Alan Korwin, visit his website GunLaws.com.
It never ceases to amaze how quickly police and their supporters insist they would never do anything that violated the Constitution or our rights. If push came to shove they would stand with the people, defy authoritarian rule, block any attempt to implement illegal orders, and be the force for good and justice we would all hope they would be. They would never summarily confiscate our guns, that’s for sure!
Are there any examples of this? Or is this just lip service that sounds good and all the examples are the exact opposite? Does every case have “extenuating circumstances” that justify illegal entry, confiscating property, disarming the innocent, and gun confiscation at the slightest provocation? You can tell those questions are rhetorical. The answers are bad bad bad.
The Katrina storm is the classic example. Civil order breaks down, police don’t protect the area—they high tail it out of there—leaving people to defend themselves. To help, police “announce” with no due process and no legitimate authority, “No one will be able to be armed,” and, “Guns will be taken. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns.” (New Orleans Superintendent P. Edwin Compass). He is never prosecuted for violation of his oath.
Anyone found with a gun had it confiscated, at gunpoint, and the stolen property was kept, much of it damaged, returned grudgingly years later. Just doin’ our job, ma’am.
Just when you need it most, when the only one around to protect you is you, your protectors decide you must be persecuted. Not a single officer stands up against this outrageous friendly power grab. People still cling to the myth of police protection.
Fast forward to the Boston bomber. The presence of two misguided youngsters on the loose, having perpetrated a horrific act of muslim jihad, justifies warrantless military-style searches of residential homes. Terrified residents are ousted, barely dressed, as storm-troop-clad “police” rush in, without specific probable cause, to find nothing. With such dangerous heathens on the loose it is justified, and the “news” confirms this, repeatedly, non-stop. The one perp still alive is found, not from police work, thanks to a resident’s tip.
OK, those examples are stark and don’t count. Along with all the other similar stark examples. We have to stay safe, right? Police must act that way in violation of the 2nd Amendment, the 4th Amendment, the 5th Amendment and every sort of decency you expect during civilized times. As soon as trouble strikes, all bets are off.
Declaring Contraband
But what about when legal property you own is suddenly declared illegal? Does this really justify police raids to confiscate it? Can Congress, or your state legislature, or anyone really, legitimately declare your legal stuff illegal?
If they do, is this a grant of power to Officer Friendly to invade your home and take your stuff? And will the officer? Isn’t this the bright red line where Officer Friendly stands firm, saying, “I swore an oath and I’m not going to take stuff from my neighbor, that he was free to own yesterday. I’m standing up for America and our rights, just like I said I would in the opening paragraph!”
(Photo: Liberty News)
Sorry folks, it don’t work that way. Despite the bluster, when New York State decides you can only have a seven-round magazine, every other magazine you own becomes contraband, and there isn’t an officer on the force who, independently, decides, “I’m going to compromise my job, violate my superior’s orders, sacrifice the pension I’ve slaved for and go to prison, by disobeying a direct order, and refuse to enforce ‘the law.’ It’s the law now. I will follow orders. These things are contraband.” California the same.
That’s how your guns get confiscated. They do it “legally.” By the book. And you cooperate—or use the front end of your guns for their intended purpose, resist tyranny, and give up your guns from your cold dead fingers, news at five.
Politicians—ones you actually elect—pass a law to outlaw your stuff, and their loyal police obey and take your stuff. If they miss something, you are left in possession of contraband, subject to felony arrest and imprisonment for having it. You can’t take it to the range, have it fixed by a gunsmith, sell it, show it to friends, nothing. Wait—I hear a knock at the door now.
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More articles in this series:
- Gun Myths Just Keep Coming
- America’s Real Gun Problem — The Progressive’s Gun Myths
- The Loophole Australia and Junk-Gun Myths
- The Guns-Are-Dangerous Myth
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Alan Korwin’s website features plain-English books on state and federal gun laws for the public, and more common sense like you just read. He invites you to write to him or see his work, at GunLaws.com, where you can get his 14 books, like After You Shoot, and DVDs that help keep you safe.
Alan Korwin, Publisher, Bloomfield Press, “We publish the gun laws.”
4848 E. Cactus, #505-440, Scottsdale, AZ 85254
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“Don’t be a spectator in the struggle to preserve freedom.”
Cops show up at your house to confiscate your firearms. You tell them they have no legal right to take them. They say they have a warrant and the “legal right”. There’s a shootout. Whether there is a death or not, in the media today, the headline would go something like this:
Crazed Gunowner Has Shootout With Police over Search Warrant of Illegal Contraband. Multiple firearms and thousands of rounds of ammo seized.
I used to be a police officer and an Army Officer. In most instances confisgation will be exceptionally easy. The bigger the talk the lesser the action. But with those quiet and non-boastful owners, oh my goodness!
The point as I see it,is the cops feel an obligation to obey superiors. The superiors feel an obligation to obey simple minded
corrupt, anti-constitutional politicians. To kill a snake and his ambition to bite you,the head is the focus point.
The police will just be a tool,not the cause.
As we taught the Europeans in WWII (and supported them by dropping “Liberator” pistols)…if you have no gun, just kill the policeman or military troop who is armed…and you will now be armed. It’s a very simple solution to a problem. It’s a thought police and military members should remember if they start acting like Nazi’s or communists. They will be alone with no friends.
