The Mosin-Nagant is the cheapest option you can buy for real, shoot through just about anything firepower. At $75-$250, they are simple and reliable, and the ammo is really cheap right now.
By Paul Helinski
“This is my rifle. There are many like it but this one is mine.” Do you remember that line from the movie Full Metal Jacket? The movie was lame but the point of that line should ring true for anyone who considers long term survival against all odds. Many gun writers have said this over the years, but something that many new shooters do not know is that there is no such thing as a powerful handgun. Even the whopping .44 Magnum pales in comparison to even a light rifle cartridge like the AK-47 round. In the game of survival, you have to at some point accept that fact that force will eventually meet force. You may be armed, but two weeks into any major disaster, everyone still standing will also be armed, and they won’t be that afraid of your .45ACP Taurus semi-auto pistols. Pop, pop, pop won’t be the sound that people fear. But a thundering BOOOM, coupled with their available cover being either seriously rocked or completely shot through, will put anyone and everyone on notice that the force they face is not worth facing, and it may be better to move on. A rifle is firepower like a handgun can never be, but the problem with rifles is that they are expensive to own and expensive to shoot. There is however one lowest common denominator with rifles, and for as little as $100, if all you own is a pistol, I strongly suggest that you go out and buy one of these powerhouse rifles today.
This “Silver Bear” brand is generally about $10 a box and is basically just military overrun packaged for the American market.
No, you can’t get an AR-15 for $100. In fact you can’t one for $500 that works reliably. Likewise the venerable AK-47, and even the lowly SKS, which fires the same cartridge as the AK-47. Even a grease-covered 10-shot SKS hovers in the $300 range these days. To old time gun nuts, these prices are absurd. ARs have always been higher priced, but before the Clinton semi-auto ban you could get a Chinese AK-47 out of the Shotgun News for $239. SKS’s were $99. If the gun banners have accomplished anything in the last 20 years, it has been to raise the price of owning all firearms, but especially guns that dramatically increase your personal firepower.
It won’t be any surprise to all of our certified gun nut readers that the gun I am suggesting is the Mosin-Nagant. It is a bolt action five-shot battle rifle that dates back to 1891 and that was used as a main infantry rifle by Russian and other Eastern bloc forces for both WWI and WWII. If you care about the history of the gun, check out the Wikipedia page. For our purposes, we are talking about affordable firepower, and believe it or not, these old warhorses are still extremely reliable and relevant to modern urban self-defense. You can pick up a Mosin for anywhere between $75 and $250, depending on condition and venue. Online, most Mosins you’ll find are in fairly new and unissued condition, and they run $175 and up. At that price, the gun is still more firepower than you will find anywhere else at that sum, but even that is too high a budget for a lot of people. GO TO THE GUN SHOWS! It is not uncommon to still find private sellers selling rough but working rifles in the $75-$100 range.
Most Mosins will be pretty close to on target at 50 yards. This rifle had no adjustment and was close to dead on.
Why do an article on such a simple subject as the Mosin-Nagant in a prepper series? This after all GunsAmerica, and we are obviously a gun buying and selling website, in addition to this wonderful editorial. You’d think we are preaching to the choir here right? Not necessarily. Since 2008, a ton of new shooters have come into the gun world, and to some degree they have taken it over. That is why you won’t see a print magazine without a black gun on the cover, and why handguns have dominated the new products for many years now. I have had “the rifle conversation” with dozens over people over the years, and almost universally, there are two issues that people have with expanding their shooting horizons.
- Rifles are too expensive, and expensive to shoot. I agree, and this is why I opened the article with the issue of cost. Right now you may feel like ammo is still hard to get, but the Mosin-Nagant caliber, 7.62x54R, is plentiful and cheap. As you can see in the pictures, I used Silver Bear ammo, which is really just Russian military production boxed for the American commercial market. At about $10 a box, the Mosin-Nagant is not much more expensive to shoot than some pistol calibers. That isn’t to say that you need to shoot this rifle a lot to be able to count on it. I have never met a Mosin that didn’t work, and once you figure out where your rifle’s point of impact is at 50 or 100 yards, you never really have to shoot it again. It may be blasphemy to say this in most shooting circles, but I would venture to say that if you buy a Mosin from a trusted seller, either someone online with a lot of sales, or a friend, or a decent gunshop, YOU DON’T EVEN HAVE TO SHOOT THE RIFLE TO BE ABLE TO DEPEND ON IT. In my experience with dozens of Mosins, your point of impact will be about a foot high at 100 yards, and it will rarely be more than 6” left or right from center. This is a HUGE issue for many people who live in urban environments with only an indoor range to shoot at. My advice is JUST GO BUY A MOSIN and 200 rounds and don’t worry about shooting it for now if you don’t have a proper range.
- I don’t have a safe for it and my wife/husband doesn’t want it in the house unlocked.
At 100 yards the same rifle prints about 10-12” high and the group is just under 3” wide. This is pretty normal for most Mosins.
The merits or faults of locking up all of your guns is beyond this discussion, but none of us want a gun that we own to be stolen and end up on the street. That is the beauty of bolt rifles. You can lock up the bolt with your handgun and if it is stolen, all they have is a very intricate club. Most Mosin bolts are hand fit to the action, individually, so even if a thief knew what they had and found a bolt online, it would still have to be fitted by a gunsmith, a task which is as expensive as the full cost of the gun.
Here is where I have to interject what I consider to be an important point, and that is the subject of “upgrading” the Mosin-Nagant. My opinion is don’t waste your money. A Savage Axis and Ruger American are going to be head and shoulders better rifles than any sporterized Mosin, for probably less money than you will spend on a replacement stock and trigger alone. Is a Mosin a great gun nerd project to see how cool you can make it? Yes, of course, but that is for fun, not for survival. The bottom line is, buy as much rifle as you can afford to own, including ammo. If your starter rifle is a Mosin, sell it to buy the next gun up. Don’t upgrade it. At its heart, a Mosin-Nagant is the most painfully simple infantry rifle you can buy, and for cheap. Even though there are Mosin sniper rifles (which we’ll be reviewing here soon), the gun was never really made for precision. This is a rifle that was created to be placed into the hands of conscripts with little or no training, and that is all it will ever be.
Few Mosins are truly collectible, and any rifle without matching serial numbers should be considered not rare and not collectible. There are round receivers, hex receivers, and markings from several different arsenals throughout the Eastern bloc and Finland.
For our dedicated GUN NUT readers, this is also why I strongly advocate each of you buying a minimum of five Mosins for your gun safe, along with 1,000 rounds of ammo. “Come the day,” you may need to arm a team of friends to protect your neighborhood or a hideaway bugout location. If you can afford a rack of ARs or AKs, great. But at $1,000 each, it cuts into your gun budget quite a bit. Most of us go to gun shows a lot, and of course troll GunsAmerica daily, and $100 Mosins pop up all the time. Guns will always go up in value, so they are a sound investment, and there is nothing like being able to arm 5 to 20 of your neighbors with a gun that you can’t screw up, that has no safety to remember to flip off, and that goes boom every time no matter how ugly it may be.
Ballistically, a Mosin is roughly the same power as a 30-06. Standard military ball ammo will penetrate all soft body armor, and even at 200 yards will stop an automobile engine. A 7.62x54R has roughly twice the energy at 500 yards that a 44 Magnum has at the muzzle. This is a serious cartridge for serious self defense. Is a Mosin for fighting government storm troopers? No. Your rate of fire is very slow and against multiple targets with their own heavy firepower, you will have no chance against an organized attack. If you can afford a semi-auto battle rifle, even an SKS, don’t bother with a Mosin. But if all you have right now is a Kel-Tec pistol, or a Ruger LCP, Smith & Wesson Bodygaurd, Springfield XD-S, etc., great, at least you are armed with a reliable gun, but you really should invest in a Mosin and some ammo just in case your force should be met with force.
The sights are all something like this, but can also look very different and none are distinctive or better or worse.
The performance of a Mosin-Nagant is nothing to write home about. I’ve seen people claim that they got sub-MOA with careful handloads and a replacement stock that free floats the barrel, but in general most Mosins are 3 MOA rifles. This means that, with careful, rested shooting, you will be able to keep most shots within a 3” circle at 100 yards using steel cased Russian ammo. Your biggest challenge will be with matching point of impact with point of aim. The front sight of a Mosin is in a dovetail, and has to be “drifted” to adjust point of impact. If you search Ebay for “Mosin front sight tool,” you will find that several people are selling variations of the same idea for $20-$25. If you are a gun nut buying an arsenal of Mosins, it is a good investment.
Reliability is something you can usually take for granted in a Mosin-Nagant. There a few caveats though. Make sure you buy the gun from either someone who has personally shot it or a reliable gunshop that has purchased the gun through normal distribution. Generally, if the serial number that is scratched into the bolt matches the receiver, that bolt has been tested to fire in the gun. If they don’t match, it still may be and probably is fine, but you should try to shoot the gun before you rely on it. Once you shoot the gun, clean it, because a lot of Mosin ammo has corrosive primers. Then Rem-Oil spray it, and she’s good to go, for the foreseeable future. I have never seen a Mosin break down once you know it runs.
