  This is our KSG. It is a 12 gauge bullpup shotgun made by Kel-Tec that holds a total of 15 rounds, 7 in each magazine tube and one in the chamber. It is outfitted with a front and rear open AR-15 type sight from Leapers/UTG, and the front sight has a laser that is activated by a pad on the handgrip. The front grip is a Tapco polymer model that works great on the gun.
 The business end of the KSG is formidable, with a big 12 gauge hole where the mean stuff comes out.
 The KSG is suprisingly manageable when you lean into it and take control of the gun. With light, medium and heavy buckshot we shot this for an entire afternoon with over 200 rounds and nobody got a bruise, or missed a target.
 If you enlarge this picture you will see the magazine selector lever. It is to the right. Whichever side it is on, this is the side you can load the magazine on, and the side that will pop the next round when you jack the action. The slide has to be forward to load the tubes. The middle position allows you to clear the action without popping another shell.
 This is the slide release, in the front of trigger guard. It allows you to open the action and eject a shell without firing. With the selector in the middle position this would allow you to clear the KSG and load a specialty round, like a breacher bag or a non-lethal.
 The sides of the two KSG magazines are slotted for round counts and identification.
 The only downside to the ergonimics of the completely ambidexrous KSG is that the rounds eject down onto your wrist, and it hurts after you get hit a few times. The red mark didn’t photograph well, but it was pretty red.
 We tested the KSG with ten different kinds of ammunition, including the Aguila Minishells. All of them worked really well.
 The KSG fed the Aguilla Minishells reliable with zero failures over several boxes. It holds 12 in each tube.
 The paper plate don’t lie. There is a world of difference between all three of these rounds that have become popular with law enforcement and for home defense. We really need to do a complete overview of the differences, but you can see from the targets and velocities some of the differences here.
 These two pins work just like the ones we saw on the KRISS Vector some time ago. You can push them out with your finger and the whole gun comes apart from there.
 This lower pulls off for easy access to the bolt area.
 Then you pull off the buttstock from the back, and the bolt is just sitting there to take out and wipe down. It really didn’t need it the gun stays amazingly clean.
 We just happened to put on polymer Tapco foregrip with a large bearing surface. The bottom rail may be plastic, but it seemed and worked solid as a rock with the polymer grip.
 The trigger broke at just over 5 pounds and had a 1/10th of an inch reset.
 Check out the nine targets below. Side by side the different loads delivered mostly as promissed and the KSG shot them well.
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Kel-Tec Firearms
https://www.keltecweapons.com/ksg/
No gun has made more noise in the gun market over the past two years than the Kel-Tec KSG. Introduced in prototype at SHOT Show of 2011, the KSG is a bullpup design pump action shotgun with two, side by side, selectable magazine tubes, each holding seven regular 2 3/4″ shotgun shells. This adds up to an awesome firepower total of 14, plus one round in the pipe, for a total of 15 round pump shotgun. For a compact high capacity shotgun, the KSG has had no equal.
The problem has been unfortunately , nobody could get one, not even the writers. Now the KSG is making its way out into the market and the demand is far outstripping supply. For several months now the guns have been selling at a premium of well over the MSRP of $880, but they are at least coming out, and we were able to finally take one to the range. While everyone has been waiting for the KSG, while supply slowly catches up to demand, we have all been asking, is the KSG a novelty gun for the armchair zombie hunters, or is it a serious close quarters battle shotgun? On first blush, it could be a bit of both, but when you shoot the KSG, there is no denying that for home defense, police use, and even military strike teams, this is probably a gun that is here to stay.
The first order of business on any new firearm design like this is to run the gun a lot with several types of ammunition. We started with bird shot, just to get a feel for the recoil. This is of course a bullpup, so the shell is being shot from right next to your head. That can be a little scary for a gun you’ve never shot before. The birdshot was like shooting an AR. Light and comfortable. Then we moved up to Federal low recoil law enforcement buckshot, then to full snot buckshot, then to the Hornady specialty hot buckshot. Overall we put more than 250 rounds through the KSG in one afternoon, and surprisingly the gun did not have even one shortstroke or failure to eject or really anything other than perfect behavior.
That brings us to recoil. The KSG does take 3″ shells, but for these tests we stuck to 2 3/4″ buckshot, and a couple specialty rounds. You will be surprised at how little the KSG recoils, even with the hottest loads, which we found to be both the Hornady Critical Defense and Superformance. It is still a 12 guage shotgun of course, and the laws of physics still apply. With full strength and extra hot buckshot the KSG does recoil a good deal, but if you lean into the gun and brace yourself, you can shoot the gun over dozens of rounds with no pain or bruising, and the jump doesn’t hinder followup shots the way it does with a standard full stock 20″ tactical shotgun. The straight back, shoulder pivot point of the recoil somehow makes the KSG feel like it recoils about half of what you would call normal. You have to shoot it to believe it.
Flipping between the two magazine tubes is not the smoothest thing. You can’t be casual about it. With a hard push it clicks over every time. The tubes are set up so that the selector lever is on one side or the other, or in the middle. When it is on either side, that side can be loaded, just like you would load the magazine tube on a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870, one round thumbed in at a time, and when you rack the slide, that side is the one that will pop the shell for the next shot. If the selector is in the middle, the gun merely ejects the round and doesn’t pop another shell.
Theoretically, you could carry a different load in each of the two tubes and select between them depending on your needs. I take a little bit of an issue with this thinking because on a practical level, nobody is going to put themselves into the middle of a potential gunfight with an empty chamber, waiting for a decision on which type of round to use. Granted, because of the extreme high capacity, you could, say, keep the left tube with buckshot as your default, and fill the right tube with slugs. If you needed to take a longer shot than 40 yards or so, or you were dealing with a hostage kind of situation where a wide buckshot pattern isn’t desirable, you could flip the selector, rack the round out and pop a slug. It sounds good, and with real training it might actually work, but someone has to pay for all that ammo. Probably not happening.
As we said all the way back at that first look at the gun in 2011, the KSG is packed with features that you wouldn’t think you would find on a first generation gun like this. It has a top and bottom accessory rail, and the sides of the magazine tubes are slotted for round counters. If you look at the pictures you will see that the slide release is right in front of the trigger guard, so clearing the chamber is easy and intuitive, far more than any other pump gun on the market. The top rail is aluminum, and believe it or not, the KSG doesn’t come with sights. This is probably the the only odd thing on a gun that seems to have brought everything else to the party.
The sights we put on are from Leapers/UTG. The rear is a standard AR-15 style aperture and the front is also a standard front post. This front sight also has a laser in it, and we led the pressure switch wire across the top of the rail in the middle slot, held down by UTG rail covers. The top rail could of course employ a red dot or holographic sight, but for a home defense weapon that might sit for months without being checked, relying on batteries isn’t the best idea. This gun shoots fabulous with regular old open sights, and if you want to add lights and lasers, great, but make sure you your primary sights are available without batteries.
As you can see from the pictures, we decided to trick out the gun a bit with what most people will probably want on the KSG at a minimum. I have seen some internet armchair mavens shooting the KSG without a foregrip, but in the opinion of everyone in our group who shot it, you really need a foregrip. The two magazine tubes make the slide itself fat, and the rail makes it not the most pleasant thing to hold onto under recoil. There have been complaints that the KSG bottom rail is plastic, and subject to breaking with a foregrip, but after hundreds of rounds we saw no evidence of any wear whatsoever. We did use a plastic foregrip, from Tapco and it has a large bearing surface, but it is plastic itself. Perhaps an aluminum grip would cut into the plastic of the rail more, who knows. I wouldn’t want to fall forward and land on the gun and expect the grip to not twist off, but for regular shooting under regular conditions, this Tapco grip isn’t going anywhere on the KSG and just about anyone will shoot better with it, at not a huge additional expense.
Taking down the KSG and putting it back together is a little tricky but not difficult once you understand the pieces and they way they work together. You pull the two pins, remove the lower, pull out the buttstock, and remove the bolt. If you want you can take the mag tubes out but there is no need from what we saw of the gun. In fact, after over 200 rounds, the action of the gun was almost completely clean, leaving little to do but wipe down the bolt and bolt face, which weren’t even covered with carbon. Swab the barrel like any shotgun and you are good to go on the KSG, with not a lot of cleaning concerns.
For ammo, we tried a total of ten different versions of traditional law enforcement and personal defense loads. Nine are represented in the results here because there was no difference between the Federal Law Enforcement and Personal Defense rounds, LE142 and PD132 respectively. We included in our tests the Aguilla 1 3/4″ Minishells, just to see if they would run. Surprisingly they did, with complete reliability, and the Kel-Tec KSG holds 25, count em, * t-w-e-n-t-y f-i-v-e * rounds, 12 each side, plus one. At ten yards the Minishells open up a little more than most would like, partly because the KSG is only an 18 1/2″ cylinder bore gun with no choke at all, but for close quarters combat, that’s a ton of firepower in a small package.
The other rounds we tested at 10 yards behaved as expected. The Federal LE132 stays tighter than most normal buckshot, probably because of the plastic fiber buffer that they stuff between the 9 pellets. The 8 pellet, slightly lighter payload Hornady Superformance and Critical Defense were the most punishing on both ends, clocking almost 300 feet per second faster than standard 9 pellet buckshot on the front, and with the sharpest recoil on the back. Most surprising were the new Winchester PDX1 12 gauge loads. They deliver a whopping 590 grain total payload using a 439 grain rifled slug and three buckshot, traveling at over 1000 feet per second. At ten yards the PDX1 was right on point of aim with the slug, and the buckshot were dispersed reasonably well. All of the standard buckshot, including military issue 00 Buck from Winchester, shot pretty much to the same point of aim with healthy dispersion at 10 yards, which is considered normal combat distance for buckshot.
The only real downside to the KSG was the ejection port. It ejects the spent shells with force straight down, into your arm. After a few dozen rounds our shoulders were fine, but on a short sleeve day in sunny south Florida, there was a noticeable red mark where the shells where hitting on our wrists. Other than wearing a heavy shirt or coat, there is no real way around it. I suspect there will be some kind of aftermarket deflector at some point, but for now you just have to train yourself not to say ouch after you get hit enough to hurt. Saying out in a firefight is bad, even if you are winning. Because the KSG ejects straight down, and the controls are all in the middle on both sides of the gun, the KSG is completely ambidextrous, including the red mark on your wrist.