Everyone THINKS they have rights….LMAO!!! In case you have noticed You have NO RIGHTS. Never did. They are a temporary list of privileges. Today all you hear about are people yammering about their RIGHTS…..I hate to spoil your fun but you HAVE NO RIGHTS. They are make believe, like the boogey man Santa Clause and little green men from Mars. They don’t exist. What we all have is a temporary list of PRIVELDGES in this country, that can be taken away anytime the government wants to, for any reason they dictate when it suits their at time present agenda. If you want to talk about rights look up Japanese Americans in Wikipedia and read all about your precious F__IN rights..End of History Lesson Ladies
Actually, YOU are the one who isn’t thinking. You came into this world with two rights, the right to survive and the right to use your body and brain to do so. As a baby that was limited, but nature or God provided you with parents maybe who gave you a chance to grow and become an adult. Now, you have the right to do anything you want. What you have to consider, are the consequences of availing yourself of those rights. That’s all! It’s really just a question of what you think you’ll get in pain or reward if you do what it is that you want to do. Smart humans realize that cooperation brings better results than just going around causing mayhem to get what you want. Being “good” is better than being “evil” because the above consequences ARE what created the words, “good” and “evil”. If there is a God (and my experiments on the subject have proven positive for me) then the longevity of the good rewards and the evil bad consequences are extended even beyond this life which means that even in a survival situation I will choose an imperative for good beyond this life and while in this life. This is the basis for higher morals. That doesn’t mean that I will sacrifice myself for nothing. Those “God Given” rights might mean losing my life. I believe that those rights can only be perpetrated to my earthly posterity if I choose not to sell them by cowardice. Otherwise I bequeath my children with more misery that I had. Thus fighting to survive, or fighting for “good” rights is a wise and desirable thing! One also has the right (remember a right is really just the ability) to Murder, Rape and Plunder, but these I would call bad or evil rights, because the consequences both in this life and especially the next are not desirable in the long run. This is why societies and then Governments try to preserve the “good” rights, because the consequences of doing so are good. When a Government over-powers it’s society and begins to provide it’s own negative consequences for “good” rights, then that Government has become “bad/evil” and will cause long term damage. It is wiser for people to fix this earlier than later, as the bad will just get worse. But since this fixing almost always means death is one of the consequences, and death is usually a bad consequence, the people of a society are less anxious to “go there”. Also the less moral understanding the society has, the less likely they are to re-establish those good rights even at the risk of death. But, eventually, it always comes around that it must be done, and then the cost of good rights clashes with the consequences of bad rights. And so it goes!
No way police can confiscate a hundred million guns in this country. They do not have the manpower to go door to door all day and night. They all know many citizens will shoot if cops show up demanding guns. As for pensions, in my state at least, a cop can be outright fired and they still can’t take his/her pension. Fear mongering will not change the fact that it’s the vote that holds power. Cops would have to walk through millions of doors. We only have to walk through one…the polling place.
No, it is NOT the “vote” that holds power… it is the one who COUNTS those “votes” who wields the power!
Police officers are just people also. Some good, some bad, and in between just like other people. The vast majority will obey orders from higher ups. After all-these are legal orders for temporary only control-right? Nobody wants to lose their job and means to make a living. Even the ones who disagree with higher ups. And in the backs of police officers minds is the thought that they will still have their guns and will protect us. After all they are the police sworn to protect us. The badge has made them privileged citizens mightier than the regular Joe. They were told to confiscate guns temporarily after Katrina so they did. Against the constitution, but their superiors said it was OK and they got to keep their own guns to protect themselves. Just like if guns are outlawed their will be another group that will have guns when Joe Average America does not: that will of course be the criminals who don’t obey any law, except survival of the ones with the guns. An organized group will eventually and always overcome an individual. How does one law abiding citizen face a half dozen “good” police at their door to confiscate their guns? Not going to keep your guns unless you die for them. And then your family suffers. Our best way to protect our Constitutional rights is to campaign for and elect people that also believe our Founding Fathers knew what they were talking about 240 years ago. I think the government should pass a law that mandates that police officers store their weapons at the police station and can only possess them when they report in for duty. No weapons at home. I think that would clarify the minds of all police officers (and judges, and legislators) about gun confiscation. It would equally apply to them. No government elites. Government by the people, of the people, for the people. All the people.
I\’m retired military and was one of the founding members of an organization based on the premise that military and LEO\’s all took an oath to protect and defend the constitution. Back in the beginning days of the organization our mission was to reach, teach, and inspire active duty military and law enforcement to join and do exactly what they pledged to do when they took the oath. In my time with that organization I met a police officer from a college town in PA who refused to obey an order to stop a group of young christian students from handing out brochures, singing, and praying in a public area. He believed he was standing up for their right to free speech. However, his superiors didn\’t see it that way. Needless to say he endured a host of harassment including trying to fire him. Fortunately the union saved his job, but at what cost. For the duration I was in contact with him he never really got his job back. He was assigned a desk job and given all the dirty work. Last we spoke he was still involved in litigation with the city over keeping his job. There are those men and women of principle that will take their oath to heart and die first before breaking their sworn duty. But they are the minority in the practical world. I have to agree that we have a duty to ourselves to be active and campaign for the candidates that believe as we do and do our best to keep the Hillary Clinton\’s of the world out of office.
Tyranny has arrived. This disarming free people is prima facie tyranny and a revolt/revolution is 100% justified.
Time has run out on those choosing treason.
I served 22 years in the U S Army and spent a total of four of those years in the U S. I signed a blank check payable up to and including my life and that check has not been cashed yet. If and when our government desides to confiscate the firearms of lawabiding people in this country I feel that I will be within my rights to defend my country against all enemyS foreign and domestic. The government WILL take my guns but not before they CASH THAT CHECK. As always the old firstsoldier L K Johnson 1st sgt U S Army Ret.
