERY happy camper. Takes a little more effort to make sure the Korean mags are firmly seated as it’s a tighter fit, but everything works as it should. The gun shoots well and I’ve had no failures in over 500 rounds shot since I bought it. From 25 yds I can hit 10 out of 10 clay pigeons with the sub 2000, but only 8 out of 10 with my Browning HP 9mm, and I’d consider myself a good shot with that pistol. That’s not to say it’s a target rifle, but it’ll hit what it’s aimed at out to a reasonable distance. With long arms, I kind of have to scrunch up to get any kind of cheek weld, but it can be done. Haven’t shot it a more than 30 yds, but I have a Crimson Trace rail mounted laser sight that I’m fixin to put on it to see how it does at 50 to 100 yds. My only gripe is the head of one of the screws that secure the receiver broke off. One of these days I’ll fix it but for now it functions just fine. I would agree that the heavier grain ammo works best. The inexpensive Winchester white box loads from China Mart perform as well as anything else I shot through it. Have been toying with the idea of getting it Duracoated in urban camo pattern just for grins. We’ll see. BTW, I carry mine in a hard sided brief case when I’m away on business. Have to be prepared when a business meeting will turns ugly. 🙂
One thing not mentioned yet is the sex appeal of this folder. Panties literally fly off when fired at the co-educational shooting range.
Awesome little gun. But none have ever bested my Marlin Camp 9. Darn it! why did they retire that gun?
Ken, not sure why your 9mm S&W version won’t lock up the mags, mine works perfectly with the hi-cap 30 & 40 rounder aftermarket mags and my factory mags. I have a S&W Model 59 and a 5906 and the three share mags without issue.
And Kirk, my experience is in line with OldSage, pie pan sized groups off hand and saucer sized groups resting at 100 yards.
I agree Mike, I’d buy one tomorrow if they made the Sub2K for M&P mags. I’ve owned an SU-16 and my daily carry is aPF-9.
I live in New York and want to know if the Kel-Tec Sub 2000 is considered a hand gun or a riflel…and do you need a pistol permit?
Thanks,
Fred Tripp
Does anybody know where one can be found.
I just want one of these things. Haven’t seen one in over a year.
Great lite weapon. Used it in .40 s&w to hunt coyote’s from our barn in SW Virginia. Lookin forward to getting a 9mm W/ Glock mags. It shot 1″ groups off hand at 20yds.
I have one of the Kel Tec sub 2000 in 40 cal. it is nice to use the same clip as my Glock. I can shoot lead 180 gr. bullets through it, and it is fun to shoot.
I would buy one of these in a heartbeat if they had a Smith and Wesson M&P mag version. They build them to accept Smith and Wesson 59 and 4006 mags, but not M&P. I emailed Kel-Tec on this and got a short, to the point reply. They have no plans to introduce an M&P version.
Stupid on Kel_Tec’s part. I have shot Sub-2000’s and love them. They’d have a lot of customers with an M&P mag version.
Sweet! Perfect little zombie-killer for under the seat or in my backpack!
I think that you misquoted the speed of the rounds leaving the barrel.
“All three types of Hornady 9mm ammo we tested in the Sub-2000 shot about 200 fps. faster than it would with a normal pistol barrel. ”
200 fps ??
A .50 Caliber paintball gun IS faster than that !!
Did you REALLY mean 1200 fps ??
200 faster, hello?
I live in New York and I do not have a pistal permit…is the Kel-Tec 2000 legal for a individual without a pistal permit? Is it considered a pistal or rifle? Thanks, Fred
It is a rifle.
It is not a rifle in Michigan, however. I needed a pistol permit to buy and sell my Sub2K. Not sure about NY, or any other state.
I Need One! Look’s like a fun one to shoot…..
I know I’d love one – if I could win one during the NRA Giveaway weekend I’d be thrilled…
Awesome review. I am completely sold on the Kel Tec sub 2000. The only problem is that no one has them in stock. Why is it so hard to find these? Help!
Kel-Tec has had trouble keeping up with demand for all of their cool stuff.
Great review. I have bee thinking about picking one of these up but wasn’t sure if I was going 9mm or .40. Since my pistol is 9mm and the clips being compatible, added to the extra velocity using the 124gr. I think I’m going that route.