Looking around the internet, it is comforting to note that there are really nothing but positive reviews of the KSG out there. Kel-Tec took an extra year of R&D after SHOT of 2011 to get this gun right. Originally it didn’t cycle 3″ shells, and though we didn’t test this yet, now it apparently does. There was a short stroke issue with the early prototypes, but you can’t get this gun to short stroke even if you try. The trigger reset was another issue, and we measured our test gun with calipers at about 1/10th of an inch, in line with the most advanced striker pistols. The thing you don’t see much of on the internet are reviews with more than a few rounds. We put a ton of lead downrange with the KSG and the gun doesn’t even need to be cleaned, and nothing got loose, came apart, or misaligned. America has never been particularly in love with bullpups. Most have failed in the market over the years. But like the revolutionary RFB .308 bullpup rifle from Kel-Tec (that we still have yet to get one to try), America seems to love the KSG, and it sure shoots great, so even those who do pay the price gougers out there right now won’t be disappointed.
And on a closing note, about the price gougers, and yes, they are selling on GunsAmerica as well, please don’t flame Kel-Tec about the people out there selling the KSG well over the MSRP of $880. They do not control what dealers get the guns, nor how many guns they get, nor how much those dealers sell the guns for. Kel-Tec sells to distributors. The distributors sell to dealers. The dealers sell to consumers, and it is the dealers who set the prices. This is America, and capitalism shouldn’t be a dirty word, no matter how hard the media, the grade school and even college teachers have tried to make it one . Supply and demand are a product of the market. Right now the distributors are rewarding their good dealers by sending them KSGs, so that they can sell them to their own regular customers, mostly at MSRP. A few guns here and there don’t get allocated to the big shops, and that is the source of the price gougers mostly.
And in defense of the dealers who are selling the KSG at well over retail , if they sold every KSG they were able to get for $880, there would be flippers searching out the guns and selling them for $1,500 the same day regardless. At GunsAmerica we would rather see the stocking dealers make the money if the money is to be made. Stocking gun dealers, who are getting most of the 100 or so KSG shotguns that Kel-Tec can produce every day, are the foundation of our 2nd Amendment freedom in America since the Gun Control Act of 1968, and anything that makes a brick and mortar stocking gun dealer a little extra is a good thing. Eventually supply should catch up to demand on the KSG. Kel-Tec opened a whole new production department this year and is working to further capacity even more.
In the long run we will all get our KSGs. It is a high quality firearm from a company that has improved every year since they began Kel-Tec is in the firearms business for the long haul, and the KSG is here to stay. Patience grasshopper. All good things come to those who wait. And no, ours is NOT FOR SALE!
The Kel-Tec KSG – Spread and Velocity with Common Defensive Loads
 Remington 9 pellet 00 Buckshot. Average velocity was 1236 feet per second. The pattern dispersed cleanly and all 9 pellets were on the 12″ target at 10 yards.
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 This is the Federal LE132, which was the same as the PD132. The “Flight Control Wad” stretches the entire length of the cartridge and the shot is buffered with a white plastic fiber. As you can see it stayed the tightest of our group at 10 yards. Average velocty was 1145 feet per second. Total payload was weighed at 444 grains.
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 Hornady Critical Defense is an 8 pellet high velocity round we measured at an average 1542 feet per second for the 381 grain payload. It was the most impressive of all the ammo we tested for a nice control and even group on the center of the target.
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 We could not distinguish much difference between the Critical Defense and this Superformance. The average velocity was almost the same, 1538, and the payload is the same, but was slightly tighter and lower.
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 This is not the reduced power/recoil Fiocchi, and its 9 pellets were the fastest of the 9 pellet 00 buck loads at 1282 feet per second. It kicked the hardest of all the loads as well, and the spread was impressivly controlled for a low cost buckshot.
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 The widest pattern of the 9 pellet was the Winchster military issue load of 00 buck. It was close to the Fiocchi at 1276 feet per second.
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 Full power Federal Power-Shok was not as tight as the reduced recoil stuff, but delivered more of a punch, delivering 1265 feet per second in a tight and centered pattern.
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 This is the Aguilla Minishell. It measured 1280 feet per second, but not all the balls were on target.
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 There should have been a total of 11 holes, with 4 of #1 buck and 7 of #4 buck. As you can see, there is no traditional wad. The plastic disk is it, and the pattern is too wide for anything but point blank, bedroom distances.
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 Over 300 grains traveling at over 1200 feet per second is a nasty load, if you can get the shot on target.
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 The PDX1 from Winchester packs a rifles slug with 3 buckshot. It is devastating.
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 At almost 600 grains, we measured this at over 1000 feet per second.
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haha, I addore Ben Afflecks old Beard.
My son-in-law bought one of these and brought it out. He had put a red dot sight on it and we calibrated it so the it would hit an 11inch gong at 50 yards every time with lead slugs. It is accurate and shoots well. There were no malfunctions. It would make a good home defense gun and maybe a police gun, but it would not make it in the military as it is too slow to reload and you have to pay attention to what you are doing at a time when taking your eyes off the enemy can prove fatal. I don’t know where it could be legal to hunt with, so it is a pure fun and defensive gun. Which is a perfectly respectable reason to have one.
Kel-Tec KSG is a very interesting innovative shotgun and it will definitely find fans among gun enthusiasts. It is compact, has 15 rounds and easy to use, But I like simple solutions and my Remington 870 will do the job just fine.
I see the article was written in 2012. Kel Tec KSG now is generation 2 with many improvements that accrual eliminate all FTF. I just got a new one in burnt Bronze for only $695. Yes indeed the prices are down and they have a lot on the market.-June 2015. Small. compact, and a very solid gun. They want more $ for the rattily, larger, and longer UTG. The UTG is not made in the USA but in Islam Turkey. The KSG is made in the USA. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xaxGhKLMqY
Picked up my KSG (Titanium) on Saturday, two weeks after telling my dealer I wanted one. $999; added a MagPul AFG-2 for another $35, and and a LaserLyte Center Mass for another $150. Feels and looks great, and I had the dealer mount the MagPul just to be sure it would stay on. I checked the state laws (Maryland) before buying and it is specifically listed as OK – and Maryland isn’t particularly gun friendly. Looking forward to taking it to the range next weekend.
The KSG is nice, but I prefer the Phase-plasma in 40 watt. It melts the flesh, but absolutely will not penetrate walls unless you set it to do so.
You should try the Aguila slugs. Holds 23. 11 slugs in one tube and 12 buck shot in the other is hard to beat. Add a forward grip with a light, a Laserlyte center mass green laser and the flip up sights and you’re good to go.
I have a Kel-tec KSG sitting in my safe right now, its an amazing gun. It feels great in your hands, so much so that you wanna make whoosh sounds and aim around quick like a kid. So far I love the gun, very solid and just a nice feel to it. its very exellent with a strap, you can run around on your quad jumps, 60mph no problem. (yeah I put it through the torture test!)
Make the forward grip reposition tilt left, right and free movement for a more natural position on the forward arm. Make the trigger grip movable/locked tilt left or right for left or right handed shooter. The gun becomes a more natural extension of the body. Increases predatory presentation against an assailant.
reading the comments and the saga is long but there is a bulpup kit for it making it shorter then the keltec and a lot more capacity then the keltec also it is a semi auto I can shoot it faster and better stay on target all I can say is devastation and costs a lot less…. And did u watch the last show son of guns how they convert one to bulpup with a mac 11 attached underneath the saga is to cool so don’t knock the saga without knowing what u are talking about.
“After a few dozen rounds our shoulders were fine, but on a short sleeve day in sunny south Florida, there was a noticeable red mark where the shells where hitting on our wrists. Other than wearing a heavy shirt or coat, there is no real way around it.”
Oh come now…..the bow and arrow sorts solved this problem centuries ago………a leather gauntlet should work great. Ask a bow-hunter friend if he has a spare.
When I first started looking at shotguns for home defense the KSG and the UTS-15 were both very interesting to me. I did a lot of reserach regarding the both of them and after doing a few months of reserach I decided to go with the Benelli M4 instead. I read nothing but great things in regards to this shotgun and after purchasing it I put a EO-Tech 512 holographic sight on it and I must say I can’t be more satisfied.
M4 is an excellent gun. I was in a similar situation as you in terms of shotgun shopping, and ended up going with the recoil operated Benelli M2 with 21″ barrel instead of the M4. I added a magazine extension that extends to the barrel, and I plan to add a pistol grip style stock to finish it off. Fantastic firearms, those Benellis. Patterning one shot at a time from a benchrest was painful after a dozen or so rounds though. I suspect the KSG/UTS-15 would have some additional heft to reduce that felt recoil, but I do like the light weight of the Benelli when I’m carrying it for a while.
joe biden did not have this shotgun in mind,during his latest anti assault rifle rant.
I noticed that one person on here was boasting about killing a fawn. In which state is that legal? And in which reality is that moral?
These are the type of people who make it hard for the rest of us to fight for our 2nd amendment rights! Was this a plant by the anti-gun lobby?
I am amazed at the amount of comments/questions which your gun test report has generated.
Apparently it will be a while until I can go to a local ( New Jersey ) gunshop, with my cash in
hand, and expect to buy one of the exceptional guns.
Ref: the bruises from ejected shells. Did you try shooting this ambidextrous gun Left Handed?
Did you still suffer Bruising?
I saw my first one (on line) 2yrs ago and have been wanting one ever since. I saw one for sale at a gun show here in Abq NM, the guy was asking $1600.00 for it. I finally managed to get one about 2 weeks ago. I bought it at one of the local shops, they were asking $1200.00. I’m starting to see them more. Another local shop has one on consignment. I have yet to shoot mine, still getting educated on ammo (this is my first shot gun).
I am strictly a tyro with shotguns. I own a Saiga .410 for inside the home defense (although it would serve nicely as a “get off my lawn” gun, too).
Is there a way to mount a choke on the KSG so that the Aguila shorties could be held to a tighter group? Max range inside my home is 25 feet. I am looking for a relatively low-power “You .. lay there and bleed while I deal with your buddies” round that will not put my neighbor on a slab, too.
It’s okay if it shoots through a bad guy + one wall … just not two walls. Ever.
I’ve got wet plaster over concrete and lath. That’s stouter than drywall, but not quite armor plate. I need the indoors rounds to stay indoors.
Bill
Is a dealer a gouger or a shyster if he puts a gun on an auction site with no reserve and buyers bid it up to well over MSRP? I don’t think so. Should I sell my Apple stock below market price just because the P/E ratio doesn’t support the price? No one would!!! So why would you expect dealers, any dealers to sell their inventory for less than the market price? I got only one KSG last year and I sold a LOT of inventory with 5% margin. For $800, I’d keep it myself and play with it. For $1200 it’s out the door and I’ll wait a year for the next one. Dealers make very little money on guns regularly, like 5%. So when they get the opportunity to make 30% or 40%, far less than your typical retailer makes on any commercial product, let them get the price they deserve. The market’s willing to pay it, so that is what it’s worth. Stop buying them and the price will drop. BTW it’s really worth the money they are great guns. Same goes for the PMR30. Even us shysters want Keltec to produce a lot more, so the price drops and they are more available. We’d all rather sell more at lower margins than less at higher ones.