NO ONE CAN TOP THIS STATEMENT MADE BY L. K. JOHNSON!! CONGRATULATIONS MY FRIEND, YOU HAVE MY VOTE, AS WELL AS MY SUPPORT!!!!!!!!!
Captured by a citizen’s tip, not by police work ignores the fact that immense police pressure had something to do with the perp seeking a hiding place in a boat in a back yard and being discovered. Illegal entry of police into a home could have resulted in discovery of the perp holding the homeowner hostage. Then there would be another untold story. Or the discovery of another bomb about to be used on more citizens. When police get fed up and stop doing the job that people don’t like, we will all be much safer, won’t we.
Walter, the truth is the truth, we watched it unfold on National News, live. Kicking peoples’ doors in, searching room to room, families being told to get out in the front yard (and even cases of them being ordered to lay prostrate, face down, hands behind heads), where EVERY Bostonian was treated like a criminal and their homes searched, room by room. IF Mass. didn’t have such restrictive gun laws, more than likely the Cznarev Brothers could have more likely been shot much sooner, by those innocent (UNARMED) bystanders who either gave the tips that found the first (& eldest) who died in a hail of (police) gunfire, actually being driven over by his younger brother escaping the gunfire, and the younger could/would have been HELD AT GUNPOINT (at worst) by an ARMED Boat (& GUN Owning) home owner who realized the dirtbag was hiding in his boat. Instead, we had martial law, and no one had ANY Rights whatsoever, where the search was on and Constitution be damned. The Police won’t keep You safe. Just ask 50+ Dead and 53 Wounded caught in the PULSE Club last night here in (Orlando), Florida. Worst Islamic Radical Terrorist Act on American Soil since 9-11; oh yes, and there WAS an off duty OPD Officer at the FRONT DOOR. 2 More OC Deputies responded to his call for assistance almost immediately….then all 3 withdrew, leaving lots of hostages to become victims of a Terrorist, Home Grown Islamic Shooter who could KILL with impunity for HOURS….because no one else inside, not a single soul, was allowed to enter with any method of self defense. Florida Concealed Carry Law restricts CWP holders from entering BARS with their weapon. Even those who COULD Carry, couldn’t do so in a bar, so they just got to be more, unarmed, victims; hunted down and shot, one at a time, for over 3 HOURS. Law Enforcement has NO Obligation to protect YOU when THEIR life (or lives) are endangered. Don’t Kid Yourself. When it comes to You or them, they want to go home to the wife/husband & kids too, no brainer. The Bostonians forgot their Heritage of Lexington & Concord. Most of the rest of us who knew our history stood in disbelief while we watched the swat teams bashing in their doors, and ripping people from their homes in neighborhoods, MILES from where the dirtbag was taken in to custody. So Yes, when (not if) the Cops stop doing their job, (because that too, is predictable as sunrise), and decide their going to do a ‘different’ job (You know, Disarming the ignorant ‘masses’), we will not go quietly. We will not lie down. WE (I & mine) will announce that there is NOTHING and NOBODY in this house that YOU are looking for and without a WARRANT, we will SHOOT YOU, badge(s) or not. We’ll even ask IF they have the Constitutional Authority to Enter Our Home withOUT that Warrant…..shut up. Next person who speaks, loses, even with “martial law”. They’ll KNOW they are breaking the law they swore to uphold. Let’s see Who’s willing to DIE for OUR Guns….because the Tree of Liberty needs Occasional watering…with both the Blood of Tyrants and PATRIOTS. So Said Thomas Jefferson and the words are more true today than most. Talk is cheap, Security and Freedom ain’t. If You aren’t willing to DIE Defending it, You ALREADY Surrendered It.
Actually, after Katrina and the Boston bombing. It was all just so they could see how people would really react and put a game plan together. So when confiscation happens, they will be better prepared for how people will react.
You’re correct, Walter. ” Illegal entry of police into a home could have resulted in discovery of the perp holding the homeowner hostage. ”
Just as in the desert and Central Valley illegal entry into a home could uncover a meth lab. MAYBE the cops could find a felon with contraband, a pot grow, a cock fighting operation, illegal gambling, etc. By your misguided “logic” the cops illegally kicking in doors because they MIGHT find something is fine. If you really believe that, move to China, Cuba, Venezuela or Russia. You don’t deserve to live in the United States and have any protection under our Bill of Rights.
FOURTH AMENDMENT
The right of the people to be secure in their persons,
houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and
seizures, shall not be violated; and no Warrants shall issue but
upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and
particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons
or things to be seized.
Just like in the military, cops follow orders. They aren’t going to disobey an order to confiscate YOUR gun because taking it flies in the face of your 2nd Amendment rights. They would be fired/suspended probably without pay if caught. You think they are going to deprive their families of their needed paycheck because YOU are being deprived of your rights?
That is why it is best to hide some of your guns. Inside a hollowed-out portion of a cabinet or buried in the backyard (they make receptacles for this you can buy for cheap). Keep them at grandma’s house in a basement safe.
If cops demand the weapons you bought tell them you sold them via an online site. There is no requirement for you to keep a record of gun sales. You aren’t an FFL. Or tell them you gave them away or sold them to friends who have since moved to Florida, Idaho, etc. You don’t have Tom Williams nor Jim Smith’s current address.
Don’t answer the door when they knock. If they break down your door without a warrant hire a lawyer and sue them.
But back to the article…I’m in total agreement the cops are going to follow orders and grab your guns if they can find them.
