Hold your rotten tomatoes for a minute ok. There are important reasons why we need to level the playing field when it comes to internet sales, and gun sales in particular. I will primarily address guns. But beware that this isn’t a “soundbyte” explanation. Our attention spans have grown so thin that anything longer than a Facebook status tends to fall on deaf ears, and lazy readers. If you care about the future of 2nd Amendment freedom, you should support a nationwide internet sales tax. It will force merchants to do some work collecting taxes for states in which they do not reside, but remember, these are internet merchants who have very little if any other overhead. We have organized 20 points, but they are not to be taken individually. However you can jump to the end if you have to check your Facebook.
- Guns are mostly commoditized. Except for rare instances like we what we just experienced after Sandy Hook, everyone knows what guns go for, and rarely if ever does the actual retail price of a new firearm waver by more than 5%.
- Guns are a unique product, in that not only can they only be sold by licensed dealers who need a physical location for their business, there is no instance where a gun can be shipped for transfer to anyone but an actual dealer. Guns can never be shipped to the door of an unlicensed person.
- With guns, for over a decade now, consumers have treated the interstate sales tax exemption as a “replacement” for having to pay a transfer fee to their local dealer. They are oftentimes close in cost.
- This has led to “online gun retailers” who are able to charge a very low margin for their guns, because they do not have to finance the overhead of inventory, like you find in a stocked brick and mortar store.
- Brick and mortar stores are unable to compete with retailers that have no comparable overhead of inventory and employees.
- This has, in normal times of demand for guns, led to a “race to the bottom” with gun prices. But even in the recent artificial boom, it was mostly the brick and mortar stores that did not charge a premium for guns that were in danger of being banned.
- Local stocking gun dealers have become internet showrooms for guns, with many savvy consumers going to the stores to fondle the guns, then buying them online, only to ship them to a local “tabletop dealer” who carries an FFL license for a hobby.
- Stocking dealers do make money from transfers as well, but this is not close to anything resembling a “standard retail margin” of 20% – 50% that you see in most other retail environments. Margin for other retail hobbies, like bikes, boats, musical instruments, camping gear and even scrapbooking is in the 50% range.
- All of those industries have reacted to online sales with what is called “MAP” or “Minimum Advertised Price” to protect their brick and mortar stores. Except for a few gun companies, by and large the gun industry has not protected their stocking gun dealers in this manner, because we use a middle tier of distribution that is outside the control of the manufacturers themselves.
- Some of these wholesale distribution companies have been using direct online sales to consumers to drop ship guns for some of the more recognized online retailers.
- If you can imagine this with the only other product that must be shipped to a licensed “dealer,” pharmaceuticals, this would be like Pfizer allowing their warehouses to send your Lipitor to a neighbor tabletop dealer so you can avoid the sales tax at Walgreens.
- The difference is that the pharmaceutical industry is mostly made up of huge corporations, whereas the FFL gun dealers are for the most part Mom and Pop stores, or at best a small chain. Even our biggest chains like Cabelas only have stores numbering only in the dozens.
- Also, pharmaceuticals can be bought over state lines, whereas guns cannot in the case of handguns Federally, and many states prohibit the purchase of any guns outside the state at all.
- This is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the legal disadvantages that a gun dealer has as compared to other forms of retail. The BATFE can walk into a gun dealer at any time, with no appointment, and completely examine all records. Gun dealers have been forced to close for such things as abbreviating state names and allowing customers to use a middle initial instead of a full middle name. These particular issues have eased in past years, but abuses of gun dealers happen all the time without consumers ever knowing about them.
- WITHOUT ACTUAL BRICK AND MORTAR GUN DEALERS, YOU CAN’T BUY GUNS! Since the Gun Control Act of 1968, unlicensed individuals cannot sell guns as a business. Buyers have to fill out a form, #4473, that has to be kept on file at the dealer, and now the dealers have to perform background checks.
- You may feel that we only need “transfer dealers,” but if you look back to 1993, when the Brady Bill came into effect, we went from 300,000 gun dealers to under 50,000 almost overnight. This was caused by an increase in the FFL license fee from $30 to $600, and having to make a phone call (NICS) to sell a gun.
- If the FFL fee was again multiplied by 20x, or even 5x, the vast majority of remaining “tabletop” local dealers would shed their license. All that will be left standing are the brick and mortar dealers. This type of legislation could be passed OVERNIGHT right now with zero repercussions, and don’t think GunsAmerica is the only people who have thought this up. Bloomberg has a plan, and it is a virtual guarantee that something in that plan is going to create more hoops and expenses for FFL gun dealers.
- Before this crazy demand created by first the re-election of President Obama then Sandy Hook, gun dealers were fighting to keep their doors open. Demand had sunk to a low after the artificial boom of demand created by the 2008 elections, and a lot of big gun shops closed, unable to compete with online retailers while maintaining a respectable level of inventory and employees. Overall, gun sales were up, but a lot of this growth came from online. Growth in guns since 2008 was squandered on retailers that contribute little to the NRA, NSSF and the overall infrastructure of the gun purchase process itself, at the expense of brick and mortar dealers who generally do.
- Because our manufacturers and distributors have not been able to agree on a MAP pricing system like other retail industries, guns have become a devalued product, going for much less than they should with proper retail margins. There are most likely less man-hours of work that go into a Cannondale bicycle or a Gibson guitar than a Ruger firearm, yet the Ruger Firearm is 1/4 the price of the bike and the guitar. Cannondale and Gibson both have very strict MAP.
- Gun dealers have to exist if we want to buy guns . Stocking dealers are the only FFL dealers who will be around should the government raise FFL fees and record keeping requirements. The gun industry has no MAP to protect its brick and mortar retailers. We must remove the additional sales tax incentive to buying guns online instead of at our local stocking gun dealers.
You see, save your tomatoes for Bloomberg. This is a fairly cut and dried case for guns. And as for the rest of retail, again, remember that online retailers have no other real overhead, and it won’t kill them to play on a level playing field when it comes to taxes. We all pay taxes, and the states have been getting killed by the loss in revenue from online sales, while Ebay sellers, Amazon, Newegg and Buds flourish in low rent warehouse districts. Guns are one of the few things we buy that are mostly made in America, but a good percentage of America’s GDP consists of selling crap made outside the US to each other. Sales tax, for the last five years or more, has been unfairly weighted on the not so internet savvy, and these are usually the elderly and less well off in our society. The time has come for this to change and for everyone to pay their fair share of state tax burden that is based in sale tax.
Sales tax is not a new tax. It is already something that you are supposed to be paying on internet purchases in most states, but almost nobody pays it. Some states, like Washington, already collect sales tax from out of state purchases through “use” tax laws. And some states, like New Hampshire, still don’t have sales tax at all. The internet has changed retail, and there will be no going back, but the internet was originally exempted from sales tax to build it as a marketplace. Now that the internet has come of age, it is time to level the playing field. If you want to sell out of your own state, collect the sales taxes for the states in which you sell. The business in that state that you are selling against have to collect the tax and it is only fair.
America could eliminate income tax and sales tax entirely and put tariffs on foreign goods, the same tariffs that those countries put on our goods. But that would be a real benefit to working class Americans, and the politicians certainly don’t want that. A level playing field for sales tax is a start, and it might help our state governments get out of bankruptcy, while bringing fairness in paying sales tax to all ages and classes of Americans. But it is time to level the whole playing field, and bring real jobs back to America for good. End the failed free trade agreements. Tax foreign made goods. Slash corporate regulation and fees, and let America go back to work.
obviously like your web-site however you have to take a look at the spelling on several of
your posts. Several of them are rife with spelling issues and I find it very troublesome to inform the reality then again I will certainly come again again.
“Competition was fierce, and the judging was difficult for the panel of local business leaders who selected the seven winners,” Pigott revealed.
More than 60 nominees were judged on their innovation in their
respective category, how they have distinguished themselves in the community,
the results of their efforts to promote the destination, their contributions to business and tourism
partnerships for the overall benefit of the county, and their work to foster growth and sustainability.
Your house must be priced realistically to interest the buyer.
New York residents, whether they know it or not, are already expected to pay “sales and use tax” on out of state purchases. You are expected to pay it when you file your income tax. Firearms are NOT exempt. Now if all the out of state purchases you made are each less than $1000, you don’t have to record the purchase or calculate the exact tax for it. You can pay a fixed amount the state has determined, based on your income. If HOWEVER, you have one or more purchases for more than $1000, you have to calculate the exact tax on those, and add that to the fixed rate for your income. People have suggested online that the state won’t know what we purchase out of state. However, the state has already prosecuted people for sales and use tax fraud. They have information exchange agreements with other states. They likely have access to the amount you paid. Furthermore, I’m sure they can gain access to your credit card and banking records if they want to push a prosecution.
Now as to whether the imposition of a nationwide internet sales tax “levels the playing field”, or protects brick and mortar stores from “unfair competition”, BALONEY! Here in Central NY, the local gunshops seldom carry what I want. They have already demonstrated that they don’t want my business. They charge premium prices for brands and models I don’t want. If I ask for something different, they insult me by trying to talk me out of it. Or they flat-out refuse. They have all the advantages of bringing in their line of boring goods by truck (with bulk shipping rates), wheras when I go online, I have to pay shipping through the nose to get it. So let’s not have any more whining from brick and mortar stores about how “unfair” the internet is.
Oh I forgot to mention, in NYS mandated fees are disguised taxes because they are imposed on everyone, and the politicians love them, cause they get to say NO NEW TAXES, but the IRS states that mandated fees are deductible the same as taxes, because they are imposed and not voluntary. Those to give you a few are 911 fee, Shoreham land fee, Law Enforcement fee, MTA fee, Universal fee, County communication fee, Town communication fee, and that list goes on. Taxed and Fee’d out.
Are you kidding….MORE taxes…. My wife and I paid 37% of our income in taxes. to the tune of $43900.00 that includes 0ver $9600. in NY state sales and $8400.00 real estate taxes. When Is YOU ARE TAXED ENOUGH come into play, at 40%, 45%, or 50%. Come on there is taxes in gasoline, electric, natural gas, heating oil, water telephone, cell phone bills just to name a few. After Obama care kicks in a few more will be added in. I for one would like to see some taxes eliminated before piling more on. MTC
Nice blog, I want to get more information about this.hope you continue to keep up with this guns blog.If you want to see some more information all about that then visit this link:
http://www.paintballgun-sale.com/
local gun stores in my area have raised prices on guns and ammo with ammo on 22 cal 600% this is pure greed on the part of the gun shop owners who could care less about there local customers on line prices on hand guns are for the most part lower with just as good service and we may well buy supplys and other products at the pick up dealer when we pick up are new weapon its all about what works for the customer and in my case what saves me money
No it isn’t, not that this is part of the discussion. If they don’t, people will buy it all and flip it online. The overall profit from a pallet of .22LR ammo probably doesn’t even pay the light bill for a month in most big gunshops.
E-commerce is the natural evolution of market forces. Thus, any benefit to brick n’ mortar stores that taxes would bring would only be temporary. The market will adjust and the only winners will be the state and local governments.
Taxing Internet transactions won’t level anything, it will just create more waste.
Why do idiots bother? Does anyone know?
I don’t know of anybody who supports taxes, of any kind. I’m disappointed with this article supporting such. Over 3 trillion+ spent by the government, not counting local, and you want more taxes. To level the playing field? What field of dreamland have you come from? In my book, the less government and taxes the better. <That's a period.
I live in Washington State and have to pay 9.5% sales tax to my FFL when I pick up my gun that has been purchased online. It seems to me that if I have to pay the tax it should go to the state that I bought from. My state is trying everything it can to raise revenue. I think this sux.
This is an illogical argument. The point of the internet tax is for government to get more of our money. Brick and mortar stores can benefit as much as the online dealers. No one is stopping them from selling theirs product online. When I have bought a firearm online it is not to save the sales tax but to buy the product I wanted. Saving sales tax is just an added benefit. Talking about “fairness” is giving into the premise of the liberals. How is it more “fair” to pay more taxes? The brick and mortar store argument is a smoke screen. We are supposed to believe that those in government care about them when in reality it is just a ploy to get more of our money in their hands.
Absolutely Not. I 100% disagree.
You want to take the one thing — the internet — that exists as close to “anarchy” as possible — and because of this we’ve seen 100X growth/benefits for all of mankind.
Not just here in America but throughout the world — the internet has brought amazing things to so many people.
Backing the government when they start regulating something as amazing as the internet is ridiculous.
Plus, the internet is the last hope for the “little guy” — making it possible “micro entrepreneurs” to make money — when they couldn’t have survived in the “Real business world” — further benefiting society and everyone as a whole.
The bottom line is:
Counting on the government to LEGISLATE a problem away is NEVER a good idea and will always, always, ALWAYS end badly.
This should be dreadfully obvious by this point … we need LESS government in EVERYTHING … not more. And an additional tax burden is NEVER helpful. Never. Ever. Never … that’s the height of insanity and I can’t believe I’m having to explain this to the owner of gunsamerica.com.
All my best,
Caleb
It is funny how you have been brainwashed into thinking that the internet is just a big free pool you can piss in and nobody will ever care or notice. Every click and download is being tracked by a huge new NSA facility for “future use” and you have no idea how much the internet has taken away your freedoms.
GA. I’ll hold off on the rotten tomatoes… but to be honest I did think about it! Yes I’ll save them for the anti gun folks. I have to disagree about your ideas on the sales tax. Albeit you do have some good points, however I feel the bad ones out weigh the good ones! I am not against paying taxes, just against paying MORE taxes. We are just about over our heads now in taxes! No more please. I am a proud American and pay my fair share of taxes. Yes we are lucky to be the greatest country on earth, some countries pay “thru the nose” on taxes, I’m sorry for them but must be concerned here in America.
I am a gun buff, had my .22 rifle when 7 yrs old (supervised by my dad of course). Always been pro NRA too. We mention the “brick & mortar” sellers. Well I buy from wherever I can get the best deal, in fact the last two guns was from “B & M” dealers. Yes I paid my taxes too. I have bought through the internet too, ok, NO taxes there but a “hefty” transfere/shipping fee though. Personally I feel the “B & M” dealers are doing just fine. Even though they have “overhead” expenses I think they for the most part are “thriving”. Are they “over pricing” a little maybe?
I don’t feel the local dealers will be out of business very soon, anyway I hope not. Actually I am more concerned about all this “foreign” stuff we have to buy, that is hurting us more than the tax deal anyway, but no matter, please NO MORE TAXES!. I believe the government could tighten the purse strings a bit along with getting more jobs here at home instead of so much foreign interest. Thanks and am a concerned pro gun guy.
Here in NJ the ‘brick and mortar’ gun dealers do little to initiate or increase business traffic. This is caused half by NJ’s burdensome laws, such as dealers cannot have more that 250 lbs of nitrocellulose powder on hand at any one time, so getting a particular brand of powder I would like to try or to replace what I’ve used is usually a waste of gas. About 20 years ago I started buying powder in 5-8 lb containers and paid the hazmat fee, just to be able to get the powder. The other half is the lack of customer service offered, I wanted to have a scope mounted on a rifle, I had the scope and the rings, but needed the dealer to source the mounts. Too much trouble said he, find them and then I’ll put them on. I took me 15 minutes to find the mounts on the web and order them. I’m seriously contemplating the idea of buying the $400 Sinclair fixture for drilling holes for the scope bases rather than traveling the 5 miles to the dealer, as that would be too much trouble. Another dealer I tried to do business with when I wanted to try a new manufacturer of primers, I was willing to order them and wait for them to come in, but the dealer said he only carries one brand, they are all the same any way, so no. I started doing all my reloading business with Midway and haven’t been to a local gun dealer in years, except for that scope mounting job last month. Looks like another 5 or 6 years will go by until I go back. Not that all is bad with my dealing with small gun shops. On the good side of the dealers, I started travelling thru PA on my way to western NY every month and I can stop by dealers in PA that are enroute and I can pleasantly conduct some business.
As a long time Licensed Small Business Gun Dealer and having used Gunsamerica almost since inception,I find it hard to believe the position you are taking.Competition is what drives this country,if the BRICK AND MORTAR overhead is so expensive that you have to charge exorbitant prices, then cut cost so you can compete with Small Business.