Kel Tec continues to make vapor ware. When one of their firearms finally does become available it’s subject to the typical Kel Tec price gouging routine. If you are going to report on Kel Tec, why not tell the truth?
Quick question for all the folks talking about ammo choices for this and other home def firearms. I’ve been loading my go-to home def gun (S&W .357) with frangible ammo because I’m concerned about penetrating not only my walls but the neighbor’s too. Any advice about the effectiveness of frangible ammo for home defense?
First of all, I am speaking to all as a resident of El Paso County, (Colorado Springs) Home Defense et al; is best defined herer as using a #4 birdhsop with a pump action Rem 870. Get down next toyour bed and IF the perp comes in your home, and after you rack the 12 gauge, use a #4 because the shot will not penetrate the dry wall, as will a .357; 44mag; 357 etc. MOST deputies here never discharge more than 3 rounds from their Glock 40, and
that is out in the open areas. Also, a #4, will put down any perp if hit in the mass of the chest area and when the coroner comes, he will not bother removing any of the shot – he will just say: Just a lot of red meat here! No mess, no perforated walls, just a terminated threat! We have the “Make my Day law” here. You break in, you are a
terminated residue of a former life form! Guys who keep a 357 on their night stand for self protection, are responsible for wherever that round you fired, ends up. And it MIGHT end up in some family members body as well.
Best article I’ve seen on these types of guns. Kel Tech like Masterpiece arms is difficult to get most times. I’ve owned a few and had mixed results on their handguns; still availability at MFRP is near impossible. How about doing a review on the Masterpiece 5.56 rifle?
Thanks for the info on the Keltec. If I missed it forgive me. I could not find any information of what style of operation this rig worked on. Is it a straight bolt blow back or is it gas operated? If I were in the market I would need to know this. The article speaks of how it kicks but no mention of mechanical operation.
Hi there;
One time you had a review on a mini shotgun for truckers, can you tell me which one was it? thanks.
It is actually a .50 cal blackpowder handgun, but it could be used as a shotgun as well. For a BP gun you are better with a ’58 Remington than this single barrel though.
http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/interstate-trucker-gun-cva-optima-v2-50-cal-pistol/
Get rid of the ridiculous brush catching forward grip and you will not hit your arm with the ejected casings!
Forward grips are for Hollywood, not tactical environments.
I love morons like this who have never shot the gun. It is the shooting hand that gets hit dufus.
Can anyone tell me what’s the going retail price. And where the hell to get one……..
The market is the market is the market. Quit criticizing sellers. About 25 years ago we were in Vegas and went to see the tiger act with Sigfreid and Roy. The tickets were a little over $100 and not special seating. We puzzled just a few minutes about why they were so expensive. Very simple answer, they sold out three shows a night every night they performed so they could pretty much charge whatever they wanted. Even if they increased to $150 a seat and only sold out 90%, they would still be net ahead of the game.
This is America, the U.S.A.. Supply and demand are not just words, they are reality.
Anything from Kel-Tec is cool to have right now.Try and find a Su-16A in 5.56-45mm or 223 Remington.I bought one in 2010 and never fired it.It will take the 10 round mags they sell with it or 30 round Pmags or the Sure fire 60 or 100 round mags.I put a red dot sight on it took it out to the outdoor range and I have been grinning ever since.Fun!!!
To Allen, way up top of the comments.
Quote:
“Just like no one is allowed to force you to sell something that you own for what they think is “fair”. It’s called freedom. You need to recognize that you don’t have a right to other people’s stuff at whatever price you think is right.”
You had best check your Freedoms. I refer you to the Governments “Right of Eminent Domain”
Tends to blow your theory right out of the water.
I just purchased this gun yesterday and love it highley recomend it
I have owned a KELTEC P-11 9mm pistol for a few years and have shot hundreds of rounds through it without a hickup. It is super accurate at close distances. However, my favorite toys are cowboy guns. Wish KELTEC would make a revolver. Although I own a AK-47, I don’t believe I will ever need anything like a street-sweeper unless we have an alien invasion.
I waited for years on this and still have not seen one. I decided to buy a semi auto Mossburg 930 that will hold nine rounds. If i can’t stop it with that, I don’t deserve to live.
Kel-tec doesn’t care how much my local shop sells their ksg for…How about 1900.00 plus tax…Thanks Shooters of Jacksonville Florida..I’ll be checking out other dealers and the UTA-15. Joe.
I’m not allowed to have one because of State laws. CA is fun and all but the gun laws here are ridiculous
wondwer what this baby would do with high velocity shredder rounds
Nice weapon but probably can’t find them or buy them in California!
Good news for the KSG in the wake of a potential gun ban. Their statement reads like they’re playing the victim in all this. Like somehow their financial loss producing guns is more important than the loss of my constitutional right to own guns.
Looks like a dandy to show off, though not of a lot of use at the range apart from testing. Alas, too rich for my blood. Kel-Tec has made a number of clunky-looking, reliable firearms at virtual bargain prices. I am somewhat surprised this did not stay in line with past offerings. Then again….it’s unique and while they remain rare, the “forbidden fruit” appeal will drive the market.
I have only seen 1 since they were even introduced!!! AND I OWN IT!!! Muahahahahaahahhaaaa
I stand corrected after re-reading the article, I now observe that you were referring to 1 3/4 shells.
As stated, an impressive article ..
Your otherwise impressive article states “the Kel-Tec KSG holds 25, count em, * t-w-e-n-t-y f-i-v-e * rounds, 12 each side, plus one.”
Well, I did count em and according to Kel Tec ‘s website , “the internal dual tube magazines hold an impressive 12 rounds of 12 gauge 3” rounds in total (6 per tube).”
I wish these were more available, I would love to get one to play with.
Rick
Awesome! Make this a semi-automatic and it would be over the top!
I have a ksg and a utas 15, by far hands down the ksg has to many problems , i have sent it back 5 times, as for my utas 15 not one problem, i paid 2500 for the ksg and 1200 for my utas 15 which came with both flip up sights a flash light laser and a canvas tactical case , the ksg came with the box no extras for such a expensive POS. If u really want a bad a$$ tactical shotgun go utas 15 or be dumb and get a 2500 POS.
Sounds like you over paid for your Keltec, dont bash the gun because you paid triple for it!!! Mine works like a dream
i have a ksg. i love it. ask any question , i ll answer honestly
Hey admin, you wanna show us some evidence of all these “hit or miss” Saiga’s you keep mentioning? If not, I gotta call “BullSh*t” on you.
And, how much are you being paid to continually promote this shotgun?
Seriously?
Continued production issues, continued price gouging, it almost appears intentional on the part of KT to inflate the market.
And, with the UTAS out, where is its review? Or is your contractual obligation to promote on KT products keeping you from doing one?
Bias, and misleading statements do not make good beds for reviews to rest in.
Hey Justin Timberlake CRY ME A RIVER!!!!!!!!!!!!! Saigas are pieces of shit, they are only popular because of RedJacket. The actions feel like a old grandmas vajayjay rough and dry. Hahahahahaaaa The only Sega worth owning is a Dreamcast or Genisis Segaaaaaaaaaaaa.
My keg will not eject always and I have to pick the shell with a screwdriver. I think its a p o s
Got tired of waiting for the KSG and bought a UTS 15. LOVE IT!!
Well personally after reading the reviews on the new Kel Tec shotgun you know the one I mean the one that
started off at $600.00 and is now well over $800.00 plus figure. Ya that’s the one. From reports on your site after a 100 rounds or so it can double as a hammer for pounding in those nails at construction jobs you might have around the house. The comment from the reviewer (The Word) above my comment. He has made a vary profound statement about the possibility of loosing a body part or at least intimated that because of a possible problem with the slid failing KUDDOS to you (THE WORD) That’s something I never even considered. Well in summation barring the $800.00 plus price tag I feel Kel Tec engineers still have some design issues to face.I will say one thing though the gun looks real good but looking real good won’t get the job done,and $800.00 is a lot to pay for a hammer.
Seriously amazed with your style of writing really, some thing tells me you
might be a professional. ! . !
Notice your forehand position on the front vertical grip, when installed in that manner, is right at the end of the barrel. Think about the implications of what may happen if that grip fails. Where is your hand when it extends outward as you slam the slide forward, or your hand simply slips off during a rapid pump/fire scenario? Yep, right in the line of fire. There’s nowhere else for it to go and no time to change course.
Think it won’t happen? Think again. Just food for thought when operating a system designed in this manner.
Thats only happens to dumb fucks, its best out there so you dont short stroke it. If you have problems with shooting yourself maybe i would suggest tennis instead of playing with guns.
Interesting article and interesting reading other people’s comments. I was originally interested in getting a KSG, but after shopping around I realize that the asking price of these is just ignorant. I assume that it is because of limited availability that I am finding these in the $1200-$1700 range. Quite frankly, the idea of spending that much money on a pump action shotgun is literally laughable to me. You can have your overpriced KSG, give me a Mossberg 590A1 SPX. Then I can use the additional $1000 to install a nice security system or buy another .40 cal handgun and a Rottweiler pup. Either way, I come out ahead. Spending $1200-$1700 on a pump shotgun is just ridiculous.
Duane: I ordered mine in September 2011 for $670.00 from my local gun store. Sadly I have not seen it yet but I refuse to pay what these online gun stores are charging. It is not the distributers who are gouging people it is the stores. My local guy is a stand up/ no b.s. kind of guy and will forever have my business. Hope to get it soon but….
WRONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG THE DISTRIBUTORS ARE SELLING THEM AT THE GUN SHOWS FOR TRIPLE THE MONEY, WHY SEND IT TO A GUN STORE FOR RETAIL. MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL. WELL MAYBE TO THE BROKE MAN BUT NOT TO THE BIG GUY, HE WANTS DOLLAR SIGNS POINT BLANK PERIOD
You show me where you can get a .40 cal pistol and a Rottie for $1000 and i will show you 2 pieces of shit you just wasted $1000 on
Well personally the $800.00 plus price tag on your new shotgun is a bit high for me since I’m on a fixed income.
But who knows maybe the Gov. will cough up the three years of COLA they screwed us seniors out of four years ago lol. If they do I’ll get in line for one oh and then maybe we can really have some kind life.
It looks like a good weapon so far, I watched several YouTube videos and I am impressed with it.