Don’t trust anybody. It’s like with growing pot…if two people know about it that’s one person too many.
My nephew and I were just discussing this the other day. In case you don’t realize it when the military are sworn in they are under that Military Code of Conduct not the Constitution. They surrender their Constitutional rights and obligations when they take the oath. Scary isn’t it but it is the truth. If they fail to carry our an order from a superior officer (the Commander-In-Chief) they can be court marshaled and put in prison. So in a national or state crisis you are responsible for your safety and freedom, not the police or any other enforcement authority.
Three words… Posse Comitatus Act. Look it up!
People forget that many gun owners are dependent on Social Security and Disability making it easy to confiscate their guns.
No cop knocking banging at your door, a mailman will do the dirty work.
Obama can get their guns with a stroke of his pen, Don’t turn in your guns, you don’t get a check.
Just the guns from the retired and disabled would be a significant amount.
My view, if the government wants ALL guns off the street, first take it from those who own them illegally.
Disarm the gangbangers in the city, start with those who commit crimes.
Clean the streets first and you will learn that not all gun owners are a threat to your life and safety, but are actually a security benefit.
This is why Guns America needs to inform it’s Members to Vote Libertarian! The Libertarian Party is THE ONLY PARTY that will bend over backwards to assure this type thing doesn’t happen to our 2nd Amendment Rights, as well as all the others! Most recently, too many Republicans have been cow-towing to the Gun-Grabbers and clearly, they can no longer be depended on!
As much as I agree 100% with the Libertarian platform, the reality is, voting for the Libertarian candidate is the same as voting for the Democrat gun grabber. Because you deny the Republican your vote, it’s a +1 for the Democrat. Libertarians are just not ever going to win.
And that is exactly the attitude that results in the continued presentation of two horrible idiots, one of which will be your president. Until the American people can throw off the yoke of the two party system there is no such thing as democracy.
Democracy:2 Wolves And A Sheep Voting On What’s For Dinner.
The Founding Fathers were very wise men. That is why we were structured as a Republic. Too bad for us that our liberties have been stolen by a perverted government with 2 parties that aren’t much different from one another. Thomas Jefferson’s tree is getting very parched.
Scott, although you’re closer than most and your most compelling argument is the observation that Police Officers do not operate as a homogeneous group, it is still off target a bit. Although Law Enforcement agencies tend to draw from the community, larger cities tend to draw from all over their regions and the country. Because of that, you get a mix of conservative and liberal values. These values and other factors tend to shape how an officer will use discretion when enforcing the laws. Even ones that we may feel violate our Constitutional rights.
I work for a city that tends to be split down the middle politically. I also have friends that work for and have worked closely with officer from VERY liberal areas run by leaders that are overtly anti-Second Amendment. The one constant is that those officer, the longer they are on the job, become more conservative even if they didn’t start out that way. There’s no substitute for experience. As such, they tend to be more pro-Second Amendment. Now, I have never been a part of nor have I heard of mass gun round-ups. We’re not there yet and IF we ever get there, there’s going to be a real schism with the pro-Second cops being the majority. As such, you could guess which side of discretion they’d be on. The only guns I’ve ever had to take were from people that were felons or committed crimes. Now, I’m sure there are examples where good folks had their guns taken for whatever reason, justified or not, but these examples are the exception and not the rule.
For those that believe there are insidious plans to confiscate all guns and leave people defenseless, hogwash! They are giving L.E. And our elected dictators too much credit. That might be on some Liberals’ wish lists, but not attainable. Most Agencies, at least in CA are having a hard enough time keeping crooks in jail, let alone have time to hatch schemes to kick in doors and confiscate “illegal” weapons.
In a final note, I find this observation telling. Because of recent law changes in CA that are driving up the crime rate, people are starting to realize that the police can’t be everywhere to protect them and they are being victimized at a higher and higher rate. This has the effect of making liberal anti-gun folks rethink their stances. It’s a start and the more victimization there is, the more there will be a cry for self defense. Liberal thought is going to be crushed by the very crime it created. The saying goes that, ” a Liberal is a Conservative that hasn’t been a victim yet.”
“These values and other factors tend to shape how an officer will use discretion when enforcing the laws. Even ones that we may feel violate our Constitutional rights.”
There is no question that citizens’ rights were violated when the cops went around kicking in doors because a criminal MIGHT be inside. There is no question that citizens’ rights were violated when the cops went around kicking in doors and confiscating legally owned firearms. These acts are direct violations of our Constitution, not some acts that some people might “feel” are violations. Illegally invading homes isn’t using “discretion when enforcing the laws.” It is an assault on our Bill of Rights and our citizens.
As a California native and resident for over 60 years, I am fed up with this cesspool and moving to Arizona. The crime rate is rising here because of politicians like Moonbeam Brown and Ghost Gun de Leon trying to disarm law-abiding citizens, while they’re enacting idiotic laws like AB109. Their thinking is that it’s better to let criminals out of prison so they can create more victims because it costs too much to lock them up. That is lunacy and not in the best interests of the public. I worked most of the last 22 years in a CA state prison. Inmates are criminals, and criminals rarely change their ways.
I think a lot of the results has to do with what police department you are dealing with. If located in a leftist enclave of gun grabbing & other Constitutional rights violating then you can probably expect the police to continue to do what the chief & city fathers tell them to do. This is just another reason to never live in any big city & most certainly not in one of those that has been run by leftist Dems for decades.