Gunsamerica,your position is very puzzling as it appears that you are actually encouraging more spending on the part of Local Governments by this article!
You have a twisted idea of what exorbitant prices are for handmade products, which is for the most part what guns are. What do you think our country can survive with brown and white trucks dropping everything at your door? And why don’t you actually read the article as it applies SPECIFICALLY TO GUNS. Why don’t we all just jump up and down and cry that we have sold the integrity of our economy for cheap shit from china and not having to pay 6% sales tax and that dammit we don’t want to give that up?
As a retailer in a niche market i fully understand what you are trying to point out, I sell both online and locally. Idaho state law says if i can prove i ship outside the state to customers in another state [verifiable shipping costs] I do not have to charge them Idaho sales tax, this new proposed tax may sound good on the outside to shut down those table top dealers you are talking about, but they are also “legitimate” business folks to, who just do not move enough inventory to have that brick and mortar location often enough, and yes those that take a “fee” for transfer do so to help pay their costs of doing business and paying the BATFE extortion fee for doing the BATFE paperwork [remember no one who does government paperwork gets paid for the “privilege” of being able to sell firearms to those who have a RIGHT to possess them…. remember privileges CAN BE REVOKED without cause by the very agency that gave you permission to do what would be against regulations [remember the LAW is the Constitution and no where is sales regulated within that SUPREME document] of legislative codified intent having the “color of law”.
While i have about equal local and internet sales, i am far from having 50% profit margin to work with in my area of “sporting” goods and while sales tax might not hurt my sales much, such leaves me open to about 900 tax jurisdictions which could audit my books at any time causing me, a sole proprietor with no employees, more headaches and unnecessary work trying to comply with some out of state government agent that doesn’t care about me or my family due to my not being in their jurisdiction, just after money i “might” owe them because i sell over the internet. I am in business because i do not want you or anyone else to pay for my families costs of living without you directly purchasing something from me, or hiring my services….. putting more folks out of business with overburdening paperwork is not the answer to closing off “table top” gun dealers [which i am not one of btw, and never have been]. The answer does lay with MAP, and i believe your energy is better directed at the middle men and manufacturers than to foist more burdens on small business owners just getting by who stay off “state welfare”. There are, as always, more than one side to anything that is square.
I hope the originators of this support group for on-line tax have read all the responses and pay
attention.
wait just a minute guys! most of you make good points… including admin… BUT… you all miss the big picture. this is what a famous boxer used to call a rope-a-dope. they are gonna sucker you in, and take you out. since the proposed act is federal, it will require federal oversight… but by whom? all existing bureaucracies are over worked and underpaid already (LOL), right? i would bet that this legislation will lead to the creation of a whole ‘nother D.C. bureaucracy… the dept of leveling the sales playing field? how much money will this dept. absorb and not pass on to the states? (just like the fed dept. of education does now. for every education dollar your state collects, maybe .70 cents makes it to the fed dept of education, then the fed decides how much they’re gonna send to each state dept of education, california gets back more than they send in, and louisiana gets back .25 cents on their dollar) … so then the tax rate that will start off small, to ease passage, will most assuredly be escalated later so that the new govt. dept created for oversight of this mess will be “properly funded”
if they succeed in dividing us, they will conquer us.
GA admin,and other supporters; please, please don’t lobby or promote what will most likely become a back door expansion of federal powers. i know you all mean well, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Internet Sales Tax!!! Why tax us more, I work in Healthcare, just wait to see how much more we will be getting screwed! No on the Internet Sales Tax! We are taxed enough, the reasons listed are poor in my opinion. Especially when you state, “Internet sales companies have little to no overhead…” that’s why I buy online, to save money. It creates competition, besides have the guys working in the stores don’t know what they are talking about! They push certain guns, that are not appropriate for certain shooters, that they make more money on….
Then start selling over the internet. This is just another law on top of current law in many states that dictates citizens must claim online purchases made from outside their home state. In Michigan, you either keep track of your internet purchases that do not tack on sales tax, or opt for a certain percentage figure that is basically a “guesstimate” on your taxes, which is meant to keep the honest folks, well, honest. But here is the kicker – once again, we are enacting laws that will only affect law abiding tax paying citizens. I won’t even start with the small business issues. Enough laws. Enough taxation. Enough regulation.
If we keep them more and more money, that will not lead to a desire to cut back spending.
Also it sounds like you are against “table top” FFLs. I am one of those and I only do transfers. I do not sell firearms.
But I provide a service for $25.00 that the local gun store charges $75.00 for. Why is that not good for gun owners that buy on line? The local gun store also was charging $1.00 a round for 223 ammo and cash only sales. Rip offs can occur everywhere and table top FFLs should not be put out of business as you advocate.
This bill should be called the mega store protection act! That is all it is. This does not cover shipping cost that may be more than the local sales tax. It makes states collect taxes for other states and some products ordered on line may not be available locally. It is free enterprise. For Gunsamerica to support more government taxes and regulations is absurb. You should be ashamed.
Trouble is, in the State of Washington we’re charged not only the transfer fee ($40 per gun) but the Washington State Sales Tax even though the gun wasn’t bought in Washington. I have my purchase sent to a “Brick and Mortar” store even though it may have been bought on the internet and still pay both. I wonder how many MORE ways they can find to tax us. I can imagine being taxed by BOTH the seller and the FFL who handles the transfer. That’s some level playing field alright.
I think you missed the boat on this one, business gets enough brakes, the regular citizen should get a brake once in awhile. If congress gets a foothold in the internet they will find away to screw it up like they have done to every other entity they have ever touched. Govt should stay the hell away from the internet.
The Interstate Tax Bill will almost certainly pass because State governments, like the Federal government, are desperate for tax revenue and will strongarm Congressional delegations into support (not that our elected officials ever need much of a push to impose more taxes). GA makes a well reasoned argument in favor of the Bill, in part because it will help to reestablish a level margin playing field between bricks and mortar stores and internet only sellers. However, as is rightly noted above, the exempted State sales tax is often equivalent to the FFL transfer cost. Given that this fee runs $45 in my area, removing the State sales tax exemption will likely add $75 to $100 on an “average” gun sale. If there is any doubt that such a price increase will have a chilling effect on gun sales (particularly for used guns), please provide the basis for such doubt. So, while the GA case for supporting the Interstate Tax Bill may appear to make good economic sense and help the ever diminishing number of LGS, it will instead almost certainly lead to reduced gun sales. Not an agenda I care to support.
Why is it we just love shooting the messenger (bad terminology — rather) throw tomoatoes at the messenger? I guess it just makes us feel so justified that we’ve righted the wrong done to us. Fortunately, most of us don’t do this when a doctor tells us we have operable cancer. We thank him. We ask him to help us rid oursevlves of the problem. hm. People. Go figger.
But for your case, in particular, asking people to pay their fair share of supporting our gun shops, thank you for a well thought out and well-presented case, doctor. I’ve been a gun guy all my life (started in the last millennium and that’s a long time).
I live in The People’s Republic of California because it is so wonderful. Here, we whine about everything, but keep laughing silently, as we have the benefits of orderly gun laws. The last gun I bought from Bud’s I paid my gunshop the state tax. I seethed in anger for days. Then I realized it was just paying my way. This is taxation WITH representation. I am grateful to be able support my gun shops’ business. They represent me all across the board, in business, supporting the NRA, fighting stupid gun laws. Online sales do not. Online sales can ride free. They laugh silently, too. I don’t begrudge anybody profit. That’s what we do here. That’s why the Berlin wall fell, and why people can still move to CA or anywhere we damn well please. And all the “horrors” most of the whimpy gun law suggestions being spewed now are already implemented here in the land of nuts and flakes. And look how I’m suffering (NOT).
Bottomline: You make a good case and I am grateful for you being the messenger. It is true that many gun shops are online, as well, trying to enjoy some of the profits, masquerading as the geeks that are getting the free ride, but they still pay the rent, they still (under)pay their staff who is there every time we want to do the most important task before you buy: holding that weapon and feeling the relationship, is it there, is it right. Can’t do that in a chat blog. Thank you for reminding me what the duty is that goes with this particular freedom. I’m in.
nice, thoughtful yet myopic arguement. After years in the industry(wholesale and retail) I’ve found alot of the problems in the gun business stem from one thing. A majority of “brick and mortar” stores are run by people who decided to try and make money on their hobbybut have almost no business or sales sense. They don’t value their time properly or at all let alone their real expenses. Not collecting internet tax is a decoy tactic. To simply apply it to only the gun industry is short sighted or self-serving. I pay enough freaking tax. I go to stores that know their product and hire people that can sell and take care of the customer. If your sales staff is a bunch of part time retiries that just need a reason to get up and can wax poetic aboout their Ithica 37 but couldn’t care less aboout “them plastic toys”, well, ya get what ya pay for. nice try but i’m gonna keep what little money i got left.
Everything you say is true but it doesn’t address the fact that other people are paying taxes that you are not who live right next door to you simply because they buy from a local store instead of having the ability to buy from the internet.
Touched on by others, the author has neglected or ignored a large proportion of America. I live in a small coastal town in Florida. Like many across the nation, it takes 1-1/2 hours to get to a gun dealer, 40 minutes to Wallyworld or over an hour to the nearest mall. I’m 70 and not as healthy as I used to be, paying for the indiscretions of my youth when nothing could hurt me, and live on a fixed income. Because of this, I do 99% of my purchases over the internet. I’m not alone. The tax may increase the business of brick & mortar stores for awhile, if you are lucky enough to have one nearby, but eventually, things will return to the way they are now. Even if online prices go up, people will opt for clothing, appliances and other items be shipped to them rather than make the trip to pick up what they need. If you feel the problem will eliminate transfers of firearms, just increase the transfer fee to be more realistic and the dealer won’t have to take up additional space to stock items. Additional stocking also increases the taxes on inventories that most states levy on brick & mortar stores. So in reality, you guys won’t be doing much to help yourselves with the internet tax considering the additional work you will have to do and the increased cost to you.
The author just doesn’t make logical sense. He doesn’t seem to have thought it through from both sides.
Nonetheless, you are liable for sales tax, regardless of where you buy your stuff. Where the nearest store is in this discussion is irrelevant. You are liable in the state of Florida to a sales tax on all non-food purchases.
You’re trying to legislate the evolution of the market place rather than letting the best serving business/economic model(s) prevail. Aiding a corrupt gov.in generating more new taxes in the name of a dead horse that will never realize any real benefits from those taxes – let alone consumers – is never a good idea.
That would be true if the internet wasn’t specificially exempted originally.
I worked in retail of musical instruments for nearly 10 years. The author is absolutely correct here, this is NOT a tax increase or a new tax. This is simply CLOSING a loophole. Continually people would come in our store to try out a guitar, amp, or especially an effects pedal. After wasting my time and picking my brain learning how to use it, they would leave without spending a dime. A week later they would come back with their new pedal (“I bought it online for the same price but no sales tax!”) and then want me to help them out getting it to work. These same people will whine and moan about this change in the tax code. They treat retailers like we are just in business to provide them with free services. I can’t even imagine how gun stores stay in business without MAP pricing.
I’m not persuaded by GA’s OP solutions; however, I’m mainly disappointed with the responses. Everyone seems eager to denounce GA’s attempt to make a contribution to improving commerce in guns. Granted, GA might be misguided; or, they might be on to something. We aren’t going to find solutions to our problems by denouncing everyone who dares to articulate a new idea just because that idea gores our ox.
The important point in GA’s OP is that stocking FFL make a contribution to gun commerce – yet they are threatened. Suppose we agree that there are plenty of stocking FFLs that DO make a contribution. (This is not to say that every last stocking FFL does make a contribution; nor even that 1/2 make a contribution. Let’s all just grant that plenty do help to introduce newbes – e.g., women, children, the elderly who might never have owned a gun.) Well, then, we ought to be concerned that stocking FFLs might die-out. Perhaps we should be concerned that FFLs might be driven out-of-business. (Not necessarily concerned, just that this is a possible concern.)
Ultimately, I don’t think that taxing interstate sales is going to help stocking FFLs enough to make a difference. Nor am I happy with minimum-advertised pricing as a solution; it smacks too much of a conspiracy to fix prices. So, I don’t agree with GA’s solutions. I do agree that they make good points among their 20 thesis.
I do think that we all have to hang together; or, most assuredly, we will hang separately. Yes, consumers have to hang together with all their FFLs (stocking, internet and kitchen-table) and the distributors and manufacturers. The Prohibitionists managed to to corner the spirits market and dampen the opposition by the beer and wine constituencies. The latter couldn’t imagine the Prohibitionists would ever come after bear or wine. Yet, as soon as the spirits were in the Prohibitionists’ sights beer and wine were targeted.
We, as gun and ammo consumers, better be sure that the Progressives don’t choke-off our distribution channels. They could easily do this by (as GA points out) raising the annual cost of an FFL, imposing costs-of-doing-business and baring internet/mail-order sales. What will happen to each of us if there remains just a single stocking FFL in the largest city in each of our States?
Let’s not disparage either the internet FFLs or the kitchen-table FFLs. We enjoy a wider variety of products at reasonable prices because we can order from anywhere and have the goods shipped to a remote location that might only be able to support a kitchen-table FFL.
Just remember, the stocking FFLs maintain an inventory readily available to our communities in time of crisis. When the latest gun-grab came down I was able to buy an AR from my neighborhood stocking FFL. What if he were gone? What if there were a riot in a particular city; or many cities? Would our neighbors be able to buy a gun suitable to an unusual purpose without our FFLs? Would they be able to buy a supply of ammo? (E.g., a neighbor only has a 22 rifle or pistol; she needs a shotgun or AR. Another neighbor has a shotgun or AR, but only a few rounds of ammo left over from his last trip to the range. Where will her/his internet dealer be on this occasion. Remember the lock-down after Boston?)
Yesterday I attended (first time) a 2A rally at my State Capital. Good crowd; but I was frightened by the demographics. Mostly old men, like me. A few older women; most of whom I took to be passionate about spending time with their beloveds; presumably only slightly less so about the 2A. Only a few young women or men. Where are our sons and daughters? If we haven’t gotten them to the range before graduating high school then we have failed to train them to-arms.
Now that my children have moved away from home, to what place shall they turn when they become concerned for their personal security? Likely the best resource for them will be their local FFL; if he is still in business.
We may all continue to supply our personal needs from internet vendors. At the same time, we should remain concerned for the viability of stocking dealers. We can still patronize good stocking FFLs. When we have a friend or neighbor who begins to take an interest in guns we can steer them to the good stocking FFLs in the area. (How will we know whom to recommend if we shun all stocking FFLs merely because we have reached self-sufficiency with our personal knowledge of arms and have found internet FFLs?)
As to taxes, I’m convinced that every dollar of tax revenue collected will be mis-spent. Taxes are a place to hold-the-line on our legislators at every level. Yet, they aren’t the only place to hold the line; probably not the best place. Our interest in taxes should be that they be levied in a fair way; and, I’ll concede that the internet transactions that avoid sales taxes are an important inequity. Yet, we should keep our eyes on the most important balls.
How many of those who were quick to complain:
– vote?
– know the policies and voting records of those for whom they vote?
– e-mail their legislators?
– visit their legislators’ offices in their districts?
– visit their legislators’ offices in the State or national Capital?
Yesterday, I had the time and opportunity to visit my State representative’s and senator’s Capital office. And, I stood in the crowd to be counted. It was a 6-hour expenditure of my time; but, it was gratifying. Only a few of us can visit our representative’s and senators’ offices in our national Capital; but almost all of us could visit their offices in our districts. Any such visit helps.
Every single one of us can write an e-mail to every one of our legislators, national and State. Just Google senator/representative and your home town and you will identify your legislators. Go to their web sites; they all have a place to submit a comment.
Tell them what’s on your mind. Stop spending. Don’t raise the debt ceiling. Cripple Obama-Care. Benghazi. Fast and Furious. Taxes. 2A. If you can’t send these messages to your legislators then kindly refrain from simply denouncing people who have ideas to offer – however misguided they might be – on internet forums read only by people who are already in the right spirit.