The problem is finding one for a reasonable price, I’m not paying more than $800 so it looks like I will be getting an 870 instead.
To the people that are paying anything over $800 YOU are part of the problem, and to the one’s that pay over $800 AND complain about it, YOU guys can eat it because YOU are the problem. The only reason pig dealers are price gouging are because of idiots like YOU that are willing to feed them.
Wether it be a car a motorcycle or a weapon, anyone offers to sell you anything over MSRP(more than what it’s worth) you should always turn and walk away. Dealers have a saying, there is a fool born every minute. Don’t be that fool with more dollars than sense.
They are starting to make their way in just be patient.
I just bought a UTAS 15 on G.A. for $1050 instead of the overpriced Kel-Tec. Some people don’t like the UTAS because it is from a company based in Turkey. That’s like saying items made in Taiwan are crap, now a days it doesn’t matter the country it comes from, anyone can suck. After doing some research on the two I feel the UTAS is a better design; the ambidextrous design doesn’t matter to me, especially after seeing how the Kel-Tec ejects out into your wrist, that would get a little annoying. People might call me stupid for not going Kel-Tec, that’s like saying you should drive a Toyota, not a Honda- It gets the job done! Just my 2 cents, will find out in a few days once I get it.
I had a family member point this shotgun out to me online a number of months ago. I looked at the web, did a little reading, watched some reviews and started looking for one, kind of on the side, with no urgency. Recently I sold some toys and stepped up the efforts to find one to take a look at in my own hands. I am very skilled from building fine furniture, to being a heavy equipment mechanic, so I know a little about how things should feel and work. Recent events around the world finally pushed me forward to decide a few home defense items would be a cautious choice with the hopes of never needing them. I am 48 and have lived in lots of places in the US and abroad. I have been in some very bad neighborhoods but never found myself in a situation where I needed a gun to settle it. But the future is the future and if society breaks down who knows what tool I may need to take out of my tool box.
The Kel Tec KSG was a want, with thoughts one day it might be a need. With that in mind I sent several emails looking for one and then a friend told me of Armslist.com. There was a gentleman with one for sale, new in the box, in Seattle for $960. He never returned an email to even say it was gone. I looked and saw all of the people trying to make a serious buck off of their investments and that was not for me. So I posted that WTB and I was willing to pay up to $1000 to get one. I was contacted by two sellers in my state. One who had a brand new one in the box with MagPul sights and foregrip. The other, I think the seller might have been a little less than honest about how many shots went through his gun, or maybe I just misinterpreted the pictures. I bought the ITB with some fear because I was handing over $1100, which was maybe a little rich but by the time I found one at list and equipped, shipped and paid a FFL to get it to me might have been close. The seller turned out to be great and gun was as advertised to me. They feel a lot more solid in hand then they look in the pictures.
On to the good stuff, picked the gun up Friday afternoon but had a date so did not really get to it until yesterday. Was going to start breaking it in at a friends farm and decided on skeet loads at #8 to started. Got up early and learned to break it down and re-assemble, not complicated but takes a few minutes to learn to get everything aligned properly in the right order and then the thing slips back together. Took it out loaded it with Federal shells and fired the first two and got a jam, extractor had not gripped the first round and the second was mid load. Unjammed and thought maybe my techniques, so did it again with the same results. Had to break it down to remove the spent casing. Put it back together and paid more attention to my moves got off two or three shots and had the same issue. New gun expect some issues but my new Kimber 1911 Custom TLE II 45 was flawless out of the box. Disassembled the shotgun and to lubed everything and reassembled, a few shots and jammed. When I purchased ammo I knew to pick up a few brands, pulled the Federal out and loaded some Winchester, all issues went away. Gun performed flawlessly from that point on. Wass just looking for a couple of spent casing to compare but looks like a I have the Winchesters but not the Federals. I have already exchanged the unopened boxes so I cannot quote stats but the specs were similar. The Federals with $5 a box cheaper for whatever that matters.
As it relates to other comments found on here. Not sure what long term quality and life expectancy will be but the gun is solid and with proper care and usage I do not see any major problems. I, like many, was hesitant because of some issues i had read about. I would suggest be careful what you decide to use for a foregrip because if it is too long and you are jamming the action the physics might not work from undue stresses in the wrong directions on the rail. I would suggest low profile and proper straight back and forward action cycling. I like this shotgun a lot as did the other “regular” guys who fired it yesterday. I intentionally passed around my new baby to see how it would react in the hands of different minds. Everyone loved it. Two of the guys were barely on a couple of pounds heavier than the gun and there was a little rock back from recoil. I am a little more stout, big shoulders solid frame and barely felt the recoil with the rounds I was using. But face it folks it real only purpose is to do damage when you call on it. I now have some larger rounds that I will test fire later today or next weekend. But for home defense I intend to keep the skeet rounds in. The spread at 10-20′ was adequate enough that I think if I tag you with it your day just got very very uncomfortable. And as I live in a townhouse, the loads are a lot more neighbor friendly.
Just as a last thought train, I have an conditional situation at my home that I think I will always have the rest of my life no matter where I live. We have a couple of dogs in the house and one has a special diet so we exclude her from being able to eat the other dogs food by leaving the food bowl in our bedroom. To give the cat access to her food in the same room for the same reason I installed a plastic cat door about 6″ off the floor in one of the door panels. I have a emergency flash light /night light in the hall, between the two items I can go prone on the bedroom floor, sighting out the cat door and the light in the hall prevents hall people from seeing past the cat door. Not a good situation if you are roaming my house in the dark and you do not belong there. I can see you down the barrel of my shotgun and you cannot see me. I like the tactical advantage.
I will not tell anyone you will have the same experience with this shotgun but I will tell you knowing what I do now and valuing my money, I would repeat the process. More importantly I will allow my stepson to spend his hard earned money to get one with my blessing. Not many things in life are perfect with no faults, so you take the good with the bad and I think for me this shotgun has a lot more good going for it than bad. Of course remember you have to do your part and have a brain to eliminate some of the complaints others have lodged.
One last note
Intriguing shot gun. I was never a fan of the bull pup designs until I tried a couple. Got a bull pup AK that is a hoot. Had an RFB and loved it- and it would cycle dud loads through the ejection tube no problem. I regret having to sell it, but the property taxes needed to be paid… and yes I made a profit on the deal.
Price gouging complaints are pretty poorly thought out- it aint wrong to make a profit. It might be inconvenient, but quityerbellyaching. KT does cool engineering, and just cause I can’t get what I want when I want it is NO reflection on them- just my own ‘urgent’ want. We as Americans are spoiled by the readily available ‘stuff’ – when ammo was short and ARs/AKs were difficult to grab, like a couple years back for the election cycle, lots of folks complained bitterly, and senselessly. We aint got patience, so we complain. Losers complain, the rest of us figure out how to adapt, overcome and improvise in the meantime.
I will wait for KT to make my PMR30 and KSG, and the replacement RFB. The wait will be worth it.
Thanks for a pretty well balanced review that agrees with every thing I have already figured out about the KSG that one of my bosses got, after a 6 month wait. It just confirmed my commitment to future bull pup purchases. And it confirmed my tacit approval of KT. I never cared for their itty bitty pop guns, but the got it right with those three. Wonder what’s next?
Wake up, people. These shotguns do not exist. Nor will they ever exist and be for sale. It is not going to happen. Not in your lifetime. Mere mortals will never get one. Give up, move on, turn the corner……….
Should be getting mine Wednesday. Cant wait to try it out.
A very in depth review on what I consider to be one of the most progressive shotguns on the market today. Kudos to the people at GunsAmerica for putting this together.
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Is this legal in the land of no – California ??
why did you not have problems with this gun?? Ahh… they sent it to you.
FAIL….
Next time test something that you bought at a gun shop not some fluff and buff gunsmithed to death custom job a manufacturer sent you.
I do not completely invalidate your test, only about 50%. I would have thought you would know better then this.
You did admit to it though so your not total dupes just half ass dupes.
I will not make a habit of coming back to this blog with these types of new gun test being foisted off on us with no attempt at all to own up to your means of acquiring the gun except way down in a reply to a comment.
I am not anti Kel-tec, I just bought a PF-9 and I do intend on buying one of the KFG shotguns but I will not be ripped off so I can have the gun of the week. I’ll start saving my nickles and in a couple of years when they sell for a reasonable price, the bugs are worked out I’ll be ready and have the cash.
Suggestion for future reviews and integrity. List the source of the gun right at the top of the story in the future. This way when a manufacturer sends you a fluff and buff gunsmithed custom gun and you test it as an “off the self” gun that “any one could buy from their local gun store” those of us who know better will know better and those to stupid to know or care will not know or care.
###
I’ve been on the waiting list for a KSG for 10 months, and still have no clue when I’ll ever get one. The distributor says they are just hard to come by, and Keltec says they are making them as fast as they can (how ever many that may be) but have no control over the distributors. Waiting with no estimate of delivery is frustrating, and the news of price gouging is disheartening.
I’m looking for a Kel-Tec KSG 14+1 and I’m wondering how much
The guy in the red shirt is hot. ^_^
And what he wants to know is, but are you?
I ordered the KSG a month ago for $680…cant wait to get it!
Hey Mr. NH,
Have you received yours yet?
What was the manufacturing date on the tests unit?
In all the comments I read, I only found one request for a review from GA on the UTAS-15.
I remember reading that they were banned form importation, but that an American company was going to start manufacturing them. Any news on that? I like the KSG, and may get one in a couple of years, but the looks of the UTAS-15 appeal even more, and they’re said to have a lot more (like a laser) as standard equipment.
Comments? Anyone? Thanks.
🙂
We are going to get one when they have some to sell in country. I would still buy the KSG if you can get one.
Where CAN I BUT THE 22-MAGUM PISTOL OR THE SHOTGUN. I NEED A LIST IF WHAT FEW DEALERS YOU HAVE AND LOCATON AND PHONE. E-MAIL ADDRESS, WHATEVER.
THANK YOU,
RST
Guess I am luckier than you guys as I now have two(2) RFB’s received in just the past 20 days. Only negatives I have found is the fact that you have to cycle a missfire out thru the ejection chute (there may be a way around this but I have not found it yet) and the ejection chute is a tad tight not allowing you to point the weapon down and unload the empties. For the size caliber this is a soft shooter as far as I am concerned. The felt recoil is just slightly more than my Stag 3G. In reassembling after cleaning you have to use a drift punch to align the rear pins to reinstall the rear of the weapon.