My Expereince was with a Glock version of the sub-2000. I loved it for all the reasons listed above but it was not 100% reliable. Failure to Feed etc. I shot hundreds of rounds of various 9mm ammo, probably close to 1000 rounds using different sizes of Glock mags. Including the 30+ round mags. I liked the concept but the most important issue, not 100% reliable is the criteria I use and therefore I sold it. It didn’t miss fire on every mag or every time, but enough that I wouldn’t trust it. I would not trust it for anything serious and even as cheap as it is there are more reliable fun guns that I own.
Now since some of the posters claim their Sub 2000’s are reliable maybe I will try it again but in a Sig 226 format, maybe it was the Glock format that I had that was the issue.I would still have it if it was reliable.
I bought my Sub 2K in 9mm S&W because I have a dozen S&W factory mags for my Mod 59. The dealer assured me that was the mag the gun was made for. My mags don’t lock in place. They fall out when you move the gun or fire it. I spoke to Kel-Tec, they said send it to them for a fix. I did and got the gun back WITH EXACTLY THE SAME PROBLEM! Obviously Kel-Tec can’t/won’t try to fix their problems. Anyone have a possible solution?
Did you send them both the gun and the mags (at least a few)? Try that–you’ll find out what the problem is.
I have the same Sub 2000 that takes S&W 59 mags, and had the same problem with mags not locking. When to LGS where purchased and he advised to take a small file and file the top of the mag lock opening hole, small amounts at a time and keep doing until the mag locks in place. I even had to file the Mec-Gar 10 round mag that came with gun. Now all my mags that I filed on, lock up great and I don’t have any more problems with them not locking. Make sure to file the mags a little each time until they will lock in place, if you file it to much it will ruin the mag. Hope this helps. Also I purchased a 30 round mag and it works great locks every time. Problem seems to be the bottom foot plate on 59 mags not fitting up in the handle.
I can’t find anyone who has these in stock and I have been looking for 6 months!
It’s funny how many people have negative comments about Keltecs guns. I believe that many people make comments that have never owned or fired them. I own alot of guns, CZ’s, Kimbers and Sigs. I also own a Keltec PLR16 in .223. It is one hell of a good SHTF weapon. I take care of my guns and keep them clean and in good working order. My PLR with 5.56 hollow points is a hellfire weapon. It is extremely accurate and deadly lethal at 100+ yards. It is very durable and compact. It is one of my favorites. I also own a Armalite AR15 carbine. It is just as reliable as my Armalite. I am soon going to purchase a Keltec S2000 9mm. The 9mm keltec at 100 yards has the same knock down power as a 357 magmum at point blank. I quess some will say you need the .40, but the 9mm will interchange with my Sig 9mm and it appears that it will do the job IMHO.
Cool, i want one, does Gander Mountain or Bass Pro Shops, even Cabelas carry them? How about Fin, Feathers and Furs ( Great Lakes States)? If not what other large retailer?
What store has them in stock?
I just bought a Sub2000 today , I am in love with this gun, it is the best carbine I have ever bought. Nothing bad to say about this weapon !
My son and I have eached purchased a SUB 2000 in .40 using Glock 22 magazines, after using the rifle only one time we took them with us to a local Bianchi Cup type competition to see if we could try them out on the course after the actual competition ended.
I am not the best competitor at the match with my Glock 23 nor is my son with his Glock 23 however when we tried the course out with the SUB 2000’s after the match, I was able to put down all 8″ steel plates in 4.4 seconds with 6 rounds, this is my worst phase of the competition and this was the best I ever shot it. My son hit 5 of the 6 8″ plates, missing one but his time was 4.5 seconds.
The most astounding work done with it was when my son engaged the 5 large speed plates, we were using the official timer for the competition and I could not believe it when he dropped all 5 speed plates with 5 shots in a remarkable 1.1 seconds. The gun is kind of ugly and not what you think of when you think of tactical but neither of ours have ever jammed and after our experiences shooting them I would not hesitate to grab the SUB 2000 to defend myself or my family. Anyone that says these guns can’t shoot has no idea what they are talking about or the one they tried was seriously flawed.
