Make sure you’re prepared to score your surplus 1911 from the CMP.
Editor’s note: Just received the following email in my inbox, figured I’d get the word out right away… If you haven’t heard, the Civilian Marksmanship Program got the green light to surplus 1911s next year. Apparently, there will be as many as 10,000 available for purchase. Given the high demand, there have been a lot of questions on how CMP will orchestrate the sale of these historic pistols. Well, CMP’s chief operating officer Mark Johnson just sent out the following:
To all CMP constituents:
The CMP Board of Directors has discussed at length how the sales of 1911s would be handled, if the CMP were to ever receive them from the United States Army.
Some preliminary decisions:
- Decisions concerning the grade and pricing of the 1911s will not be made until inspection has occurred of a substantial quantity which will take an estimated 150 days post receipt.
- All laws pertaining to the sale of 1911s by CMP will be strictly obeyed.
- Potential purchasers will have to provide to CMP a new set of documents exhibiting: 1) proof of U.S. Citizenship, 2) proof of membership in a CMP affiliated club, 3) proof of participation in a marksmanship activity, 4) a new form 2A with notary, 5) successful completion of a NICS background check, 6) a signed copy of the 01 Federal Firearms License in which the 1911 will be transferred to.
- The CMP customer will be required to complete a form 4473 in person and successfully complete another NICS check by the recipient FFL holder before the pistol can be transferred.
- Qualified CMP customer will only be allowed to purchase one 1911 per calendar year.
- No 1911s available in the CMP stores, or on line, only mail order sales.
- CMP will set the date in which it will accept orders for the 1911s. The date will be posted to the world.
- Orders will only be accepted via mail order delivery.
- Orders will only be accepted post marked on the date or after, no early orders.
- Once CMP receives 10,000 orders, customer names will be loaded into the Random Number Generator.
- The Random Number Generator will provide a list of names in sequence order through a random picking process to CMP.
- Customers will be contacted in the sequence provided by the Random Number Generator.
- When the customer is contacted a list of 1911 grades and pricing options that are available will be offered for selection of one.
- As CMP proceeds down the sequenced list less grade and pricing options will be available. Again, this done completely random.
Mark Johnson
Chief Operating Officer
Civilian Marksmanship Program
About the CMP
The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is a national organization dedicated to training and educating U. S. citizens in responsible uses of firearms and airguns through gun safety training, marksmanship training and competitions. The CMP is a federally chartered 501(c)(3) corporation that places its highest priority on serving youth through gun safety and marksmanship activities that encourage personal growth and build life skills.
Too much red tape to aquire one of these.
Surprised they aren’t asking for your first born child.
Just too much trouble to aquire one for a collector.
Better to find one in a legitimate gun store,fill out the correct paperwork , back round check,
and waiting period,and then take it home.
I have a a 1944 vintage Remington Rand that I paid $220 for when the first wave of milsurps started coming back.
It is in original serviceable condition but has a small import stamp. Not a high grade piece but it is still the real deal. I look at the gun as a piece of history. I will continue to fire it occasionally and appreciate what it represents. I feel that I have the have responsibility to preserve this gun in the condition it is in and pass it down to someone else when the time comes.
Since one 1911 A1 is enough for me I will not be going for a CMP gun. I am glad to know that at least some of the 1911’s on gov’t inventory won’t be demilled and will end up with responsible owners who will appreciate these guns regardless of condition.
Now if we could just get at some of Smith & Wesson Model 15s that the Air Force had.
Much ado about nothing to quote a phrase. Nothing will change because we keep the same “politicians”.
Bypass this bureaucratic folly. There are much better options out there than to join into such a time wasting activity. Go into the market, be patient and buy something of value.
I am a American citizen, a retired Chief of Police, s retired Special Agent, retired from the U.S. Army, a member of the American Legion and I have a concealed carry license and I don’t meet the CMP requirements necessary to buy one of these 1911’s. There is something wrong with all the requirements and I am an unhappy camper. Veterans should be first and the only other requirements should be an American Citizen, honorable discharge and not a convicted felon and that’s it. Then everyone else can use the rinky dink other requirements.
I agree with you Sir.