I’m terribly sorry to cause even a modicum of jealousy to my fellow brothers-in-arms (pardon the pun) but I snagged a KSG last week. The guy was a pretender, so I had to take advantage of his lack of weapons knowledge/training. He had a ‘smith trick it out to look “cool”, but kept short-stroking every other round, and whined that it was too heavy fully loaded. What a puss. I took off the SWAT light, the Surefire green dot, and did some micro-dermabrasion to the trigger assembly. Filled both tubes with Hypersonic, 2 drops of milspec SP-1 oil to the slide, and WOW!! You dudes HAVE to HAVE one of these puppies…there is no living thing on Earth that can survive (at close range) it’s almost like having sex. And to think I only traded dumbass a SLR-95 straight up. I’m good. S.
Hhmmm… a highcap bullpup pump shotgun. Sounds like a solution looking for a problem!
Ammo cap: If anyone from team armchair actually spent time shooting at the range, they might have learned from the seasoned pump gun shooters how to keep their pig fed, and quickly! Lugging around 10 exfra rds of weighton a gun makes for slow transitions; no thanks.
Bullpup: this may be a good solution for driveby shootings in the hood, but otherwise it is painfully obvious by watching this gun being shot that the recoil recovery is slow due to excessive verticle rise… think fulcrum effect.The eaisier transportability is far outwieghed by bad ergos. And ifyou feel that a slightly shorter overall lenth of gun & usercombo makes much of a difference in the fun house, id suggest you actually spend some time in one… it’sno big deal.
For well under half the price, you can pickup a real tactical pump shotty that will out shoot this anomoly all day long…l. for the same price, you can pickup a reliable semiauto tacticalthat will shoot rings around it. For my money, or yours, id stick with what the cops and military is using.
Personally, I do not deal with dealers that mark their price up. With that said, it is a Kel-Tec so I will wait and see what else comes out. I will say this, the design and engineering brought tactical shotguns to a whole new level!
Only time will tell whether or not Kel-Tec’s durability is up to par, if they can make them.
I want one
Thanks to all you guys with your comments on the Kel-Tec KSG 15 Round Shotgun. What all of you have to say is the best info anyone could want. I also agree with “buy a saiga”.
Bad advice if you intend to keep it the gun for any length of time and shoot it. They are hit or miss
Could you send me the model numbers and manufacturers of the sights, laser, front grip, and anything else you tricked out your shotgun with so I can do it to mine when I find one to buy? Thank you
I’ve been following the development of this weapon since it’s inception, and have called in markers from any/all pals of mine with FFL’s…no dice. The lucky few that have ’em are holding on like grim death. Hopefully, the filthy weasels whom believe the greenback is the “Be all to end all” are now being squeezed out of the market, and the rest of us can have a turn at the table. Should be interesting…Savvy?
Got my KSG today. Order mine the end of April and got it in 6 weeks. Haven’t shot it yet. It from laying around with it I can tell its built well.
Please tell me where did you order it through ! Thanks, Brian
Has anyone with a KSG experienced using one of the magpul angled foregrips for the front lower rail- any details about the experience, or pros and cons from a physical ergonomic point of view?
Considering an AFG2 with an 11 slot rail.
Overall the KSG looks like it is a very good shotgun. There are a couple of problems with the bullpup configuration however.
1.Because of the location of the receiver you can’t top up the magazine with the gun shouldered.
2. The short overall length means that it would be possible to get your hand in front of the muzzle during rapid firing. The vertical hand grip helps prevent this but it places extra stress on the action bars, One 870 expert I talked to says he sees a lot of warped action bars on those shotguns equipped with with vertical grips. A better solution would be a loop like Mossberg uses with some of its short barreled shotguns.
That is probably because the 870 wasn’t made for a grip. The ksg was of course. Big difference. You can easily top the mag off while shouldered.
Larry, I don’t understand your post.
If you owned the Street Sweeper, prior to it becoming a DD, then no fee’s were required to do so, the Guvmint gave owners a one time free pass to register them, and add them to the “List”.
IF you did not take the free pass, your weapon became contraband, I had a number of customers who wondered whether they should register, or bury them, I advised that since they would double in value the day the registration period ended, they should probably go ahead, and file the paperwork, take a nice profit if the ever sold it, and stay out of jail if caught with one not registered.
If you bought one after the ban, a 200 dollar transfer tax would be needed, but, I don’t understand why yours cost 400? Was it a short barreled model that required two tax stamps?
And to your question about DD status?
Yes, according to the “Sporting” rules in place, stupid as they are, there is really no functional difference between one of these, and a Street Sweeper/Striker 12, though the striker, as you should know, was basically a revolver, and this is a pump.
Just, as there in no real difference between a SAIGA 12 and a USAS12. Especially when the S12 is modded to take a pistol grip, especially when matched with a high cap drum.
There was a study by the ATF regarding the “Importability” of certain shotguns, IE, the Saiga, but as I understand it, the House of Reps, has removed funding to the ATF for any further action on the matter, IE, again, the matter was never brought to a conclusion, but, they (ATF) have no funds with which to pursue the matter.
I also have a StreetSweeper that I have been forced to register as a destructive device. According to the criteria they gave me for my weapon, this weapon seems to clearly fall into the Destructive Device catagory. I paid $400 for the transfer tax, plus it required the recommendation of a sherrif and a complete FBI type background check. Numerous Street Sweepers and similar high capacity shotguns were manufactured before registration was required. However, all weapons in this catagory must be registered …no grandfathering. I believe that the penalties for not registering a destructive device, like a machine gun are fairly draconian.
Would somebody please clarify the status of registration requirements for this weapon?
Thanks!
WoW… Is there a video of this that I can watch?
Thank you.
– Mikie ~
WOW
Great article and I really wan one.The ONLY thing holding me back is KalTec’s reputation. I will feel better when in a year or two we see that they have no bugs and/or that PD’s have placed them in use and have not had any problems from them. I read one poster who said he had a problem with the pump action himself and the weapon is now useless and cannot be repaired! He further stated that he has been made aware that this is not uncommon and KalTec is not helping? Sounds bad so I need to wait until the price drops to a reasonable amount and the reliability has been proven. I I need the weapon, I want it to work!
Kel-Tec’s reputation was not so good ten years ago but these days you don’t hear a valid complaint about any of their guns that have come out in at least several years. That ship is tight these days. Just keep in mind that it says on the website, probably referring to the pistols, that the guns have an expected life of 6,000 rounds. The people you hear online catcalling are shooting old Kel-Tecs that were problem guns already most likely and they bought it cheap for a reason. I wouldn’t say buying the KSG isn’t a risk, because it is a new and unproven design, but Kel-Tec is a good company from everything we have seen.
My question is how fast can you reload it? Is it practical for Action Shotgun or 3 Gun? On some of the shorter courses, I would think 15 rounds of uninterrupted shotgun fun could really lower times. I am alo intruged with the ability to load one side with slugs and one with shot. This would be very effective on mixed courses where you won’t have to rework your shoot plan on the fly if you miss.
Thanks
-Burger
It takes a while, but it isn’t going to run as fast as a semi-auto regardless for 3 gun. You could use the aguilla birdshot for 25 total capacity if you wanted to.
Very interesting and informative article. To the retired military folks. First, thanks for your service. Second, you can’t have too many shotguns. My “new gun” is an LC Smith, probably prewar SXS. I can assure that a double load of #7 1/2 shot will get anyone’s attention. I have been inadvertently peppered with #6’s from well over 100 yards. They still hurt. The SXS coach gun is my back-up till I get to the Benelli.
I have a Benelli M-3 which was another of those evil banned shotguns. The M-4 is one next on my list. I have a Kel-Tec .380 Handgun and until Ruger made it, nobody liked it. All it has needed is a little polishing. Don’t know about warranty issues as I have had none.
As to the “need” for more rounds. I have to carry mine in a side saddle to get as many as the KSG has available instantly. It’s true that only one good shot will stop the threat, but like confronting a huge grizzly, you never know what is going to happen at that critical moment, or how one might react, or even if you can. Most folks that hunt the big bears usually transition from the adequate gun to the biggest with the most bullets the quickest.
You picked the same simple effective basic items to add to the shotgun that I would add to my AR bedside gun or a “Bug Out” gun. I prefer tritium ghost ring sights that come on the Benelli M-3 and M-4 and the EoTech.
Good article and hope the “Bullpups” catch on. I have a couple that I enjoy shooting in .5.56.
I paid well above retail… with few regrets, as I have the KSG now.
So I guess we’ll have to see how it holds up once I get it out in the field. I have seen videos that show this shotgun to be very unreliable. Failure to cycle cleanly, to bind up, to double-feed, to fail to feed entirely.
I added a forward vertical grip with 200 lumen flashlight and 5nw green laser, a second backup red laser, and added open sights to fit my needs..
14 rounds of your choice of .00 buckshot or deer slugs is a lot of hurt in one package.
For home defense, it’s just about right.
About the only gripe I have is slings.. hard to use tight slings on a pump shotgun without the sling constantly getting in the way. I took mine off completely.
I plan on adding picatinny covers on the exposed rails so I won’t get cut up on the exposed edges- it’s an easy fix.
I have a Benelli M4 which is pretty nice as well- so I think I’m prepared for the apocolypse, or whatever.
I still have my reservations and concerns about reliability and whether it will stand up to use when the time comes I absolutely HAVE to have it work without fail. That concerns me greatly…
Please stick to the reviews and leave out the politics
This article came a little too late for me as I just purchased a Mossberg 930 SPX Semi-auto. I already owned a Maverick 88 12 GA and Remington 870 20 gauge, so investing in another shotgun is not in consideration. Anyway, I was very impressed by the target photos after firing the different types of ammunition. I am relatively new to shotguns (30 years in the Army carrying either an M16/M4 Rifle or M1911/M9 Pistol). I am wondering if the patterns will be similar, despite the gun that fired them. I always assumed that the barrel length and choke tube or flash suppressor determined the pattern. I have been buying different 12 gauge shells, mainly the brand on sale. The primary intended use for my Mossberg is to engage potential threats at 20 yards, which is roughly the distance between my house and the road. Perhaps a more experienced “shotgunner” can answer my question. Thanks.