I just got mine the Wednesday night. It’s Saturday and I’ve had 3 range sessions already., two outdoor and one inside at Bobs. Love it Love it Love it. Cans and golf balls dance at 50 feet. 8 Inch plates at 100 yards are not a problem and I’ve barely touched the front site.
My only issues so far are failures to eject which I am assuming will dissipate after proper break in.
I got it 9 in Glock only because it walked in the door of my LGS 5 minutes before I did. I would love to have the Beretta or Sig version instead as I have both a 226 and 92FS so if anyone is interested in a trade, let me know.
Awesome fun gun.
I just bought the K2 in a 40 Glock. So far everything looks great.
I plan to put a rail on the front with a Fore Grip and a Cheek Cover for the spring tube.
The only hang up that I can see is with this gun is the grip.
A Hogue condom might help a little, but dose anyone make an extender for the bottom of the grip ?
My pinky finger is completely off the gun.
I know that there are extenders that for 23 mags, I have several, but I
plan to use high capacity 28 round mags with this gun, so I do not need extra bullets in the mags,
just a place to put my pinky finger (no wise cracks please) –
So, dose anyone know where to find one that will fit this gun ?
I picked up a kel-tec sub 2000 in august 2011, right out of box this was very accurate,no adjustments needed, 4-6 at 75 , very light and compact. 300 rounds with no problems. fits in the door pocket of my truck ! Very happy with this gun . Only thing is seems like it would get worn at folding piont and have issues in long distant future… very fun gun though!!
Had one of these in .40 a few years back and only sold it because I wouldn’t own a glock to have magazine interchangeability. Now have one on order in 9mm to use the same mags as my Sig 226 and would buy one in .40 again if they made it to use Sig magazines as well. Quick to deploy, lightweight to carry, accurate for what it is and fills the bill for an IDPA carbine. Mine never glitched no matter what ammo I fed it and shot into one hole at reasonable ranges if I did my part. These are a great buy for the price and plain old fun to shoot.
I held one before and never got to shoot it, but can say from holding it that it seemed very solid. I would definitely be interested in one if I had the money (or a stimulus check!)
My wife has an older (and superior in every way, IMHO, except it cost twioce as much!) SUB-9 that uses S&W mags (her pistol of choice) and I have an early SUB-2000 9mm that uses Glock magazines, both bought new. We have had these for years and countless rounds downrange and they have been great, no issues at all. While I can reservedly agree with the above sentiment “if I want a rifle I’ll take a rifle,” I also appreciate that the SUBs can fold and stow, ready to unfold and use in seconds, in spaces that no other non-NFA long gun can fit without dissassembly. That fold/stow/go niche is where the SUBs really shine over most other rifles and pistol caliber carbines alike. While I prefer a 9mm AR (and have a couple) for most PCC applications, the SUB fills a specific role for me when I am traveling and I am very glad to have it with me when I can’t practically have a “real rifle” with me. It may “only” be pistol caliber, but the stock, longer bbl, and longer sight radius allow it (and me) to be accurate at ranges well beyond most handguns. I carry a 9mm Glock daily (using the same mags and ammo), so it makes a VERY sensible truck, trunk, or suitcase gun for me when I don’t have a centerfire rifle with me… and, heck, maybe even when I do.
The SBR angle is something I hadn’t thought of and it is an interesting angle on it. For a shoulder stocked firearm this is extremely short, and it is as solid as a rifle. I personally would never carry a 9mm AR. If I’m carrying an AR it is .223.
I have the Kel-Tek 2K in 9mm. I have not fired more than a couple of hundred rounds through it but what was fired was done flawlessly. I find with any weapon that has a different than normal design, one should practice with it and find the means to operate it that suits you. A good example is what Bill S. wrote about operating the charging handle with the weak hand. I surely enjoy shooting it, though I don’t get the chance too often. I think it is a good weapon and the staff at Kel-Tec seem to be doing an excellant jod of customer service.
My teenage boys were popping 2-liter water filled soda bottles swinging on a rope at 20 yds. the first time they held this thing. I went out and got another one. A briefcase will hold both rifles and a bunch of mags. Very underrated firearm.
what ‘moderation’?