This is the M44 with the bayonet folded.
If there is one consistent problem to be aware of that I have seen, it is with the M44 variation. This is the one you see here in the pictures that includes a folding bayonet. They are extremely handy and great-feeling guns, but the chambers are tight on many of them. The only time this matters in my experience is with hot machinegun ammo. I have some ammo from Romania with silver tips that always sticks in my M44, so badly that I have to use a mallet to open the action. This Silver Bear ammo works fine in them though.
Here in gun nut central, it may seem redundant to make sure that everyone is properly armed, should doomsday rear its ugly head. But here is South Florida, you would be amazed at how many young people I see at the indoor ranges who only own that one handgun. I’ve asked many of them if they also own a rifle, and overwhelmingly they have never considered it an option, because they don’t feel like they have a place to shoot, plus the cost and security concerns I explained above. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A POWERFUL HANDGUN. A 9mm, shot at a sharp angle to a sheetrock wall, will most often skitter down the wall rather than just shoot through it. A Mosin will shoot through two walls and keep going. Pop, pop, pop is great if you have nothing else and can afford nothing else, but as we get closer to the inevitable collapse of life as we know it, a little more firepower is a decision you should make today. Don’t wait for the next 2nd Amendment crisis, which is coming as sure as the sun rises in the morning. Nagants and the Russian ammo is really cheap right now. Arm yourself with a rifle.
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- To remove the bolt on a Mosin you just hold the trigger back and it comes right out.
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- You can then just lock the bolt in your handgun safe, or hide it somewhere in the house, or bury it in the backyard, and the rifle is no more dangerous than a baseball bat.
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- The only exception may be the M44, which is a shorter version of the same gun with a bayonet. Extended the M44 is slightly longer than the standard 91/30.
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- Both guns next to each other. The top is the M44 and the bottom is the 91/30. There is also a short Mosin without a bayonet.
Looking for an AR 10 308
Coming in a bit late, but I’ll add this anyway…
That sticky bolt issue with the Mosin M44? Once you make sure you’ve cleaned all the bolt and chamber, rub down the bolt with a little molle paste. Yeah, that stuff the auto engine guys use to lube up pistons in engines. Rub it down, let it set for an hour or so (preferably under sunshine in warm weather), then rub it off with a dry, clean cloth. Sticky bolt problem gone.
SHTF? Here’s what’s gonna’ happen: The Bad Guys are gonna slip into town in the middle of the night…take over the electric generating capacity, the local water supply, and cordon off all grocery stores and gas stations. Then issue and edict that ALL citizens give up their firearms. After about 4 days with no water, or food your family screaming that they are hungry, thirsty, and cold (or hot) you will get in line to give up your guns and get your ration card. Civilians on the street after curfew will be shot (not arrested). The NATO troops with blue arm bands won’t even speak English. What do you think Jade Helm is all about? Roving, heavily armed patrols with nite vision and helicopters and drones will rapidly hunt down insurgents. There will be no wandering gangs. You will stand in their line to get rationed food and water, and wipe your ass in the back yard on old newspapers, because the sewer treatment plant is shut down, and no water to flush the toilet. Enjoy life now…’cuz there ain’t no tomorrow. The plan is that 72% of the population will be in mass graves within 3 years, so they don’t have to be fed and clothed, with enough left alive to run factories and essential services. Bug out bags? Living off the grid? Counter insurgency?
Good bye dreamers…this is 2016-or 2021 not 1955. ibjj
I really cringe when I hear someone talk about “stopping a car engine” with a bullet. Has anyone ever done a bit of experimenting with this concept, or is it just something someone said and it keeps getting repeated?
I take this to mean that a bullet (whichever flavor we’re talking about at the time) will hit the engine block and do so much damage — cracking the block, presumably — that the engine seizes. I suppose it’s possible, but would like to see someone try it with some old junk auto engines, with various calibers. Mythbusters could have done this easily, but I hear this is their last season.
However, that’s not my main problem with this claim. In truth, there are few calibers that WON’T stop a car engine if you don’t insist upon an instantaneous seizing of the motor. One of my greatest head-slappers when I watch some action movie is when someone is shooting at the car chasing them, and they’re always aiming at the people in the car. How stupid can you get? Your first shot (or couple of shots) should be lower, right into the car’s radiator. Once that coolant starts pouring out, the clock is ticking and that vehicle is only minutes away from being a smoking hulk at the side of the road — especially if you’re shooting a round of any power, and even more so if you hit the lower portion of that rather critical part of the engine. In addition, most bullets will tear through that radiator and keep doing further damage, such as breaking or deforming the radiator fan, or the various coolant hoses — any of which will only shorten the already very limited lifespan of that motor. Even a couple of .22 or .32 bullets thru the radiator is going to stop the car — it’ll just take a few minutes longer than a .357 or a .308.
But that’s only part of it. There are a lot of very vulnerable parts hanging on the outside of the motor itself, most of which would basically cease to work if hit by almost any significant bullet. If a .38 bullet, for instance, were to hit the battery, the carburetor, the coil, the gas line, timing chain cover, a major electrical connection, or the distributor cap, the engine is going to stop, and close to instantly. I’m couching this in terms of REAL cars I used to work on (1940s thru 1975), but I suspect the modern computerized crap-mobiles have even more vulnerable spots under the hood. And of course any bullet that penetrates the valve covers is going to cause oil to leak heavily & quickly, and the bullet also stands a fair chance of doing serious damage to the rocker arms & valve stems, maybe stopping the car almost instantly from that damage.
So that’s my problem with this car-stopping phrase we always hear. It’s like claiming a certain caliber will kill a man — well, MOST of them will, depending on where you hit him, so that claim is too fuzzy to even evaluate. I maintain that MOST bullets can probably stop a car within a few minutes, or less, so it seems to be to be an equally meaningless claim unless it’s carefully qualified. Will it shatter an engine block? Which is probably the case with a .50 cal or some of the African big-game rounds … or will it just do so much external damage that the car is unlikely to bother you much longer. If ever.
Most of us are very interested in knowing what a certain round is capable of doing, but we should all try to be more specific than just, “It’ll stop a car.”
I have a problem with 2 parts of this report.
1. ” That isn’t to say that you need to shoot this rifle a lot to be able to count on it. I have never met a Mosin that didn’t work, and once you figure out where your rifle’s point of impact is at 50 or 100 yards, you never really have to shoot it again. It may be blasphemy to say this in most shooting circles, but I would venture to say that if you buy a Mosin from a trusted seller, either someone online with a lot of sales, or a friend, or a decent gunshop, YOU DON’T EVEN HAVE TO SHOOT THE RIFLE TO BE ABLE TO DEPEND ON IT” I bought one from a big chain store. Took it out and nothing. Firing pin broken.
If you are going to count on it, always shoot it 1st.
2nd “Most Mosin bolts are hand fit to the action, individually, so even if a thief knew what they had and found a bolt online, it would still have to be fitted by a gunsmith, a task which is as expensive as the full cost of the gun. ” I have messed with 4 or 5 Mosins and m-44’s. Traded bolts back and forth with zero problems. (they all fired) The one I bought from the big chain store with the broken firing pin, I went back and we swapped the bolt with the display model with no problems. They are great rifles.
I’m not sure where to even start.
1. The bolt is not individually fitted by hand. They toss one in, check the headspace, and if it passes, it’s good. They usually pass. The bolt head is what determines headspace, and it’s separate from the bolt. The bolt body is interchangeable.
2. Who says not to shoot a gun that you may count on to save your life?
3. Tight chambers? No. Cosmoline, and bolt camming surfaces. Mosins generally have generous chambers.
4. The average Mosin is better than 3moa. 147 grain surplus ammo, however, specs at 2-4moa.
5. You do not need a new stock to make the Mosin shoot well. Just bed the wooden stock, or shim the thing. Finnish M39 Mosins had to shoot 1.3moa or better, and they were general issue rifles. Shims were used on the action and barrels to make them perform.
6. Trigger work is not hard to do. Don’t shim the sear. Check out the pictures online.
7. Sights are not expensive to have modified.
8. The Mosin has a safety.
9. All Mosins have been issued. Most have been refurbished. A box with a diagonal line through it on the buttstock indicates a refurb.
10. Buy a Mosin. Dump $30 into it. $30 is the cost to turn your Mosin into an adjustable-sighted, shim-bedded rifle that will perform much better than stock. A bit of trigger polishing will give you a very good trigger that feels a lot like a Glock’s. If you have wet/dry sanding paper laying around, it’s free. If not, fine grit can be had for another buck.