AMEN. I live in So Cal and right now the State Legislature has a bevy of gun grabbing and ammo grabbing bills working their way through the legislature. All of them have passed through committee and at least one house. Should Gov. Moonbeam sign them it will be illegal to own any semi auto rifle in the state or any magazine over 10 rounds including those previously grandfathered. You will not be able to purchase ammo online, out of state or without being fingerprinted and registering for $50 a year. Mere possession of unregistered ammo will land you in jail. This batch of laws is the last straw for me, if they get signed into law, I will be shutting down my businesses here and laying off all my employees moving to my home in Scottsdale permanently. The Democrats have destroyed this state.
You say the democrats have destroyed this State…meaning OF COURSE Kaliforniastan. In that statement you are absolutely 1000% correct, but then, the leftist/liberal/democrat/communist/socialist/Marxist/pacifist/Fascist/appeasing scumbags that make up that political mindset DESTROYS EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING GOOD OR MORAL THAT THEY COME IN CONTACT WITH!
The premise to Korwin’s piece and most of the responses are flawed. The flaw is the supposition that police forces and police officers are monolithic. There is a continuum of response towards gun confiscation that will occur. There are two forces that drive this response: Community/Local Political Culture and officers’ personnel beliefs. First off, all cities large size, of 500k+ (with some exception in the south) are liberal. Their governments’ political stances are anti-gun and use any excuse to implement a political agenda to instill cultural values in contravention of established law (2A). Katriina and Boston Bombers are perfect examples of this cultural set. The rural, sub 500k populace, populations have a rural mind set directed towards conservatism and are more mindful of laws. These are the locales that embrace their citizenry’s defense rights. Bottom line, the liberal or conservative nature of your city or town’s demographics, to a great extent, will determine to the larger extent of whether gun confiscation will be implemented.
The second driver is a police officer’s personal belief system. In larger liberal population centers, the police forces draw from and populate their police forces with citizenry from that area and are thus imbued with anti-gun sentiments, so they will have no problem enforcing illegal orders because they conform to local political culture which in turn shaped their personal beliefs. Vice versa for sub 500k townships and cities. This sets the trend for police officer bias towards illegal gun confiscation orders, but just like police forces there is a continuum personal responses so some officers will be conflicted in executing illegal confiscation orders and resist in fully implementing confiscation. (Note the use of the word fully, if other officers are present, they will in all likelihood comply passively with confiscation orders, while alone they may be inclined to let it slide.)
To compound the second driver, studies have shown that there are 4 major reasons why police officers engage in police work. The first and largest group are those that want to help others, the second group are those that want law and order, the third do so because of family tradition, and the fourth group do so for financial reasons. Each of these subsets will have biases towards implementing illegal orders.
Bottom line: if you live in a city or town with a liberal culture and are approached by more than one officer, chances are exceedingly high, illegal gun confiscation orders will be implemented.
I live in eastern Tennessee and know several police officers, one a police chief. He has stated that if the powers that be ever order gun confiscation he will resign because he knows there will be blood running in the streets and the police will lose. Same with a sheriff’s deputy and a state police officer. They are not scared of criminals necessarily, they are scared of the corrupt politicians who think they are above the law and the Constitution. Classic examples: Hillary and Obama.
I saw a photo not long ago of some state sponsored murder of a bunch of people. There was a man, Asian I think, kneeling at the edge of a large hole in the ground. Visible were arms and legs and hair — clearly it was a mass grave. The man was staring down into the hole, presumably at his family, neighbors, friends. Behind him were men in uniform, some standing around a vehicle in the background, one in the foreground with a rifle leveled at the kneeling man. It was the kind of photograph that, if you have an empathetic bone in your body, chills you to your core and etches itself into your memory.
The first time I saw that image — and every time I see it in my mind’s eye — I decided that I would never be the man kneeling at the edge of a hole in the ground, staring at the lifeless faces of my murdered loved ones while I await my own bullet. The very first step down that road is when men come to disarm me. That will never, ever happen.
You hear a lot of bluster about dying in a pile of brass and it’s easy to dismiss. They’ll get the bullets first, right? “Yeah right, if the time comes you’ll puss out and hand em over”. Well, you best believe that there are many men in this country that would rather die than be defenseless and at the mercy of whomever wishes to do them and their families harm. An order to disarm would be no less than a declaration of civil war. It may be a war that we would lose, and it would most likely be a war that I would not see the end of, but it is a war that I would fight. In the end, I would not die for some intangible ideal. I would die for my family.
Well put, Josh. There is no more worthwhile reason to die than defending God, country & family. Be safe out there & keep them clean, loaded & handy.
You too, bud.
Good for you Josh but the ones that propagate the confiscation of arms had better remember that we have some 50 million gun owners who are family people who know how to shoot better than most military military or police officers. And we know the territories we live in. Do they? Do they want to face us? Only a fool would do that.
I don’t care if I’m 80 years old when it comes, no man will take my means of self defense, my life, my family’s or friends as long as I am breathing!
I have said this for years. No one wants to listen. I cant tell you how many people have laughed at me. Im crazy “The military and police will not turn on us”
Bull H crap they wouldn’t. Some may not. Some states may resist and some counties may resist but how llng would a local sheriff hold out against the state police, federal agencies, AND the military?
I DO believe that an attempt to overturn the second amendment would cause some states to rebel leading to a possible second civil war but thats our only real choice IF things got to that point
the police will come for your guns. you can bet your life on that. they will come because the traitors tell the local police tho get your gun will kill those who do not obey their orders. the rest will fall into line right then and there. so don’t think because your neighbor is a cop that he will not come for your gun. and when he comes for your gun he is coming for you too. you will be taken into custody and probably be killed soon after. this will be a war and your best contribution i think will be to give those who come for your gun the bullets first. as charlton heston said they can have my gun when they pry it from my cold dead hands. he was a man and he knew what the future held. do you?