Mark
Thank you for writing this well thought out and well written article. It appears that some folks have decided that the Second Amendment is a “get out of jail” card and that the rest of the Constitution; as well as, Federal, State and Local regulation no longer apply as long as they are “Second” sheltered. Such is not the case, and using this line of reasoning is sure to lead us gun owners down the wrong road. Right now, we are on a good path to defending our Second Amendment rights, but trying to use it as an excuse to avoid paying fees and taxes, or otherwise avoid regulation not related to the Second Amendment is asking for trouble. The sales tax issue will be addressed one way or another. If state and local governments cannot collect the taxes and fees they feel they are due, the next step for them, one that has been proposed, is to limit or ELIMINATE internet sales. Can’t happen? Don’t be too sure!
I am a small “table-top” dealer who does online sales only. Right now, it is my only source of income. It’s funny that GunsAmerica can’t figure out what I did years ago. The brick stores also list most products they stock online as well as in store. They almost always sell for less than someone like me when it comes to guns. I don’t really mind because I still can make a buck or two selling to customers that prefer the exceptional service and personal communication I offer as a small time dealer. I have had some bad selling experiences online, but for the most part, people are grateful to get a fair price along with the very best service that I provide. I am against any Internet sales tax, and always will be.
look, you make a decent point but I’m not signing anything that allows the federal government to levy another tax against me. I’m sorry you give a monster a cookie, he’s gonna want a glass of milk. Change your business practices.
I think I understand GA’s position here, but I have to agree with the folks that don’t want anymore taxes! Government for the most part these days, whether local, state, federal, just can’t stop spending money they don’t have, they expect the rest of us to keep giving them more, that is BS, when they show us they can control themselves then we will talk!
I live in a state with no sales tax. This will still cost me lots of cash by making internet retailers pay loads of cash for expensive software to track where to send the $$ they collect. This will require them to hire somone to do all that tracking and paying. That will raise the prices of everything they sell costing me more $$. Where I live is very rural and the local stores that are 30 miles away barely stock anything. Here is an example the one grocery store nearby charges double what the grocery store in the big city 100 miles away charges and selection is limited, very limited as in they only sell the national name brand stuff, you want mustard pay $1.75 because all they have is French’s rather than the no name generic thats 82 cents. I buy things online because they are things I cant really get nearby and if they are its a rip off. An oter example is a local office supply store has a catalogue of things they can “order” for you if you cant find what you need in stock. They order it, call you when its in, and charge you double what you can get it for yourself plus you get to waste your time and gas to go get it rather than having it delivered to your door. That service works for the old timers who cant run a computer. For everyone else its a rip off. So is the idea of this collecting taxes everywhere. So this is the beginning of the end…. “and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.” Revelation 13:17 This is regulate all the sellers who sell and the buyers as well seems to meet the prophesy.
Every gun I’ve bought on the internet I’ve paid state and local taxes on at the gun dealer I pick it up at so why ruin purchases for everything else I buy on the net, which is a lot?
need ammo, plz send without sales tax–to Oregon
ok–no ammo–plz send arrows for my bow
no arrows? plz send club
no taxes?–taxed to freakin DEATH
Dead man walkin here
I have my own gun manufacturing business and nothing hurst us worse then the dealer that has no store front and buys so many weapons they get Master dealer pricing and sells weapons for what I can buy them for and sell the same at about 5% over their cost. People call me all the time and ask for a price then say they can get it cheaper on the web. I have built my business with blood sweat and tears. I have repeat customers for service after the sale, it is very hard to make a buck when you have dealers that have no need to make a decent markup and have no overhead. I see them on the internet and gun shows. The whores that have 30 tables selling guns at my cost. I knew these things going into the business and will not support any more taxes. I charge 50.00 for a transfer that I use to charge 20.00 for because of this. If ATF would make sure that dealers are not doing only internet and gunshow sales (which ATF does not allow) the problem would be fixed. I feel this is and ATF issue and not a tax issue.
I applaud you for telling it like it is … about the downside of internet sales … loss of revenues to community businesses and loss of essential taxes for community services. You cited bicycles as example … but local bicycle stores also suffer from very low profit margins, costly inventory, “showroom” browsers, and having to add taxes. I buy local whenever possible, provided the merchant can agree to an “in the ballpark” price. I’ll add up an internet price, shipping and handling, and I do not mind paying a few bucks over that total to a local brick and mortar. As the problem is usually finding the exact product that I want (I’m older, and very picky), I’ll ask the local merchant if they can order it in. I feel I’m contributing to the economic and services health of my community.
I am a small dealer gunsmith. I say NO to the proposed internet tax. The Gov is loaded with money and spending it wilding!!!!!!!!!!! They need NO More. these are hard times and adding another $30+ to a $500 dollar gun here in VA. will hurt the consumer + kill small business. the big box stores are so high on guns I don’t know how they sell any. [except Walmart]
Ronnie Lankford
Is there anyone here who realizes that anytime you buy from out of state you are NOT required to pay sales tax. This is because of FEDERAL law, state sales tax is used to fund services and benefits for the residents in that state. As a non-resident you receive no benefits from these services and are therefore exempt from paying them. Most people do not bother with claiming this exemption due to the fact that they 1) they don’t know about it, 2) they are buying small ticket items, 3) or the retailer is as ignorant of the law as the customer and think they have to pay it. the only time you are required to pay sales tax on an out-of-state purchase is if the company you are purchasing from has an outlet in your home state that offers the same product. If you live near a state line and are making large ticket purchases across the line check it out, you will find you do not have to pay the state sales tax unless the company meets the above criteria.
I am a small shop owner. I can’t compete with the online gun sellers. They wont buy the gun from me so they can save the tax. If this doesn’t pass my transfer fee is going up to $100. This isn’t a tax on tax. It’s dishonest people who will not pay their states the sales tax they owe.
NO, It’s nice to be able to avoid the sales tax if and when you can. The big brick and morter stores can afford to buy in bulk and lower their prices without it affecting their profit margin, though they rarely do with the exception of walmart. If they collect sales tax for that state they should have to have a store in that state,period. Let the law stand as is. To claim that it weill help protect the 2nd amendment is false. Sounds like your in the pocket of big retailers that are whining about the little guy giving them competition,shame on them and you. No more taxes,cut spending.
What is being proposed is not a national sales tax but federal enforcement of state tax laws by requiring online merchants to file and pay sales tax for every state to which their merchandise is shipped. This will be an administrative nightmare. (In my state, online retailers have to file monthly regardless of whether they actually have any in-state sales. If this legislation passes, multiply that burden by 50 — plus any county or municipal governments that want a cut.)
This also challenges traditional notions of personal jurisdiction in that you may be summoned to another state to answer for alleged noncompliance with its tax laws, which could be very expensive and onerous for the business. (Generally, other states don’t have jurisdiction over non-residents unless the non-resident initiated some continuous, systematic, and purposeful contact with that state. Occasional retail sales that were not initiated by the business don’t cut it.)
We should not be trying to “level the playing field” by burdening some businesses with a regulatory nightmare that would have the effect of reducing competition in the marketplace. I am not in favor of increasing sales taxes (without corresponding reductions in income tax), but it would be much simpler to treat the location of the business as the jurisdiction for tax purposes rather than the location(s) to which merchandise is shipped.
If I run a brick-and-mortar store in South Carolina, and someone from Massachusetts comes into my store and buys something, he pays the South Carolina sales tax, not the Massachusetts sales tax. He doesn’t get to avoid paying the South Carolina tax by showing that he is not a resident that the merchandise will ultimately end up in Massachusetts. The same should be true of transactions that occur in cyberspace.
That way, the playing field is “level” in that businesses that are operating out of the same state are paying the same sales tax rate, but they don’t have to learn and comply with the sales tax laws of 49+ jurisdictions. For those businesses that are not located in the United States, the state can collect “use” taxes from its own residents. (Of course, local bureaucrats would have to incur the political wrath of their own constituents, which is why they’re trying to shift the burden of enforcement to the federal government to begin with.)
An excellent and informative article!
I’m all for supporting the stocking dealer but this stance on all fronts is ridiculous. The extra tax? SERIOUSLY. MORE TAX?
There are far better ways to support the stocking dealer than going this route. As far as an increase in license by 20x, again have you gone mad? Would you like Cabela’s and Bass Pro and Gander to make up 90 percent of the gun stores in America?
50 percent profit margin? Tell me of this fairy tale land you speak of. The gun business has always worked on a razor edge. Adding more tax or increasing a license will only make someone richer, and it won’t be the dealer.
GET REAL!!! There are a lot of products besides guns that will be affected by these taxes. I sell plants and have to compete with the big box stores that sometimes sell plants for less than I can buy them wholesale. Sales tax is the only thing that might help the mom and pop vendors.
Many posters here believe online purchases are now state sales tax free and they are wrong.
If your state has a sales tax you are most likely required to pay sales tax on your online purchases.
If you are not paying it is because you did not know, do not know how to pay, or you do not care.
It is obvious that online sellers will need to collect the buyers state sales tax and forward them to that state.
I agree with others who find your document self-serving. If I understand you correctly, you want us to pay sales taxes on all internet purchases to help save brick & morter (BME) enterprises unable to compete with internet providers. I believe in local small business as the backbone of our economy, but find your reasoning to be fallacious.
Amazon is a good example of a business that found BME not cost effective and so found a way to become a giant seller on the internet. They of course have overhead – personnel, buildings, infrastructure, etc. – but have only added those expenses as scalability required them. Sorry for mom and pop gun businesses struggling to complete, but find another way to do so than to increase my costs! And especially, don’t add any costs that give any form of government control over that revenue. Others in this “comment list” have clearly identified why not.
Sorry I already contacted my U.S. Senators and Representative voicing my disapproval of this VAT type sales tax.
This tax issue is not of Federal jurisdiction, it is a State jurisdiction issue and should be controlled by each individual State.
The Federal Government should close offshore tax havens and tax loopholes for U.S. Corporations, reenact the Glass-Steagall Act to regulate the banksters and stop the subsidies to oil companies and rich farmers; those are their jurisdictions.
So basically GunsAmerica feels that because of various BS taxation and Fee collections schemes we should all bend over to the next/newest tax collection scheme from none other than Harry Reid? Seriously? Please don’t argue for the next inequity by citing a paen of pre-existing inequities.
There is a practical problem with an Internet sales tax and, unless you are a software developer, you should reconsider supporting this. Internet merchants would be at a huge competitive disadvantage and only the largest could even stay in the market. Brick and mortar retailers only have to know the sales tax rate for their physical location. An internet merchant would have to know, and constantly be updating, a crazy quilt of 50 state tax rates, thousands of county tax rates, and hundreds of thousands of city-town-village rates. Even discovering what government entities were collecting sales taxes would require a national database on a par with the Postal Service zip+4 tables that are updated quarterly. This could be an attack on the Internet as a marketing activity – unless you really, really trust our Federal government.
Simply as a point of clarification and not as an endorsement, the taxes are collected by the out of state sellers and then periodically remitted to the various taxing agencies of the buyers. This is handled automatically by the merchant shopping cart software, little to none of which is custom written by smaller sellers. With free and low cost systems readily available, retail vendors are simply stupid to write their own code. Let someone else deal with copyright issues and development costs. Screams of “Oh my gawd, the costs to implement this will put me out of business!” are not well thought out. You can be certain that the shopping cart vendors or the credit card hubs such as auth.net will begin making this available even before it is needed. In some cases it will be to take advantage of a fresh income stream, in others it will be simply to keep established customers. In nearly every case the cost of the new service will be minimal due to market influences. A large company with a business presence all over the country will put together the database(s) and everybody will rent it from them. They will collect a fee and warrant the accuracy of the data, defending their customer from legal challenge if the data proves in error.
What will cripple the smaller seller, in my view, is that their expenses, as a portion of their gross sales, are already higher (as a percentage of sales) than the similar line item for a larger vendor. With overall margins already near the break-even point, any additional expense, such as the need to file more complex tax forms, etc., can be a deal breaker. At the identical price point, Amazon, CTD and other larger operations with computerized order picking and packing, both purchasing and selling in greater quantities, can make a profit where the smaller guys cannot.
Unless I misunderstand things, GA does not sell anything except the service of facilitating sales between vendors and consumers, so it will not face the same situation the vendors who use it will. Mentally separate GA from the guy who sends your rifle to your FFL dealer. GA sells that guy a service … HE is their customer, you are not. Comparatively few cities and counties levy sales tax on services. This dramatically reduces the complexity faced by GA and auction sites such as eBay, which only had to deal with the vendors who advertise through it to begin with.
You might think of GA as analogous to an affiliate program … selling stuff owned by others without having to ever actually touch a box. It’s a pretty simple business model that relies on high server traffic to yield an adequate level of ‘conversion’.
There is no reason why a bricks and mortar store couldn’t follow their lead to become a brick & clicks store.
So the issue comes back to whether the tax is constitutional at all, no matter how it is implemented. There are the twin issues of taxing interstate commerce and the issue of infringement of the right to keep and bear arms. Those seem to be the two unresolved issues.
Both seem to be answered via the universality of the tax on all goods. A tax specifically on firearms might meet the test of infringement, but a tax on merchandise in general is going to pass legal scrutiny. The fact that the taxes have long been imposed, but were difficult to enforce, means that the issues relating to taxation of interstate commerce have likely been challenged and objections have been overcome. Both are lost fights … leave them alone — we’ve got bigger fish to fry.
ALL that has changed is the mechanism of collection of the tax and the point at which it is collected. No mail order vendor will be seriously inconvenienced beyond the level of inconvenience now part of the bricks & mortar sales experience. The bricks and mortar collection of taxes is largely manual and is a labor expense. The clicks collection of taxes is largely automated and its cost is chargeable as a tax-deductible expense.
The argument against taxation without representation is totally off base because the tax falls on the consumer, not the vendor.
How the governmental units intend to enforce compliance remains to be seen. Some vendors will see this as simply a way to tack an extra few percentage points to the profit margin.
“You say I cheated your state out of $1,000 last month? Prove it.”
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
Bravo! After wading through dozens of comments, replies, rants, and ill-considered emotional reactions I fiond your views distinctly refreshing to read. While I still question the merits of any interstate arrangement that imposes on the sovereignty of each state in matters of taxation of citizens, commerce, and enforcement, I can see that governments at all levels will act in the interests of their own survival and financial power. Only if local constituents (voters) threaten the continuation of that authority will elected officials consider the interests of citizens (taxpayers) above their own. In the immediate matter, it is difficult to see how our diffused society will come together against an impingement upon their financial resources. That said, it is still clear to me why GA should favor interstate sales tax collection
When there isn’t a gun buying scare guns never reach msrp. it is usually only 10% over wholesale. Shops like mine never sold over priced guns on the internet. I considered it unethical. When we sell at gun shows it was usually only the guns that had sat in the shop over three months and we sold them at 3% over wholesale. I haven’t been able to get any new guns and not one box of ammo in two months. With three vendors. If this keeps going I will need a side job.
Chris,
That is what the government and large retailers want. Greed dictates that small businesses be run out of business, the “All for us and none for them” mentallity. Obama wins, America loses!
Sounds like a load if crap to me the only way I could afford to buy the guns I have was through the Internet. By the time you add the 30% up charge plus the 10% sales tax the gun has just increased by almost half. As you said there are some states don’t collect sales tax at all and some don’t collect income tax by choice. Cut out the wasteful spending by the states and it’ll all work out for the states. The average person is already taxed about .68¢ per dollar earned by gas tax, sales tax, personal property tax real estate tax etc.. So if I or anyone can shrink that cost a little by shopping online more power to us! During this boom the only reason the brick and mortar stores around didn’t jack their prices up were because they were selling the stock that they had online in auctions for at least 200% mark up. Bass Pro was the only exception I know of, around here anyway.
Did you know that income tax was originally passed by Congress as a temporary tax to assist financing for WW I? A War Tax!
So, the government is, and has been, collecting War tax, Sales Tax, and stifling Corporate Taxes (that are the main reason there’s no jobs in America). What makes you think that you can get the government off your 2nd Amendment back by bribing them with a little more tax?