Regards,
Josh Smith
Smith-Sights LLC
I have a couple of Chinese Type 53 Mosin Nagant carbines safely buried in long term storage. After test firing the rifles and thorougly cleaning and coating them with LPS #3, I took some 4″ CPVC pipe, glued on an end cap. I threw in several anti rust outgassing capsules and put the rifle in. I included 220 rounds of ammo in each (half a canful) then nitrogen purged the tube and glued on the top cap. These capsules are buried in safe spots. Even if somebody finds a capsule, I am only out about $175.- and I sleep better knowing that come hell or high water, I am armed. My plan is to dig one up in 5 years and check it out. If its still 100% I will repackage it and rebury it, if there are any issues, I will address my long term storage method and try again.
Great article, I agree 100 percent. I own 3 and have 3 spam cans and a varying stock of handloads.
Years ago while stationed in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, I bought a 303 Lee-Enfield. A gun store there had 1000 never fired brass and 1000 bullets. Bought all of it for 250. Some how the previous owner had managed to drill and tap the case hardened receiver and mounted a 7x scope. The range of bullets available for this gun were cheap and ranged from 150g spitzer to an astounding 210g HOLLOW POINT. I have never shot an elephant, but I do know the awesome sight of a 40 lb melon exploding! I have killed 2 deer, 1 moose, one goat, and a brown bear with it. Ammo is still available, but I have 200 loaded and keep fresh powder should I need to load up a few in a hurry.
I have a 91/30. Best $100 I ever spent. Not pretty but it shoots where I aim it, has never jammed or given me a bit of trouble with almost 1,000 rounds through it. As someone above said, they couldn’t have all been put into service and I don’t think mine ever was. Mine looked to be brand new right out of the box and it came with all the goodies… oil can, cleaning rod, ammo pouches, tool. I only have the one Mosin because most of my neighbors have me outgunned anyway.
I’m with the guy who likes the .22 LR. Think about it this way; the cartridge will kill, with well-placed shots, anything up to deer-sized animals and certainly humans. Ammunition is reliable, compact and you can carry 50 LR cartridges in the same space as four 30/06 cartridges. Sure you don’t have a long range rifle but then why shoot anything at long range? 500 rounds of ammunition is all you’re likely to need unless you get into a small war. It would be nice to have a .44 magnum or a .308 with scope sight but a .22 LR rifle with iron sights will work very nicely out to 100 yards…and do just about anything you need it to do.
Consider the nature of the disaster you’re preparing for. If it, whatever you believe “it” may be, is likely to be resolved in less than a week, you don’t need special seeds, don’t need to hunt, to have solar panels or anything else. If the disaster is likely to last for a month or more, then you need a bit more than just a rifle. If the disaster will likely last many months, then everyone is in trouble and your problems will be major. Is the disaster going to be world-wide, state-wide, city-wide, or local? If local, outside help will come quickly. If Sate wide, outside help will be coming quickly. If nation-wide, will it be universal or spotty? Look at history. Countries and peoples have survived wars, pestilence, plagues, famines, natural disasters. If you aren’t killed in the first day or so, then surviving will depend more on your imagination and ingenuity than any particular stash of equipment. Certainly if there is adequate warning you can get home (or to wherever you have your stash), load up the family car and head for the retreat. But the greater probability is that the disaster will be unexpected and your chances of being at home are as good as your chances of visiting Aunt Martha in the next city. In other words, you are stuck with whatever you can regularly carry with you (in your car, on your person). Read and understand what is necessary for survival, carry a pocket knife (except when flying), have a good pair of boots, extra socks and some warm clothes and a good extra knife available at all times. If you feel comfortable thrown a .22 rifle in the trunk of your car along with 500 rounds of ammo and you’re ready for almost anythng. Just my humble opinion.
I’m with you Bill and the others that prefer 22LR. Mostly for the weight and space saved over other calibers. One thing people don’t realize is that those in power have devices that will cover wide areas of coverage and will disable any vehicles that have electronic ignitions/electronics anything. These devices have been in their position for many, many years now and I am sure they will be using them with all their other assets to do their best to disable local resistance. When thinking about a vehicle, think about one with older technology so these devices won’t have an impact on your vehicle. I have only seen mention of water in a couple of these comments. Water may by far be more important than any food supply since you can probably provide some nutrition by killing some small game animal. You wont have refrigeration so food for more than one meal at a time is not important in the early days of any conflict. Stop in a protected area, regroup, eat, replenish your fluids then keep on the move is a good game plan early on. Non-engagement is essential for most of us if we are to survive in the long term, regardless what weapons you choose to carry. Think, be smart, be safe!
Semper Fi! USMC 68-75 Vietnam 69-70-71 1st Marine Division, 3rd Marine Aphib Brigade
John, I couldn’t agree with you more. If you plan to attempt to hunker down at your home in a city, you need all the food, plenty of different weapons and ammo, with the knowledge and ability to have heat/ac, tripwires for early warning, and enough people to keep an eye on your perimeter 24/7. Your “watch” team needs to be able to stay awake, recognize threats, and know what ummediate action to take, and most importantly be able and willing to kill another human in order to neutralize the threat. There is a great deal to prepare and be ready if you plan on holding up in a residence, especially if your refuge is located in a city environment where the population is greater and more convenient to looters, thieves, and killers of where the population is sparse and the environment is less likely familiar to infilteraters. Unless, although unlikely that you won’t have some type of heads up that something may be so disasterous, the best bet is to be on the move to a location out of the city. I live in the city limits and have, water, food and weapons on hand, but there is no way I could have a fortified fortress in order to hold off attackers for any period longer than a few days. Even with bullet proof glass throughout my home, fortified doors, hundreds of gallons of water, food for a year, compost toilet system, medical supplies, explosives, various types of guns and an over abundance of ammo, solar and other generator systems for electricity, you are still vulnerable and if someone wanted in your home, they will gain access. There are many ways. So, I have established a couple of ways to travel on and off road with needed supplies, and places away from high population and prepared to live off grid for longer periods if necessary. You just have to have a plan for every plan. If you are in town and have a group of neighbors who are ready to work together and share it all no matter what, you will be better off than going it in your own home with just your immediate family. But, there has to be one trusted, knowledge leader who is not a dictator, but willing to listen to everyone and make fair decisions that are better for all. This has to be established ahead of time. Good luck.
hope you do not have to hold off to many at one time
i have a c&r. i have 10 mosin negant 91/30’s. most of the lands and grooves look new. the russians made so many that they all could have not been in service. my rifle is set up for long range shooting. i put an archangle stock on it, maybe just to get 10 rnd magazines. i altered the bolt(ati) and had the reciever drilled and tapped for a 4X12X56 ir scope. this is the only way for a normal income person to get a 1000yrd capability, 18″ steel plate target. my fire fight rifle is an ar-15 chambered for 7.62X39. this is cheap and widely available ammunition. my hand guns are glock model 36 in .45 cal and the standard military beretta with 18 rnd magazines the 91/30 is heavy as is the ammunition. i have my bug out bag and these 4 weapons. you can bury ammunition easily. get some 6 or8″ pvc pipe. glue a cap on one end, on the other, glue an adapter from glue to threads. you can stick a lot of stuff in this pipe. then when you have put in what you want, get some teflon tape, the pink tape is thicker, and thread a plug in it along with desicant. then melt wax and coat the threaded end. all you have to do is to cover it. it does not have to be 2′ deep. then my plan is to stuff meds, mre’s and what ever necessities in my 3 day assult pack as i can cary. you are looking at 90 lbs. when you have to shed, the sniper goes first. and the ammunition . stick it in a plastic and secure it as best as possible, this might be temporary. my fighting knife is a gurka. all this considered, if the government sends our military against us, we are not going to survive. you cannot fight against a force that has the ability to see you where ever you are. another problem is the militarization of our civilian police. the swat teams and others are all civilians protected by their leaders and the courts. they have a right to kill you, of course, there would be false coverups to defend them. remember throw downs? they are amatures that all need mental tests before they are allowed to be awarded their capabilities. the middle class does not realize that when the police can murder an unarmed black man and get away with it, they can do the same to them, and you. at 70 yrs old, i am not sure i can do this anymore, but i will not give up
this isn’t really a big deal but sportsman guide and other companies sell adapters where you can fire other calibers in the 303 british and 7.62R, I’ve seen the adapters for 32 auto in 303 and 308 rifles and 7.62×25 in 303 and 7.62R online at sportsmans and in shotgun news a ad from a company called adapters is listed for other calibers
“the Mosin-Nagant caliber, 7.62x54R,”
OK. I’m now officially confused. I was under the impression that the above mentioned weapon utilized 7.62x39mm ammo, like the AK47, SKS, etc. To my understanding 7.62×54 is the standard NATO round and also the .308 Winchester (which are Not exactly the same round, the .308 cal. operating at higher pressures) Perhaps it’s the ‘R’ following the numerical designation that makes the difference.