I also am a U S Army veteran.
i fully agree–naval vet and garand collector member nra member i still do not qualify
I agree with you sir I am USMC vet.
Thanks for all of your service Floyd, and I agree the CMP should waive all the requirements (except for the NICS & 4473) for veterans and law-enforcement.
However, you should have to stand in line like every other law-abiding U.S. Tax-payer who wants one of these.
After all, it was the U.S. Tax-payer who paid for these 1911s to begin with.
Every Army 1911 I carried in the 80\’s was a piece of junk – they rattled badly, they were pitted, had little finish left and the grips were bad. In some cases you were lucky to be able to hit the target at 25 meters because they were loose and shot out. I\’m not overly optimistic over what\’s going to be sold. I imagine there\’s a handful that are in new shape that never saw action but I expect the vast majority are beat to hell.
Well, guess anyone who lives in Mississippi will not be able to get one. There is no CMP club or affiliate in this state. And according to their rules, a veteran I the VFW is eligible to buy any other weapon that CMP sells, so why now the change. Any Veteran that is in the VFW or American Legion should have first shot at these M1911s as well as CCW holders. They just playing politics, and don’t think much of veterans or those with CCW’s. There is the real CRIME!!!!!!
Why should a veteran in the vfw or ccw holders get first shot at the 1911’s? It’s the civilian marksmanship program, key word being civilian. I know many veterans get garands and such from the cmp but I see not legitimate rational to give a vet or ccw holder preferential treatment. Let me guess, you are a veteran?
You don’t have to live in the state of a CMP club or affiliate to belong to it.in most cases.
Another stupid: “You can buy one if you’re special program”. Why should anyone have priority over any other tax paying American when it comes to buying these firearms? My frickin’ tax dollars paid for them, so why am I last (or not at all) on the list for one? The Govt. should simply sell them to the general public – first come first served – but a limit of 1 so everyone gets a chance. Grading would obviously need to be done, but you can see how the Govt. grades surplus – which would be performed much more favorable in my opinion than by some organization looking to fill their coffers who is being favored above Joe Public. Screw CMP and any other org. that gets priority over me.
CMP is the Civilian Marksmanship Program, not the Civilian Gun Collectors Program. You want a firearm from them, join a group or organization that promotes marksmanship. Simple!
The M1911 pistol in its 2 versions has been, and STILL IS, a SYMBOL of the US Military. Think of all of the wars that it has been used in, and how many Americans died during those wars. No matter its age, or its supposed uselessness, and the legendary inaccuracy, the buyers of this pistol ARE NOT GOING TO USE THEM TO ENGAGE IN COMPETITIVE SHOOTING. They are NOT going to fire thousands of rounds through these pistols. Normal people are NOT going to accurize or modify them. They are not going to put dayglo or laser sights on them or carry them concealed. What are they going to do with them? the VAST MAJORITY of people who want these surplus M1911’s are going to….wait for it….Display them in a place of honor. Keep them oiled and protected from further deterioration. Pass them down to their chosen family members. Proudly and safely show and share them with friends, family, and other military veterans, and bring back memories, some great, and many sad…MOST people are not going to buy these for whatever price and try to sell them immediately. These will go to, I think, and should go to, US military veterans who actually USED them during the 70 or more years of service to PROTECT American lives. And lets face it, we did NOT care that we could not hit the bulls eye at 100 yards with every shot. What we wanted was FINAL DEFENSE weapon that could stop, kill, or deter an enemy within 25 feet. THAT was what the M1911 was for. Period. And it did it. The fakers who complain about accuracy of the 1911 should use an effing rifle. Enough said. Anyone want to discuss or argue with a USMC veteran of 21 years who TAUGHT Pistol and Rifle marksmanship? I HOPE everyone of these pistols go to US Military veterans who HONOR the M1911 for what it was, and still is. And they should be FREE to the US veterans! Just saying…
Right on. Sounds like the program is being run by Washington bureaucrats, not the veterans who used them.
I agree with you Sir.
I would display mine if I were lucky enough to buy one.
I am a U S Army veteran who served in Vietnam as a Infantry Soldier.
I too am USMC grunt vet. of Viet Nam. I carried both the M14 AND the M1911
“…everyone of these pistols go to US Military veterans.”