As far as ‘dumping’ on something/someone, it’s never cool, ok kirk?
My S2000/9mm was rotten, until I took the time to properly set it up, as any new piece s/b. Now keeps within 4-5 @50 & abt 6-7 @100. I’m not overly long-armed but am going to order-up the extension since, as it comes,it is uncomfortably short (wish it were adjustable). Never had a ‘hang’ or ‘miss’, except with cheaper steel-cased (I think Russian) rounds, and the same goes for my G95 with the same ammo.
My ‘save my ass’ P32 @the ankle was a sacrifice on calibre but is so light it carries like a heavy sock & I don’t know of anything so flat & small- one more affordable, well designed unit from KelTec.
CDNN handles both of them,but you may have a bit of a wait- leave a name/tel.# & they’ll get back when it comes in. Glock 35 rnd mag.s fit/work a-1, as I found-out.
Geat column-keep up the good work.
I have about 700 rounds downrange on this weapon. Not a single hiccup. Seems to eat whatever I feed it. Stick with the brass casings tho.
Re: the awkwardness of the charging handle. If you are using your trigger finger hand to charge the rifle IMO you are using the wrong technique. Try this:
Leaving your hand on the pistol grip, turn the rifle slightly so the front sight is at about 10 O’clock. Two O’clock for lefties.
Then take your off hand and reach OVER the stock tube and curl your index finger against the operating handle on the bolt keeping a loose grip on the tube. Then instead of pulling back on the bolt, PUSH FORWARD on the pistol grip. Try this a couple of times and you will feel how much smoother the charging motion is. Much faster and easier to control the direction the muzzle is pointed while racking the bolt as well.
This gun is not a substitute for an AR-15. However the Sub 2000 has many advantages over the AR-15 in many street situations. Enough that most LEOs with AR-15s would be better served with a sub 2000 instead. Sometimes less is more. Consider these points:
Faster deployment. Folded it fits easily within reach in the unit, instead of in the trunk.
Can not be accidentally fired when folded.
Sharing the same mags as your sidearm, you can have a lot more rounds quickly available to put on target.
Light weight, low recoil, and short overall length mean very fast handling that is easy to keep on target. Easy to handle with one hand so your other hand is available to open doors, etc.
Easy to deliver accurate shots at practical distances that most tactical firefights occur in. Less potential for over penetration issues.
Cost. You can deploy three sub 2000s for the cost of one AR-15 and ongoing costs of ammunition to shoot at the range is less.
Guaranteed for life and Kel-Tec customer service is very helpful.
Trust my life to the Sub 2000? Absolutely. Confidently. Spend some time with one and I think you will too.
THANK YOU MY FRIEND FOR GIVING SOME HELP TO AN OLD MAN WITH OLD WEAK HANDS..
Kirk Hesington should have either calmed down and adjusted the sight on his gun or sent it in for repair cause something is wrong. There is either a loose nut behind the bolt or the gun itself is defective and should be returned to Kel-Tec.
I have the older Kel-Tec Sub-9 which I bought as a package at a gun show along with 4 – 30 round and 4 – 15 round magazines, a S&W Model 59 and a hard case. The previious owner had tried to take the Sub-9 apart incorrectly and galled the magazine so I got the whole package cheap. I sent it back to Kel-Tec, they replaced the reciever, polished the fed ramp and replaced the forearm which had some scratches in it at no cost. A+ customer service at Kel-Tec with a quick turnaround, I had my gun back in under 3 weeks.
Open sights at 50 yards is a softball sized 5 to 6″ group. Flip on the Streamlight TLR-2s Light/Laser I installed, you get the same results at 75 yards and a 8″ sized group at 100 yards. Sandbag it and the groups shrink by a couple inches; excellent for a short barreled 9MM carbine shot by an old fat guy with glasses 🙂
oh, one more thing i forgot to ad… maybe one of the more impeccably inclined people out there could help me out….
is the sub-2000 rated for +p???
given the affordability and affiliations of kel-tec, i wouldn’t fancy the notion,
or press my proverbial luck.
any help would be of great assistance, and help humble this ignorant soul.
thanks,
Craig.
