The Parkland school shooter posted this picture to his Instagram account before the attack. On its own, it’s just a picture of some firearms. But when put in the context of the teen’s disturbing behavior along with the myriad of complaints that authorities received from teachers and peers suggesting that he might be a danger to public safety, it should have been enough to involuntarily commit the 19-year-old gunman so he could’ve been adjudicated mentally defective. But the FBI and local police never followed through. Now they have another law on the books that makes it really easy to confiscate firearms from suspected dangerous people. The question is will they enforce this new law? And, will they do so in a responsible manner? Time will tell. (Photo: Instagram/AP)
Police in Florida had their first opportunity last week to use a now-legal “risk protection order,” which allowed them to seize a man’s firearms after a judge determined he posed a “significant danger of causing personal injury to himself or others.”
A Broward County judge ordered the removal of four firearms and 267 rounds of ammunition from a 56-year-old man residing in Lighthouse Point, a community 14 miles east of Parkland.
“We put the safety of our residents first,” Lighthouse Point Mayor Glenn Troast told the Sun Sentinel. “This is not about the Second Amendment and it’s not about the NRA. We need commonsense gun laws and this is a commonsense gun law that gives police officers new tools they need to help us protect our community.”
Florida’s new “public safety” bill allows law enforcement to ask the courts to order a temporary removal of a person’s firearms. Under a standard risk protection order, police must provide “clear and convincing evidence” that the person poses a risk, and the court cannot order the firearms to be removed for more than 12 months. The person must be notified and a hearing must be held, though the law does not require either party to be represented by an attorney.
But the law also allows police to request a “temporary ex-partre risk protection order,” which requires a much lower standard of evidence. To obtain a temporary order, which was used in this instance, the court must only find “reasonable cause” to believe the person poses a danger to himself or others. The court does not have to notify the person in question and the person does not have to appear at the hearing.
That’s what happened last week in Lighthouse Point, as the man whose firearms were seized had already been committed to a hospital and could not attend the initial hearing.
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Police say the man had been the subject of several inquiries, and the Sun Sentinel reports that while he had never been arrested in Florida, he had been arrested several times in Pennsylvania. Police were called in the most recent incident after the man turned off the main electrical breakers in his condo.
The man told officers he “was being targeted and burglarized by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and a neighbor who lives in [his] building,” the judge wrote in his order. “[He] could not describe the neighbor but stated that the neighbor [can] ‘shape shift, he can change heights and I’m not sure where he comes from’ and ‘to be honest, he looks like Osama Bin Laden.’”
He also told officers that he had to turn off the electrical breakers because “they are electrocuting me through my legs.”
The judge said the man kept “a voluminous amount of notes containing numerous references to former President Barack Obama, that he was killed in the 1980s but came back and now murders children to place their spirits into [the man’s] head, is a member of [al-Qaida], and is [the man’s] enemy.”
Lighthouse Point Police Chief Ross Licata is hopeful other states will follow Florida’s lead and pass their own risk protection order legislation.
“This may be the first but it’s certainly not going to be the last,” he said.
The Broward County court will hold a hearing on March 28 to determine whether the temporary order should be extended to the full 12 months.
I live in Florida. I have an arsenal of many guns and lots of ammunition and am a 2nd Ammendment supporter. I’m 62 and if I ever go bat-shit crazy and start threatening my friends and neighbors, PLEASE, someone, come get my guns! MY 2nd Ammendment right DO NOT come before other people’s rights to live free and safe. I am often appalled by the stupidity of some gun-rights advocates!
My Dad was a quick draw shooter in the 1950’s, was consulted on handgun crimes by police when I was very young, and like his father, always carried. He continued reloading and shooting (G32 mostly) into his late eighties, and then one day I received a call from my brother saying the police had been called because he discharged a pistol in a residential area.
When I went to talk to him about it, he claimed that someone was trying to kidnap him and had locked him in his bedroom. When I asked him why he fired his pistol in the air during the middle of the night, he said, “to get help!” I asked him, “help for what?”, and he said “help from the kidnappers!” I then said, “Dad, you were probably having a nightmare.” His response was, “Bullsh*t!”
The inconsistency of being locked in his bedroom by kidnappers, while simultaneously firing a .357 Sig into the air outside, could not be reconciled in his mind, even after spending hours trying to explain that he had very likely been having a nightmare. I called my brother and told him that I was locking up his firearms, and hiding the keys. I lost track of how many pistols and revolvers were found hidden away in his house, garage, and vehicles, but eventually I was able to get all of them.