Its called the Civilian Marksmanship Program, and not the Veterans Gun Collectors Club for a reason.
Im not sure what people dont get about CIVILIAN* marksmanship program. The guns should be offered to the general public. no preference for anybody. I do agree that the being a member of a CMP club is bit ridiculous as that isn’t practical for many people. There is no shortage of things veterans get preference on ..some things a good idea others not so much. The CMP was to get CIVILIANS involved in marksmanship. Whats happening here is what happens anytime a third party instead of the Feds doing it themselves. I realize that the idea here is to sell the guns to buyers who will not refurbish add sights, customize and try to make carry guns out of them-and more importantly they figure anyone willing to jump through these hoops will not be those with irresponsible or criminal mindset. All it would take is ONE of thee guns sold to the public as Govt surplus to shut down the whole program due to public outcry at the “Govt supplying guns to criminals”..Buy a Veteran should in no way be advantaged or disadvantaged in the process. The guns should be offered. lottery style to eligible pool of citizens. Citizens paid for them regardless of vet status. Yes one would hope the guns would be kept in original condition and not modified or turned into carry guns, but if they are , so be it, once sold they belong to the individual. A number have already been set aside for museum specimens. As the risk to CMP if used in a crime, That is something CMP will have to take a thicker skin stance on and simply make it clear that the criminal is responsible for his/her actions , full stop. But a all things considered the process should be run by a less commercialized org that is likely profiting from this venture rather than citizens simply receiving some of their tax investment back on THEIR property. And as for being a Vet yes I am . A USMC vet as well. I didn’t serve to get preference or advantage over my fellow citizens nor do I feel I deserve it. Many many people esp in the war these guns fought in gave a lot of themselves as civilians for the war effort yes some even risking their lives such such as many kinds of pilots ect. Having a knowledge of firearms or a CCW also should grant no special privileges. s Range officer on busy range some of the WORST shooters Ive seen are veterans of all branches…and yes Ive taught and still teach rifle, shotgun and pistol marksmanship. A person isnt immune form “argument” or being disagreed with on that basis. Im not sure they should be Free” to anyone. There is a cost to process apps and do background checks, safety check and grade the firearms before being surplussed. Id agree there should be NO profit to a third party org doing it for the govt Everyone should have a fair and equal shot . And btw Id agree they were wore out rattled ad inaccurate as hell but they would hit a man sized target reliably at 25 yds with plenty power and efficiency-they did the job they were supposed to do. That cant be said about all US Arms i, the inventory.
I agree with most previous comments. Especially the 2 NICS checks and not accepting my 03FFL. It’s hard to say what condition these firearms will be in because CMP gun smiths will go through each gun and do safety checks. I’m very happy with the four rifles I’ve purchased from the CMP, they all function flawlessly and have increased in value. As for buying something we already paid taxes for; that ripoff happens all the time, the gobberment frequently auctions off excess equipment. I could go on and on but, when it comes down to it if it’s too much bull or $$ then don’t buy!
Actually – the GOV contracts several auction firms to dispose of surplus equipment. It’s actually a pretty big scam since the USG only gets a bare minimum back from these auctions. The companies that auction the items actually make the real money. Especially with the online auctions since they can pull those for whatever reason if the bids are is too low. They’ll wait a few months and try again because hey, Uncle Sam will store it for them.
I once tried to buy a sailboat via online auction. First you have to pay just to bid, then wait till the actual item goes on. They advertise for a long time and then sometimes if not enough interest is generated, they wait longer. After all, more bidder = more money. In the end, they pulled the auction and I gave up.
I believe CMP is much the same – the GOV uses the CMP to liquidate the firearms in a legal, responsible way.
Item 3 has a serious flaw that I hope was unintentional. It states: Potential purchasers will have to provide to CMP a new set of documents exhibiting: …, 6) a signed copy of the 01 Federal Firearms License in which the 1911 will be transferred to.
There are several FFL types that can legally deal in/transfer Title 1 (non-NFA) firearms such as these 1911s. They include Types 01, 02, 07, 08, 09, 10 & 11. I am a type 07 myself and I assure you that I can legally do anything a 01 dealer can. CMP can consult with ATF Industry regulators if need be to get this rule corrected.