All modern firearms are rated for +p. They don’t need to say it.
Actually, this is incorrect according to Kel-Tec themselves and their head engineer and owner – George K. You can use it but not regularly unless you expect above normal wear on the firearm. I use standard NATO rounds in mine along with Winchester Ranger Bonded (aka PDX1) and according to an internal email I received from Kel-Tec, they do not recommend long term use of 9mm P+ ammo including NATO rounds which are slightly above SAAMI pressures. Here’s the email below
From: T**** * [mailto:t*****@kel-tec-cnc.com]
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 6:56 AM
To: Brian Tate
Subject: RE: Questions for Sub 2000 9mm and Ammo Usage
Dear Mr. Tate,
As you read it is cautioned that aluminum cased and +P and higher pressure ammunition not be used in the Sub Series Rifles. It is due to these types of ammunition, when fired in the Sub-Series Rifles, could result in personal injury as well as unwarranted damage to the firearm.
***** *
Customer Service Advisor
P: 321-631-****
F: 321-631-1169
t*****@kel-tec-cnc.com
http://www.keltecweapons.com
From: Brian Tate [mailto:b****@****.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 4:39 PM
To: t*****@kel-tec-cnc.com
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Questions for Sub 2000 9mm and Ammo Usage
Importance: High
Hello T**** and Kel-Tec Staff,
I have a question about the ammunition types available for the Sub 2000. I have a team building exercise next Wednesday and I plan on taking my 9mm Sub 2000 to the exercise along with my Glock 17C. I recently read a document attached to my receipt that seemed to severely limit the abilities of this firearm.
As most of you know, 9mm ammo that is issued from Lake City and Olin is always 124gr NATO. This means that these rounds will always be +P. It seems very silly that the Sub 2000 can only handle SAAMI consumer grade training ammo at 115gr and 147gr but otherwise be useless to NATO and Ranger rounds that are issued to defense and law enforcement.
Bought my 9mm about a year ago new for about $320. What a bargain….so much fun for so little. Shoot it a lot at my indoor 25 yard range. Hand held without the stock extention takes a little getting used to but the accuracy goes well beyond what you might expect with those pastic sights. The position of the bolt makes the cocking a little difficult but the gun is just plain fun to shoot and very accurate. Folds and fits into a briefcase with ease.
i’ve owed a few kel-tecs, and have nothing but praise for them.
very innovative products to say the least.
definitely cannot wait to get a hold of one of these sub-2000s.
on another note, that poor zombie pizza-delivery guy….
what’ll happen to his newly widowd zombie wife? and/or zombie child(s)
i could understand zombies have gardened a bad reputation,
but it seems like he was on-the-level, trying to make an honest dollar with a honest living.
a victim of an unfortunately paranoid, vindictive society.
Got mine about a year ago, very fun and easy to shoot. Only had about 100 rnds thru it at 25 yards but very accurate at that. It is what it’s designed for: a lightweight, compact, folding carbine. Got it in a laptop bag, easy to carry. It’s not designed to be a battle rifle but it’s great at what it’s supposed to be. It’s got no recoil and no flash and blast. Only issue I have is my arms are long and it’s tight to get to my shoulder but that’s not a fault of their design but my fit. Kel-tec has a stock extender I’ll get to help fit me better. It’s great that they made it fit other pistol mags and not another proprietary fit. Kel-tec has made some pretty ingenious designs and I plan on getting some more.
The only problem I have with the Sub 2000 is trying to find one for sale. KelTec must not be manufacturing these in large numbers.
I bought the Sub-2000 used 2 years ago. I took it to the factory in Cocoa Fl. to have it checked out( I live near it ).The tech asked me to leave it with him and to come back in about a half hour. When I went back he said that it was an older Sub- 2000 and I was smart to bring it in before I fired it. He then proceeded to rattle off all of the things that they upgraded with NEW parts, from stock to barrel the gun was now brand new. The best part was that Kel-Tec would not take any money for doing the upgrades. Yes, I still shoot the Sub-2000 on regular basis and love it. Would I buy a Kel-Tec again? YES I WILL and YES I HAVE, all thanks to the customer service and the reliable products they produce.