During a more lucid moment, he looked at me with contempt is his eyes and said, “I never thought you would be the one to do this to me!” That look, and those words, have haunted me ever since, but I would take the same action again if necessary, and I know that someday I will be separated from my precious firearms, and may not understand either!
I believe that the multiple prescriptions my dad was on, may have exacerbated his mental decline, and I think pharmaceuticals are responsible for many of the “mass” shootings in this country. I also believe that allowing firearms to remain in the hands of anyone who has lost the ability to distinguish fantasy from reality is a threat to the rights of all of us.
These new laws can hurt law enforcement if not used wisely , for sure 5:15 am. Most legal gun owners support police but if those citizens are abused, law enforcement support will decay like it did on politicians.
These Florida Red Flag Gun Confiscation laws destroy the 5th, 6th and 2nd Amendments in the Constitution. The accused does not get their day in court with due process of law until they are already found guilty. If you hear only one side of the story what are you going to believe?
The following rights are now gone in Florida that are in the 6th Amendment:
* Being informed of the nature and cause of the accusation and being confronted with the witnesses against you is gone.
* Obtaining witnesses in your favor is also gone.
* No right to a speedy and public trial by an impartial jury of the state. You get to go before a Judge and get no lawyer unless you can afford one. (Whatever happened to if you cannot afford a lawyer one will be appointed for you?)
* You are guilty until proven innocent. How can you prove you will not use any lethal force in the future with firearms?
I also read the Judge rules against the citizen and takes their firearms 5 out of 6 times even when the accused shows up to defend themselves.
Anyone that supports these laws and says they believe in liberty and the Bill of Rights is a liar or does not understand the 5th, 6th and 2nd Amendments in the Constitution.
Curious. Does a judge ordered RPO constitute adjudication of mental incompetence?
I’m very concerned about this new law for multiple reasons…the one most concerning is that if they do succeed in temporarily disarming a nutbag they’ve only removed one way for said nutbag to accomplish the evil task, or given them enough time to plan a much more effective plan of action while waiting to get their firearms back. Just because they’re mentally unstable doesn’t make them stupid…all mass shooters to date have proven to be premeditated and thought out. Disgruntled exes not have a shiny new weapon to exact their revenge upon the innocents here in florida…and what better way to execute a sadistic plan on a victim who is responsibly armed than to have them temporarily disarmed…thus clearing the way to do whatever they want to the victim. Just my two cents worth.
He was committed.
Now a prohibited possessor he can not have guns of ammunition.
Forever. Probably need to watch him if he tries to rent a uhaul or fills a bunch of gas cans at the gas station. Heh.
This police-state legislation denies citizens their Constitutional right to due process of law and their unalienable right to keep and bear arms. It is therefore null and void. This is nothing less than state-sponsored treason. Florida, and every other state that enacts these “red flag” laws, should be sued all the way to the Supreme Court.
I am wondering when these Red Flag Gun Confiscation laws are going to be struck down by the courts or if anyone is even going to challenge them? These laws destroy 2nd, 5th and 6th Amendments in the Constitution.
I do not need to read every word as it is just more Complaining about The Complainers.Really it is. WE are so sided anymore we are always blaming the other guy. If we have a law that nutty people Like Me can be danger to others, and their guns can be taken until they are determined safe, yet we complain if it happens. I guess they could have left the guns and took The Guy in instead. Rights do not come free.
Retired police here, I love my brethren in blue, but when they come to disarm me we will die together.
And that gets you on their radar.
Welcome to the brave new world
I agree with Mr Winslett. There is a danger that when a person is awakened in the middle of the night with banging on their door that they will be shot by police. I fact they most likely would be. Any armed citizen is going to meet what they feel is a threat with fire arm in hand no matter what’s being yelled at them. It’s bloodshed waiting for a place to happen.
Can\’t wait till a judge orders Diane Feinstein\’s firearms seized.
OK so maybe this guy shouldn’t have guns, but in FL we have 100 yr. old people driving through store front windows on a daily basis. This goes back to what I always said, you need to be re-evaluated at 70-80 yrs. old, just for safety sake.