Here is but one source of information about manufacturers and importers being able to deal in Title 1 firearms. All FFLs except type 03 and 06 may lawfully deal in Title 1 firearms regardless of which FFL lawfully manufactured or imported such firearms.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-8/download. If the FFL also has a SOT, then they may also deal in Title 2 (NFA) firearms. Manufacturers and importers holding SOTs may manufacture and import Title 2 weapons as well.
A lot of negative comments here….I agree with every one!
I have bought CMP guns in the past. However, I won’t be buying any more. First, CMP guns are over-priced and I expect these 1911’s to be no different. Second, the added requirements are more than I can or would bother with. “Proof of Marksmanship activities”? That let’s me out. I haven’t participated in an organized marksmanship activity in years. I go out plinking all the time…..how am I going to document that?
Finally, there are too many great 1911’s on the market….Remington, Ruger, Sig, plus the low-priced High-quality Phillipines 1911’s (I own two), and many more.
Those who can’t wait to get in line for a CMP 1911, be my guest!
Funny, the CMP seems to be running scared and are being extra careful. There is zero excuse for not allowing 03 Federal Firearms License (C&R) holders to take direct possession of their purchased firearms.
Communist states like California don’t allow C&R holders to mail order pistols and these have to all go through a regular FFl. In addition, lots of states, like California, don’t perform NICS checks on buyers, they either use their own systems and/or have other procedures, like a FOID card or waiving the requirement for CCW holders, etc. As we have seen, these NICS checks are just smoke and mirrors “Feel Good” stuff and only inconvenience lawful buyers. They do nothing to prevent crime.
Also the new requirement, that you have proof of actually participating in a “Shooting Club” is going to prevent a lot of collectors from buying these guns. It used to be if you were a member of the Garand Collectors Association or similar club, you could still buy stuff from CMP and not have to prove you were actively engaged in competitive shooting. Let’s get real, around zero percent of these 1911 are going to be pressed into competitive shooter use. The guns are going to range from piles of crap to too valuable to ever shoot and stuff in between.
I do support the one pistol a year limit. A lot of folks were re-selling guns and basically making a business out of buying from the CMP, which is not the reason for the organization’s existence. CMP has also gotten smarter and actually taken the time to identify rare and desirable guns and put them up for auction, instead of just pushing them out the door with the average stuff.
In any case, CMP is kinda of a joke to me with their “bullseye” mentality. They do little beyond basic marksmanship (which is a good thing), however they need to transition to realistic 2 gun formats if they want to be relevant to preparing the population for military/militia service. I see little point in their games with special jackets, huge shooting gloves and match grade M16A4 with hidden free float tubes and super heavy barrels, added weights, special sights, triggers and special eye glasses, etc.
Everyone should shoot in BDUs with real rifles. Heck you can’t even bring an issued M4 to their games and forget about the Aimpoint or ACOG, which says a lot.
The good news, is at least they finally, after decades of asking, got some 1911, that the liberals wanted cut up and melt down. Hopefully they can start handing out M-9, M-14s and M-16 soon too. Throw in some M60’s and M203’s, while we are at it.
Both the NRA and the CMP need to do some soul searching about the future of marksmanship training and competition. Both the NRA and CMP original reason to exist, is to prepare civilians for possible military service. With shrinking rural populations, the next generation of shooters is not coming from hunters and outdoorsman, but from the living room Xbox players. Americans need to train like we are going to fight and the NRA and CMP need to change to meet reality and not be focused on “Their Game”.
CMP was not set up to provide “collectors” with firearms. So called collectors are the reason for the tightened rules and increased costs because they were being bought cheap and then sold at inflated prices.
Well I was going to skip these but now that I see all the belly aching here I figure I might have a good shot at a decent 1911. They should have done this with the Garands and Carbines and surplus .30-06 they used to have, it would have squashed the dirty gun show flippers.