Over the long years of watching the anti-gun craze rolling onward pushed by so called progressives (pinkos) who have an agenda for America that I will not live under, thankfully I’m getting old and likely won’t see it, well I wouldn’t have but since it looks likely that Klinton will get her fat ass into the white house I see it coming full steam right at me.
So here’s my $0.02 worth, buy now, buy all you can, stack it high and prepare, unless you are the type to meekly hand over your freedom in which case stop buying, leave that to those of us who won’t cave in, I fully understand that a man with a wife and kids to feed and shelter would likely stop and say what choice do I have, I really do understand that.
For the rest, now, not next week is the time to be buying, it you wait I can assure you there will be a nasty mass shooting right after Klinton takes office, it will be the worse yet and the rest will be history and you won’t be able to buy anything.
When Oblowme was running against Klinton I saw the hand writing on the wall and out of fear, not actual knowledge but fear I went to my local WM and had the dept manager of the sporting goods section order me five cases of 22 LR, I think I paid around $13.00 per brick at 10 bricks to the case, as we all know 22 LR later became almost impossible to find and had been priced very high. All I’m saying is that for once in my life I was ahead of the curve, not out of smartness but more out of paranoia.
All this to say, IF you are truly on of the 3% who will actually fight then now is the time to prepare, actually ten years ago was time but… regardless, do it now or never.
This guy is simply anti-police. I am a retired Police Officer and no I will not give up my firearms, period. I do not believe in confiscation of weapons and 90% or better of Officers I know feel the same and will not take firearms from decent citizens. If they did then they would have to turn in their own privately owned firearms in and the firearms of their family, friends, and neighbors and that simply is not going to happen.
Agreed. It always pisses me off when someone presumes to speak for the actions or intent of law enforcement. I, too am retired LE after 37 years. I did not spend my career finding ways to violate the Constitutional rights of the people I dealt with daily.
Jim: I think it’s great that you’d give up your job, pension, benefits, and potentially freedom for your principles. I think it’s really great that 90% of the officers you know feel the same. The only problem I see with that outlook is that how people feel is very often entirely different from what they will actually do when push comes to shove. It’s either that, or you don’t actually know many police officers. Mind you, I’m not bashing cops, I’m saying that they’re people, just like everyone else. Want proof? Do a quick search for “Stanley Milgram Experiment”. Want more proof? Take a look at the examples the author gave. When your belief system clashes with observable reality, you need to re-consider your beliefs.
Sir,
With all due respect to you and your fellow officers, your wrong.
YOU may not come but those rookies who have been indoctrinated in the public school system will. They will be ordered by that “asshat” superior who votes democrat and has a chip on his shoulder ( you all know the one or two in your depts like that)
He will do so right after the chief who reists is either shot or taken into custody.
I dont hate cops, i know a lot of them the majority mean well and are doing a tough dangerous job as best as they can. But there are those who think that piece of silver tin on their chest will stop a .50 BMG round.
The older officers will be retired out and the yoing ones will do as ordered
One thing that is never mentioned.
The SCOTUS ruled that ” There is no presumption of protection for civilians by police ”
The police are under no obligation to protect you or your family. 90% of tge time they are there to clean up the bodies and try to catch the person who are responsible.
I have great respect for police but they WILL enforce the law.
The Nazi’s used “blocking divisions” to shoot any German soldier not following orders to exterminate fellow humans. Don’t put it past Democrats to use similar tactics in a mass gun confiscation. It would certainly turn into a shooting war. California is in the midst of passing laws right now that will potentially require all semi auto rifles be turned in… the clueless Democrats have no idea what they are starting. In New York they passed laws a few years ago to ban semi autos and only got about 20% compliance… There will literally be a million people who won’t comply, thus becoming felons overnight. Armed Felons.
LA Billyboy, I live in the People’s Republic of New York. Governor Andrew Cuomo initiated and got passed the New York State S.A.F.E. Act gun law. One part of that law mandated that anyone owning an AR15 type rifle had to register it just like a handgun. Such rifles cannot be sold in New York State. One cannot sell his grandfathered AR15 to a family relative or even give it to that relative. When the AR15 owner dies, his estate executor must surrender the AR15 to the State Police for destruction. That law also required anyone wishing to buy even a small box of .22 caliber rimfire ammunition to pass a NICS check first.
There are other requirements in this gun law that are just as onerous. However, most of the county Sheriffs signed a letter to Governor Cuomo flatly refusing to enforce the S.A.F.E. act passed January, 2013. They based their refusal on the lack of state provided money to hire the additional deputies needed to enforce the provisions of that law. Yeah, it was just a way to legally tell Cuomo to roll up that law and stuff his law in his ear.
I have talked to some of the state troopers on an individual basis and all of them were reluctant to enforce the S.A.F.E. gun law. Never the less, they said if two state troopers observed a state resident shooting an unregistered AR15 at a gun club, they would arrest that person. It is a felony to possess an unregistered AR15 in New York State.
I know many members of my rod and gun club that drive to Pennsylvania to buy ammunition so that the good bureaucrats in Albany, New York can’t find out that they have such anti-social material. Since I am a fisherman and don’t have any guns, this law doesn’t affect me. I did have a firearm in the past but I lost it in a boating mishap. Dear readers, you believe that don’t you?