What type of pistol magazine does the .40 SU-2000 also use as a magazine?
The Glock .40 and Beretta 96 I think.
mine has the glock 22.
My son an I purchased a Sub 2000 in the 9mm he already has a Glock 17. This is a great gun an so much fun to shoot. We put a 33 round clip in and see who can shoot the number out of a 5″ target using the least number of shots. It is accurate and does not climb on you. If you hold it steady it will hit the mark. We are waiting on the second one to come in they are hard to get. My daughter even loves to shoot this gun. I suggest everyone hold off on buying one at least until I get a second one and maybe a third since my daughter has started shooting it.
I have the 9mm SU-2000. Accuracy is very good. Shooting with “ears” on at the range requires my careful positioning but outside, “ears” off my SU-2000 has a very natural feel. I can’t find 20 or 30 round mags S&W 59 mags but have a few 17s. Were it legal I would chop the barrel to 12 inches. I pair it with a Browning HP and a S&W 640 snub in 9 mm.
Can we get these in California? prob not!!
I don’t see why not if you get the ten round mag. Our test gun came with a ten rounder.
They can be bought in California after the addition of a bullet button and a stock extension. The stock extension is available from Kel-tec and increases the lop by 1″, and overall length unfolded to 27″, but does not affect folded length. The bullet button means you have to use a tool or the tip of a bullet to drop the magazine.
I am going to look at one of these just for the fun of it. Looks like something that might be good for the camp.
At a price of $370 at my LGS, this gun seems like a great buy. After reading this article, I decided I’m gonna go buy one of these this week. I have been looking for a pistol caliber carbine for plinking purposes and I had all but forgotten about the KelTec Sub2000. I was looking at the CX4 Storm from Beretta, but that’s a little pricey and the MP5 is out of the question due to price. I have owned a couple of kel-tec pistols and never had a problem with any of them, except my pf9 was jamming with Federal JHP ammo I was using. Kel Tec took care of the problem and had my gun back to me within 2 weeks. Their customer service was so good that I dont have a problem spending money on a kel tec product because I know they will fix it.
Look forward to shooting this gun! I will give a range report (if my old brain can remember to do so) when I get some time with it. Cheers, and thanks for these cool articles.
Great idea, just wish it came in .45 ACP.
I purchased a sub 2000 in 9MM (S&W 59 series mags) used, and LOVE IT. I totally disagree with the above comme nt that it would get you killed. Mine functions flawlessly when feed any ammo and through any magazine 15 or 30 round variety with the exception of a couple of aftermarkey mags woith a wide “tactical” base. The base will not allow the mag to be fully inserted. At ranges from 15 – 40 yards I can consistantly make a soda can dance all day long, but hey, Keltec doesn’t claim it to be a target model! Center mass hits at those ranges would be the norm anyway. I am extremely pleased with my handy little gun and would recommend to anyone looking for a compact light weight carbine. Feels like a Daisey!!!!!!
I owned a Kel Tec in Glock 9 mm. It was fun. I added every accessory to it. I had a small breifcase with 6 30 Round magazines pouches. But I found it was not 100% reliable all the time. Other than as a toy I would not trust it for anything serious. If I need a small package of fire power, that is what a pistol is for. If I need a rifle, I pack a real rifle. If I need a small rifle I use a carbine with a folding stock like a sig 556. If I need something cheap and fun to shoot I use a semi-auto.22.
I sold mine because it didn’t really fill any need and didn’t do anything particluariy better than a real gun. Think about it. Pull your folding rifle out of your bag unfold it, pull the bolt back and use it but it isn’t 100% reliable but you do get maybe slightly more velocity because of the longer barrel. or pull your 100% reliable glock or sig out of your bag and you can begin shooting immedialty (no folding or cocking etc). Which makes more sense? I really like the novelty of the sub-2000 but it just wasn’t practical for me.
I own one and have come to the complete opposite conclusion. My rifle has never jammed and I trust it implicitly.