After WWII, my father purchased a M1911 for $50. I was in serviceable condition and was fired weekly for over 40 years. A new barrel was the only replacement part needed. Now, we have the CMP getting used M1911’s in order to raise money for their programs. We are not getting any deals from them. Some of the surplus M1911’s have already been “sold” to privileged individuals. Their M1911’s are in near mint condition. Why did our Government by-pass veterans who served our country. I would think that as a “Thank You” for your service, our grateful government would be happy to hand out M1911’s to those veterans who qualify to own weapons in their home states. I would love to follow my father’s lead and get a low-cost or free M1911 after serving my country. So, why did the DoD hand out M1911’s to people who are not veterans? It is because veterans do not give their agencies money…Congress does. Many of the M1911’s have been sent to countries as gifts to officials who we want as friends. If you have to pay someone to like you, you are already screwed! Keep the M1911’s here in the U.S. buy giving them to deserving veterans, especially the veterans who were injured or wounded on active duty. The 100% Disabled Veterans should be the first ones considered for a surplus M1911, before any other REMF.
First line should read: “….It was in serviceable condition….”
Franco, ABSOEFFINGLUTELY correct, and a great idea. This SHOULD be a program offered to qualified military veterans FIRST, at reduced rates, for the very people who trained with them, and used them to defend America and the world, risking their lives to do so. Who makes these idiotic policies? Brainless politicians? The US has already GIVEN foreign nation too many of our firearms. There should be NO foreign buyers of these firearms. The military arms in the CMP program are not costing very much, just maintenance . but it seems that everything is a profit center for the government and the CMP.
There’s the rub. Requirement #2…. 2) proof of membership in a CMP affiliated club. A what???
That’s ridiculous.
As a Vietnam Veteran, and still very distrustful of the US government, the CMP 1911 pistol buy, will just be another example of government and any institution connected in any way with the government to dupe its citizens into thinking that they are going to receive a “really good deal”. Wake up sheetlet, governments do not hand out good deals.
I always thought that the arms , should go to the veterans first, they where trained to use them in the first place.
I’m relying on memory here, but I recall reading an article in GunsAmerica two or three years ago about the sale of surplus 1911’s. The guns were described at that time as mostly being inoperable and in generally poor shape overall. The only redeeming factor was the historical significance attached to them. If I were thinking of buying one, this history factor and the resulting pride of ownership would be the only consideration. The prices should reflect that fact only!
Why a CMP affiliate ?
I do not join groups or clubs— why should I be discriminated against.
I am an American citizen with a CCW and pass NICS. NOTHING nothing else should be needed!!!
I belong to a gun club and and very active in it but I don’t even know if we are a CMP filiated program or not. I wonder how how a club even becomes one???
Is this not discriminating to those of us who do not support the CMP but ,are those who have an excellent record of gun ownership.No bad record of violence of any nature. I think so. Open the sale to all citizens that are able to pass the background check. That would be fair government decision. But we know the past history of our government. Those with the power and the money always come out ahead.
Well the CMP can eat me, I’ve lost all interest. As soon as I saw the requirements for two NICS background checks (waste of money, why is 2 better than 1?) AND complete disregard for the 03 FFL C&R license holders I said to myself FK this. So I can buy any firearm 50+ years or older or on the C&R list with none of this hassle but I get a full cavity seach for a surplus 1911? Come on. Argofkyourselves CMP.
I have two Remington Rand .45’s I’ve had for close to 50 years which were former U.S. Govt. Property issues…I’ll just hang on to them and not try to buy any from the CMP. They are nicer than what I could get from the CMP.
I qualified with these 1911s when I was in the Army. the slides were loose. They were raggety pieces of junk. Accuracy was barn door wide. Save your money and get a new one.
Probably the best place for them to go is into the hands of the law-abiding decent people of Chicago, DC and maybe even New York.
So you think you’ll ever see one from the CMP? Fat chance. Here is how it will really work. There are already a list of over 2,500 people who are friends of congressmen and government people who have allocated them. That was part of the contract to CMP. Didn’t see that, did you? Next, any of them can get up to 10 guns each. Then there are some collectors who paid handsomely to campaigns for favors. Yes, congressmen do favors for people who give them lots of money,
These are all facts. Since the CMP doesn’t have to produce any audit-able records, ……. That’s why they got the gig. Again, these are the facts. Don’t blame the CMP, it is your congress in action.
Bravo.