They certainly be happy to take the extra tax money, and THEN take your guns!
Actually, Lincoln imposed an income tax to pay for the war effort, and the tax was removed once the war debt was paid off. FDR imposed a permanent income tax. Love those democrats.
Have you ever heard of a “hobo”. They wandered around looking for a handout, because they had nothing. FDR, and the New Deal gave them some place to go. The homeless today are a bunch of dope fiends and parolees.
Republicans want people to manage their own retirements. I could see that going the way of home ownership, into foreclosure. Social Security could work if people paid into it up to say $250k of their income, and the opting out was limited. If congress had to pay into social security, they would make it work.
The party of the people is the Democrats. If you are a racist, hater, etc. go with the Republicans. Unless you have a $1M income, you are a serf to the GOP elite. Republicans are big business. They may use Americans to start a venture, but eventually it will be sent overseas because they live for the bottom line.
Well, this went over like a lead balloon. Suffice it to say you didn’t really think this through. Your 20 points are BS. I think you have just experienced the power of social media.
A lot of information an opinions to digest. How about the States handle this problem and keep the Federal Government out of it? I know a lot of the pricing and taxing is currently but who promised us fair. One thing we need is more dealer direct from the manufacturer that is the 21st Century way and let the distributors (wholesaler) stay back in lthe 18th Century where they got started.
I have bought many guns on line and shop “GunsAmerican” also. As a consumer, and a middle class hard working american, I am tired of having my hard working ass taxed to death just to pay for more lazy ass americans that are on welfare or social programs. Fraud and abuse is rampant and more taxes will just feed this shit. I generally go where I can get the most from my hard earned dollars. It is one thing to buy something locally and only have to pay 10-20 bucks more for it, but when I am getting hosed locally by 50-100 bucks, it just isn’t right….and worth my time going on line. I can tell you one thing for sure, if you support this tax, I definately will not be supporting anyone using your website. I also would not buy a tenth of what I buy online. Capitalism works if you let it..One of the reason on line buying has become so good is for the very reason of not having to pay the tax. You guys want to shoot yourself in the foot, go right ahead, because when this happens, there will be no reason for me to buy on line anymore.
Absolutely disagree. It’s not government’s place to “level” anything regarding commerce. Regulate, yes – make sure that commerce flows freely and safely. Insure that business “A” doesn’t have an unfair advantage over business “B”? Hell, no. The market will dictate who is successful. The internet sales tax is NOT the market.
States did just fine BEFORE there was any sales tax. I
The owner of one of my local gun stores, Guns Guns of Hobbs NM, buys up all the ammo he can get at WalMart, and then turns around and charges an insane amount of money for what I could have bought at Walmart for much less. This has been going on for probably as long as the place has been in business. They also rip you when they purchase weapons from you, and rip you again if you buy from them. I spent a lot of time looking around their store, but I couldn’t bring myself to buy from them because of the price gouging on guns during the last few months, and ammo forever. Not to mention the fact that I could have gone to WalMart and bought the same ammo that they are trying to sell me, for a third of the price.
I’m all for supporting my local gun stores. The other store we have in town is a great place, and has never participated in price gouging, but they don’t always have what I want in stock, so I have to order online.
My next point is much more important than just guns and ammo. I make a lot of purchases online. Most of the time I do so because nobody in town has what I’m looking for, but many times it’s because the only place in town that would stock it, is WalMart, and I can’t stand going in that place due to extremely poor customer service, and the fact that it takes forever to get in and out because the store is so disorganized and dysfunctional.
This bill isn’t just about guns. This bill is about everything from A to Z. I support my local gun store whenever I can, but I don’t want to pay extra on everything I buy online just so my local gun store can be a little more competitive.
And by the way, I haven’t seen a single gun listed online VS local gun store that was anywhere near 5%. The margin has been more like 20-30%. I would gladly pay local sales tax if the price was even within 10% before tax.
GunsAmerica, you are officially off my Christmas list (oh, I’m sorry – I meant holiday list).
This country has a taxing (spending) problem and my 2nd amendment rights allow me to draw the line right here, right now. Enough is enough. Taxation without representation is unconstitutional. As a small business owner, if I sell to someone in another state where I have no representation, they have no right to tax me. Who is going to fight to protect my rights in that state? I refuse to be a tax collector for the other 49 states where I do not live. The American people are a pretty easy going lot, but we can only be pushed so far and so hard.
lmaorofl
The buyer pays the taxes, you are not being taxed. If you do not want to collect taxes, then do not engage in interstate commerce. I imagine your sales are so minimal, no one will notice anyways.
The Christmas/holiday list comment shows your lack of class. You are living the life you deserve. Your family realizes it, unless they were home schooled too.
So what services are state and local governments providing to the out-of-state sellers in exchange for these taxes? Police, fire, water, sewer…?
The buyers, or customers, receive all of the above and then some. The sellers should realize that is part of doing interstate commerce. It would be up to every business to determine if it is worth the effort.
Apparently Auto Zone, Barnes & Noble, Quadratec, Summit Racing, and others have no problems shipping to CA addresses and collecting the necessary sales tax.
What I have found is that the internet suppliers have not been any cheaper than the brick and mortor stores. They are just another avenue to buy a product. As such the shipping is basically the same as the sales tax I have to pay to the brick and mortor store. I sure as hell won’t pay both. That is why I do not internet order anything from my home state. I won’t pay both and you have the gall to suggest we should. Good luck with your business and charging taxes because I certainly won’t be one of your customers. Nor would I be one after you make ludicrous request for more taxes.
I find the article interesting. Apparently, GunsAmerica wants to eliminate their site. With sales tax, transfer tax, shipping charge and background check charge (in my state); I can purchase locally as cheap or cheaper than from a GunsAmerica dealer and have the weapon more quickly.
Does GunsAmerica also support a National Sales Permit for internet retailers based upon the value of items on their website.?
This is a state issue not a national issue.
The states collect the tax, but the Internet Tax will be passed at the national level. I read your whole article, maybe you should read the Constitution. One of us has no idea what it says about interstate tariffs and I do.
i beg to differ about “we are supposed to pay taxes……..”
granted we must pay some tax to keep the government running to do the job it is supposed to do; not to use our money to buy votes so the politicians can avoid real jobs or jail. any additional tax money is only going to be used to buy votes not to benefit the country.
let’s get real here, America is in serious financial trouble that can only be solved by “living with in the budget”
like the rest of us have to do.
and if you don’t already know once a tax is in place you have more chance of living to 200 than of the tax being rolled back.
so, no new taxes of any kind.
Who’s to say what’s “fair” in pricing any commodity or service? You want to hurt gun buyers? Make guns more expensive. You want to hurt gun manufacturers? Make guns more expensive. You want to hurt America’s gun culture? Make guns more expensive. You want to hurt gun retailers? Make guns more expensive (oh, and while you’re at it, turn all of them into tax collectors for the welfare state, piling enormous administrative burdens on everyone–including brick and mortar outfits–who want to sell online). What’s the easiest way to make guns more expensive? Raise taxes. In the face of online competition, brick and mortar stores have to get better, and more creative. It’s true everywhere, not just with gun shops. Concentrate on rationalizing existing gun laws and eliminating barriers to interstate purchase, instead of doing the standard Dem thing–raise taxes. Where are my rotten tomatoes when I need them?
Actually I don’t think we are missing the point. 1. There is no way for a small operation to know the correct local sales tax rate for a specific address, there are literally thousands of them, it is not one per state or even one per county. 2. If this goes through it is yet another incentive to setup shop in Mexico or some other country where the tax cannot be enforced. I realize this is not possible for gun sales but it is for just about everything else. 3. While you are supposed to report items and pay sales tax on them to your state already as I do almost no one does this and there is some question as to whether it is considered taxation without representation. 4. When these out of state small companies start charging for sales tax how exactly will the government be able to ensure that money actually get’s to the proper authority instead of just ending up as extra profit. I think it will work just like the small back country bar and grill where only half of the sales ever end up being entered into the register.
I don’t disagree in principal,however,for the sake of argument,
Section 9 of our constitution states ‘No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State’
sooo correct…. ANYONE can sell online…. every shipping company pays fuel taxes, etc…
Why do we need GunsAmerica if buying guns online is no better than going down to the local brick and mortar shop?
Sorry, the only winner for internet sales tax is an already bloated gov’t. I’d rather have it my pocket than give it to the gov’t to waste. And by the way, I own one of the small mom and pop stores.
From what I read any company that does less then one million dollars in online sales per year will be excempt and that will cover most online gun sales
Obviously, most of you have never owned a business. No one wants to pay more taxes, but the collection of what is basically an existing tax is not a new tax. I live in Ohio, and here, like most states, there is a use tax law. In a nut shell, any time you buy goods out of state where they do not collect sales tax, you still owe the sales tax to Ohio (or your state). The only difference is, the point of origin is now going to be responsible for collecting the tax, instead of depending on the consumer to be ‘honor-bound’ and pay it. In other words, you’re already paying it if your honest. The problem is, most people don’t pay it and it gives the internet dealers an unfair advantage, just like the article states. You don’t pay a double-tax, as one writer claimed he did when he picked his gun up at a registered dealer. You same guys that are complaining about leveling the field for the brick and mortar stores will be the same guys complaining when they can’t go to that store to examine, fondle, and ask questions about a gun ther’re interested in because they went out of business. My brother and I had a gun shop years ago, and this reminds me of the people that came to us to purchase a gun and scope, which we mounted and bore-sighted as a free service, complained they could buy it cheaper at WalMart and left, then came back to us to see if we would bore-sight it for them free! A similar analogy is what happened to the wallpaper stores. Customers would come in, look at their samples, have them estimate the quantities, and then buy the wallpaper on-line where they didn’t have any overhead. Go ahead and stop supporting GunsAmerica, the NRA, and any other pro-gun group that supports the tax. YOU’RE JUST WHAT THE GUN CONTROL GROUPS ORDERED!
I buy through an internet dealer. I tell him what I want, he finds it and orders it with half down in cash and the other half when I pick the gun up. He charges $20 for the transfer fee and phone call and he collects and remits the normal sales tax for our area. Also, on my tax return I select the option to pay the Use Tax to the state for all other internet sales. No new taxes, just the ones already on the books.
Although you make a good argument for the internet sales tax, as a conservative republican i cannot support any new taxes or any tax increases. You are trying to use a tax to correct an outdated business model, of manufacturers, distributers and retailers. Manufactures have enjoyed the benefit of large distributers placing orders for large numbers of gun to fill there warehouses once or twice a year, this has driven prices and margins down much more so than internet sales as far as gun sales.
At the retail level I have known several gun shop owners over the years, and all have said that they never made a living selling guns, it was the ammo, arrows, targets, scopes and cleaning supplies where they made their money. These items have gone to internet sales and there is just no way a small gun store competes with a big box retailer (Wal-Mart) or online sales on inventory, selection or price.
I wish I had the answer to save the small gun dealer, as I miss going down on a Saturday morning and just hang out (and buy something I probably already had 2 of ) with my fellow gun owners, kind of like “Cheers” for southerners. Lately I have seen several gun dealers add hunting clothing, reloading supplies, some of that bow and arrow stuff along with their guns and look to be doing better.
One final thought, if you want to keep your local gun dealer, then you have to buy from your local gun dealer even if he’s $10 or $100 more than you can get it elsewhere, that’s how you save the local gun dealer!
You forgot one…. “cost of doing business tax.” Yes, it reallys exists in Philly (I believe) as they are suing Yuengling Brewery for not paying this tax even though the Brewery is 10 or more miles outside the city!
It is 100% correct and valid. Change is always difficult but this is a change that is overdue. Very few people have even understood the point of why guns are specific, and nearly everyone just doesn’t want to pay more for their guns. You can’t escape taxes. Other people are paying the taxes to carry your weight.
ADMINISTRATOR is wrong again. You CAN escape sales taxes – in Alaska, Montana, Oregon, New Hampshire and Delaware. Ten percent of us got it right on sales taxes. As in we do not have any! If you want to pay your sales tax, ADMINISTRATOR, go right ahead. You know how to do it in your state. Fill out your forms and send it along to your state treasury. But I bet in the long run you will be like Warren Buffet. You want everyone to pay for YOU! Kevin D has it exactly right…this is the stupidest blog entry yet.
You folks at GOA did an excellent job fighting against the proposed new gun laws, but you are way off base on this issue.
Once the camel has his nose under the tent, it is “Katy bar the door!” All internet sales will then be taxed. Your argument could easily be applied to just about every product sold over the internet. Then the question becomes, “are we under-taxed?” I think the answer is an obvious, “NO!”
Perhaps you should put your efforts toward eliminating all sales taxes for everything. That would also level the playing field, but, of course, that would never be allowed to happen.
With the current taxation, we have taxes on taxes on taxes. If anyone, is able to find any money that has not already been taxed several times, I want to hear about it.
Sorry for the long post…not such a good writer.
Not trying to start an argument here although it’s difficult to avoid these days with people and media talking past each other on a routine basis.
We’ve either forgotten, (or never knew in the first place), most of what came before us….and why gun control legislation was inacted. This is interesting stuff and vital to everyone’s understanding of gun control issues. Copy and paste this to your browser: http://www.infoplease.com/spot/guntime1.html#1791. It’s one writers’ chronology of gun-associated legislation since the ratification of the 2nd Amendment in 1791.
Instead of disagreeing and turning away, (everyone has done it I think), consider that historically, legislation has already restricted the 2nd amendment. It’s been progressive. It’s been systematic. You cannot run away from it now. Also, consider that the people who adopt and embrace legislation based on the actions of a few nutbars in society, (gangsters in the 30’s, Oswald, Sirhan, etc), do not comprehend the danger in their own bias and how they will negatively effect the freedom of others. For many reasons, these people just don’t see the erosion of their own freedom any more than Custer saw looming defeat. They see themselves as saviors and they feel good about that. So, this most recent “stinging defeat” of gun legislation truly was huge to them. But, in the end, the vote was also marginal. Where would gun-owners be today without the NRA, (which has it’s roots in 1871)?
In the United States we have two, maybe three generations who are completely removed from the farm who care nothing for their roots or history. Life has been relatively soft. Critical, objective thinking was probably never attempted. ‘Group-think’ has brought them this far. They believe what the teachers and news media tell them…without so much as a question. The enemy is not clearly defined. And, they vote for whatever makes them feel good with not much thought for the future of the country. There WILL be more gun legislation. ‘Just a matter of time and just a matter of severity. And, it will be enacted for the same historical reasons by the same voter mindset that misses the mark entirely.
So, if there needs to be more support for local sport shops or online gun/ammo sources in the way of higher prices due to an extra tax, I’m willing to pay that. But, only up to an as-yet-to-be-defined limit. The gun-control lobby has already priced a lot of people out of this game by creating a huge rise in price-points on even the most basic weapons. (Anybody tried to buy a box of ANY ammo lately?) This, in itself seems unsustainable. At some point, (maybe now?), it would seem that gun buyers will just give up and cut back in great enough numbers to allow weapons ban(s), ammo restriction(s), mag size restrictions, certain calibers and eventually seizure or (attempted) national registration of all of weapons. The younger generations aren’t buying very many guns now. Raise prices, they’ll buy fewer.
I use Guns America and GunBroker to shop. I do compare prices to the locals. Most often, after the $35-50 FFL fee and shipping, there isn’t enough incentive to buy online unless it’s something the locals don’t have or can’t get.
Sorry G.A. But your 20 reasons are not good enough for me to fall in with your way of thinking . I’m with nonny on this one Wasteful spending on the part of the goverment does not make me feel for your cause to increase taxes.
If your position is to help the brick and mortar stores, than the brick and mortar owners should be a little more considerate of it’s clientel as far as pricing goes. You are saying that their sales profit is between 10-50%, then you have not purchased a weapon in a gun shop lately. I can name at least 2 sites that are brick and mortar and on line sellers and the sales price is way below that 10-50% profit margin compared to any of the shops here in Florida. I have purchased at least a dozen firearms through your site and have verified prices locally and am shocked to see the huge difference, add sales tax here and it only hurts more. One thing is certain if you persist in this tax issue you are not only going to lose me as a customer but hundreds more. Enough with the taxes already give us a break, at times the only difference on a lot of items especially high end items is the tax break that we get
I agree with Tom O. The tax is already owed, and has been owed by law in most states for generations.