As to the folding stock rifle issue I suspect most shooter do not need the power or the liability that comes with the 223 round or the 7.62X39 round. By liability I mean muzzle blast,muzzle flash and risk of over penetration. I have fired a 20 inch M16 at night and with out only one ear plug. Even with the flash suppressor in place it lit up the dark. Muzzle blast? I had constant ringing in my ears for weeks. When I consider my likely needs for a long gun I am hard pressed to ever develop a scenario where I would need to or could justify a shot in excess of 50 yards. Think about and measure the longest shot you are likely to take. The Kel-Tec folds into a more compact space than any Ar-15 or even my AMD 65 clone. This compactness means that it is easier to store at home and easier to transport and more likely to be available when something wicked this way comes. Also the compactness means it is much easier to deploy in my average sized home then a shotgun or at type rifle. Need to turn on a wall mounted light and still keep the weapon at the ready? it is easy to do with the Kel-Tec. I suspect weapon retention (i.e. an attempted gun grab from behind a door or from around a corner) is easier with a shorter rifle. For these reasons and others I would have to say that the Kel-Tec is one of the most practical guns on the market
I would have to agree with you here. It looks like a fun TOY, but in a crunch I wouldn’t want to have to fumble around with it. Most of the time, if you need to protect your self, you have to do so with in a few feet. So if you are sitting in your car/truck and have to pull it out, you would have to unfold it. In that case, the bad guy is already on top of you. If you have a pistol, you can be shooting with in 2 seconds or less depending on where you have it stored. I personally shoulder carry so I would be willing to say less then 2 for me.
As for home defense, any gun is better then nothing. But I think this would still be too dangerous. The higher velocity of the 2k could easily go through walls and kill some one on the other side. For home defense you have to go with a shotgun. Mine is the 930 Special purpose loaded with the first two shells being 00 and the rest slugs. That way I can get their attention and as they are ducking I’ll have the time to take aim and hit them with the BIG DADDY!
Tex,
Do you realize you absolutely contradict yourself. You speak about not using the 2k as the velocity would clearly penetrate walls and your next sentence is “pulling out the big daddy” with OO buck and slugs…are you crazy, talking about over penetration. You won’t only be re-plastering your home but your neighbors as well. Maybe you should just do the coroner a favor and keep some extra body bags on-hand for your neighbors as well. If you want the best home defense tool, get yourself a steel door, great locks and some good lighting. If you want home “offense” them buy yourself a mini-gun and forget pump, bolt or semi-automatic configurations all together.
How do I know this is good advice, someone attempted to kick our door in when I was young, but my dad, wasn’t cheap and put quality doors, locks on our home. We could hear them kicking the door and by the time my time my dad got his pistol out they had already, got tired and moved on to another location.
As for the sub-2000, I own one…well I own many firearms, would I keep it at the bed side? No, as I keep a FN 5.7 with light and laser and two other 9’s locked in box at the ready. But my reason for not keeping it at the ready is different, I have a 4 yr old and cannot leave a loaded weapon, leaning against my bed.
I’ve read lots of other comments, about not practical as it folds, are you kidding me. First of it folds so you can pack it in a bag for camping and transportation. I’m sure if you were camping or in your home you would have already deployed it, function tested it and ensured it was ready if needed. I’m also 100% certain that any person here if allowed by law would already be carrying a pistol if they were in their car, home, place of business, so the sub-2000 doesn’t replace any weapon it just adds to what you would all ready be carrying. It’s no different than a cowboy of the past carrying a revolver and then having a lever-action rifle on his horse.
M.
@Tex – For home defense you have to go with a shotgun? Just stop talking now. You clearly don’t know your ass from a hole in the ground. I hope like hell people don’t come to your for advice on such matters.
I don’t have a keltec but I do own a Marlin camp9 with a plastic stock that breaks in the middle and a small Tru Glo sight and at a hundred yards I sure wouldn’t want anyone shooting at me with it. It will average 5 to 6″ groups at a 100yds with good factory 124 and 147gr ammo. Really impressed me so I would think the Keltec would do the same or even better. Mine has the Choate Camp9 folding stock and can be used with S&W 5906 style of magazines up to 30rds.
I also have 2 Marlin Camp 9’s. Best 100 yd, 3 shot group with 124 gr. Remington Golden Sabres and a 4 power scope and gun in original stock is 1.25 inches from a bench. I haven’t accuracy tested the other one in a folding stock.