You can learn something new everyday, if you pay attention. If this isn’t a typo, it will be My daily learning experience ;~)
7.62x54R is a Russian 30-06 size round, 7.62×39 is a 30-30 size round, 7.62×51 is the 308 round fired in m14/m60 and many other rifles and mg’s, 7.62R been around for 100 years or so, 7.62×39 since ww2, 7.62×51 since the early 50’s
Rocky, The Mosin Nagant uses the 7.62x54r Which is not the same round as the 308 or 7.62×51 NATO. It is bigger as in longer than the NATO round, 54mm vs 51mm. It is also a rimmed cartridge unlike the 308 or 7.62 NATO which is a more advanced rimless type. But the Russian round is a very powerful round, similar in ballistics to the .30-06. The 7.62 NATO is a slightly cut down .30-06 which is 7.62×63
Your lame Full Metal Jacket is awsome movie about Americas greatest assets.
I think the mosin’s place in a real survival situation is better suited as trading stock. If an individual is truly preparing for the “shit to hit the fan” I would think that having a higher quality tool at hand than a stinky old mosin nagant, would be right at the top of the list. It is for me anyway. However a cheap rifle that functions, will be held in extremely high value in times of despair. Also, one must consider that 7.62×54 is not a caliber that you will likely stumble across in your everyday “hypothetical” scavenging, as it is not a common round in the United States. I do see the value of having a couple nagants in the collection but its not a cure all for your survival needs. Respect yourself and your loved ones and purchase a firearm that keeps up with the times and is capable of high speed combat engagement. Be safe friends!
Full metal jacket lame? I’ve lot interest in this article lol
I’ve had a couple of the Mosin rifles and they work ok for a budget gun.I just think the article has a certain audience in mind which is the newer gun owner crowd.Depending on what area your located in you may want to find a semi auto in a common caliber like the .223 or the 7.62×39 for a couple more bucks…
I would like to stay up with guns and gun laws .
I have a 91/30 with the octagonal receiver. It’s been dated to 1922 and is all-original, built when Itzvah and Tuzla were still czarist factories (the build is much cleaner and sharper than the later wartime, Soviet, built-in-an-under-siege-factory rifles). Beautiful rifle built in the days before laminated stocks, and it’s more pleasant to shoot than my Springfield 1903. However, I’d have to claim my rifle as a last-ditch weapon or an instrument of barter in a collapsed economy. In fact, mine would be more useful as an “elaborate club”! Took it to the 100-yard range, shot it, looked for the impact, shot it, looked at other target boards for an impact, shot it, and found a hit about 3 FEET to the right. Using the ubiquitous AK/SKS/Mosin site tool I was able to push the front site enough to determine the hold-off required to SCARE the crap out of my intended target. In other words, the barn would be safe; its sides would remain intact. No worries.
Being as I am a retired Army 1SG (infantry and cavalry), I think if I was going to arm 4 or 5 of my neighbors WTSHTF this would be the perfect rifle if my intention was to arm 4 or 5 of my LEAST-favorite neighbors, then position them as an unknowing speed bump to cover my withdrawal.
WAIT!!! WHAT AM I TALKING ABOUT??!! After 3 days of any crisis, your so-called neighbors will kill you over food! They are on their own, buddy, comfortable in their present lack of forethought and exquisite fear of everything BOOM related.
I liked the article. No one can argue that in terms of today’s weapons, the Mosin hardly compares, but it is a quality reliable rifle for the money, historically significant, and the perfect shooter/plinker. I have dozens of weapons of every flavor including a couple off Mosins, and to my mind they’ve earned the right to be in the stable with my other weapons. 440 rounds of hard hitting ammo for $80 only further confirms that IMHO. No, they likely will never be with much more than I paid for them in my life time….but I consider them to be some of my best value add purchases.
Just GOTTA knock Taurus, don’t you? You LOSE…all credibility with me, because you can’t help but let your prejudices shine through. Take a nap pork-boy.
Would the Mosin Nagant make a good hunting rifle? The gun was compared to a 30-06. What kind of game could be brought down with it? Deer? Bear? Wild boar?
With Hornady hunting rounds any game in north america. Full metal jacket Russian stuff tends to go right through most game but is nonetheless deadly with the right shot placement.
Can we please stop using the term “gun nut”? I hate when we default to the language of the “anti-gunner” and use such terms as the above or “assault rifle”, “high capacity magazine”, “cop killer ammo” etc.
As far as open carry, I think if you are going hunting it’s a good thing, if you are going to the grocery store I think concealed is better, but, that said, I think if it ever was so common that when you went in the mall there were a hundred people open carrying….. well, it would be a mighty safe place to shop!
I’m currently working on a Nagant that a guy gave me that he found at the local dump. It’s got about half the stock left and shot a four foot group at fifty yards. So far I’ve cut the barrel off about two inches and it’s down to “normal accuracy. I set the cut off muzzle over the current bore and you can see metal all around the hole. What you can’t see in that cut off piece is any rifling. Probably why it ended up at the dump. On the subject of accuracy, I’ve had two Nagant’s; one a Tula, and one Isnovsk, that shot one hole at fifty. I understand the Sako rifles from Finland are pretty much guaranteed MOA, if you can shoot
I have a mosin that i really like it shoots great and has a good patteren
I also bought a schmidt rubin 1898-11 that i like better, trigger pull and very accurate
both guns i would trust my life with….
Those SR guns are truly special, but there aren’t many around anymore.
I buy a 91/30 & a can of ammo every month. I plan to share and train when we need all the militia we can get. I am old enough to have done basic and sung the above mentioned songs. My survival is not the priority, freedom for my country is the priority. I don’t know when the shit will hit the fan, we have enemies, foreign and domestic, out the ass, and the good people will need all the firepower we can stock.
IMO, if you live less than one gas tank from urban areas, you’re likely dead. Unless, you can get further out and lay low with potable water, food, medicine and enough ordnance to kill the ones that do get out to your 20. Once the initial apocalpse subsides, there should be enough time/space to implement the plan for year 3+ with crops, animal husbandry, etc.. Survival is all about…surviving. Regarding the article, I see these rifles as good barter instruments and/or strategic cache pieces as the .45-70 with high meplat hard-cast ammo will collapse lungs out to 200 yards, even with body armor. The straight-walled cases have a long(er) reloading lifespan as well. Shoot ’em if you have ’em.
I have picked up 5 91/30s over a couple of years. One was sent back because the gun wouldn’t load bullets – very weak spring on the trigger assembly and the vendor didn’t have replacement parts so exchanged it. The worst two I bought came from a major sporting goods dealer and while they fire OK after a bit of cleaning, they’re still rough – and cost more than the first two I bought over the internet. Excellent value, quality varies from one purchase to the next, ammo is relatively cheap (make sure you get an opener if you get the sardine can packed ammo), and very good accuracy for what you pay. We picked up a scope adapter at a gun show and mounted a $100 scope to it and it’s definitely a reasonably accurate rifle, no wonder they had so many sniper kills, tons of targets and opportunities but the gun is probably better than the marksman.
What was lame about the movie? Were you in Corps during ‘Nam?
I WAS IN FACT IN NAM TWICE,’67-68,’69-’70. MOVIE WAS GREAT! USMC, 1966-1970. SEMPER-FI.
On the list of Worlds Deadliest Snipers, out of the top 100 snipers of modern history, the Mosin Nagant was used exclusively by over 90 of those 100 snipers. To put that in perspective, the top 3 deadliest snipers have a combined confirm kill count of 1,837, all using the Mosin Nagant.
Kris Kyle, the nearest American, ranks 106 on that list with 160 confirmed kills.
Infact, the Mosin Nagant has more confirmed sniper kills than all other snipers using different weapon systems put together.
Yes. The Mosin Nagant is junk. PLEASE STOP BUYING THEM!!! lol You are making the prices go up!!
Also, STOP USING THE 54r MILSURP AMMO!! lol It is corrosive and will give your grandma cancer!!
My Mosins (total cost involved) cost less, and keep up with bull barrel .308 Rem 700’s accuracy.
But admittedly you cant buy them that way off the shelf.
All in all, this was a great and informative article.
Got my first Mosin at 16 (am 74 now) cost $14, deliver by FED-EX, got 440 rounds for slightly more than the rifle cost. Took it out too the farm, cleaned the grease out, scraped the wood using a piece of glass. Good looking rife, similar to a Mauser. Tied it to a tree to see if it blew up, it didn’t, got 20 rounds of hunting ammo, hunted and plinked with it for years. Traded it for a pump action, takedown Remington 22. Got a lot of pleasure, sore shoulder and all from this rifle. I did shorten the stock a bit, but the scraped and oiled stock was beautiful.
Got my first Mosin at 16 (am 74 now) cost $14, deliver by FED-EX, got 440 rounds for slightly more than the rifle cost. Took it out too the farm, cleaned the grease out, scraped the wood using a piece of glass. Good looking rife, similar to a Mauser. Tied it to a tree to see if it blew up, it didn’t, got 20 rounds of hunting ammo, hunted and plinked with it for years. Traded it for a pump action, takedown Remington 22. Got a lot of pleasure, sore shoulder and all from this rifle. I did shorten the stock a bit, but the scraped and oiled stock was beautiful.