I have seen old people who couldn’t even get back in their cars, let alone drive them. Is this not similar? They kill more people than guns do. I got totaled when a woman made a left turn into oncoming traffic, it was ruled her fault,but she totaled my new Mustang, and almost killed me. She didn’t have a gun.
the same determinations should also be in place for evaluating ANY elected office holder or appointed government official. this applies especially to elected legislators whether state or federal.
In Missouri, (in the early 90’s) I lived across the street from a 92 year old man who could still do anything he wanted, including changing a sump pump under his house. ( I yelled at him for that one, after all, I was right across the street.) Families should be on the lookout for elder members no longer capable of driving. My Grandmother quit in her late 70’s, not trusting her reaction time anymore. The secret is friends and family willing to take the older folks on their errands, so they aren’t stuck with no mobility. That’s why most keep driving.
In almost every mass shooting the FBI or local law enforcement or homeland security had been watching the perp or they were on their radar. Why didn’t they act if they knew? Why do the rest of us have to pay for the incompetence of those put in place to protect? Some medications cause people to do weird things – I get that. But that still doesn’t excuse law enforcement for dropping the ball amd later the hammer.
The problem here is that the existing law could of been used to remove his guns since if accurate he was not right in the head. This new one was used to test and see who sues. Another example of not enforcing currents laws and creating new ones to make it look like our overlords are protecting us.
A pure BS law, To take away peoples rights. No safety involved
Also if you are danger to society you can use anything as a weapon to commit crime.
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I’m a military veteran and a lifetime sportsman. I like this law and this story. This guy is a lunatic and shouldn’t even be allowed to own a knife.
This man clearly has issues, and there’s no reasonable gun owner who would say that he should be allowed to own weapons until he can get himself straight, but that being said this law appears to entirely circumvent the 4th and possibly the 5th amendments depending on their application. Once something is “justified” and permitted, it will become commonplace. Do you want to be on the receiving end of something like that which has no basis for reality? You can easily argue now that it won’t/ can’t happen, but once it starts it won’t stop. Remember the old saying that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely? Once “they” have the power, they won’t separate themselves from it lightly.
My concerns too……….. well stated
According to this nonsense, any preacher talking of spirits becomes a suspect, also we don’t know if the “convict” was serious or maybe was talking jokingly and the law twisted his statement to his disadvantage. It seems that the freedom of expression would be also a targeted.
AGREE
that freedom of speech and thought is exactly what those who strongly oppose the 2nd amendment are intending. after the 2nd goes they will attack other parts of the Bill of Rights. The 1st, 4th, 5th and 6th are extremely vexing to the ruling classes. They look at them as roadblocks to prevent them from totally doing as they please. I’m quite sure a case could be made that would find someone “capable of doing harm to himself or others” by any appointed person having the accepted credentials. That could be a bicyclist riding on a busy city street or a person spelunking or climbing a sheer cliff. Some years ago there was a movie that used “precogs” to determine who, in the future, may commit a crime so that they could be arrested and confined before they did the “crime”. this is the first baby step in that direction.
What I’d really like to know is when are the American people going to know what medications; if any, these mass shooters are on. The public has a right to know if there are medications that are; or have the potential, to predispose a person to commit such acts of atrocity. It seems like this issue is never named or brought out into the light because of HIPPA rules. Of which continues to enshrine a protective wall of silence around Big Pharma. I can still remember kids in Japan jumping off of their balconies after taking tamiful during the bird flu epidemic. And this drug alone has several mentally inducing behaviors that can affect a person. (From Web MD) Feeling Agitated, Feeling Anxious, Hallucination, Nightmares, Problem Behavior, Confused, Delirium.
I for one would like the veil of secrecy lifted from this long line of mass shooters to as to what medications they were on. I had a friend tell me that they when they were on anti-depressants they knew right from wrong, but they just didn’t care. If the anti-gun establishment is ever going to be taken seriously, it needs to have an open and honest conversation about what and how these mind altering medications that are being prescribed en masse might be having on the human brain.
You comment is outstanding. Remember how Richard Jewell was treated? Every aspect of his life was turned over to the media and he was made fun of even though he acted quite admirably. On the other hand the pharmaceutical history of rampage/spree killers is protected and kept secret. Big pharma is being protected, nothing else.
To me, this is “just cause” to take his guns, and a proper use of the law. I sure would not feel safe living next door to this guy.
I’d worry a lot more about the cops using some offhand negative comment you might express online against some political figure to also be “just cause”. But if you are crazy, or stupid enough, to post death threats online, you deserve close, immediate investigation. Maybe in this way, some of these mass shooting WILL be prevented.