FUN GUN!!!!!!!!!!! I own three, S&W, Glock and the Berretta in 9mm. Adjust front sight and you should be set!
The results on the zombie pizza-deliveryman are ridiculous. Everyone knows zombies only die from shots to the head!
Excellent point.
Gunshots to the chest, no they will not die, but with swords they will. XD
I own the older Sub-9 and Sub-40 of Kel-tec, both work great when kept clean. I had the same problem as Kirk H. until I adjusted the front sights. Both weapons now shoot consistent head shots at 25 yards with open sights. I would not have any problem using either weapon in a rapid deployment situation. Now all kel-tec needs to come out with is the 45acp and 22 magnum version. Thanks
@ Kirk,
My experience has been stellar with this weapon. It’s not a tack driver… (but then nor am I) but at 25 yards my son and I have no problem scoring zombie head shots all day long. I’ve fed it a variety of ammo and never had a single failure of any kind.
It’s too bad your experience wasn’t good, but mine has been the opposite… reliable, accurate and fun.
I disagree with the above comment. I too purchased a Sub2000 back in ’03, although in 9mm. Mine is a very good shooter and quite accurate. I can hit 6-8 targets off-hand out to 100 yards with no problem. Off course 9mm at 100 yards wouldn’t be my first choice for self defense, but at 50 yards it would be a far better bet than a pistol. Saying this weapon would get you killed is utter nonsense. Either the above mentioned rifle was defective and needed a trip back to Kel-Tec, or the shooter just couldn’t get the hang of the rifle. It is different when trying to get a sight picture and some people, especially larger people, say that can’t easily shoulder it and get down on the sights. It’s no battle rifle to be sure, but as a trunk gun or something light and compact for a backpacking trip, you’d be hard pressed to beat this rifle.
I purchased a new Sub-2000 at a gun show in FL back in 2002-2003. As I owned a couple of pistols in .40 cal, I opted my S-2000 to have the Glock 23 mags. As I shot regularly at the state-owned outdoor range in Ormond Bch, I found this rifle to be the most innacurate rifle I have ever placed my hands on……it was so bad that I was in disbelief. Sand-bagged at 25 yds, I could not even get a rnd in the outer rings of the target. It was embarrasing. I got rid of the rifle not long after that at a fraction of what I paid for it. Fortunately, it was inexpensive to start with. But this weapon would get you killed if you were depending on it in a self-defense situation.
I would disagree with your accessment of the Sub-2000 accuracy. It suggests you either need an eye exam, are a weak shooter, or you failed to make the necessary sight adjustments to the weapon. I’ve found the Sub 2000 using only the factory sights to be accurate enough to realize 4″ groupings at 50 yards and 2″ groupings at 20 yards using a sand bag.
I took my 75 pound 10 year old to the range about 2 weeks ago. I let him shoot my sub 2000 .40 sw at a zombie target. he never missed and that was free hand. I don’t know what the problem was with the gun you had. But for everyone else i will say this is a great home defense weapon and easy to teach your family how to use. it is so light it is easy for all to handle.
KIRK,PLEASE GO AWAY. YOU JUST CANT SHOOT. WE ALL CAN READ BETWEEN THE LINES. I OWN A SUB2K GLOCK 17 MAG. I CANT MISS WITH THIS THING.GET A LASER OR SOMETHING.
your talking about a sub 9?if a sub 2000 you should`ve sent it back!these are amazingly accuate carbines!
i owen a sub 2000 that take berettia mag and it is a great shooting gun i killed a nice buck with it from 75 yards out with a 115 gran hollow point and 25 yards away hell i could hit the target blindfolded u must be like ray charles because my sub 2000 i would take anything for it now my 11 year old son can tear the bullseye out from 25 to 40 yards with it.
Out of the first three shots from my .40S&W Sub-2K, 2 went through the same hole and the third was about an inch away. Love this thing. What a concept. Folds up tiny, weighs only 4 pounds, uses Glock mags that I already have. It’s a winner.
Excellent review. I own one of these and love it. What you are calling the tactical version is a rail set sold separately by Kel-Tec for around $100. It replaces the fore grips.
Thanks I’ll fix it.