The people who are NOT voluntarily already paying state USE TAX are essentially ignorant or scofflaws, or both, and, in some cases, cheating local first responders out of funding they depend on. Strikes me as kind of the “something for nothing” mentality that produced the unfortunate results we saw in the last presidential election.
I think it is a great idea to tighten up collection rules.
I have been a small business owner for more than 25 years. I love the fact that nearly all these comments come from people that have never run a business. ” I do not want to pay sales tax” “No more Taxes” Sorry but you all of full of S*#T. Step up and stick your money out there. Go put 500 to a million in inventory, make a payroll, and pay those property taxes then go on here and tell me online is not hurt the brick and motor stores. Want jobs? Look at the online stores that have taken 100 of thousands of jobs out of the market. You pay tax at the store what makes the internet any different, NOTHING! Pay the sales tax due to the state just like you pay when you buy dinner or paper to wipe your ASS! The internet is a great thing you find items that maybe are not available where you are but that does not relive you of your obligation to pay the tax due! I will be the first to say government is corrupt and should cut spending by 10 for every dollar taxes are raised, but this has nothing to due with you paying what you would have paid in sales tax at a store just because you bought the dam thing on the internet you still bought!!!!!
Mike,
Why should you HAVE to pay sales tax period? You already paid INCOME tax on the money you are spending at the store/internet. You can also stick 500 to a million into inventory and put it in a wharehouse and sell online. I don’t think all online resellers get away with little to no business expense.
First I want to say I’ve bought all but one gun from a real store. I love going in and talking face to face with the person selling the product.
Now on to my rant.
This BS that the brick and mortar stores didn’t jack the prices of their weapons is BS. I as well as 100s of 1000s of people have been to both online and physical stores. Both have made a killing on the sales. Not once have I seen a store say “I refuse to over price this weapon just to make a little extra cash.” And don’t even get me on ammo. You all were making money before this artificial pricing so why even do it? The simple reason is MONEY!
As a consumer, you have to go where you can get it cheapest. We wouldn’t go online if we didn’t feel like we were getting screwed at the store front. Most importantly, is the customer service? I don’t know how many times I’ve walked into a gun store or an electronic store and have been treated like crap.
If you treat people nice, be helpful and respectful, the people would be behind you. But to come here and state WE NEED this tax shows up you do neither. You said in your own column that buyers are using “local “tabletop dealer” who carries an FFL license for a hobby” to buy the guns. So we don’t need you or your store fronts. If you all went away we could also buy factory direct. That statement alone shows what’s wrong with our country. We the buy don’t need you. YOU NEED THE BUYERS!!!
And one last thing. Don’t bash the read and call them lazy just because you can’t get your point out in fewer words. You’re the writer; it’s your job to word your article in a way that makes the reader keep reading.
Oh, and you didn’t do a very good job at that either.
Exactly, I have purchased well over 20 guns in the last year, only one off the internet. That one off the internet was only 2 months ago and was an AR new in the box AT SUGGESTED RETAIL price from a dealer in Kentucky who said that he refuses to raise his prices. But being as all the brick and mortar stores are raping me in prices where I live, I had to resort to the internet and have this shipped to my over-the-table FFL.
I think Obama, and his cronies, have forgotten what the forefathers founded this country for. England had taxed the public so much that it was hard to survive. The taxes were also passed without the people having a say so. Today’s government has forgotten why they were elected, to represent the people in their district. But, most reps are more interested in kissing Obummer’s butt than voting for the good of their constituents. That is where we need to remember, WE ARE THEIR EMPLOYERS, and they work for us. If you don’t believe your rep is voting in your best interest, work for their opponent when the next election comes around, but make sure you email them and let them know how you feel, as if you don’t, don’t cry when they vote against your desires.
I think we all agree we are currently paying more taxes than we should be, but have you held your reps nose to the grinding stone and held them responsible for voting in new taxes? If not, shut your mouth, but if you have, yell and make yourself heard. Like I said before: Your reps are just that, YOUR reps and make sure they remember that.
You actually believe that fairy tale. Once the colonies were self sufficient, why pay a King on the other side of the ocean? No one has ever liked paying taxes. At least today we are provided with services for our tax dollars.
I do not see anything going Obama’s way. Even with a majority in the Senate, almost 400 bills have died from the filibuster. An unheard of number in US history. The Republicans control the House of Representatives due to the gerrymandering of districts. Obama cannot get routine presidential appointments filled.
If you are so down on Obama, what about Bush #43? Bush used our troops like pawns. Then he declares an end to hostilities in the Middle East, but our troops continued to be killed. What was that all about? Posing for the cameras in an election year. His wars ruined the American economy. Republican senators in 1999 passed the leigislation that collapsed the housing market in 8 years.
Where is Romney today? For someone that wanted to lead the free world, he is in seclusion. No opinion on anything? And people thought he was most qualified candidate ever? Actually, he is the worst ever, tied with the Democrat from ’88, also from MA.
Eliminate all sales taxes to level the playing field. I’m taxed enough already.
This is not a new tax. This bill allows a tool to collect tax that is already due them. In Kentucky you are obligated to pay sales tax on purchases made outside the state online. Most don’t, honest ones do. This just makes it fair to all state taxpayers as well as, making it an even playing field for the brick and mortar stores.
stay out of government anything, because people find a way to save a couple bucks the feds want more money for the sale, We don’t need FF anything. towns use to take responsibility for there own safety, do the background check of course, but it’s the owners right and responsibility to take care of the weapon, not to sell to someone who they don’t know about, same a western gun runners, they were taken care of by locals, why do we need people flipping ATF badges because we ask about buying a gun, did’nt want it just wanted to check for someone and feds were at my door. bite me, i’m legal, free and 21 it’s my right to care for myself I will protect my things with no one’s help, besides by time your storm troopers arrive i’ll be dead because I didn’t pass your test because of something I did 40 years ago, now you want to charge more money because we found a way to save a few bucks, stupid
What about me and the people that live in my state of Alaska. We don’t have a sales tax, so they want to make us pay the tax charged in the state where the business is located. This will force us to pay the sales tax of the state where the business is located. Now we will be supporting another state with out out of state taxes. We do not have the brick and mortar stores you people have in the lower 48, and we are very dependent on internet sales. Suddenly the internet has opened up the world of retail sales to us. Now you want to tax us? No to this tax!
Firearms sales are a strawman argument at best. No one makes a lot of money on new firearms sales for the reasons cited in the article. In one sentence guns are commoditized and prices rarely vary by 5% and in the next, the wholesalers are making a killing despite shipping costs and the FFL fee.
Brick and mortars, the Mom and Pops this article is concerned with, have limited inventory compared to the internet and cannot compete regardless of sales tax. Want to buy muzzleloading gear, target ammunition and a box of primers? Good luck finding all three at one store and good luck finding anything not marked up 50-100%.
The whole thing really has nothing to do with the internet. State laws revolve around whether you shipped the item out of state or not. Stupid thing is, state laws of where the recipient is usually already say that you have to pay sales tax on what you bought but were not charged tax on. Even the smallest items apply, but it’s just hardly ever enforced. Once you start dealing with significant items such as four wheelers, trailers, and vehicles though, this becomes an issue that they like to enforce, even if the item isn’t registered. Four wheelers are very bad about this. For example if you live in Kentucky and you buy one from out of state and not voluntarily pay Kentucky sales tax, if the dealership you bought from gets audited, you could get in trouble. Guns are not exempt from this. You’re supposed to voluntarily pay the tax on guns. It’s just that there would be people rioting in the streets if the government tracked down a gun purchase in this manner, so since it isn’t enforced, nobody does it. So, why isn’t gunsamerica saying we should enforce this? It would do exactly what they want without the burden being placed on small business owners such as myself. You see, I sell trailers online, so I would be hit by this. As long as you have states like New York charging sales tax regardless of whether sales tax was paid when it was purchased, then guys like me will lose sales due to customers realizing that they have to pay sales tax, TWICE. That means we buy less guns and contribute less to the NRA. Chew on that for awhile.
It looks to me like you’ve assembled a really nice list of the way consumers have benefited from internet sales and concluded that we should eliminate those benefits. I disagree.
The results of an internet tax are completely economically predictable, the brick and motor stores will raise their prices to absorb the difference in the internet price without tax to that with tax, and consumers lose.
This is analogous to when Walmart starting expanding, “everyone” said that the low prices (which overwhelmingly benefit poor consumers) would drive the boutique stores out of business. This never happened because people were now saving so much on the things they that didn’t value, they were able to afford spend more on specialty items that they did.
Protectionist economic policies hurt consumers, hurt product quality and I think you are wrong to support them in any form.
Alot of my business and my highest profit margin product ($25 for 5 minutes of time) is transfers from internet sales. Before the internet, there were catalog sales, and there is no difference. They never hurt anyone, just a different market and business model. People by local wants for instant gratification. State and local governments are the greediest entities in existence. They have enough tax revenue, they need to learn to stop wasting it. As far as brick and mortar shops, the only thing hurting them is large chain stores that buy in bulk and sell on the local market. Its been a while since I took a college business or economics class but I’m sure the fundamentals are the same as they always were. Much like the anti-gun crowd’s arguments, the opinion of this article contradicts fact.
As a one man Brick and Mortar, I feel the pain you describe, and greater cost to internet sales would likely benefit my business. Let’s examine our core values. Government is too big, they steal too much from productive people, destroy liberty at every turn. And you advocate FEEDING THIS MONSTER SO IT WILL EAT US LAST? I admire what you have accomplished, but I think you should reexamine your position.
Sincerely,
AJK
Nothing in this argument says why we should support the tax. Wholesalers are still going to exist even if there are taxes. What is the authors point here?
There’s just One purpose behind the tax. To Tax us All into Govt Dependency.. Make us All poor, and the Govt Grows in Power.. The 1% rich can just Buy their Freedom from the Govt. The Illegals get free cell phones, healthcare, food, and soon Free internet too. I, on the other hand am thinking about moving to a tent, because I soon will no longer be able to afford, a home, tv, internet, cell phone, utilities, and Healthcare is the worst cost. Costs of most everything keep going up, and that includes Taxes, and Heathcare. My Pay is decreasing to the point of doing without all but food and shelter. I suppose then the internet tax won’t affect me.. If only I was an Illegal…
Tom, how does paying taxes make your poor? The lack of income is the stumbling block. Who killed the middle class? When corporate America started closing down factories to ship the jobs overseas in the 1980s got the ball rolling. The party of “big business”, Republicans, are primarily at fault. But Democrats were on-board for NAFTA, and signed off on everything else.
Why does Republican senators filibuster every jobs program that is introduced? They want to discredit the President at every turn. They want to blame the slow economic recovery on him. It is not patriotic. Republicans do not even acknowledge Bush #43, the person most responsible for squandering America’s wealth.
The President is living the “American Dream”. He has done nothing to diminish it for ANY other American. On the other hand, in 2012, the option was Romney, the son of PRIVILEGE. Romney makes so much money that he does not have the time to drive a car or even prepare is own meals. Like he would be sympathetic to the average American.
I expect the President, as the leader of the free world, to govern, and not be bothered with mundane daily tasks. Likewise, the Secret Service taking his children to school is acceptable.
I’m not supporting more taxes!! Ill support sending the Somalians home instead of bringing them over here to collect social security, getting free education, and giving them free money to buy businesses with. They don’t even pay taxes!!!! Why do I have to pay for them to live free!!! Where’s my tax break??!!
And I don’t care if the tax is owed the govt that abuses me while giving the immigrant the better benefit of the doubt. While they rape and pillage the country I’ve lived in my whole life. No I will not support more taxes. I enjoy buying off line for the simple pleasure the govt is cheated while they love the high life and spend millions of dollars on wasteful things. So gunsamerica you fail and anyone that supports this needs to open their eyes and see the country before its Somalia, Nigeria, India, and Pakistan all over again.
So, you support internet sales taxes. Stupid, really stupid. You have lost me as a customer.
I read the whole thing. You don’t get it. This is same insanity as people trying to save Best Buy or Borders from closing. The era of brick-and-mortar is dying – for every industry, gun stores are not immune. I know it’s sad, no one likes to see a mom-n-pop store go under, but there is no other option.
Also, no one has been smart enough to fill the void with something makes sense, yet. That is, to open “showcase” stores where you can see and touch products, and then they help you find the best price on the internet – and that showcase store would either charge a small fee at the door or a subscription fee. That is the only future of brick-and-mortar I see. It’s what Best Buy should’ve done 3 years ago – and they would’ve cornered that market. With a physical store, you have: rent, electric, water, insurance, employees, store displays, dumpsters, loss/theft, etc, etc – it’s not mathematically possible to compete with a distribution center which also offers free shipping. Traditional brick-and-mortar stores, as they exist today, are extinct. It’s just a matter of time before they finish dying off.
So, I say let the cards fall where they may – but the idea of saving brick-and-mortar stores is just putting your effort into the wrong idea. I get why you’d want to, but it will never, ever, ever work. The free-market will figure out some replacement – but saving that dying business model is not the answer.
On top of that – you want to support yet another tax? C’mon man, what, we’re not enough like France yet??
You are completely ignoring two very damaging facts.
1. This will require a re-write of every website in America. You just cannot fathom how difficult a task this is. Literally billions of dollars in expense.
2. It will require a team of accountants to keep this mess straight. Every municipality, city, county has different rules and tax rates. I can’t even imagine the nightmare of trying to keep it under control.
This is one of the worst ideas Congress and tax’n spend Obama has come up with yet.
VOTE NO! NO Freekin way!
I sell a little on eBay and will probably have to stop if this law passes, as I have a very slim profit margin as it is without taking more time to research what county of what state my buyers live in and working out sales tax.
If you own a business, and are doing business on the internet, you need to invest in the software program to calculate and track sales tax. It would be a business write-off. That is part of interstate commerce.
If you are selling Grandpa’s old albums and fishing lures, no one should expect you to collect sales tax.
Which is why there is a floor for the responsability, as has been explained a half a dozen times already.
Everyone seems to have their hand out. Michelle can fly to Africa with her mother and daughters designated as White House “Senior Staff”. How much taxpayer money did that cost? Just the plane expenses were over $400.000 bucks. And of course two trips to Hawaii for the family. Hmmmm? Who paid for that? Could it have been taxpayer money, I wonder? Of course there are no secret service agents, aids, cooks, etc required to go but if there was, who paid for that? It couldn’t have been taxpayers money. Has someone gotten to the NRA too? These people suggesting MORE TAXES are the ones who are public servants and have salries and benefits they would never disclose to the rest of us—–taxpayers. You work your whole life and and the people who want more taxes want your Social Security (which by the way was declared non-taxible by the president) when it was inacted, They can take 50% of your earnings (so someone can fly all around the world) or vote themselves a raise. And oh yeah, they want more taxes on guns but want to take them away at the same time. You try to buy any ammo lately?
I think the whole system should be revamped and these greedy — —– should be forced to do their jobs, have the same exact benefits we have. Whoever put this bill up is probably looking for a kickback. If this pisses you off, that’s just tough! No taxes on free speech that I know of.
Please no more taxes.I donot buy any of your ideas about taxes.I live on a fixed income and what i have left i use for my shooting enjoyment please no more taxes.Thank you
Are you freaking kidding me? It is appalling that GunsAmerica would support this. Spend your time instead on trying to eliminate ALL forms of taxation on guns. This is an essential RIGHT enumerated (not granted) by the Constitution. To tax the sale and transfer of guns is like taxing the publication of a political blog. Or forcing you to pay $20 to a cop who stops you to avoid an unreasonable search and seizure. The right to own a gun is a constitutionally protected right that truly is the foundation on which all other rights rest. Spend your time fighting to protect this right rather than caving in and conceding this pathetic attempt to further enslave the populace……
Wow, this is a great point! A tax could be seen as an infringement.