Every shotgun shell patterns differently, however, certain brands or types of loads will AVERAGE in a predictable manner from your bore. Based on my experience w/ most types of buckshot- 20 yards is about the limit w/ 12 GA and a cylinder bore choke.The pattern w/ 00 buck 9 pellet loads will be larger than a big beach ball with significant holes in the pattern at 20 yards+ from a true cylinder bore. Barrels that were cut and NOT factory Cyl bore can be worse. If the muzzle was not cut square or trued up, worse still. ( again different brands of guns and chokes will vary patterns) I prefer to shoot a Modified choke or Improved Modified (slightly tighter- but not full choke) w/ 00 buck if you think the threat is going to happen out doors. Imp/Modified tightens up the pattern considerably and with plated / buffered shot ( Federal Premium) it gives good saturation out to nearly 40 yards. I think 00 buck has the best balance of # of pellets, size of pellets and weight of pellets for penetration. Across the bedroom or down the hall it does not matter what load you choose….but you still must aim. My Rem 870 in my master bedroom has a factory slug barrel, w/ Meproilght Tritium night sights w/ lock tight, Surefire 200 lumen LED flashlight, w/lock tight. I have seen most electronic sights (except AIMPOINT) fail after a few hundred full power slug and buck rounds.Keep it simple/ reliable on a serious home defense weapon. I load a heavy copper plated # 4 bird-shot Turkey load in the chamber.Thankfully, I have never encountered a bad guy on our property- but hundreds of crows( I hate crows) RABID foxes, aggressive dogs,coyotes etc. are common.The Turkey loads handle those thin skinned problems well. Next up,2 rounds of Federal 00 buck then alternate Breneke slug, buckshot, slug, buckshot, slug for the balance of the magazine. The thinking is, If i can’t solve the problem(s) with a heavy Turkey load and 2 hits of buckshot- something more serious has developed that requires big penetrating bullets. I keep extra slugs on a buttcuff holder, buckshot on a side saddle on the gun. Changing ammo type in a fight, in the dark is a difficult skill to master, a very perishable skill if not practiced constantly- I plan to shoot everything 2x so they get 1 of each. Need to change from slug to buck? No problem, pull the trigger…. it’s the next one comin’ up…
I know this is an old comment board/article, but: If you are after 20 yard patterns, try a smaller sized lead load like BBB or T, maybe 4buck and a fuller turkey-style choke. Or do what I do and run an open cylinder choke and Federal Flite Control 00 buck. Just shot it the other day at 20 yards with Benelli M2 w/21″ barrel with cylinder choke and got consistent 5 inch patterns. No fliers and even pattern. Excellent load.
Ha admin, I am the coolaid. I retired from the82nd.last month. I would have loved a 15 round shotty.i.carried a 12gauge mossy, m4 as well as an m14 on occasion. I also entered rooms saying I am here to get you out. Pretty funny your choice of words because I did kind of work for the government. .. . not really though. Myself and my men could use this tool in very effective ways. Gotta give you propps for that coolaid and government wise crack man, good one.
This is a fantastic piece of American ingenuity, definitely a must have for going on zombie patrol after the s**t hit’s the fan! Can’t wait to get one!!!!
^^ I live in california and I was wondering the same, its time to upgrade my 13 yr old shotgun and this would be the perfect upgrade 🙂
We don’t know about the kali issues. It is just a pump shotgun lol.
I have seen these in Cali, specificly in martinez for nearly double msrp, but best to stick with a defensive weapon that maintains a good track record. A Moss 590 (about 300 bucks) and a kimber 1911 from milpitas firearms $750 brand new) stay in my bedroom. Both have served my country’s military for a long time and together cost less, if paying the insane mark-ups, than the 15round shotty prone to brake. Did they ever work out that slam fire jam either? I realize it’s not meant to slam fire, nor is any other modern shotgun really, but doing so should not cause a jam. And if for some reason one is concerned about ammo capacity, although to me worrying about ammo capacity in a home defense situation is analogous to worrying about what material the stock is made out of in case one needs to ‘hit’ an intruder( pressumably from running out of ammo, at which point your job of defending yourself has most likely failed), centurion makes some .65 ball in mini 2 1/4″ shells of which nine fit in the 20″ barrel mag, plus one in the pipe, on the 590. Not great for home defense but guaranteed to stop anyone, they also make buckshot in the same size shells.
Very well thought out, and written article . Is their any information indicating that law enforcement or military are getting first crack at these new shotguns. Make no mistake, I thoroughly.agree that they should have.unlimitted access to fill their arms rooms with all.the latest.and greatest weaponry to keep our protectors safe. Could that be making the cost hover over that thousand dollar barrier? Regardless the price, I know I will be scourering the countryside.for this masterpiece of home defense, or breaching and assult instrument.that will make the bad guys run for the hills.
ok now just drink this coolaid. Don’t worry we’re from the government and we’re here to help.
Right! We’re from the government and we’re here to screw you!
Will it be legal in California? Or, like so many good guns, will we be unable to purchase one.
That depends a lot on how you vote.
What about California are they legal?
good review and i think I’ll stick with my Saiga. Thanks.
The KSG looks great. I wonder how long it will take Obama’s Treasury dept. to declare it a “destructive device” making it illegal to own as Clinton did with the “Street Sweeper”?
I agree with Tarz.Kel-tec=fascinating concepts.Epic fail on follow through.
TRY and get a PMR30 . Kel Tec has a hell of a way to run a railroad.
Thanks for testing with the mini-shells, was really wondering about those, and it makes it even more versatile. Did you try mixing different length shells in your loadout?
no not yet good idea I think. Hmm.
What about the breaking handguards? How about addressing the issues these are having, instead of throwing out free good press for a company that can’t get its items to market in a timely manner? Or have the bugs worked out before they ship?
Did KT ever consider running a couple thousand of these into stock, and after a few months of production flooding the market to make sure MSRP, is that? No, they have been trickling out for months, the first I saw go on auction, went for over 4000 dollars. How STUPID was that buyer??? How happy was that seller? Yeah, and it came from a seller in Cocoa Beach? So, where are Kel Tecs made??????
And, what a crock of shit about the stocking dealers being America’s greatest heros? I suppose in the next Obama campaign speech, we can expect Police, Teachers, Firemen, and Stocking Gun Dealers to all be the only people in the country deserving special praise?
Why do they deserve first shot at price gouging? I do love the self defense in the article, justifying it, and blaming people in the same article.
Truth is, years ago, when STOCKING GUN DEALERS wanted NOTHING TO DO, with AR’s, let alone AK’s, it was the SMALL DEALERS who took the heat, and put unpopular guns into the hands of people who wanted them.
Now, that its the rage to be tacticool, post Assault weapons ban, THEY are the ones getting the evil weapons first?
Naaah, this article just shows bias against the people that drive the gun industry, and thats not Walmart, Dicks, or any other of the mass market stocking gun dealers that can afford to buy guns 30 deep, and get the discounts that small dealers can’t.
AMEN to that
You are correct, sir!
Well said, trooper!!
yes, I was “Blessed” to be one of the first to buy one of these….. paid way over retail. had to have it. DISSAPOINTED !!!!! after about 100 rounds, the poly molded pump, seperated from the metal that actually loads the 2nd shell. this makes it impossible to shoot. Gunsmith says I have a $1200 boat anchor, it cant be fixed. Dealer says he has 2 others out there with the same problems and will NOT send them back. I cannot get a responce from Keltec, seems they are busy building more and dont care about those of us who buy one !
there are videos out there of the same problem and no solution (see cheaper than dirts article) this isnt well desigen , its crappy plastic, poor customer service, and built to fail.
Yes be the first at your range to own one, after 1 afternoon you will only have a boat anchor with bragging rights.looks cool, but really is junk. Reviews arent honest, they are designed to sell guns.
This is a keltec piee of junk,
Both my sons and son in law were dying to own one until they got a hold of mine and saw its repeated jams and then breakage with no solution or repair offered.
Buy a saiga , its cheaper too.
Finally!! Thanks for the honest review!! I find the continual great views very suspicious as well. Similar to pharmaceutical companies pushing the newest crap on the market. But I guess if they said anything bad about the firearm the manufacturer would stop sending them weapons at no charge.
I have had mine for a few weeks now and lucked up at a gunshow here in FL and paid $850. Anyways, I love mine, only issue is a weak extractor. I have emailed back and forth with Keltech and called them and they are great to work with. Life time warranty, why would you not just send it in fix it and sell it if you’re not happy.
So can some one tell me why my streetsweper is a destructive devise and these are not? what is there sporting porpose?
Managed to find one at a large gun store in J’ville FL …. had ONE. The price? Over $2k. Didn’t even bother holding it.
Liked the review, I have been wanting one of these as well. Did it feel awkward at first then fell into place, or does it still feel awkward while you shoot?
Local dealer wanted $1,400.00. No chance
I would like to buy one, but the A-holes at my local A-hole sporting goods store, (nameless to protect the A-holes), play a little game of “We’ll take your full payment as a deposit then let you know when we get one”. Then they sit on your cash for 4 months and read a list of excuses every time you call. “Oh, Kel-Tec is really back ordered”, or, “Oh, we’re supposed to get some this week. Check back on Friday”, or, “Oh, Kel-Tec is having some quality issues and aren’t shipping for a couple of weeks”. I’d but one off GB or GA or AA except, as another guy posted, those gun auction A-holes are gouging the prices like the A-holes who sold water, ice or food after Katrina. Wait till SHTF and they come to me for something.
Great article! I’ve had my KSG for about a month now and have fired approximately 250 rounds through it. Initially, I had a few “feeding” issues that seemed to be related to “break in”. I installed a Trijicon RM04, 7.0 MOA Dual Illuminated Dot sight and felt it was sitting a bit low. I purchased a 7 slot, quick disconnect, picatinny rail riser to get it sitting higher on the rail and that took care of the visibility problem. It feeds well and is a pleasure to shoot. Now if I could just get my hands on the new RFB .308 bullpup rifle I’d be set.
I want one of these pretty bad but will wait until supply catches up with demand and I can get one for MSRP or there abouts. I have no problem with sellors charging whatever the market will bear and neither should any one else IMO. Remember that the words, “price gouging” represents the central planning Socialists contempt for the free market. I for one don’t want the Socialists setting price controls on my guns.
Very good article on this gun the only flaw is the topic. The gun looks sweet, very gamer looking shot gun but….. its a Keltec which if anyone has owned one, they know they are mainly a novelty guns. the performance is just not there and they just don’t hold up. not sold on it. but defiantly thanks for the article i really enjoyed reading it.
I have owned a P-11 for over 20 years and shot several thousand rounds through it. Carried it concealed for 10+ years in AZ. The only time I had a problem with it was when a local gun shop owner played with it. He managed to break the recoil guide rod. I called the factory on a Monday and had a new rod with spring, in New Mexico, on Thursday. Factory folks were very pleasant and helpful. Have carried a P-32 with CTC laser in a pocket holster, every Sunday, for last three years. Have fired it several hundred times. It goes bang with every trigger pull. Now purchased a KSG and find it to be well made and very reliable. Compared to the South African and European versions, this is made very well and the price point is just right. I look forward to many years of use with this firearm. By-the-way, only paid $785.00. Soooo, ethical sellers/dealers are not taking advantage of their customers. Be patient and production will catch up with demand and the honest sellers will prevail, while the “schiesters” will be visited by their own KARMA.