The article says no safety to worry about but be assured the Mosins do have a safety. They can be a little hard to use but a good idea if walking through the woods, climbing rocky hills, jumping streams, or climbing over fences.
With the bolt in the rifle (of course) pull the back round knob back and turn it to the left. Safety on. It is a tight spring but works. I have a 91/30, an M44, and a 38 with matching #’s. Wouldn’t part with them. I’ve had enough of them to know you can exchange the bolts from one to the other and they work fine. They say the bolts stick after firing because after years of cosmoline and other debris build up when you fire it heats up and sticks. Just what I’ve heard but I know they do stick. Also said if cleaned well enough it will stop.
There are many things for a survivalist to think of when buying any weapon.
1) Considering the worst possible scenario, there will be roaming gangs of lawless people taking everything from everyone else so they can survive.
2) The bigger the bang, the more you draw attention to yourself and your location. You really don’t want to do that given 1) above. Also, you should not be interested in engaging any human target at 200 or 300 yards. A survivalist needs to be more concerned with cover and concealment. Then, have a weapon with close range kill power that can also have a sound minimizer on it.
3) the animals you hunt for for food will be smaller so that they can be cooked more quickly, are consumed at one meal, and have minimal waste residue. We will not have fuels other than natural materials, grasses and wood, and we will not have refrigeration given 1) above. Also, if you shoot a deer and clean it the residue will attract dogs that will have become hungry and probably have reverted to a more wild nature. Most hunting can and should be done using a snare, sling shot, or bow and arrow.
4) Availability of ammunition will become an issue. Yes, you can stockpile thousands of rounds but a survivalist needs to be ready to pack-up and move when a location becomes too risky due to the lawless gangs operating in the immediate area. Your not going to start up the old SUV because that will again attract attention as you become an easily identified moving target. Lawless gangs will have road blocks established and they will stop you, take your vehicle and possessions and then they will likely kill you and your family. You will need to travel by foot and carry what you need to survive on your back in a bug-out situation. Five thousand rounds of, say, 30-06 weighs a heck-of-a-lot more than five thousand rounds of 22 rimfire.
5) The bottom line: You need to learn to live off the land leaving as little of a trace that you have been there as is possible. This will include moving out with little or no warning taking all of your belongings with you. You will avoid contact with all other human beings except those that are part of your inner circle where you have complete trust and mutual goals for survival. Doing anything else will dramatically increase your risk leading to an early demise.
Col_Retired has some VERY good points. I do a LOT of desert driving, and have learned that the three best ‘food friends’ I have are MRE’s, a 22LR (thinking about .17 of some kind) and a regular bbl 12 gauge. ALL big game will be gone. You will be living off of small game, and birds. Ever try to hit a bird with an AR or Rem 700? Every try to eat a rabbit or squirrel you ‘took down’ with a 30 cal? — there is a REASON why the AR survival rifle is a 22LR (now made by Henry) – it will kill a person close up, it will kill rabbits, desert rats, ground squirrels, and even fish of you need — a shotgun will kill people, birds, fish, — and both will take down deer and antelope, even cats, and a 12 ga will take down cats bears, Elk, etc if they are still around, and you are lucky. While most people might be fighting it out among themselves, I’ll be out in the boonies finding a place to live, eat, with good water, and shelter. As a good friend once pointed out to me at home after ‘Nam and I was kind of bemoaning the loss of full-auto or 3 round bursts, he said: get a good, accurate rifle, and at the end of the day you’ll be picking up full autos every time you take a step. I have an exceptional double trigger SSG 69-II with a Mark IV fixed scope, (and yes, it IS an exceptional rifle) BUT you could do the same today with a Rem 700 in any .30 cal you chose. You don’t have to spend the bucks I spent to get the once inch group at 800 meters, you don’t need that. ANY good 400 yard rifle will out-shoot any AR or AK anyone is likely to field against you – and you’d win that firefight if you were as good as your rifle. —————————— why go looking for trouble when trouble will find you if you are not lucky. — arm yourself to survive when you get where you are going – be ready for ‘off the grid living’ – like on patrol – and live your life without fuss and bother. Lack of big game will bring down most people since they travel on their stomachs, and caned food is heavy – In the desert all I need to worry about is clean water (filter and clorox will take care of that) and food (22LR (or some kind of .17) will take care of the small stuff, and a 12 ga with a couple of bbls will take care of birds, people, and larger animals. — why seek engagement when your best bet is to run away at the sound of gunfire, hide from groups of people, and live like you were on patrol or on ambush. It’s simple, it’s easy, and like the Col. says, a handful of 22LR will last you one hell of a longer time than ANY .30 cal or larger. That means you will live longer. And if it gets close and ugly, a 12 ga will take care of that problem -[ and for me, a nice study side arm like a P-226 with hollow points. Remember the .223 was not designed to kill it was designed to wound– it ties up FAR more of an opponents forces to take care of the wounded than it does to take care of the dead. And if you’ve ever been in a firefight, the sounds of the wounded will make your mind wander and take it’s focus off of you and onto the ‘comrade’ in need of help. Also you don’t move really fast with wounded, so your .223 might be accurate, but it does exactly what it’s been designed for – you don’t want to be on the receiving end of one — and if you really REALLY want one, get a good hunting rifle – Rem 700, Sako Finbear, Weatherby, Marlin, Winchester – all will do the job that you really don’t want to be doing. Your weight carry is better used for shelter, medical, sleeping, etc than it is for ammo, and .22, .17, and 12 ga are your good benefit/cost ratio rounds, and .22 over .17 because it, like the 12 gauge is a ubiquitous round found and scrounged everywhere – just like a .270 or 30-06, every one has one. Would I take my SSG-69 PII, no, but I’d take the scope and tripod. I’d prefer to move AROUND areas of contact and keep a low profile and travel quickly and quietly. I’ve probably put 10,000+ rounds through my P226 and never had a misfire, one stove pipe from ONE cartridge, and the bbl is like new. Just my two cents worth for WTSHTF and it’s time to GOOD.
Well said, I totally agree- Many don”t realize being covert and staying concealed is your best avenue. Climate issues will be most
difficult for people particularly family groups. Warmth, shelter, food and defensive weapons, firearm and knifes.
Many will be lost, they will have do ideas how to cope.
Lots of opinionated responses.
I say it’s a good article to get some power into your hands quick & cheap.
People can work on better alternatives as they have the time, knowledge and money, later on.
I went with the AK-74 5.45×39, VEPR sniper 7.62x54R, REM 870 12 GA, and a Ruger 10/22 Takedown.
I have fun and shoot for pennies, SG being the most expensive
I may buy a crate of Mosins for friends , family and nostalgic reasons.
Useful Article, Thanks.
Good article! I have 3 91/30’s; an MOD, double date, sniper select (all sniper, accuracy, etc proof marks but not drilled for scope mount), a DDR issue, and a Tula hex. In carbines I have an M38 and an M44. Also have a Chinese Type 53 (M44) and a Type 56 (SKS). All good rifles and a gas to shoot. The most I paid was $140 for the M38 and that was last year during the peak of fear. Got started when ammo was cheap ($64 for 440) and loaded up for life. All are in good-very good condition and after fixing the “sticky-bolt” syndrome they all shoot well. I see no need for any other type rifle. The way I see it, when the hordes come knocking at my door, I’ll get as many as I can at the gate but till then I’ll use them for plinking, hunting, and schooling my son in the use of a long gun. Best money I’ve ever spent. They may be old but they’re solid and reliable. Get one and find out for yourself.
Great article! 3MOA is fine for combat shooting — aim for center of body mass. Most of the old WWI/II battle rifles were sited in at 300 yards — that’s why it’s a foot high at 100 yards, the bullet is still climbing! “You’re always prepared to fight the last war” is why. Trenches were about 300 yards apart… Lessons learned in WWII meant smaller calibers and/or less power (5.56 for US, 7.62×39 Russian) with sites brought back in to about 100 yards. Aiming center of body mass even a 6MOA is “good enough”!
One thing I want to add — the long gun is better than the short ones for most people (M38, M44, Chinese Type 54 are all “short”). The M44 I had and the Type 54 I now have both had a lot more kick than the long guns (I have a Finnish model and a 1936 Russian). These are definitely the best “bang for the buck” around!
The only thing I’d do if this were my only rifle is invest in a sight. I used a rail that took the place of the flip-up front sight and mounted a reflex sight on it (scout scope mount). Worked great, and after dialing in was fairly accurate – much better than the factory sights. I didn’t try to get more than 3MOA @ 100 yards though, could have bought it down to about 2MOA with more practice. Was firing 3MOA with under a dozen shots, had trouble hitting a 6″ square target with factory sitghts. A friend mounted a pistol scope on the same type rail and it was all but useless. The impact from firing worked the rail loose after 3-4 shots. I didn’t have that problem, so assume it was from the weight of the scope. Probably could have bedded the rail with epoxy and/or used red lock-tite on the set screws, but he gave it up and bought a red-dot tube type sight instead… and used blue lock-tite on the wcrews to be safe. Realiable and accurate!