BRAVO! Well said!
There is a reason why the First Amendment was first. You are by no means a constitution scholar. To an extent, all personal property is taxed. Automobiles are taxed, registered, inspected, etc. Why should guns be any different?
Americans have more freedoms today than ever before. Free yourself and go live in a cave, on your own property. I am tired of seeing bums in my national parks.
You are the delusional party to this confab sir. The National parks do not belong to you anymore than your house belongs to you. Actually you have less say in the use and care of the National parks.
Automobiles were not enumerated in the Constitution. The Constitution is a set of negative liberties placed upon the govt so that the people of our country may remain free of tyranny. Yet you persist in pushing for a cage to be place around you so that you may feel safe. That sir is a mental issue that should be looked at by a professional…
The idea that we should accept more regulation because we have more regulation and don’t want more regulation is INSANE.
I generally like the Guns America Blog, but you are way off on this one. Anything that impedes on the free market is a mistake. If Cannindale and Gibson buyers want to pay artificially inflated prices, let them. “Internet Savvy” buyers will continue to earn our discounts. The states, just like the Feds, need to look for was to spend less instead of ways to screw people out of more money.
I’ve bought from both online and B&M gun retailers. Sometimes the deal online is too good to pass up. Sometimes the convenience of a local store is worth the cost. Those stores that survive have done so by offering value to ther customers. “Leveling the playing ground” (and I hate that euphemism for unwarranted government intrusion and interference) only takes away incentives for businesses to adapt and thrive. That never works.
Sorry guys, but you’re just wrong here.
I would be 100% in favor of not only an internet sales tax, but a general federal sales tax if it was accompanied by a decrease (and eventual elimination) of income tax.
This is intended to be another nail in the coffin of the small businessman. Only a large business can support the overhead necessary to collect and remit the taxes to something like 1000 different jurisdictions which impose sales taxes in this country. It’s in the same category as is the advocacy of expensive regulation of the marketplace by big businesses. Obamacare, anyone?
I will advocate against it to all my Senators and my Congressman.
If you want to make this argument, then argue for the Fair Tax and eliminate all local sales taxes.
What a cry baby, have you lost your friggin mind. I spend a lot of money on Amazon, Ebay and many other internet sites that do not collect sales tax, I buying everything from computers to office supplies.
A sales tax on internet sales is beyond stupid. What I save on sales tax helps pay the shipping and saves a lot of automobile expense in the process.
I should pay more taxes? What endangers our second amendment rights is idiots like you.
What a bunch of bull crap!!! If you or anybody else starts taxing internet sales, then where’s the savings incentive to buy anything when you add state sales tax on top of the S&H costs and having to wait for your order? If your intention is to support killing off internet business and sites this is the way to put yourself outta business GA, goodbye Gunbroker, AuctionArms, Ebay, Amazon been nice knowing ya.
If those that support this crap are going Commie pinko on us then screw you, take me off your email list, that fricking goes for the NRA too if they support it… NO NEW TAXES!!! I’m Fricking Taxed Enough Already!!!
California already collects sales tax through it’s FFL transfers from out of state. When I purchase a firearm , even through Guns America, have to pay 8% before I pick up. There are already use tax laws in other states which require buyers to pay at the end of the year.
There are several states that do this, as the article explains. The whiners are obviously from states that do not, and apparently many of them can’t manage a 4th grade reading level to actual read what the article says.
GA…I teach a course on risk communication. Sounds as many of your customer disagree with your tax assessment. You can disagree but being rude will not win you points, nor is intellectual. You made your points and others theirs. Respectfully, disagree and the market will handle it accordingly. If your right all is good. If not your company and others will pay with less profits. BTW…will you now offer free shipping to offset the taxes so that I am willing to buy here verses going down the street. Also, many of the “brick and mortar” stores are price gouging. Is that good? Respect differences of opinion or you will hurt your business.
Did you really think that anyone thought this would be a popular opinion? 90%+ of the comments here are from people who didn’t even bother to read the article.
No More Taxes. Leave the Internet Alone already. Your points all make sense to you, but all it means in the end is more taxes for all of us or U. S.. We should all stop trying to justify more taxes and figure out how to cut them so we can become a prosperous country again. Just my 2 cents
I don’t agree with your line of reasoning. We are a brick and mortar store and have been for over a decade. When all the frenzy hit we had close to 200 ARs in stock. We are in a small town and we sold nearly every one of them for the prices we had on them from months before.
We know for a fact that many, many of those went right on to the internet for sale. An individual can ship to a FFL dealer. Therefore, that non brick and mortar “dealer” made a high percentage of profit. Being in a small town, if we try to raise the prices to the going rate on the internet in such times, we are accused of gouging.
So, we started retaining a percentage of new arrivals for internet sales. We only gained about 10% overall in profits by doing so and the increased hassle of shipping preparation, constant monitoring of the internet site (yours), and communication level to be given 100% positive feedback is barely worth the 10%.
If we have to start dealing with multiple state taxing authorities, we’re done. We’ve sold about $80K on your site in the last 90 days. That’s 1% and the monthly fees you will no longer get. HMMMMMMM
80,000$ in 90 days!? Man I’ve been waiting on ordered weapons for months! I haven’t had a kel-tec or ruger 380 for months. haven’t seen 9mm 40 or 22 in months. Haven’t gotten new pistols other than taurus in a month. and you are crying?
You haven’t used us, and the internet in general, in a non-boom period. A monkey could sell 80k in guns over the last month here, just randomly pecking away at the keyboard with his nose. Wait until the hangover from this when you don’t see a customer for a week, and the few customers you would get bought their guns from online discounters.
Does your boss know that you are trying to cut his throat?
Taxation is a necessary evil….and I support taxation upto the Biblical level of 10% but giving the goverment an internet sales tax…will shoot us in the head. If you think compromising on this will save brick and mortar stores ….keep kidding yourself.
The goverment needs more money to bribe government workers into voting for them for office…..the average gov worker is already making 30% more than the average citizen… And exorbitant government retirements are bankrupting city ,state and county goverments (because they cant print money) and something must be done to give the tax payer some relief or every city will go the route of Detroit losing 91% of your tax base is tough on a
town. 50 years of crooked Democratic Politicians is hard on the tax payer (so they leave). The solution:
“Each state needs to pass a law: We the people reserve the right to impeach any government officer for multiple
misdeameanors or a felony or failure to uphold their oath of office ( to preserve and defend the Constitution of the United States)”
I would serve on the impeachment court for free in my state and I bet alot of other gun ownerw would too.
Only reason government workers are making more than the average worker is Republican CEOs starting sending the factory jobs overseas in the 1980s with the blessing of Reagan. So blame the Republicans for diluting the job market. I was an auto mechanic prior to my civil service career. In the 1980s, they paid the same. Now a mechanics job is working at Jiffylube. Every gas station used to have a garage. Now it is snacks.
What is an outrageous retirement? The 30 year pension for the sheriff is going to be a lot more than what the 20 year deputy will receive. Also, pensions are negotiated through collective bargaining. A bipartisian task.
Blaming everything on Democrats shows how low class you are. Hawaii is the only state that has had emocratic control for 50 years. Remember Bush #43 was a Republican. The way you talk about impeachment, you are just pathetic.
5 year olds still buy into that crap? Given that my local brick and mortar gun shop just expanded I’m supposed to believe they’re incapable of competing with online sales. One thing is for sure my local shop hasn’t jacked up the price of 9mm fmj to $80 for a box of 50.
You say a Ruger Firearm is 1/4 the price of a bike and guitar. Then I say, the bike and guitar is way over priced. As is most things are in the US. Before the inflation boom of firearms they where fairly reasonably priced. More so than the bike and guitar are.
Like other people have said, we pay enough in taxes. If we pay more tax, the government will spend more and not take the money to balance the budget.
Stop the spending, lower taxes. Sold out much recently? Yes, you just did.
And what becomes of a state like Oregon, which has no sales tax? Is it business as usual? I’m not sure which way to go, tax or not. I’m leaning NOT. Would it even affect Oregon?
It would not affect OR. In CA, I pay taxes on everything except groceries. I cannot remember when I did not pay taxes on an internet purchase. At some point, every other state is going to realize the revenue they are missing out on.
I think the article should have focused more on where we buy guns. The gun shops I went to 20 years ago, are all gone, with the exception of one. There is a chain of nice gunshops now, but they are 1:30 away. My local gun store is a Big 5. Other states say business is booming, but I do not see it.
I buy on guns on the internet for the same reason I buy most other things on the internet – it is the only place that has what I want. The so called brick and mortar stores don’t have my business because they only carry what sells fast (Glocks and ARs). Gibson guitars were mentioned – go to your local music store and see if you can find one – they only carry cheap stuff. If you want a cool military arm, they never heard of it. My area stores will never carry anything that Atlantic has. When my cool guns are received at the local store, I want to think they would catch on but they don’t. The internet tax advantage only comes into play when the gun is worth more than $1000 because you have to pay for shipping and transfer fee for online transactions. I would guess the vast majority of guns sold are under $1000. Most of mine from the internet were.
Simply put, I will stop buying on the internet. I will stop wasting money on things I “don’t really need”. According to the responses on here that I have read, there are many more like me. GunsAmerica will no longer have an audience and therefor will have no alure for people to list their items. No items listed means no income for GunsAmerica! But think of it this way GA, no income, no income tax. If you guys are at the top of your game with this article…. I feel sorry for you! ps… this article just cost you one customer, for listing or buying off of your site.
Well, I will probably spend more time on GA once it is back to hunters and sportsmen instead of the anti-government, I need a 75 round drum magazine for every gun I own, morons. Who needs high capacity magazines other than criminals and drug dealers?
I want a Winchester 1895 in 405. I am going to look on GA because somebody, somewhere has one for sale. I am selling a particular rifle and I wonder what the asking prices are. I am going to look on GA, because they are the internet firearm reference.
Gun ownership follows no socio-economic model. People either like guns, or they do not. If the Second Amendment was a tree, you are on the dead branch that needs to be pruned.
Not convinced !
I do not believe that an internet sales tax is necessary. In Indiana, and I suspect in other states, the Income tax forms have a section that pertains to “out-of-state” purchases.
Honesty will not change how much tax is owed on a purchase, only when it is collected.
“Schedule 4: Other Taxes [IC 6-2.5-3]
Line 1 – Use tax on out-of-state purchases If you have purchased items while you were outside Indiana, through
the mail (for instance, by catalog or offer through the mail), through radio or television advertising and/or over the Internet, these purchases may be subject to Indiana sales and use tax, if sales tax was not paid at the time of purchase. This tax, called “use” tax, is figured at 7 percent.”
Mark B is right this kind of tax collection system is only viable for larger companies that can afford the staff and software to handle paying sales tax to a multitude of different jurisdictions. You for get each lousy county in many states have part of the sales tax, so to assume you would only have to pay to 50 jurisdictions this sales tax which is onerous enough just wait until every sub didtrict wants their cut too. It is not good to ge this started as it will end up putting a lot of small businesses out of business and then the states will wonder whay ll the money they are getting on sales tax isn’t making up for the other taxes they are not getting because a multitude of small businesses of all types have gone under. More taxes and a complex system as this would be would actually stunt our economy. More government control is always (I mean always) bad in the long run.
The ability for one individual to trade/sell firearms /ammo to another individual should be beyond the scrutiny of state and federal regulatory commissions. The Gun Control Act of 1968 established a class of felons with infringed constructional rights and no hope for the restoration of those rights. Property is a state matter and any tax, outside of sales tax, against firearms and ammunition is an infringement against the 2nd Amendment.
I live in Pennsylvania and pay State Tax on my internet gun purchases. It is called a “Use Tax”. Other states also have similar tax although many internet buyers never pay this state sales tax they owe to their state. “WHAT IS USE TAX? In PA Use tax is the 6 percent tax due on the purchase of items or services subject to Pennsylvania sales tax, when sales tax is not charged by and paid directly to the seller. Purchases made over the Internet, through toll-free numbers (800, 888, 866 and 877),from mail order catalogs and from out-of-state locations are examples of purchases subject to use tax when sales tax is not paid”. Reference: PA USE TAX FORM http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/document/628893/pa-1_pdf
Correction: I bought 4 on line. Also, the fourth sentence should read “The ones I bought online are no longer…”
Friend, there are two reasons you pay a lot in taxes (I suppose that is what you mean by “enough”). One is that the very wealthy do NOT pay “enough”. The other is that the Federal Government engages in international adventurism (invading countries, in other words). Do not want to pay “enough”? Easy: Have the super wealthy pay their part, and stop military waste. That takes care of if.
mOST of you are ALL missing the point here.
this is not more or new taxes
this is to have everyone pay or collect the tax that the real Dealers collect for their State.
to not allow the internet dealer to take the free ride at our expense.
Do You Get It Now?
its like you register your car and pay your State fee’s, but your neighbor cheats, and registers his car to a fake residence in Oregon, or wherever and does not pay his share as you do.
You are right, and he is wrong.
Some one’s cheese has completely slipped off their cracker! We don’t need more taxes. We need smaller government. All government is evil. If you make it small, it limits the evil it can do! If you want to level the playing field, get rid of the sales taxes completely… or would you rather the nanny state grow larger on the increased sales taxes so they can more effectively attack our Constitutional rights with our money?
You are totally self sufficient? You live off the power grid? You grow your own food? You never travel on a paved road? You are on the internet so you rely on the government to bring you the www. Remember when the phone company owned your telephone? 1978, all telephones were leased to consumers. Do not dare to say you have less rights today.
Think about it when you cash that social security check.
After yesterdays tornado in OK, I guess it is a good thing big government can step in with aid. Every county in OK is “red”. No other state can say that. Within hours, FEMA (big government) was on site. Americans helping Americans, thank you Mr. President. If it was up to congress, they would want to debate it, like they did after “Sandy”. There is a reason why it is called “emergency response”.
Oh please this was a HAARP storm they caused it.
Really? Who flips the switch? A cabinet level appointee, or a E-5 buck sergeant at Camp Pendleton?
I assume it is in the lair of the plutocrat who actually runs the country.
The points are well reasoned and well taken. We must preserve the Mom-and-Pop bricks and mortar stores; make the playing field level. There are no new taxes proposed; just the sales taxes actually owed if the item had been bought locally.
The points are well reasoned and well taken. We must preserve the Mom-and-Pop bricks and mortar stores; make the playing field level. There are no new taxes proposed; just the sales taxes actually owed if the item had been bought locally.
I don’t support you on this one! How about reading the feedback you are getting on this IDEA of supportoing more taxes and “Leveling The Playing Field ? ” How about we level the playing field and make all of these “cry babies” at the retail outlet level have to charge “shipping and handling” in addition to what they already charge. When you add in shipping charges and FFL transfer fees to “online purchases” you are paying more than you would pay in taxes. If you think the State is getting screwed out of tax revenue, you probably think that the politicians that waste our tax dollars are “Honest”. You are just buying into the kind of Krap that will put a lot of small time buisness people out of business because of additional paperwork and make their products become “Priced Out Of The Market”. Some Level Playing Field”! What part of the LEFT are you on ? Keep the internet what it was meant to be ….”For the People” not the Government!
Speaking strictly about guns, your article fails to address a Constitutional point with regards to 2nd Amendment rights. Just as a poll tax is an infringement on my right to vote, so is any tax on arms an infringement on my 2nd Amendment rights. As we all know, the 2nd Amendment contains the wording “shall not be infringed” so any infringement on this Amendment is unconstitutional. If you need any more evidence to the effect of the tyranny through taxation you have but to look at what is happening with cigarette taxes. Sure, your tax rate on firearms purchases may only be around 7% now, but what happens when the government decides to raise it to 300% like is happening to cigarette taxes in some states? Do you trust your government not to raise those taxes as a means of a back door ban when they can’t pass legislation to the same effect? Have you ever known government to drop a tax or lower a tax rate? Once they get a foot in the door they will eventually be making themselves at home in your house. Please don’t make it any easier for them by publishing articles like this to diminish our vigilance against government tyranny.
this isn’t a singled out tax it is a general tax on all retail goods. Come on get a clue.