The availability, when can we expect to pick one up? What are the costs? With this administration trying to make them illegal makes getting one a priority, ergo the querry.
You missed a target or two by following the craze of PD rounds. Let’s put your children in the bedroom across the hall and shoot from your bedroom with the buck loads. I didn’t think you’d agree because shooting heavy shot (#4 buck-000 buck) leads to pass through and then some. Why didn’t you test it with field/game loads of #6 shot and a heavier load of #4s? Only an un-educated or inexperienced idiot would load and profess to wield a shotgun in the average home with buck shot rounds. They’d be good for outside the home if the area beyond the bad guy was clear without down range risks
There’s a lot of market hype intended to make folks plunk down excessive amount for Personal/Critical defense munitions, but that’s free enterprise and good marketing. It doesn’t mean loose or abandon common sense and risk injury or death to family members and or bystanders.
I witnessed my father kill a fawn at 73 paces from a A-5 Belgium-mfg’d, full choke Browning with a Winchester Upland 1 & 1/8 oz game load. The little fella went down as if he’d been shot with an explosive 30 cal. “Berger VLD”. The fawn was moving almost directly away. We did not locate a single wound to the skull but there were 4 entry wounds in the thoracic region we discovered. My old man was a NMG&F officer trying to “educate” deer in a rancher’s hay fields in the foothills of the Sacramento Mtns in under a depredation complaint. They’d grown immune to the propane cannon he’d placed a couple weeks earlier that boomed every 20minutes of so to scare the deer from the fields. We “burned” several deer that night and managed to harvest two victims with these “bird shot loads”. The other was a mature (and gravid) muley doe that I “peppered” with a modified choke on Daiwa’s Mdl A500 Browning copy at 55yds. I field dressed both of them. Two needy families back in town reaped the benefits from the cheap ($5 and $10 respectively) meat from these animals the next morning with the proceeds going back to the Game Dept.
I bet The KSG with its cylinder-bore will produce dramatic results at the up close and personal distances at which you paced it at with the buck loads on a B27 target. I believe you’ll find it holds a tight enough of a pattern to effectively STOP an invader within a 99%+ of American homes. That is what the law mandates…”Stop the threat”, not turn it into ??? with 15 rounds of devastation. In a SHTF scenario, I appreciate the round count, but unless you’re hell bent on killing all the zombies without a reload, this Kel-Tec goes beyond boundaries and falls into the realm of “I got to get me one of those” that may as well be a Safe Queen. We know it’s going to collect many cobwebs and must dust setting there waiting for deployment.
Otherwise, your article is a well-written piece with great details and photos to substantiate your efforts. Why don’t you try range testing it again, but this time with lighter/smaller shot loads. This will tell the story of its feasibility as a true Home Defense choice when you present and tell the practical story in the application of this futuristic-looking, modern tool.
OH…and BTW, send me one! I, like most others, I would like to show this one off! Now head back to the range. There are probably several other ‘grounded’ gun nuts that would like to see your newest, fire-tested results with the KSG using common shot loads.
Spoon
Rural MO
I agree with Spoon on the choice of shotgun ammo. I have argued with many people on this subject and most just can’t understand why i would not use heavy loads in MY house. I have alot of antiques and collectables as well as a wife and two children that i would like to not shoot up with my shotgun should an intruder dare to break into my home. I keep two shotguns ready to go in my home with pressure switch strobe flashlights (hidden up high and out of reach of the children) I also have have handguns with laser sights hidden and/or in lock boxes which i actually prefer for home defense. Pressure switches turn the flashlight and laser on/off when needed, and i feel that with the laser and strobe on my flashlights i have a better chance of disabling the intruder while making it more difficult for the intruder to disarm me or for me to shoot something i did not intend to shoot.
Don’t get me wrong, i really want one of these KelTec KSG shotguns but i would not use it for home defense it is much better suited for CAN hunting. I will own one eventually, but i refuse to pay close to double the msrp. I like the $780 price range better ;~)
Happy Shooting………get the wife involved, it helps justifying spending so much money on shooting supplies and new guns. lmao it worked for me shhhh
The best compromise I could dream up for inside the home is a .410 with 000 buck. Got enough steam to give a bad guy a bad night, but not enough to pass through two sets of walls and give the neighbors a bad night, too.
(Spoon)
I think you need to spend some time on the box o’ truth website before you give such horrible advice on defensive shotgun loads. I am pretty sure I could kill a buck/bad guy with a .22 lr, but that doesn’t mean it is ideal for that purpose. The reason people use buckshot is because they are looking to stop the bad guy 99+% of the time with the first shot, not keep peppering him until he goes down.
The fact of the matter is that any projectile-firing weapon that is going to be effective against a bad guy will go through that wall where your kids are, so unless you are willing to go to impact or bladed weapons to take on an intruder who potentially is armed with a gun himself you will always run the risk of sending rounds through a wall. And if that intruder does have a gun, you need him stopped sooner rather than later because he isn’t going to be terribly concerned about your kids when he starts setting rounds loose.
(Administrator)
The KSG is a fascinating gun, but you make it sound like it is difficult to switch between the tubes on the fly. Is there something about the selector that makes it problematic to go between tubes? You mention it takes a firm push … is it easy to find and actuate with the weapon shouldered or is it small enough that it would be hard to find under pressure in a gunfight or IDPA competition without changing your cheek weld and/or strong hand grip?
I keep the switch to the left, so it’s easy to just push over to the right (I’m right-handed). You can still keep the KSG and eyes on your target, as well as your firing hand on the pistol grip. For the ammo discussion, Just like hunting, you always get PID and clear the back-side before shooting. Plus, you can shot a perpetrator trying to kick in your door or standing behind a wall or furniture that he thinks will protect him. I’ll get more antiques after the body parts are cleaned up. Always prep for a home invasion. Waiting until it happens is too late, even if your armed. PID-positive identification for those of you non-military or law enforcement.
Bird/trap loads hit like a slug at really short ranges, my entry way is 12 feet at that range it doesn’t really matter what 2 3/4″ shell you have the impact on target will be nearly the same, even non lethal rounds will kill at those ranges.
one law I really dislike is in some areas the property/home owner is liable for ALL injuries that occur on/in their property/home, It has allowed home invaders to sue and get money from home/property owners
Move down South. Look up “Castle Domain,” law.
So … don’t injure them.
Your “story” about your father and the fawn makes no sense what so ever, the flaws are multiple, for example his use of an unlawful load for duy bound use, your presense while on duty and the terminology you used. Further your commentary reeks of the armchair warrior, that you are coming off as. So it would be best for you to stick to LOD or whatever game your type plays these days.
For the forearm bruising, would a wrist guard from archery be advised?
Sure that’d work.
Is the receiver made of aluminum? I bet it is. Soft aluminum junk. You can keep it. I want STEEL.
Why? You want to your great grand kids to inherit it? It delivers a bashing, doesn’t matter.
Its steel, check kel-tec website if you want specs, this is an informative discussion not a talk sh*t about something I know nothing about
Thanks
Kel-Tec DOES NOT make crappy weapons, YO!Everything I have seen made by them is top notch and made with precision of the finest materials!In fact the ATF is such a persnickety stickler these days they are NOT going to allow anyone to “manufacture and sell” crappy weapons in this country, importers can be a different story though!Taking to the time to inform yourself though, would have educated you to these tidbits of enlightening information!I invite you to go to Kel-Tec’s website and look at their operation, you’ll soon be a Kel-Tec believer;-) http://www.keltecweapons.com/
Made in Florida! Never have had a problem with the KSG 12.
I have one and it is steel. The aluminum part that I could locate is the upper rail. I have shared the use of it with several friends and others at the local range. Most decide that they have a case of “I gotta get me one of those suckers” when they are finished. It is quite the conversation starter. Just as an update, Kel-Tec has raised their MSRP and wholesale price recently, so $880.00 is history. I think the increase is appx. $300.00. The rational is that the factory is trying to recoup their R & D costs before the gun is branded “EVIL” by Fed. and State governments. The local gun shop sold one for $1600.00+tax last month. It was on the shelf for 20 minutes. I got mine through the local military BX for $875.00 and then got a rebate of $87.50 because they had a %10 off on all shotguns sale that Friday. It sucks to be me, NOT. I’ve offeredit for sale at several local gun shows recently, but mostly fols just want to hold one, so they can say they did! I even took a brick along once so the buyer could say he was not conscious when he bought it. Sometimes that wors with the spouse, and sometimes she gives you another bruise to match. All-in-All, I like it and it goes bang every time you slap the trigger. I hope that everybody that wants one can get it, someday.
Bill Butler,
The “government regulation” angle is to satisfy people who think like some of the folks in this forum and use words like “gouge”, “take advantage”, “greed”, etc. I think the real reason is KelTec realized they had substantially under-priced their gun and want to capture the value of their ingenuity and hard work. I support them 100% in that decision.
Congrats on your purchase, I am envious. If you bought it at the BX, you EARNED a good deal by your service. In fact, the DoD should have bought it for you as a “Thank You” 🙂 My father was a propeller mechanic until ’57 and my ex’s father was a retired bird Colonel in the USAF.
I’m still trying to get a Sub-2000 (9mm) at a decent price!
My gun store has one in case and is motivated to sell.Give me a phone # or emai; and I’ll have him contact you.
I would like to buy one, new.
Marshall
214.682.5194
I saw this thread and though it was not meant for me i would like an opportunity to buy one from a motivated seller. I am currently overseas and have not seen one below what most people feel as “market price” . I am sorry, the gun is unique but i cannot spend the money necessary to buy one on the online auctions. If push comes to shove right now i have a Mossy 590-A1 under the bed. I’ll just fix the daggon bayonet after i unload it i guess. Thanks for your time.
Would’t you just square up your shoulders and still lean into the weapon to avoid the ejecting shells and still control recoil/follow ups?
Well you could let go of the handgrip lol. That would avoid the spent shells, but other than you have to deal with it.
I agree with the comment about squaring up a bit instead of the radical bladed stance, whether or not it avoids the ejected shells. Thanks for the good write up, probably my next purchase.
I would like one but cant find one in the philly area,but thanks for the range report
As a dealer, I see no problem selling a new gun at “market price”. We are lucky to get a 15-20% gross margin on most guns and I appreciate the opportunity grow my profit margin. If you have a beef with that, get after the manufacturers as they ultimately control the market. If the guns were available, we’d be fighting to make a dolar like usual. When customers ask why we don’t have them, the next questions is “can you order one for me?”. What can I say to that?