So here is the lowdown on the Mosin. I own one. It is my sole bolt action…for now. I have an AR that I built and AR SNOBS wouldn’t even consider owning (PSA…composite lower…carbine length chambered in 5.56 which is falling out of tacticoolness in favor of .308 and 300Blackout.
I live my mosin. Have had a great deal of fun upgrading it and making it mine. Is it accurate to 500 yards? No. But it does a lot the ar won’t do. It is rugged. Takes a lickin’ and keeps on tickin. It will (as the article suggests) do some things the smaller caliber AR cannot. Penetration on that in that round is the most value you can find at half the cost of similar calibers. The 5.56 is a notoriously under powered rifle round. Yes our military uses it. But when the shtf and you have to draw down on anything other than a single human or hunting game (cars, gangs, makeshift armor) I am going for the mosin. I was in my gun shop and someone asked about “plinking” with one of those rifles in the crate. Guy behind the counter said…”that isn’t something you plink with. It will tear up your steel targets.”
Bottom line is the Mosin is a poor man’s 30-06. It isn’t trying to be a Remington 700. It is an effective complimentary piece. It is easy to operate, easily deployed to green shooters, value added power. There is a reason it is still being used in military conflicts around the world today 125 years since it was introduced.
And when the SHTF I don’t NEED a rifle with an effective range. I am not a sniper. I have no where to train to be one nor the time.
If I am 200 yards away from a target my strategy will be to seek another route and not engage. If I must engage at that range because I am pinned down then rate of fire trumps caliber and move to the AR. Hopefully it will never come to that.
If you do a little looking…… Remington and Westinghouse both had contracts to make theses guns for the Russians. The Westinghouse rifles were made in the old Stevens gun works.
How do you identify the US-made guns?
The guns are marked just as the Russian, Fin, Polish, etc are. The Remingtons say so in big letters on the top of the receiver.
I have a couple. Neat old rifles, however the Russian’s changed to the AK for a reason. If I can have only one, it will by the AK. Fast, reliable, relatively light and powerful enough.
I have been a gun owner for over 60 years
I own two mosins and love shooting them. They are completely reliable, cheap to shoot and a hell of a lot of fun. Also cleaning is very cheap and easy. Just clean out the gun with water to get rid of the corrosive salt, then clean and oil as usual. I have never had a problem with this and my bore looks brand new. I have AR’s, pistols, rifles and shotguns. But the mosin is my favorite to shoot and just generally have fun with.
The author made excellent points on the merits of the Mosin Nagant.
Sure it is not tacti-cool. It is czar/commie crude, but capable.
Priced like a pellet gun, it is a powerful 30 caliber rifle in the 308 class.
What’s not to like at that price point?
Show me a better value than a Mosin.
Mixed emotions about the article, I have 4 Mosin’s-all very good shooters and quality ammo is chap and available, but I would like to know where you can buy a decent one as noted ($75+) in the article-all of mine ran about $130-150, with accessories. No beat up, grease packed worn out bores and stocks that looked like they went through a wood chipper. A simple cleaning and they were range ready!
I got my M44 2 years ago at Big 5 in California here, for only $79, and that was a “select” one. With tax, and DROS, and whatever other fees they can tack on, that all came to about $125. The bore on mine was pristine, and came with a crisp 4.5 lb. trigger pull out of the box, so I know I got lucky.
I think you can still find M44’s in the $99 range, but the last few 91/30’s I have seen there since I bought mine were right at $129 or so, before all the bureaucratic tack-on charges.
The writer of this article states that the bolt is handfitted to each rifle and is no good without the original bolt. That is not true. These weapons are made with such low tolerance that you can swap bolts from one rifle to another. These rifles are so low tech that is what makes them so desirable. The cost of these weapons has skyrocketed over the past several years. If you can find a $99.00 Mosin you have scored a deal. Even the very cheap Chinese 53’s have gone up in price . The bottom line on these weapons is they are very low tech a real pleasure to shoot and ammo is still fairly inexpensive.
The hand-fitted aspect of this (and most other guns produced) is the head-space for bolt to chamber clearance of ammunition.
Any new-to-you gun should be inspected for proper head space, and any piece that has had a bolt “exchanged” for other than it’s factory original supplied bolt needs to be inspected for adequate head space.
You gamble with serious injury when ignoring this simple fact of firearm design and any gun’s long term maintenance.
I have had brand new Beretta long arms that required gunsmithing to correct improper head space, and relying on ??? for this safety concern on well-used and/or surplus arms is foolish in the extreme.
Right on brother.
You are right about the Mosin 91/30. From my limited experience, you can’t beat the M1A-M-14 for accuracy over 300 yards. I understand we’re talking “budget”rifles and your right,but from a military arms stand point, I like my 308 .
My first C&R rifle was a M44. loved it. One of the things I liked most about it was the huge thundering BOOM it makes and the fireball that extends five feet past the end of the barrel. People were always coming up to me and asking what the hell I was shooting.. Since then I’ve added five other Mosins in various configurations. M38, another M44 and several 91/30’s. love each one of them. You should have mentioned that the only way to clean a Mosin is with ammonia or an expensive solution, (can’t remember the name), to counter act the corrosive nature of the ammo. This is very important.
Bob, even water will remove the corrosive salts. Windex works too.
I have to disagree with the author. IF you don’t practice with any gun, when it hits the fan and the adrenalin is running high, you won’t hit the broadside of a barn. You have to practice, or the rifle, ANY rifle, will be useless.
Open Fire
Cheers
I know this is heresy, but I must disagree about the need for regular, continuing practice.
Yes, it’s true if you are talking competition-level accuracy (which we’d all like to have when the old SHTF), but anyone who has ever had any real skills with a firearm shouldn’t need it to perform quite well.
I was always a GOOD shot in the Army & undoubtedly shot thousands of rounds my first ten years, but the last ten were in areas & jobs that neither needed firearms skill, nor even had ranges that were practical to access, especially those last 7 years in the Pentagon. I fired NOTHING those 7 years & at that point hadn’t fired my personal .357 in almost ten years. Several years later I moved southward to a Virginia farm where I could shoot & fish all day, and helped my wife train her Field Trial retrievers — actually the first time I had ever fired a shotgun.
I had zero difficulty in learning those strange shotgun things — hardly any range, needing to “lead” birds, etc — and I found that after a couple of warm-up shots I did just fine with all her rifles & pistols (she had an FFL & a lot of firearms). It’s just like riding a bicycle or swimming — you never forget how. I haven’t fired her scoped Anschutz in almost ten years (or any other of our rifles), but I’d bet even money that, after a couple of warm-up rounds, I wouldn’t be more than a couple of inches off at 100 yards. Could I get better with regular practice? Yes. Is it essential? Hardly.
While you’re shooting those “warmup rounds” your enemy would be shooting back and he may be better “warmed up” than you. It’s foolish to depend on a firearm for defense or survival and never practice. But it’s your life and you are free to risk it any way you want.
By no means is ammonia required or even suggested for cleaning after firing corrosive primed ammo.
If you have a copper build-up problem ammonia is most suitable. It is NOT effective against perchlorate salts, only water and mechanical agitation deals with the corrosives adequately.
Simple boiling water will both clean and dry the affected areas, leaving a simple patch & lube to prepare the arm for return to the rack.
One thing that the article failed to inform about is that the majority of surplus ammo (the cheap stuff anyway) has a steel cored projectile. Most ranges supplying targets suitable for rifle (steel targets anyway) will exclude the use of this ammo because it irreparably harms / destroys even armor-grade steel targets.
Another thing to consider about the steel cored ammo is that in this caliber there is high probability of unintended consequence due to over?- penetration. This is a truly powerful round that will pass through -much- obstacles and keep on going. Be certain of your backstop.
Great comments, thanks. I have no idea where this ridiculous “ammonia” myth came from. I take out the action, pull the bolt and run a long funnel down into the breech, and then pour a pot of boiling water down it, with the muzzle in a bucket. Then I take a patched rod and pull it up and down, sucking the water back up into the bore. The heat of the water dries the barrel very quickly. Then a few patches with Hoppes, or Dillon Bore Care or whatever, and a light oil and you’re done.
If you like that fireball, try firing a Tokarev. That little 7.62xs5 round throws a 3 ft. flame out of the muzzle. I got it in 1965 from an NVA major who had no further use for it, but I did. Great pistol but I still prefer my Remington-Rand 1911.
I love my Tokarev TTC Romanian it is a great little hand gun.