I doesn’t even take a natural disaster to get your “stuff” confiscated. Just google “Civil Asset Forfeiture laws by state” and check it out. There are many agencies in many states doing it now…
Police enforce all laws.But, the laws that get talked about at roll call are the ones that stick in their minds. Many LEs do not like to make traffic stops unless there is a flagrant violation. They make the stops because they are told to slow traffic down on a certain route.
Vice officers will arrest the old men playing chess for a dollar a game, they do so because they are told to do it. They have a thankless job, but they are there to do the mayor’s or govenor’s bidding. That is politics, they won’t last long in the force if they do not do as they are told.
The police around here (Oldham County, KY) have for years confiscated guns from folks. Examples being traffic stops and any other occasion they have to interact with the public. It is also surprising how many guns are not returned. I find this disgusting and an indicator of what we have to look forward to if the SHTF.
My brother in law is a Captain in a major KS sheriff’s office. We have spoken of this many times over the last few years. It is HIS opinion, and that of his men, that a job or pension is of no use if you can not collect on them.
A person once asked him if he thought a civilian would actually shoot him, or one of his men for trying to confiscate their guns, if they would do that to a friend or person they knew? His response was, “you try to take a man’s guns, they no longer consider you a friend!” His department would never even try it. Like he said, “he can get a new job but he can’t get a new life.”
Myself, I honestly don’t know how many police departments would be willing to risk their lives on such a fools errand? I would hope not many. I for one Pray we will never have to find out the answer to that question.
It’s unrealistic… now if a felon is holed up in a house with a pistol… they roll out 100 officers, armored vehicles, SWAT… what are they going to do when they have a million armed homes to raid to take away guns? No single cop is going to go door knocking asking for guns…
Thanks for validating what I have been espousing on Guns America for a long while. Every time I talk about how the authorities WILL bring about confiscation during civil unrest, I get guffawed at by folks here who are confident that I cannot, and never will happen in the U.S.A. Wake up, and be prepared people.
Should gun confiscation become a reality, an effective response that may walk the line legally and ethically would be for citizens to organize a campaign of “call 911 for anything” I.E. “I heard a noise outside; call 911”. “I thought I saw someone acting suspiciously on my property”; call 911″. “I saw someone with a pry bar near my shed; call 911” etc. etc. etc. The police that willfully violated your rights are now put in a position to judge and prioritize urgency. All it will take is one assault or murder when the police judge the threat to be low priority. Don’t give me all this support the police crap; they just stole your private property and crapped on your rights arbitrarily and absent due process. It’s time to make there shift a non stop nightmare.
Well said, sir! By agreeing to disarm the citizens they are sworn to protect, law enforcement officers would assume ALL liability for their safety, regardless of how minor. You would think officers would want as many peaceful, trained, law abiding citizens as possible in their town!
Scary huh ???? Have we not learned in over two hundred years ???? Elections have consequences ???? BE READY..
The police are govt agents. Thats who signs their paychecks. While maybe 1% will refuse, the majority will follow the letter of the ‘law’. Its basic psychology AND history.
In a worst case scenario, and you and your family are starving, those with the money/food/power, could get you to do anything. Its basic psychology AND history.
This is how countries are destroyed, and oppressive regimes rise. By the people who would rather enslave their fellow brethren, for a bowl of fish head soup.
Its time humanity took a different path, when that fork in the road arrives.
Would it be more noble for your family of 4, to refuse food and lodging from the govt, in exchange for your boots kicking down doors for them?
Ask yourself…
I’ve said it on here before, and i’ll say it again, don’t trust cops, NONE of them. If the 2a were to be repealed , the local law enforcement will be paying you a not-so-friendly visit.
LEOs do their jobs as required as a matter of routine. Confiscation of firearms, at least to those of us LEOs who are old enough to understand the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, is not a routine matter. In fact, violations of the rights usually occurs when there is a misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the law. Rarely is it purposely done. So, your “don’t trust cops” is a great broad-brush statement, but don’t presume to speak for the actions of all LEOs.
We may soon find out in CA… the Democrats have a dozen bills headed to the Gov. outlawing semi auto rifles and requiring all ammo be registered… also the ability for anyone to file a restraining order against anyone else for any reason to have their guns taken away…
The government hires police to uphold their laws and that’s what the police are going to do. If the law says your weapon is illegal they will take it, no questions asked. There won’t be house to house searches, there will be a slow confiscation whenever they appear. If you keep your weapon and actually use it your cell will be right next to the guy you were trying to stop.
What happened in New Orleans was extremely disturbing.
But it triggered a federal law to prevent that from happening again. Of course, we already had one…
Has anyone heard of any Bostonian was FORCED from their home? I thought they took the intimidating yells as commands but, by law, those officers on their porch were only suggesting they leave and allow a search.
I think that is why it happened without any national repercussion. The Bostonians complied and got on camera. What happened to the Bostonians who said, “We’re not coming out till the terrorists are dead. Thanks, though!”
No reports of broken down doors. But I’ve heard no reports on anyone not complying.
With every terror attack, more Americans support our rights. And every European begins to yearn for them.
YOU should revisit ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, FNN, FBN, MSNBC & even BBC/The Guardian & YOUTUBE Footage, where Hundreds of Innocent Homeowners and their families were ORDERED, at Machine Gun Barrel/Muzzle to VACATE their Premises, NOW….there weren’t any polite ‘asking’ officers/deputies. Folks were ORDERED, NOW, while being SCREAMED AT, to lay down in their front yards….oh, and did I forget to mention that this occurred, live, filmed, by all those aforementioned new organizations, live, while the sought brother, hiding under a boat cover, was MILES Away? Review the footage, Please? I KNOW What MY Eyes Saw, and it wasn’t ‘officer friendly, asking politely’. WHEN the SWAT Team is IN YOUR FACE, it’s considerably different than encountering ‘officer friendly’. Please don’t tell us we didn’t see,
what we saw.