“Absolutely. How many would you like?”
After waiting a year I finally picked mine up a couple of weeks ago. In short I love it big time! In regards to the price markup, I mentioned to my dealer that he just accepted the MRSP but the a-holes on the gun auctions were snagging up to 1500 bucks per.
He just grinned and said maybe he should raise his price a little.
I paid less than 780.
Where did you buy yours?
Sorry about the delay in responding. My gun shop of preference is ‘The Country Store’, located about 12 miles south of Warrensburg, Missouri.
Awesome article: I have been in the market for a good high load magazine for home defense and this KSGs shotgun seems to fit the bill for me. When do you think this gun will come down in price and will it be available to all gun dealers.sellers at that time? (whenever that is?) Is this gun legal in Pa.
Pretty much everything is legal in PA, for now.
While agree that the market will bear what the market will bear; the market is distorted because of the distributors mark up. While they have the right to do that, how is that fair?
Distributor margin is generally 5-8%.
That is probably true as a median, but on specific must-have buys I wouldn’t doubt it is much higher. I am all for anyone to make a buck, but if it is just for a select few, then it’s not a true market…Either way, I want one but have seen some Internet reviews whining about the machining not being of the highest quality. Have you heard the same?
Also, is there a review from GA on the UTAS-15? Thanks!
Fair? It’s a textbook example of free-market capitalism, the MOST fair economic system ever developed.
Personally, I think the gun was significantly under-priced at $800 and the market proved me right.
Really now? 5-8% my butt, most places are gouging which is fine. I had the opportunity to fire one and I differ from your opinion, THEY SUCK! Kel-Tec should rename the model “jam-o-matic”, I wouldn’t even recommend it to an “Arm chair XBox zombie Hunter”. Classification-JUNK!
You probably shot some idiot’s who took it apart and tried to put it back together again. There is no history of failure with the guns that are now three years old.
Well I have to agree with the guy who complained about the jamming. About 1 out of every 4 shots would jam by the ejecting casing hanging up underneath the ejection rails as it ejected out the bottom. Also the tube switch was inconsistent in its pressure against the tube which made it difficult to switch tubes. The nylon white tube switches have a tendency to break under rapid fire action.
Loading the tubes is somewhat awkward as the action space is limited to bigger hands when reloading. Reloading on the fly – forget it. The gun becomes a detriment to any law enforcement’s life if the law officer has to reload for any reason.
BTW…the two of the KSG’s we had with us experienced the same identical issues from the start. That was the only consistency the gun had….problems. Both of us were original owners. We followed all direction provided by the included user manual.
My expections going into the testing was that the shotgun would probably score no lower than an 8 out 10. We both ended up overall rating the gun a 3. Great design idea but terrible design execution uncharacteristic of Kel-Tec firearms.
My advise – go with a UTS-15 instead. It has a greater robust construction that lends itself to strengthening the firearm to withstand the shock of the blast better, which we believe contributes greatly to the problems we experienced and what other report about the KSG.
It’s fair because it’s THEIR PROPERTY and they can charge whatever they like for it. Just like no one is allowed to force you to sell something that you own for what they think is “fair”. It’s called freedom. You need to recognize that you don’t have a right to other people’s stuff at whatever price you think is right.
Thank you Alan. Yours is the most important post here.
Kurt, I am a shooter that just happens to have a Ph.D in Economics. Your comment hits the “nail on the head”. Point on, thanks!
You are right, freedom is important and individuals have the freedom to take advantage of people. I also have the freedom to take my business elsewhere and I am already marking names on a “not to buy from list”.
Give it a rest, Sword. It is not taking advantage, it is called free market economics. Alan is 100% right. If I want it more than you, then I am willing to pay more than you for it. You should not begrudge the seller for making money.. they are a business, not a charity. They have to put food on the table, send their kids to college, etc.. You can’t get one because there is more demand than supply. As supply increases, it will balance out. Relax.
This is far from the norm in a free market. First, the creator of these products usually sets the retail price. Not the dealer, the distributor, or the person that buys it just to flip it. I am all for people making money, but people are hoarding these items to just turn around a make a profit. For example, go look at primers on gunbrokers.com. The retail chains are selling out of primers not because of the market, but because dealers and individuals want to take advantage of fear and they have no morals. There is a big difference between free market and right out greed.
Sort of like how event tickets are gobbled up by the Ticketmasters and other “resellers” and then marked up in addition to the BS processing/handling fees that are something like >20% of the value of the tickets?
Once upon a time you could camp out and be the first to buy tickets to a concert when they “went on sale”. Now, they are sold out the minute they go on sale because the Stub Hubs and Ticketmasters get them first.
Sort of the same, except I don’t know that the KelTecs and Colts ever sold directly to the buyers without going through an “authorized” dealer.
I don’t necessarily degrudge the dealers, only because of what was said before: nobody is making you buy the gun. You don’t need it to survive, so nobody is going to fight for your right to have it at what you think is an “affordable” price.
I went to a gun show… saw one for $1895 and was ready to buy it. Decided to walk the rest of the show first and by dumb luck I found another guy selling one for $1,350. He got my money. But guess what… when I went to the other guy, his was sold as well. So if you don’t pay the inflated price, somebody else with the disposable income will.
Wait until all these people buying them at >$2,000 try re-selling them and then you’ll have your day when you can talk them down because they’re desperate to unload their KSG to buy the next coolest thing on the market.
Ryan’s Dad – Ticketmaster is the original seller, so the don’t “gobble” them up. The bands and venues contract with them to sell their tickets. StubHub is a scalper site. You and I could camp out and get good tickets in the old days because there were no computers selling tickets. Today, organized crime in the US and Eastern Europe, build huge computers systems to buy the tickets online first, then scalp them to you. Companies like Ticketmaster spend tens of millions of dollars to fight them and the criminals spend enough to beat them. BS processing handling fees? It’s worth $ 20 a ticket, to me, to be able to buy them online and have them emailed to my phone or print them on my laser printer, instead of camping out for a couple of days. Want to beat scalpers? Have bands price their tickets for what they are actually worth, just like KelTec should have done. It frustrates me when I have to pay a premium for good tickets, too.
Have you ever noticed you can buy all the $ 1500 1911’s your finances can handle? That’s because they are priced appropriately for demand. If a Kimber Master Carry Custom (one of my dream guns) were $700, they would be in the same situation as the KSG’s were, but they are $ 1568, so they don’t get marked way up on the secondary market. For another example, imagine a new Corvette ZR1 priced at $30,000, instead of $115,000.
Noah – fear is a component of the free market, mainly because “fear” comes from anticipated scarcity, whether through regulatory reduction of supply, lack of raw materials, government policy, etc. When you use words like “morals” and “greed” you tip your hand that you don’t really understand free-market economics.
We all have that freedom and always have had … no sense getting all huffy about it.
I will wait for kel tec to ramp up production and the price to go down. High prices is why I dont own a S&W Colt Glock. They are overpriced and the fools keep buying them. Most all of my weapons are Rugers.
This is one of the most awsome home defence wepons that’s hit the market in a long time. Who do I talk to about getting one of these and and is it still legal in Virginia ?
Really liked the artical. Lots of info and the photos are great. Job well done.
Thanks William. It is legal in VA I think. Because it is a pump gun it will fall under the laws of most states.
It is indeed legal in Virginia; there was one for sale at Stonewall Arms up in Winchester a few weeks ago. I imagine the thing’s gone by now, though, but your local VA dealer should be able to get you one.
Yeah, they don’t have it anymore…they’re a great dealer though.
Still legal in VA, but getting one as of APR 2013 is still most difficult. Your best bet is an online site, but be warned you will pay double or more for one.
Not sure how I was lucky enough to get one , I have not shot it yet , I really enjoyed the article , thanks
Hi my name is Mike could you tell me what you had to pay for the gun I sure would appreciate it Thanks
Have A Great Evening
Mike
}> 2 CHRONICLES 7:14 <{
they sent it to us
nice for you. Could you compare with the Saiga or with the hi-cap home defense Browning? Which is better? Thank you.
A pump gun is a different thing than a semi auto.
Ricky,
The Saiga can use drums or magazines, so you can get a high-capacity capability. Reliability is good too. The problem is it’s a long gun compared to the KSG 12. A trained shooter can shoot almost as fast as a semi-auto but generally more accurate because the split-second to adjust for the recoil. Outdoors the Saiga would be fine. In quarters or CQB, the KSG is the way to go. It’s compact, easy to mount accessories, and you can load slugs with buckshot. One to blow away hinges and door knobs and the other for what’s inside. I have no experience with the Browning but I’m sure my comments are similar. If you want home defense-go with the KSG. If you want to spend a lot of money on rounds and blow the crap out of large targets, outside-then go with the Saiga.
Now that the guns are more available the price has dropped but there are still some over-priced. Originally, Kel-Tec was pricing this gun at an MSRP of just over $900! Today, I would not pay more than $1,000 for one. They Magpul sights do not come from Kel-Tec so if they do it is a plus. This is a great gun for home defense! The kick is not bad at all and can be handled easily by a small person. It is reliable, consistant, great for close-quarter and light. The only negative is that the round ejects out of the bottom and hits your trigger arm. This can get annoying at the range but is no big deal. If you ever have to use it at home…you will not notice it.
The Aguila Short Shells seem to be the perfect home defense round it would seem. Your 10 yard distance is to close in my studies. In the mid-west, the average open distance (wall to wall) in a median single family dwelling was (1989 data is all I could find) 23.7′ feet. So even if a people were standing with their backs against the walls, and only fought in the biggest room in the house, your distance would be long. I think a good average distance would be five yards. I think at this distance you would see every pellet in the black!
Well, here it is two years later, and these guns are still impossible to find at MSRP. In fact, the only place I know to get one is the rip-off “auction” sites where people are asking two to three times MSRP. No thanks.
I had a PMR-30, Sub-2000, and one of these on my list of next purchases, but finally realized that they will never happen. Kel Tec is determined to expand manufacturing capacity only when cash is available. Rather than seizing the moment, Kel Tec apparently thinks people will either pay ridiculous prices, or wait years for their products.
I will do neither. So now my wish list is short the three guns mentioned above. Besides, there are already copy-cats coming to market. On another note, there are also a lot of independent gun tests appearing on You Tube, many are critical of Kel Tec products, calling them cheaply made and easily breakable. I’ve never owned one so I can’t say one way or the other.
I have all three of the weapons on your wish list I really like the KSG and I also have the sub 2000 9mm that will take the same magazine as my Glock 17 the little PMR 30 is great even with the one draw back of large flash it still is a sweet weapon the only real draw back that I have with the PMR 30 is being able to get 22 magnum ammo.