At one time I went crazy for inexpensive Russian rifles and revolvers Had around 25 N-M variants including Finnish. The Finn M39 are the best version. Then due to OTJ injuries I could no longer handle the recoil. The N-M are great rifles worth the money. If it impacts high, like in the photo attached a taller front sight will lower the point of impact. You can even file one by hand. Get it zeroed for 100 Yd./m. If you are older, like me, with failing vision, it needs better sights. There are some mounts that will make adding a simple glass optic easy. Spare parts are cheap from Sarco. I could have outfitted a couple platoons so armed.
Get one or two and couple cans of ammo, especially if you can find stripper clips. They are slower to load than a Mauser 98, but they work. Over 40 years I have seen one broken extractor, one broken firing pin, one broken sear and one missing a front sight (that was found and secured). If you have a bunch of them I suggest you buy a “NO – GO” headspace gage. I found 2 or 3 out of 25+ that had loose or too tight to work safely. Since I hoarded spare parts, I fixed them in under 10 minutes. They are so simple that anyone can do the repairs.
What do you mean, “the inevitable collapse of life as we know it”, and “second amendment assault sure as the sun rises…” Geeez, stop that!
Maybe not in the next decade, but it is looking more and more likely in next 20 years, esp. if the current party remains in power past 2016.
First rifle I ever got was the Mosin. Picked it up for $90 Got a spam can of ammo 440 rounds for $55. Shot 3 rounds to test it out, cleaned it up. I’m ready for the end game, right? Not quite. This is a nice first time buy, but if you want to keep the gangs away, better get an AR. I’d rather have 2 or 3 Glocks in 10mm with extra mags and 3000 rounds or so than 10 Mosins.
I would, too … unless I had 9 friends standing around, willing to help out but unarmed. In that case it would be nice to have a case of MNs sitting around ready to go.
MNs have a serious advantage over pistols in the range department. Nothing says “GTFO” quite like getting tagged at 800-1,000 yards.
I’m a Marine…not offended. I got it. Through the scope of the article the logic comes through. The storm is coming and the sense behind what you present is sound. The M&P-15 is marginal as will be anything at the bottom end of the range…pissing contest start now.
A $100 rifle with good power and reasonable accuracy…cheap, available ammo…simplicity to maintain and keep secure. Necessity is the prime mover here. I have not been a fan of this rifle but these are sound points…good article.
For the same price range (roughly $75-$200) I would also recommend a 12 (or 20) gauge pump shotgun for many people as an a heavier piece of firepower. In addition to slugs/buck for defense, it can also be loaded with various sizes of shot to make it an effective hunting weapon for small game. (such as pigeons or cats in an urban survival environment, or squirrels and game birds in more rural areas. )
While it might not have the range of the Mosin Nagant, it’s versatility offers some advantages, not to mention 12/20 gauge rounds are a lot easier to come by in a survival scenario then more ammo for a Mosin.
You are spot on Jenette…Pump shotguns are outstanding performers in many situations…They are also a bargain. If easy on the pocketbook is a main consideration…you can do yourself a favor by buying a scattergun. Very easy to ‘reload’ in a shtf scenario too. ‘Reloaders’ are simple and inexpensive. Shotguns are multi-purpose and will do the trick for defense, putting food on the table (from birds to big game w/various ‘shot’ sizes OR Slugs)…or just for good ole’ fashioned
FUN. Everyone should have at least one working shotgun in they ‘stash’….jmho
“In fact you can’t one for $500 that works reliably. ”
You really need to check the market again. The S&W MP 15 Sport is regularly showing up on sale for just a hair over $500 NIB. It isn’t reliable?
You can always snag a deal here and there with guns but it depends on the market. It is irrelevant to the point of the article that Nagants are generally less than half that.
I have to agree with this article as much as i don’t particularly care for anything not having a fast rate of fire, For those thinking they could use a rifle that punches fmj rounds through oak trees someone thinks they can hide behind, and certainly through frame buildings like they weren’t there this, isn’t a bad bang for the buck.
And lets face it if a budget is a serious concern, you can’t do much better than this for both the ammo and the rifle. Except maybe back in the days, when brand new AK’s were only a buck and a half and 1200 rounds of steel core in a sealed tin were only 79.95!
I agree. I bought my SKS about 20 yrs ago for just over $100, and a 1000-round ammo can for about $85, as best I recalll. But those days are long gone and aren’t coming back. For those with a seriously low budget, The Mosin seems like a great alternative. I’m thinking about one myself, though I have a lot of firearms already, since it’ll swallow my SKS ammo and, being a bolt-action, is inherently more reliable. For SHTF, especially long-term, I strongly favor revolvers, bolt (or lever) action, and pump shotguns. Unless you have some gunsmithing skills & a lot of spare parts, semi-autos seem a bit risky to depend on in the “out-years.”
I’m also a big fan of my .22-cal RWS airgun (about 900 fps), which is very quiet, extremely accurate, and costs almost nothing to stock “ammo” for. Just having those extra 25,000 pellets (plus the cleaning pellets, oil, etc) in the cabinet means that I can save .22LR and .22 magnum ammo for other uses — and in a pinch I suspect I could take out a human with a head or neck shot, which this target air rifle is perfectly capable of doing at quite a distance. Not the Perfect Solution as a rifle, but one hell of a tool for about $200.
I’m also big on the .22 magnum. My wife has had a scoped Savage-Anschutz in .22 magnum for about 35 years, and it’s as close to my old Weatherby’s accuracy as anything I’ve shot. And the ammo was cheap to stockpile over the years, too.
While it’s true that a person should at least test-fire a rifle he buys, if at all possible, I can see that for some city-dwellers that may be tricky. But, as is pointed out here, if you can trust the seller (friend or reputable dealer), and it bolt-cyclles thee ammo properly, a Mosin is highly likely to perform adequately (esp. for the price). By all means fire it as much as possible and then clean the hell out of it. Then if you store it properly it should do the job when you need it. If it’s the only rifle you can afford (especially considering the ammo & its availability), it’s a great choice.
Someone once answered the question about which is the best handgun for defense, with “The one you actually have in your pocket.” For that reason I always considered my cheap little Davis Derringer (.22 magnum) my best carry gun because it was ALWAYS in my left front pocket, whether out watering or mowing the lawn, or when I jumped on the old Yamaha & rode down to pick up some snacks. My Ruger GP-101 was usually with me, too, but not always, like the derringer. I look upon the Mosin as in a similar category. I can bang it around on the tractor, maybe get it a bit wet when it rains, and i don’t care if the finish suffers over the years. Same reason I bought my Mossberg 500 & usuallly leave the pretty Remington & Winchester shotguns in the gun cabinets.
It will not swallow your SKS ammo.
Your statement “It will swallow SKS ammo” is only partly true- It *will* swallow your 7.62 X 39 SKS ammo, the problem will come when that round slides forward to the cartridge’s shoulder and sits there in the 7.62 X 54R Mosin’s chamber just waiting for you to slam a second round into the now occupied chamber . If you are *very* lucky, the second round won’t fire the primer on the forward round which will explosively drive the open bolt into your face…
I agree with the pellet guns. One of my pellet rifles shoots 1400 ft. per sec.so it will bring down most anything.
Your article starts off as a slap to the Marine Corp. After that didn’t i want to read it, yet I did and..terrible
“You dont even have to shoot the weapon to depend on it” ?????
That is crazy!!
would u not shoot a firearm, never test it, then pull it out when ur life and your family’s depended on it????
PS Good idea suggest every jackass with $100 bucks a powerful rifle.
Yea it isn’t for elitist fools who think that they are the only ones who have the right to survive.
Ain’t that the truth? Full Metal Jacket was a ‘lame’ movie? Where’s that ROFLMAO smiley?
As for the Mosin… No thanks. I prefer guns that can actually hit targets, and don’t fire corrosive ammo.
The way I remember it from boot camp is
““This is my rifle. This is my gun. This is for fighting, this is for fun.” I also remember “I wanna’ be an airborne ranger, live the life of blood and danger, I wanna’ go to Vietnam, I wanna kill a viet cong.” Can’t imagine the same thing today. They don’t even d bayonet drill anymore do they? “What is the spirit of the bayonet, to kill!”
Yup, like that psychological issue with people constantly hearing the same rock and roll song verse in their minds all day long, sometimes these cadence songs come back and haunt me as well. Especially remembering one of my men when once we were flanked pinned down after making contact with an ‘underestimated’ NVA company and running out of ammo in an extended firefight and no air or arty support any time soon to cover a fall back. Definately a ‘numba huckin 10 sitrep.’
I made the decision anyway to ‘deedeehuckinmow’ as in right now, but a pair of nasty non stop RPD’s were preventing us from jumping up for the obligatory hundred yard dash into the jungle. Then Johnny started singing I wanna be an airborne ranger, and I said Johnny, STFU!, you already ARE an Airborne Ranger! you’re giving away your position. He grinned and took a machete in one hand and one of the last grenades in another, jumped up and ran toward the enemy screaming as loud as he could…” WHATS THE SPIRIT OF THE BAYONET! WHATS THE MOTHERFUCKING SPIRIT OF THE BAYONET!! KIIILLLLLLLLLL!!!! As he ran and disappeared into the jungle, directly toward the enemy fire, never to be seen again. Amazingly, all enemy firing suddenly stopped then.