Don’t need guns to go batty and hurt people. Look what happened in Austin last week. Maybe ought to ban FedEx.
What if he was having a bad reaction to medicine, does it still apply? Does the Police get to keep his firearms? Just some thoughts..Hmm.
That guy was certifiable batshit crazy. Job well done ! But don’t push the envelope.
Totally agree, for once I think they are on the right track, its nutjobs like this that help the system push gun laws that effect the sane people of this nation. If your sick, you should be nowhere near a firearm.
Joe-my thoughts exactly. Looks good on paper as long as it’s not abused.
I agree, with one exception… THE EXISTING LAW would have applied here. A NEW LAW was not required! This is exactly the problem. Non enforcement of existing laws and creation of new, redundant laws. Eventually it is a “bakers choice” of what to charge someone with and in the end… if you are on the receiving side a charge will be found to “fit the crime”. Be careful what you applaud and wish for, you might just get it.
There already is a “sensible” gun law, it is one sentence long, it’s called the Second Amendment. There needs to be some kind of review of this procedure to make darn sure it isn’t abused, which it will be. Typical knee jerk reaction to a nut causing a tragedy, just what does that have to do with my rights? NOTHING is the answer and the problem with ALL of this BS is it will infringe further on my rights as a law abiding citizen. Nut control, not firearm control, the liberal idiots let them out of the bin under Reagan, it is THEIR fault we are in this mess, not the law abiding citizens. It is high time to lay blame where it belongs and that is with the libtards.
The main point here is that POLICE happily piss on all your rights.
You omitted “some” from your statement. I know many good police officers who believe and support the 2A for all. They also are honest when they say that there almost no way for them to deter most home invasions.
Where are these mythical creatures you speak of?
All police do not happily piss on your rights. I understand your frustrations but we do not make policy. When I was an active police officer I went out every day into the 4th District of Louisville, KY so the people that lived there could be safer in their homes. We also lost several officers while doing the same. I know that it is popular to blame us (police officers) for almost everything bad happening in our country. Honestly I cannot remember a time when there seemed to be so many bad people and events happening. What you need to realize is that “we” are you. Police officers reflect the community from which they are drawn. I don’t approve of denying people due process, and do believe that everyone is innocent until proved guilty. I also believe that the law in FL is very wrong. A time may come soon when people who believe as I do will be more uncommon than they are today. If you don’t like the situation that we all face as Americans then you must change the people who pretend to represent your interests. It cannot be done by throwing rocks, you must participate in the system we have been left by the Founding Fathers. You must vote (even when it isn’t convenient, stylish, or interesting. You must also stand for office if you have the ability and a situations that allows you to do so.. You must not support individuals or political movements that seek to subvert or weaken any part of the Constitution. In the meantime, should the balloon go up we (or at least most of us), will be running interference for you.
First off, the clinical, technical diagnosis of that guy is “Bat sh– crazy” So here’s a few tips on how not to be insane, (1) accept global warming as absolute truth (2) disavow all connections with religion, republicans, NRA, US military, law enforcement (3) take all your firearms and cut them up with a metal saw while video taping it and post on the internet (4) sell all your personal and real property and donate the proceeds and any other cash or valuables to the democratic party and anti gun group. There now don’t you feel better? and now yer as sane as I am, well,maybe thats not a good example, any way, now you are officially not crazy.
WTF
If this is true: “That’s what happened last week in Lighthouse Point, as the man whose firearms were seized had already been committed to a hospital and could not attend the initial hearing.”
Then he was “committed”, which means already deemed mentally ill and was a threat to himself or others. What I’m waiting for it the police abuse of this law. Ex parte hearings only lead to abuse of the law, and should be used very carefully.
It sounds like there is evidence that this man could be mentally defective, if he really believes that President Obama was murdering children and putting their spirits in his head, and if he is adjudicated as mentally defective in a court of law then he is prohibited from possessing firearms by the GCA of 1968. Seizing his weapons under this protective order may have been redundant as he is likely to soon become a prohibited possessor but the sooner the better, I suppose.
I donno man, he wasn’t wrong about the FBI burglarizing his home.
“Obama was murdering children…”
I’m not trying to split hairs, but do drone strikes count?
There are a lot of things going on that sound crazy, when you say them out loud and out of context.