Just the simple fact that CMP is mandating Class 01 FFL participation will keep me away. What was the sense of getting my 03 FFL when the same gov’t that issued it to me won’t accept it back? The ridiculous prices they are certain to ask for these just makes the decision easier.
Seems there’s no winning in the comments section. Complaints previously were that dealers would scoop these up immediately, but now that the rules will prevent that, complaints are that it’s too difficult to order.
What is your time worth? I jumped through hoops before for the M1G 25 years ago…
Also I’ve said this before, WE the people have already “paid” for these guns. They should be priced only at the cost of administration. Maybe $100. Period.
Agreed!!
I hate the CMP.
There is a “change 2” out. (I received it shortly after the first email)
In item 3. it deletes item “5)” and adds a new item 4. Then renumbers the remaining items.
The new item 4 reads,
“4. A NICS background check will be performed by CMP on the customer to assure the customer is eligible to purchase prior to shipment to the FFL licensed dealer. The customer must receive a “proceed” from NICS prior to shipment of the pistol to the FFL licensed dealer.”
So does this mean that the 3 day “Brady Wait” does not apply? A ton of checks are delayed, especially, if you happen to be named “John Smith”. Normally if you are not denied within 3 business days, the dealer is allowed to go through with the sale, so is the CMP abiding by that rule and being more stringent?
Bullshit.
Too many regs.
This is a bullshit deal
Just the insiders will get them and I agree with Sepp W there probably all thrown in bins
Be just like all the surplus Jeeps back in the 70’s I never seen one of those either
The pistols are likely well worn; sloppy slides, Bakelite grip panels, and pretty beat up. There will likely be pistols made by Colt, Springfield, and Remington in the lot. Probably refurbed at depot at some point. Could have been part of foreign military sales or loaners.
The potential process seems pretty onerous to secure one.
CMP has made it more difficult to buy surplus weapons for some reason. I bought a couple of field-grade M1s about 20 years ago and it was pretty straight forward.
All the 1911s I was assigned when on active duty was pretty ragged, but did function. I wonder how they’ll price them? Frankly not a one would be worth more than a couple of hundred dollars unless they have a few that was never issued or was issued to some notable military figure. However, I bet they’ll price not less than $1000 and go up based on how CMP grades weapons.
All so true
Because CMP was being abused by greedy folks who would buy a dozen Garands for $300.00 each and then turn around and sell them for $800.00. They finally wised up. Don’t like the price or quality of the firearm? Simple solution, don’t buy one!
So you have to be part of the CMP and participate in their programs? Reeks of discrimination! Lots of bullshit rules.
It’s actually a bit easier than it sounds. Lots of organizations are affiliated with the CMP, and you might already be a member of one (VFW, National Guard, lots of law enforcement associations). And proving participation in a marksmanship activity is as easy as showing them your concealed carry license.
This page is pretty helpful: http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/eligibility-requirements/
Nothing easy about “random” when 10,000 winners hope they get a nice one
So my DD214 will say I am a member.
Oh and my hunters safety certificate I got 40 years ago. Then my CCL should cover the rest.
i love to own one !
I have to say, I’d love to own one for its historic and patriotic value as well as the rich heritage of the 1911 itself. But I was exhausted and discouraged after reading halfway through the process steps. And what’s worse, in reality most of those guns will never see the hands of regular folks that would just appreciate having them. Strings will be pulled, and favors will be granted. Just my opinion.
Agreed…Maybe better luck finding a nicer one at a gun show without paperwork ….the pricing is what’s the “x” factor as well…and the bottom line criteria “random”…means good luck!
A most cumbersome and ludicrous process. 2 NICS checks. One just to get in the lottery. Bullshit rules. Should be no harder than a mail order Gun buy from dealers.
I agree, more trouble than it’s worth.
Well there’s one less person I don’t have to worry about in the first pool of 10,000. The process really isn’t as difficult as it sounds but to each his own. Agree on pricing though, these pistols are most likely very well used. I hope pricing reflects that.
Come on man, the process sucks. I got my 03 FFL years ago to avoid shit like this. Good luck to you. For me, all this red tape, plus a $1k price tag for a used and abused 1911, no thanks.