We hit it so fast that we didn’t even look back until we must have ran for 15 minutes. We did hear the grenade go off and the sounds of screaming and violent gunfire before the even more frightening ‘sounds of silence’.
Unlike Benghazi, Nobody even considered the thought of leaving ANYBODY behind. Especially somebody who saved our lives by giving us an edge to get away and regroup. As soon as we gunned up again we went looking for him. With no sleep or much food for at least two days but we couldn’t find him. Lot of blood trails not far from where he went in on them. But we never found any trace of him.
I put him in for the medal. But it came back ‘unapproved’ because there were no indications that his actions were not just a ‘retreat’… in the wrong direction! And no credible ‘witnesses’ to any exceptional ‘valor’. My return messages to ‘command’ were about to get me court marshalled but meanwhile we were gathering intelligence as to possible ‘unknown’ POW camps so that we could do an ‘unordered’ mission. We decided, one way or the other, we’ll get ‘closure’. Which definately would have got me a reservation in the breakrock military ‘hotel Leavenworth, but i got wounded out before we could do the dirty work…
Okay, that’s enough PTSD stimulus. Sorry about that.
Thank you for your service.
Thank you all who “STAND FOR AMERICA”
second that
Can’t understand the mentality of a “patriot” that wants to own a communist gun. So many fine American made rifles yet people want to own communist crap ( AK, SKS, Mosin, etc., etc.) I just don’t get it. And to use a musket like the Mosin in todays semi-auto world for self defense is unimaginable. Are they reliable….yup. Are they accurate….NOPE !!!! The accuracy of an AK or SKS is laughable, why do you think they call them “spray and pray”. Save ur money and buy something American made, you will be glad you did !!!
Perhaps you would be kind enough to direct me to a reliable and accurate 30-06 for $145? That is the going price for MNs in good shape at the moment. While you are at it, could you find me some 30-06 ammunition for 22 cents per round?
BTW, my MN 91/30 might be a fluke, but it is a 1 – 1 1/2 MOA firearm with milsurp steel core ammunition over iron sights.
If I could get my hands on one for less than a gallon of blood, I’d buy an M1 carbine as a self-defense rifle. It might not have the specs of other firearms, but it comes to my shoulder like it grew there. I can look at a B-27 target 100 yards away, pull the rifle to shoulder and squeeze the trigger without referencing the sights and it will be in the 8 ring … if I take a moment to actually use the sights, it will be in the 9 ring or better. The limit, I think, is my vision … but I can do a magazine dump freehand into a paper plate at 50 yards in roughly 2 seconds.
While I’m happy that you can afford the price of American guns, many of us cannot. My mortage takes half of my paltry E-8 retirement check, and the rest has to be VERY carefully budgeted. I bought most of my firearms before I retired, back in the 80s when used firearms prices weren’t through the roof, and I had an FFL. My M-1 carbines ran me less that $150 each … but price them now!
Personally I’d rather keep my rifles simple, so bolt-actions are my preference — not the semi-autos that I have not the skills to repair or fine-tune, especially if I eventually have to resort to used, scrounged or amateurishly-reloaded (by me) ammo. Similarly, most of my pistols are revolvers — mostly older Amercan ones I bought decades ago. The only reason I would ever buy an AR-15 (or similar) would be for the wide availability of that ammo; but the thousand bucks that would run me is now, I believe, better spent on stockpiling ammo for the simple weapons I now have, relying heavily on .22, .22 magnum, .357/38, and my old SKS — not as fancy a semi-auto platform, but its simplicity and reliability appeals to me (not to mention that I bought a couple of 1000-round surplus bricks for just over $100 apiece, back when. For fancy longer shots, I’ll likely rely on my wife’s old scoped Savage-Anschutz target rifle in .22 WMR.
The zombie apocalypse may well last for many years. I consider it an open-ended threat, and plan accordingly. While I sometimes envy those who have racks of expensive, modern semi-autos, I suspect that my bolt-action Anschutz, “loose & sloppy” M-1 carbines, and Ruger/Colt revolvers are going to be shooting longer than the AR-15 platforms and overcomplicated semi-auto pistols that the gun-magazine writers are so enamored of. And the only spare parts I have to stash are extra firing pins and a few springs (most of which are never going to be used).
Down and dirty and in the s#*t!!
That’s the way it was done back in the day….. Upfront and personal…. Today a lot of it is just impersonal “point & click” battles…. There is something to be said for that when it comes to soldier safety and return home rates but I feel battle has lost something too…. (sigh)
I don’t doubt some of our boys gutting it out door to door in Rhamadi or Falluja truly have PTSD issues…. As a matter of factiI’m sure of it….. Expecting a turban wearing miscreant around every doorframe for 18 to 24 months would drive me up the wall too…. But….. Some of these kids come back crying PTSD after driving a truck route for 12 months on a National Guard rip that never even got fired on once but their friend ran over an IED an now they can’t sleep?? WTH??
I know this isn’t a very popular topic and an even less popular opinion but it’s my opinion…..
I was in Desert Storm and had air raid sirens going off 6 times a day and watched the Patriots blow up SCUD’s right over my head on a daily basis….. My crew chief took time out of a tank engagement firefight to have me throw a TOW missile up a Camel’s butt…… Under orders, I threw grenades into known occupied bunkers and spider holes…. Between the tank crews and the bunkers I have 42 confirmed kills…. I sleep like a baby…. My wife loves to tell me I’m not normal because that should bother a normal person…. LOL
Well…. The supposedly “elite” Republican Guard was trying to kill me….. It was me or them…… I chose them, thank you very much….. Like I said, I sleep like a baby, and at 46, if they wanted me to come fly some TOW’s into some tanks again because they suddenly realized they needed all hands on deck no matter how old, fat, crippled or slow…. I’d be on the next transport with a smile!
Oh well…
Thank you for your service in a Damn nasty “police action”.
I had my fun in an “operation”.
(I sure would hate to see what’s gonna happen if America ever actually goes to “war” again!!)
I’m gonna step down off my ammo crate now…… LOL
I believe they still train with the bayonet for riot control. Stomp-drag-thrust. Repeated over and over.
While I agree for the most part with the author’s assessment that there are no powerful handguns. My caveat would be that there aren’t any common handguns in common self defense calibers.
On the fringe, there definitely are powerful handguns. And I’m not talking about handguns chambered in rifle calibers. Both the S&W .460 and 500 magnums are available in loads that approach 3000 ft-lbs of energy. More than most 30-06 rounds. The .460 can push a 300 gr bullet to 2000 fps. (Buffalo Bore). The 500 can push bullets approaching 500 gr to speeds over 1500 fps. This is serious stuff. But the guns aren’t exactly light. To put it in perspective, I own a 5.2 lb AR15. But my .460 XVR revolver with a 1.5-6 scope on it weighs over 6.5 lbs.
One other thing. Even the common .44 magnum, when loaded with Buffalo Bore Ruger only +P+ loads gets 1450 ft-lbs of energy. More than a .223.
Don
A great alternative would be an American made Hi-Point Carbine in 9mm, .40, or 45 ACP….priced right (200-$300) and function perfectly…w/+P or any other ammo available. You get the most from inexpensive ‘pistol’ ammo and they pack a wallup. jmho. I’ve owned a 995TS (9mm version) and it shoots perfectly…every single time. You could do worse and spend huge money in the process ….visit their website. You’ll be glad you did…BUY AMERICAN.
Your statement proves you just don’t get it. A pistol caliber carbine is a *very* poor match to a battle rifle. You can shoot someone with a .22 long rifle Marlin too, but odds are you will get shot from cover by anyone with a serious caliber rifle before you even suspect they are out there..
Great article! I own 17 Mosin Nagant long rifles, 2 Nagant Snipers and 2 Nagant 44 Carbines. They are by far the funnest rifles to shoot. They also get the attention of most everyone while at the range no matter where you go. Yes, they go Booooom when shot. They really feel like an old hunting rifle rather than a battle rifle to me but my modern hunting rifles have a violent kick to them and these Nagants have a more comfortable kick. My best comparison is something like a .50 cal Black Powder Rifle without the hand loading after each shot. The first time I shot a Mosin Nagant long rifle I couldn’t stop giggling or smiling. I was completely stoked. It was the best feeling of any firearm I’d ever shot!
Norm
Former Army Aviator
go big look I have never been on this before but I do know wars were won on heavy guns. I would take a 30-30 over a 22 anytime even with the cost cause when it come down to it when the GOV shows up at your door for your guns what are you goin to do. well for me I don’t know. I do not want my family to die cause that is what will happen , unless we stop this from being possible