Your perspective is exactly what I was looking for.
I know people were yelled at. I know they were ordered.
What I don’t know is if anyone refused to comply. And if so, what happened?
If a Boston bombing happened and my neighborhood was affected, all doors will be barred and no one is coming in or out.
Cops can yell all they want. Till they produce a warrant…
Since they go door to door, it’s proof they didn’t see the terrorist go into a single residence.
I don’t think there is a “right” answer to this conundrum.
Will the police enforce the law? Probably–but even if they refuse they will not go to jail, as violating an order is not a crime. But they could lose their jobs and pensions.
How will the police enforce the law? Not by going door to door in most cases. I think everybody recognizes the sheer magnitude and impossibility of such a task, particularly where there is no registration of banned weapons and/or wholesale noncompliance with registration requirements after ban laws are passed. We are, in the case of so-called “assault weapons, talking about millions of firearms, even in the state of California, where there is no direct record to the name and model number of any rifle (or lower receiver) prior to 1/1/2014 (for those sold through FFLs), and obviously no record of any of the multitude of 80% lowers for AR and AK builds. Further, even after the Legislature absconded with millions of dollars in excess fees paid by gun buyers to “crack down” on “armed prohibited persons” (which includes those involuntarily confined in a mental facility, felons, and all domestic abusers), the CaDOJ has only gone after the soft targets of persons found to be insane, not the felons. And even then, it has found it impossible to keep a trained staff, as those trained to do the job will quickly move to higher paying and more secure jobs within the department, as a result of which the department has blown through millions of dollars without doing even half the job.Further, the odds of specific guns being declared contraband are not that high; California banned future sales of full auto firearms in 1989 (and forced registration of existing weapons), and tried to ban the sale of new semi-auto AR-15 rifles at the same time. It succeeded for a couple of years, and then the bullet button was invented, and millions more rifles were sold. In the past 27 years, the Legislature has not sought to steal lawfully owned firearms by declaring them contraband. And even if they did, the problems of enforcement are so massive that I would expect enforcement only when such weapons are discovered during a lawful search for something else. Even if California law does not permit the sale, gift, or bequeath of such guns, it is a simple matter to drive across the border where such guns are perfectly legal and sell or transfer them there. Finally, although the Legislature is seeking to ban “bullet buttons” (with the intent of banning ARs and AKs through attrition), there is already a “probably legal” workaround for sale.
If you think for one second that the gov’t has not kept permanent records of sales you are delusional. Of all the rights they are currently trampling on, restricting, removing and lying about not doing, you think firearm sales were not in that category? Mass collection of data via internet, phone, etc by the NSA, Stingrays, swiping ID cards to buy cigarettes, tracking your internet travels, all done while saying “We aren’t doing that” or dropping charges against arrested citizens because LEO didn’t want the Judge to find out they used warrantless Stingray tactics and don’t want to publically say that’s how they got the info to arrest the person. Come on, really? Every sale is kept, they have the info about the serial numbers, buyers, sellers, etc coming through the background system. Are all background checks indicative of purchase? No, but the probability is high enough that they can track it down. Try going through a background check and once approved, you decide to buy another firearm instead. They have to do another one, why? The serial number. Seriously, test this out and find out if I’m not telling the truth. Of all the crap our gov’t is pulling on us and you believe they are telling the truth and not collecting the data on firearm sales, of all the things they are going to get right, it’s that? I don’t think so. But test my information, switch firearms after you are cleared to purchase and see what happens.
Have a Blessed Day.
Oath Keepers have gotten some bad press. I don’t know the % of them that are active LE or Mil. CA recent flop to criminalize grandhatered mags an more restrictions: how will Active Oath Keepers respond? The gun grabbers will attack a bridge to far one day. There will be individual resistance incidents and those will grow in number and larger bad things will happen. Its a matter of time and the wick is smoldering.
It’s true. Possibly in some rural parts of America where small town and sheriff’s will side with the people we may get resistance in the form of good cops. BUT, the good cops wont last long. When the sheriff tells his community that his office will not confiscate guns, the governor will confiscate the sheriff’s job. Then the governor will find a sheriff or state police captain that will take over and send the deputies out to enforce the law. MOST cops don’t want to do it, but they are like the rest of us. They need a job.
When I was a cop working lots of traffic, I did not bother to ask drivers if they had any guns, unless there was more to the stop than a traffic infraction. I figured it was none of my business. I did not like people having to obtain pistol permits in order to defend themselves. If I had to take them into custody for a more serious crime, like DUI, DWLS 1/2, possession of drugs and similar, than they were asked first, than searched prior to placing them into custody.
If a driver was reported by dispatch to be “DOC ACTIVE” or “DOC IN-ACTIVE”, meaning they have a felony record or on what our state called “community corrections”, which is parole everywhere else (too painful to call a parolee a parolee) then they were asked and checked. A DOC active case allows police to search without a warrant. We did find contraband.
Now that 9 states no longer require permits, that is just another reason for cops to not worry about good guys with guns.
Every place I am aware of –which isn’t all, not by a long shot, sheriffs are elected and cannot be summarily fired or removed from office by the Governor or the state police. The problem is that urban sheriffs, with a few notable exceptions, are decidedly anti, as are almost all big city chiefs of police (most of whom are appointed and serve at the pleasure of the mayor).