Good luck; they do not get it. Other than groceries, what retail goods are not taxed?
Personally I want no internet taxes. No taxes at all or at least the very barest minimum. I would like to see MAP pricing with at least a 20% profit margin. In case anyone is wondering that is why transfer fees are going up. I’ve seen them as high as 75$ per weapon.
“It might help states get out of bankruptcy”
Hogwash! Let those who cannot control spending on useless projects and bottomless social welfare learn their lessons. Tax less, spend less. Say no to irresponsible politicians and their addiction to our money.
What’s preventing, “brick and mortar” stores from selling on the internet in order to compete? I know that most of your “internet gun stores” also have a facility of their own, built from brick and mortar, with real employees. I think the consumer benefits from the competition of online sales because of lowered prices. We saw that after the internet sales became popular. I’m not for any legislation. The article is biased, illogical, and untrue.
My gosh, what a bunch of whiny little children you sound like! GA never said that government shouldn’t clean up their act and stop wasting our tax money. They also never said that you shouldn’t be free to shop on the internet for better prices than you can get locally or merchandise you can’t find locally. They are just saying that the internet dealer shouldn’t be given an unfair price advantage over the guy who actually carries an inventory of goods for you to look at and buy right away without having to wait for it to be shipped by FedEx. The sales tax exemption for Internet sales was something that was done in the 90’s to get cyber-commerce up and running. Now that it is a mainstream way of doing business, there’s really no justification for government to give the internet dealer an edge and screw the local retailer. And yeah, collecting the tax at the point where the FFL dealer hands over the firearm makes good sense.
And it’s also better to furlough me for 14 days and then turn around and give Egypt 1.9 billion .
dk, I feel for you, I had my share of furloughs over the years. Then they turn around and give away $1.9B. It is surprising what gets bipartisian approval. What happened to helping Americans first? You know the furlough is just a way to break a union. You know that Eddie Munster looking guy from Wisconsin had something to do with it. Same thing with the sequester, anything to burn the people.
The states have gone crazy spending money on worthless projects and giving to people who get, or will get enormous pensions. It will hurt the poorer people who buy things online because it’s cheaper and it’s the only way to help make ends meet. All this will do is allow the states to spend themselves more in to debt, without getting their spending under control. It’s time to stop the madness.
You sound like a hater. What is an enormous pension? Did you not think of retirement one day? The civil servant probably has done more to earn it than a Mitt Romney, robber baron. In the 1980s, a civil servant could expect a dependable and comfortable income. Factory jobs paid better, and the private sector was wide open for ambitious people.
Big business sent the factory jobs overseas so they could make record profits. That started the snowball of a mess we have today. My point is, the only jobs that has survived since the 1980s is civil service. If you let Republicans destroy social security, you better plan on working at McDonalds when you are 75.
I would presume GunsAmerica supports the 2cnd Amendment, and I would also expect GA supports the rest of the constitution of the United States of America. Some of the statements made in this article are poorly researched (if at all) and beg for credibility.
The Internet Sales tax is a bad idea, unless you have selfish reasons to support it. this tax will add yet another tax the american consumer has to pay for goods. The crux of the issue is, this is “Taxation without Representation” and we all (should) know what the problem with that is. (this will also encourage growth of big government, and encourage stifling of free enterprise.)
I’m surprised GA would support such a thing.
-pngbushman
Don’t I already pay more for buying firearms online? I actually try to find it local first and only resort to online if I can’t source it local. When I buy online I have to pay for shipping 25+ and an FFl fee of 25+. That’s already over 50 bucks more than I would pay if I bought local -tax of course. So now let’s add tax to that. 7% on a 1000.00 bill is 70 bucks. So now we at an extra 120. As far as guns are concerned you are about to put a lot of online retailer out of work. Which is fine with me, I would rather buy local. As someone who has worked for a stocking dealer, there is nothing worse than a shopper spending hours looking at guns and wasting the salespersons time only to tell the dealer that he is going to buy it online to save 20 bucks. I wish gun manufactures went to MAP a long time ago. As soon as a this TAX hits and I believe it will, you can say goodbye to places like Guns America.
Hey, life is tough, most of us feel it in some way. You actually want MORE “govern”ment intrusion? The net should remain as free and easy as possible without ANY more GOVERNment. Hey, it’s 2013, catch up.
I am an Internet dealer, although not in guns.
On one hand, an Internet sales tax that required me to collect sales tax from everyone in every state might increase my business. I do very little in-state business because I have to collect state sales tax.
On the other hand, having to pay quarterly distributions to hundreds of different jurisdictions, or at best, fifty some odd state governments, would be a nightmare in-and-of itself.
My worst nightmare would be the institution of a sales tax that required me to collect taxes from all persons in all states, and no centralized system for distributions. Just the time alone would probably require me to close my “virtual” doors.
And without such a system, I have to believe tax fraud would be the order of the day.
They already collect enough taxes.They should learn to spend there money more wisely.I’ve purchased many firearms online and would not have bought them if a tax had been charged. They where more affordable and less expensive than I could get locally. The governments spending is out of controll, its an endless cycle ( the more they collect the more they spend,then they want more taxes so they can spend more)
It is not the job of the US Government to support a one business over another. If someone can legally sell cheaper, they win. That is it; there is nothing more in the free market. If brick and mortar stores want to compete talk to the state government about LOWERING the sales taxes. Do not go cower behind the ever expanding Federal tax system.
Austin,
The ever expanding federal tax system is all of the loopholes corporate America finds to evade taxes. You do not get services with your tax dollars? I bet you do; you take them for granted like everyone else.
If EVERYONE paid taxes at the 1950s rate, the country would prosper again. Unless you are a millionaire, you would not notice a difference. Look how much revenue has been generated from the richest 2% since January. Don’t feel sorry for the rich because they could not care less for the working poor.
I for one(1) will stop using the internet for purchase. I enjoy finding a good deal for personal or my small business on the internet. With my leather shop because of the size of order, most times I do not even gave to pay the shipping charge. NO on the tax! vern w
Apparently ignoring Article 1 Section 9 of the US Constitution – but what else is new. :-/
“No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.”
No law will not change this; it has to be a Constitutional Amendment. Both California and Illinois should be sued for their illegal requirement to collect taxes on out of state sales.
I wonder, should this go through, does this mean that I get to vote everyplace where taxes are collected? Taxation without representation was, to a large degree, the reason for the US revolutionary war. Unless I get a vote, I have no reason to pay taxes to a local government which I have no say in their actions.
Very nice Kirkrr! Very nice indeed!!! Nice to have a Constitutionalist on board. I did not know that one and will be sure to send it to my Senators – one blue and one red — in sales-tax-free NH.
kirkrr, you nailed it! I live in the People’s Republic of Kalifornia (PRK) and now have to pay 8.75% sales tax on internet purchases already. This state also regulates what firearms and magazine capacities you can have, a direct infringement of the 2nd amendment. Constitution? In this state they violate our inalienable rights every day. On top of that a large number (vast majority) of FFL’s charge a rather large mark-up on the DROS (Dealer Record of Sale – not a “registry” – sure it isn’t) and hefty “handling fees” to boot. Since this has taken effect, all of my firearm purchases have been at brick-and-mortar stores. The higher sales price is usually less than the “tabletop” FFL’s creative charges.
It is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, to support one more dime of tax to a government that cannot live within its means.
So how do you feel that people from other states, that have a state sales tax, don’t have to pay? That is how brick and mortar stores feel when they see a sale lost to an internet discounter.
Admin: Any time another person doesn’t have to pay an additional tax, I feel wonderful. You just don’t get it, do you?
dpricepac, you do not get it. The country prospers when everyone pays a fair share of taxes. I am in the 25% tax bracket. The CEO that gets $20M a year in dividends pays 20%. Is that fair? How does someone make that kind of money to begin with? It is not from working a double shift or working weekends, like I would have to. In the 1970s, that CEO would have paid 50% in taxes for everything over $500k.
They are job creators though, for the Chinese. If their focus in life is the bottom line, make them pay their fair share of taxes.
Very Good Point.
John, I live in CA too. If you do not like the political climate here, show some moral courage and move out of state. I have been a gun owner for 35 years; I had an FFL until 1994 when regulations culled out the hobbyists. I cannot think of one firearm that I am deprived of. I have shot in various NRA competitions; there is always a reload. Ten round magazines is not a big deal, especially for handguns.
How did you vote on the Three Strikes Law in 1994? Or the prison bonds to incarcerate those inmates since the 1980s? Were you in favor of repealing Three Strikes last year? The prison industrial complex ruined the CA economy. Talking about a beaucratic mess, and every Republican governor made it worse. The Democrats went along with it because it was a huge jobs program. So are you a law and order guy or a tax crusader?
Agreed. I’m glad, I’m not the only one. After the Admin accusing me of being an idiot because i don’t support the bill of his/her 20 points.
The difference with this law is that it will require the seller to charge taxes to where the buyer lives. If you want fairness (be careful of what you ask) brick and mortor stores should be required to do the same. Which is asinine. That or require the online sales companies to charge the sales tax where they reside. I’m sure you would see states reducing sales taxes in that case.
When you buy a vehicle from a dealership, they charge you the sales tax according to where you live. That is how it is done.
If you make a purchase at a retail store, that is the end of the transaction. You suggesting that a clerk ask everyone their zip code to determine the sales tax is asinine.
Why are we arguing about dollars when CEOs make a $1 salary, taxed at 39.5%, then they get $20M in dividends, taxed at 20%. Having six homes, one in Florida, they pay no state income tax.
Where to begin!!! None of the 20 points have merit. Rather than rebut each in sequence, here are five points and a conclusion:
1) Arguing for universal sales taxation is idiotic when the problem is high sales taxes in the first place. What is the justification for state governments confiscating 5 to 12 % of the gross cash flow of any business, when that government has no legitimate claim to partnership, unless resorting to the gangsters’ claim of a “Piece of the Action in my Territory!!”. Drop sales taxes to the more sensible 1-3% range of not to long ago.
2) In politics it is, likewise, idiotic to throw overboard the majority of a constituency. “Hobbyists” and “Table-Top Dealers” expand the numbers of persons sympathetic to the arcane details of running a gun business. There is a broad concurrence of interests between the “Small” FFL’s and the “Bricks & Mortar” FFL’s, if you will only look.
3) Business models change. You want to go out of business? Operate like you did 2, 5, or 10 years ago. The Internet and Social Media is here and expanding. Small FFL’s support Large FFL’s by expanding the cooperative base to the larger pool of the gun-affectionate community.
4) Nothing is strictly a commodity business, least of which is the firearms trade. The purchase of a firearm is a social, emotional, and very personal event. The staff at “Bricks and Mortar” operations short-change the conversations out of necessity to keep the action moving, where the private individuals and Small FFL’s will be able to remain more consultative. This is done at no overhead cost to the Large FFL’s.
5) Stocking Dealers get better prices by quantity purchases, and first-dibs on inventory of all firearms and related merchandise. There are no inherent financial disadvantages to the “Bricks & Mortar” compared to the “Small FFL’s”. If eithers’ overhead is out of whack, neither stays in business.
The Universal Sales Tax Proposal serves to suppress commerce and divide our community. Don’t fall for the manipulation by our enemies to hurt ourselves and our friends.
Good points. Especially the last 4.
Well said.
I agreed with you too.
GOVERNMENT HAS A SPENDING PROBLEM, PERIOD!!! Anyone who supports a tax INCREASE of any kind is ignorant of how government WASTES it’s revenues. You don’t have to look any further than your local city/county govt. to see the waste. Increasing or creating a new tax is insane by definition: “doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.”
And just why in hell do you think we buy online? Total Cost! Last one I bought, including shipping & FFL transfer fee, was right at $200 less than the local Cabela’s! You want to Tax us because we found a better deal online?
that is what it is about. The politicians hope to tax you more thinking you won’t figure out the real reason. How could anyone working for a living believe that the Government making you pay more for a product is a good thing lol
We are going to let these comments through for the most part, but beware that it is to show the manufacturers, distributors, and even the dealers what they have allowed to happen by not enforcing a MAP system like other industries have as internet retail has grown. Those of you who will scream NO NEW TAXES are fools. Sales tax isn’t a new tax. It is unfairly being paid by those who shop at brick and mortar stores while internet consumers a free from paying a tax that is a fundamental pat of our state government funding system. Cut spending, great, all for it, but where? Most likely it will be the same people screaming “not in my backyard” as scream “any tax is a new tax” today. But feel free to repeat the same incorrect arguments over and over and over in the comments below. Unless you start with the “I’m taking my business to we will allow most comments through. You are free of course to take your business wherever you choose. GunsAmerica will stand up for privately owned local businesses, and especially mom and pop gun dealers. We are on the 2nd Amendment or bust path.
Thanks,
I don’t think most folks understand that the average profit margin is 10% over cost through a wholesaler. Maybe 12% through a manufacturer. Now Dealers FFL’s are raising the transfer to cover not only cost but profit as well. Small shops can’t get new guns and ammo we are low man on the pole. All that new product goes to the 10,000$ as month shop. Small shops are dropping like flies. I haven’t had new pistols in over a month. can’t get anything folks want. Buying from auction sites even further cut into profit. Here, let me put it in perspective. If I paid myself 350$ a week. I need to sell 7 pistols with 50$ profit.
“Small shops” is what you are calling NO INVENTORY tabletop “shops” and they reason they can’t get guns and the stocking dealers can is because the stocking dealers bought them back in January with hundreds of thousands in commitments to the distributors, so they are guaranteed to get the guns first. People like you were posting whatever rag tag guns they could get at 3 times retail online while local gun dealers were still charging MSRP and below for the guns they got everyday from the distributors.
guy, Ive had guns ordered waiting on since Nov. So you tell me how to prove that my orders are skipped over to fill walmarts order for hundreds of ar’s. I can’t back order kel-tecs If I tie up thousands of dollars on orders I can’t buy anything when allotted weapons get to my salesman. I didn’t put my family in debt to start this business so I can’t lose profit I haven’t made. I can’t even get parts to manufacture guns. I can’t get components to make ammunition. If a small shop has nothing to sell we don’t get the money making sales of accessories and ammo.
I was flat out told if I don’t commit to stocking so many of certain items I can’t get other items. The only part making money is the gun smith!
MSRP and below? You haven’t been to my local gun shop, try MSRP+ 50%. I have never seen gouging like this from any business under any circumstances. You do not know the conditions everywhere. If you did not want peoples comments why did you ask?
That is extremely rare. They probably had some customers buying and re-selling and it was their only choice.
That is extremely rare. They probably had some customers buying and re-selling and it was their only choice.
I agree with you.
Interesting … and revealing. Thanks.
Wow I love the way you put it, if you dissagree with me your wrong. Your asking for new taxes and a level playing field and we are telling you no. Have you noticed that no one on here agrees with you. I have bought guns on the internet and at the brick and morter stores and will continue to do that because I shop where I get the best deal, which is the American way, not increasing taxes so it’s “fair” for everyone. You have to remember that for the most part we are all struggling to make ends meet and consider the cost of guns very high as it is without adding any more to it with a new tax.
Again i agree with you too. Some body tell him to wake the Fu*ck up. Instead of criticizing every one on the form because they disagree with you try to open that piece of shoe in side your head called mind. America was build on freedom one of those freedom is “Freedom of speech”.
I can’t believe all the “No new tax!” talk. Sales taxes are not “new” and are legitimate tax and are for the good of your LOCAL communities. I am a small business owner (not guns), the internet hasn’t leveled prices or helped anyone but manufactures not willing to stand up for the value of their products. Want to know why we have outsourcing and products built oversees? Because we aren’t willing to pay a fair price for them, we’ve allowed big box stores to pressure manufactures take products oversees to be sure they have profit. Then we don’t even want to pay sales taxes? How are local governments to survive? Schools are in terrible financial crisis? Now I believe all government entities should have a better accounting of their spending habits. That’s what the IRS should be doing and get out of the little guys pocket. Many government agencies probably do waste, but not all. Raise your voice for a better accounting of how they are spending your tax dollars, but not attacking a tax that’s already there. Everyone has a place on their state tax forms (for those of you who have state income tax) where you are to fill in your purchases (for the year) you made over the internet or that state taxes weren’t collected. Have you been doing that? If not, your subject to audit and they start with your credit card data. Guess where they find your name? They find it when they audit the Amazons, Neweggs, AjMadisons, Sportsman’s guides of the world. It’s only a matter of time.
If you believe in “2nd Amendment or bust”, then you should understand what, “shall not be infringed” means. There’s nothing preventing mom and pop from doing internet sales. Your logic is skewed, and taxation is theft. I bet you keep records of your transactions, and send them to big bro, hmmm?? You guys can bend over to the system all you want, but it’s only going to get you fucked in the end (pun intended).
Agreed.
Actually, there are already laws on the books for taxation. It is commonly called a “Use Tax” and the residents of a particular state are required to pay it – about 99% of the population is unaware of this or doesn’t care. When you purchase items out of state, online or otherwise, you are required by law to pay a tax on the “use” of that item. In our state the “use” tax is exactly equal to the state tax. It is to be paid when you file your income tax returns, there is a line you fill in with “Purchases made by you, outside of this jurisdiction” It’s very simple, almost all people cheat the system and leave that line blank. Because of this, you now see a rally cry for states to get “their” money in another way, a direct taxation on the inter-state sales if the people won’t be honest enough to tax themselves.
Do you not think that the majority of Internet retailers are of the “Mom and Pop” variety? Certainly THEY will be unable to cope with the complexity of dealing with over 9000 taxing authorities and will be forced to close. Only the bigger players will be able to handle the task and we will be simply be promoting big business yet again. Try reading just this Forbes article:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2012/08/07/small-business-and-internet-sales-tax/2/
If you had ANY clue about how the tariff system was originally designed to fund the government, you would NOT be advocating for still more taxation. I say cut spending by half, get rid of a whole hell of a lot of useless government payroll drones [yes, I’ve worked for both county and state systems as an RN and I know from personal experience that there’s MUCH waste in them relative to the private sector].
Your arguments sound “good” on the surface, but they are simply promoting still larger and fewer corporations. The merger of the state and corporations has a name-it is called “National Socialism” aka Nazism-do some research and stop being yet another shill for Big Government and Big Business.
I have yet to purchase anything through the GA site, and your promotion of this sort of idiocy pretty much ensures that I never will…
Well, I for one will be glad to be rid of my high capacity magazines once I have fired them and used up the ammo. I can then throw them away! I’m ready for a “million (or more) man march on DC”… Stop the insanity NOW!
Hey Administrator,
You mean MAP system like PRICE FIXING, right?
To the Administrator who stated this: “Those of you who will scream NO NEW TAXES are fools”
That’s a bold statement.
I suggest reading this article by the eBay CEO: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323735604578438643723029594.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Basically exempt businesses with less than 50 employees and less than 10 Million in sales. That is a fairly decent compromise IMHO.
There is NO WAY IN HELL all Online businesses should have to keep track of and charge the appropriate tax of the more than 9600 different tax jurisdictions, it would create a TAX nightmare for these businesses and probably put thousands of businesses out of business!
Let’s use Common Sense here, and this bill in its current form uses none of that, which is of course typical of Washington D.C.
I agreed with you too. I’ve read it. Some body tell him to fuck*n wake up.
before you get all excited about this tax, ask yourself who is going to pay-that would be taxpayers-and who is going to get the money-that would be states-that already need to do a better job of managing their (actually OUR) money than just get more to spend. And you have to know that it wont be long before there is a federal tax added to internet sales to go to support the already wasteful and excessive federal spending.
We need a lot more accountability form government at all levels before we even think about giving them ore money from any source.
and as far as gun dealers closing down-in our county they are opening up faster than any other type of business. We have at least twice if not 3 times as many gun shops as we had 10 or 15 years ago.
Good article. This would NOT create any new taxes, it would only equalize the enforcement of sales taxes between brick and mortar and online retailers.
If your state currently has a sales tax, any online purchases you make currently are not EXEMPT from sales taxes – you are just supposed to pay and report them yourself – usually as “use taxes” on your state income tax return.
Most people conveniently ignore them, but that doesn’t change the fact that you’re breaking the law when you fail to report and pay them.
Absolutely correct!
MAPs have been around since the early days of specialty retail, they’re not an internet phenomena.
The more you raise the cost for someone to acquire a good through a given medium, in this case the internet, the less people will be inclined to utilize it. The less people buy guns over the internet, the less traffic this site will see. Given it’s official editorial stance on the issue of internet taxes, I’m not completely sure that would be a bad thing.
There are those of us who live in remote areas where we have little choice but to buy online, and not just firearms & accessories. Then specific to firearms & accessories, there are often those NOT available in our local area. But in all these cases, shipping has to be added to the cost of purchases online. And with many items, the shipping is more expensive than the item itself, and adding an additional tax to that is just making online purchases MORE cost prohibitive. Then there is the simple fact that the taxes will be going to ‘other’ states, ie, other than the person being represented, this was a key issue in the American Revolution, ‘taxation without representation’! Paying taxes to a ‘foreign’ government body. And will further restrict what IS available for purchase online and to what states online retailers are willing to do business! Having to collect 8.75% for California will limit sales there for example.
We don’t need MORE taxes, we don’t need MORE regulation and we don’t need MORE government. What we need is LESS of all of the above and MORE; Freedom, liberty & Independence!
Read the tax bill !!
This bill would require any seller
(even with a store, like myself)
if we do any mail order business
we would have to be familiar AND collect tax in the over 900 different sales tax zones in the country!
that would be a paperwork nightmare !!
I would not WANT to support an internet tax,
However if we are stuck with it, it needs to be sometime simple like
flat tax ** if needed ** (lets say 5%) on nation wide internet sales,
paid to the home state where the business is located.
In a month it’s unlikely we would send items to all 900 different tax area’s
but for us to collect tax in 100-400 different tax zones a month (state, city and county taxes) based on where the item is delivered to is Ridiculous ! We are already keeping track of the 10 different tax rates I deal with in Minnesota!
collecting 900 different tax rates, and paying them into all the different states, I cannot even comprehend the paperwork mess, We would have to stop selling on Gunsamerica and gunbroker – we just could not justify the paperwork !
A thinker and a businessman both. Sometimes trying to eradicate “unfair” competition in a capitalist system, fosters so much government intervention, that we become a “parallel economic universe” to socialism, where the government owns the business and hungry businessmen don’t even bother any more.
I used to be a small time FFL. Many got out because of increased regulation, not cost. We never could compete with big FFLs and didn’t try. But there was a rift between store fronts and small dealers so they were glad to see the small guys go. We should have been on the same side. I am against any new taxes. If you think that a new tax will preempt or replace another, I think that’s delusional. I’m all for brick and mortar stores, but this sounds like the campaign of yore.
I work for state government. We waste money on purpose every year. In addition to the usual waste we have to make in order to make it look as though we have something to do, we are asked to come up with ideas as to how we might waste more. Here is how it works:
Any bureaucrat who wants to succeed makes growing his scope of government a priority. To grow, you must find ways to expand. This requires money. You start with an amount left you by your predecessor that includes a surplus. The surplus is attained by spending more than necessary to justify getting more funding than necessary every year. If you have no use for the surplus, you just waste it on unnecessary staff and supplies. Sometimes you have to buy big ticket items no one has any use for just to get money off your books. When you find a way to expand your scope of government, you use the surplus instead of wasting it. Then, you cry for more money because you had to expand and can now represent your department or agency as short of funding. You then get more money, which is in fact surplus, to waste.
This style of waste is intrinsic to the way our governments operate. The only way to combat it is to limit taxation to the point governments can barely operate to provide only the most basic services.
I too am a state employee and Nonny you have hit the nail on the head. Governments are wasteful by nature, any increase in their revenue will result in more unnecessary spending. I say NO NEW TAXES PERIOD!!!
I appreciate the depth of the research on this article. The problem is this what islam calls “jizya” or in sheeple’s layman terms “extortion”. Just make it more and more costly to participate in shooting sports or self-defense. If you give the Govt. one inch it will be in genocide mode in less than a generation. I would buy from GA but not now with the support of extortion like this perverted plan. Your delaying the inevitable from the tyrannical Govt. To get state and fed debts down is to stop spending and reduce taxes. Once you compromise on taxes they are only increased! GA what are you frightened of, eh? aka:husseinobama?
Leave Religion out this. I think you don’t have any knowledge about Islam. So, please don’t involve Religion in this Discussion.
You folks seem to forget one important thing. Who pays this internet tax? Purchases from the firearms
dealers is not the only thing taxed. Every transaction on the internet will be taxed. Who pays? the people
who need the services, not the providers.
You seem to forget the basic rule of economics. We are here to make a profit, pass on the tax to those who demand the service. Our taxes are soon to skyrocket
into space. The net result will be a reduction in Internet sales. My dog in the fight?
You remember the paper less society? The bills you pay will include this internet tax. It’s another Ponzi scheme
to make funds available to those who spend it. Vote against it.
I totally agree with you. I already voted against it. The 20 points mentioned above, only benefit the greedy dogs with the lager inventory. That will help them by letting online sales go up. So, buyers will be force to be from them or pay more. At the end the buyer the one that will get screwed in this deal because you have to pay more tax. There is no state in the US that is poor or in debt because they don’t have money. It’s all because corruption and spending in wasted stupid projects.
Does everyone see what the socialist media and educational system has done to tiny little brains like this guy? Having an actual retail store with inventory, where this idiot probably goes to fondle his guns before buying them online, makes you a “greedy dog.” Just because you can attempt to parrot some of the language that you hear from Sean Hannity doesn’t mean you haven’t been conditioned into a communist collectivist ideal. Is anyone at all going to wake up?
Maybe I’m an oddball, but I’ve never bought a gun online that I could get locally within $50 of the online price. I might make that $100 or more if the gun was on his display rack but hard to find elsewhere. There is something to be said for supporting a local business, getting immediate delivery and having expert advice before and after the sale. Besides which, my local gun store lets me buy double the ammunition when I buy a new gun.
Yeah, I know, “big of him”. But it sure beats having to chase EVERY round down from some guy in Montana willing to part with 10 rounds for only two teeth and a finger.
My local stores seem to have a problem getting ammo so I do buy from online sources when I can. Not because it’s a few cents cheaper … but because I can’t find it locally at all.
Generally it is the opposite. A stocking dealer is going to have stock when the internet sellers don’t, but in cases where you can’t get it except online, big deal, so pay the sales tax. If it is a local dealer for whom you are a local customer they won’t even charge you a transfer fee.
You the hell are you? to call me idiot. Dump A*s. Do you understand half the vocabulary in your reply? Your reply just makes you another “Parrot” and Piece of Sh*t.
The acts you speak of is called whoring the market. Gun clubs who get FFL to allow members to become gun dealers on the clubs backs. Not forgetting the guy who just wants to pay for his FFL lic and enjoy guns for cost.
The distributers have whored the market them selves. Open price list mailed in vast amounts.
Want to get upset, look that the new National sales tax. Yes it passed as part of Obamacare. Percentage of sporting goods, cars, trucks, medial equipment, tires, and much more. We are now paying 2.3% national sales tax; it does not stop with government, there is a tax on tax when city, state and federal gov tax them selves to move to obamacare.
Look for amendments to high tax on gun sales alone. Something’s along the lines of gun and ammo tax to cover those shot and killed by same. Trust me it will happen.
get off your asses and vote, get off your asses and leave the democrat party to something else. Its the only way to fix this problem.
amen, brother, you hit it right on the head, we have to become active, not reactive!! D Heil
I agree to a point,we the people still are the ones that pay the tax and in my state it is 7.75% which when added to a $2,000 gun is quite a bit.
But,sales taxes can reduce state debts and help states pay for better things.
You are my hero!
I agree Nonny. I was the supply petty officer for my division many years ago as a young Navy petty officer. My Division Officer would come to me every Sept and tell me you have to spend x number of dollars (usually in the thousands) in the next two weeks or we will lose it. We won’t get the same level of funding next year if we don’t spend all this money now. Never failed. Happened every year. I would buy all kinds of crap we didn’t need just to spend the money. There are plenty of places to cut waste in government spending if they really wanted to do so. No need to tax us more. They tax us more, they waste more.
Jim,
Yep, I’ve been “that” Divo…
I have seen with my own eyes the WA. dept. of transportation take out pallets of food and liquor that they bought for parties and drop it off the back of ferries in Puget sound because not enough people showed up to the party. Just so they could justify getting more money the next year for more parties.
I have seen this sort of last minute spending at a non profit I worked at for a short time. I think all enterprises but the smallest Mom and Pop businesses are rampant with this kind of waste. Not to mentions the waste caused by all of the government paper work.
Hi Nonny….So what you are saying is you are willing to give up your government job to help “limit the size of government and limit taxation”. Don’t do it! We need more people who can help contribute by having good paying jobs so please keep yours. I do not mind paying my share. Good luck to you!
you are 100% on target. years ago (1972-1976) when i was in the air force we were required to write work orders to log enough time to justify our shop manning. if we didn’t , we were severely reprimanded by our section chiefs, and threatened with cuts in shop manpower and funding..so we wrote what we were instructed to do at the expense of the tax-payer. guess what? it’s gotten worse. i know a person who works for a state agency here in Fl. and if you could see how little these people do each day, and still collect a premium salary and benefits (health ins. etc.) you would want to kick them all in the ass! cut spending and waste, make government accountable..get a real job!! D Heil
In Indiana the FFL does not charge sales tax for guns shipped to them from another state. They are not collecting the money for the gun so they can not collect the sales tax. You are required to turn it on you state tax form. Indiana don’t need the money anyway we run a surplus.
Finally someone telling the truth about how government works!!! I saw the same thing in my early 20’s (mid-60’s) and in every government job I’ve had since. There needs to be some way to penalize agencies who wasteful-spend and base their budget on realistic needs — just don’t ask THEM what is “realistic” because it will be drastically inflated. Schools are some of the worst tax-payer supported agencies doing this “spend more to get more” concept. It MUST stop! We are being taxed to death. I cannot support GA’s position on more taxes from citizens in order to inflate government coffers so they can spend more for things not needed. As others have said, Stop the Spending!!! This whole charade of laying off employees for “essential services” is nothing but a ploy to pressure people into agreeing to this administration’s excessive spend, spend, spend! People just need to see through the smoke screen to the truth about what is going on at all levels of government.
Hundreds of vehicles found in 2012 that were never used. Florida’s Miami-Dade County spent $4 million buying approximately 300 vehicles between 2006 and 2007 and then “abandoned” them in a county parking garage, according to a local investigative report.
Most of the forgotten fleet were “clean” energy Toyota Priuses that were now 5 or 6 years old and never used. Every government wastes ridiculous amounts of money.
B—S–T-,just another form of Taxation on top of Taxation!!!!-STOP THE SPENDING INSTEAD!!!!
Wrong. I will be back with the tomatoes. We do not need more taxes. Gun people should understand that. If this is an official NRA position, I’m out. No more donations to NRA through the auction site. Idiots.
Why would any one want a tax increase?
Why would any one support a tax increase?
The government spends what it collects plus what it can borrow.
Why?—- Why?—– Why?
I understand the point you are trying to make, but a FREE market calls for competition, not a fair playing field. The government will try to take as much money in any way they can and in a civil society we have to fight against any new taxes. The only acceptable solution would be for the gun industry to create a reasonable MAP. Business models change so entire industries have to change as necessary. It’s not fair that blacksmiths got put out of business by the automobile industry, but you are NOT going to tell me you’d rather go back to the horse and buggy!
Charley, You just don’t get it. Please go back and read the whole piece. Then let it sink in and after that come back with how you feel. The NRA did not make this up. The State you live in needs your help along with the NRA. There are bigger fish to fry next year that will take an effort from all of us to displace the number of liberals with in the government and our back pockets. We all have to vote smarter and drive these non American thinking politicians out of our government.
I’m with you. I pay sales tax to the FFL even when its shipped in from out of state. No more taxes. Cut spending.